I am reading quite a few SHO owners talking about carbon buildup. I have 18k miles on mine so I was wondering at what mileage should I look into carbon cleaning and how is this performed? I talked to my buddy at Ford and he told me not to worry about carbon buildup and just to drive my car! He also recommended not to put anything in my motor to address this issue. Has anyone here successfully cleaned the carbon out of their engine? I also noticed Ford has a new design to the ecoboost engine that is port and direct injected so I'm not blind to the fact of a possible design flaw but I also realize by the time our engines start to lose power it should be well over 100k miles. Input on this would be appreciated!
From what I've read, no cleaning processes are ok'ed by Ford. Valve cleanings are supposedly causing turbo issues. Meth injection looks like the only fail safe so far. I'm a rookie to this so hopefully some of the guru's chime in.
Rich
I have been interested in this topic for quite a while know,the major symptoms to look for are poor mpg,rough idle,hesitation,if your car does not exhibit those issues,symptoms,would not worry that much for know,just use a good full synthetic motor oil at frequent intervals,and top tier gas like 93 Exxon,Shell if you have.
Good advice! I try to get my oil changed every 4000 miles and I only put Shell V-power 93. My car idles so smooth sometimes It feels like my engine is not even running. From what I've read the major issue with carbon buildup is power loss.
Quote from: anthonylee337 on January 25, 2015, 10:06:13 AM
I am reading quite a few SHO owners talking about carbon buildup. I have 18k miles on mine so I was wondering at what mileage should I look into carbon cleaning and how is this performed? I talked to my buddy at Ford and he told me not to worry about carbon buildup and just to drive my car! He also recommended not to put anything in my motor to address this issue. Has anyone here successfully cleaned the carbon out of their engine? I also noticed Ford has a new design to the ecoboost engine that is port and direct injected so I'm not blind to the fact of a possible design flaw but I also realize by the time our engines start to lose power it should be well over 100k miles. Input on this would be appreciated!
Problem with GDI (which is how all the power comes from a V6) is no way (except Meth or dismantling) to clean intake valves... hence the MP injection addition by Ford. FMC has one of the best systems, but it is a problem... BG services bought a '10 SHO and tested this for over 60K miles... the car was evaluated with boroscope, dyno, and/or driver impressions every 5K miles...
worth the read... It is here: https://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/ (https://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/)
Def get on the gas once in a while (as discussed in another thread) to get the "cobwebs" off. Driving too long in gas-saving mode only exacerbates the problem. You could try switching to a good full-synthetic to help decrease PCV vapors & thus carbon buildup.
Looks like the BG stuff works pretty good-has anyone used it and where do you get it? Can it be performed by a dealer or is it a fuel additive?
I tried the BG fuel system cleaner in a can for 22.00 and to be honest with you,noticed no difference in performance,mpg,the BG service performed only at select dealers is highly recommended to clean inside the intake valves,which fuel system cleaners cannot achieve,last i heard its a couple hundred and only performed at select dealers.
The FI in-tank cleaner is good, but the induction service for DI engines is what you need, performed by an authorized dealer or service shop. As an aside, here's a link to knowing if you might have a leaky fuel injector (a known occasional problem with these engines):
http://diagnosecarproblems.blogspot.com/2012/06/leaky-injector-symptoms.html (http://diagnosecarproblems.blogspot.com/2012/06/leaky-injector-symptoms.html)
Quote from: SHOdded on January 25, 2015, 06:41:58 PM
The FI in-tank cleaner is good, but the induction service for DI engines is what you need, performed by an authorized dealer or service shop. As an aside, here's a link to knowing if you might have a leaky fuel injector (a known occasional problem with these engines):
http://diagnosecarproblems.blogspot.com/2012/06/leaky-injector-symptoms.html (http://diagnosecarproblems.blogspot.com/2012/06/leaky-injector-symptoms.html)
-MANU,you the MAN.
The only thing that makes me nervous about bringing it in to a dealer for cleaning is my brother-a certified machinist/mechanic for 28 years told me not to do it. He said he heard of bending valves and running large deposits through the turbos. He told me the same thing a Ford mechanic said which is NOT to have a dealership run any type of cleaner through the motor. Adding it to a tank of gas was recommended only!
By the way-I have 6 dealerships within 10 miles of my house that offers this cleaning and none of them are Ford service centers! Makes you wonder
This is the can of BG fuel system cleaner,purchased a while ago,for preventative maintenance and as a safeguard,add a can or two as SHOdded mentioned earlier. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDVU6EI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDVU6EI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Is that any different than SeaFoam or zMax? I have loads of both already for my other vehicles.
Anybody here up for tackling a DIY manual cleaning?
I used this with great results:
http://www.amazon.com/3M-39089-Fuel-System-Tune-Up/dp/B009PPL604/ref=dp_ob_title_auto (http://www.amazon.com/3M-39089-Fuel-System-Tune-Up/dp/B009PPL604/ref=dp_ob_title_auto)
With an induction system cleaning, you can get the best benefit with an oil/filter change shortly after, since the oil will get contaminated much quicker than in a normal drive cycle. Check the oil frequently after the change to see if it needs doing again.
If you are really concerned about bent valves etc. you could get a USB boroscope and have a looksee to find out how bad your SHO has it.
A summary of the carbon buildup issues and current thoughts on GDI maintenance/repair:
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/122014_7.pdf (http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/122014_7.pdf)
Good read... thanks Manu. It also clarifies the new 3.5 GDI with a parallel set of MP injectors as Ford is using in the new Ford GT.
Interesting read-wondering about the Ford program about changing out the heads under warranty! I'm guessing your engine would have to throw all kinds of codes for this to happen. I have close to 20k miles on mine and I don't feel even the slightest loss of power. I guess we'll have to keep our fingers crossed!
They also advocated cleanings to be done regularly at 15K to 20K mile intervals (I guess BG-type GDI-specific services) to avoid any chances of meteorite activity inside the engine. Now if we could lay down good percentages to figure out risk vs reward (rather than "I don't want to be the odd man out, so I am doing it"), that would be nice. Especially since one of the advocated "continuous" solutions (i.e., catch can) remains inconsistent in its' results.
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 15, 2015, 02:28:33 PM
Good read... thanks Manu. It also clarifies the new 3.5 GDI with a parallel set of MP injectors as Ford is using in the new Ford GT.
Could it simply be the extra MP injectors are nothing more than a necessity for additional fuel to get the power output vs. the need to keep carbon deposits down? Seems like the former would logically outweigh the latter...just food for thought is all.
Quote from: r1crusher on March 15, 2015, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 15, 2015, 02:28:33 PM
Good read... thanks Manu. It also clarifies the new 3.5 GDI with a parallel set of MP injectors as Ford is using in the new Ford GT.
Could it simply be the extra MP injectors are nothing more than a necessity for additional fuel to get the power output vs. the need to keep carbon deposits down? Seems like the former would logically outweigh the latter...just food for thought is all.
Possible... They haven't disclosed many details yet.
However, Mike's SHO makes 600+ AWHP with factory fuel system and meth injection (Dan Millen Dynotune)...The Ford GT is 600 CHP which is only about 500 RWHP... So the factory system can support that much power...The article Manu posted suggests that being able to spray fuel (even if only under a particular set of circumstances is a help for the carbon coking of intake valves making fuel additive cleaning useful.
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 15, 2015, 04:44:20 PM
Possible... They haven't disclosed many details yet.
However, Mike's SHO makes 600+ AWHP with factory fuel system and meth injection (Dan Millen Dynotune)...The Ford GT is 600 CHP which is only about 500 RWHP... So the factory system can support that much power...The article Manu posted suggests that being able to spray fuel (even if only under a particular set of circumstances is a help for the carbon coking of intake valves making fuel additive cleaning useful.
I didn't take the time to read the entire lengthy article nor have I looked or been privy to what some guys are making using the stock fueling...so thank you for that information. It would just seem odd for Ford to do that to the GT simply to keep the valves from coking up instead of just needing the extra fuel. That to me would indicate that Ford engineers are seeing something that they're not telling the GP (general public :) ).
Again, thanks for that info. I think I'm going do some more reading and possibly even take a poke at checking and cleaning out the IC. Tomorrow would be a good day since it'll be near 70 degrees here in Cinci.
It is entirely possible that Ford will crank up power 2x for its' racing applications. We have yet to hear about the limits of this setup (700 CHP is the rumored factory limit of the current stock 3.5EB setup, at least for the SHO).
Quote from: SHOdded on March 15, 2015, 06:59:56 PM
It is entirely possible that Ford will crank up power 2x for its' racing applications. We have yet to hear about the limits of this setup (700 CHP is the rumored factory limit of the current stock 3.5EB setup, at least for the SHO).
Granted new pistons, piston rods, deadbolts, etc, but if we look at Mike's... 617 AWHP + (.2 x 617) = 740.4 CHP ... so that's likely close.
Quote from: anthonylee337 on January 25, 2015, 07:22:06 PM
By the way-I have 6 dealerships within 10 miles of my house that offers this cleaning and none of them are Ford service centers! Makes you wonder
But....all 3 Ford dealers in MY area ARE BG service centers, and I had my dealer do the BG Fuel service on my SHO on my last oil change (at about 45k miles) seemed to smooth things out and my MPG bumped up a bit. SO....just because no locals does not mean no Ford dealers will do it. Next oil change I am going to have them do the driveline service including the PTU...
Here's a video before and after the BG service that I took awhile back.
http://youtu.be/Obg9QmIaCGc
http://youtu.be/8fnPAqxNQKo
I'll take another video soon to show if there's any difference after a few thousand miles.
Quote from: glock-coma on March 17, 2015, 03:55:08 PM
I'll take another video soon to show if there's any difference after a few thousand miles.
Some of the best news I've had all day :thumb:
I apologize for being a little bit off topic here but after installing just the RX cleanside oil seperator which is vented,and more than 500 miles removed the RX oil cap after the car was sitting about 4hrs or so,noticed oil coming out of it which i guess is a good thing.
And that's supposed to be 5% of what is actually circulating!
Quote from: glock-coma on March 17, 2015, 03:55:08 PM
I'll take another video soon to show if there's any difference after a few thousand miles.
Man, I watched those in hopes of a miracle cleanse. The stems looked to be the only thing cleaned in the process...?
How much fluid was in the CAC you think? I've only measured mine by sticking the oil dip stick in from our truck, only showed about 3/8".
Rich
Here's a video of draining the intercooler I took around the same time.
After all was said and done I got about 9 oz out. I'll be doing this again soon also.
http://youtu.be/LDvJwq7HXCc
Thank you
Rich
Quote from: glock-coma on March 17, 2015, 10:38:52 PM
Here's a video of draining the intercooler I took around the same time.
After all was said and done I got about 9 oz out. I'll be doing this again soon also.
http://youtu.be/LDvJwq7HXCc
Which side or the intercooler did you go in on?
That is the passenger side. Where the TB to cac tube is.
I actually jacked up the the drivers side to get the oil the flow to the passenger side
Quote from: glock-coma on March 18, 2015, 12:26:33 PM
That is the passenger side. Where the TB to cac tube is.
I actually jacked up the the drivers side to get the oil the flow to the passenger side
I put my oil dipstick in on that side and had nothing show up. Tired to get my little usb camera in to see but couldn't make the bend.
I did the same at first.
But once I jacked up the drivers side everything that was in between the fins and on the drivers side came flowing over.