Sup everyone . Have a couple of questions and before I get bashed I did do some research but didn't get a straight answer . I'm new to the ecoboost world so take it easy on me lol. What is the purpose of the 3 bar sensor swap? What is it that some SHOs have or are PP. Do all SHOs have the same axle ratio? Thanks in advance
Quote from: southtxSHO on March 15, 2014, 11:49:41 PM
Sup everyone . Have a couple of questions and before I get bashed I did do some research but didn't get a straight answer . I'm new to the ecoboost world so take it easy on me lol. What is the purpose of the 3 bar sensor swap? What is it that some SHOs have or are PP. Do all SHOs have the same axle ratio? Thanks in advance
Good questions...
-The 2Bar MAP (manifold absolute pressure)sensor cannot read or transmit manifold boost pressures above 14.5 psi to the ECU. The 3BAR can. I haven't got mine in yet, but the 3Bar is reported by a few guys here as providing a more graded response form the engine... why?... dunno... It is important if your tune commands higher boost (stock Garrett turbos might get to 16-17psi with a tune)... or if you upgrade impellers or the entire turbo set to larger turbos which are capable of higher boost. I know it's strange, but if the ECU is not tuned and a 3BAR used the torque controlled boost won;'t increase. Witness the fact that stock tune just revving won't spool up the turbos because no torque is needed... or the fact that boost levels in cold climates may be lower while performance is the same.... colder air = denser air = more power without compression.
- NO...The PP SHO has lower gears (higher ratio) on the lower gears to improve rapid acceleration.... Practically, in unmodified drivetrains the reports on this forum indicate it might be worth about.1 sec in a quarter mile. The PP does not offer the adaptive cruise control... due to space and, at least on the '10-'12s, extra cooling. With mods and tuning all bets are off though... witness crash's SHO.
Hope this helps some... others will chime in... neither major type of SHO is really superior in my mind.
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 16, 2014, 12:08:22 AM
Quote from: southtxSHO on March 15, 2014, 11:49:41 PM
Sup everyone . Have a couple of questions and before I get bashed I did do some research but didn't get a straight answer . I'm new to the ecoboost world so take it easy on me lol. What is the purpose of the 3 bar sensor swap? What is it that some SHOs have or are PP. Do all SHOs have the same axle ratio? Thanks in advance
Good questions...
-The 2Bar MAP (manifold absolute pressure)sensor cannot read or transmit manifold boost pressures above 14.5 psi to the ECU. The 3BAR can. I haven't got mine in yet, but the 3Bar is reported by a few guys here as providing a more graded response form the engine... why?... dunno... It is important if your tune commands higher boost (stock Garrett turbos might get to 16-17psi with a tune)... or if you upgrade impellers or the entire turbo set to larger turbos which are capable of higher boost. I know it's strange, but if the ECU is not tuned and a 3BAR used the torque controlled boost won;'t increase. Witness the fact that stock tune just revving won't spool up the turbos because no torque is needed... or the fact that boost levels in cold climates may be lower while performance is the same.... colder air = denser air = more power without compression.
- NO...The PP SHO has lower gears (higher ratio) on the lower gears to improve rapid acceleration.... Practically, in unmodified drivetrains the reports on this forum indicate it might be worth about.1 sec in a quarter mile. The PP does not offer the adaptive cruise control... due to space and, at least on the '10-'12s, extra cooling. With mods and tuning all bets are off though... witness crash's SHO.
Hope this helps some... others will chime in... neither major type of SHO is really superior in my mind.
thanks for shining some light. So if I go with a stage 4 lms tune would it be wise to do the 3 bar sensor swap?
Quote from: southtxSHO on March 16, 2014, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 16, 2014, 12:08:22 AM
Quote from: southtxSHO on March 15, 2014, 11:49:41 PM
Sup everyone . Have a couple of questions and before I get bashed I did do some research but didn't get a straight answer . I'm new to the ecoboost world so take it easy on me lol. What is the purpose of the 3 bar sensor swap? What is it that some SHOs have or are PP. Do all SHOs have the same axle ratio? Thanks in advance
Good questions...
-The 2Bar MAP (manifold absolute pressure)sensor cannot read or transmit manifold boost pressures above 14.5 psi to the ECU. The 3BAR can. I haven't got mine in yet, but the 3Bar is reported by a few guys here as providing a more graded response form the engine... why?... dunno... It is important if your tune commands higher boost (stock Garrett turbos might get to 16-17psi with a tune)... or if you upgrade impellers or the entire turbo set to larger turbos which are capable of higher boost. I know it's strange, but if the ECU is not tuned and a 3BAR used the torque controlled boost won;'t increase. Witness the fact that stock tune just revving won't spool up the turbos because no torque is needed... or the fact that boost levels in cold climates may be lower while performance is the same.... colder air = denser air = more power without compression.
- NO...The PP SHO has lower gears (higher ratio) on the lower gears to improve rapid acceleration.... Practically, in unmodified drivetrains the reports on this forum indicate it might be worth about.1 sec in a quarter mile. The PP does not offer the adaptive cruise control... due to space and, at least on the '10-'12s, extra cooling. With mods and tuning all bets are off though... witness crash's SHO.
Hope this helps some... others will chime in... neither major type of SHO is really superior in my mind.
thanks for shining some light. So if I go with a stage 4 lms tune would it be wise to do the 3 bar sensor swap?
Sorry... I'm ignorant... maybe others will chime in... I know DJE runs a 3BAR with a 4+ LMS tune.... but if you call LMS they will tell you or get an answer from their tuner. They've always been very helpful when contacted.
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 16, 2014, 12:40:09 AM
Quote from: southtxSHO on March 16, 2014, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 16, 2014, 12:08:22 AM
Quote from: southtxSHO on March 15, 2014, 11:49:41 PM
Sup everyone . Have a couple of questions and before I get bashed I did do some research but didn't get a straight answer . I'm new to the ecoboost world so take it easy on me lol. What is the purpose of the 3 bar sensor swap? What is it that some SHOs have or are PP. Do all SHOs have the same axle ratio? Thanks in advance
Good questions...
-The 2Bar MAP (manifold absolute pressure)sensor cannot read or transmit manifold boost pressures above 14.5 psi to the ECU. The 3BAR can. I haven't got mine in yet, but the 3Bar is reported by a few guys here as providing a more graded response form the engine... why?... dunno... It is important if your tune commands higher boost (stock Garrett turbos might get to 16-17psi with a tune)... or if you upgrade impellers or the entire turbo set to larger turbos which are capable of higher boost. I know it's strange, but if the ECU is not tuned and a 3BAR used the torque controlled boost won;'t increase. Witness the fact that stock tune just revving won't spool up the turbos because no torque is needed... or the fact that boost levels in cold climates may be lower while performance is the same.... colder air = denser air = more power without compression.
- NO...The PP SHO has lower gears (higher ratio) on the lower gears to improve rapid acceleration.... Practically, in unmodified drivetrains the reports on this forum indicate it might be worth about.1 sec in a quarter mile. The PP does not offer the adaptive cruise control... due to space and, at least on the '10-'12s, extra cooling. With mods and tuning all bets are off though... witness crash's SHO.
Hope this helps some... others will chime in... neither major type of SHO is really superior in my mind.
thanks for shining some light. So if I go with a stage 4 lms tune would it be wise to do the 3 bar sensor swap?
Sorry... I'm ignorant... maybe others will chime in... I know DJE runs a 3BAR with a 4+ LMS tune.... but if you call LMS they will tell you or get an answer from their tuner. They've always been very helpful when contacted.
Lol ok thanks for your help.
Howdy! What year are talking here? In my 12, running a custom 4+, the 3 Bar seems to read the MAP and send a more refined measurement back to the PCM at all boost and vacuum levels. It is very subtle but I think it smoothes out the acceleration.
That's really a great question, I am running the LMS Stage 4+ tune in my '10 car and I'm really not sure if the 3 bar would be of any benefit or not. I know that the car makes a lot more power then stock or Stage 2...I would almost think that because my tune is one of the older tunes that I would have to have an updated tune to take advantage of the 3 bar sensor.
You need to be tuned for the 3Bar.
Quote from: DJE624 on March 16, 2014, 01:53:54 AM
Howdy! What year are talking here? In my 12, running a custom 4+, the 3 Bar seems to read the MAP and send a more refined measurement back to the PCM at all boost and vacuum levels. It is very subtle but I think it smoothes out the acceleration.
Great info , mine is a 2011.
Quote from: mjhpadi on March 16, 2014, 02:42:37 AM
That's really a great question, I am running the LMS Stage 4+ tune in my '10 car and I'm really not sure if the 3 bar would be of any benefit or not. I know that the car makes a lot more power then stock or Stage 2...I would almost think that because my tune is one of the older tunes that I would have to have an updated tune to take advantage of the 3 bar sensor.
For the LMS stage 4+ tune , what combined mods are necessary?
I already have a drop in K&n filter and running 93 octane .
Welcome SouthtxSHO. To make the most of LMS 4+ tune, you should upgrade plugs to motorcraft sp534 and gap to .030 also 160degree t-stat. As to a bar 3MAP sensor I can not offer up any personal info on making that upgrade. However I do run one but it is a requirement for my LMS stage 5 meth tune. But with plugs and T-stat alone with LMS +4 tune you will more then pleased with its performance.
Typically when MAP sensors reach the upper level of their efficiency range, they begin to report erratic voltage to the ECU. This can skew things a bit.
It isn't unusual at all that upgrading might make the car feel smoother under acceleration/WOT, if you're running a tune with enhanced boost targets.
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Quote from: crash712us on March 16, 2014, 10:39:59 AM
Welcome SouthtxSHO. To make the most of LMS 4+ tune, you should upgrade plugs to motorcraft sp534 and gap to .030 also 160degree t-stat. As to a bar 3MAP sensor I can not offer up any personal info on making that upgrade. However I do run one but it is a requirement for my LMS stage 5 meth tune. But with plugs and T-stat alone with LMS +4 tune you will more then pleased with its performance.
Thanks Crash , I appreciate the info and will definitely get those plugs/t -stat/ and 3 bar sensor. By the way , nice car you got there .
Quote from: IHeartGroceries on March 16, 2014, 11:08:44 AM
Typically when MAP sensors reach the upper level of their efficiency range, they begin to report erratic voltage to the ECU. This can skew things a bit.
It isn't unusual at all that upgrading might make the car feel smoother under acceleration/WOT, if you're running a tune with enhanced boost targets.
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Definitely getting the 3 bar sensor . Thanks !
southtxSHO... I have made the same basic choices as you on these mods... As always, I hope we're right!
However, you have one more decision related to the T-stat opening temperature. This is a relatively recent development.
To be more informed on this you should check out the thread on the T-stat in making a decision on whether to go with the 170 degree or the 160 degree since you are currently OEM. This can be found in a couple of places.
You might start here: http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2269.msg32699#msg32699 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2269.msg32699#msg32699) and here http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2242.msg32317#msg32317 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2242.msg32317#msg32317) and just read for the facts. At least 2 members have used the 160 degree and given us great reports.
I will be going with the 160 degree in the warm environment here in Phoenix, which is not dissimilar to yours in the Rio Grande Valley, but you should decide for yourself.
Thanks BIGMAC, I think I'm going to wait and see what feedback comes out of the 160 t-stat. And yes the heat down here is bad .lol
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One more thing , where do you buy the 3 bar sensor ? Link ?
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Quote from: southtxSHO on March 17, 2014, 04:04:43 PM
One more thing , where do you buy the 3 bar sensor ? Link ?
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Unleashed tuning is one place ...
http://www.unleashedtuning.com/content/view/77/17/ (http://www.unleashedtuning.com/content/view/77/17/)
Quote from: SwampRat on March 17, 2014, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: southtxSHO on March 17, 2014, 04:04:43 PM
One more thing , where do you buy the 3 bar sensor ? Link ?
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Unleashed tuning is one place ...
http://www.trademotion.com/shoppingcart/index.cfm?siteid=318&retVal=%2Fparts%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Faction%3DoePartSearch%26siteid%3D318%26make%3DFord%26year%3D%26model%3D%26submodel%3D%26searchText%3DAA5Z9F479B (http://www.trademotion.com/shoppingcart/index.cfm?siteid=318&retVal=%2Fparts%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Faction%3DoePartSearch%26siteid%3D318%26make%3DFord%26year%3D%26model%3D%26submodel%3D%26searchText%3DAA5Z9F479B)
Kevin... The link is to an empty shopping cart. Can you repost. TIA
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 17, 2014, 04:17:44 PM
Quote from: SwampRat on March 17, 2014, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: southtxSHO on March 17, 2014, 04:04:43 PM
One more thing , where do you buy the 3 bar sensor ? Link ?
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Unleashed tuning is one place ...
http://www.trademotion.com/shoppingcart/index.cfm?siteid=318&retVal=%2Fparts%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Faction%3DoePartSearch%26siteid%3D318%26make%3DFord%26year%3D%26model%3D%26submodel%3D%26searchText%3DAA5Z9F479B (http://www.trademotion.com/shoppingcart/index.cfm?siteid=318&retVal=%2Fparts%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Faction%3DoePartSearch%26siteid%3D318%26make%3DFord%26year%3D%26model%3D%26submodel%3D%26searchText%3DAA5Z9F479B)
Kevin... The link is to an empty shopping cart. Can you repost. TIA
Fixed ...
http://www.unleashedtuning.com/content/view/77/17/ (http://www.unleashedtuning.com/content/view/77/17/)
Thanks guys !
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You can get a 3 Bar anywhere they sell OEM parts. The part number is listed here on a few threads if you look around. Sorry, I don't have it handy.
Quote from: DJE624 on March 17, 2014, 06:18:46 PM
You can get a 3 Bar anywhere they sell OEM parts. The part number is listed here on a few threads if you look around. Sorry, I don't have it handy.
The part number on the sensor is stamped. AA5A-9F479-AB. .
Rock auto part number cx2331
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Yea... It's so wierd that Ford puts one number on the box and another on the part itself... Go figure. :dunno:
Probably had a bunch of printed boxes/labels already, and the parts have the actually updated-in-production numbers.
Tried rock auto and part number didn't work unless I'm doing something wrong . Also tried the part number on part and also didn't work .
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Sorry its cx2231
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Quote from: southtxSHO on March 22, 2014, 01:37:29 PM
Tried rock auto and part number didn't work unless I'm doing something wrong . Also tried the part number on part and also didn't work .
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Rock Auto website shows 0 results in search ....
BUT ... they have an ebay store and it is listed at $90.25 with free shipping ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORCRAFT-CX-2231-Manifold-Absolute-Pressure-Sensor-/321146686679?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac5d58cd7&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORCRAFT-CX-2231-Manifold-Absolute-Pressure-Sensor-/321146686679?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac5d58cd7&vxp=mtr)
Thanks guys !
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