I am thinking about upgrading my sub amp from a Pioneer GMD 8601 (24A continual power) to a Pioneer GMD 9601 (39A continual power). Can our stock alternator/power system handle this load? Currently, on the GMD 8601 amp, everything is good, no voltage drops etc. I have 2 runs of 6ga wire going to the amp if that makes a difference.
Thanks
Quote from: jtoddk98 on January 21, 2015, 10:20:53 PM
I am thinking about upgrading my sub amp from a Pioneer GMD 8601 (24A continual power) to a Pioneer GMD 9601 (39A continual power). Can our stock alternator/power system handle this load? Currently, on the GMD 8601 amp, everything is good, no voltage drops etc. I have 2 runs of 6ga wire going to the amp if that makes a difference.
Thanks
Dunno the amperage. 39 amps is not much load. You should be fine. I personally would use larger wire for cleaner power. Maybe 3 or 4 gauge. If the lights dim (doubtful) add a 2-4 farad cap.
You will be fine. If you do dim, buy bigger wire. More like 2 awg and stay away from capacitors. You would be 10x better buying a battery. A slow release battery.
Cliff note: change wire, if still dim check your ground. If still buy battery.
2 runs of 6ga isn't enough? I put the ends together into the amp. Almost a 2-3ga wire when put together. Each has an 80A inline fuse
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Your about to find out. If it dims, start with the wire.
Quote from: jtoddk98 on January 21, 2015, 11:24:27 PM
2 runs of 6ga isn't enough? I put the ends together into the amp. Almost a 2-3ga wire when put together. Each has an 80A inline fuse
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More than the gauge get wire braided fom the smallest wire fiber you can. Only surface electrons conduct electricity. IMHO, a single 2 gauge with 1000+ strands is vastly superior. Power will be cleaner (less non-music noise) and with a sub the conductors are their for those instantaneous needs of the sub when it needs to hit a really low note. Also I recommend going oxygen free wire.
Bigger ga wire (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-TnRfwUlF6GZ/learn/learningcenter/car/cable_gauge_chart.html) + second battery can't hurt! Battery = giant capacitor ;) If you have the stock-sized battery (650 CCA), I would definitely consider a second, trunk-mounted battery. You can PM Lanson see what he thinks (haven't seen him around here much lately).
(http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/ImageHandler/scale/500/330/products/2012/47/12c/h12cblchrt-o_large.jpeg)
The alternator (2010-12) looks to be 150 amps (that's what's listed for lower trim levels), 175 amps with heated/cooled seats, and 200 amps with the SHO. Not so clear on the 2013+ ...
http://allusedparts.com/ford/taurus/2010/alternator/ (http://allusedparts.com/ford/taurus/2010/alternator/)
BTW, any updates from the dealer visit?
Quote from: SHOdded on January 21, 2015, 11:34:50 PM
Bigger ga wire + second battery can't hurt! Battery = giant capacitor ;) If you have the stock-sized battery (650 CCA), I would definitely consider a second, trunk-mounted battery. You can PM Lanson see what he thinks (haven't seen him around here much lately).
The alternator (2010-12) looks to be 150 amps (that's what's listed for lower trim levels), 175 amps with heated/cooled seats, and 200 amps with the SHO. Not so clear on the 2013+ ...
http://allusedparts.com/ford/taurus/2010/alternator/ (http://allusedparts.com/ford/taurus/2010/alternator/)
BTW, any updates from the dealer visit?
im going to try out my 8601 amp first, got a good deal on 2 sundown audio 10s. They are rated at 500w rms and the amp currently puts out 800 rms(400 per sub). If I got the 9601 amp, it would put out 1200w rms(600 per sub) don't know if it would be a huge difference. And about the dealer, I'm going back in the morning because the sunroof is still leaking and they managed to break the driver side window switch panel out of the door. They now have to put in a whole new door panel because the tab that the switches go into is broken.
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Ugh! Hope they get it buttoned up properly on the next visit.
As far as batteries & alternators & capacitors go, here are a couple of articles that sum up what you want to do & why:
http://cartech.about.com/od/Power/fl/High-Output-Alternator-Car-Audio-Questions.htm (http://cartech.about.com/od/Power/fl/High-Output-Alternator-Car-Audio-Questions.htm)
http://cartech.about.com/od/Car-Audio/f/Do-I-Need-An-Extra-Battery-For-My-High-End-Car-Audio-System.htm (http://cartech.about.com/od/Car-Audio/f/Do-I-Need-An-Extra-Battery-For-My-High-End-Car-Audio-System.htm)
http://cartech.about.com/od/Car-Audio/a/Car-Audio-Capacitors.htm (http://cartech.about.com/od/Car-Audio/a/Car-Audio-Capacitors.htm)
Good reading! I wonder if I'll even notice the difference between 400 and 600 rms per sub. The new sundowns are rated at 500rms but sundown is famous for underrating.
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Sundown under rates everything. I remember seeing the sa-8 on 1k watts and it still sohnding good. I had there saz-3000d and it was rated at 3k@1ohm and it clamped close to 3400 at 1 ohm and almost 4k at .5 ohm. Thing was a beast
On my truck I used 1/0 gauge wire going to a dry cell battery I put behind the seat next to the amp. That's the correct way to supply a large amount of amps. But I was pulling a lot more than 39.
Try the larger wire first.
Would I see a big difference between 400 and 600w per sub?
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Quote from: jtoddk98 on January 22, 2015, 08:15:55 AM
Would I see a big difference between 400 and 600w per sub?
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Double your power, increase output by 3db = doubling of sound output.
50% increase would be 1.5db, big difference to your ears/sound pressure.
Current consumption for the amp is 39A and the average current drawn at 1ohm is 7.5A. So wouldn't 6 ga wire work since it is rated at 55A. Also, I am only running 10.5Ft of cable, not much.
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What is the peak draw on the amp? 39A is continual, right? If you have at least 10% headroom from the peak draw (using the chart above), you should be good. Just use QUALITY wire & terminations.
In the owner's manual, it says max is 1,000W at 4 ohms. 12v*83A = 1,000W. So your wire should handle 100A load to be safe & with good sound, from my understanding. If I am correct, you would need at least 4 gauge wiring.
Quote from: SHOdded on January 28, 2015, 08:54:55 AM
What is the peak draw on the amp? 39A is continual, right? If you have at least 10% headroom from the peak draw (using the chart above), you should be good. Just use QUALITY wire & terminations.
In the owner's manual, it says max is 1,000W at 4 ohms. 12v*83A = 1,000W. So your wire should handle 100A load to be safe & with good sound, from my understanding. If I am correct, you would need at least 4 gauge wiring.
found a Rockford Fosgate Lightning audio 4ga kit on Amazon for $40 and prime shipping. Should I go for it? http://www.amazon.com/Lightning-Rockford-Fosgate-Amplifier-Installation/dp/B00PB4BEE6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1422458933&sr=8-4&keywords=4ga+amp+kit
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From the looks of it, and the reviews, powerwise you are good to go, hopefully they include everything specified in this kit. The signal cable may not be the best, but you'll have to try it to see what you think. In theory, twisted pair should take care of most hum/interference. If the RCAs fit tightly onto the jacks, that is also a plus.
Quote from: SHOdded on January 28, 2015, 10:42:35 AM
From the looks of it, and the reviews, powerwise you are good to go, hopefully they include everything specified in this kit. The signal cable may not be the best, but you'll have to try it to see what you think. In theory, twisted pair should take care of most hum/interference. If the RCAs fit tightly onto the jacks, that is also a plus.
i actually won't need any of the other stuff in the kit other then the power stuff. I already have a sub in my car, I am just upgrading.
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I have a couple cars of mine with audio upgrades,always recommend to add a noise filter,for noise suppression. http://www.amazon.com/BOSS-Audio-B25N-Ground-Isolator/dp/B000LP4RMG/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=157BXA8A8907P38QDTC0 (http://www.amazon.com/BOSS-Audio-B25N-Ground-Isolator/dp/B000LP4RMG/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=157BXA8A8907P38QDTC0) and of couse as mentioned by SHOdded a capacitor is suitable to prolong the battery life,efficiency.
All installed. The lights don't dim really. At night, headlights on, ac on, and the engine at idle. The interior lights just bearly dimmed. All good
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C'mon, let's see pics ;) Enjoy the results!
Tapatalk wouldn't let me add a more high quality picture. Would I benefit from upgrading my battery from 650cca to 850cca? The incandescent lights do dim just a bit and the rpm drops when idiling.
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Might help... And I assume your power source for you amp is directly off the battery and not from a blank in a fuse box.
Usually the scenario means the alternator is not putting out enough current. You had headlights and ac on at the time though, right? How is it at cruise/higher rpm? Alternator output is minimal at idle. Like BiGMaC said, higher capacity battery will help. Did you have the battery replaced recently?
Quote from: SHOdded on January 31, 2015, 10:24:39 PM
Usually the scenario means the alternator is not putting out enough current. You had headlights and ac on at the time though, right? How is it at cruise/higher rpm? Alternator output is minimal at idle. Like BiGMaC said, higher capacity battery will help. Did you have the battery replaced recently?
power is coming direct from the battery, 4Ga wire and a big 2ga ground. The battery was replaced back in March 2014 with a Ford Motorcraft battery 650cca. so it's not that old. At cruise, voltage is good, no dimming. It's mainly at idle.
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If you want to investigate further, check current draw with EVERYTHING off, doors closed, key out of ignition etc. Disconnect the negative terminal. Bridge the post and terminal with a multimeter set to read AMPS (multimeter should have a high range/capacity, I usually see 10A spec'd; start with largest AMP setting, work your way down to milliAmps as needed). Ideally, you will have < 50 mA or so "parasitic" draw at this point.
Switch the multimeter back to the highest AMP setting. After that, turn on your audio system and see how much current it draws, in your implementation. Turn off the audio system, then turn on your headlights to get the current draw from that. Then you will have a better idea how much power demand you are putting on the system (except for A/C of course) while idling.
All these tests are without starting the engine.
http://www.d-series.org/forums/665906-post1.html (http://www.d-series.org/forums/665906-post1.html)
There are videos on YT also on how to do this.
And just for you: http://www.aa1car.com/library/alternator_highoutput.htm (http://www.aa1car.com/library/alternator_highoutput.htm)
I only skimmed a few of the posts so sorry if I repeat something.
Do NOT get an extra 12.6V battery to help with dimming. They are for extended car off play time only. Batteries only supply power when the car is off and are actually an extra load on the charging system once the car is running. After the car starts its all on the alternator for providing power unless you max out the current capacity of the alt and/or its wiring. If you're voltage goes below 12.6 with the car running you're maxing out the alternator and you'll burn it up in short order with the battery and starter following right behind. Only under 12.6V with the car running are you using any output from the battery.
Alternators, even a lot of high current ones, suck at idle. The easiest advice would be to just turn it down then. Incandescent lights dim when the voltage goes down. The voltage goes down when the alternator can't supply enough current at 14.4V to meet demand. Bigger wires to the amp or amp ground won't stop the dimming because the amp is already pulling more current then the alternator (or its power connections) can supply at 14.4.
Have you done the "big 3" upgrade? They're very important and can't be overlooked. Most stock wiring just has a tiny 10 or 8 awg ground strap going from the engine block to the frame. You need to make sure you can get all the current out of the alternator with as little restriction possible. You'll need to run a heavy ground from (usually) the alternator's mounting bolt to a very good chassis ground, the same gauge wire from that chassis ground to the negative battery terminal, and the same gauge wire from the alternator's positive post to the battery (replacing stock cable).
People will argue about them but I think stiffening caps can help in limited situations though you would need a big amount of storage in them. They charge at the voltage of the alternator and release current at that same voltage so it can help. But they can only supply power for very short bursts (unless you have HUGE banks) and once that power is gone they're another load until it quickly charges back up. Well designed amps should already have enough caps in them to work well on a properly working charging system.
The voltage never goes below 13.7v at idle with them going. When driving, it's fine.
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