I just replaced the vent purge solenoid and it fixed the stumble at idle and the fuel tank vent issue..
Now I have a new problem!
Pretty much anytime the car is moving forward (with few exceptions that don't really follow a rhyme or reason) the RPM is fluctuating, rising and falling approximately 25-50 RPM about twice per second. Its just enough to be able to hear the engine surge, feel it in the seat and see the tach jump. It is also stumbling slightly anytime I give it a little bit of gas, but not enough to downshift.
Its not throwing any DTC codes and the fuel mileage hasn't changed much, I assume its a sensor or something that is on its way out.. Any ideas on what to start with??
So the engine is actually surging, probably not a torque converter issue. Are you datalogging with Torque Pro or Forscan? I would post those logs, because it makes it a lot easier to figure out what might be happening. Could be wastegate issue, or it could be a throttle body (motor/sensor) issue. Have you cleaned the MAP sensors, checked the air filter, the intercooler, turbo piping for leaks, ...?
Ya its picking up and dropping 25-50 rpm about twice a second. Even does it on a flat road with the cruse set. I can put it in manual and increase the rpm's and it calms down for a bit, but the surging eventually comes back unless the engine is under a load greater than just maintaining speed.
I looked over all of the pipes yesterday, changed the oil and installed the solenoid on the Evap system under the car. I also got a new set of tunes from LMS, my alky/meth pump stopped working so I needed a catless 3bar tune to run until I get the meth working again. The surging was happening yesterday before I installed the new tunes though. I have the torque app, ill try to get a log recorded on my ride home in the morning.. Hope its not a trans/torque converter issue!! The PTO gets the gear oil changed every other oil change, so its not likely that its the culprit. I will also check the trans fluid level before heading out in the morning, cross that off the list.
I have downloaded and FORScan and my wifi ELM reader just showed up.. There are quite a few more PID's possible to log than in the torque app, what PID's do you guys think you might need to see in order to diagnose this stumbling/surging problem?
I would log as many sensor PIDs as it will let you, with regards to speed control sensors (Throttle, MAP, etc.) as well as engine speed, load, vehicle speed, and possibly a few extras if you have space/bandwidth to do so..
Take a look at Fomoco's torque layouts, that should help. Also pick any of the numerous sct logs of late, they have what you are looking for. Lambda, fuel trim, hpfp fuel pressure, wastegate duty cycle, fuel pump duty cycle/pressure, throttle position, alongside speed, rpm, gear and o2 sendor readings all will be important.
Thanks guys! I am driving from Louisville to Ft Campbell this afternoon, should give me plenty of time to get some logs. Hopefully I can catch the shudder and surging in one of them. Its been acting much better since I installed the canister vent solenoid but its still not right.
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 10, 2017, 02:37:14 PM
Thanks guys! I am driving from Louisville to Ft Campbell this afternoon, should give me plenty of time to get some logs. Hopefully I can catch the shudder and surging in one of them. Its been acting much better since I installed the canister vent solenoid but its still not right.
Glad the vent solenoid helped out a bit but would also try to rule out a pinched fuel line from the canister. Z
How could a fuel line have suddenly become pinched? I was able to record atleast one instance of the stumbling and surging on the drive.. now I have to find a way to post a csv file using an iPad....
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 10, 2017, 09:32:27 PM
How could a fuel line have suddenly become pinched? I was able to record atleast one instance of the stumbling and surging on the drive.. now I have to find a way to post a csv file using an iPad....
Air in the fuel tank/lines which can ultimately cause your vehicle to run rich/lean....Did you also change the valve by the engine bay? Z
Best of luck to ya.
I haven't changed the one in the engine bay, did have time before my trip.
Here area couple logs using FORScan, Ive never used that program to log and don't know if i quite did it correctly. The car was stumbling at idle in the first one and the boost what surging slightly and running generally poorly in the second one.
Combined and imported into xls for those interested.
Vent purge solenoid replaced under the car, Vapor canister purge solenoid replaced, stock tune and 2 bar reinstalled, this piece of s*** car still stumbles at idle, the RPM still fluctuates under normal load and still stumbles randomly after upshifting.
I feel like parking it in the back yard and letting the weeds take it over :(
Seriously at my wits end, it throws zero codes, the data logs look fine, it has brand new O2 sensors, I've tried every tune I can including the latest from LMS... Does anyone have any ideas of what part I should be replacing next?
Do you need a strategy update?...put some good trans fluid in? Want to try an ajp turbo tune?
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 18, 2017, 11:06:02 PM
Do you need a strategy update?...put some good trans fluid in? Want to try an ajp turbo tune?
I went through the engine bay last week looking for loose boost pipes, air hoses, cleaned the filter, checked the trans fluid (bright red and correct level) and double checked all of the electrical connections. The common knock sensor wire was reinforced last year and is still in good condition.
How does a strategy go bad in a car? What changes in the ECU to cause the motor to run poorly? I didn't get a strategy update that I know of, but I did get new tunes from LMS in an attempt to fix this problem. It I mean, its not like the car has to communicate with peripherals that are constantly updated... its a Taurus, not a laptop! Sorry, that came off like a rant.. Im just frustrated with this.
Im already $$ into a tuner with LMS, so id rather not spend more on software but I do appreciate the offer. I hear great things about your tuning!
Here's a complete list of TSB on 10-12 SHO. Z
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=496.0 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=496.0)
Any chance the wastegates or their actuating rods are misbehaving? Have seen this as common issues on the 2.0 ...
You're 100% sure this isn't torque converter related? Sounds like a lot of the symptoms i had when my tc went.
Quote from: pmezo33 on February 19, 2017, 10:30:35 AM
You're 100% sure this isn't torque converter related? Sounds like a lot of the symptoms i had when my tc went.
I flushed the trans fluid with a drain and fill 15k miles ago (about 3 oil changes ago) and this problem just started about 1k miles ago. Began as a stumble at idle in traffic that worsened into stalling in traffic. I changed the canister purge solenoid (the one on the side of the canister under the car) and the purge valve that is mounted to the side of the intake last month and the symptoms cleared for maybe 50 miles. It developed into a loss of power under normal driving conditions (very noticeable if I accelerate, but not enough to downshift). While driving at a constant speed, the RPM's may or may not "surge" by aprox. 50 rpm at a constant rate, but the surging would go away if I accelerated WITH a downshift. Sometimes (new symptom) it will act like it has a misfire, rapid violent vibration coming from the engine, but never a misfire DTC. At WOT, the engine pulls strong, the transmission shifts with authority and all is well. At idle and driving like a sane person, its s***.
All that being said, non of the problems are guaranteed to occur, happens about 30-40% of the time and has zero correlation with the engine being warm/cold or the # of miles driven.
Just out of curiosity, how much was the tc replacement when yours went?
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 19, 2017, 11:01:13 AM
Quote from: pmezo33 on February 19, 2017, 10:30:35 AM
You're 100% sure this isn't torque converter related? Sounds like a lot of the symptoms i had when my tc went.
I flushed the trans fluid with a drain and fill 15k miles ago (about 3 oil changes ago) and this problem just started about 1k miles ago. Began as a stumble at idle in traffic that worsened into stalling in traffic. I changed the canister purge solenoid (the one on the side of the canister under the car) and the purge valve that is mounted to the side of the intake last month and the symptoms cleared for maybe 50 miles. It developed into a loss of power under normal driving conditions (very noticeable if I accelerate, but not enough to downshift). While driving at a constant speed, the RPM's may or may not "surge" by aprox. 50 rpm at a constant rate, but the surging would go away if I accelerated WITH a downshift. Sometimes (new symptom) it will act like it has a misfire, rapid violent vibration coming from the engine, but never a misfire DTC. At WOT, the engine pulls strong, the transmission shifts with authority and all is well. At idle and driving like a sane person, its s***.
All that being said, non of the problems are guaranteed to occur, happens about 30-40% of the time and has zero correlation with the engine being warm/cold or the # of miles driven.
Just out of curiosity, how much was the tc replacement when yours went?
Those are different symptoms that i had with my TC. I got the fluctuating of RPM's when the RPM's were low. When RPM's were high, it ran smooth. Happened at all speeds and even in cruise control but was fine at idle. Did not have any stalling or loss of power. My issues never felt like a misfire and would not be mistaken for one. Just a bouncy rpm gauge that you could also feel as it went through the gears.
I'm not exactly sure what caused my TC to go. Happened at about 95k miles on my 2010 MKS. Trans fluid was changed within the year when the symptoms started. I changed the trans fluid again once the symptoms started and it didn't fix the issue. Probably not the best method for diagnosis, but the way i finally confirmed it was my TC was by adding a friction modifier additive to my trans fluid that actually fixed the problem for about a month before the symptoms returned. The results were immediate, so i knew it was trans/tc related.
Had the trans rebuilt and got a new converter put in about a year ago. It's recommended to get the whole thing rebuilt when you do a TC or the problems can just come back because of possible contamination. Been good ever since.
At this point id be happy to hear the tc was bad, atleast I would have a direction to go to get my car back!
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 19, 2017, 12:50:30 PM
At this point id be happy to hear the tc was bad, atleast I would have a direction to go to get my car back!
Put some friction modifier in there and see if it helps. What difference does it make at this point if you're running out of options and nothing else is working? If it helps, you know what your issue is.
I used two packages of this stuff. The results should be immediate, but it's just a band aid.
https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-19610-Tranny-Instant-Shudder/dp/B0002JMLQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487527733&sr=8-1&keywords=transmission+shudder (https://www.amazon.com/Lubegard-19610-Tranny-Instant-Shudder/dp/B0002JMLQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487527733&sr=8-1&keywords=transmission+shudder)
I dont think i would put friction modifier in...that stuff is made for gear oil on differentials that use clutch packs.
I woukd go to ford and make sure you have the latest calibration from ford..your car is pretty old and ford changes hundreds of items in the tunes for trans settings
Most tunes dont go into the level of detail that ford does
The new strategy from ford is like a new custom tune...i always like to take advantage of of what the ford calibrators have come up with and then i make my changes on top of that
If your lms tune is not based on the latest strategy for your car then there are updates you can benefit from....most of ford updates are for drivibility and emissions
Lubegard product works fine in transmissions, but yeah, like any other additive, the longevity depends on how bad the original situation was to begin with. It can buy you time to consider your options.
Definitely check for the latest calibration, hope there is one, and it is able to correct the issue. Also worth trying AJPs tune, see if it is a software issue.
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 19, 2017, 02:13:03 PM
I dont think i would put friction modifier in...that stuff is made for gear oil on differentials that use clutch packs.
I woukd go to ford and make sure you have the latest calibration from ford..your car is pretty old and ford changes hundreds of items in the tunes for trans settings
Most tunes dont go into the level of detail that ford does
The new strategy from ford is like a new custom tune...i always like to take advantage of of what the ford calibrators have come up with and then i make my changes on top of that
If your lms tune is not based on the latest strategy for your car then there are updates you can benefit from....most of ford updates are for drivibility and emissions
I still don't understand why the strategy being an older one makes it now run like doo doo butter??
What changed in my car overnight that it started acting up? It ran fun one day and crap literally the next morning.. it's not like every time I start it, it getsa satilite uplink to Ford and all tuning parameters are confirmed.. To me, this has to be a component failure.
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 19, 2017, 04:31:36 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 19, 2017, 02:13:03 PM
I dont think i would put friction modifier in...that stuff is made for gear oil on differentials that use clutch packs.
I woukd go to ford and make sure you have the latest calibration from ford..your car is pretty old and ford changes hundreds of items in the tunes for trans settings
Most tunes dont go into the level of detail that ford does
The new strategy from ford is like a new custom tune...i always like to take advantage of of what the ford calibrators have come up with and then i make my changes on top of that
If your lms tune is not based on the latest strategy for your car then there are updates you can benefit from....most of ford updates are for drivibility and emissions
I still don't understand why the strategy being an older one makes it now run like doo doo butter??
What changed in my car overnight that it started acting up? It ran fun one day and crap literally the next morning.. it's not like every time I start it, it getsa satilite uplink to Ford and all tuning parameters are confirmed.. To me, this has to be a component failure.
Strategy codes identify which vehicle,motor, etc. and software level your vehicle is at.
If a dealer puts newer software it might benefit especially with the issues your having that's all.
Its important keep the module programming up to date especially the PCM because Ford makes changes for a reason. Z.
Quote from: ZSHO on February 19, 2017, 05:16:13 PM
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 19, 2017, 04:31:36 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 19, 2017, 02:13:03 PM
I dont think i would put friction modifier in...that stuff is made for gear oil on differentials that use clutch packs.
I woukd go to ford and make sure you have the latest calibration from ford..your car is pretty old and ford changes hundreds of items in the tunes for trans settings
Most tunes dont go into the level of detail that ford does
The new strategy from ford is like a new custom tune...i always like to take advantage of of what the ford calibrators have come up with and then i make my changes on top of that
If your lms tune is not based on the latest strategy for your car then there are updates you can benefit from....most of ford updates are for drivibility and emissions
I still don't understand why the strategy being an older one makes it now run like doo doo butter??
What changed in my car overnight that it started acting up? It ran fun one day and crap literally the next morning.. it's not like every time I start it, it getsa satilite uplink to Ford and all tuning parameters are confirmed.. To me, this has to be a component failure.
Strategy codes identify which vehicle,motor, etc. and software level your vehicle is at. If a dealer puts newer software it might benefit especially with the issues your having.
Its important keep the module programming up to date especially the PCM because Ford makes changes for a reason. Z.
You are probably correct and you have a component failure. But it's always a good idea to have the latest tune from ford on your car...A strategy update can have literally hundreds if not thousands of changes to the torque converter logic and trans behavior changes
And yes your LMS tune would over write any changes that the strategy update did....But Then I would send your new strategy over to LMS so they can transfer their items on to the new ford strategy then you get the best of both worlds
Many have reported smoother running/shifting vehicle after a strategy update....Ford spends a lot of time on the drivability areas of a tune not just power....You've changed many hard parts to this point, why are you against a ford flash?
$$$ is why... I despise dealers and have had nothing but bad luck ranging from a refusal to acknowledge a problem until the warranty was up, then saying "oh ya, its that #6 injector alright" to a dealer damaging the cruise control radar and leaving the bumper partially unbolted when replacing said radar causing cracks in the plastic. It makes my stomach hurt to give a dealer money :(
I have yet to find a service department that can do anything I cannot (with the help of you fine folks that is). they seem to have lost the art of diagnosis, only being able to really fix something when the DTC tells them exactly what it is. Otherwise they are just going down the list of likely culprits until they find a fix, and I can do that in my driveway and keep the $75 an hour.
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 19, 2017, 09:42:56 PM
$$$ is why... I despise dealers and have had nothing but bad luck ranging from a refusal to acknowledge a problem until the warranty was up, then saying "oh ya, its that #6 injector alright" to a dealer damaging the cruise control radar and leaving the bumper partially unbolted when replacing said radar causing cracks in the plastic. It makes my stomach hurt to give a dealer money :(
I have yet to find a service department that can do anything I cannot (with the help of you fine folks that is). they seem to have lost the art of diagnosis, only being able to really fix something when the DTC tells them exactly what it is. Otherwise they are just going down the list of likely culprits until they find a fix, and I can do that in my driveway and keep the $75 an hour.
I agree, the dealers I dealt with can't fix anything unless the light is on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So of all the components on the car, what can cause my symptoms regardless of the engine being hot/cold?
Im going to change all the spark plugs and replace the fairily new o2 sensors with fomoco stuff Wednesday.. the Evap stuff has already been done, Ill reinstall the stock tune with the 2 bar just to rule out current modifications. Ill triple check the PTO and Trans fluid to make sure they are filled to the correct level, fresh tank of 93...
And I will call the dealer and see how bad its going to hurt to have my strategy updated, but im skeptical that its going to "fix" the issue. I still have the mindset that my ECU didn't wakeup on a random Tuesday and decide its going to run like crap because Ford rolled out an updated strategy... If it worked well yesterday, it should work just as well today.
Possible culprits:
-boost/vacuum leak somewhere
-a fuel management issue
-a failing air management component
I would thoroughly check/clean the throttle body, the TB motor, and the TP sensor. Grease before reconnecting sensor. The TB is known to be an issue when RPMs fluctuate at idle, so perhaps this is a variant of that problem.
As far as logging, please add TB parameters, including ETC_DSD and ETC_ACT, and ETC_TRIM (should be named pretty similarly). Also look for wastegate duty cycle (WGDC, perhaps?) parameters, and Torque Source/Torque Management parameters and add those. Then re-log & post. I am not seeiing much in your logs to point at right now. The knock readings look spot-on, there MIGHT be a SLIGHT variance in Equivalence, but again, nothing pinned down.
I just ordered new Motorcraft 02 sensors, so if they are part of the problem it will be eliminated. Ill check the TB components and clean everything really well, gap the new plugs and record the parameters you suggested... Gotta get this back to tip top!
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jemorgan3/embed/slideshow/sho"></iframe>
Was changing the spark plugs and chasing vacuum lines this morning and found this... looks like there should be a cap or something plugged into that lower opening. Ignore the wire unplugged, i removed it to get a better pic.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZDjDfXAh.jpg)
Very common occurrence, will not affect functionality, BUT best to have a cap on there to prevent dirt & grime from accumulating. If you can find the cap or buy the cap, put it on with a dab of silicone sealant or something similar after cleaning out the area.
Damn, I thought I was onto something with that! Anyway.. I changed the spark plugs this morning (first time the boots haven't stuck to the plug, so it was a way easy job) then went on a short drive after warming it up and confirming the trans fluid was filled properly (it was).
At idle it is smooth, but the RPM's still surge while cruising and/or accelerating at anything but breakneck speed. The exaggerated studder is also still there when accelerating like a normal person, first the weird surging, then a bad studder. All the PS-534 plugs were gapped to .030" and the old ones didn't show any bad patterns, all grayish tan tips with a trace of dark soot at the base of the threads.
Again, if I drive like an angry person, it sings beautifully.. Shifts nice and firm like usual. Drive like a normal person, crap. I data logged about 30 seconds of it, I think I got all of the symptoms captured:
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 22, 2017, 01:00:22 PM
Damn, I thought I was onto something with that! Anyway.. I changed the spark plugs this morning (first time the boots haven't stuck to the plug, so it was a way easy job) then went on a short drive after warming it up and confirming the trans fluid was filled properly (it was).
At idle it is smooth, but the RPM's still surge while cruising and/or accelerating at anything but breakneck speed. The exaggerated studder is also still there when accelerating like a normal person, first the weird surging, then a bad studder. All the PS-534 plugs were gapped to .030" and the old ones didn't show any bad patterns, all grayish tan tips with a trace of dark soot at the base of the threads.
Again, if I drive like an angry person, it sings beautifully.. Shifts nice and firm like usual. Drive like a normal person, crap. I data logged about 30 seconds of it, I think I got all of the symptoms captured:
Again... sounds exactly like my torque converter when it went. Same exact symptoms. Low RPM's, the car shuddering through the gears. High RPM's, runs smooth.
I think its more that I don't want to believe its the trans, but the shudder isn't consistent and went completely away for more than an insignificant number of miles after replacing the vent solenoid...
Keeping my fingers crossed that someone can look at the last data log and identify something else!!
Here's one way to test for TC shudder:
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/203 (http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/203)
It is also possible that increasing the pressure of the EPC solenoid may resolve a TC shudder, according to another article. You could talk to LME and see what they think about the idea. If they agree to do it, then you can test with "normal" driving to see 4 yourself.
In your latest log, I do see TC slippage> than desired as accelerator pedal input increases. Throttle body behavior seems normal, as does WG duty cycle.
The conveter is rarely locked below 5th gear and at low loads so you should see slippage....ill try and look at the log tonight but i dont expect to see much....it seems there are quite a few sho's ,mks' that are doing this bucking thing at low loads
If AJP's evaluation of my latest doesn't suggest anything BUT converter issues, Ill get it checked out this week.. Are dealers the way to go or would I be better off going to a transmission specialty shop?
Also.
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 22, 2017, 08:23:45 PM
If AJP's evaluation of my latest doesn't suggest anything BUT converter issues, Ill get it checked out this week.. Are dealers the way to go or would I be better off going to a transmission specialty shop?
Also.
Bring it to a trans shop and have them evaluate. They should be able to diagnose it fairly quickly. Mine never threw any codes, but a five minute drive was enough for them to tell me my TC was shot.
Transmission was almost a quart down when I checked it with the engine running.. Added a quart to it, seems to run slightly smoother and I get slightly less RPM fluctuation at steady low speed, but the "cattle guard crossing" i still there under acceleration.
I guess a new transmission/converter is in my future :( I thought the trans was nearly bullet proof on these?
It is, but it has to be serviced frequently if it is tuned. Plus you have 150K on the car, that's pretty much I'd say Ford expectations for a transmission (i.e., "lifetime"). Did you buy the SHO new, if not, you bought it with how many miles on it?
My trans was regularly serviced when my TC went at just under 100k. Mine was/is 100% stock too.
When was the last time yours was flushed? I don't know if being down a QT will cause a trans to overheat, but it probably didn't help.
At least you know what your problem most likely is. It's an expense, but at least you have an idea how to fix it and get it running normal again.
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 22, 2017, 06:46:24 PM
The conveter is rarely locked below 5th gear and at low loads so you should see slippage....ill try and look at the log tonight but i dont expect to see much....it seems there are quite a few sho's ,mks' that are doing this bucking thing at low loads
Mine does a shudder/buck/rpm flutter on decel every once in a while. Done it since day 1. It rarely happens but it does happen.
150k miles on a transmission today, especially in a car that has been serviced regularly and never raced/tracked/abused in any way ....to me, this is absolutely unacceptable. This car has given me more headache than every car I've owned combined, from a faulty injector, the adaptive cruise control, evap issues and now this! Hands down lowest quality vehical I've ever had.
I really appreciate all the help from you guys, even though I officially hate the car, you all are OK in my book ;)
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 23, 2017, 02:33:27 PM
150k miles on a transmission today, especially in a car that has been serviced regularly and never raced/tracked/abused in any way ....to me, this is absolutely unacceptable. This car has given me more headache than every car I've owned combined, from a faulty injector, the adaptive cruise control, evap issues and now this! Hands down lowest quality vehical I've ever had.
I really appreciate all the help from you guys, even though I officially hate the car, you all are OK in my book ;)
How many miles of that
150k is Tuned? Still with the original trans?PTU? If so not to shabby IMO. Z
I tuned at 50k, bought it from a 75 yo man who couldn't park to save his life (curb rash) but rarely drove it. The extent of my usage has been driving on the highway from southern Missouri to southern Indiana twice a week for the last two years. This is the perfect example of a gently used car.. I get that it being tuned may cause more wear by virtue of more power, but the most I ever got into the gas was highway on ramps. If 150k is all Ford can muster, they need to take a long hard look at their trans supplier.
I don't think that 150K is bad at all, but yeah, I understand no one wants to pay for parts after the sale, but stuff is bound to happen. I think that comparatively, Ford has done pretty well in the reliability department, but certainly it cannot be bulletproof. There are some trends that should not be, like door latches and shifters and APIMs etc. mostly on the electronics side of things, where Ford should step up to the plate.
Anyway, try to see if there is a new calibration for the PCM, maybe Livernois can check since they have the latest OEM strategies available. If there IS an update available, try that first. Quite a few trans issues have been "resolved" by an updated calibration. Sometimes an updated TSS/OSS sensor duo is what it needs.
You could always try that lubegard additive that i mentioned for your TC. It should immediately work and well. Problem was the longevity of the product, but maybe you'll have better luck. What do you have to lose at this point?
its already at the trans shop.. As much as id like to trade it in on an ecodiesel grand Cherokee, Im in the beginning stages of building a house, so a new monthly car payment isn't in my best interest right now. So seeing as how this thing is paid off, rebuilding the trans is cheaper by far than anything else at this point. Maybe Ill get more than 150k miles out of the next one..
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 24, 2017, 01:10:40 PM
its already at the trans shop.. As much as id like to trade it in on an ecodiesel grand Cherokee, Im in the beginning stages of building a house, so a new monthly car payment isn't in my best interest right now. So seeing as how this thing is paid off, rebuilding the trans is cheaper by far than anything else at this point. Maybe Ill get more than 150k miles out of the next one..
Not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but did you do any transmission services prior to this? The old golden standard was something like 30k intervals for flush and filter change on a transmission. Automatics will ALWAYS have some metal shavings in the pan, but as long as they get caught before the filter it isn't an issue.
Just opened up the 4R70W on my 03 mustang, 120k without service, and a fair bit of tiny metal shavings, but nothing really to worry about since it shifted smooth like butter, and from the dipstick plunger in the pan, had never been serviced prior to us opening it up - or at least never had the transmission pan off.
I would recommend monitoring trans temp in the future, as extended stays at higher trans temps can burn the fluid and reduce longevity. Make sure to keep an eye on fluid levels as well.
Good luck. Keep us updated on what they do and how it turns out.
Quote from: pmezo33 on February 24, 2017, 03:35:34 PM
Good luck. Keep us updated on what they do and how it turns out.
The trans shifted 100% fine, witch is why it wasn't even on then long list of possible issues. I had never seen what a torque converter looks like when its going out, so i was chasing an engine issue due to the rpm surging and what felt like a misfire. I followed the ford recommended service interval on the trans fluid, and change the PTO gear oil with EVERY oil change.. This car is taken care of, unfortunately all this preventative maintenance isn't panning out for me.
Does anyone know if the PTO will have to be removed when the trans is pulled? If so, I may see if I can pick it up to install a drain plug on the bottom. That and a remote fill would drastically reduce the work load on changing the PTO fluid.
PTU should stay bolted to the trans if they are only doing torque converter.
Ask the trans shop if the have added drain plugs to Ford PTUs in the past. (Edge, Explorer, Flex, etc use the same basic unit)
Im going to have the entire trans rebuilt, in the long run it doesn't add that much to the total cost and i will have peace of mind that I'm not looking at another pointless 4 figure repair bill in the future. Ill see if they can do it!
Powertrain warranty = 60K miles. Best extended warranty = 148K or so. I would be servicing the powertrain at least as often as the powertrain warranty that comes with the car. Seems like hindsight, but I like to err on the side of OCD rather than testing my luck :) It may or may not help in the long run, but at least I know I have done what I could to stave off the "inevitable". At least you can see varnish building up on your engine via the oil fill hole. You have NO insight on how the trans looks, at all!
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 25, 2017, 11:01:02 AM
Im going to have the entire trans rebuilt, in the long run it doesn't add that much to the total cost and i will have peace of mind that I'm not looking at another pointless 4 figure repair bill in the future. Ill see if they can do it!
http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/remanufactured-vs-rebuilt-4-reasons-why-a-reman-trans-is-your-best-option (http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/remanufactured-vs-rebuilt-4-reasons-why-a-reman-trans-is-your-best-option)
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 25, 2017, 03:37:47 PM
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 25, 2017, 11:01:02 AM
Im going to have the entire trans rebuilt, in the long run it doesn't add that much to the total cost and i will have peace of mind that I'm not looking at another pointless 4 figure repair bill in the future. Ill see if they can do it!
http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/remanufactured-vs-rebuilt-4-reasons-why-a-reman-trans-is-your-best-option (http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/remanufactured-vs-rebuilt-4-reasons-why-a-reman-trans-is-your-best-option)
Its all cost driven, Im not going to double the cost of an already expensive repair by doing something that marginally increases the longevity of this car. I am likely going to detune the entire thing and go back to stock if the drivetrain is so dainty that the trans will only last 150k if any additional power is added to it. I really expected more from this car, from the local dealers and most of all from ford...
I think they have made a Chevy owner out of me. Maybe Jeep, I dunno.
Did you buy the car used?
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 25, 2017, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 25, 2017, 03:37:47 PM
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 25, 2017, 11:01:02 AM
Im going to have the entire trans rebuilt, in the long run it doesn't add that much to the total cost and i will have peace of mind that I'm not looking at another pointless 4 figure repair bill in the future. Ill see if they can do it!
http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/remanufactured-vs-rebuilt-4-reasons-why-a-reman-trans-is-your-best-option (http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/remanufactured-vs-rebuilt-4-reasons-why-a-reman-trans-is-your-best-option)
Its all cost driven, Im not going to double the cost of an already expensive repair by doing something that marginally increases the longevity of this car. I am likely going to detune the entire thing and go back to stock if the drivetrain is so dainty that the trans will only last 150k if any additional power is added to it. I really expected more from this car, from the local dealers and most of all from ford...
I think they have made a Chevy owner out of me. Maybe Jeep, I dunno.
You realize this trans is 1/2 GM, right?
Good luck with any Fiat.
Yeah with dodge, eventually the mopar bleeds onto your driveway and have you ever noticed how many jeeps and GM cars are at the fly by night car dealers....terrible resale because most are neglected junk
I think your case is somewhat isolated unfortunately....many of these trans are doing well with almost 1.5 times the stock torque rating
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 25, 2017, 08:40:09 PM
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 25, 2017, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 25, 2017, 03:37:47 PM
Quote from: jimmyducati on February 25, 2017, 11:01:02 AM
Im going to have the entire trans rebuilt, in the long run it doesn't add that much to the total cost and i will have peace of mind that I'm not looking at another pointless 4 figure repair bill in the future. Ill see if they can do it!
http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/remanufactured-vs-rebuilt-4-reasons-why-a-reman-trans-is-your-best-option (http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/remanufactured-vs-rebuilt-4-reasons-why-a-reman-trans-is-your-best-option)
Its all cost driven, Im not going to double the cost of an already expensive repair by doing something that marginally increases the longevity of this car. I am likely going to detune the entire thing and go back to stock if the drivetrain is so dainty that the trans will only last 150k if any additional power is added to it. I really expected more from this car, from the local dealers and most of all from ford...
I think they have made a Chevy owner out of me. Maybe Jeep, I dunno.
You realize this trans is 1/2 GM, right?
Good luck with any Fiat.
Very well aware that its a multi platform trans, thanks... I obviously wouldn't get another car with this unit in it. And after dealing with the likes that staff my 2 local Ford dealers, id settle for a straight up branded Fiat before buying from a trash company like ford again.
AJP, it seems that everything on my car has been an "isolated problem". Purposely bought a very low mileage car with the extended warranty and it never paid out for a single repair. From the injector issue that they swore was a COP issue for 75k miles, only to admit "ya man that's an injector, we can take care of that for you, but the warranty just expired".. multiple issues with the active cruise control, dealer leaving the bumper unfastened, causing damage that they refused to fix, and now a transmission that has departed far to early. On what planet does 150k miles qualify as a normal lifespan?
Again, I'm just venting at the 4 figure unexpected repair bill I'm facing from a supposed reliable quality car, sorry that its toward you fine chaps
I wouldnt blame you one bit for not getting another ford after this....but as far as the question on what planet is 150k normal for a trans?..id say planet mopar lol....if the the trans lasts longer the head gaskets and piston rings surely wont lol...and on the GM's the electronics will malfunction