Ecoboost Performance Forum

well got cut short today due to a couple issues i noticed after my first 2 passes. had a split front turbo connector hose and i'm getting oil in the TB and intake. decided to play it safe even though the car was running well and felt strong.
anyhow just barely squeaked out a best ET on the first pass
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180422/9307f6dd61fe93e0bf0a7c1064bfdfd5.jpg)



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after a couple track passes today I noticed oil gathering below the throttle body inlet. map sensor was coated with oil pretty good and had some oil accumulation in the intercooler.
(phone won't let me upload pics, will update later)
i made several wot runs previous to the track visit and none of these issues were present.
checked the oil separator( which is only a couple months old) and there was no milky residue.
also blew/sucked through all the catch can lines and they were only moving one way which tells me the check valves are working properly as far as I can tell at the moment.
any ideas what else would cause oil to be getting into the intake like this?
. . this is after i wiped off the valve cover some. oil accumulation isnt crazy but more than normal
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180422/c35c3add0cde9c9d79451d90f22e7673.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180422/a5a585253b7dfac1f3fc636e54d9fe6f.jpg)

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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on April 22, 2018, 04:39:02 PM
after a couple track passes today I noticed oil gathering below the throttle body inlet. map sensor was coated with oil pretty good and had some oil accumulation in the intercooler.
(phone won't let me upload pics, will update later)
i made several wot runs previous to the track visit and none of these issues were present.
checked the oil separator( which is only a couple months old) and there was no milky residue.
also blew/sucked through all the catch can lines and they were only moving one way which tells me the check valves are working properly as far as I can tell at the moment.
any ideas what else would cause oil to be getting into the intake like this?


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From previous threads and research, this generally happens when one of the turbos is failing iirc.... everything I have read seems to indicate that. Guys with excessive blow by tend to discover the turbos are leaking internally.


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Did you datalog the passes? If you are getting excessive oil in the intake I would imagine you might see some KR... but your spraying meth too right? Might offset it...

I would check the turbos for shaft play...

How long have you had the catch can on your car?


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Quote from: BJSHO on April 22, 2018, 04:51:21 PM
Did you datalog the passes? If you are getting excessive oil in the intake I would imagine you might see some KR... but your spraying meth too right? Might offset it...

I would check the turbos for shaft play...

How long have you had the catch can on your car?


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i'll have datalogs when i get home tonight. no meth just E30. got knock in 3rd and 4th but all less than 1*. car still felt strong and put up the same times it did last year.

that being said turbos are suspect.
the front turbo to cac pipe is slightly split also i noticed, don't think that would cause the oil issue though
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180422/ea6bc6390bb504533e69f3bcd97ff352.jpg)


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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on April 22, 2018, 05:13:04 PM

Quote from: BJSHO on April 22, 2018, 04:51:21 PM
Did you datalog the passes? If you are getting excessive oil in the intake I would imagine you might see some KR... but your spraying meth too right? Might offset it...

I would check the turbos for shaft play...

How long have you had the catch can on your car?


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i'll have datalogs when i get home tonight. no meth just E30. got knock in 3rd and 4th but all less than 1*. car still felt strong and put up the same times it did last year.

that being said turbos are suspect.
the front turbo to cac pipe is slightly split also i noticed, don't think that would cause the oil issue though
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180422/ea6bc6390bb504533e69f3bcd97ff352.jpg)


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Well the split pipe wouldn't help! I would check your wastegate duty cycle on the logs... if it's really high due to the boost leak from that pipe, it could have exacerbated the oil issue from the turbos. Basically due to the boost leak the turbos could have been working harder (spinning faster) to hit the target boost...

Hopefully it's something more simple like a faulty catch can...


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And I'm not gonna mention your 2 second reaction time.....


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Quote from: BJSHO on April 22, 2018, 05:17:56 PM
And I'm not gonna mention your 2 second reaction time.....


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haha don't care about rt unless i have a grudge against the guy in the other lane. gotta keep in mind i have to build up to 2400rpm to build boost at a track with 5800da


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updated the op with a couple pics.


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Codes please!  Check the air filter box for any evidence of oil pooling.
I think you might need a new rear valve cover IMO!
It also seems your a couple quarts low on oil based on the oil dipstick!  Z

Quote from: ZSHO on April 22, 2018, 05:57:18 PM
Codes please!  Check the air filter box for any evidence of oil pooling.
I think you might need a new rear valve cover IMO!
It also seems your a couple quarts low on oil based on the oil dipstick!  Z

the pic is of the front valve cover. and the oil on the dipstick is from the cac. i just used the dipstick to see how much had pooled inside the intercooler. actual crankcase oil level is just below the top hash mark and hasn't hardly dropped since the onset of the issue


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How's the coolant level ?  Z

Quote from: ZSHO on April 22, 2018, 08:02:56 PM
How's the coolant level ?  Z

hasn't moved in months. just above the full line when cold


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Here's a datalog from the 2 passes. Really nothing unusual. I know some will comment on my Wastegate duty cycle. It is normal range for my car. The altitude just runs the turbos hard.

However i did a comparison of one of these passes to one of my passes last year and it does seem my WGDC is 3-5% higher now . . . which doesn't make sense being that i was running stock downpipes last year. The PPE Downpipes should reduce the WGDC a few %. That could be caused by the front turbo charge pipe coupler being split. I'll be fixing that as soon as i can.
does anyone know if you have to replace that entire charge pipe or can you remove the rubber coupler and just replace that?


I'm still scratching my head on where the oil could be coming from though. Guess i'll have a chance to give the front turbo a visual when i replace the charge pipe.

Is there any way to test or check if the turbos are leaking internally?

This Hose! I would say you need to replace the entire charge pipe as its a complete unit,assembly IMO.
I would remove the WG MOD and proceed from there! sorry for the late reply.

@ CSB any broader PIC'S of the Front valve cover ?  Z

(https://i.imgur.com/dj9a3wph.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/C7HZn36h.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZnAObgyh.jpg?3)

Yeah Z that's the one. It's the plastic collar behind the rubber coupler that's split. I'm not sure if it's leaking or not but either way needs replaced. I thought i saw another post from someone that just took off the OEM collar and coupler(maybe cut it?) and replaced with an aftermarket rubber coupler. I'll have to poke around for the thread.
If not looks like i'll be ordering the "upgraded" Explorer/ interceptor charge pipe.

Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on April 23, 2018, 09:11:40 AM
Yeah Z that's the one. It's the plastic collar behind the rubber coupler that's split. I'm not sure if it's leaking or not but either way needs replaced. I thought i saw another post from someone that just took off the OEM collar and coupler(maybe cut it?) and replaced with an aftermarket rubber coupler. I'll have to poke around for the thread.
If not looks like i'll be ordering the "upgraded" Explorer/ interceptor charge pipe.

The charge pipe hose by the rear turbo can be replaced,modified IIRC. Z
There unfortunately is not sufficient room to modify the lower hose IMO.  Z

Ok so had some time to look at things a little closer today to try and diagnose where this oil is coming from and also look at the split turbo hose.
here's a closer pic of the split. the rubber coupler still clamps firmly onto the turbo outlet so it MIGHT not be causing the leak but of course it will be replaced.
(yes i ghetto rigged a wire tie there for now lol)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/3f9bb631bd2ae51dd23c628fff71f57f.jpg)
does anyone know if you can buy just the front piece of the saxophone hose like this?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/211792dbba296966d574daa90a32140f.jpg)

as far as the oil issue . . i didnt find any smoking guns and the issue seems to have mostly recessed as of late. i'm not getting major pooling by the throttle body after WOT like before. then again i haven't done full 1/4mile pulls like at the track.
there's some oil residue around the turbo inlet and outlet flanges but nothing that's super concerning for your average ecoboost.
I am admittedly not experienced at inspecting turbos but i did check for shaft play. didn't get any side to side and maybe a VERY small amount front to back. almost couldn't  notice it at all.
so nothing that screams out as a problem overall.
i was almost expecting to see oil pooling when i removed the hoses but everything was relatively clean

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180428/5beb976b34cddd7d8a8ad8840156564c.jpg)

if anyone has any input please don't hesitate speaking up.


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This pipe?  BA5Z-6C646-A
https://parts.levittownfordparts.com/auto-parts/2011/ford/taurus/sho-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/fuel-system-cat/intercooler-scat

#12 in diagram.

I guess you can always try to modify the end of the charge pipe and add a 90 deg elbow with the proper spec's.  Z

https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/catalog/category/view/id/14 (https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/catalog/category/view/id/14)

I've thought about modifying the pipe but still being under warranty I would like to keep everything OEM possible.
this is the paper I'm trying to source. But I only need the front half of it after it splits off from the rear turbo
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-connector-tube-eb5z9r530a


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alright still experiencing this issue and i'm ready to get to the bottom of it all. I removed my entire catch can system a couple days ago to isolate the oil problem. Did a few back to back WOT pulls yesterday and this is what i saw immediately afterwards.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180511/bda1580b3befbfaed3ff2e2f262727a3.jpg)
Pulled the rear turbo to CAC pipe this morning and saw this as well
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180511/e6abdf98344c747e40f95ca949e65a34.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180511/eccea1a4bb7b408295bfc542e0c051de.jpg)
I'd say at least the rear turbo is suspect at this point. I would think there would be some oil in the actual outlet of the turbo also not just on the flange but maybe the boost pressure pushed it forward or it drained back down? There's absolutely no oil on the outside of the turbo so the leak is completely internal turbo seal issue.

Is there reliable way to test for bad turbo seals besides just looking at the symptoms?

I'd like to test both turbos before i take it into the dealer so i can push to have them replace both rather than just the one that's obviously leaking oil.

Does the engine still emit smoke!

When and what type of intercooler did you install!  Z

Turbocharger PDF

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14Bw8eQ1WwidPxJu9sJtqp_v75886pM-dLq0I-R3qmDQ/edit?usp=sharing

Turbocharger RH
https://docs.google.com/document/d/134oYkJcNyjhtLRblBSXOb7zwEm67yHBGSGf4MAr7bAE/edit?usp=sharing

Turbocharger LH
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vmvjE_K0I_DSnmq1VAa9CaN3edLSBjEPHivkqyNuyAY/edit?usp=sharing

intercooler is still oem.
car doesn't smoke at idle or normal driving. i haven't made a concerted effort to look in my rear view when i get on the gas but nothing obvious. ill look next time i drive it


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Maybe have someone follow you and be the lookout?

Mount a GoPro if you have one... might help....


Compression check? PCV? Otherwise turbos...  maybe time for ATPs?


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 11, 2018, 10:37:05 PM
Mount a GoPro if you have one... might help....


Compression check? PCV? Otherwise turbos...  maybe time for ATPs?


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go pro fell out of my pocket last snowboard trip
don't have a compression test tool but i do have a borescope being delivered tomorrow so i will pull the plugs and check first chance i get.
and first resort will be getting the turbo(s) replaced under warranty. just hoping they won't fight me because of the downpipes.


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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on May 11, 2018, 10:50:23 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 11, 2018, 10:37:05 PM
Mount a GoPro if you have one... might help....


Compression check? PCV? Otherwise turbos...  maybe time for ATPs?


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go pro fell out of my pocket last snowboard trip
don't have a compression test tool but i do have a borescope being delivered tomorrow so i will pull the plugs and check first chance i get.
and first resort will be getting the turbo(s) replaced under warranty. just hoping they won't fight me because of the downpipes.


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If the dealer is tough, they most certainly will deny the claim due to Downpipes.... i highly suggest swapping those out before going in.

Exhaust modifications are a sure fire way on a turbo car for the dealers to deny warranty.


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well i'm guessing this isn't how healthy pistons should look?
not sure if this is catastrophic damage as the car still drives excellent and runs very smooth.
of course there's no way to tell if the rings are sealing or passing oil until i can do a compression check but this could very well be the source of the oil blow by.
Anybody educated in the piston damage feel free to comment on your thoughts


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHqTYj4sY08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBATVq1lUhA


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Got your email...Piston 5 looks worse but even though the vid is pretty clear I can't tell if my eyes are playing tricks on me and the way the carbon build up looks funny or if there are chunks out of the perimeter of those pistons...I'm thinking chunks are gone but you'd think it would not run as well as it is.

I'd be curious how the compression test turns out.

Don't you have over 100k on it? You'd also think if chunks were gone from the pistons that the valves would be bent or damaged and the turbos would be destroyed

Quote from: AJP turbo on May 15, 2018, 12:16:24 AM
Got your email...Piston 5 looks worse but even though the vid is pretty clear I can't tell if my eyes are playing tricks on me and the way the carbon build up looks funny or if there are chunks out of the perimeter of those pistons...I'm thinking chunks are gone but you'd think it would not run as well as it is.

I'd be curious how the compression test turns out.

Don't you have over 100k on it? You'd also think if chunks were gone from the pistons that the valves would be bent or damaged and the turbos would be destroyed

It certainly looks like the edge of the pistons are chipped to me. Car just hit 50k yesterday. Whatever damage is done it certainly isn't affecting the drivability of the car. Car idles smooth, never ever any misfires, and no loss in economy. A couple weeks ago when i discovered the oil ingestion issue at the track it even turned an excellent ET comparable to what it ran last year.
I'm still getting oil in the TB and intake after WOT pulls but not sure if the pistons are the culprit there. Could be that or the turbos are still in question as well.
I will try to do a compression check later this week. In the meantime i'm eyeballing used SHO's on the market after seeing the state of the pistons.
I've still got 30k miles left on my warranty but i really don't want to hassle with getting the dealer to diagnose the issue, probably just blaming and replacing a turbo or both if i'm lucky and then i'm still stuck with the damaged internals.
If i could find and fix the oil ingestion issue i might consider keeping it.

If i had to guess what caused the damage i think it goes back to when my oil separator failed and the car ingested a ton of oil. I fixed the separator and installed the downpipes a day or so after that.
I did some WOT pulls after the DP install and got a max of 6* kr which is abnormally high(usually 2* max). After these pulls i realized the motor was sucking up oil that had built up in the intercooler during the oil separator failure. I pulled almost a quart of oil out of the intercooler. I'm thinking all that oil in the cylinders caused a low octane condition, and the detonation occurred causing the damage.

Any thoughts are welcome guys

Not even sure there IS any damage, unless you experienced severe knock/detonation events that you can recall.  Shapes and shadows of carbon deposits can be a misleading diagnostic.  There was no visible wall scuffing, so rings look good.  A compression test at this point may not yield anything since no noticeable performance deficit has occurred.

At this point, try the standby tests:  revert to a stock tune and compare results.  Or take off the wastegate mod and compare results.  Make one change at a time so you can pinpoint the most likely culprit.  If you are VTA, check the diaphragm seal(s), revert to stock.

I'm going to have to agree with shodded, pistons look fine. It's a little ugly around the edges, but if there were chunks missing it would be entirely different in appearance. Not to mention wall scoring at the very least. As for the oil, my stab in the dark is your rear turbo. They seem to be dropping like flies, just replaced mine at 50k. Here's a snap of detonation failure, even with the carbon ring around your edges you would be able to tell the depth differences.

Also, I know you said you haven't seen any excessive smoke. When my rear turbo started pushing oil I noticed a pretty good haze out the exhaust when laying in to it, kinda like a good running performance diesel would. It was really hard to see from the drivers seat, but very noticeable at night with headlights behind. There was also a fine layer of soot on the back of the car that I had to clay off, you may not notice that from the color of your car. The intake hose blew off at the throttle body one day, scared the bejeezus out of the wife, and shot oil all over the beauty cover and such. Never noticed any difference in performance, was just cleaning the MAP every dang week.

Thanks for the replies guys. Glad to hear you don't see anything too alarming. Perhaps i could be overreacting. The part that stand out to me as far as looking damaged occurs by the dimples in the piston. Compare the 2 following pics:
This one you can see the creased edge on the dimple of the piston. The cast looks complete
(https://i.imgur.com/yBStpNS.jpg?1)

On this one that crease or edge of the dimple looks like it's missing
(https://i.imgur.com/2DiQODn.jpg?1)
That to me looks like "damage" but i could very well be wrong. And in fact i really HOPE that i'm wrong. I know it is tough to get an accurate depiction with camera angles,shadows etc.
However, these videos did turn out pretty clear.

At this point i'm pretty much doing as SHOdded said and changing one thing at a time to isolate the issue. Catch can has been removed, I returned the one VTA BOV back to stock yesterday and will probably load the stock tune sometime soon. However, i don't see that having much of an effect other than lower boost pressures so maybe i'll get less oil ingestion.

Once i return to stock i'll be taking it to the dealer to have them assess the issue. I just have to decide if i'm going to go through the hassle of switching out my downpipes before i do that.

It is perplexing indeed, hope it is not an internal engine issue!