Ecoboost Performance Forum

I'm at 131K miles most of it tuned with LMS stage 3 tune and K&N, plugs and 3 bar. I drive it with a purpose but not hard core. Car has always run good and still kinda does. It has has a tick since about 70K miles and more recently it has gotten loud enough that it now sounds like a knocking rod and a few mechanics agree. Ive posted videos on here not long ago and that seems to be the consensus. So I'm not sure what my best options are here. Tousley Ford will sell me a longblock with oil pan and timing chain cover and valve covers for $3,600. The core is required and I think that is included in the $3,600. It still runs but it sounds like it could go any time now. Oddly it still has some rpm range where it pulls strong however it's using quite a bit of oil but I'm not seeing any leaks or smoke generally, but I did see a good size puff at start up recently. I want to get this fixed before I do anything..... I have it flashed to stock and no performance parts except my air filter. When I step on the throttle is feels like it bogs and the more I let off the throttle the better / faster it accelerates but it's not really feeling boosted except in 3rd gear (and higher gears) going into +4k rpms. It runs strong on the highway still but sluggish at low speeds. Wondering what that could mean for my turbos and questioning the oil consumption maybe 2 quarts per tank of gas or a little less. I ran Lucas fuel system cleaner, and cleaned my intake sensors thinking blow by had coated everything in the upper intake with oil blow by. Also cleaned the K&N. I'd like to get that figured out before pulling the engine and possibly having that issue later with a new motor and either hurt the new motor or make diagnosis more confusing after a lot of changes. No engine light or DTC's. Thinking to replace the longblock and rebuild my turbos with the upgraded compressor wheels (where to buy?) and some catless downpipes (maybe the 3in if still available ??) and run a tune again. Can the engine run on stock tune with upgraded turbo wheels if needed or would it always have to be tuned. So thoughts on new engine considerations and upgrade turbo wheels would be appreciated. My Ford dealer wants $8k to replace the engine only. I love the car and still owe maybe $15k on it and would like to keep it on the road and maybe upgrade it some while I'm at it. Also need to put in my new sway bar end links and strut tower mounts due to some suspension clunking. The car is still very clean and cared for. I always changed my Mobile 1 FS oil every 6-7K miles so I'm bummed this happened as I love this car.
Cost to rebuild turbos and local place in Houston TX area to do it ??

thanks to any tips....... thought about a built engine but not sure its worth it for me knowing the drivetrain has other weak points and limitations anyway.

Sucks to have this happen!  Computer controls are great for a lot of things, but they also mask engine problems.  I think the built block is looking better all the time ...  Maybe the TX heat gets to these engines.  Have you had an oil analysis done?  Since there is so much oil consumption, either there is excessive blowby or oil is literally leaking from somewhere.  Maybe blowby is covering for lost compression?

Eco Power Parts is offering the upgraded compressor wheel option.  A good time to put in new oil feed lines/gaskets also.

How does the intercooler, turbo piping and wastegates' condition look?  If they are all ok, very likely the turbos are ok and can be upgraded.  OEM turbo seals can certainly be improved upon, but if you go that route, might as well get the ATP upgraded turbos, unless you have a local shop that can rebuild them 4 u.

My 2 cents.

Quote from: 68_GT on June 02, 2017, 02:12:50 AM
I'm at 131K miles most of it tuned with LMS stage 3 tune and K&N, plugs and 3 bar. I drive it with a purpose but not hard core. Car has always run good and still kinda does. It has has a tick since about 70K miles and more recently it has gotten loud enough that it now sounds like a knocking rod and a few mechanics agree.

late to the thread ...

If a rod goes,  it goes hard and almost immediately.  unless you have been babying the crap out of it for 60k miles i think it is not a rod persay.. that sounds upper cylinder to me.   something bad slowly going worse over time in the valve train sounds WAY more likely to me as everything there suffers LESS loading and more cyclic rpm.   

how much are the ATP turbos ? I saw like $4k somewhere. Seems too pricy for basically stock turbos with just the wheels replaced. Im not willing to spend that while I'm getting an engine. I want to say I have seen the billet wheels for $700 for the pair, so I would find someone to rebuild them locally. Does anyone have tips on that ? better parts / seals to use ?

does anyone have a better idea for replacing / repairing my engine than ordering one from Tousley Ford for $3,600 and having it install locally ?

Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2017, 03:21:13 AM
Sucks to have this happen!  Computer controls are great for a lot of things, but they also mask engine problems.  I think the built block is looking better all the time ...  Maybe the TX heat gets to these engines.  Have you had an oil analysis done?  Since there is so much oil consumption, either there is excessive blowby or oil is literally leaking from somewhere.  Maybe blowby is covering for lost compression?

Eco Power Parts is offering the upgraded compressor wheel option.  A good time to put in new oil feed lines/gaskets also.

How does the intercooler, turbo piping and wastegates' condition look?  If they are all ok, very likely the turbos are ok and can be upgraded.  OEM turbo seals can certainly be improved upon, but if you go that route, might as well get the ATP upgraded turbos, unless you have a local shop that can rebuild them 4 u.

My 2 cents.

what's the deal with the oil feed lines and gaskets ? All the piping and intercooler seem to be fine as far as I can tell just a little dirty / dusty.

Also can you run the stock tune with upgraded turbo wheels or are you limited then to only running aftermarket tunes ?

thinking about catless 3in dp's too. Iguess theres no way for them to pass inspection so do you swap them in and out for yearly inspections ? I don't want my car loud just to hear the turbos and add power and any other DP benefits...

The oil feed lines & gaskets I mentioned because at least on the 2010-12 they tend to leak over the years.  So if you notice any oil seepage at that junction, that is any opportune time to replace.

AJP can explain this more than I can, but I believe you should be able to run the upgraded turbos with the stock tune.  The amount of boost needed is a variable and continually adjusted by the PCM.  To take full advantage of the upgrades however, you will need an aftermarket tune.

Yes, you would have to swap the DP's in/out for visual inspection, if it is like in California.  If the rear O2s are turned off, it pretty much won't pass in any state that checks th e OBD port.  It won't be really loud or anything with the DP's, tho Stainless Works DP's are known to "buzz" even with the remainder being an OEM setup so you may want to avoid them.

You're losing 2 quarts of oil per tank of gas?  That's a lot of oil?  Is it blowing out of your exhaust or is it leaking?

If you do end up needing an engine, you could also buy a junk yard engine if the price is right.  There are a few in your area.  First link has the oil cooler and the second is without an oil cooler.  Don't know which applies to your car.

http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=All+States&userIMS=&userInterchange=FC%40BN&userSide=&userDate=2013&userDate2=2013&dbModel=27.29.1.1&userModel=Ford%20Taurus&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000001093395321&userPreference=zip&userZip=77001&userLat=29.7634&userLong=-95.3634&userIntSelect=1818007&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey= (http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=All+States&userIMS=&userInterchange=FC%40BN&userSide=&userDate=2013&userDate2=2013&dbModel=27.29.1.1&userModel=Ford%20Taurus&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000001093395321&userPreference=zip&userZip=77001&userLat=29.7634&userLong=-95.3634&userIntSelect=1818007&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey=)

http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=All+States&userIMS=&userInterchange=FC%40BO&userSide=&userDate=2013&userDate2=2013&dbModel=27.29.1.1&userModel=Ford%20Taurus&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000001093396804&userPreference=zip&userZip=77001&userLat=29.7634&userLong=-95.3634&userIntSelect=1818008&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey= (http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=All+States&userIMS=&userInterchange=FC%40BO&userSide=&userDate=2013&userDate2=2013&dbModel=27.29.1.1&userModel=Ford%20Taurus&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000001093396804&userPreference=zip&userZip=77001&userLat=29.7634&userLong=-95.3634&userIntSelect=1818008&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey=)

Brand New Crate motor for 5100.00 (1000.00 Core included)  So 4,100.00 Bucks

Remainufacturerd by Ford, 36 Month Warranty, out of Columbus,

One hungry ford dealer, PM Me if you need to..

Quote from: irondoor19 on June 02, 2017, 02:33:05 PM
Brand New Crate motor for 5100.00 (1000.00 Core included)  So 4,100.00 Bucks

Remainufacturerd by Ford, 36 Month Warranty, out of Columbus,

One hungry ford dealer, PM Me if you need to..

$8k is the motor and installed total.
Tousley Ford (Autonation Ford of White Bear Lake)
https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/forums/autonation-ford-of-white-bear-lake-formerly-tous.320/ (https://www.svtperformance.com/forums/forums/autonation-ford-of-white-bear-lake-formerly-tous.320/)
has it for $3,600 (after core Im sure) for the motor longblock , they do 10% over cost for "good guy discount" for SVT Performance forum members.

Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2017, 12:08:20 PM
The oil feed lines & gaskets I mentioned because at least on the 2010-12 they tend to leak over the years.  So if you notice any oil seepage at that junction, that is any opportune time to replace.

AJP can explain this more than I can, but I believe you should be able to run the upgraded turbos with the stock tune.  The amount of boost needed is a variable and continually adjusted by the PCM.  To take full advantage of the upgrades however, you will need an aftermarket tune.

Yes, you would have to swap the DP's in/out for visual inspection, if it is like in California.  If the rear O2s are turned off, it pretty much won't pass in any state that checks th e OBD port.  It won't be really loud or anything with the DP's, tho Stainless Works DP's are known to "buzz" even with the remainder being an OEM setup so you may want to avoid them.

OK great I'm thinking to fix my SHO and give it to my wife and get something cheaper to own and operate like a fusion or something for my daily driver. I work in sales for ADT and Im a contract state officer as well and drive around doing surveillance a lot. I want to be able to run a stock tune if needed but have upgraded turbos possibly also.

Quote from: pmezo33 on June 02, 2017, 01:13:59 PM
You're losing 2 quarts of oil per tank of gas?  That's a lot of oil?  Is it blowing out of your exhaust or is it leaking?

If you do end up needing an engine, you could also buy a junk yard engine if the price is right.  There are a few in your area.  First link has the oil cooler and the second is without an oil cooler.  Don't know which applies to your car.

http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=All+States&userIMS=&userInterchange=FC%40BN&userSide=&userDate=2013&userDate2=2013&dbModel=27.29.1.1&userModel=Ford%20Taurus&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000001093395321&userPreference=zip&userZip=77001&userLat=29.7634&userLong=-95.3634&userIntSelect=1818007&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey= (http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=All+States&userIMS=&userInterchange=FC%40BN&userSide=&userDate=2013&userDate2=2013&dbModel=27.29.1.1&userModel=Ford%20Taurus&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000001093395321&userPreference=zip&userZip=77001&userLat=29.7634&userLong=-95.3634&userIntSelect=1818007&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey=)

http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=All+States&userIMS=&userInterchange=FC%40BO&userSide=&userDate=2013&userDate2=2013&dbModel=27.29.1.1&userModel=Ford%20Taurus&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000001093396804&userPreference=zip&userZip=77001&userLat=29.7634&userLong=-95.3634&userIntSelect=1818008&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey= (http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=All+States&userIMS=&userInterchange=FC%40BO&userSide=&userDate=2013&userDate2=2013&dbModel=27.29.1.1&userModel=Ford%20Taurus&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=200000000000000001093396804&userPreference=zip&userZip=77001&userLat=29.7634&userLong=-95.3634&userIntSelect=1818008&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey=)

Ive considered pull out engines also, but for the difference in money and possible risks involved I think Ill get one from Ford. I don't see the oil going anywhere except a decent size puff once. I wonder if my bogging is excessive oil in the cylinders burning ?? But then I would see is like a crop duster I assume ??

Local wrecked vehicles at junk yard. I found a 2014 sho full motor with turbos rtc, had 15,000 miles when hit in rear and totalled. At the time junkyard wanted 4000. So check locally or crate motor.

Have you dropped the bellypan to see maybe if the oil is leaking/hiding there?  Do you watch fuel trims?  Pretty clean burning oil if it is burning up and no blue smoke ...

Yeah I have looked all over for oil leaks and see nothing.

I wonder what causes my car to bog so much but then seems to run and boost just fine at higher rpms and more so in higher gear. I pulls pretty normal feeling starting about 60 in third at about 4K rpms ... ???

What surprises me more is there are no codes set at all in the PCM or any other module.  But if you are not monitoring with Torque Pro at a minimum, you are not getting the information to diagnose the situation.  I would suggest an SCT tuner ONLY for datalogging purposes if nothing else.  That way you can have datalogs looked at by a number of members on this forum who have gained experience doing so.

Short of that, we would be back in the parts swapping game.  Possibly the throttle body/motor/position sensor, the air intake having a restriction, PCM being faulty, pests having found a home inside the tubing or chewed some wiring, etc.

Yeah I don't get it the engine bogs and bogs then will pull
hard suddenly with boost ..

How do the upgraded wastegates on the upgraded turbos help performance ?

The wastegates basically precent the turbos from making too much boost and the BOV just let out boosted air when you let off the throttle right ? So how would these little turbos make too much boost that it needs a wastegate anyway ?

Where is the best place to buy upgraded turbos and are they all the same ??

Last do our engines have those exhaust / turbo adapters ? Seeing larger diameter exhaust to turbo adapter but didn't know if our cars even have those little exhaust plates ?

dang engine just blew.

official time of death 132,311.70 miles.

Engine fragments took out one of my bran new rear tires..... ugh

looks like a new longblock and upgraded turbos are in my near future, unless they'll blow up another stock longblock ???

anyone know what these codes are ?

P0012
C1001
B1215

Blown engine maybe ? smh

Wow, sorry to hear it actually came about!

https://www.obd-codes.com/p0012 (https://www.obd-codes.com/p0012)
P0012 = "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)

QuoteThis diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is a generic powertrain code, which means that it applies to OBD-II equipped vehicles, including but not limited to Toyota, VW, Honda, Chevrolet, Hyundai, Audi, Acura, etc. A P0012 code refers to the VVT (variable valve timing) or VCT (variable camshaft timing) components and the car's PCM (powertrain control module) or ECM (engine control module). VVT is a technology used in the engine to allow it to get greater power or efficiency at different running points. That consists of a few different components but the P0012 DTC specifically refers to the camshaft (cam) timing. In this case, if the cam timing is over-retarded, the engine light will be illluminated and the code will be set. The "A" camshaft is either the intake, left, or front camshaft. This code is specific to bank 1. Bank 1 is the side of the engine that contains cylinder #1.

C1001 - KOER Self-Test Not Completed, KOER Aborted Conditions

B1215 - Running board lamp circuit short to battery

People have had P0012 codes and it has not blown up the engine.  I think it was an internal fault like a bad piston ring or cracked block that isn't monitored by the OBD system directly.

Caused by my running board lights !

Yes, that was at the core of this explosion, no doubt LOL.

As a reference for future readers:

This is what 68_GT's car sounded like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg)
and this is what another owner posted on YouTube (thanks, glock!)
https://youtu.be/1F5Kl9DVN7I (https://youtu.be/1F5Kl9DVN7I)

Now established it is definitely not normal for these engines.  No oil pressure light ever came on, quite possibly because the system is self-adjusting oil pressure and "hiding" the problem.

Also the fact that 2 quarts of oil were lost without an oil pressure light coming on ... worthwhile to be familiar with the "normal" sounds your car makes, and be concerned when the sounds change.

Ha... I had that same code when i smoked the Piston

P0012 = "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)

Quote from: SHOdded on June 06, 2017, 03:17:04 AM
Yes, that was at the core of this explosion, no doubt LOL.

As a reference for future readers:

This is what 68_GT's car sounded like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyToDADRWcg)
and this is what another owner posted on YouTube (thanks, glock!)
https://youtu.be/1F5Kl9DVN7I (https://youtu.be/1F5Kl9DVN7I)

Now established it is definitely not normal for these engines.  No oil pressure light ever came on, quite possibly because the system is self-adjusting oil pressure and "hiding" the problem.

Also the fact that 2 quarts of oil were lost without an oil pressure light coming on ... worthwhile to be familiar with the "normal" sounds your car makes, and be concerned when the sounds change.

Exactly and the noise started at 75k miles as a tick and it ran good lasted fine until abouot 127k miles then The noise got worst turned into more of a chatter started using a lot of gas a lot of oil and wasn't running very good mainly at low RPM's and more load. And FYI I change my own oil religiously since the day I bought the car at 8000 miles with mobile 1 fully synthetic. I can't blame that tune or tuner it had the stage III LMS tunes since 10,000 miles and I drove the car spiritedly often but never ragged it out. I have another video somewhere of how the text sounded initially that I will look for.

If you posted the video here, will take me some time to find it ...

Here's some background on the timing elements replacement at around 100K, for those interested:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5239.msg100702.html#msg100702 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5239.msg100702.html#msg100702)

 (ftp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CD2rOY4yCY#) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CD2rOY4yCY#)
ftp://  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqxDlArtrUw#)

Wish I had replaced the engine rather than only repair the timing chain tensioner and guides ! That was $3,300 at the dealer...

Yeah that was a big hit.  How much would their diagnostic fee have been if you had refused the work?

maybe $85 since TC rattle is pretty easy to diagnose. The tapping the dealer always said "you need an engine" funny turns out they were right at 70K miles.

has anyone else replaced their longblock ?

It was right at $5,800 shipped and I'll get $1k back on the core. New engines are getting harder to find so might only be remans left not too far off.

i'm concerned about what all the blown engine oil could have contaminated ?? turbos etc... ??

new engine has 3 years / unlimited mileage warranty.

anything else I should do while I'm at this project with the engine out ? such as...... any way / need to clean out the intercooler ?

Dam:

you over paid by 700.00, We had the intake hot tanked, tried cleaning the intercooler,
but upon inspection it still looked bad, bought a new one 220.00. Cleaned all the inlet, outlet
plumbing, etc, etc... Instructions with the New Motor Mandate a clean intake...R you doing
the install...?
if you want any details, more than above PM me, you can talk to my Tech. It is also one
small part after another (meaning the little parts will Bleed you to death)....

Quote from: irondoor19 on June 14, 2017, 08:52:54 AM
Dam:

you over paid by 700.00, We had the intake hot tanked, tried cleaning the intercooler,
but upon inspection it still looked bad, bought a new one 220.00. Cleaned all the inlet, outlet
plumbing, etc, etc... Instructions with the New Motor Mandate a clean intake...R you doing
the install...?
if you want any details, more than above PM me, you can talk to my Tech. It is also one
small part after another (meaning the little parts will Bleed you to death)....

what was wrong with your intercooler ??

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/85693FEF-005E-42C9-8874-39EDFC492E6A_zpss7c7m8h2.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/85693FEF-005E-42C9-8874-39EDFC492E6A_zpss7c7m8h2.jpg.html)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/2C734286-D55A-4C9D-87B1-7CE7F2518FE8_zpstc4riuli.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/2C734286-D55A-4C9D-87B1-7CE7F2518FE8_zpstc4riuli.jpg.html)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/86650FCA-437E-499E-9AFC-D2BC4F024E92_zpszmx8o6dl.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/86650FCA-437E-499E-9AFC-D2BC4F024E92_zpszmx8o6dl.jpg.html)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/D4713227-E71C-47DA-A5FE-93D3226E5FBD_zps7yxino27.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/D4713227-E71C-47DA-A5FE-93D3226E5FBD_zps7yxino27.jpg.html)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/0BBB57DF-F4BA-4679-8145-E2239C9BEBD4_zpsjqodbcpr.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/0BBB57DF-F4BA-4679-8145-E2239C9BEBD4_zpsjqodbcpr.jpg.html)

update!

Quote from: 68_GT on June 22, 2017, 08:54:11 PM
(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/85693FEF-005E-42C9-8874-39EDFC492E6A_zpss7c7m8h2.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/85693FEF-005E-42C9-8874-39EDFC492E6A_zpss7c7m8h2.jpg.html)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/2C734286-D55A-4C9D-87B1-7CE7F2518FE8_zpstc4riuli.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/2C734286-D55A-4C9D-87B1-7CE7F2518FE8_zpstc4riuli.jpg.html)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/86650FCA-437E-499E-9AFC-D2BC4F024E92_zpszmx8o6dl.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/86650FCA-437E-499E-9AFC-D2BC4F024E92_zpszmx8o6dl.jpg.html)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/D4713227-E71C-47DA-A5FE-93D3226E5FBD_zps7yxino27.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/D4713227-E71C-47DA-A5FE-93D3226E5FBD_zps7yxino27.jpg.html)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n62/68_GT/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/0BBB57DF-F4BA-4679-8145-E2239C9BEBD4_zpsjqodbcpr.jpg) (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/68_GT/media/car%20stuff/2013%20SHO/0BBB57DF-F4BA-4679-8145-E2239C9BEBD4_zpsjqodbcpr.jpg.html)

Put some jb weld, you'll be right as rain

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