I recently tuned my sho and saw the knock reading was quite back and it was pulling alot of timing. I thought it was a fuel issue so i changed to a few different gas types. I originally was running 94 octane with 10% ethanol and found i get the worst knock on this gas. both stock and tuned i tried a few 91s and it got a little better but never went away. I went back to stock after this and saw knock go down considerably (1.5-4) instead of (5-6.5). Recently tried the 94 octane stock and see spikes of 6.5 at WOT. I had to go on a long roadtrip and noticed i was having spark blowout on the plugs so i got them replaced at my destination. Im not sure what else to do. Im starting to think its a ton of carbon build up.
How many miles are on your car? Have fixed your knock sensor wires (there is a how to)? What are you using to measure the knock?
What was the gap on the new spark plugs? Set to 0.028 or 0.030, I hope?
I got it done at ford dealer as it was kinda of a pinch. I'm dropping car off at dealer Tuesday for drivers side blend door, massaging seats, old dark stain on top of ptu. My ac has been acting up but it's not all the time so they probably won't even diagnose that. My battery is also not looking to good and probably needs to be replaced.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Quote from: ecoboostsho on August 01, 2015, 06:02:32 PM
How many miles are on your car? Have fixed your knock sensor wires (there is a how to)? What are you using to measure the knock?
no I'll have to check that out. Never could see the knock before. I'm using a sct x4 with Torrie config file for dataloging. 94000 km so I guess 60 k miles almost . Had all the driveline fluids replaced about 15 k ago. Always used 91+. Did buy the car used though.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/01/88b8bf5ecda79f3b09e760c6902b6dd9.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/01/ba082e3d600aa88859ca5317443fa5fd.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/01/dee038e8b6abe83ae2d0b4de48c315d2.jpg)
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Hope someone can chime in with the differences in datalogging between the SCT X3 and X4, but here is a basic writeup on how to do it with the X3:
http://www.mustangevolution.com/mustang-articles/how-to-data-log-your-vehicle-with-an-sct-x-cal3/ (http://www.mustangevolution.com/mustang-articles/how-to-data-log-your-vehicle-with-an-sct-x-cal3/)
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=788.0 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=788.0)
A howto for the X4 written by Bama Performance:
https://support.bamaperformance.com/hc/en-us/articles/202545589-How-to-Datalog-with-the-Bama-SCT-X4-SF4 (https://support.bamaperformance.com/hc/en-us/articles/202545589-How-to-Datalog-with-the-Bama-SCT-X4-SF4)
More useful info on their site, if you want to dig deeper.
Fuel trims are commonly abbreviated as STFT (shorttermfueltrim) and LTFT (longtermfueltrim). Bank1 will be STFT1 and bank2 will be STFT2 for instance.
You should get comfy with logging with the X4, but if you can't, I think Forscan on iDevice or Torque Pro on Android is a great way to go. Very easy to use. You WILL need a WiFi OBD adapter with the iDevice (such as the VGATE) or WiFi/Bluetooth adapter with the Android (such as VGATE, OBDLink MX, etc).
Plug gaps need to be changed to 0.030 or 0.028, whatever Torrie recommends. Otherwise you will likely be running too lean for the tune, creating conditions for a knock. You might get away using 94 octane fuel with stock plug gap & 87 tune, but not a 93 tune + stock gap + 94 fuel. Basically you are using higheroctane fuel to fudge for improper plug gap, at best a temporary measure.
I was having kr issues until I started blending a little e85 in with 93. I would definitely check you knock wiring, its right below the tstat housing and is easily cut on the edge of the engine block.
6.5 on wot is no Bueno
Quote from: glock-coma on August 01, 2015, 09:20:14 PM
I was having kr issues until I started blending a little e85 in with 93. I would definitely check you knock wiring, its right below the tstat housing and is easily cut on the edge of the engine block.
6.5 on wot is no Bueno
Agree on the wiring!
Since adding EtOH to the fuel increases effective octane I think you have to view it as a temporary workaround measure only. I'd recommend fix the problem.... Then if if you want to use an ethanol blend you can tune to take advantage of the higher octane by adding more timing, tune or ECM.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11800421_10153567181430972_7714614004183774085_n.jpg?oh=33fe8cc37c1c78e677d5c733b3ece7b6&oe=565424C3)
are these the wires?
Not sure from the pic. Also, remember that the KR sensor is a microphone, so other loose objects could possibly fool the sensor.... That said it is a quick fix and here's a link to the post with pics:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,554.msg3496.html#msg3496 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,554.msg3496.html#msg3496)
Quote from: curry67 on August 01, 2015, 10:00:46 PM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11800421_10153567181430972_7714614004183774085_n.jpg?oh=33fe8cc37c1c78e677d5c733b3ece7b6&oe=565424C3)
are these the wires?
That looks like them. 4 wires total. 2 for each knock sensor. (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/01/e6f55370faad20aebfeb07ad86bee4cc.jpg)
2010 RCM non PP
K&N panel filter with aux hose
RX OCC with CSS
sp534 @ 30
unleashed tune 12.90@106
Do i just wrap the yellow part in electrical tape and zip ty to that black thing beside it? If that's all 4 knock sensor wires I bet this is my issue.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
The black hose with the yellow tape is a vacuum hose I believe. The white and black wires are the ones your looking for. You can see them in the pic. they're covered about 2" down in a rubber sleeve. The exposed part is what your worried about.
I just realized if you are seeing KR during shifts, that could be torque management.
I also just realized that is the only time I see KR so......derp.
Alright now to jam my hand in there and get some tape on them
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
I reading about the design of the knock sensor input circuitry,a short to battery,short to ground,or open circuit all result is a low knock signal voltage output,this output voltage is compared to a noise signal threshold (function of engine rpm and load)to determine knock sensor circuit high,circuit low or performance faults,some PCM/ECM modules use a driver circuit that will periodically and actively test the knock sensors lines for short circuit faults,in these modules supplemental codes can be set for the short circuit condition ,some PCM/ECM modules use standalone knock IC,in these modules the knock signal processing chip SPI bus is checked for proper communication between the main processor and the chip used as the interface the knock sensor,would also check for any codes set and monitor the high (knock retard)with obd scanner as SHOdded mentioned above,personaly have the MX obd bluetooth adapter along with torque pro which really comes in handy to monitor your vehicles functions,the above is a brief description of the sensors primary function,due apologize for the lengthy post on this topic just sometimes get in the mood to read and learn more about our vehicles aspects and all and before taking it to our local friendly dealer which most of us hate. Z
This knock is driving me nuts I feel like this isn't gonna work. I don't feel comfortable tuning it anymore.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
I have a sct x4 I datalog with. I almost always see knock from 3 to 6 at wot for a split second.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Are there any codes,DTC'S set that you know off Curry.
Like FoMoCo pointed out, do you see a gearshift at the same time? Is the SHO losing any power at the time the knock occurs? If a gearshift is happening and there is no power loss, I would probably keep an eye on it, but not worry about it.
Quote from: curry67 on August 02, 2015, 01:39:53 PM
I have a sct x4 I datalog with. I almost always see knock from 3 to 6 at wot for a split second.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Z is probably correct, but I do wonder about adequate function of fuel pumps... Maybe you're getting too lean for that instant.
I could post a log if you guys would like
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Post it up
Yes, do post a log :)
Quote from: curry67 on August 02, 2015, 01:35:55 PM
This knock is driving me nuts I feel like this isn't gonna work. I don't feel comfortable tuning it anymore.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Lol, dump some 87 in your tank on the stock tune.....
Your head will probably explode.
I wouldn't get too worked up, the car is very good at protecting itself.
I just don't think I should see any with 94 octane and 10 percent ethanol. It's top tier supposedly.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 02, 2015, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: curry67 on August 02, 2015, 01:35:55 PM
This knock is driving me nuts I feel like this isn't gonna work. I don't feel comfortable tuning it anymore.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Lol, dump some 87 in your tank on the stock tune.....
Your head will probably explode.
I wouldn't get too worked up, the car is very good at protecting itself.
This is true...However, Fomo's head is a little more susceptible to explosions because it works overtime lol...
But not only is the ECU good at protecting itself but it also rides the edge of performance for a given fuel. That's the beauty of having knock sensors. You will never see an inactive knock sensor, remember that. I've also seen a lot of people misinterpret data logs when trying to diagnose a problem or even a perceived problem that doesn't even exist.
When you see knock sensor reading it's most likely not knocking but the PID is displaying how much timing was removed to prevent the knock from occurring so you can rest easy.
The benefit of having knock sensors it to keep the cars running consistent over long periods of time to compensate for changes in atmosphere, engine environment, fuel quality, physically degraded engine components
So would thst explain higher knock readings on higher octane?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Quote from: curry67 on August 02, 2015, 02:16:43 PM
I just don't think I should see any with 94 octane and 10 percent ethanol. It's top tier supposedly.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
I've said this before but there will always be new people self diagnosing their own cars....Nothing wrong with that but it can be tough....Not saying this is always true but the average end user that has a tune or is stock can't see the entire situation.
I can make a tune and run 87 octane and make it so the knock sensors are ADDING timing and you can have a tune where you run race fuel and the ECU will pull timing....It's all on how the base tables are set...If I set the tables with 15 degrees less than stock then even with 87 octane the ECU will add timing.
I know that some performance tunes simply add a few degrees of global timing then the result it more power and timing advance to whatever the fuel and situation can tolerate....If it can't tolerate it then you wiil see knock sensor retard
Quote from: curry67 on August 02, 2015, 02:31:30 PM
So would thst explain higher knock readings on higher octane?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Maybe....But you really need to have someone verify on a log just to make sure that's really what you have. Then I would want to look for trends....5 and 6 is a little high...If it's an isolated event then no biggie. If it continues then your timing tables need work and are over advanced and you are relying on the knock sensors.
Take your device and under user options retard the spark by 4 or 6 degrees and see if it's better...If it is then your spark tables are over advanced.
I like my knock sensor readings to be like my short term fuel trims.....They should hover around 0. A little above and below is good.
Quote from: ajpturbo on August 02, 2015, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: curry67 on August 02, 2015, 02:31:30 PM
So would thst explain higher knock readings on higher octane?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Maybe....But you really need to have someone verify on a log just to make sure that's really what you have. Then I would want to look for trends....5 and 6 is a little high...If it's an isolated event then no biggie. If it continues then your timing tables need work and are over advanced and you are relying on the knock sensors.
Take your device and under user options retard the spark by 4 or 6 degrees and see if it's better...If it is then your spark tables are over advanced.
I like my knock sensor readings to be like my short term fuel trims.....They should hover around 0. A little above and below is good.
Even on stock tune?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Log please..
Well it could've been isolated...Isolated could even mean a weekend or how long you had some fuel or how long a station had that fuel I dunno....
Seems like some of you folks from canadia land battle fuel troubles now and again eh?....And those cooler temps up there may lead to extra spark advance due to the IAT compensation tables...As IAT's are cooler the ECU will add some timing also
Quote from: curry67 on August 02, 2015, 02:42:24 PM
Quote from: ajpturbo on August 02, 2015, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: curry67 on August 02, 2015, 02:31:30 PM
So would thst explain higher knock readings on higher octane?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Maybe....But you really need to have someone verify on a log just to make sure that's really what you have. Then I would want to look for trends....5 and 6 is a little high...If it's an isolated event then no biggie. If it continues then your timing tables need work and are over advanced and you are relying on the knock sensors.
Take your device and under user options retard the spark by 4 or 6 degrees and see if it's better...If it is then your spark tables are over advanced.
I like my knock sensor readings to be like my short term fuel trims.....They should hover around 0. A little above and below is good.
Even on stock tune?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
X2 on that ?
Got a log with 6 wot pulls upload it when I get home
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
heres a link to my datalog.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzPC7uX6FB_Abm9VX1BYc0k1bEU/view?usp=sharing
That is one gargantuan log file, curry! Working on it now.
Your Wot pulls are very short. Good data goes along way when logging....can be tough on the street though...I have my good secret places to log where I live.
Your not really giving the car time to settle into a nice pull. I did see one of the WOT pulls though where there was no knock sensor readings. Even though you had some knock sensor readings your timing did not look overly advanced. I saw spark around 13-16 degrees so that's fine....But you did have more knock sensor activity than I would expect to see on a stock tune. I wouldn't be worried but I would watch for trends and see if it continues.
Try and get a nice long pull if you can. at least 2 or 3 complete gears or 80 mph of acceleration. Give it time to pull and see how it looks and if the entire pull has knock sensor readings.
Some have had to do the knock sensor wire mod. I have my doubts on if that does anything but some say it helped them. These ECU's are so busy and dependent on environmental conditions I can see coincidence and timing of the wire mod playing a factor. I can't see vibration and noise appearing as high knock readings....Why not low? And if the wire is so bad it was grounding out on people then the knock sensor PID would just flatline I would guess. But I have seen what people call false knock or ghost knock as reported from knock sensor due to aftermarket cams that have noisy valve trains or metallic noises from exhausts having an effect.
You should try and flash and pull 6 degrees or some dramatic amount like 10 to see if it's the tune...If it's not then you have a component or sensor failure maybe
That's what I see at this point...Does't look real bad though...Let the sensor do it's job..Or wait for a DTC....If you don't have a dtc it can't be that bad...This car basically has the ability to tell you if your farts contaminated your alcantara in the seats
I do see timing being retarded even at single-digit speeds, not just WOT. All in 1st gear, seems the banks are not sync'd for some time before & after the timing is retarded. In decel, after 3-1 downshift.
Assuming stock tune still.
ya all stock tune. I gotta try to find a spot i guess probably have to drive outside the city.
Highway on ramps are always a good spot....
Make a note of any rattles or ticking noises you hear at any time. Want to eliminate cam phaser/timing chain involvement. What motor oil/filter are you running, BTW?
i managed to get 2 decent pulls 1 good launch but i noticed one of the afr values goes to 0 for a bit seemed interesting. timed my 0 to 60 at 6 flat which isnt to great but i guess its a non pp and stock. also im 310 lol.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzPC7uX6FB_AX3hvX3ZhRkE3dDg/view?usp=sharing
Quote from: SHOdded on August 02, 2015, 11:52:22 PM
Make a note of any rattles or ticking noises you hear at any time. Want to eliminate cam phaser/timing chain involvement. What motor oil/filter are you running, BTW?
Motorcraft filter with Motorcraft full synthetic. dont really hear much while driving feels pretty smooth.
Your bank 2 primary o2 sensor seems to have checked out....I don't know what that's all about...I would replace it....What's up with all the bad 02 sensors lately?...At one point it was reading 1.0 when the bank 1 sensor appeared to be reading normal....Then I saw it reading 0. That can't be good
Based on your pics earlier i'm thinking you never cleaned the engine bay,is there any drought of any kind in your area,personaly a good start will be to get a couple cans of MAF cleaner and clean all the map sensors,iat,tb,cact,,anything that has a harness connector like the spark plug connectors,they get all kinds of dirt and oil buildup overtime,you mentioned you changed the plugs,did you also change the boots on the coils? only a suggestion cause every little bit helps. Z
Got plugs and boots changed last weekend. Thought that might have been problem. I got a can of the sensor clean from crc was gonna do the two maps and the maf. Everyone beaking my engine bay lol
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
It's good to clean the map sensors every once in a while but it's very abnormal for your O2 sensor to flatline in the log....that almost has to be a component failure
Quote from: ajpturbo on August 03, 2015, 10:04:57 AM
It's good to clean the map sensors every once in a while but it's very abnormal for your O2 sensor to flatline in the log....that almost has to be a component failure
What do i have to say to ford for them to plug it in for a test drive and monitor to see if the engine is running correctly id be willing to pay a few hundreds bucks if it led to some warranty repairs. shouldnt my 02 sensor going give me a code? seems like these cars dont like to tell us anything...
I really don't know why it wouldn't throw a dtc....I've never seen an instance where the O2 sensor stopped reading...the primary O2 sensors give feedback in open and closed loop in these cars so there is no good reason for it to do what yours did....might be kinda tough to get dealer to do anything without a dtc
i really should just trade this thing in lol
I would try to say that your experiencing poor mpg and maybe they would consider hooking it up to the IDS software and take it from there,sounds like you have not visited the dealer in a while,if so maybe you need to reprogram your PCM,maybe theres an update revision available,just a thought. Z
Quote from: ZSHO on August 03, 2015, 11:36:54 AM
I would try to say that your experiencing poor mpg and maybe they would consider hooking it up to the IDS software and take it from there,sounds like you have not visited the dealer in a while,if so maybe you need to reprogram your PCM,maybe theres an update revision available,just a thought. Z
i bring it in all the time they never say anything about updates it has been updated a few years ago but im just sort of getting stacked with problems with this car. changed oil frequently with pennzoil platinum, mobil1 or motorcraft full synth. got tranny ptu and rdu fluids switched out a few thousand miles back.
Have you sent the configuration file to Torrie,maybe he can give you a little input on whats actually going or any ideas. Z
he jsut said to check plug gap. he didnt seem to find anything wrong before.
Quote from: ZSHO on August 03, 2015, 07:40:35 AM
Based on your pics earlier i'm thinking you never cleaned the engine bay,is there any drought of any kind in your area,personaly a good start will be to get a couple cans of MAF cleaner and clean all the map sensors,iat,tb,cact,,anything that has a harness connector like the spark plug connectors,they get all kinds of dirt and oil buildup overtime,you mentioned you changed the plugs,did you also change the boots on the coils? only a suggestion cause every little bit helps. Z
so just pull the map sensors and spray on scott towel? And maf I leave in the tube don't I? Also is mass airflow sensor cleaner fine for the map sensors
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Yes, MAF cleaner is fine for MAP sensors & pretty much any electronics. Yes, place part on scott towel and spray away. Should all evaporate. Make sure you do this in a well-ventilated area. Not sure about your question about the "MAF leave in tube" ...
I would spray the sensors on both sides,the one by your air filter just twist it off gently and spray both sides of the electrodes and let them dry for a few min,also (dont)use the straw cause you could damage the electrodes,while your there clean the connectors also,best of luck to you and keep us updated. Z
Do i have to detach the sensors fully?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Quote from: curry67 on August 03, 2015, 03:17:54 PM
Do i have to detach the sensors fully?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
If your refering to the IAT sensor,the one by your air filter the answer is no,but personaly i always like to remove it. Z
No just not to break these clips lol took out one on top of engine appears oily
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Is this car under extended warranty?
I bet unplugging it while running would throw a DTC, just sayin.
Ya it's extended warranty cleaned both map sensors and the one by the intake tightened a feel clamps that didn't feel tight. Only got a knock reading of 4 which is down from the usually 5 or 5.5 with this tank of gas.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Should I check for a dtc I've personally never gotten one off this car. Wish it told me more
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Torque has a DTC count gauge....pretty handy, it will at least tell you there is one.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 03, 2015, 05:21:51 PM
Torque has a DTC count gauge....pretty handy, it will at least tell you there is one.
the sct x4 has a read code function i just never see any.
There are events stored in the ECM memory that are not DTCs, but will cause one if the occur too frequently, for example misfires. Also, some components depend on codes set by others... For example, when my LPFP and fuel control module failed all I got was a communication code (not DTC and won't light a CEL) about bad information from the fuel pumps to the ECM, and a low fuel rail pressure code from the sensor on the HPFP. Point is there may be indications that don't set DTCs. Even at that the FCM failure wasn't diagnosed until it died during the test drive for the LPFP. My MyCal saw these so surely Torque, etc will.
ya ive tried almost everything except cleaning the cac. Im bringing it to the dealer tomorrow. Im curious if they ask if i was tuned should i just tell them yes? I was only tuned for a week or so then flashed back to stock.
Quote from: curry67 on August 03, 2015, 07:02:15 PM
ya ive tried almost everything except cleaning the cac. Im bringing it to the dealer tomorrow. Im curious if they ask if i was tuned should i just tell them yes? I was only tuned for a week or so then flashed back to stock.
Dont tell them you were tuned. Chances are they will end up telling u anyways.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I think the gas you got is bad and you should consider changing the 02 sensor. the first time i have ever seen knock was when i changed from my regular gas station to a new one, I saw a max of 4.0. After changing the gas to mobile (top tier) knock went down to 2 max, and after the 02 sensor change (same day i changed gas) it was back to 0.
(see log attached)
Must be a thing with wideband sensors to go flatline. Never had a narrowband do that, just go lazy ...
Tried 3 different top tiers same thing.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
any codes being set now?
Codes being set? Looked clear on the tuner
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzPC7uX6FB_AUkZtV01FNzVQWU0/view?usp=sharing
latest log
At time stamp 4269 is the indicator to me that your bank 2 primary o2 sensor is giving out....And your WOT pulls are not near long enough to get good data
Not saying the 02 sensor is your only problem but I would start there before you drive your self nuts...Get the car mechanically sound then other things can clear up...
The difference between bank 1 and bank 2 is really off in places and your LAMBSE should match your afr...Atually the afr should match lambse, not to be mistaken with LAMBDA
Would a k&n air filter screw up o2 sensors?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
That's actually a dumb question but no it would not...Sorry you left me no choice
lol i just hear people saying they screw up sensors. Im desperate to solve this as i want to drive around tuned before it gets to cold to have fun.
Sometimes they aren't the greatest when they are over oiled for cars that use a MAF sensor for primary fueling and airflow calculations because the filter is so close to the sensor it can become oil coated. But we use MAP sensors for fueling and airflow calculations and they are less prone to mis-calculations due to coatings of oil on them.
Just get your damn sensor changed and then see where you are before you speculate to death and reach for solutions that aren't relevant....You seem to be fighting changing the part but your data shows it needing changed, so do it already jeesh
Quote from: ajpturbo on August 07, 2015, 11:41:52 PM
Atually the afr should match lambse, not to be mistaken with LAMBDA
Could you explain the difference?
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 08, 2015, 12:25:37 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo on August 07, 2015, 11:41:52 PM
Atually the afr should match lambse, not to be mistaken with LAMBDA
Could you explain the difference?
So basically it's commanded Lambda?
Is it just one sensor or two?
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
There is 1 upstream and 1 downstream sensor on each bank, curry.
From: http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC%20Help%20files/Files/Lambse%20notes.html (http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC%20Help%20files/Files/Lambse%20notes.html)
Lambse
Lambse is the A/F ratio that the EEC is commanding or you could call it targeted or short term fuel trim. In a perfect world the Lambse is the A/F ratio that you should see on a wideband.
The value of lambse is calculated from the various fuel tables.
In closed loop operation Lambse is the calculated A/F ratio needed to maintain the set point (14.64:1) as reported by the O2's, and it seems to adjust much faster then KAMREF correction value. In open loop LAMBSE is the a/f ratio that the computer believes is being injected.
Lambda is A/F ratio expressed as a percentage of 14.7:1. Just divide the A/F ratio by 14.7 to get lambda, or multiply lambda by 14.7 to get an A/F ratio. If the lambda is .88, the A/F ratio is 0.88 * 14.7 = 12.936
It's just a percentage of stoich, or 14.7:1 A/F ratio. To convert a lambda value to an A/F ratio just multiply by 14.64. exmp: 1.25 lambda * 14.64 = 18.3 A/F ratio
http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/fuel101.htm (http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford/fuel101.htm)
Well said shodded...yes basically the way I interpret lambse is afr should match that...after all compensations the afr should match the lambse....
And shodded 14.069 is what you use for the multiplier instead of 14.7 or 14.64.....those would be for straight gas...the 14.069 must be what ford considers stoic for pump ethanol fuels...that's in the stock tune file
I just quoted the content of the first link :) Yes, stoich needs to be adjusted for the fuel in question.
I thought it was 14.08 for 0.10 (standard gasoline)could be wrong. Z
Quote from: ZSHO on August 08, 2015, 01:01:51 PM
I thought it was 14.08 for 0.10 (standard gasoline)could be wrong. Z
Well that's pretty close...I'm sure if u do a search u would find some small variation...I've seen 14.06-14.3 for e10 gas and e85 is in the high 9's
A little data on gasoline/e-fuel stoich:
http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html (http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html)
http://www.brighthubengineering.com/machine-design/15235-the-stoichiometric-air-fuel-ratio/ (http://www.brighthubengineering.com/machine-design/15235-the-stoichiometric-air-fuel-ratio/)
Well I figured out I have a highschool friend who's been a ford tech at a dealer in my town for 8 years so I finally found someone that will care.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
That's awesome, curry, looking forward to hearing some good news re the SHO for a change :D
Ya I'm thrilled man. Lol dropping it off in few days hopefully asap lol
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Well my buddy checked it out said everything was good. But based off my logs he will replace the o2 on warranty. Pretty excited can't wait to get the car tuned again
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Quote from: curry67 on August 13, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
Well my buddy checked it out said everything was good. But based off my logs he will replace the o2 on warranty. Pretty excited can't wait to get the car tuned again
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
what would make your buddy say it's good is he a fool?
He drove it out extensively with the ford logger. Battery checks out for charge and alternator was good.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
It's either the o2 sensor cause the knock or I got some serious carbon buildup
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Yeah because of the battery and alternator is a good way to check for a bad oxygen sensor LOL
Quote from: curry67 on August 13, 2015, 08:26:07 PM
It's either the o2 sensor cause the knock or I got some serious carbon buildup
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
neither your oxygen sensor just decided to take a s***
Quote from: curry67 on August 13, 2015, 08:25:48 PM
He drove it out extensively with the ford logger. Battery checks out for charge and alternator was good.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Most mechanics aren't very good at reading datalogs and diagnosing problems...they are overpaid parts changers
Ya I'm just happy something is getting fixed. I'll go back and inspect the knock sensors more thoroughly. They look fine. I got the sparkplugs/boots changed. 94 octane fuel. Got rid of all the rattles in the engine bay. No leaks of any kind on engine. All I got to go on is the o2 sensor isn't reading correctly on afr bank 2 and the sensors are getting replaced. Can really only go from there.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Well all of those things are good too...but the first thing to fix was the O2 sensor but u refused
Quote from: ajpturbo on August 13, 2015, 08:46:22 PM
Quote from: curry67 on August 13, 2015, 08:25:48 PM
He drove it out extensively with the ford logger. Battery checks out for charge and alternator was good.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Most mechanics aren't very good at reading datalogs and diagnosing problems...they are overpaid parts changers
Have to agree for the most part, unfortunate .., probably why they are called technicians and not mechanics ... No dis intended to anyone.
I was gonna say that lol I'm really scratching my head at why I get such high knock readings with no audible knock. I need to get some of that high quality electrical tape just tape to the sensor.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Looks like replacing the knock sensor myself would be a no no.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Quote from: curry67 on August 13, 2015, 09:11:36 PM
I was gonna say that lol I'm really scratching my head at why I get such high knock readings with no audible knock. I need to get some of that high quality electrical tape just tape to the sensor.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Again...reading datalogs and tuning is a skill that takes a while to get good at...not that I'm an expert but I'm learning and u always will be learning.
U don't get it...u aren't supposed to hear knock...the knock readings aren't knock events but rather the amount of timing needed to be pulled to prevent the knock
No one really seems to know what it is. All I've heard is o2 sensor is off.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Quote from: curry67 on August 13, 2015, 09:11:36 PM
I was gonna say that lol I'm really scratching my head at why I get such high knock readings with no audible knock. I need to get some of that high quality electrical tape just tape to the sensor.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Honestly with these cars if you get to the point you hear audible knock, your day, week, month, and possibly year is most likely ruined.
Quote from: curry67 on August 13, 2015, 09:12:38 PM
Looks like replacing the knock sensor myself would be a no no.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Dude u kill me...maybe u just are messing with me...why would u think u need to change a knock sensor?...we already know u have a problem with ur O2 sensor..start there then move on...u don't have a reason to change the knock sensor...it could be real or not...but we know ur 02 sensor is s***....
But yeah throw parts at it aimlessly if u must ur dumber than I thought
Quote from: curry67 on August 13, 2015, 09:27:21 PM
No one really seems to know what it is. All I've heard is o2 sensor is off.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Fix the identified problem which is the 02 sensor then proceed...a component that has failed can have a ripple effect because of how many systems rely on each other...don't u get that
For a long time I always thought an O2 sensor was a useless thing that just cost money and just tripped check engine lights and had no purpose...that came from people at ur local parts stores and idiots
That is the dumbest thing ever...they are so crucial to a car nowadays...especially when it is a wideband sensor in a boosted car.
Page 8 already!! Definetly start fixing the cheapest component first and proceed from there,peforming the 02 sensor sounds more feasible compared to the knock sensors which is a different story to perform unless you have warranty which i wasnt aware you had and should be your last resort. Z
Lol it's page 8 because he refuses to do what's been recommended lol...I would normally start with the cheaper stuff but in this case there was a clear indicator that pointed to the O2 sensor so that would be my starting point....especially after ksckrew problem that appeared to be the same
Should we start an oxygen sensor fund?
Ya know, "We are the World", but for cars....
I clearly stated it was getting fixed on warranty I'm just waiting on the part I was just thinking of other things to try.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Just incredible you have to wait a week for a simple part like that! Ford must really be "lean"ing out on inventory.
It's stocked in USA so customs screws it over I'm guessing he said 6 days advisor said 10 days.
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Quote from: SHOdded on August 15, 2015, 05:26:58 AM
Just incredible you have to wait a week for a simple part like that! Ford must really be "lean"ing out on inventory.
Typically that means its a low failure rate item....of course it could just be cause he's in Canuckistan....😉
I think it's because of a sudden surge of demand from ... ahem ... EBPF members!
The conversion is bad for me now lol
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
Good conversation, thanks all.
I too have noticed this, sometimes, at 'near' WOT. I hear a loud knock that seems to come from the right passenger side. No codes stored. I've heard it three times in the last year.
Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk