Let me start off by saying that I have been running stage 3 tune since January '11, due to the fact that I did not know LMS made a stage 4 tune for 91 octane.
Now to my questions. I have the option of upgrading my X3 to the MyCal for a decent price. If I upgrade, I will be able to run all stages, to include 4+. I know it is entirely up to me and my driving style, but for those of you running Stage 4+, how do you compare it to stages 3/4. The person I was communicating with at LMS says that with 4+, i will avg 40+ hp more than regular stage 4, and carry out the boost to the shift point. As good as it sounds, just don't know if I want to spend the $. Do you all like the mycal? Also, what about some cons? Thanks all.
40 more HP than Stage 4/93 octane? You need a Mycal? Supposedly the Stage 4/93 adds 40-60HP. This 4+ can add 80-100? I'd like to hear more about this too!
Unless I am misreading, I was only referring to 91 octane the whole time, here is the cut and paste.
"The stage 4 and 3 that you currently have are minimal difference, but the one that everyone wants is the 4+ since it ahs the ability to carry out the boost to the shift point, typically providing 40+ more hp than the stage 4 tune at higher rpm."
Also, what can you do with your mycal that you can't do with your X3.
Only 4+ available for 91 octane is with the mycal.
Well, I have Stage 4+ with the SCT tuner and I can't believe that MyCal would get another 40 hp....but I know that Rick did say that the 4+ I have is now the Stage 4....but mine is for 93 octane. But they also offered to upgrade me to MyCal at a reduced price, but I forgot to ask how much for the upgrade. :bangin:
The MyCal is supposed to be able to access more parameters. I guess if he is speaking strictly 91 octane, you may be able to add 40 more HP going from the Stage 3 to the 4+ with the MyCal. I may be wrong but I doubt the Stage 4+ is 40 more HP than the Stage 4/93. Hopefully Chris will see this and straighten all these Stages and octanes out. I'll send him a link to this thread.
The MyCal Tuning device, allowed LMS to access a butt load of more tables over the SCT device.
In turn, the results did equate to the #'s you were quoted.
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Mike, do you mean that a MyCal with Stage 4+/93 will give me another 40HP over my Stage 4/93 with the X3?
Yes.
I believe SCT was working on something similar if I recall correctly.
Maybe others who are more familiar with the SCT device, can provide insight as to their plans to compete with the MyCal device.
More discussion on the differences between the two, & what lies ahead for either device as far as options, will likely yield a better opportunity for those still sitting on the fence, as to whether or not upgrading to the MyCal device is beneficial to them.
A lot of the decision making i'm sure involves each individual considering their own driving habits, and/or desires as well.
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That kinda ticks me off. I didn't know that when I bought just a month or so ago. I wanted the best tune I could get. All the discussions back then were about how the Mycal was necessary for the 2013's and that the Stage 4/93 with the X3 was the top for 2010-2012. (Unless Methanol, Stage 5.) I have asked Chris to visit this thread and hopefully give us a comprehensive description of all the tunes available.
"Best tune you could get" given the limitations (from what was explained to me by Rick, before he left LMS) is what you got with the SCT device.
So I suppose in that aspect (not being privy to your convo), you received what you asked for.
Now, inquiring about what device, COMBINED with available tune offerings, is perhaps what should've really been asked.
To reiterate, I believe SCT is (or possibly has at this point) come up with a competing product to match the MyCal.
I don't keep up with the SCT updates as much as I used to since I sold my X3 tuner (like you currently have).
Understand, that ultimately, all of these offerings are "canned" tunes, & that if one is truly looking for the best dial in, of each car, & their mods, heading to the dyno is the best choice of any of the choices out there.
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Quote from: mjhpadi on July 17, 2013, 01:01:28 AM
Well, I have Stage 4+ with the SCT tuner and I can't believe that MyCal would get another 40 hp....but I know that Rick did say that the 4+ I have is now the Stage 4....but mine is for 93 octane. But they also offered to upgrade me to MyCal at a reduced price, but I forgot to ask how much for the upgrade. :bangin:
Mark, remember way back when we were trying to figure out why some 4+ users were able to access the Grade Assist mystery mode? I don't think anyone thought to ask about which tuner held the 4+ file. Maybe your SCT tuner is why you could not replicate the elusive Grade Assist mystery "Sport Mode". I love it when a missing piece to the puzzle finally shows up.
On second thought .....forget it....doesn't work. I think Mike had the SCT at that point and he had the Grade Assist almost from the get go.
Wow, just when I think I have the stages for the 2010-2012s figured out, I get more information that makes me go "huh?"
I thought the original stage 4 had NO torque management. When 4+ was introduced, some torque management was added but also it carried the increased boost all the way to the shift points. The result was a tune that provided quicker times than the old stage 4 but also smoother daily driving characteristics. My understanding from Rick was that 4+ replaced stage 4 so they just dropped the "+" and referred to it as stage 4. That is the tune that I run using the SCT and 93 octane or higher is required. The difference between that and stage 3 is substantial on my car - much nicer shifts and a helluva lot stronger performance.
I know more parameters can be reached with the MyCal and and Rick confirmed that after I purchased the SCT device. He mentioned minimal HP/track time differences but I will defer to others who have actually put their cars on the dyno or run them at the track.
Wow. This thread is getting interesting. Performance wise this is my next mod.
While out & about in meh SHO!
Quote from: Brucelinc on July 17, 2013, 09:05:52 AM
Wow, just when I think I have the stages for the 2010-2012s figured out, I get more information that makes me go "huh?"
I thought the original stage 4 had NO torque management. When 4+ was introduced, some torque management was added but also it carried the increased boost all the way to the shift points. The result was a tune that provided quicker times than the old stage 4 but also smoother daily driving characteristics. My understanding from Rick was that 4+ replaced stage 4 so they just dropped the "+" and referred to it as stage 4. That is the tune that I run using the SCT and 93 octane or higher is required. The difference between that and stage 3 is substantial on my car - much nicer shifts and a helluva lot stronger performance.
I know more parameters can be reached with the MyCal and and Rick confirmed that after I purchased the SCT device. He mentioned minimal HP/track time differences but I will defer to others who have actually put their cars on the dyno or run them at the track.
You have it right...the difference in 93 octane tunes isn't going to be 40hp just by going to the MyCal. The MyCal is a better option because of the parameters Dan has thru the software.
SCT may change devices (BPD) but is the programming software that allows access to the parameters..not the device
I don't know much about the tuners, but from an advertising standpoint it seems very unlikely that you would gain 40hp by choosing the MyCal. From what I remember (haven't checked the livernois site for a while), the pages of the different tuners didn't mention anything at all about more hp from one to the other. If you could gain 40 hp (or hell even 15-20) for only an extra $100, don't you think livernois would be smart enough to at least mention it somewhere? People would jump on that deal. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is planning on spending $100 less on the SCT because all I want it for is the hp (not all the extra gadgets & gauges on the MyCal).
With that being said, Livernois needs to clarify the difference on their website. Imagine the headaches that would save!
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I would think that with all the extra perimeters that can be programmed with the MyCal, you may be able to increase horsepower...I just don't have an idea of how much, also I purchased the SCT back in 2011, so the upgrade would be pretty cool since the MyCal wasn't available then.
I really don't have any reason to believe that there are any noticeable performance gains using the MyCal for a 10-12. Stage 4/93 is a most satisfactory tune. They might have squeezed out another tenth or two in the 1/4 with the added access to tables but I don't think it would make much difference on the street. Like was said, who wouldn't go for an extra 40HP for only $100. Doesn't make sense. Just an opinion.
Quote from: Brucelinc on July 17, 2013, 09:05:52 AM
Wow, just when I think I have the stages for the 2010-2012s figured out, I get more information that makes me go "huh?"
I thought the original stage 4 had NO torque management. When 4+ was introduced, some torque management was added but also it carried the increased boost all the way to the shift points. The result was a tune that provided quicker times than the old stage 4 but also smoother daily driving characteristics. My understanding from Rick was that 4+ replaced stage 4 so they just dropped the "+" and referred to it as stage 4. That is the tune that I run using the SCT and 93 octane or higher is required. The difference between that and stage 3 is substantial on my car - much nicer shifts and a helluva lot stronger performance.
My understanding was that Stage 2 and 3 (I was told they were 91 octane tunes) were identical with one exception. Stage 2 had reduced torque management and Stage 3 had no torque management. I think Stage 2 was the only stage that had removed all torque management. In Stage 4+ ( I was told was a 94 octane but many were using 93 with no ill effect) LMS went back to reduced torque management. Since my SHO is a 2010, I don't know about the differences in the labels and specs for the 2013 which I gather is a different animal. Now if the tune files are also different for different tuners (SCT and MYCAL), then it's starting to get a bit complicated.
Well, I think in my case running stage 3, going to the new (to me) stage 4 (4+?) adding an avg of 40+ hp, it would be worth the $. Email has been sent to purchase, hopefully I can get it by the weekend.
Now to find a 1/4 mile track. The 1/8 miler at Irwindale is not worth it.
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 17, 2013, 11:22:25 AM
Well, I think in my case running stage 3, going to the new (to me) stage 4 (4+?) adding an avg of 40+ hp, it would be worth the $. Email has been sent to purchase, hopefully I can get it by the weekend.
I agree - going from stage 3 to stage 4, even if it has been modified to run 91 octane, should be a very good upgrade for you and well worth it.
By the way, Larry's comments above are exactly what I was told - the only difference between stage 2 and 3 was that 3 had no torque management. I was sent 2 versions of both stage 2 and 3, however - a 91 and a 93 octane version of each. Rick told me that the difference was 2 degrees additional timing advance on the 93 version.
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 17, 2013, 11:22:25 AM
Well, I think in my case running stage 3, going to the new (to me) stage 4 (4+?) adding an avg of 40+ hp, it would be worth the $. Email has been sent to purchase, hopefully I can get it by the weekend.
You lucky guy...
While out & about in meh SHO!
My understanding if I remember both the MyCal and SCT +4 tunes where the same, its the Meth tunes is where they differ. But thats nearly 2 yrs ago when I upgraded to the MyCal so a lot could have changed since then.
Quote from: FLIP-4-SHO on July 17, 2013, 12:37:47 PM
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 17, 2013, 11:22:25 AM
Well, I think in my case running stage 3, going to the new (to me) stage 4 (4+?) adding an avg of 40+ hp, it would be worth the $. Email has been sent to purchase, hopefully I can get it by the weekend.
You lucky guy...
While out & about in meh SHO!
I would let you drive it this weekend. But, Check your pm
When I got my SCT 93oct tune before Rick left, I said I wanted 4+ but the file was labeled 4. I asked him about it, and he said the old 4 is no longer used, and the old 4+ is now the normal 4.
Quote from: Kolk1 on July 17, 2013, 08:40:33 PM
When I got my SCT 93oct tune before Rick left, I said I wanted 4+ but the file was labeled 4. I asked him about it, and he said the old 4 is no longer used, and the old 4+ is now the normal 4.
I got that from Rick also.
I'm thinking I'd love for LMS put out a list of all the details and history of all the tunes and the variations. It's starting to get confusing and customers should be able to consult something official. If they won't, I suppose we can try to document details ourselves but seems like they are in the best position to provide a definitive reference bible.
I kinda doubt that any of the tuners want to tell anyone too much specific information on the tunes...it seems that it's a pretty competitive field and I would think the less the tuners tell about what that are doing, the less chance for the competition to learn and improve a competitive product...just my take on it. But I think that's why they don't want to be to specific on exactly what they are changing to improve the car.
I sent Chris a link and request to lay it all out for us. Hopefully, he will do that soon. He's probably trying to figure it all out himself. ;D
Mark, I think you may have something there. We don't need the specifics of the tune just a better idea of what they each do.
And what each tuner will do for the car. IE Mycal stage 4 more power than SCT stage 4, or something to that effect. Not that the SCT is a slouch. :beer:
Quote from: crash712us on July 18, 2013, 03:47:28 PM
Quote from: Milhouse86 on July 18, 2013, 11:42:29 AM
So when I go out of town and like to disconnect the battery is all that matters!
Thanks for the help!
Last question. The LMS mycal tuner, is it the one with the touch screen or is that an added feature?
MyCal tuner with touch screen is for 2010-2012 models. They also have a MyCal tuner for 2013+ but is has no touch screen.
This is the MyCal tuner for my 2013 SHO:
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/bigpelo/763ED853-C25D-45D6-B758-89AC9427547C-539-0000004B8432DA2F.jpg) (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/bigpelo/media/763ED853-C25D-45D6-B758-89AC9427547C-539-0000004B8432DA2F.jpg.html)
Haha it looks like a down grade. The other one looks really nice. It will clock 0-60 and a ton more.
I should know this, but....Can I just switch from one program to another without going back to stock?
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 19, 2013, 12:32:52 AM
I should know this, but....Can I just switch from one program to another without going back to stock?
I can with the MYCAL (touch screen) so probably everybody can I would guess.
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 19, 2013, 12:32:52 AM
I should know this, but....Can I just switch from one program to another without going back to stock?
Yes...no need to go back to stock when switching from one tune to another. By the way, if you have been running stage 3 and you are going to stage 4, I think you will like the transmission behavior MUCH better with stage 4. You will see the full effect after you drive it awhile and it "learns" the new parameters.
I am currently running an older stage 3 with no torque management. The newer version of stage 3 has torque management.
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 19, 2013, 10:29:53 AM
I am currently running an older stage 3 with no torque management. The newer version of stage 3 has torque management.
LMS used to call what they used in 2 and in 4+ reduced Torque Management and in 3 ...no Torque Management so maybe that's what they are now using in 3. If so it still shifts firmer than stock.
So that would make 2 and 3 now identical. I wonder if they will just drop 2. I guess that there must be some substantial differences between the new 3 and the 91 octane version of 4 (the old 4+).
We need some reference material/documentation to consult to avoid confusion.
:rant: :rant:One of the bad things about living in a state with low (not 93) octane, is not ever hearing about tunes for 91 octane, such as the stage 4. I would have been running it since its inception had I known. So I contacted LMS to send me updated files for my x3, and order the mycal tuner. I got the new tunes for my x3, was looking forward to trying them Out before the mycal arrived. But my car has a weird setting on the tune, at least the original tune did, where once it is tuned, I put it in drive, it stalls. Happened again with the new tune for my x3. :( :( :( figures. :rant: tried reloading it a few times, and now just waiting. But I will probably have the new tuner by then, and then do the trial and error thing again.
OK, my new new tunes came in late last night. Dan made the fix, and Stage 4 loaded. drove around the block, everything seems good. Now I have to go do some freeway therapy.
Sounds good man!
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 20, 2013, 03:08:48 PM
OK, my new new tunes came in late last night. Dan made the fix, and Stage 4 loaded. drove around the block, everything seems good. Now I have to go do some freeway therapy.
Enjoy!!
Hmmm, not much different than my Stage 3. Honestly, can't tell the difference yet. Will just have to wait for the Mycal to come in.
Like Bruce had siad above too, Imine takes 50-100 miles to really "set" in.
I noticed much more difference going back to 3 (temporarily for octane reasons) after running with 4 for a long time. I think the loss in power and the change in personality was more evident than the gain when I first loaded it up.
What was done to make a stage 4 that could be run on 91 octane - and how much more aggressive can it be than stage 3 without risk of detonation? There may be a lot less difference between stages 3 and 4 on 91 octane than there is on the 93 (or higher) octane versions.
Quote from: Brucelinc on July 21, 2013, 05:57:02 PM
What was done to make a stage 4 that could be run on 91 octane - and how much more aggressive can it be than stage 3 without risk of detonation? There may be a lot less difference between stages 3 and 4 on 91 octane than there is on the 93 (or higher) octane versions.
That's is what I was thinking also. But with the Mycal, more parameters can be adjusted, so stage 4 may be more noticeable.
Yes, maybe with the MyCal, the stage 4/91 will be better. I think the stage 4/91 is relatively new and was not even available with the SCT when I got my tunes back in January.
I know there has been much discussion on this but when I got my tunes, I asked Rick lots of questions about differences between the tunes. Some he couldn't answer and had to go to Dan before he could get back to me. At that time, he told me that stage 4+ had higher boost (up to 14.5-15 PSI), advanced timing, and altered A/F ratio. It was also set up to hold the boost longer into the RPM range. He stressed that it was really designed for 94 octane but many used 93 and got along fine.
When I went from stage 3 to stage 4+, the most striking difference I found was at about 4000 RPM and higher. From a dig, launching at 1500 or so, I could not tell a huge difference. Both would break the tires loose for a second or so and chirp again on the 1-2 shift. However, from 4000 - 6500, the stage 4+ was crazy strong compared with stage 3. Overall drivability was smoother and transmission behavior was more refined after about 100 miles or so.
Just my 2 cents....
So what's this about a 91/4 tune? When I got my in March they only offered 2 and 3 for 91 octane. Is this dependent on the MyCal vs SCT?
On a happier note I did find 93 octane locally - however its E10, how will that impact usage (if at all) w/stage 4+?
Thanks Guys!!!!
Mark
Ethanol is actually a high octance fuel - that is probably how they got the octane rating. I think you'd be fine with E10.
Here in Minneapolis, the only way to get 93 is with an ethanol blend and that is all I use. My car seems quite happy with it.
Speaking of that Bruce - you asked me about 93 octane in Des Moines on "the other forum". Well (as seen above) I did find it in ONE location. Its at the Murphy USA station in Altoona just of I80 north of Des Moines not too far east of I35, so should be easy access for you as you head south from the Cities. Addie is 3405 8th St SW, Altoona, IA 50009
Check out google maps.
Now to get Stage 4+ for me!!!!!! :biggrin:
Vernonator, that is good to know! I go to Southern Iowa a few times a year to visit family. Ecobrick Bob informed me that 93 was available at Murphy USA in Mason City. That is where I have been filling up on my way to and from Southern Iowa. The Altoona location will be more convenient since I always take the bypass around Des Moines on my way to Indianola and go right by there.
Quote from: Brucelinc on July 22, 2013, 12:13:02 PM
Vernonator, that is good to know! I go to Southern Iowa a few times a year to visit family. Ecobrick Bob informed me that 93 was available at Murphy USA in Mason City. That is where I have been filling up on my way to and from Southern Iowa. The Altoona location will be more convenient since I always take the bypass around Des Moines on my way to Indianola and go right by there.
Good to hear!!! I am kicking myself about this one. It's like 5mi from my house and I drive by it probably 1x week to get to Lowes. Never stopped to even look what they had. :bangin: :bangin: :bangin:
Quote from: Brucelinc on July 22, 2013, 11:26:44 AM
Here in Minneapolis, the only way to get 93 is with an ethanol blend and that is all I use. My car seems quite happy with it.
Bruce, where in Minneapolis do you find 93? I'm taking delivery in Sept and plan to have it tuned that week. I've only ever seen 92 around here. I'm in Plymouth.
Thanks
Art
Any BP gas station.
Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 22, 2013, 03:05:36 PM
Any BP gas station.
Not by me, 92 is the max at the few BP's I've checked.
The BP on Bass Lake Road/494 has 93. So does the BP in Champlin - that is where I buy mine. There is a BP at 3855 Plymouth Blvd. that has 93 - I just called them to confirm.
Hmmm...in the southern metro (Bloomington, Lakeville, Burnsville) there are a number of BP's that have 93 Octane. At least that is what the label says! Hope they are advertising correctly...I don't understand why BP would bother to have different octane ratings in different areas around Minneapolis...seems like it would be a distribution nightmare.
Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 22, 2013, 04:03:40 PM
Hmmm...in the southern metro (Bloomington, Lakeville, Burnsville) there are a number of BP's that have 93 Octane. At least that is what the label says! Hope they are advertising correctly...I don't understand why BP would bother to have different octane ratings in different areas around Minneapolis...seems like it would be a distribution nightmare.
I agree, that seems like a distribution nightmare. But the BP in Wayzata and one I stopped at in St Cloud both only had 92. Interesting.
I appreciate the tips and will check out a few more of the BPs around me. Good news in all, since I was originally thinking I'd be having to add some Torco Accelerator with every tank.
Art
Will an octane booster do the trick? If you are on a road trip and can't get 93 just toss a booster in right?
Quote from: Milhouse86 on July 22, 2013, 05:08:12 PM
Will an octane booster do the trick? If you are on a road trip and can't get 93 just toss a booster in right?
Rick, when he was with Livernois, discouraged the use of octane booster on these engines - not sure why. I have been told that a can of the stuff would only raise the octane a smidge - like from 91 to 91.2. I can't confirm that, either.
In any case, for Art, you can get the 93 at the BP stations I mentioned in my previous post. The BP up in Anoka has it, too.
Quote from: Brucelinc on July 22, 2013, 05:16:55 PM
Quote from: Milhouse86 on July 22, 2013, 05:08:12 PM
Will an octane booster do the trick? If you are on a road trip and can't get 93 just toss a booster in right?
Rick, when he was with Livernois, discouraged the use of octane booster on these engines - not sure why. I have been told that a can of the stuff would only raise the octane a smidge - like from 91 to 91.2. I can't confirm that, either.
In any case, for Art, you can get the 93 at the BP stations I mentioned in my previous post. The BP up in Anoka has it, too.
I ran a booster at the track and would not recommend it. Just use straight 93.
Quote from: Needmoreboost on July 22, 2013, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: Brucelinc on July 22, 2013, 05:16:55 PM
Quote from: Milhouse86 on July 22, 2013, 05:08:12 PM
Will an octane booster do the trick? If you are on a road trip and can't get 93 just toss a booster in right?
Rick, when he was with Livernois, discouraged the use of octane booster on these engines - not sure why. I have been told that a can of the stuff would only raise the octane a smidge - like from 91 to 91.2. I can't confirm that, either.
In any case, for Art, you can get the 93 at the BP stations I mentioned in my previous post. The BP up in Anoka has it, too.
I ran a booster at the track and would not recommend it. Just use straight 93.
I've read that Torco is one of the only that actually works. But having not used it myself . . .
I called and spoke with someone at LMS a year ago about octane booster and they strongly discouraged me from using it. I have heard of guys feather footing the throttle till they could get the normal 93, but I'm too paranoid to do that except as an emergency last resort tactic. Sooo...I just bite the bullet and load in a 91 tune. Maybe next year when I head out to Maine, I'll try the 91 version of 4 instead of going back to 2/3.
Got my new MyCal about 4 hours ago, sent LMS the info from my car, just waiting for my tunes now. This is the regular Mycal, not the touch. Hate this waiting part lol.
I hope they come tonight but, probably tomorrow.
Is LMS using the non touch screen mycal tuners pre 2013 cars now? Thought was only for 2013+
That Is What I Was Sent. The Packaging Shows For 2011-2013 SHO. So Far It Has Been Able To Retreive All The Info Needed To Send To LMS. It Communicates Faster Through The Port.
Hmmm, I just visit there site and the one they show 2010-11 is the touch screen which is $800 and non touch screen for 2013 is $600.
Now of course this means nothing and there site need some updating.
Hopefully you spoke with someone upon placing your order, as if its the incorrect device could brick your ECM.
Quote from: crash712us on July 22, 2013, 08:20:09 PM
Hmmm, I just visit there site and the one they show 2010-11 is the touch screen which is $800 and non touch screen for 2013 is $600.
Now of course this means nothing and there site need some updating.
Hopefully you spoke with someone upon placing your order, as if its the incorrect device could brick your ECM.
Thanks for adding to my worries LOL. Do you really think it could brick my ECM? When I hooked it up to get the readings today, it did so without any hesitation. I would think that if the Mycal was not compatible, it just would not do anything. Even when you try to program the car, I think it would just fail, and not let you proceed.
Quote from: DJE624 on July 22, 2013, 08:04:03 PM
I hope they come tonight but, probably tomorrow.
There is always hope, I know sometimes Dan works late.
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 22, 2013, 11:57:19 PM
Quote from: crash712us on July 22, 2013, 08:20:09 PM
Hmmm, I just visit there site and the one they show 2010-11 is the touch screen which is $800 and non touch screen for 2013 is $600.
Now of course this means nothing and there site need some updating.
Hopefully you spoke with someone upon placing your order, as if its the incorrect device could brick your ECM.
.
Thanks for adding to my worries LOL. Do you really think it could brick my ECM? When I hooked it up to get the readings today, it did so without any hesitation. I would think that if the Mycal was not compatible, it just would not do anything. Even when you try to program the car, I think it would just fail, and not let you proceed.
Sorry I don't mean to add to your worries. I just know at one time the mycal without touch screen was only for 2013.
Lol, I was kinda kidding. I called this AM, they are compatible with the 2010's.
There is a new sticky on top talking about the tunes and stages.
Crash, no brick, all is well. Looking forward to my commute.
Quote from: SoCalSHO on July 24, 2013, 12:47:30 AM
Crash, no brick, all is well. Looking forward to my commute.
Good deal! Sorry again for the false alarm. Looks like LMS needs to update there site.
It's all good. It looks as though they did update their site. Look under 2010-2012 EB tuning.