Hi All-
I have about 500 miles on my wife's Sport now. Wanted to break it in like Stacy suggested to set the rings in. But diddn't want to get to happy with high rpm's untill the catch can install do to the the poor pcv, evacuation system. So up till about 300 miles I would load the engine down using the paddle shifters at between 1/2 and 3/4 throttle. (worked great) Power felt good.
Now with the catch can Installed I drove it pretty hard with full throttle blasts. Pretty disappointed with the full trottle power. It seems it has the same power output at 1/2 and 3/4 throttle as it does at full. There is no torque steer.
Before we bought the 2014, I was able to test drive a 2013 with 25K on the clock for a week...granted it was when it was cold and we had better air but that thing had scary torque steer and had a lot more full throttle power. when you nailed it at 55-60 mph the torque steer was incredible, and frankly was worried that it was to much for the wife...not with our 2014...it has just a hint and just doesn't feel like it has the power.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Guy
It will likely get better with more miles - with only 500 miles, everything is still pretty tight. As for torque steer, I am surprised that you found the 2013 to have "scary" torque steer. That makes me wonder if there was something wrong with it. You shouldn't experience much torque steer.
Is she up for tuning your XSport?
Any tune should improve your problem.
The new LMS v8 with 3BAR MAP is smooth power and the new turbo map puts increased power throughout the throttle... with no perceptible turbo lag.
The 2013 you test drove must not have been an SHO as I have never experienced torque steer as you mentioned.
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 22, 2014, 09:37:43 AM
Is she up for tuning your XSport?
Any tune should improve your problem.
The new LMS v8 with 3BAR MAP is smooth power and the new turbo map puts increased power throughout the throttle... with no perceptible turbo lag.
Thanks for the inputs!
Yea, she just trusts my decisions...when it comes to our cars :hmmm:
I think there might be a problem and agree a tune would be one way too fix it, if the problem is with mapping. But would it have to run higher octane all the time with that tune?
I remember having a '01 7.3 diesel that only got 14 mpg's empty. Since I worked at a Ford dealer at the time they had it in weekly if not daily trying to fix it...they couldn't. I put a tune in it and emmediately got 21-22 hwy.
So you say it shouldn't have any torque steer? interesting.
Btw- this Sport is getting 19 average mpg even with beating on it...thought that is pretty good...
Guy
Quote from: SRT82ECOBOOST on April 22, 2014, 09:51:37 AM
The 2013 you test drove must not have been an SHO as I have never experienced torque steer as you mentioned.
It was an X/Sport. Why no torque steer on the SHO? Do these have something to counertact this?
I must be missing something.
Quote from: POPSTAGE2 on April 22, 2014, 10:02:37 AM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 22, 2014, 09:37:43 AM
Is she up for tuning your XSport?
Any tune should improve your problem.
The new LMS v8 with 3BAR MAP is smooth power and the new turbo map puts increased power throughout the throttle... with no perceptible turbo lag.
Thanks for the inputs!
Yea, she just trusts my decisions...when it comes to our cars :hmmm:
I think there might be a problem and agree a tune would be one way too fix it, if the problem is with mapping. But would it have to run higher octane all the time with that tune?
I remember having a '01 7.3 diesel that only got 14 mpg's empty. Since I worked at a Ford dealer at the time they had it in weekly if not daily trying to fix it...they couldn't. I put a tune in it and emmediately got 21-22 hwy.
So you say it shouldn't have any torque steer? interesting.
Btw- this Sport is getting 19 average mpg even with beating on it...thought that is pretty good...
Guy
The tunes are written for the available octane... 91 or 93 standard (others can be had). I carry both when traveling because you never know what will be available in a given state and the change takes 5 minutes.... if you're not burning premium that could be part of the sluggishness you notice.
As far as torque steer... if you have the grannies on it should limit itself... check you settings... if it still does TQ steering after they are set to "on" then I'd have the dealer take a look since I've never heard this complaint before.... makes me think something may not be working properly.
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 22, 2014, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: POPSTAGE2 on April 22, 2014, 10:02:37 AM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 22, 2014, 09:37:43 AM
Is she up for tuning your XSport?
Any tune should improve your problem.
The new LMS v8 with 3BAR MAP is smooth power and the new turbo map puts increased power throughout the throttle... with no perceptible turbo lag.
Thanks for the inputs!
Yea, she just trusts my decisions...when it comes to our cars :hmmm:
I think there might be a problem and agree a tune would be one way too fix it, if the problem is with mapping. But would it have to run higher octane all the time with that tune?
I remember having a '01 7.3 diesel that only got 14 mpg's empty. Since I worked at a Ford dealer at the time they had it in weekly if not daily trying to fix it...they couldn't. I put a tune in it and emmediately got 21-22 hwy.
So you say it shouldn't have any torque steer? interesting.
Btw- this Sport is getting 19 average mpg even with beating on it...thought that is pretty good...
Guy
The tunes are written for the available octane... 91 or 93 standard (others can be had). I carry both when traveling because you never know what will be available in a given state and the change takes 5 minutes.... if you're not burning premium that could be part of the sluggishness you notice.
As far as torque steer... if you have the grannies on it should limit itself... check you settings... if it still does TQ steering after they are set to "on" then I'd have the dealer take a look since I've never heard this complaint before.... makes me think something may not be working properly.
Really? There's a limit setting? Feeling kinda stupid now.
I will play with that.
Thanks!
Guy
Btw- 91 octane since new...
BiGMaC-
I don't understand the "setting" you're talking about? I looked in the manual, nothing. Thought maybe the Valet setting... that's not it , that just locks out MFT.
When we picked it up new, the dealer did say there is a way to limit speed or the power...don't remember which, but either one I don't believe that is possible...I think they were wrong.
Quote from: POPSTAGE2 on April 23, 2014, 04:28:11 PM
BiGMaC-
I don't understand the "setting" you're talking about? I looked in the manual, nothing. Thought maybe the Valet setting... that's not it , that just locks out MFT.
When we picked it up new, the dealer did say there is a way to limit speed or the power...don't remember which, but either one I don't believe that is possible...I think they were wrong.
Creating a "My Key" can limit speed if it is used to start the car... a lot in the manual. Valet can control some things... but I never use it so I just don't know about that function
I was also referring to "sand" mode, "traction control", and that stuff.
Zero torque steer on my SHO. Now it will spin the tires on launch and shift.
I have both. '13 SHO and '14 X SPORT.
My show (with a tune), has ZERO torque steer. Point it and it goes.
The X Sport (stock) will torque steer like a muther most times. But usually when you go from low RPM's (below 2,000) up through the RPM's. When the turbos spool up, is when you get it. Any input to the steering wheel exaggerated it.
goblues... good info... My SHO is like needmb's... a little spinning... but not TQ steering.
Quote from: goblues38 on April 23, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
I have both. '13 SHO and '14 X SPORT.
My show (with a tune), has ZERO torque steer. Point it and it goes.
The X Sport (stock) will torque steer like a muther most times. But usually when you go from low RPM's (below 2,000) up through the RPM's. When the turbos spool up, is when you get it. Any input to the steering wheel exaggerated it.
That's how the 2013 was when we test drove it. My new 2014 hardly any (T/S). It feels about like an 18 to 19 second ride.
What times are these stock?
Bigmac- I see now what I can change or limit with my-key...thanks!
Quote from: goblues38 on April 23, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
I have both. '13 SHO and '14 X SPORT.
My show (with a tune), has ZERO torque steer. Point it and it goes.
The X Sport (stock) will torque steer like a muther most times. But usually when you go from low RPM's (below 2,000) up through the RPM's. When the turbos spool up, is when you get it. Any input to the steering wheel exaggerated it.
Same experience here. I have a 12 PP SHO and 13 XSport and the Explorer has crazy torque steer with nothing for the SHO. Weird that it's like that.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
Quote from: POPSTAGE2 on April 23, 2014, 07:11:43 PM
Quote from: goblues38 on April 23, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
I have both. '13 SHO and '14 X SPORT.
My show (with a tune), has ZERO torque steer. Point it and it goes.
The X Sport (stock) will torque steer like a muther most times. But usually when you go from low RPM's (below 2,000) up through the RPM's. When the turbos spool up, is when you get it. Any input to the steering wheel exaggerated it.
That's how the 2013 was when we test drove it. My new 2014 hardly any (T/S). It feels about like an 18 to 19 second ride.
What times are these stock?
Expect low 13's stock and mid to upper 12's tuned... add a few mods and tune tweaks you get low 12's... current only 2 SHO's have run below 12... they were both meth injected.
14.2 quarter mile in a Explore Sport and around 13.6 tuned.
Maybe make a video of your acceleration so people can see if its normal?
Quote from: POPSTAGE2 on April 23, 2014, 07:11:43 PM
That's how the 2013 was when we test drove it. My new 2014 hardly any (T/S). It feels about like an 18 to 19 second ride.
What times are these stock?
Bigmac- I see now what I can change or limit with my-key...thanks!
TQ steer: on my 14 XSport? Yes. I second blues that it's mostly from low RPM through the middle of the power band while the turbos are really kicking it.
Times: Stock, we should be pulling around a 14 second quarter mile for most people. If you know what you're doing with good track conditions you could probably manage down to the mid 13's...but that's about it without a tune.
MyKey: DO NOT activate a MyKey unless you plan on giving that key to your 16 year old that needs a babysitter. lol
Even if one did get activated though...that has nothing to do with acceleration...just sets MAX limits for volume, speed, etc.
different driving modes: on start up, it defaults to normal driving / traction modes, so that shouldn't be the problem either.
A little info on the different modes:
Sand - disables traction control. Gearing keeps RPM high and doesn't down shift into 6th...ever. This setting has the most aggressive throttle response and shifts.
both the Mud/Ruts and Snow/Grass settings are very similar. I have yet to find a difference between the two...either way these settings greatly decrease throttle response, and limit overall power. It's like what it would feel like to fill your engine with tar. Great if you're trying not to spin your wheels on a crazy slick surface...but not good for much outside of an ice rink.
But unless you crank it to snow mode every time you start it...this shouldn't be the problem either.
Unfortunately, that's about all I've got...I can kybosh all your theories...but I don't have any suggestions for what it could be.
Did you get your catch can installed? I would love to see your install details. That would be the first place I would look. Can we get a pic of your install?
Thanks for the replies, it helps. If it's a 14 to 15 second 1/4 stock I know this one isn't.
BigMac- I can get pictures of the catch can install but I'm 99.9% sure it's installed correctly...anythings possible though.
Followed JimiJak's install except used 400 psi transmission hose that is compatible with oil and fuel. It's stiffer walled which will work better for the suction lines. That and I mounted it in the same location (underhood) but a tad lower and closer towards the radiator so the engine cover still fits.
I'll maybe move it to the wheelwell pending how much more crud JimiJak collects.
Again thanks for the replies...it's kinda telling me somethings up. It seems like after 2/3rds throttle it either loses boost or just accelerates the same amount.
Good to know. So if the can is installed correctly, and it's not a vacuum issue that's causing your problem; my next guess would be a turbo leak somewhere in the plastic charge pipes once the boost reaches a certain pressure. So let's say it's a leak that only happens at 10psi, you'll only get 10psi, and any additional boost will be lost even though you're WOT.
I'm assuming you're not throwing any CELs and you're not missing on any cylinders or anything, right?
You're stock, other than the catch can, right?
Better yet, as long as it's not the a bad OCC install:
If you're not hitting 0-60 times under 7 sec, there's def a problem and it needs to go back to the dealer...
Let them do all the hard work to figure it out.
Quote from: JimiJak on April 24, 2014, 09:28:28 AM
Good to know. So if the can is installed correctly, and it's not a vacuum issue that's causing your problem; my next guess would be a turbo leak somewhere in the plastic charge pipes once the boost reaches a certain pressure. So let's say it's a leak that only happens at 10psi, you'll only get 10psi, and any additional boost will be lost even though you're WOT.
I'm assuming you're not throwing any CELs and you're not missing on any cylinders or anything, right?
You're stock, other than the catch can, right?
Correct, no codes no miss and stock.
Plastic charge pipe would be like the intake pipes like the rear that I tapped into?
Negative.
You tapped into the intake pipes. Those go from the air cleaner to the turbo. From there, the turbo builds air pressure, and charges the "charge pipes" that then flow to the CAC (Charge Air Cooler aka intercooler) and from there, into your intake manifold.
Your eBOVs (electronic Blow Off Valves) are located on the charge pipes.
Gotcha...thanks!
Expect low 13's stock and mid to upper 12's tuned... add a few mods and tune tweaks you get low 12's... current only 2 SHO's have run below 12... they were both meth injected.
[/quote]
Did I miss the second one to get into the 11's?
POPSTAGE2: Try a 0-60 and see if you can get close to 6-6.5 seconds.
Maybe, I don't know, but there could be wires touching (shaffing?) which limits the power. It was frequent on SHO in 2010-2012...
I would definitely bring it to the dealer to have that fixed before tuning it.
But once fixed, I would definitely tune it! lol
Quote from: POPSTAGE2 on April 22, 2014, 09:23:16 AM
Hi All-
I have about 500 miles on my wife's Sport now. Wanted to break it in like Stacy suggested to set the rings in. But diddn't want to get to happy with high rpm's untill the catch can install do to the the poor pcv, evacuation system. So up till about 300 miles I would load the engine down using the paddle shifters at between 1/2 and 3/4 throttle. (worked great) Power felt good.
Now with the catch can Installed I drove it pretty hard with full throttle blasts. Pretty disappointed with the full trottle power. It seems it has the same power output at 1/2 and 3/4 throttle as it does at full. There is no torque steer. Is it possible you may have created a boost leak with the can installation?
Before we bought the 2014, I was able to test drive a 2013 with 25K on the clock for a week...granted it was when it was cold and we had better air but that thing had scary torque steer and had a lot more full throttle power. when you nailed it at 55-60 mph the torque steer was incredible, and frankly was worried that it was to much for the wife...not with our 2014...it has just a hint and just doesn't feel like it has the power.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Guy
IMHO... Time for a chat with your dealer service dept. :-
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 23, 2014, 07:25:59 PMExpect low 13's stock and mid to upper 12's tuned... add a few mods and tune tweaks you get low 12's... current only 2 SHO's have run below 12... they were both meth injected.
To date, there's only been
ONE SHO that's broken into the 11's.
That was FirstSHO (Mike) with an 11.95.
Quote from: bpd1151 on April 24, 2014, 08:05:12 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 23, 2014, 07:25:59 PMExpect low 13's stock and mid to upper 12's tuned... add a few mods and tune tweaks you get low 12's... current only 2 SHO's have run below 12... they were both meth injected.
To date, there's only been ONE SHO that's broken into the 11's.
That was FirstSHO (Mike) with an 11.95.
Gentlemen... I stand corrected and bow to your wisdom. :beer2:
Apologies to steve!
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 24, 2014, 08:10:16 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on April 24, 2014, 08:05:12 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 23, 2014, 07:25:59 PMExpect low 13's stock and mid to upper 12's tuned... add a few mods and tune tweaks you get low 12's... current only 2 SHO's have run below 12... they were both meth injected.
To date, there's only been ONE SHO that's broken into the 11's.
That was FirstSHO (Mike) with an 11.95.
Gentlemen... I stand corrected and bow to your wisdom. :beer2:
Apologies to steve!
BigMac it's all good. I'm a Big Mac too. :)
Quote from: REDSHOCGO on April 24, 2014, 08:00:14 PM
Is it possible you may have created a boost leak with the can installation?
I would still love to see a pic of your can install. The more we dig into this, the more I wonder if you tapped the charge pipes instead of the intake pipes...
Although...if the check valves are still intact in that line, you shouldn't be loosing any turbo pressure...not to mention I would be very surprised if the fitting would hold on with 15 pounds of pressure.
Still though...unless it's just a red herring, the OCC set up needs examined even if just to rule it out.
Any chance you can get a picture up soon?
i have a 2013 xsport and it has tons for toque steer and i actually hate it.. its the worst thing about the car if your not holding on with 2 hands it can get away from ya
Quote from: explorergotoluvit on April 24, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
i have a 2013 xsport and it has tons for toque steer and i actually hate it.. its the worst thing about the car if your not holding on with 2 hands it can get away from ya
LOL ^^^
True story!
Although, I may not like the TQ steer...I love what comes with it...TORQUE!!
dont see y it can't be full time awd then this 2wd until slipage i guess im use to one of the best awd subaru
Quote from: JimiJak on April 24, 2014, 09:35:48 PM
Quote from: REDSHOCGO on April 24, 2014, 08:00:14 PM
Is it possible you may have created a boost leak with the can installation?
I would still love to see a pic of your can install. The more we dig into this, the more I wonder if you tapped the charge pipes instead of the intake pipes...
Although...if the check valves are still intact in that line, you shouldn't be loosing any turbo pressure...not to mention I would be very surprised if the fitting would hold on with 15 pounds of pressure.
Still though...unless it's just a red herring, the OCC set up needs examined even if just to rule it out.
Any chance you can get a picture up soon?
I'll get you a picture.
But I tapped into the rear intake pipe maybe 5 to 7 inches after the "Y".
I used the factory nipple on the front pipe that was originally connected to the front valve cover.
BigMac- I think maybe you're right but would like to figure this out myself if I could. Going to order the Aeroforce boost gauge unless yous guys :icon_lol:(I'm from wisconsin) think there's something better?
Again, thanks for the help!
One simple and small boost leak can cause a milleu of problems and is very hard (without boost leak tester) to find. I chased them a lot in my SRT4 until I went to tbar clamps. Then again they were metal pipes not the plastic ones we have. Wont work on ecoboost until you convert the hot and cold side pipes.
Quote from: Needmoreboost on April 25, 2014, 10:05:43 AM
One simple and small boost leak can cause a milleu of problems and is very hard (without boost leak tester) to find. I chased them a lot in my SRT4 until I went to tbar clamps. Then again they were metal pipes not the plastic ones we have. Wont work on ecoboost until you convert the hot and cold side pipes.
The absolute truth, however uncommon! Just why I spent the $ for hard hotpipes!...
This first couple of pictures you can see the charge? pipe hose sits about a 1/2" from going on the whole way...I loosened the clamp (clamp was kinda loose) and slid the hose on all the way tighted, then took it out for a beat. About the same power. This picure is after the short drive...the hose slid back off from bottoming. Thinking this is normal as when the clamp is against the "barb" it will seal from pressure.
Sorry for the dark pics...was in a hurry this morning to get to work...
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO001_zpsf5cb069f.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO001_zpsf5cb069f.jpg.html)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO002_zpsef7555a3.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO002_zpsef7555a3.jpg.html)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO003_zpsde6eeda1.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO003_zpsde6eeda1.jpg.html)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO004_zps29c23012.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO004_zps29c23012.jpg.html)
The movement of the hose will always be there... the lower end of the hose is fixed to the stationary IC inlet and the hard charge pipe is secured to the manifold and moves 2-3 inches forward and back when the engine is revved.
If you have a boost leak it will take a R&R of each connectino and a check of the seal and function of the BoVs.... usually not a simple or quick thing...
Quote from: POPSTAGE2 on April 26, 2014, 01:58:43 PM
This first couple of pictures you can see the charge? pipe hose sits about a 1/2" from going on the whole way...I loosened the clamp (clamp was kinda loose) and slid the hose on all the way tighted, then took it out for a beat. About the same power. This picure is after the short drive...the hose slid back off from bottoming. Thinking this is normal as when the clamp is against the "barb" it will seal from pressure.
Sorry for the dark pics...was in a hurry this morning to get to work...
Thanks for the pics. After work, would it be possible to get more pics of your Rx connections? Just want to rule that out before moving forward...
Ok JimiJak, had some time to take pics.
First pic is showing the oil that is always there everytime I take the RX breather off...anyone else have this issue?
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO2003_zpsc94b5592.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2003_zpsc94b5592.jpg.html)
Here's the install with engine cover on. Made my own brackets to do this. It's tite but does fit without touching anything. Scratches on can is from removeing, installing cover.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO2001_zps8b29d304.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2001_zps8b29d304.jpg.html)
Clean side install from breather cap to air box thanks to JimiJAK!
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO2002_zps8f7b236b.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2002_zps8f7b236b.jpg.html)
Cose up of can.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO2004_zps2b799c86.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2004_zps2b799c86.jpg.html)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO2006_zpsbcd5102e.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2006_zpsbcd5102e.jpg.html)
Pic of PCV valve connection which goes to center nipple on the can. And Manifold vacuum connection which goes to "AN" fitting on the can.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO2005_zpsf0899fad.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2005_zpsf0899fad.jpg.html)
And back intake connection which tee's into front intake where the original nipple was necked down and used. That going into other side "AN" fitting on can. Not shown (forgot to take photo) is the capped off front valve cover nipple that went to the front intake.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO2007_zps07d8baeb.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2007_zps07d8baeb.jpg.html)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/TURBO2008_zps7b16257c.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2008_zps7b16257c.jpg.html)
Also, with the exception of not being able to see your anterior air intake vac barb (which would be pretty hard to mess up), it looks like everything's in the right spot...
Thank you for the pics. I'm going to say we can probably cross OCC Install off the list of possible contributors to your lack of power.
Any more info regarding behavior? have you noticed a pattern yet? Is it always underpowered, or have there been times where it seems to wake up? How does it sound? Idle? WOT? etc...
I suggest hooking up a vacuum gauge. This can say lot about your poor performance. These engines idle with 20-22 inches a of vacuum. If yours shows less it may guide you on where to look.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the responses!
I will look at that o-ring today and also put a vacuum gauge on it.
No changes in power or in anything. It has good low rpm power, but at about anything more than 2/3 throttle or above 4,000 rpm it doesn't pick up any more power... it just lays flat like it loses boost. No misses, no odd sounds, actually it's very quiet when just cruising.
Your symptom description sounds too similar to my experience to not mention. My symptoms were acceleration going flat at the top of the gear. There was carryover into the next gear. Before going into the dealership, I also noticed a sound coinciding with the performance flattening that sounded like a belt squeal. The dealership duplicated the symptoms and claimed that the car thew a code for them. They explained that (their words) I had a vacuum leak at the high pressure fuel pump sensor, which caused an over boost condition. I'm thinking that the car pulled timing to protect itself. They told me that Ford did not use a clamp on the site of my leak. What they did was to trim the hose and add a clamp. Problem has not reoccurred and the car pulls strong to the top of gear and seems to leap as it hits the next gear. In normal driving I was unaware of the slowly developing issue. This may not be related to your problem but I could not help but see a similarity in your description of symptoms. Good luck finding your problem!
2010 Steel Blue Metallic, Fully Loaded, non PP, LMS 4+, K&N drop in, 170 T-stat, 3 bar MAP
Quote from: Larrylu on April 29, 2014, 10:05:36 AM
Your symptom description sounds too similar to my experience to not mention. My symptoms were acceleration going flat at the top of the gear. There was carryover into the next gear. Before going into the dealership, I also noticed a sound coinciding with the performance flattening that sounded like a belt squeal. The dealership duplicated the symptoms and claimed that the car thew a code for them. They explained that (their words) I had a vacuum leak at the high pressure fuel pump sensor, which caused an over boost condition. I'm thinking that the car pulled timing to protect itself. They told me that Ford did not use a clamp on the site of my leak. What they did was to trim the hose and add a clamp. Problem has not reoccurred and the car pulls strong to the top of gear and seems to leap as it hits the next gear. In normal driving I was unaware of the slowly developing issue. This may not be related to your problem but I could not help but see a similarity in your description of symptoms. Good luck finding your problem!
2010 Steel Blue Metallic, Fully Loaded, non PP, LMS 4+, K&N drop in, 170 T-stat, 3 bar MAP
Larry... got a pic of that connection? TIA
[
[/quote]
Larry... got a pic of that connection? TIA
[/quote]
Well Tom you caught me being lazy. My description is strictly second hand as related to me by the service writer. With the stuff I've been doing, I've had the engine cover off and I've had the MAP sensor on and off more times than I care to count, but I have not laid eyes on the site of the dealer installed non OE clamp. Though I've been curious, I have been to lazy to really search. I know where the fuel pump is under the rubber sound deadener. I'll give a quick overview again this afternoon. The results of the dealer repair were rather dramatic.
2010 Steel Blue Metallic, Fully Loaded, non PP, LMS 4+, K&N drop in, 170 T-stat, 3 bar MAP
Related to the O-Ring post from above:
IMPORTANT!
IF YOU ATTEMPT TO REPLACE THE ORING, DO NOT PULL THE THREADED BASE OUT OF THE CSS as I was originally instructed. :nono:
PUSH THE GROMET OUT OF THE BASE FROM THE TOP.
or if you have the right pics / tools to get the oring over the base from above without having to remove the grommet, that's probably best.
*I've edited my above response to insure nobody pulls on the threaded base. ...I won't go into what happens when you do...just don't do it. :Picard2:
EDIT: As an update, Tracy has been stellar (as usual) in his customer service, and assuring everything gets taken care of on my end. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Larrylu on April 29, 2014, 10:05:36 AM
Your symptom description sounds too similar to my experience to not mention. My symptoms were acceleration going flat at the top of the gear. There was carryover into the next gear. Before going into the dealership, I also noticed a sound coinciding with the performance flattening that sounded like a belt squeal. The dealership duplicated the symptoms and claimed that the car thew a code for them. They explained that (their words) I had a vacuum leak at the high pressure fuel pump sensor, which caused an over boost condition. I'm thinking that the car pulled timing to protect itself. They told me that Ford did not use a clamp on the site of my leak. What they did was to trim the hose and add a clamp. Problem has not reoccurred and the car pulls strong to the top of gear and seems to leap as it hits the next gear. In normal driving I was unaware of the slowly developing issue. This may not be related to your problem but I could not help but see a similarity in your description of symptoms. Good luck finding your problem!
2010 Steel Blue Metallic, Fully Loaded, non PP, LMS 4+, K&N drop in, 170 T-stat, 3 bar MAP
I've been poking around looking for tracks the tech might have left behind as to which clamp he added and I'm just not certain. There is one clamp that is newer looking and a different color metal and so I took a picture of it for what ever it's worth. Sorry I can't be more definite than that!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/se3eryne.jpg)
2010 Steel Blue Metallic, Fully Loaded, non PP, LMS 4+, K&N drop in, 170 T-stat, 3 bar MAP
In typical Larrylu fashion, you're on it!
We appreciate that!!
Some more good info...thanks guys.
I will be out of the country starting tomorrow for a week and a half so won't be reporting back.
But I will stay on it when I get back and let everyone know what I find.
Thought I would have time to look at that o-ring and check vacuum but got busy here at work...still trying.
Quote from: Larrylu on April 29, 2014, 01:53:23 PM
Quote from: Larrylu on April 29, 2014, 10:05:36 AM
Your symptom description sounds too similar to my experience to not mention. My symptoms were acceleration going flat at the top of the gear. There was carryover into the next gear. Before going into the dealership, I also noticed a sound coinciding with the performance flattening that sounded like a belt squeal. The dealership duplicated the symptoms and claimed that the car thew a code for them. They explained that (their words) I had a vacuum leak at the high pressure fuel pump sensor, which caused an over boost condition. I'm thinking that the car pulled timing to protect itself. They told me that Ford did not use a clamp on the site of my leak. What they did was to trim the hose and add a clamp. Problem has not reoccurred and the car pulls strong to the top of gear and seems to leap as it hits the next gear. In normal driving I was unaware of the slowly developing issue. This may not be related to your problem but I could not help but see a similarity in your description of symptoms. Good luck finding your problem!
2010 Steel Blue Metallic, Fully Loaded, non PP, LMS 4+, K&N drop in, 170 T-stat, 3 bar MAP
I've been poking around looking for tracks the tech might have left behind as to which clamp he added and I'm just not certain. There is one clamp that is newer looking and a different color metal and so I took a picture of it for what ever it's worth. Sorry I can't be more definite than that!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/se3eryne.jpg)
2010 Steel Blue Metallic, Fully Loaded, non PP, LMS 4+, K&N drop in, 170 T-stat, 3 bar MAP
Perfect Larry! Thanks!
Speaking of clamps, watching Motorweek and Goss' Garage he talked specifically about clamps and when replacing them he recommends using OEM clamps but not to use the screw type clamp for a variety of reasons...just thought I'd throw that in since we are talking clamps.
Any update?
Link to Pat Goss' statement on which clamps to use and why:
http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/engine_cooling_basics/ (http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/engine_cooling_basics/)
That is good to know...
The OE tension type clamps make me want to castrate myself.
The worm clamps I've never liked, for various reasons.
But, t-bolt clamps...
There's simply no substitute.
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Quote from: IHeartGroceries on May 07, 2014, 04:03:07 PM
The OE tension type clamps make me want to castrate myself.
The worm clamps I've never liked, for various reasons.
But, t-bolt clamps...
There's simply no substitute.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
100% in agreement ...
Quote from: SwampRat on May 07, 2014, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on May 07, 2014, 04:03:07 PM
The OE tension type clamps make me want to castrate myself.
The worm clamps I've never liked, for various reasons.
But, t-bolt clamps...
There's simply no substitute.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
100% in agreement ...
X3!
I would not use t-bolts on plastic tubing unless you want cracks and boost leaks. ;)
Quote from: Needmoreboost on May 07, 2014, 04:26:32 PM
I would not use t-bolts on plastic tubing unless you want cracks and boost leaks. ;)
I agree!
This is the one exception. Plastic tubing connections nipples are engineered for the factory clamps.
Quote from: BiGMaC on May 07, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
Quote from: Needmoreboost on May 07, 2014, 04:26:32 PM
I would not use t-bolts on plastic tubing unless you want cracks and boost leaks. ;)
I agree!
This is the one exception. Plastic tubing connections nipples are engineered for the factory clamps.
The HotPipe Kit several members have and use here come with T-bolt clamps for all connection points . No problems with there use and no one else had any that I am aware of .
Quote from: SwampRat on May 07, 2014, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on May 07, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
Quote from: Needmoreboost on May 07, 2014, 04:26:32 PM
I would not use t-bolts on plastic tubing unless you want cracks and boost leaks. ;)
I agree!
This is the one exception. Plastic tubing connections nipples are engineered for the factory clamps.
The HotPipe Kit several members have and use here come with T-bolt clamps for all connection points . No problems with there use and no one else had any that I am aware of .
Likely not long enough... Like the article on the radiator connections says...
Quote from: BiGMaC on May 07, 2014, 05:15:15 PM
Quote from: SwampRat on May 07, 2014, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on May 07, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
Quote from: Needmoreboost on May 07, 2014, 04:26:32 PM
I would not use t-bolts on plastic tubing unless you want cracks and boost leaks. ;)
I agree!
This is the one exception. Plastic tubing connections nipples are engineered for the factory clamps.
The HotPipe Kit several members have and use here come with T-bolt clamps for all connection points . No problems with there use and no one else had any that I am aware of .
Likely not long enough... Like the article on the radiator connections says...
Highly doubting this is an issue on the IC port connections and I
TRUST Mike's judgement on the inclusion of T bolt clamps in the kit .
OEM clamps for the entire plumbing of OEM CAC system are screw type worm gear , except BOV clamps ... FYI
Quote from: SwampRat on May 07, 2014, 06:10:42 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on May 07, 2014, 05:15:15 PM
Quote from: SwampRat on May 07, 2014, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on May 07, 2014, 04:36:17 PM
Quote from: Needmoreboost on May 07, 2014, 04:26:32 PM
I would not use t-bolts on plastic tubing unless you want cracks and boost leaks. ;)
I agree!
This is the one exception. Plastic tubing connections nipples are engineered for the factory clamps.
The HotPipe Kit several members have and use here come with T-bolt clamps for all connection points . No problems with there use and no one else had any that I am aware of .
Likely not long enough... Like the article on the radiator connections says...
Highly doubting this is an issue on the IC port connections and I
TRUST Mike's judgement on the inclusion of T bolt clamps in the kit .
OEM clamps for the entire plumbing of OEM CAC system are screw type worm gear , except BOV clamps ... FYI
"Piping", of course, it technically not the radiator hose... subject of the article referenced... It is not a worm clamp.
Of course most of those CAC connections are not the topic of my post, nor are they like the connections to thick rigid plastic nipples like the radiator has but, instead are thin semi-rigid plastic pipe to semi-rigid plastic hose or to rubber hose....
I trust Mike's product too... never even implied otherwise...You'll remember I helped in the fitment of this product (hotpipes) for the SHO
I think the hotpipe IC connections likely will be fine.....
However
ONLY passage of time will tell with certainty... as continued EB owners cars age, regardless of our discussion or opinions.
Quote from: Brucelinc on April 22, 2014, 09:32:30 AM
It will likely get better with more miles - with only 500 miles, everything is still pretty tight. As for torque steer, I am surprised that you found the 2013 to have "scary" torque steer. That makes me wonder if there was something wrong with it. You shouldn't experience much torque steer.
My 2011 PP SHO had major torque steer stock. It was even more noticeable after I installed an LMS 93 octane stage 4 tune.
My 2013 EB Flex had major torque steer stock. It's even more noticeable after I installed a 93 octane Unleashed tune.
My 2014 PP SHO had major torque steer stock. It's even more noticeable after I installed a 93 octane Unleashed tune.
Several magazine tests have noted significant torque steer in AWD 3.5 Ecoboost vehicles.
Conclusion:
There are several possibilities. Folks who aren't experiencing torque steer are either:
1) Not fully utilizing the loud pedal, or
2) Don't know what torque steer is, or
3) Have serious engine problems, manifested by lack of power and minimal or non-existent torque steer
Try this. From a complete stop, take your hands off the steering wheel and stomp the gas pedal to the floor. If your car doesn't immediately shoot off the side of the road, something is wrong with your engine.
Quote from: RealityCheck on May 07, 2014, 09:03:14 PM
If your car doesn't immediately shoot off the side of the road, something is wrong with your engine.
Can't fault you for being direct! :D
RealityCheck ...... No if ands or buts the transverse 3.5 EB has massive torque steer , especially when tuned .
Firm grip on wheel , eyes straight ahead and stomp it .... Then SMILE !
The OP said:
"when you nailed it at 55-60 mph the torque steer was incredible"
Different scenario than this:
"From a complete stop, take your hands off the steering wheel and stomp the gas pedal to the floor."
I guess everyone could have a different definition of "incredible." I wouldn't call the torque steer at 55-60 under WOT "incredible" in an MKS or SHO. Others have indicated that the Explorer Sport is worse in that regard.
By the way, we have a FWD Taurus SEL with the naturally aspirated 3.5 as well as the tuned MKS eco. The Taurus does 0-60 in about 7 seconds while the MKS does it in 4.2. Which one would you expect to have the most torque steer from a dig?
The torque steer SUCKS. It drives me nuts.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
I don't suppose a Prius torque steers as badly - might be a good option.
Lol! So, torque steer is the nature of the beast now, is it?
Funny...seems to be a non issue on real sporty cars.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on May 08, 2014, 11:43:39 AM
Lol! So, torque steer is the nature of the beast now, is it?
Funny...seems to be a non issue on real sporty cars.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
I don't understand why you'd take your hand off the wheel on WOT acceleration, sounds dangerous to me.
Don't know why it's news to everyone that torque steer is an undesirable side effect is a sports car.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Quote from: black99lightning on May 08, 2014, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on May 08, 2014, 11:43:39 AM
Lol! So, torque steer is the nature of the beast now, is it?
Funny...seems to be a non issue on real sporty cars.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
I don't understand why you'd take your hand off the wheel on WOT acceleration, sounds dangerous to me.
Aww come on and live I little. '
Also a fun past time is doing this at a rail road crossing and race to train..
Disclaimer bad idea.
Hmmm I'm not sure what is the issue. My 13 isn't really that bad at all. I prefer a bit of torque steer to breaking the tires free at 60mph. My 71 used to do that a lot, which I got used to. Still not fun when she would catch a rut in the road and try to come around on me. More powa means you need to adjust your driving style.
Especially when racing a train apparently ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Quote from: JimiJak on April 28, 2014, 10:27:01 PM
Quote from: POPSTAGE2 on April 28, 2014, 09:28:03 AM
Ok JimiJak, had some time to take pics.
First pic is showing the oil that is always there everytime I take the RX breather off...anyone else have this issue?
(//quote%5Dhttp://%5Burl=http://I%5Dhttp://I%5B/url%5D%20have%20noticed%20that%20the%20base%20of%20my%20CSS%20is%20a%20bit%20oily%20at%20times,%20but%20nothing%20accumulating%20like%20yours%20is.%20%3Cbr%20/%3EWhen%20I%20was%20in%20there%20re-routing%20the%20CSS%20to%20the%20airbox,%20I%20took%20some%20pics%20of%20the%20coalescing%20material,%20and%20the%20oil%20remaining%20in%20the%20bottom%20of%20the%20separator...what%20I%20didn't%20share%20was%20what%20I%20found%20when%20I%20took%20the%20coalescing%20material%20out:%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%20width=400%20height=265%5Dhttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-n6PPxck9sQU/U1ApxyfgbCI/AAAAAAAADdo/0fhN3KgHtm0/w782-h520-no/DSC_0186.JPG)
There's an o-ring that helps to seal the bottom of the CSS. Mine was broke. The only reason I didn't post this at the time was because I talked to Tracy and he said that was the very first one of these he's seen broken.
Since it's a $0.99 O-ring...and everyone gets a bad part once in a while...I didn't feel it necessary to make people skeptical of his materials.
But, if you unscrew the top off your OCC, remove the coalescing material, and find the same thing...then maybe he ended up with a faulty batch of O-Rings, as it seems to be the appropriate size.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-dgbstQwUJZQ/U1Ap64E3-LI/AAAAAAAADd8/WFKD4as2kbY/w782-h520-no/DSC_0187.JPG)
A new one is easily findable...got mine at AutoValue. They actually had it right up by the register.
*Edit:
when installing the new O-ring, make sure not to pull on the threaded base against the top. If you decide to remove the grommet from the bottom of the CSS, push the grommet out of the CSS from the top.
(http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/TURBO2003_zpsc94b5592.jpg.html)
Bingo on the broken o-ring! Thanks JimiJak!
Just got back last night and had a chance to look at the cap before work this morning.
Will not have time to do anything else till later this week or weekend.
Lots of talk about torque steer! I stand by what I said and was just using that as a way of comparing the difference of power between the two. (and thats coming from an experienced drag racer)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/PVCCAP003_zps0f2e022a.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/PVCCAP003_zps0f2e022a.jpg.html)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/PVCCAP002_zps5d24cc96.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/POPSTAGE2/media/PVCCAP002_zps5d24cc96.jpg.html)
Funny about the torque steer, I drove our 11 Explorer Limited on the weekend. It's been a while since I have, paying attention to the torque steer on it, it is more pronounced than my SHO. Which I found really weird, for 2 reasons. One is that the front end on the 2 are pretty similar. Mine being a Limited is a NA engine. So I would imagine that it would be even more pronounced on the Sport. Weird?
Quote from: ShoBoat on May 12, 2014, 01:56:20 PM
Funny about the torque steer, I drove our 11 Explorer Limited on the weekend. It's been a while since I have, paying attention to the torque steer on it, it is more pronounced than my SHO. Which I found really weird, for 2 reasons. One is that the front end on the 2 are pretty similar. Mine being a Limited is a NA engine. So I would imagine that it would be even more pronounced on the Sport. Weird?
Several posters have mentioned more torque steer in the Explorer. Our FWD Taurus SEL has more far more noticeable torque steer than my MKS ecoboost. Sending some power to the rear helps reduce the tendency to torque steer even in a FWD biased system like ours.
When people say they have horrible torque steer in a SHO, it makes me wonder if some cars send power to the rear sooner than others under WOT. Or, it could also be just a matter of not being used to a FWD biased system or maybe never driven a powerful FWD car. What is minor to some could be major to others.
I would say go Driver and grand prix gxp. Turn off traction and stability control. That thing will give you some extrem torque steer. From my experience with the sho I only notice it on slick surfaces.
My 1978 Honda Civic had horrible torque steer. And it only had like maybe 60hp lol.
No, I'm not accustomed to high powered FWD, or FWD biased AWD. Always been a 50/50 or 0/10) guy. So, even if degrees of severity are subjective, the SHOs torque steer condition is bad enough for me. Any is bad for me. It's just a work against.
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Makes me wonder if something is not working right with your awd system.
Quote from: panther427 on May 12, 2014, 05:06:32 PM
Makes me wonder if something is not working right with your awd system.
agree, because i don't have any torque steer with my MKS.
now, i'm talking about tq steer from a standing stop then accelerating the car, up to full throttle, in a straight line. my MKS does not forcibly veer in any direction.
now, when cornering aggressively, i can throttle out of a turn if i'm experiencing understeer to force the back end out a little. but i don't consider that torque steer...
Quote from: DRII on May 12, 2014, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: panther427 on May 12, 2014, 05:06:32 PM
Makes me wonder if something is not working right with your awd system.
agree, because i don't have any torque steer with my MKS.
now, i'm talking about tq steer from a standing stop then accelerating the car, up to full throttle, in a straight line. my MKS does not forcibly veer in any direction.
now, when cornering aggressively, i can throttle out of a turn if i'm experiencing understeer to force the back end out a little. but i don't consider that torque steer...
Gotta echo this... If I really launch I can get a little lateral stutter, but I don't appreciate torque steering in my '13 SHO at any speed or throttle application straight or turning.... grannies on or off.