Just picked up my first Ford in years a 2014 SHO non-PP but has everything else on it so I'm learning something about the tech everyday. My question is all of the performance numbers HP and MPG have an asterisk that says they were based upon premium fuel. Yet the owners manual says 87 octane is fine but you'll get better performance with premium but no details. The dealer gave me the car with a full tank of gas and it too was 87 octane.
So this is my company car and I'll put 40K a year on it for four years before the next one and I'm coming out of a very fun Infiniti EX35 AWD that was a blast but needed premium fuel. I'm looking forward to regular 87 octane but I'm then curious how close to the 25 mpg. estimate will I get cruising @ 72 mph.
At 2000 miles I'll try five tanks of mid-grade and compare the numbers and then I'll try five tanks of premium. Has anyone done this before and save me the research?
Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.
I have personally seen a slight decrease in mpg using 87, however price still made 87 cheaper. I noticed a power difference too. Even on a stage 4 lms tune I get close to 25 highway.
Why get a sports sedan if you plan on running 87? I understand the fun part but you got to pay to play
I'd rather just spend the $5-10 more per tank to have more power available. That and it's better for the engine.
Sent using smoke signals.
Welcome to the community, and congrats on your ride of choice!
As long as you trust the 87 octane fuel you are putting into the engine, you should be fine with it. Since the SHO is turbocharged, detonation is more of an issue )even with modern engine management) than it would be in a naturally aspirated vehicle. In our area, we have had bouts of poor gasoline quality (comparing same station, different times). If ethanol is being added to your gas, you may actually be BELOW 87 in reality, which you absolutely don't want. 89 gives you that cushion of safety if you do not know the quality of gas being pumped in. Thus, 93 is recommended for best performance, mpg, and reliability. IF you drive gently, 87 should be fine. If you are a leadfoot, 93 is your best choice. 91 if 93 not available in your area.
If/when you decide to tune your SHO, you will likely see noticeable improvements in mpg (no matter the grade of gasoline) and performance. Livernois Motorsports and Unleashed Tuning are your top 2 options in this area, and based on reports so far, you will be very pleased with either choice.
If fuel is a problem when modding (and it seems to be) then I would not feel comfortable putting anything less than mid grade.
For years and years I put 87 ontane in my old explorer until the car would not start,changed the gas pump and could not believe all the s,,,t in the filter
Welcome to the community!
I'm sure you will enjoy the SHO no matter if you remain stock or tuned/modified. It is a truly fun and fantastic car.
With that being said IMHO 87 octane is a poor choice of fuel. I have owned a force inducted vehicle since about the time I started driving (17 years). And I have always used premium fuel in them. For states that it is acceptable but premium is recommended. Around here premium is 30¢ more per gallon than 87. That works out to around $5-6 dollars per fill up. In most places that's less than a pack of smokes. Well worth the cost to ensure your car is performing safely and reliably at the power levels it was designed for.
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a SHO as a complany car?
must be nice.
Quote from: QwikSHO on June 05, 2014, 11:24:13 AM
a SHO as a complany car?
must be nice.
I assume he owns the company- like a Realtor or consultant.
I might put 87 octane in it with a stock tune if I was going on a road trip on flat low altitude roads, anything other that and I wouldn't run anything other than premium.
You have a twin turbo DI high compression motor, too many things to go bad, I'd rather have the safety margin of the higher octane. These cars respond amazingly to octane differences and will pull massive amounts of timing on 87 octane to stop the knock. FYI in the F150 world it has been noted that quite a few trucks have blown their motor running 87 octane.
This octane issue is one of the reasons why I'm such a huge proponent of running e85 mixture. Run 14 gal e10 91/89/87 and 5 gal E85. I guess you could cheap on out on 87 and put in some e85 to make up for the difference.
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html)
87 Octane mix
19.00 gallons
91.7 octane
29.7% ethanol (or E30)
91 Octane mix
19.00 gallons
94.7 octane
29.7% ethanol (or E30)
93 Octane mix
19.00 gallons
96.2 octane
29.7% ethanol (or E30)
On a stock tune I would be you'd see quite a bit of HP increase between the mixes as the ECU will add timing naturally.
Quote from: 4DRHTRD on June 05, 2014, 12:59:03 PM
I might put 87 octane in it with a stock tune if I was going on a road trip on flat low altitude roads, anything other that and I wouldn't run anything other than premium.
You have a twin turbo DI high compression motor, too many things to go bad, I'd rather have the safety margin of the higher octane. These cars respond amazingly to octane differences and will pull massive amounts of timing on 87 octane to stop the knock. FYI in the F150 world it has been noted that quite a few trucks have blown their motor running 87 octane.
This octane issue is one of the reasons why I'm such a huge proponent of running e85 mixture. Run 14 gal e10 91/89/87 and 5 gal E85. I guess you could cheap on out on 87 and put in some e85 to make up for the difference.
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html)
87 Octane mix
19.00 gallons
91.7 octane
29.7% ethanol (or E30)
91 Octane mix
19.00 gallons
94.7 octane
29.7% ethanol (or E30)
93 Octane mix
19.00 gallons
96.2 octane
29.7% ethanol (or E30)
On a stock tune I would be you'd see quite a bit of HP increase between the mixes as the ECU will add timing naturally.
Question, will the stock fuel system handle the 30% mix? The max on the fill tube says 10% max?
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Yes it's been verified a ton
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18 gallons of fuel @ .40¢ extra a gallon for premium = $7.20
To me its crazy to let $7.20 stand in the way of extra performance and better gas millage
Quote from: goblues38 on June 05, 2014, 02:08:45 PM
18 gallons of fuel @ .40¢ extra a gallon for premium = $7.20
To me its crazy to let $7.20 stand in the way of extra performance and better gas millage
That's a bit narrow sighted math over the course of 40k miles. So I see the reason behind the question, however I use the highest grade I can too.
Quote from: J-Will on June 05, 2014, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: goblues38 on June 05, 2014, 02:08:45 PM
18 gallons of fuel @ .40¢ extra a gallon for premium = $7.20
To me its crazy to let $7.20 stand in the way of extra performance and better gas millage
That's a bit narrow sighted math over the course of 40k miles. So I see the reason behind the question, however I use the highest grade I can too.
With an average of 375 miles per tank over the life of 40,000 miles at a cost of 7.20 extra per tank it would cost you 768.00.
I think that's a price worth paying for increased performace, engine health, and a more enjoyable experience.
Sent using smoke signals.
Quote from: wasinger3000 on June 05, 2014, 02:24:49 PM
Quote from: J-Will on June 05, 2014, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: goblues38 on June 05, 2014, 02:08:45 PM
18 gallons of fuel @ .40¢ extra a gallon for premium = $7.20
To me its crazy to let $7.20 stand in the way of extra performance and better gas millage
That's a bit narrow sighted math over the course of 40k miles. So I see the reason behind the question, however I use the highest grade I can too.
With an average of 375 miles per tank over the life of 40,000 miles at a cost of 7.20 extra per tank it would cost you 768.00.
I think that's a price worth paying for increased performace, engine health, and a more enjoyable experience.
Sent using smoke signals.
Here's another thought to add about the life of it over 40k. For me, I averaged 16.9 (lets round to 17) with 87. with 91 (best we got), It is about 17.5. So, here's the math, in basic form. Over the course of 40k, my Flex consumes ~2352.94 gal with 87, and 2285.71 with 91. That's 67.23 gal less with 91. A gallon costs about 20 cents more being premium where I'm at. At 3.65 per gallon average with 2352.94 gallons consumed, that's $8588.23 total. For 3.85 premium, it runs $8799.98 so running premium means I spent $211 more to run.
With a tune, this would negate as I could get 1mpg better, not 1/2 mpg better.
Quote from: Lanson on June 05, 2014, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on June 05, 2014, 02:24:49 PM
Quote from: J-Will on June 05, 2014, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: goblues38 on June 05, 2014, 02:08:45 PM
18 gallons of fuel @ .40¢ extra a gallon for premium = $7.20
To me its crazy to let $7.20 stand in the way of extra performance and better gas millage
That's a bit narrow sighted math over the course of 40k miles. So I see the reason behind the question, however I use the highest grade I can too.
With an average of 375 miles per tank over the life of 40,000 miles at a cost of 7.20 extra per tank it would cost you 768.00.
I think that's a price worth paying for increased performace, engine health, and a more enjoyable experience.
Sent using smoke signals.
Here's another thought to add about the life of it over 40k. For me, I averaged 16.9 (lets round to 17) with 87. with 91 (best we got), It is about 17.5. So, here's the math, in basic form. Over the course of 40k, my Flex consumes ~2352.94 gal with 87, and 2285.71 with 91. That's 67.23 gal less with 91. A gallon costs about 20 cents more being premium where I'm at. At 3.65 per gallon average with 2352.94 gallons consumed, that's $8588.23 total. For 3.85 premium, it runs $8799.98 so running premium means I spent $211 more to run.
With a tune, this would negate as I could get 1mpg better, not 1/2 mpg better.
Excellent point. We could also add another variable. Adding lucas UCL for me nets a bonus 2 mpg. But I'll spare the long winded math that would require.
Sent using smoke signals.
2MPG?!!?
Dude, Ford would KILL to have that much improvement. They fight tooth and nail for a .2 increase.
I would make very, very sure that all variables have been accounted for when factoring that the Lucas thing worked like that.
Quote from: Lanson on June 05, 2014, 06:30:06 PM
2MPG?!!?
Dude, Ford would KILL to have that much improvement. They fight tooth and nail for a .2 increase.
I would make very, very sure that all variables have been accounted for when factoring that the Lucas thing worked like that.
Oh belive me. I have. Over 6 different vehicles I've tested on 50-100 mile trips.
Some vehicles get worse milage on lucas. Like the 5.4L/4.6Lfamily.
granted it's hard to get two trips the same since weather is always changing it's hard to get serious 100% accurate data. But from my tests, my own non believing eyes see a 2 mpg gain in my 13 sho. (On average) 2 weeks ago I did a 110 mile trip one way and managed 27.6mpg. On the way back I did 26.4mpg. 8 days ago I did the exact same trip without any fuel additive, in similar weather conditions.
My fuel milage going to was 25.4mpg. On the way back I managed 24.1mpg.
On my f150 eco it is unresponsive to lucas and sees miniscule gains.
Just what I have experienced.
Sent using smoke signals.
Quote from: Lanson on June 05, 2014, 06:30:06 PM
2MPG?!!?
Dude, Ford would KILL to have that much improvement. They fight tooth and nail for a .2 increase.
I would make very, very sure that all variables have been accounted for when factoring that the Lucas thing worked like that.
Ford knows.
But how does that increase work with a bunch of sheep that they can't even get to do basic maintenance at proper intervals? Its not something they can use for CAFE estimates so it's useless to them.
I also know of a parts hauling company that has 3 ford vans over one million miles, 2 over 500k. They've replaced quite a few trannys but no engines, no overhaul. Wanna know what they put in their oil?
I'm skeptical as hell about any oil additive but this one has me scratching my head...
To respond to the original topic, my 11 says 87 is ok, but recommends 91+ in hot weather "for better performance" and such.
With the heat the eb motors generate and high ambient temps, some detonation is probably likely at lower octanes and high ambient temps.
I ran regular (87) through the winter and have been running 92-93 since April. The eb ran amazing on those cool spring mornings regardless of the octane!
I drive a lot, not as much as you, but I do about 25K annually and have switched between tanks of 87 and 93 octane. I get much better performance on the 93, and roughly 2MPG better gas mileage cruising between 75 and 80 MPH.
On 87 octane the car pulls a ridiculous amount of timing when it's hot out. It wasn't bad back in early March, but now there is a major difference between 87 and 93 right now.
Personally I'm done with 87 in my car for the summer at least.. I much rather price shop to find decent priced 93 (Costco or the local HEB gas stations are usually least expensive) than sacrifice the performance. In the hot Texas weather it really is a night and day difference. The car will be fine on 87 though if you want to save the coin. I go through about 2 tanks a week, and right now there's a 30 to 40 cent difference between gas grades right now.
I would say get a tank of 87 and drive around like you normally do... get the tank pretty empty then fill up with a good 93 like Shell and then go repeat your normal drive. The 93 is a lot more responsive and pulls stronger on the top end.
Thanks Skippy and all who have replied. Was on my first road trip for work with the new ride 600 miles round trip still on the 87 octane and no I don't own the company but have a great couple of owners that are vary generous with me...I do consider it quite the perk and a blessing. Set the cruise on 73 mph and love that it looks like 2K on the tach...nice! All highway 25.8 mpg temp in the 70's no wind at all no AC on...very surprised. For what it's worth premium around me is now $4.19 and 87 octane is $3.79.
Ride home same route 82 temp still light winds but had the AC on...25.4 mpg...I'm happy with those numbers right out of the chute. I do have an annoying wind turbulence caused rattle coming from my outside mirror or the A pillar otherwise I loved the smooth soft ride and how quiet it is...my music masks the rattle noise. I know it is suppose to be a fun handling car but it is 300+ lbs. more than the Infiniti I just came out of and that was nibble quick...I love the softer feeling even with the 20's it rides like a nice big sedan.
I have a C6 Corvette M6 Z51 with an Edelbrock SC that makes 600 hp 500/470 rwhp and that see's nothing but premium no ethanol and has 15 degree's of timing in it. My wrench used HP tuners and I learned a ton about the magic of a performance tune so I can appreciate where many of you are coming from with the PP and a quality tune! But this will be just a stock SHO for me but with a possibility of buying this one when it gets cycled out and if I do then some performance mods and a tune and a new smile.
I will keep everyone posted as I do my gas comparison study over the next 5000 miles or so. I haven't driven it like I stole it yet and used the paddle shifters and take it close to redline but it sure was fun stepping out and passing some problem drivers I love the torque and 60-100 is very easy...all smiles so far!
Thanks everyone.