Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Ecoboost Tuning! => Datalogging and Gauges => Topic started by: Gray Brick on December 24, 2014, 01:41:37 AM

Title: Max boost
Post by: Gray Brick on December 24, 2014, 01:41:37 AM
What is the max boost the factory SHOFlex turbos are capable of?


Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: BiGMaC on December 24, 2014, 02:25:43 AM
17-18 psi ... Less when ambient temps are lower.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Gray Brick on December 24, 2014, 03:20:15 AM
What options are available for upgraded turbos?
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: SHOdded on December 24, 2014, 06:23:06 AM
One option:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,1140.msg12236.html#msg12236 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,1140.msg12236.html#msg12236)
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=126381 (http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=126381)
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-SHO-001&Category_Code= (http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-SHO-001&Category_Code=)

Not listed on BMR's product page currently as site absobs EcoPowerParts.  Call them for pricing/availability.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Gray Brick on December 25, 2014, 12:06:07 AM
So who is running these?
What is your max HP/TQ?
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: wasinger3000 on December 25, 2014, 11:52:09 PM
I've had my turbos up to 25 psi with meth. No issue yet.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: BiGMaC on December 26, 2014, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on December 25, 2014, 11:52:09 PM
I've had my turbos up to 25 psi with meth. No issue yet.

These are upgraded turbos, right? 

I'm confused as to why meth injection is an issue in this case?  Aren't you injecting into the post IC charge pipe?
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: wasinger3000 on December 26, 2014, 01:21:20 AM
Quote from: BiGMaC on December 26, 2014, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on December 25, 2014, 11:52:09 PM
I've had my turbos up to 25 psi with meth. No issue yet.

These are upgraded turbos, right? 

I'm confused as to why meth injection is an issue in this case?  Aren't you injecting into the post IC charge pipe?
There's no issue with meth. They are stock turbos on my car. Without meth the boost at higher pressures would also be at very high temperatures. Which is not useful.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Gray Brick on December 26, 2014, 04:11:16 AM
What do I need to do to get more boost?
Is there something needed to have Torrie increase the boost to a higher level?

I am seeing 16-17 psi with the 50/50 meth.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: crash712us on December 26, 2014, 01:49:58 PM
Don't want to start anything but we have only one person that claims they are running 25lbs of boost on stock turbo no less. Guys that have modified turbo's and make over 600whp don't run that type of boost. Why that is? I don't know.


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Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: BiGMaC on December 26, 2014, 02:03:43 PM
Quote from: crash712us on December 26, 2014, 01:49:58 PM
Don't want to start anything but we have only one person that claims they are running 25lbs of boost on stock turbo no less. Guys that have modified turbo's and make over 600whp don't run that type of boost. Why that is? I don't know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Boost is determined by many things... But more boost is not necessarily more HP... I remember Dave's Dyno tune with Dan Millen earlier this year... ended up with more HP than he ever made... and 20% less boost used
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: crash712us on December 26, 2014, 02:06:55 PM
Correct. I am just not going to speculate as to this specific situation.


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Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: SHOdded on December 26, 2014, 04:43:46 PM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on December 25, 2014, 11:52:09 PM
I've had my turbos up to 25 psi with meth. No issue yet.
Max boost or sustained boost, wasinger?
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on December 26, 2014, 11:47:59 PM
I'm curious about ambient, cac, and iat2 temps at this boost level....
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: wasinger3000 on December 27, 2014, 12:14:49 AM
Quote from: crash712us on December 26, 2014, 01:49:58 PM
Don't want to start anything but we have only one person that claims they are running 25lbs of boost on stock turbo no less. Guys that have modified turbo's and make over 600whp don't run that type of boost. Why that is? I don't know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's not a "claim" it's a fact and I've seen it numerous times in a mechanical boost gauge. It is not sustained boost at 25 psi. It is a peak number. I'm not saying it's making more power or that it is what people should be running. Simply saying these turbos can and will produce 25 psi.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Gray Brick on December 27, 2014, 01:28:50 AM
Here is tonight's screenshot...

Chilly out...

Is there any more power left in the tune to be had?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Josephm on December 27, 2014, 02:54:22 AM
Doing any e85?
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: crash712us on December 27, 2014, 08:45:47 AM
My statement does not negate your "claim" And is exactly what I wanted to avoid. But your continued posts of 25lbs of boost makes other think there is something wrong with there cars. Spikes are irrelevant and prove nothing, stock turbo's are capable producing boost pressures into the 30lbs range. But again irrelevant, cause it well beyond the turbo's peak efficiency. Max boost means absolutely nothing, its the volume of air that turbo can displace efficiently.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: gad on December 27, 2014, 09:15:06 AM
Do you have results to the track with 25 psi run?
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: SHOnUup on December 27, 2014, 09:17:36 AM
Quote from: crash712us on December 27, 2014, 08:45:47 AM
My statement does not negate your "claim" And is exactly what I wanted to avoid. But your continued posts of 25lbs of boost makes other think there is something wrong with there cars. Spikes are irrelevant and prove nothing, stock turbo's are capable producing boost pressures into the 30lbs range. But again irrelevant, cause it well beyond the turbo's peak efficiency. Max boost means absolutely nothing, its the volume of air that turbo can displace efficiently.
Where would you consider efficient?

I'm thinking 13 - 14?

Rich

Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: wasinger3000 on December 27, 2014, 09:39:08 AM
Quote from: crash712us on December 27, 2014, 08:45:47 AM
My statement does not negate your "claim" And is exactly what I wanted to avoid. But your continued posts of 25lbs of boost makes other think there is something wrong with there cars. Spikes are irrelevant and prove nothing, stock turbo's are capable producing boost pressures into the 30lbs range. But again irrelevant, cause it well beyond the turbo's peak efficiency. Max boost means absolutely nothing, its the volume of air that turbo can displace efficiently.
Hah, you must not have read the post then. I already said what you are saying. But ok, I'll leave it there. 
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: 91hybrid on December 27, 2014, 09:46:24 AM
Well, since no one has a compressor map for these the only real way to tell is through measuring the out temperature vs the inlet temperature.

One can get a feel for how hard they are pushing the turbos by looking at the waste gate duty cycle but one needs to understand how maps work with the mass flow and pressure ratio to guess where they would be on the map.

Efficiency is temperature. The loss of efficiency results in hotter output. The flow is there, it's just could be 250 degree instead of 100. Inner coolers and meth come into play to "cheat" the efficiency by cooling the charge back down to a normal temperature that would mimic some one running a turbo in peak efficiency.

John
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: ZSHO on December 27, 2014, 09:50:51 AM
In general wouldnt elevation also play a role in more accurate boost readings,and also altitude can spike the readings.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: SHOdded on December 27, 2014, 09:58:08 AM
Useful or not?  You decide:
http://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/altitude-effects-intake-boost-pressure-52371/ (http://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/altitude-effects-intake-boost-pressure-52371/)
http://www.dieselarmy.com/engine-tech/boosting-altitude-elevation-effects-turbochargers/ (http://www.dieselarmy.com/engine-tech/boosting-altitude-elevation-effects-turbochargers/)
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: Larrylu on December 27, 2014, 11:09:37 AM
Best read I've seen in a while!  Thanks for posting. Complex topic for sure.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: 91hybrid on December 27, 2014, 11:58:10 AM
So if anyone who reads that attachment starts to think....how does density altitude matter then in my car?

Really the only output to da is temperature. Lower da causes pressure ratio to rise which depending on a specific compressor map can move it to the next lower effiency zone. Which in the grand scheme of things is probably pretty small.

The real part of da that drives performance is temperature. Da is comprised of pressure, temperature and humidity. Our cars as discussed above will make the pressure regardless of atmospheric pressure but temperature is the key for us.

With cooler temperatures, our turbo inlet temps are lower so the output will be lower relative and the innercoolers are more efficient both of which result in lower intake charge temperature that do nothing more than to allow us to increase timing. This increase timing (reduced knock) is the power gains people feel. There is a density increase of the charge too (in accordance to ideal gas law) cooler temps same pressure = denser charge, but there is more power to be made through timing then the density differential. Unless of course the temperatures are like 75 deg verses 250 degree that is.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: BiGMaC on December 27, 2014, 12:12:24 PM
Well said 91.... In fact to go a step further, that's why i am seriously looking into meth.. the drop the TB take temp 50 degrees or so and have the "increased octane rating" caused by the meth... all of which allows several changes including a lot of timing advance.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: SHOnUup on December 27, 2014, 12:45:41 PM
Humidity plays a large role in the density of the air also right?

Isn't there less oxygen in the air at higher altitudes, so even though the pressure is there, you're still not getting enough oxygen to burn?

Rich

Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: 91hybrid on December 27, 2014, 12:53:27 PM
Humidity measured in grains per pound of air does matter. Pressure and temp are "generally" bigger levers so to speak but humidity plays a part.

When you go to a track in the mountains the da is lower because of the lower atmospheric pressure even with equal temperature and lower humidity thus slower times.  Pressure is the biggest lever followed by temperature, then humidity.

Pumping water is never fun.
Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: SHOnUup on December 27, 2014, 01:09:03 PM
Thank you ^^^

Rich

Title: Re: Max boost
Post by: panther427 on December 28, 2014, 01:24:11 PM
What is your negative readings at idle aat sea level
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