Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Troubleshooting, Maintenance, TSB Articles => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 07:24:53 PM

Title: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 07:24:53 PM
So it turns out the shudder ive been experiencing in my flex is due to a bad torque convertor with possibly more internal damage. The tranny is being removed and instead of just replacing torque convertor im going for a full rebuild. But i would like some better parts (high stall, shift kit, etc) but am having trouble finding aftermarket support. Does anyone or has anyone done transmission upgrades? Which company?  Pros and cons to messing with upgraded tranny parts for these cars?
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Hard parts require tune changes...there are slip rates, clutch fill times for gear changes and slip ratiofor the clutch packs

You should feel how fast a properly tuned ecoboost transmission can shift being completely stock
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 07:38:26 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 07:29:49 PM
Hard parts require tune changes...there are slip rates, clutch fill times for gear changes and slip ratiofor the clutch packs

You should feel how fast a properly tuned ecoboost transmission can shift being completely stock

Hmm, so what would you recommend, stick with OE for the rebuild and focus more on getting it properly tuned? And are you talking handheld or dyno?
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 07:44:23 PM
I think the selection of parts will suck....and id be afraid if i put an upgraded type converter in and it didnt work as anticipated and daily driving sucked you would be screwed
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: BiGMaC on June 09, 2016, 08:06:22 PM
Currently I have no tranny issues (knock on wood).

Sorry to here of the failure of your TC, but agree with the rebuild as the best route. I researched the issue for weeks about 6 months ago simply because with the 3.5EB gen1 we have can easily be tuned and modded far beyond any engineering specs or long term reliability prospects for the Tranny and PTU. Unfortunately even the one company who said they could beef it up on their website declined and had no suggestions. Stay with OEM would be my advice and for daily use have a tune that makes below 450-475 AWHP.  Some have tunes that make as much as 617 AWHP (almost 800 CHP equivalent), but have been warned by their tuner that they would break the car if they used it for DD... So they use a milder tune most of the time.

Just my $0.02.  Best of luck with your difficulty.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 10:43:11 PM
What do yall think about deep sump aluminum pan and cooler? Also, ive heard some good benefits on a shift kit and that no tuning was required but dont no the truth behind that.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 10:50:33 PM
There is no pan on the bottom of the car

I would say tuning for ANY trans hard part...i really wish you all could see the trans section for an ecoboost tune
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 10:50:33 PM
There is no pan on the bottom of the car

I would say tuning for ANY trans hard part...i really wish you all could see the trans section for an ecoboost tune

Lol. No pan? Well that answers that. Lol. What kinda of tune would you recommend?  Like a handheld?
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: SHOdded on June 09, 2016, 10:53:16 PM
Wouldn't you have fitment issues if you tried the "deep sump" approach, assuming it is even feasible with the casings on these transmissions not really having a pan?  If, and I mean IF, you could have a custom piece made by cutting into part of the casing, possibly, then there would be clearance issues with the exhaust, belly pan, ...

There has been a tiny amount of attempts made to improve the trans, specifically, a higher stall converter, but that failed to yield any performance improvement.

I think if you could figure out where the flow restrictions are inside the transmission, where the weak solenoids are, that kind of thing, you could actually improve upon Ford's design.  Not a project taken on casually, or for someone who does not have deep pockets.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 10:57:59 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 09, 2016, 10:53:16 PM
Wouldn't you have fitment issues if you tried the "deep sump" approach, assuming it is even feasible with the casings on these transmissions not really having a pan?  If, and I mean IF, you could have a custom piece made by cutting into part of the casing, possibly, then there would be clearance issues with the exhaust, belly pan, ...

There has been a tiny amount of attempts made to improve the trans, specifically, a higher stall converter, but that failed to yield any performance improvement.

I think if you could figure out where the flow restrictions are inside the transmission, where the weak solenoids are, that kind of thing, you could actually improve upon Ford's design.  Not a project taken on casually, or for someone who does not have deep pockets.

Well i have it in a trans shop now who is taking it out and apart and rebuilding with all new parts for only $2000 which was way below my budget ($5-$6k) so i was hoping for "drop in" performance parts but doesnt look like thats happening. Lol.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: SHOdded on June 09, 2016, 11:02:18 PM
Completely understand how you feel.  The "aftermarket" is just not there for these transmissions.  I mean you could talk to mfrs like Sonnax for their insight, maybe they also know repair/performance shops that routinely work with the 6F55.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 09, 2016, 11:02:18 PM
Completely understand how you feel.  The "aftermarket" is just not there for these transmissions.  I mean you could talk to mfrs like Sonnax for their insight, maybe they also know repair/performance shops that routinely work with the 6F55.

Awesome. Appreciate the feedback.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 11:26:16 PM
Quote from: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 10:50:33 PM
There is no pan on the bottom of the car

I would say tuning for ANY trans hard part...i really wish you all could see the trans section for an ecoboost tune

Lol. No pan? Well that answers that. Lol. What kinda of tune would you recommend?  Like a handheld?

The handheld device is just the communication medium to transfer the calibration....id go with unleashed or lms
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 11:28:58 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 11:26:16 PM
Quote from: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 10:50:33 PM
There is no pan on the bottom of the car

I would say tuning for ANY trans hard part...i really wish you all could see the trans section for an ecoboost tune

Lol. No pan? Well that answers that. Lol. What kinda of tune would you recommend?  Like a handheld?

The handheld device is just the communication medium to transfer the calibration....id go with unleashed or lms

So i have to buy a tuner like the sct x4 and then purchase a lms or unleashed tune, load it on my handheld, then load it in the car?
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 11:41:54 PM
Yep.....lms requires their tuner
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 09, 2016, 11:42:39 PM
Well imma get on that
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: EcoPowerParts on June 09, 2016, 11:43:17 PM
LMS = their tuner, everyone else = X4 just FYI.
LMS won't use X4 for tuning.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: pmezo33 on June 09, 2016, 11:54:12 PM
I was looking for you to update your other thread.  Looks like you're joining the recent bad torque converter club too.  I did the full rebuild too about a month ago and it's running as smooth as ever.  Hope you get the same results.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 12, 2016, 04:46:37 PM
Quote from: pmezo33 on June 09, 2016, 11:54:12 PM
I was looking for you to update your other thread.  Looks like you're joining the recent bad torque converter club too.  I did the full rebuild too about a month ago and it's running as smooth as ever.  Hope you get the same results.

Sorry for late response and apologies about other thread. I should have mentioned it moved it over here. So yea, after the last two shops claimed bad t vert, i brought it to a highly respected trans shop out here in SD who confirmed it was a bad torque and also something with 3rd gear. He has the tranny torn down and I am going there tomorrow to look at what he found internally (ill try and get pics). Hes charging me around $2000 which i think is a pretty decent deal. I explained to him i wanted him to look into finding me upgraded parts for trans but after doing research on here, most ppl are saying not to get those (like high stall convertor, shift kit, etc.) without an extensive tune so i think im just gonna stick with oem parts.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: SHOdded on June 12, 2016, 07:17:09 PM
3rd gear's been problematic on SHO transmissions for many years now :)  Glad you are making progress, what kind of warranty coverage are you looking at post-rebuild on the trans?
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 12, 2016, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 12, 2016, 07:17:09 PM
3rd gear's been problematic on SHO transmissions for many years now :)  Glad you are making progress, what kind of warranty coverage are you looking at post-rebuild on the trans?

Me too, its been a nightmare. And it will have standard 3 year 100k mile warranty on parts and i believe 6 month warranty on their labor. Im not too sure though. Have to doublecheck on that. Just hope once its done that this will be the end for awhile. Bought car, engine blows up on second day, luckily got it replaced through warranty as well as both turbos and now the tranny. This car will be damn close to brand new again.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: SHOdded on June 12, 2016, 07:36:39 PM
NEW will be kinda cool, tho the hard way!
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 12, 2016, 07:38:09 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 12, 2016, 07:36:39 PM
NEW will be kinda cool, tho the hard way!

Right. Im just glad its almost over. I really miss my flex.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: SHOnUup on June 13, 2016, 09:49:28 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160613/86e5001025faffa3f8cbc9b0f4b918e0.jpg)

That pic is all the info I've been able to get out of the guys with trans builds...2 600+ awhp SHO'S have this build now too.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 13, 2016, 09:49:28 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160613/86e5001025faffa3f8cbc9b0f4b918e0.jpg)

That pic is all the info I've been able to get out of the guys with trans builds...2 600+ awhp SHO'S have this build now too.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Nice, i will show the trans shop this to see what they can do. I really want ti do something with trans. Its akready being taken apart so i mine as well.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: J-Will on June 13, 2016, 07:27:22 PM
Keeps us updated on the trans mod

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 08:08:35 PM
So, heres the deal. I talked to the thr shop owner and gis conclusion was this, there are very few things available for our trans and the price it will be to upgrade wont be worth it. He said the internals in these trans are already pretty tough, other than a few updated sensors and what not hes gonna replace he said it wouldn't be worth the price. So im just going with a full rebuild of oem updated parts. Will be done by Thursday. 😀😀
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: AJP turbo on June 13, 2016, 08:13:54 PM
If you really think about how many 6f55's there are, there really arent that many failures.did you get the flex new?...i say get the rebuild done...get some good fluid in there and good trans tuning from the popular tuners out there and you will be fine
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 08:39:06 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 13, 2016, 08:13:54 PM
If you really think about how many 6f55's there are, there really arent that many failures.did you get the flex new?...i say get the rebuild done...get some good fluid in there and good trans tuning from the popular tuners out there and you will be fine

No, i bought it used at 100k miles. The engine threw a rod 2 days after i bought it. Its had a few problems. Now with new engine and rebuilt trans im hoping for a fresh start.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: AJP turbo on June 13, 2016, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 08:39:06 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 13, 2016, 08:13:54 PM
If you really think about how many 6f55's there are, there really arent that many failures.did you get the flex new?...i say get the rebuild done...get some good fluid in there and good trans tuning from the popular tuners out there and you will be fine

No, i bought it used at 100k miles. The engine threw a rod 2 days after i bought it. Its had a few problems. Now with new engine and rebuilt trans im hoping for a fresh start.

Good lord thats a rough life
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 09:34:46 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 13, 2016, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 08:39:06 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 13, 2016, 08:13:54 PM
If you really think about how many 6f55's there are, there really arent that many failures.did you get the flex new?...i say get the rebuild done...get some good fluid in there and good trans tuning from the popular tuners out there and you will be fine

No, i bought it used at 100k miles. The engine threw a rod 2 days after i bought it. Its had a few problems. Now with new engine and rebuilt trans im hoping for a fresh start.

Good lord thats a rough life

Youre telling me 😔😳
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: SHOnUup on June 13, 2016, 11:02:51 PM
They did say it's not cheap for the parts. Haven't looked into it myself as these transmissions do seem to be pretty strong.

Good luck on the rebuild.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 11:05:57 PM
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 13, 2016, 11:02:51 PM
They did say it's not cheap for the parts. Haven't looked into it myself as these transmissions do seem to be pretty strong.

Good luck on the rebuild.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Thank you much! And yea. Ill look into upgrades for the trans when i hit the 500hp range. Does anyone know the horsepower limit for these 6f55s?
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: bpd1151 on June 13, 2016, 11:21:50 PM


Quote from: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 11:05:57 PMDoes anyone know the horsepower limit for these 6f55s?

Yes.

I was told by the engineer's who developed the 3.5 SHO Ecoboost platform, way back in 2011 when I had my 1st (of several) tours of the CAP (Chicago Assembly Plant) that Ford did not experience trans failures until "around the 720 (crank hp) mark".

Now I was never told the specifics of what broke, and nor did I ask, but that's the magical number to avoid.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 11:32:37 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on June 13, 2016, 11:21:50 PM


Quote from: Flexthis2011EB on June 13, 2016, 11:05:57 PMDoes anyone know the horsepower limit for these 6f55s?

Yes.

I was told by the engineer's who developed the 3.5 SHO Ecoboost platform, way back in 2011 when I had my 1st (of several) tours of the CAP (Chicago Assembly Plant) that Ford did not experience trans failures until "around the 720 (crank hp) mark".

Now I was never told the specifics of what broke, and nor did I ask, but that's the magical number to avoid.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Well damn, thats much more than what i expect out of my flex. So looks like im good to go 👍 Thank you for the info.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 19, 2016, 10:18:16 PM
They say the flex will be done tomorrow. So this including time when car was in shop waiting on new engine totals a nice 6 weeks without my flex and only owning it for 3 months!! I guess i can say i fell in love with her at first sight and refused to give up! Lol. Im just hoping that the shuddering problem is all gone. It better be after over $2k worth of work. Beyond excited though to have my baby back.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: SHOdded on June 19, 2016, 10:47:57 PM
Thinking +++++++++ve!
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 20, 2016, 08:49:42 PM
Got my flex back and problem solved!! Shifting as smooth as slicing butter. No stutter/shudder/hesitation whatso ever. Money well spent 👍👍 Just glad that nightmare is finally over.
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: SHOdded on June 21, 2016, 01:33:41 AM
Rock it baby!
Title: Re: Shudder confirmed, upgrades wanted
Post by: Flexthis2011EB on June 21, 2016, 02:05:50 AM
😎😎💎🌟
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