Torque Knock PID - may have some progress...

[FoMoCoSHO]

So has anybody set up timing advance next to the knock gauge?

Cause I can clearly see timing being removed when the knock gauge moves into the negative and added back as it moves back to zero.

Have we had it backwards the whole time or am I missing something?

Yes, I am also seeing my timing adv. go from a 45-50 at no throttle to mid 30's - mid 20 ' s under light throttle and a drop to around 10 at wot.

This is normal behavior and how timing works in general.  You will definitely get a ton of timing advance under light throttle and less under WOT (although 10 seems low...I would expect you'd see between 17-20 degrees at WOT - how much boost are you running?) 

If you are going to measure timing advance due to knock you need to hold the throttle steady and be on a steady "grade" etc...the goal is not have any engine load variations so the timing number settles to something "desired"...then watch the knock gauge - when it starts to do its -0.25, -0.5, -1,... thing watch your timing advance gauge (again without moving the throttle!) and you should see timing increase.  It does on my car every time.  If the throttle position changes or the grade changes etc...what you are seeing is being caused by other variables.

My cars behavior is the exact opposite. Any kind of acceleration with cruise on 72 causes negative knock and timing retard. As the number climbs back to zero, timing is added every time. If I add accel, the negative number decreases and timing Is pulled even more.

So for these specific driving conditions, are you guys seeing the same thing?

[ecoboostsho]

Weird. Although If you or the cruise control adds pedal the timing will go down. It is supposed to...it has nothing to do with the knock gauge it is just moving to a different part of the timing table. If you are saying you are keeping the throttle steady with very little rpm change and as the kr gauge decrements then it is subtracting timing then that is indeed opposite and I have no idea why it is different.

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[Larrylu]

Weird. Although If you or the cruise control adds pedal the timing will go down. It is supposed to...it has nothing to do with the knock gauge it is just moving to a different part of the timing table. If you are saying you are keeping the throttle steady with very little rpm change and as the kr gauge decrements then it is subtracting timing then that is indeed opposite and I have no idea why it is different.

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Mine pretty much reads like yours

[FoMoCoSHO]

Weird. Although If you or the cruise control adds pedal the timing will go down. It is supposed to...it has nothing to do with the knock gauge it is just moving to a different part of the timing table. If you are saying you are keeping the throttle steady with very little rpm change and as the kr gauge decrements then it is subtracting timing then that is indeed opposite and I have no idea why it is different.

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The question is....is it pulling less timing than it would otherwise

It's the not knowing that makes me nervous. High gear plus boost was deadly for a bunch of Mazda 2.3 turbos hence my concern.

[SHOdded]

What ethanol blend % are you running now, FoMoCo?  Have you tried going back to E10/pump gas no blend?  Maybe a fuel system drier, as water may have built up over time.

[FoMoCoSHO]

What ethanol blend % are you running now, FoMoCo?  Have you tried going back to E10/pump gas no blend?  Maybe a fuel system drier, as water may have built up over time.

Since I was tuned last week, Down to 25%

I feel like if that was the issue, I'd see issues elsewhere also.

I sent Torrie a datalog of my normal drive to work, I will ask him to peek at what he sees on the SCT device.....that might help me figure out what is going on. Its just weird that it behaves pretty Much the same tuned or unturned.

[SHOnUup]

So at 70 mph cruising speed with light throttle to get a -kr I was also seeing timing adv added...think this gauge will be replaced now

[ecoboostsho]

So at 70 mph cruising speed with light throttle to get a -kr I was also seeing timing adv added...think this gauge will be replaced now

That is what Larry and I see as well...can't figure out what is going on with the other guys...

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[ShoBoat]

Anyone else notice more knock events since the updated equation? Before the update I would get .5 once in a while. Now I get .8 to 1.5 on light throttle at least once or 2x per drive? I think I'm going to double check against FORScan.

[ecoboostsho]

Only when mine is heatsoaked...the new intake mod actually helped me.

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[ShoBoat]

Only when mine is heatsoaked...the new intake mod actually helped me.

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Nice I'm glad that it did, I am starting to it maybe beneficial to go one step cooler on the plugs. It really doesn't seem to have any logical pattern. I will glance over at the readout and there it is. I try to duplicate it and can't? It's really weird. It's really cool here today also.

[SHOnUup]

Anyone else notice more knock events since the updated equation? Before the update I would get .5 once in a while. Now I get .8 to 1.5 on light throttle at least once or 2x per drive? I think I'm going to double check against FORScan.

Yes. Well not anymore events, but a slightly higher reading in the normal kr situations. Also seems to respond faster, or its just reading smaller increments which makes it seem faster.

[Larrylu]

I haven't noticed any difference with the new equation so far at least. I am still running the stock tune right now due to trying to get the dealer to swap sensors in my tranny. My KR   readings stock are -4 and +1

[ecoboostsho]

I should clarify one thing. The new equation accounts for a 1/4 of a degree. If you had a .75 before the old equation would have shown that as .5. Also .75 rounds to .8 so I could see you thinking it was higher visually. Or said differently, If you think its higher it was because you were getting .75 but it was only displaying the .5 as it didn't add the quarter degree.

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[SHOnUup]

Makes sense, .5 is the difference I'm seeing.