I posted dyno results (stock) and a couple of data logs in the Dyno Results forum, but haven't gotten any feedback regarding my questions on a power dip around 4800RPM. I'm hoping someone here can offer up some suggestions as to what might be going on and/or if this is normal with the OE tune. I've seen baseline runs for a 2014 XSport (which produced almost identical peak numbers), but it did not have a dip in the HP/torque numbers as mine does.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6919.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6919.0.html)
I've since added 170 t-stat, AEM filter, 1-step cooler plugs, and 3-bar map, and I'm running Torrie's V1 87-octane performance tune. I'll be sending him some data logs soon to start in on my tune revisions.
Thanks!
Most likely a loss of traction causing boost to be cut? IDK, AJP can shed more light on that for sure.
Hmm, I suppose that could be. Unfortunately, I don't have any data logs from the actual dyno pulls.
The graph I posted was on a Mustang dyno with linked rollers. All three pulls had drops in the same general area.
I also ran a day prior on an unlinked Dynojet inertia dyno in FWD only (tech pulled a bunch of underhood fuses to disable rear drive).
I suppose if the on-road data logs look normal, then I'll just move on. I'll be sure to data log any future Unleashed tunes on the dyno. Thanks, SHOdded. :)
Def datalog and post. There might be a factor unique to the XSport involved, although I'd think the 2013 MY code would be sorted by now ...
I've attached my first data log with the Unleashed 87 octane, 3bar, 170 tstat tune (V1). I'll be shooting this over to Torrie for review. This is 0-100MPH WOT with 87 octane fuel
First couple seconds are on a bit of a downhill, which is why (I suspect) the acceleration is a little steeper.
Mods are: AEM drop-in filter, 3 Bar MAP, 170 t-stat, NGK 6510 plugs
I don't know if my livelink is broke or what but it I don't see any WOT fuel enrichment?
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on October 24, 2016, 07:25:15 PM
I don't know if my livelink is broke or what but it I don't see any WOT fuel enrichment?
Which PID are you looking at? This is all new to me, so I'll probably ask some stupid questions along the way. ;)
The config file I'm running is direct from Torrie; all I did was add "Boost in PSI" to what he sent me.
Thanks for looking so quickly. :)
Lambse (commanded Lambda)
Measured AFR
You have no power enrichment happening AT ALL!
I would stay out of WOT until that is sorted.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on October 24, 2016, 07:34:01 PM
Lambse (commanded Lambda)
Measured AFR
You have no power enrichment happening AT ALL!
I would stay out of WOT until that is sorted.
Thanks, FoMoCoSHO! I will take it easy for sure. Do you happen to have a link to a data log that is a good example of what I should expect to see for these lambse vs measured afr values? I pulled up my data logs from the OE tune (4th gear pulls) and saw similar lambse cycles between 0.99 and 1.01 under WOT. Is this indicative of a separate underlying issue, since I had a similar reading from my OE tune?
On a side note, do you (or anyone else for that matter) have any suggested readings to learn up on this stuff?
Dont tuners aim for 0.8 at WOT
Quote from: SHOdded on October 24, 2016, 09:15:31 PM
Dont tuners aim for 0.8 at WOT
.8 is what is targeted in my tunes I believe. Stock targets even richer, I believe .75 or so, based on my stock logs.
.99-1.01 at WOT is very very wrong, on tip-out maybe, as it should return to stoich, after a brief lean period, but not on tip in/ WOT.
I've tested .80. .82, .85, and currently .83.
Both of mine were in the .76-.78 range on the stock tune.
Since it is apparently in your stock logs as well, it sounds like there is an underlying issue that is not related to the Unleashed tune.
It will be interesting to see if there is something wrong with your stock tune.
I would pump that thing full of 93 and baby it until you figure out whats going on.
Can you post the stock logs?
Quote from: MiWiAu on October 24, 2016, 09:03:55 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on October 24, 2016, 07:34:01 PM
Lambse (commanded Lambda)
Measured AFR
You have no power enrichment happening AT ALL!
I would stay out of WOT until that is sorted.
Thanks, FoMoCoSHO! I will take it easy for sure. Do you happen to have a link to a data log that is a good example of what I should expect to see for these lambse vs measured afr values? I pulled up my data logs from the OE tune (4th gear pulls) and saw similar lambse cycles between 0.99 and 1.01 under WOT. Is this indicative of a separate underlying issue, since I had a similar reading from my OE tune?
On a side note, do you (or anyone else for that matter) have any suggested readings to learn up on this stuff?
I'd start in the datalogging and fuels section.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on October 24, 2016, 09:59:43 PM
I've tested .80. .82, .85, and currently .83.
Both of mine were in the .76-.78 range on the stock tune.
Since it is apparently in your stock logs as well, it sounds like there is an underlying issue that is not tune related.
I would pump that thing full of 93 and baby it until you figure out whats going on.
Can you post the stock logs?
My first post here links back to my dyno sheet and two 4th gear logs with the OE tune. I just topped off with 87 today, so it will be end of the week before I can get 93 in it. :/
Quote from: MiWiAu on October 24, 2016, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on October 24, 2016, 09:59:43 PM
I've tested .80. .82, .85, and currently .83.
Both of mine were in the .76-.78 range on the stock tune.
Since it is apparently in your stock logs as well, it sounds like there is an underlying issue that is not tune related.
I would pump that thing full of 93 and baby it until you figure out whats going on.
Can you post the stock logs?
My first post here links back to my dyno sheet and two 4th gear logs with the OE tune. I just topped off with 87 today, so it will be end of the week before I can get 93 in it. :/
Your stock tune looks to be commanding .70
Pull it up in livelink and select uncheck all. Select RPM and remove ambient air and find the first pull and then hit the collapse y axis button until you can see the entire pull in the view. Collapse the x axis or just click on Rpm again to scale the X. Add Lambse bank 1 and measured afr bank 1 and you can see it clearly.
Lambse is what the ECM is commanding, measured is actual.
Were you WOT on that 4th gear pull?
Got it, FoMoCo. Thanks for the hand-holding. :) I failed to scale the OE data log and only picked up the initial portion that was reading 0.99-1.02. I see now, after scaling, the lambse came down on the OE tune under WOT, and the same is NOT true of the Unleashed tune. Now I feel better that my issue is (hopefully) with the custom tune file, and Torrie will get me straightened out.
Also, after flashing the Unleashed tune, I reset the KAM. Could this be causing my issues? I put just over 100 miles on it from KAM reset to the data log I took tonight, but I'm not sure how long it takes to repopulate pertinent values.
Quote from: MiWiAu on October 24, 2016, 10:35:08 PM
Got it, FoMoCo. Thanks for the hand-holding. :) I failed to scale the OE data log and only picked up the initial portion that was reading 0.99-1.02. I see now, after scaling, the lambse came down on the OE tune under WOT, and the same is NOT true of the Unleashed tune. Now I feel better that my issue is (hopefully) with the custom tune file, and Torrie will get me straightened out.
From my experiences with Torrie and the glitch prone SCT, I suspect this is an SCT glitch or a bad flash.
A couple times my car has ran like crap and returned less than ideal datalogs and reflashing the tune corrected the issue.
If you decide to try that make sure you keep an eye on KR, lambse, and measured AFR on the X4.
If you don't see lambse and measured AFR drop as soon as you crack the throttle, back out because there's something else amiss.
10-4. Would you recommend re-loading the .cef file Torrie sent me onto the X4, or does reflashing with the file already loaded generally cure the glitch/bad flash?
Thanks again for the guidance!
Quote from: MiWiAu on October 24, 2016, 10:59:25 PM
10-4. Would you recommend re-loading the .cef file Torrie sent me onto the X4, or does reflashing with the file already loaded generally cure the glitch/bad flash?
Thanks again for the guidance!
In my experience, just the reflash was needed.
My issues were annoying, yours are a bit more serious so you might want to redo the entire process, just to be sure you covered all the bases.
Has Torrie sent you a retune yet?
Ha, yeah. Tomorrow morning I'll reflash to stock, make sure the SCT is totally updated and upload the new tune that I just received from Torrie. He wants a short WOT run with the new file and said something is totally screwed up. I think his reply set a new word count record at 12! :)
Do you guys always reset your KAM after every new flash, and if so, do I need to wait for a bit before running WOT? As suggested, I'll definitely keep an eye on my lambse and age numbers.
With a KAM reset, the emissions monitors also get reset IIRC. If that is the case, use Torque Pro to your advantage, as it has a PID/graph for just that purpose. Once the monitors go all green, you may resume the normally scheduled WOTting ...
So this morning, I reflashed the OE tune to the XPL0DR. I then updated the X4 with device updater, performed a factory reset to clear all existing information, re-confirmed update, loaded the new tune from Torrie, and flashed it to the truck.
A short 0-60 WOT data log is attached. Lambse and AFR values seem much more reasonable than before (to my untrained eye), so one of the things above seems to have gotten me back on the right track.
On a side note, the vehicle quirks when a tune is being flashed kind of weird me out. I always wait until all the displays and interior lights turn off before starting the flash process. When I first loaded the original 87 tune from Torrie, the airbag light and the BLIS lights on the mirrors were illuminated. When I reflashed to OE this morning, the airbag light and my interior color accent lights came on. When I loaded the newest tune from Torrie, only the airbag light was on - nothing else. Bizarre.
Thanks again for the help in getting me straightened out!
Yeah, you have power enrichment now so that's all good.
They all seem to have their own patterns of quirks when being flashed and when the behavior changes, that is a sign the flash may not have been perfect.
Mine always turns on the blower fan and the windshield wipers activate.
A couple of times, that hasn't happened and the result was less than ideal.
I flashed another updated tune from Torrie when I left work, and I now feel that I'm approaching "scalded dog" territory. Crazy the improvements over my first quirky tune after only two flashes.
Quote from: MiWiAu on October 25, 2016, 08:16:21 PM
I flashed another updated tune from Torrie when I left work, and I now feel that I'm approaching "scalded dog" territory. Crazy the improvements over my first quirky tune after only two flashes.
Torrie advised rolling back to the prior tune due to higher knock rate. Looks like one and done on the 87 performance tune.
Boy, oh boy...
Since we got the 87 Performance tune sorted, I loaded the initial 87 Tow tune for the first time this AM. Data log attached.
Can someone explain to me what "good" vs "bad" knock retard readings would look like? I'm doing some e-tuning with Torrie, and one of the tunes he told me to roll back because "KR" was too high.
When looking at the two data logs in question, I was at +5 KR @ 60MPH on the 0-60 (87P) file and at the equivalent speed on the 0-100 file (87P1), I was at +2.75 KR.
It was recommended to roll back to the 0-60 (87P) tune, and I'm trying to understand why (since this appears to have higher KR than the other tune). Can someone please school me on KR? :)
EDIT: Removed 0-100MPH 87P1 data log and replaced with 0-60 87P1 log for more apples-to-apples comparison.
Fuel pump percentage > 100??? Weird ... Load is also weird ...
When you see positive knock numbers it is pulling timing because it is sensing incipient knock..
When you see negative knock numbers it is adding timing until it senses incipient knock...
The knock sensor just searches for the beginning or the start of knock... It adds or removes timing accordingly..
Negative knock reading = good
Positive knock reading = bad
Quote from: SHOdded on October 27, 2016, 07:17:20 PM
Fuel pump percentage > 100??? Weird ... Load is also weird ...
Ha, yeah, can't answer the question on the fuel pump percentage. It has been consistently reading over 100 ever since I started data logging with the SCT. I thought that was strange, too.
Is one load particularly weird over another? For the 0-100 pull I was on a stretch of road that wasn't very flat. I'm thinking that variation might be the uphill/downhill. I've since started running just 0-60 on a flatter road section for improved consistency. I can re-run the 87P1 tune 0-60 on a flat stretch, if that will help.
Quote from: StealBlueSho on October 27, 2016, 07:20:23 PM
When you see positive knock numbers it is pulling timing because it is sensing incipient knock..
When you see negative knock numbers it is adding timing until it senses incipient knock...
The knock sensor just searches for the beginning or the start of knock... It adds or removes timing accordingly..
Negative knock reading = good
Positive knock reading = bad
This was my impression based on the reading I had done, which is why I was confused that it was recommended to run the 87P tune over the 87P1 tune, since the 87P1 has much less KR at 60 mph.
Is there something else I'm missing on the 87P tune that would make it preferred over the 87P1? Thanks for the feedback, guys!
Lots of knock in both tunes... Like through the entire run..I wouldn't be happy with either tune...how are your plugs?
Quote from: StealBlueSho on October 27, 2016, 08:31:28 PM
Lots of knock in both tunes... Like through the entire run..I wouldn't be happy with either tune...how are your plugs?
I just went out and re-ran the 87P1 tune from 0-60 on a flat section of road (removed the 0-100 87P1 datalog). Under WOT, I peaked at +2.5.
Plugs are brand spanking new NGK (1 step cooler) that I received from Torrie. gapped at 0.030" per his recommendations.
It's a bit normal to have some knock readings... At least on the stock tune.... Dunno.. you guys already on winter blended gas? Might be some of it...
Quote from: StealBlueSho on October 27, 2016, 08:49:06 PM
It's a bit normal to have some knock readings... At least on the stock tune.... Dunno.. you guys already on winter blended gas? Might be some of it...
Hmm, good question. I'm not sure. It's about that time of year.
Does 87P mean you are tuning for 87 octane? I don't think there's been much success tuning with 87. The car from the factory is pretty close to on the edge for cheap fuel.
If 93, what brand? There are significant differences between top tier and no-name.
Quote from: sholxgt on October 27, 2016, 09:28:43 PM
Does 87P mean you are tuning for 87 octane? I don't think there's been much success tuning with 87. The car from the factory is pretty close to on the edge for cheap fuel.
If 93, what brand? There are significant differences between top tier and no-name.
Yeah, the 87P is an 87 octane "performance" tune. I'm also working with Torrie on an 87T "tow" tune. I have a 93P "performance" tune on deck once I finish up with the 87 tunes.
I primarily buy my fuel at Costco (87 and 93 top tier, high volume) or BP.
Quote from: StealBlueSho on October 27, 2016, 08:49:06 PM
It's a bit normal to have some knock readings... At least on the stock tune.... Dunno.. you guys already on winter blended gas? Might be some of it...
It looks like September 15 was the eligible sale date for winter blend fuels in 2016, and being in Wisconsin, I'm guessing that's what's been in my tank for some time.
I went back and looked at a 4th gear WOT pull on my OE tune with 87 octane and I went from +7.5 KR down to +5.0 over the course of the pull. Yikes. The stock plugs looked pretty good when I pulled them out @ ~32000 miles. No signs of peppering.
I'm going to pump in some 93 and see if that eliminates the knock, so I can try to get confirmation that fuel is the culprit.
If 93 doesnt help on an 87 tune, boy o boy :) You should PM AJP to see what he thinks. You said you normally get Top Tier fuel right? Might also occasionally run a bottle of HEET through to absorb any malingering moisture in the gas tank/fuel lines.
Quote from: SHOdded on October 28, 2016, 12:37:57 PM
If 93 doesnt help on an 87 tune, boy o boy :) You should PM AJP to see what he thinks. You said you normally get Top Tier fuel right? Might also occasionally run a bottle of HEET through to absorb any malingering moisture in the gas tank/fuel lines.
Good suggestions, SHOdded, thanks.
I always go for top tier. Usually (85% of time time) I get it at Costco, since they are very high turnover. If not there, I use BP that has decent turnover.
I've been running 87 exclusively since I bought it in mid-August, and I was planning to start working on the 93 tune once I got these tunes sorted.
I forget, but have you checked for a possible chafing knock sensor wire issue? Do you feel any loss of power when these knock events are happening?
Quote from: SHOdded on October 28, 2016, 12:57:28 PM
I forget, but have you checked for a possible chafing knock sensor wire issue? Do you feel any loss of power when these knock events are happening?
I have not checked for chafing wires yet - didn't realize that could be an issue. Does the chafing generally occur near the knock sensor and/or is there somewhere else specific in the harness to check?
With the OE tune, I recall some flat spots under WOT where power would level out, then pull again, but I'm not sure whether or not it coincided with a knock event. I haven't noticed this power delivery hiccup as much with the custom tunes, but I will mess some more this weekend and start paying closer attention for sure.
EDIT: Just found this thread regarding knock sensor chafing. I will check it out! http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,554.45.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,554.45.html)
Quote from: MiWiAu on October 28, 2016, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on October 28, 2016, 12:37:57 PM
If 93 doesnt help on an 87 tune, boy o boy :) You should PM AJP to see what he thinks. You said you normally get Top Tier fuel right? Might also occasionally run a bottle of HEET through to absorb any malingering moisture in the gas tank/fuel lines.
Good suggestions, SHOdded, thanks.
I always go for top tier. Usually (85% of time time) I get it at Costco, since they are very high turnover. If not there, I use BP that has decent turnover.
I've been running 87 exclusively since I bought it in mid-August, and I was planning to start working on the 93 tune once I got these tunes sorted.
Fuel turnover was always my barometer when choosing diesel for my cars/trucks, but it's not a measure for me with gasoline. I go for ones that have the best rated additive packages.
I'm a Costco fanatic, but I don't buy their fuel. I go for Chevron, BP, and Shell. Many on here swear by Shell giving them significantly different datalogs. If you have one nearby, it might be worth a tank to see if you get different results.
Quote from: sholxgt on October 28, 2016, 01:11:14 PMI'm a Costco fanatic, but I don't buy their fuel. I go for Chevron, BP, and Shell. Many on here swear by Shell giving them significantly different datalogs. If you have one nearby, it might be worth a tank to see if you get different results.
No Chevron stations around here. There are a few Shell stations, I could top off at to see if it resolves my problem; unfortunately, they're all pretty out-of-the-way from my normal routine to use regularly. BPs are everywhere around here.
I'm definitely curious about the possibility of chafed knock sensor wires; at the very least it sounds like it would behoove me to take some preventive measures. I'm going to check this first before I start changing my fuel, so I'm not changing too many variables at once.
Thanks guys! I'll keep you posted on what I find.
I have found Shell 93 to be superior to bp & exxon 93 since the nitro+ formulation came out. And if it helps an NA motor, it should really help a boosted one. Good luck, am following with interest.
I'm a huge Shell 93+Nitro fanboi because of its data log proven knock resistance vs Speedway 93.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on October 28, 2016, 08:50:04 PM
I'm a huge Shell 93+Nitro fanboi because of its data log proven knock resistance vs Speedway 93.
X2^^^^
See if your KR drops with increased octane. I was fighting high KR in the stock tune. AJP gave me a tune with much less advance than stock so we could sort it out. Recently, I added octane and the KR didn't change. It also was very inconsistent and moved +4 degrees run to run with 96 octane and less advance than stock with only
12 psi of boost and a good 0.8 AFR. That pretty much said it was falsely detecting knock. It was just way too inconsistent. I doctored up the knock sensor wires and it got more consistent, but still seemed to be false. It would pull a bunch of timing but add it all back in before the pull was over. It would always add advance until I went WOT. Anyway, we added degrees back in the tune and the KR didn't change, so I still have some false stuff. AJP has been great helping me get this sorted out. The false KR sucks though because it is tying our hands a little with tuning. As you saw, Torrie used your logged KR to determine how much advance he could put on your tune. Ideally, you would have 0 KR, which means no knock detected but the tune is also aggressive enough that it doesn't keep adding advance with negative KR numbers. My problem is that I can't trust my KR, which sucks, so I just have to keep a "mild" tune. It still picked up almost 8 tenths in the 1/4 and 4mph! Maybe not so "mild." Let us know what your KR does after putting 93 in it. I did all of my logs on the same stretch of road for consistency. If you can, make a log, fill up, then do another log right away. That way the weather and temperature are the same between the two logs and the only change is the fuel. Post those two logs if you can get them. I am very curious to see them. Zip tie your knock sensor wires first as shown in posts in this forum.
I'll be working through knock sensor wiring and fuel today. Thanks guys!
Quote from: MiWiAu on October 29, 2016, 11:33:55 AM
I'll be working through knock sensor wiring and fuel today. Thanks guys!
Another good way to log, which is how I did all my tuning with my Stang, is to just do a 3rd gear pull. Your tune needs to allow you to hold it in 3rd at low rpm though, which my AJP tune does. I do both a WOT run from 0 to 90+mph and a 3rd gear pull from 2500rpm to redline.
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Quote from: 16MagSport on October 29, 2016, 11:45:40 AM
Quote from: MiWiAu on October 29, 2016, 11:33:55 AM
I'll be working through knock sensor wiring and fuel today. Thanks guys!
Another good way to log, which is how I did all my tuning with my Stang, is to just do a 3rd gear pull. Your tune needs to allow you to hold it in 3rd at low rpm though, which my AJP tune does. I do both a WOT run from 0 to 90+mph and a 3rd gear pull from 2500rpm to redline.
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Crap, I didn't see this until after I collected logs.
Secondly, I hope I didn't royally eff up my truck. Just after getting in from my last pull, literally two seconds after pulling into my driveway, the engine light started flashing, and the truck started idling really rough. GREAT. No DTC.
I shut off the car, then restarted it, and it cranked for 5 seconds before it started. Still idled rough. Let it run for about 20 seconds, then I got P0302 - Cylinder 2 misfire code, which I believe is the middle cylinder nearest the firewall. I'm going to pull the plug and see if it looks melted.
In the meantime, here are some data logs to look at:
87NoKnockFix is a new baseline run from this morning before I did anything.
87KnockFix is after I taped up the knock sensor wires on the driver's side. No chafing was evident.
91KnockFix is after I added 18.003 gallons of 91 no ethanol BP fuel. I thought the station had 93, but when I got there it was 91. I was 11 miles to E, so I didn't have enough gas to get anywhere else. I burned just shy of 1 gallon of the fresh fuel before taking my data log.
To me, I don't see a substantial difference between the three, and the big jumps in KR seem to coincide with shifting.
Sounds like Ford needs to issue a recalibration/new strategy, if not a redesigned part.
Sounds like a fuel injector and/or valve cover leak. MiWiAu. Dealer visit likely.
Quote from: SHOdded on October 29, 2016, 04:09:15 PM
Sounds like a fuel injector and/or valve cover leak. MiWiAu. Dealer visit likely.
Yep, methinks so. I also threw code P00C6 (Fuel Rail Pressure Too Low - Engine Cranking Bank 1), and there is white fuel vapor coming out of the exhaust. Same exact symptoms as Tomc: http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2650.0 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2650.0)
Service department at my dealer closed 2 minutes before I called over there, and nobody was left to answer my call. :( Looks like I'll be getting a tow on Monday morning. According to the 2013 warranty information, it looks like injectors are covered under 7yr/70,000 mile emission long term defects warranty. Hopefully I'm reading that right, and I can get this thing covered.
I've already put my 2-bar MAP back in and reflashed the stock tune.
Couple of follow-up questions for you guys:
1) Can a custom tune cause this type of failure, or is this purely a coincidence?
2) What are the chances this injector being on its way out is causing my KR readings?
It's amazing to me that not 30 minutes after "treating" my truck to premium no ethanol fuel that an injector gets stuck. Good stuff. :)
A tune can cause a multitude of problems....hard to pin it to anything at this point including an injector...im not sure the ford strategy has anything to do with it
Im not sure a leaky valve cover would cause this
At a glance on those logs I didn't see anything bad that happened. But I didn't see desired TIP or Boost that was all over the place. And the torque reductions on shifts have been eliminated. You didn't log torque source to confirm that but I don't see the dramatic spark retard at shifts which is the main way that tq reduction happens
If you log torque source you will see a value of 7 during an up or downshift.
And even at what appears to be stock boost levels your throttle is not open fully.
Do you know exactly what benefit you are getting from the tune? An explanation would be fair.
Quote from: AJP turbo on October 29, 2016, 09:54:21 PM
At a glance on those logs I didn't see anything bad that happened. But I didn't see desired TIP or Boost that was all over the place. And the torque reductions on shifts have been eliminated. You didn't log torque source to confirm that but I don't see the dramatic spark retard at shifts which is the main way that tq reduction happens
If you log torque source you will see a value of 7 during an up or downshift.
And even at what appears to be stock boost levels your throttle is not open fully.
Do you know exactly what benefit you are getting from the tune? An explanation would be fair.
Thanks, AJP. I agree, an explanation would be fair. I sent Torrie a note Thursday evening, but haven't yet heard back. I'm trying to be patient, and I really appreciate you guys helping me try to fill in the blanks in the meantime. I figured I'd give him the rest of the weekend to respond, since I can't drive my car now anyways.
I'll have to check the logs later. Use AJP. Nice safe tune that still performs much better than stock. Read my post about 2016 Explorer with high knock.
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Boy, oh boy, it must be Halloween or something. :)
Had my car towed to the dealer (never been there) on Sunday. Left a voicemail and e-mail with the service manager, since the drop was after hours to give him a heads up. My wife and I carpooled in her Mercury Milan this morning. By 10:30 AM, I still had not heard anything, so I called and spoke with a service advisor. Apparently there was a fire wherever Ford houses their main dealer server(s), and they had to cut power, so sounds like many of the dealer networks were down today.
So, I left work this afternoon to pick up my wife and there was a puddle of motor oil under her car. Sure as $hit it was all over the fan, frame, air dam, etc. What a mess. Looked like it was coming from the oil filter (which uses a cartridge filter with a plastic cover sealed by o-rings). I checked the oil, and it was a half a quart low, so I decided to drive it. Picked up my wife and went to the dealer a quarter mile down the road from her work where I'd just had my truck towed the day before.
Her leaking car gave me a great opportunity to meet the service manager and mingle with three service advisors (they werent too busy today). Luckily, the filter cap was a little loose. They ordered a spare (original plastic cap was pretty chewed up), and I'll go back tomorrow to have it replaced. They spent an hour checking it out, making sure it wasn't something else leaking, tightened up the old filter cap and said to keep an eye on the oil levels until they can replace it tomorrow. They even washed all the oil spray out from under the car and inside the engine bay. No charge! :)
To the truck: they confirmed it was a stuck fuel injector (I haven't asked yet which one). They have parts coming tomorrow and said it should be back together by Wednesday at the latest. The SM said he's fairly certain it will be covered under either the PT, Emissoins, or Long Term Defects warranty, but they need their network computers to come online to verify for certain.
I was there for just about an hour and a half this afternoon, and on my way out the door, the SM stopped me, called me by name, and wanted to make sure I was taken care of. Great experience so far, and hopefully I'll be back on the road soon.
Happy Halloween! :)
As long as it all turns up roses! :thumb:
an hour to essentially top off the oil an wash the bay? No wonder you cant get a hold of anyone!
Quote from: J-Will on November 01, 2016, 09:41:30 AM
an hour to essentially top off the oil an wash the bay? No wonder you cant get a hold of anyone!
Haha. Well, I had asked them to be thorough to make sure something else wasn't leaking. They also spent some time tracking down a replacement oil filter cap that was local, so they could get it replaced quickly.
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hope they get it all done for you, thats the important part
thanks for the heads up on the potential service delays stemming from the data center fire
Sorry to hear about your rides. I hope it all gets taken care off. It doesn't seem like the injector was an issue during you log since the measured AFR for bank 1 tracks bank 2's AFR and it is at a good ratio. The only thing good about this tune that I can see is the AFR. The desired and measured boost are all over the place and at a low level, and the throttle is all over the place too.
Next time, log Accel Pedal Volts and Intake Air Temp 2. Compare Accel Pedal Volts to throttle angle actual and you'll see that the throttlebody is moving a lot differently than your foot. WOT is 4 volts and 82 degrees on mine. It really looks like the only thing this tune did is adjust your AFR to a better 0.8 lambda and removed the timing retard on the shifts. I would put the torque management back in on the shifts to see if that drops your KR down on the shift. Mine was doing the same and that is where I could hear the pinging with the *** tune. It had audible detonation on the shift with the *** tune. That tune pegged my 2-bar though, so he had a lot of boost commanded.
The AJP tune I have now is great. No detonation, over 7 tenths and 4mph faster than stock in the 1/4 mile, and that is still retaining the torque management on the shifts. Throttle stays pegged at 82 degrees, AFR is at 0.8, Boost is flat and comes on early, all good things!
One thing to note though is that you logged an 87 octane tune, right? I am assuming Torrie would do something with boost if you told him to do a 91 octane tune. I do still think you are getting false knock since you advance was pretty low on the 91 fuel and it still got a lot of KR in the middle of 3rd, which is what mine does. My last log also had KR jump up at 5100rpm in 3rd like in your 91 octane log. The most I saw was a KR of 3.5 which gave me 10.5 degrees of advance at 5100rpm in 3rd. My IAT's were up at 130 degrees and my boost was a little over 13psi. Your boost was only at 11psi and your timing was almost the same with 11 degrees advance after KR pulled 3.75 degrees. I think these damn things are just noisy in the middle of 3rd. Yours put the advance back in as the rpm climbed, which is the same thing mine did.
I think you have some false knock and AJP is familiar with this since he has been dealing with mine. I highly recommend you give him a shot. His Rev 4 tune that he sent me will probably be a good 87 octane tune, and then the Rev 5 is a good 91 octane tune. He may want to turn the boost down a little though for 87 octane. Maybe my Rev 2 tune would be a good 87 octane, which was still 4 tenths quicker than stock in the 1/4. He also has a trick to help out these vehicles that suffer from false knock. I promise you won't be sorry if you use his tune.
AJP, let me know if I can post a Rev 5 standard KR log for him to see.
Good Luck!
^I Highly recommend you listen to this guy, AJP has some magic in his tunes! (Not actually Magic, but he knows his stuff!). We are on Rev7 on my SHO, and at this point I have very minimal to no KR, when on stock/my first few revs I had some false KR. I did the Knock Sensor fix on the driver side sensor, wrapped the wires, taped it all up, and ziptied, and switch to a better gas as well. The last 3rd gear pull I did,(20-~90) and last wot(0-~90) both had 0KR, and we are starting to work on an Ethanol Tune.
For sure, if anyone is on the fence, get an AJP tune!
I don't know why the forum puts stars in for the tune I was talking about that gave me issues. It was a *** tune.
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Quote from: 16MagSport on November 01, 2016, 07:04:18 PM
I don't know why the forum puts stars in for the tune I was talking about that gave me issues. It was a *** tune.
Hmm, I see "*** tune" in your last post, I don't see any stars.
At any rate, thanks for the detailed post! I will take your recommendations under advisement when I get back to logging!
If AJP lets you post your data log, I'd be really interested to see it. I'm trying to figure out what "normal" or "good" looks like, so I can understand this stuff a bit better.
I got confirmation from the dealer today that they are covering the injector under warranty (mostly). There was fuel in the oil, so they said it needs an oil change, but the warranty only covers the OE oil, so I had to drop off some new Amsoil this afternoon. Still better than the parts/labor on an injector change, so I won't complain. ;)
Great news MiWiAu! Very glad it's working out. I seriously doubt any issue was tune related and Unleashed has a great reputation on multiple platforms.
AJP has an even better one for this platform on this forum. That says a lot about his abilities.
Yup, getting Brad to tune your car is worth every penny...twice over..
Quote from: StealBlueSho on November 01, 2016, 07:33:12 PM
Yup, getting Brad to tune your car is worth every penny...twice over..
With his knowledge and the amount of work he puts into each Rev/checking each data log, I would say he is about as good as a Dyno Tune. Imagine if we set him up with a Dyno (Kikstarter anyone?)
A little side note to the moderators:
If you want to merge this thread with my "2013 XSport Tuning" thread (or vice versa) to clean up the forum, feel free.
I had originally posted a question to better understand KR, but there's a lot of cross-over and talk specific to my vehicle. In retrospect, I should have just kept it all together.
Thanks again to everyone for all the recommendations and analysis!! More to come, I'm sure! :)
Mikey
Got my truck back from the dealer late this morning. I've got a full tank of 91 that I'm going to run through it on the OE 2-bar tune. I hope to be back in the tuning saddle next week. :)
That's great that you have it back already. If you can, get a log of your stock tune on 91 octane. I would love to see that and see how much KR your stock tune gets on 91 compared to what mine was doing.
Quote from: MiWiAu on November 02, 2016, 01:10:48 PM
Got my truck back from the dealer late this morning. I've got a full tank of 91 that I'm going to run through it on the OE 2-bar tune. I hope to be back in the tuning saddle next week. :)
:thumb:
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 02, 2016, 02:16:28 PM
That's great that you have it back already. If you can, get a log of your stock tune on 91 octane. I would love to see that and see how much KR your stock tune gets on 91 compared to what mine was doing.
Ooh, good call. Will be interesting to compare to my 87 pull as well (which had +4.5 to +7.5 KR on a 4th gear pull)
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I'll bet you are better now since you secured the knock sensor wires. If it is like mine, it will now be more consistent and won't jump up to 7. I also saw 7's on the stock tune.
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 02, 2016, 02:42:23 PM
I'll bet you are better now since you secured the knock sensor wires. If it is like mine, it will now be more consistent and won't jump up to 7. I also saw 7's on the stock tune.
Post #53 I posted 87 octane logs pre and post knock wire fix. I didn't see a big difference, between the two, but I'm sure it won't hurt my consistency moving forward. :)
Quote from: MiWiAu on November 02, 2016, 02:54:30 PM
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 02, 2016, 02:42:23 PM
I'll bet you are better now since you secured the knock sensor wires. If it is like mine, it will now be more consistent and won't jump up to 7. I also saw 7's on the stock tune.
Post #53 I posted 87 octane logs pre and post knock wire fix. I didn't see a big difference, between the two, but I'm sure it won't hurt my consistency moving forward. :)
Did you do a KAM reset after the knock sensor fix? I saw negligible results after the fix before doing so, and on a slightly hot tune. Once the trims all set after the KAM reset saw much better KR with the same hot tune.
I have since gone to an E20 tune, and saw 0 KR on both a 3rd gear and 0-90 WOT pull (E + knock sensor fix FTW).
If you haven't done a KAM reset, its under special functions on the tuner, just drive a bit after to reset all the trims before logging anything. Also a good idea when switching fuels to do this, moreso when going to a worse fuel (93 + E to just 93, or just 91, etc.)
Quote from: derfdog15 on November 02, 2016, 03:19:06 PM
Did you do a KAM reset after the knock sensor fix?
Hmm. Nope. The only KAM reset I did was after I installed my 3-Bar MAP and loaded my Unleashed tune. It's raining here tonight, so not a great time to go data log, but I will get the KAM reset and re-log my OE tune before the end of the week.
I feel like I need to put together a definitive how-to guide for EcoBoost tuning: tuning steps and priorities, KAM resets and when to do them, what channels to data log and why, how to perform your data logging pulls, how to interpret your data and what to look for, etc, etc. I've been picking up a lot of pieces here and there as the process moves forward, I just wish I had a good read to get a solid foundation on the basics.
I guess the simplest breakdown would be:
stock tune - datalog
make 1 change - datalog
perform KAM reset - datalog
rinse & repeat. Highly tedious, but would net you the max data. Problem is being relatively consistent with environmental variables between runs. If you can manage that, that would be super awesome!
Quote from: SHOdded on November 02, 2016, 07:20:41 PM
I guess the simplest breakdown would be:
stock tune - datalog
make 1 change - datalog
perform KAM reset - datalog
rinse & repeat. Highly tedious, but would net you the max data. Problem is being relatively consistent with environmental variables between runs. If you can manage that, that would be super awesome!
Yeah, changing one variable at a time and trying to best maintain environmental consistency makes sense, SHOdded. That's what I've been attempting to do, but I did not take the KAM reset into account.
I guess I was unclear on when the KAM should be reset. I've seen some posts suggesting that it's not really needed, others say only with big changes, and the high level break-down you provided leads me to believe that I should reset the KAM with every change. Considering it's not all that difficult to do, I will just plan to follow your outline above and datalog a change both before and after a KAM reset.
#GoCubs #LeadoffHR
Quote from: MiWiAu on November 02, 2016, 08:07:59 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on November 02, 2016, 07:20:41 PM
I guess the simplest breakdown would be:
stock tune - datalog
make 1 change - datalog
perform KAM reset - datalog
rinse & repeat. Highly tedious, but would net you the max data. Problem is being relatively consistent with environmental variables between runs. If you can manage that, that would be super awesome!
Yeah, changing one variable at a time and trying to best maintain environmental consistency makes sense, SHOdded. That's what I've been attempting to do, but I did not take the KAM reset into account.
I guess I was unclear on when the KAM should be reset. I've seen some posts suggesting that it's not really needed, others say only with big changes, and the high level break-down you provided leads me to believe that I should reset the KAM with every change. Considering it's not all that difficult to do, I will just plan to follow your outline above and datalog a change both before and after a KAM reset.
#GoCubs #LeadoffHR
I do the KAM reset when changing fuel, or making a hardware change (ie. installing any thing: CAI, Exhaust, 3 bar, etc., or chaging to a different octane/E mix). I did one when going from my 93 tune to my E20 tune, since the fuel trims and stoich point will be different, and are set different in the tune. If I revert back to 93 for a road trip I would do one again. If I went to a larger mix, I would do one.
May not be necessary to do one every single change, though it would for sure be the most effective method.
I think this is a question for AJP. I agree with derfdog. A fuel change if it includes different E content and any hardware change should call for a KAM reset. Otherwise, you are just throwing away all of the corrections that the computer has already learned it needs to do. I think that most tune changes would not affect the KAM. Now, that is not true for my 93 Mustang where the changes I would make would be to injector slope/MAF curve, etc. I would need to reset to make sure my new adjustments were good. I also made it so it would not apply its learning at WOT. It was too far from stock to trust that the part throttle learning would apply to WOT.
These things run off of a wideband, so it should get really good info to build up the KAM. It knows what it needed to change to get the AFR that was commanded. Even if the tune commands a different AFR, the corrections it needed to make before should still apply. I know there is way more to these new systems though, so I could be missing something.
Does anyone know if these run closed loop at WOT? I was told they ran open loop at WOT and that did not make sense to me since they have a wideband. My logs show that the actual AFR is damn close to the commanded, so however they do it, it is working pretty well.
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 03, 2016, 10:49:11 AM
I think this is a question for AJP. I agree with derfdog. A fuel change if it includes different E content and any hardware change should call for a KAM reset. Otherwise, you are just throwing away all of the corrections that the computer has already learned it needs to do. I think that most tune changes would not affect the KAM. Now, that is not true for my 93 Mustang where the changes I would make would be to injector slope/MAF curve, etc. I would need to reset to make sure my new adjustments were good. I also made it so it would not apply its learning at WOT. It was too far from stock to trust that the part throttle learning would apply to WOT.
These things run off of a wideband, so it should get really good info to build up the KAM. It knows what it needed to change to get the AFR that was commanded. Even if the tune commands a different AFR, the corrections it needed to make before should still apply. I know there is way more to these new systems though, so I could be missing something.
Does anyone know if these run closed loop at WOT? I was told they ran open loop at WOT and that did not make sense to me since they have a wideband. My logs show that the actual AFR is damn close to the commanded, so however they do it, it is working pretty well.
I believe they run closed loop, or at least closed to it from 30 seconds or so after a cold start until shut off. I mention the fuel mix change being the only time I would KAM reset, as that is the only time that AJP has asked me to do so. We nailed down my 93 tune, and were starting on the E20 tune. When he sent the first E20 rev, he asked that I do a KAM reset, and make sure to drive ~10 minutes or 7 miles at least before logging.
There could be other reasons to do one, but this is the only time he has asked for one. The KAM reset I did after the Knock Sensor wire fix was for my own comfort, as the spark tables would have learned based on the false KR, and have lower values throughout, which I didn't want.
These cars are extremely smart, and Ford has some very nice controls strategies in place. The widebands definitely do their jobs as well. Its a shame OEMs didn't start using widebands as OE until this late in the game, or we would probably see better gains on tune only out of older NA/Turbo/SC cars as well.
Yes, closed loop even at WOT. Open loop only at startup and fuel decel cutoff.
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 02, 2016, 02:16:28 PM
That's great that you have it back already. If you can, get a log of your stock tune on 91 octane. I would love to see that and see how much KR your stock tune gets on 91 compared to what mine was doing.
Hey 16MS,
Hope this helps for your reference. Today I took a data log of my OE tune with 91 octane. I did both a 4th gear pull (for comparison to my stock tune on 87 octane) and a 0-90 pull. Unfortunately, I don't have a 0-90 pull on 87 octane with my OE tune.
Also note, this won't be 100% apples to apples. The 87 log here was a totally stock truck. The 91 log has a 170 t-stat, cooler plugs, and an AEM filter.
It looks like my peak KR on 91 was slightly lower than 87, but still fairly high overall.
EDIT: For completeness, I've added two 87 octane runs that have the same updates (plugs, t-stat, air filter) as the 91 octane octane runs attached (runs were taken a day apart under fairly similar weather conditions).
The "OETune_87Stock_4thGear.csv" file was before I taped up and secured knock sensor wiring. All other runs have the same knock wire modification in place.
Good stuff! Thanks for taking the time :thumb:
Quote from: SHOdded on November 05, 2016, 05:31:21 PM
Good stuff! Thanks for taking the time :thumb:
No problem! I'm going to work with my new tuner ( ;) ) on another 87 and 91 tune. We're going to start first with the 87. Tomorrow, I'll get one more OE tune log with 87 for comparison and update my last post. This will give an apples to apples with same tstat, plugs, and filter.
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I like your methodical approach, and good luck with the new tuner. Hope to break new ground for the XSport!
Thanks Mikey. Yes, that does help. It makes me think that mine is normal now because your log looks really similar to my stock logs. I can't believe how much fuel the stock tune puts in half way through 3rd gear. That is such a RICH mixture! It hits 9.7 AFR, crazy. I was thinking that I could do the thermostat and colder plugs, but it doesn't look like that helped the KR. I think these things are just sensing a lot of false knock. I am curious to see what your new tuner thinks after you log his tunes. Mine does the same thing where it is sensing knock in the middle of 3rd and then starts ramping advance back in. Your 3rd gear had the KR jump around 5k rpm and so did your 4th gear log. Something is noisy at 5k rpm. Mine is the same, but it is not seeing KR that high anymore, even with a more aggressive tune. I peaked at 3.5KR at that point with more boost and higher temps. It has to be false knock. Your 87 log in 4th had KR peak at 5k rpm also. It was only 2 degree more than your 91 with colder plugs. If it was real, the 4 points of octane and colder plugs would drop the KR a lot more than that. Was that 87 log also before you doctored up the knock sensor wires?
My AJP tunes look great. I forgot how f'd up the stock tunes look since I have been looking at my AJP tunes lately.
Good luck and keep us posted on your experience. You will feel a HUGE improvement off the line, especially if you just stall it up to 2k on the launch. I picked up 2.5 tenths in the 60ft, which is huge!
Oh, and by the way, you are crazy. LOL Do a 3rd gear run so you don't have to go so fast and be WOT for so long. You must have a lot better road than I do. Your WOT run in 4th is long and you get going pretty fast. My tune allows me to put it in 3rd with the paddles in Sport mode at 2k rpm and go WOT and it won't downshift.
Quote from: SHOdded on November 05, 2016, 05:49:05 PM
I like your methodical approach, and good luck with the new tuner. Hope to break new ground for the XSport!
I do a lot of testing at work, so I'm no stranger to trying to minimize variables. It's definitely extra work, but hopefully it will save some time down the road when troubleshooting any issues or anomalies. :)
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 06, 2016, 01:43:57 PM
Was that 87 log also before you doctored up the knock sensor wires?
Oh, and by the way, you are crazy. LOL Do a 3rd gear run so you don't have to go so fast and be WOT for so long. You must have a lot better road than I do. Your WOT run in 4th is long and you get going pretty fast. My tune allows me to put it in 3rd with the paddles in Sport mode at 2k rpm and go WOT and it won't downshift.
Yes, the "87 Stock 4th Gear" file was prior to taping up the knock sensor wires. I went back to the old post (#88) and added this note, along with two more runs of 87 octane with the same plug and tstat mods.
My "logging" road sucks! Haha. It's just over a half mile long with a kink in the middle. It's right next to a conservation area, so there's a lot of tall grass that make it a mostly blind corner. There's still time to shut down if there's a problem, but not much room for error. I'm also in deer country. I tried taking one log a few weeks ago at dusk - never again.
The only reason I started with 4th gear runs is because that what gear I was running when I did my baseline dyno runs (I mistakenly thought 4th gear was 1:1, doh!). When I ran on the dyno, I had a weird dip in the power band, and I was trying to see if anyone could offer any insight as to what might be causing the dip. Unfortunately, I did not take any data logs while on the dyno, so I went out later and ran on the road to see if it was showing up there.
Anyways, long story short, I was pretty relieved when AJP said I only needed to do 3rd gear WOT and 1-3rd gear pulls. I have a different road that I'll be using for my pulls with him, since I don't need as much space. It's much more open, and I feel a lot better about making runs there.
I need to find a new road. Just got a damn ticket!! I did a WOT 1-3 up to 90mph, hit the brakes and went around a gradual corner, got to the next straight and put it in 3rd and ran from 35mph up to 90mph. I hit the brakes and got down to the speed limit before cars got to me that came around the next corner way down the road on the other side of the straight, but the 3rd car back was a CHP and had his lights on before I even got to him. I just pulled over and waited for him to make his U-turn. I am so disappointed in myself. I knew this was the wrong time of day to go out there and I even had a bad feeling about it. I almost turned down a different road, but I wanted to use the same stretch all my others were on. I'm a dumbass! I knew better!! I have made so many passes there. It was just a matter of time. At least I wasn't doing 120mph in the Mustang! He did get me at 90mph though. That will be expensive and the wife is not happy...
Aww, bummer, man! Sorry to hear that. :(
I always make a spotting pass down and back, but that doesn't cover me for oncoming traffic. I thought about parking a spotter at the end of the road, but it sounded like too much work. Perhaps it's worth it.
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Spotter. Great idea! Next time I'll do the spotting pass and then drop my kid off in the winery parking lot on the other side of that turn that is after the straightaway. If I am listening to them on the phone with the hands free, they could give me a warning if a CHP is coming.
Yeah, I am pretty bummed but I new it was just a matter of time. I have been pushing my luck lately. I got some good info today. I had Brad make some big changes. Might use it for a race tune if he is willing to bump up the advance a little with the disclaimer that I will run some race gas in it to bump octane up.
Ouch....i put a lot of effort into finding my special logging spots...ive done so many logs that would warrant loss of license many times over
This is one of very few reasons dyno tuning is good...another is cam shaft and cam timing tuning which most ecoboosters arent doing....another is spark tuning on N/A engines...those are about the only reasons i would prefer dyno tuning
Yep, I messed up. This is a very Safe road to log with two long straights, wide shoulders, and no driveways or connecting roads. It is also close to the house, which is nice. BUT, unless I do the spotter thing, I won't know that a CHP isn't oncoming around the corner at the end of the straight. I use less than half of that straight to do the log and have time to slow waaaay down before I get to a car that comes around the corner, but the damn radar works from too far away and even when they are three cars behind the lead car. It can still get oncoming traffic. That is cheating!! I usually pick a better day and time of day that has nobody out there.
At least he was nice and it has been years since I got a ticket. Still sucks though! Now I will be afraid to use the power of the hot rod Explorer.
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 06, 2016, 09:07:17 PM
Spotter. Great idea! Next time I'll do the spotting pass and then drop my kid off in the winery parking lot on the other side of that turn that is after the straightaway.
He/she is not a drinker yet, right? ;) If I dropped my wife at the winery to spot for me, looking out for the popo would be the last thing on her mind! LMAO
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Lol! Nope, 10 year old son and 13 year old daughter. The popo asked me why I was going so fast. I told him I was testing it for the races. Lol. He didn't get it because his intercepter Ex didn't have the EB.
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Anybody know how to reset OAR? I changed over from 87 to 91, and I can't get the OAR to reset to zero. I tried a KAM reset, reflashing my custom tune, flashing to stock (and back to custom tune), and none of these result in my OAR changing.
Is my only option to just drive it? If so, how long until OAR renormalizes to the new fuel? Thanks!
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What is OAR at now?
Quality 91 should show -1
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 14, 2016, 12:43:48 AM
What is OAR at now?
Quality 91 should show -1
I was at -0.33 with 87. After about 20 miles of driving with premium, it's down to -0.76, but it continues to move toward -1 and doesn't seem to have settled yet. I'm currently using a blend of 87 and 93 to achieve 91 octane target. 91 is scarce where I live, but I want to be covered when I travel.
I found a tip on the ST forum that suggested a light load uphill around 4lb boost to relearn faster. I'll try that on my way to work today.
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Quote from: MiWiAu on November 14, 2016, 07:25:59 AM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 14, 2016, 12:43:48 AM
What is OAR at now?
Quality 91 should show -1
I was at -0.33 with 87. After about 20 miles of driving with premium, it's down to -0.76, but it continues to move toward -1 and doesn't seem to have settled yet. I'm currently using a blend of 87 and 93 to achieve 91 octane target. 91 is scarce where I live, but I want to be covered when I travel.
I found a tip on the ST forum that suggested a light load uphill around 4lb boost to relearn faster. I'll try that on my way to work today.
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Well YMMV but on my car if I can get 4 degrees of KR advance for a couple of seconds with light throttle it will typically pop right up (or down I guess) to a more negative value. So yes a couple of light pulls with a little bit of boost and timing advance without it generating any knock should get you what you need.
FYI, mine has always measured -0.96 with 91 octane. When I added 96 and 100 at the track to get me a 93-95 octane mix, it still measured -0.96 so I think that is maxed for mine.
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 14, 2016, 11:13:09 AM
FYI, mine has always measured -0.96 with 91 octane. When I added 96 and 100 at the track to get me a 93-95 octane mix, it still measured -0.96 so I think that is maxed for mine.
My SCT Pegs/maxes out at -.96 as well. I think it is possible to play with the limits of the value within a tune for finer readings/readings past -1 though if so desired.
Thanks guys. Last time I ran a tank of premium (91 no ethanol from a station way out of town), I was at -0.98 to -0.96. When I switched back to 87 to start my new tunes with AJP, the OAR dropped pretty quickly (within 20 miles) and settled at -0.33 through 2 tanks of fuel. It just seems to be taking a lot longer to adjust this time.
On a side note, I was under the impression that OAR was stored in KAM and that clearing it should reset OAR to a default value. This is not the case with my X4, since my OAR does not change after a KAM reset. I sent a note to SCT yesterday asking if the X4 should be capable of resetting this value, and they replied saying I needed to set up a remote support session to look into my issue (no definitive answer given). I won't be able to call during their support hours until tomorrow morning, but I'll let you know what they say.
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Quote from: MiWiAu on November 14, 2016, 11:23:57 AM
Thanks guys. Last time I ran a tank of premium (91 no ethanol from a station way out of town), I was at -0.98 to -0.96. When I switched back to 87 to start my new tunes with AJP, the OAR dropped pretty quickly (within 20 miles) and settled at -0.33 through 2 tanks of fuel. It just seems to be taking a lot longer to adjust this time.
On a side note, I was under the impression that OAR was stored in KAM and that clearing it should reset OAR to a default value. This is not the case with my X4, since my OAR does not change after a KAM reset. I sent a note to SCT yesterday asking if the X4 should be capable of resetting this value, and they replied saying I needed to set up a remote support session to look into my issue (no definitive answer given). I won't be able to call during their support hours until tomorrow morning, but I'll let you know what they say.
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OAR should be a KAM item, however this was noted a few days ago in a SHO related post as well (can't remember the topic or I would point you to it).
The speculation was that the change to PCM/ECU between the '12 and older SHO vs. the '13+ SHO may be the reason, as on the older SHO the KAM reset (and even just general tune flashes) reset OAR. On the 13+ many people (myself included) noted that it did not change, with a reflash or a KAM reset.
It would be awesome if SCT found a way to do it on the 13+ SHO.
I assume the XSport shares similar changes/behaviors
Quote from: derfdog15 on November 14, 2016, 11:21:28 AM
Quote from: 16MagSport on November 14, 2016, 11:13:09 AM
FYI, mine has always measured -0.96 with 91 octane. When I added 96 and 100 at the track to get me a 93-95 octane mix, it still measured -0.96 so I think that is maxed for mine.
My SCT Pegs/maxes out at -.96 as well. I think it is possible to play with the limits of the value within a tune for finer readings/readings past -1 though if so desired.
That is correct, mine scales to -1.15
On my drive home today, I focused on light throttle/boost trying to allow the KR climb as far into the negative region as possible for as long as possible. KR maxed out several times at -3.99 (adding spark). After about 10 miles, OAR went from -0.76 to -0.79, then about about a half mile later it jumped to -0.96.
I'll still follow-up with SCT in the morning to see if they can offer any response to the OAR not clearing with KAM reset, but at least I think I can expedite the OAR relearn in the future, if they cannot provide a solution.
Thanks (again) for the help!
Glad it worked out :thumb: