It was on the car a whole month and maybe had 2-3 gallons ran though it. Power directly to the pump does nothing, not a peep out of it. Working though snows warranty process right now to try and get one cross shipped so I am not without it for too long. What a PITA.
UPDATE:
So after being impatient and not hearing back from Snow I pulled the pump apart. I felt that it was something to do with the brushes and not the pump end due to there being no noise at all, then just a brief spray when testing then nothing again. Sure enough when I opened it about a half cup of water poured out of the motor housing...WTF? It says mount the pump any which way, but this thing has more holes in it than a sponge. I think the water was getting into the plastic pass through that the power and ground wires go through. There is a spring that pushes the brushes against the motor, it shorted and melted that spring so there was no longer contact between the brush and motor, everything else looked okay. I cleaned it all up inside and fixed the spring, sealed it all up like it should be and tested, all is working again. Can't say I am impressed with the motor in this pump and how the brushes are mounted. After doing some research I see Snow has an EE version of the pump "extreme environments" and apparently inside the bumper of my DD Lincoln is an extreme environment. Advice to anyone mounting the pump outside the car, pay the extra 30 bucks to get the EE version of the pump, I did not even know there was an option when I bought it. I'm sure its the same damn pump with some F'in RTV on it like mine is now.
The best part is the LED light shows its spraying because its just a tap off the power lead from the controller. Not until you feel the car pulling timing and closing the throttle do you know something is wrong. There must be a better way to know fluid is flowing. Until then I will have torque running with KR monitored so I know if this thing fails again. $hitty engineering pisses me off!
Geez, second snow pump to fail recently
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6176.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6176.0.html)
Yeah they think his is the controller rather than the pump. I assume he did the same as I and tested the pump and it was fine.
Is this a trend? Hope the company's not taking a "dump"!
Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2016, 12:34:49 PM
Is this a trend? Hope the company's not taking a "dump"!
Well, I don't think they make the pump. We will see how their customer support is.
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Hate to hear about this! Hopefully they get you squared away without any out of pocket expenses. This makes me nervous about considering a meth kit
Quote from: Scott4957 on June 02, 2016, 12:36:36 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2016, 12:34:49 PM
Is this a trend? Hope the company's not taking a "dump"!
Well, I don't think they make the pump. We will see how their customer support is.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Doesn't seem they're treating Scoles properly.
Just be happy your foot wasn't mashed to the floor when it failed....consider yourself lucky I guess.
What are symptoms of a failing or failed pump? How do you know it's failed?
Quote from: glock-coma on June 02, 2016, 03:05:53 PM
Just be happy your foot wasn't mashed to the floor when it failed....consider yourself lucky I guess.
Oh.....it was. The car pulled all the timing and I lost a ton of fuel pressure. A/F stayed where it should and all was fine, believe it or not you could hardly notice it was not spraying other than it not being as fast.
Wow. I though if you lost your pump your motor went kaboom. Good to know.
Smart PCM ... sometimes :)
See my update. Great quality for $500. If you look at this video you will see what the inside looks like, mine was all nasty like this one after a month. They all leak!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dFWH5MoJY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dFWH5MoJY)
BTW, the video is titled ... Disassemble AEM 30-3015 / Snow Performance / Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection Pump
Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2016, 05:44:19 PM
BTW, the video is titled ... Disassemble AEM 30-3015 / Snow Performance / Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection Pump
Not sure I follow. Anyways, its identical internally to my pump.
Just putting in a marker for searches
Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2016, 07:32:20 PM
Just putting in a marker for searches
Ahh, good idea, thanks!
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My snow pump was not used all winter and in the spring it didn't do a thing hit it a few times to get it running again but the motor is loud as sh*t. So needless to say I will have to replace it most likely. Not sure what the deal is. I mean it still completely works but damn its loud. Like a brake rotor and pad, metal to metal.
Sad to see your having problems with snow too... Also sad to say that if you took apart the pump I don't think they will warranty it. Atleast that's what I'm fighting at the moment with the controller I apparently "TAMPERED" with....
Quote from: scoles92 on June 06, 2016, 02:06:33 PM
Sad to see your having problems with snow too... Also sad to say that if you took apart the pump I don't think they will warranty it. Atleast that's what I'm fighting at the moment with the controller I apparently "TAMPERED" with....
F'em, i don't care. A monkey could rebuild that pump and there is nothing on it to show it was opened. They certainly are not building them, says made in the USA but I doubt by them. I couldn't find anything in the documentation about not mounting it outside the car, yet it took on water like the F'in Titanic. For $30 more they will have some Chinese kid slap some RTV on the thing and call it an "Extreme Environment" pump. While you are waiting for your controller and assuming your pump is in the engine bay like mine, I would take it apart "just the motor housing" and use some sealant on it and the wire pass though.
Yeah I messed up when I told them that I removed the vac line. Never in a million years would I have thought of that as a deal breaker. Especially with all the emails sent back and fourth verifying that it was the controller at fault.
As long as they don't know you pulled it apart you should be good. Best of luck to you sir!
On a side note if you ever want to take a road trip to Colorado I'm down! :minigunner: :minigunner: :minigunner:
I feel for you, scoles. They should help you out with this. I don't know anything about this company, but in similar situations with other companies, I have had success when I speak with someone a bit higher up the ladder than the typical people who take phone or internet orders. If you could obtain the name of such a person at Snow and politely explain your situation to them, they might do a goodwill adjustment or help you in some way. Just a thought.... I really want to race you at Brainerd when you get that beast running it's best!
What a load of crap!
Warranty Team <warranty@snowperformance.net>
Attachments3:36 PM (12 minutes ago)
to me
Thank you for contacting Snow Performance Warranty Team. We have reviewed your paperwork and your item does not qualify under our warranty terms for the following reason(s)
System was bought well below MRP pricing.
Please see link http://www.snowperformance.net/returns.asp (http://www.snowperformance.net/returns.asp)
We want to help you get your system up and running at maximum performance and can offer you the option of purchasing your replacement part at a much reduced cost (MSRP LESS 50%). Please call our Tech Team at 719-633-3811 or email tech@snowperformance.net to place your order. Please note that our Tech does not handle or discuss any warranty issues and cannot resolve or offer any assistance on the warranty deny claim.
Thank you,
Snow Performance Warranty Team
I am a manufactures rep for a totally unrelated product, but my primary customers are E-commerce based drop ship retailers.
Snow Performance is entering a VERY dangerous area by denying warranty based on the price paid for a product by an end consumer. A manufacture can set a Minimum Advertised Price, but can NOT legally affect the price that the retailers ultimately sells the item for to the end consumer. That is price fixing and is illegal. Denying warranty based on the final purchase price is in effect price fixing and is not legal.
That being said, if they are selling items directly to an end consumer at a discount with the disclaimer that the items do not include a warranty, that is perfectly fine.
I think we should merge this thread with the other and come up with a catchy new title so it comes up when searching SNOW methanol pump.
I'd also suggest sending filing a complaint with the Colorado ATTY General, sholxgt is correct, price fixing is illegal.
So let me get this straight, they are voiding your warranty because you paid under MRP then selling you another pump below MRP which voids the warranty for the new pump?
Keep it classy SNOW!
Where did you guys purchase the pumps from?
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 07, 2016, 06:52:25 PM
I think we should merge this thread with the other and come up with a catchy new title so it comes up when searching SNOW methanol pump.
I'd also suggest sending filing a complaint with the Colorado ATTY General, sholxgt is correct, price fixing is illegal.
So let me get this straight, they are voiding your warranty because you paid under MRP then selling you another pump below MRP which voids the warranty for the new pump?
Keep it classy SNOW!
Where did you guys purchase the pumps from?
Yeah, the BBB suggested the same. Urns out they have an F rating. I'll start on that during my copious amounts of free time.
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Somehow I am not shocked that Snow Performance has an F rating with the BBB.
If you guys paid with CC and it's within 6 months, I'd dispute the charge.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 07, 2016, 06:59:58 PM
Somehow I am not shocked that Snow Performance has an F rating with the BBB.
wow that's terrible looks like it's time for some Bad Publis city
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/05/the-word-on-warranty-protection/index.htm (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2013/05/the-word-on-warranty-protection/index.htm)
I'll get the pitchforks....
Seriously though F these guys
There are actually multiple issues with their "warranty"
http://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/what-will-void-a-warranty-.html (http://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/what-will-void-a-warranty-.html)
Quote from: scoles92 on June 07, 2016, 07:13:46 PM
I'll get the pitchforks....
Seriously though F these guys
I already lit my torch!
Snow Performance Warranty Policy
Warranty Policy:
Snow Performance, Inc. warrants that the Product shall conform to and perform in accordance with published technical specifications and shall be free of defects in materials and workmanship for 1-year providing:
1. You are the original purchaser and provide proof of purchase.
2. The system was purchased from a Snow Performance Authorized Dealer at MRP pricing set by Snow Performance.*
* No warranty will be offered for any Snow Performance products if purchased below MRP.
3. For Lifetime warranty, the Warranty Card that came with system (not applicable to separate parts purchases) is returned to Snow within 45-days of purchase and Boost Juice® injection fluid is used exclusively.*
* Boost Juice® usage evidenced by invoices/ receipts.
4. An RMA # has been attained and is displayed on package containing returned part.
5. Parts Warranty ~ 90 day warranty on parts purchased separately if used in conjunction with a Snow System. No warranty implied if used with a non-Snow part/system. Subject to Snow's inspection of the product, Snow will remedy defects in materials and/or workmanship by repairing or replacing, at Snow's option, the defective product without charge for parts or labor, subject to the limitations and exclusions described in this warranty.
This warranty does not cover problems caused by normal wear and tear including aesthetic oxidation of surfaces, accidents, unlawful vehicle operation, or modifications or repairs to product not performed or authorized by Snow. This includes any product that is disassembled or taken apart for any reason.
In addition, this warranty does not cover problems resulting from conditions beyond Snow's control including, but not limited to, theft, misuse, overloading, or failure to assemble, mount or use the product in accordance with Snow's written instructions or guidelines included with the product or made available to the original retail purchaser. In the event of failure, Snow will repair or replace the part at Snow's sole discretion. Failures resulting from misapplication or misuse of the Product, failure to adhere to any specifications or instructions, or failure resulting from neglect, abuse, accidents, or act of nature are not covered under this warranty.
Warranty service may be obtained by emailing warranty@snowperformance.net with the original receipt/invoice and the problem that is occurring. A RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization) will not be given over the phone for any reason. Once the RMA# has been issued the customer will deliver the part to Snow Performance with proof of purchase at their expense. Customer agrees to insure the Product or assume the risk of loss or damage in transit, to prepay shipping charges to Snow, and to use the original shipping container or equivalent. Shipping for Warranty replacement parts shipped outside the continental US will be charged to customer.
Non-Warranty Repair/Retest
Products returned due to damage or misuse and Products retested with no problem found will be returned to customer at customer's expense.
Distributor/Dealer Warranty:
All customers/dealers must deal directly with Snow performance to receive warranty. No warranty will be issued through a distributor for any reason.
Return Policy:
All returns must be emailed to warranty@snowperformance.net for a RMA#. A RMA# (Return Merchandise Authorization) will not be issued over the phone for any reason.To return product it must have been purchased directly from Snow Performance. Snow Performance will not take used kits or parts for refund. If you are returning an unused kit there is a 15% restocking fee minus shipping/handling. All returns must be made within 90 days of purchase date. No exceptions.
All questions or requests for additional information regarding this policy must be addressed to:
Snow Performance, Inc.
Hours of operation: 9 AM-5PM Monday-Friday Mountain Standard Time
Phone: 719-633-3811
Fax: 719-633-3496
Email: warranty@snowperformance.net
1017 Highway 24 East, Unit A
Woodland Park, CO 80863
They should just change it to "No Warranty" on their products. I bought my stage 3 from a vender on eBay. Price was wrong and paid basically what a stage 2 would cost. And since I got a deal I didn't get a warranty. Rediculas. So I plan to get an alcohol injections pump here soon. And maybe have someone check the snow one out to see if it can be repaired
I would photoshop the invoice and send them about 30 faxes with different sales amounts. Ask if any of them are acceptable. LOL
So dont buy snow if i need meth...noted...they sound like a chincy group
This is what i never understood about companies that sell stuff like this....is it really worth it to be stingy over a device that doesnt cost them that much?...now someone is aggrevated and a community discovers a terrible bbb rating and now a reputation may precede itself...now damage is done
Sometimes you need to spend money to make money lol
So what system should I be looking at instead of a Snow? Alky? Devils? Other?
Really turned off from snow after all this...
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They deny warranty because you didn't pay MSRP, but offer you a replacement... below MSRP!?!?!
Glad to be on the fence about meth. AJs recent tune results, ACES, and these threads have me very concerned. Ill just wait for a direct port injection, with a second stage just after the turbos for cooling.
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Quote from: Sabtaj1 on June 07, 2016, 07:30:29 PM
They should just change it to "No Warranty" on their products. I bought my stage 3 from a vender on eBay. Price was wrong and paid basically what a stage 2 would cost. And since I got a deal I didn't get a warranty. Rediculas. So I plan to get an alcohol injections pump here soon. And maybe have someone check the snow one out to see if it can be repaired
What were the symptoms of your pump failure? If it makes no noise at all I would pop it open on the wired side and check the brushes on the motor. I bet its the same issue I had.
As soon as I'm out of warranty I'm going to Alky... Julio has been very responsive.
Sorry to read the reports of no service, and feel your frustration, but appreciate you guys sharing your poor experiences with Snow.
Quote from: J-Will on June 07, 2016, 09:00:13 PM
They deny warranty because you didn't pay MSRP, but offer you a replacement... below MSRP!?!?!
Glad to be on the fence about meth. AJs recent tune results, ACES, and these threads have me very concerned. Ill just wait for a direct port injection, with a second stage just after the turbos for cooling.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Is any of that needed? LOL. 526 WTQ on good ole pump 93, zero knock, adding timing.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 07, 2016, 09:54:53 PM
Quote from: J-Will on June 07, 2016, 09:00:13 PM
They deny warranty because you didn't pay MSRP, but offer you a replacement... below MSRP!?!?!
Glad to be on the fence about meth. AJs recent tune results, ACES, and these threads have me very concerned. Ill just wait for a direct port injection, with a second stage just after the turbos for cooling.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Is any of that needed? LOL. 526 WTQ on good ole pump 93, zero knock, adding timing.
Probably not...LOL... But from all I've seen I can take my 3.9-4 sec 0-60 down another second with meth.... The cooling has a really dramatic effect in PHX temps.... No body needs this on a DD, but it's fun stuff to pin people in their seats and stop at the next red light while the cars you were with are still in th intersection you just left... Hehe.
The pump was all of a sudden noisy. The motor itself. It works as it should but not quiet like it was when I first got it. The kit works great though. No complaints except that they wouldn't repair the pump. According to my areoforce gauge my flex did 0-60 in 3.9 which I feel is pretty damn good for being a fat pig. Haven't been able to make it back to the strip yet this year but I would love to squeeze an 11 outta it with the stock turbos. All these damn seats are holding me back.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 07, 2016, 09:54:53 PM
Quote from: J-Will on June 07, 2016, 09:00:13 PM
They deny warranty because you didn't pay MSRP, but offer you a replacement... below MSRP!?!?!
Glad to be on the fence about meth. AJs recent tune results, ACES, and these threads have me very concerned. Ill just wait for a direct port injection, with a second stage just after the turbos for cooling.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Is any of that needed? LOL. 526 WTQ on good ole pump 93, zero knock, adding timing.
Dont know yet. ACES might have potential to fill some of the gap. And perhaps it'll fill enough to skip meth and move directly to the fuel system upgrade. But those intake temps arent going to cool themselves.
Glad I came across this thread... saved me some headaches apparently... The alky kit from LME is pretty pricey...
I do not know much about them, but there are also AEM meth kits available. I believe Unleashed started to carry them.
Quote from: Scott4957 on June 02, 2016, 05:12:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dFWH5MoJY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dFWH5MoJY)
Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2016, 05:44:19 PM
BTW, the video is titled ... Disassemble AEM 30-3015 / Snow Performance / Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection Pump
This makes it seem that Snow, AEM, and Aquamist all use the same (very similar) pumps, so you may still have problems with the brushes. If a pump fails during a WOT pull, no matter how good their warranty is, its not going to replace your engine,
Quote from: Rockstar04 on September 06, 2016, 01:38:47 PM
Quote from: Scott4957 on June 02, 2016, 05:12:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dFWH5MoJY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dFWH5MoJY)
Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2016, 05:44:19 PM
BTW, the video is titled ... Disassemble AEM 30-3015 / Snow Performance / Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection Pump
This makes it seem that Snow, AEM, and Aquamist all use the same (very similar) pumps, so you may still have problems with the brushes. If a pump fails during a WOT pull, no matter how good their warranty is, its not going to replace your engine,
All/Any pump can fail. Users on here report no catastrophic failure from the pump stopping. The car just pulls a ton of timing to protect itself.
The real issue is finding a company that supports their product and honors the warranty.
My snow pump is a pile. Just ordered a Devils own pump to run. If that shits out too I will try the Alky Controls pump if it will work with my stage 3 controller... Just hope devils own warranty is better than snow cause they suck
Quote from: sholxgt on September 06, 2016, 01:43:00 PM
Quote from: Rockstar04 on September 06, 2016, 01:38:47 PM
Quote from: Scott4957 on June 02, 2016, 05:12:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dFWH5MoJY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5dFWH5MoJY)
Quote from: SHOdded on June 02, 2016, 05:44:19 PM
BTW, the video is titled ... Disassemble AEM 30-3015 / Snow Performance / Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection Pump
This makes it seem that Snow, AEM, and Aquamist all use the same (very similar) pumps, so you may still have problems with the brushes. If a pump fails during a WOT pull, no matter how good their warranty is, its not going to replace your engine,
All/Any pump can fail. Users on here report no catastrophic failure from the pump stopping. The car just pulls a ton of timing to protect itself.
The real issue is finding a company that supports their product and honors the warranty.
I wouldn't rely on that to be my guide. Things are moving real fast when those pumps fail and its just a matter of time before a pump failure takes out a motor. Between the speed of events and a feed forward system where you are always milliseconds behind whats actually going on I would say
luck has played a factor so far.
Quote from: Sabtaj1 on September 28, 2016, 04:06:30 AM
My snow pump is a pile. Just ordered a Devils own pump to run. If that shits out too I will try the Alky Controls pump if it will work with my stage 3 controller... Just hope devils own warranty is better than snow cause they suck
They are the same pump. Both companies use an Aquatec 5800 series pump.
I'm gonna make a wild guess subpar pump reliability is the reason LME uses ALKY.
Quote from: hawkeye93 on September 28, 2016, 01:24:46 PM
Quote from: Sabtaj1 on September 28, 2016, 04:06:30 AM
My snow pump is a pile. Just ordered a Devils own pump to run. If that shits out too I will try the Alky Controls pump if it will work with my stage 3 controller... Just hope devils own warranty is better than snow cause they suck
They are the same pump. Both companies use an Aquatec 5800 series pump.
Yea, I understand that. But I hadn't heard back from alky yet and needed one ASAP. I'm sure it'll be fine.
As Mike (bpd) has told me, there is about a 2 year duty cycle on the Alky control pumps. That is why he has a spare pump at home and when the one on the car quits, he swaps out and sends it back to alky for a rebuild. You have the cost up front, but then it cost half as much to get it rebuilt and you always have one on hand.
A failing methanol kit cost me a $3000 shortblock in my fox. It was fantastic that it added 73rwhp but just the simple boost switch not activating caused detonation that broke a piston ringland. I was INSANELY lucky because the almost 2" curved piece magically went out of the exhaust valve and didn't beat the s*** out of everything.
After that I removed it all and put it on the shelf. My dad still has a snow kit on his 05 Roush, it's a 100% stock car with a non-ic Vortech kit and we picked up about 50rwhp with the kit and a pulley a few steps down. However the system will often loose it's prime when the car sits for a few weeks so I've trained my dad to kick the boost switch on until he hears it spray in the intake.
I helped tune his car and we have the Air Charge temp sensor set to pull massive timing if it so much as gets past the 135 temp it's at when the meth/water flows.
There are some very good elaborate sensor flow type kits available but they aren't cheap. I was never motivated enough to get one. After a few small changes to my setup I was able to make enough power anyway to split my block without the meth.