Hi folks,
As some of you know, I enjoy building audio systems.
I've just started a new project on my own Flex, which already has a pretty good system in it (see thread http://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10361 (http://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10361) )
Now this has been a pretty good setup, it is time to push the limits of what this platform can do.
Current system:
Stock Non-Sony head unit
JBL MS8 processor-amp
Vibe Slick Stereo 4 main 4ch amp
Vibe Slick Bass 1 sub amp
Center - JBL GTO 329 3.5" coaxial
Front speakers - JBL Power 6x8 coaxials (with tweeter defeated)
Pillar tweeters - stock location, Bravox silk tweeters from their Carbon Fiber component set
Rear speakers - stock
Subwoofers - Exile Audio Xtec 10 shallow subs in spare tire well enclosure
Deadening/sealing by GTMat
The new system will comprise of a much more robust front stage, with a full 3-way set per side. As of right now, I'm set on using Dayton RS 225-4 8" midbass for the doors, RS75-4 3" midrange in the pillars along with Dayton ND20FB 3/4" neo tweeters to match them. This means the pillars will be custom-built with fiberglass and stuff, which will be fun. If you've followed me at all in my other threads about audio, you'll know I hate fiberglass, bondo, etc. Unfortunately, there's no better way to stuff a pillar with more than it came with. The center channel will be a Dayton RS125-4, significantly bigger than stock. It will be paired with another ND20FB tweeter so the front stage is timbre-matched as best I can get.
So, pics will be coming as I build the system, and I'll try to document the process to make it easier for the next guy who's interested in doing similar things.
Take care and I'll update this as I go.
Sounds great" (pun intended) can't wait to see the results.
I always enjoy reading your build threads.
Maybe you can "steal" geswek's gauge pod and put it to your own uses ;) Looking forward to this audio update!
Here's some pics of the first stage, the pillars.
First I drew a stencil to make sure I've got a good size for the pillars. I tried to make the design as compact as possible.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da27b3127ccef598ba5ee44700000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140407021120509.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da27b3127ccef59893bb251e00000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140407021135241.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This is the completed basic shape. I made this by using 1/2" MDF, jigsawed outer shape (carefully!) and routed inner circles. The outside of this shape is covered in 13/16" Melamine laminate, which I wrapped around using an iron to activate the adhesive. Two layers are used.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da26b3127ccef59abff97d6600000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140408024939102.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da26b3127ccef59b7ce61dcc00000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140408024944431.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This is the moment of truth. The pillars are taken out, and cut up to fit the pod shape. The goal here was to be as non-intrusive as possible, while still fitting these speakers in here perfectly. This was TOUGH.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da26b3127ccef59b25c45d5a00000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140408024952240.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da26b3127ccef59bd6669c2900000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140408024955914.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da26b3127ccef59adfb4fc2b00000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140408025000015.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da26b3127ccef59b608e1daa00000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140408025004186.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da26b3127ccef59a20563d1e00000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140408025008160.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da26b3127ccef59b5c161d2c00000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140408025012169.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This next part is where the extent of my skills come to a screeching halt. I glued the forms together after test-fitting in the car and then slathered the shape with Bondo Gold. If this step didn't have to happen, I would be a much happier man. I overdid it and now i've got serious work to do to get these right. I'll be sanding for days. I will win though.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da29b3127ccef5851d1c129c00000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140409032035723.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da29b3127ccef585da28d36300000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140409032038836.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da29b3127ccef585bf91124000000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140409032041943.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This part was done with kitty-hair short strand reinforced bondo. I'm OK with this part.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da29b3127ccef5847f2ab3e700000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140409032045554.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da29b3127ccef585e6e6d3b300000040O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140409032049572.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Quote from: SHOdded on April 10, 2014, 03:19:45 PM
Maybe you can "steal" geswek's gauge pod and put it to your own uses ;) Looking forward to this audio update!
I think our pillars vary too much, but it would be good for small tweeters!
Mad skillz with the pillars, Lanson! First time using Bondo? I bet next time comes out perfect!
Quote from: SHOdded on April 10, 2014, 06:05:13 PM
Mad skillz with the pillars, Lanson! First time using Bondo? I bet next time comes out perfect!
Nah I have used it tons of time, though actually usually Rage Gold which I could not find in time to make this work. I'm used to Rage's more forgiving nature, and while I do hate this process regardless of what I use, Rage makes things less...sucky.
However, I have GREAT news. Observe!
This is after a first pass with aggressive bits, and low grit paper on my sander.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef581210edf2300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411015204862.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef581a9a8dfc100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411020909200.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef580f14d7e7400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411015212154.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef5812c411ec200000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411015236716.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I went easy on the filler this time around, and used a tiny spreader. I mixed light on the catalyst and when it was still "green" and uncured, I gently sanded as it hardened.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef580e1f97ec800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411015302759.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef581d7f3dfa500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411020935243.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef58094fcbf5f00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411021557269.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
Now we're talking! It is pretty much equal from side to side, a major concern I had from the beginning. I then hit them with high-build primer.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef581176bdf5d00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411020946158.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef581cda35ec800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411015327409.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef58158431efa00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140411021620840.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
All that is left is a bit of final sanding with high grit paper by hand, and then I'll wrap the pillars in material. I am VERY pleased with the turnout so far, and so very happy I was able to pull out of the Bondo-hell that I put myself in.
So, I got home this afternoon and got right to work. The UPS also delivered a Parts Express box with all my speakers, what great timing!
Here they are, test-fit into position. Also I've cleaned up the pillars a bit more.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef582489ce77d00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034343032.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef583b39c06e400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034347082.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Sorry I didn't take pics in the middle of doing the vinyl wrapping, but my hands were busy and sticky with adhesive most of the time. That said, they turned out fantastic!
Left side done first
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef58256d5e73b00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034350642.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef582965be7d500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034356600.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef582da8a661200000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034407589.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef582ced6664400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034412514.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef583c0c8c72100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034423871.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This is through the windshield, so you can see the fit. I actually improved the factory's fit and finish with these pillars, because my gaps are nil vs. the stock ones.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef582a281e71500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034440348.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Right side done next
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef583fe2a46ec00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034445071.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef5835617c7b500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034457354.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This was hours later so I had to head to bed, but I did almost get one pillar completely done except for the grille which will come later
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da30b3127ccef5830e4a46f400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412034515944.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I'm very, very happy with the outcome so far. I ran into a bit of a problem where the primer came off the pillar in places, while I was spraying the adhesive. I'd lay the vinyl down on the pillar and get ready to reposition and stretch it, and the backside of the vinyl was covered in the pillar's primer! That scared me, and for some reason the primer did not properly adhere to the pillar in some areas. In the end, I simply pulled the vinyl back off, cut another piece and re-sprayed both, then applied. The primer missing did not seem to affect the look of the pillars. I have some lumps (very minor), and those should go away when the sun bakes them after they are installed a while. Speaking of sun baking, I used a special high-temp vinyl adhesive spray I got from my upholstery shop I go to. A little expensive but wow, what a great product (so far.)
Tomorrow, I'll get these finished and wired up for sound!
I just finished both sides, wired them up, and calibrated the MS8 for them. I chose a cross point of 450hz @ 24dB/oct slope, and in the wiring to the tweeter there is an additional 5,000hz passive crossover @ 12dB/oct slope. End result, midrange plays 450-20,000 and tweeter plays 5,000 to 20,000 (roughly.) Because they are so close together, they play as one and it sounds fantastic, even without a crossover to stop the mids from playing up. They beam as expected but the tweeter takes over, so acoustically it is a sweet combo.
Here's some finishing pics
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58c20680fca00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412213904773.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58d86e4ae6900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412213909144.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58de2b52f3a00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412213922377.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Fit is actually better than stock in some ways
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58da3896fbe00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140412213926732.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Freakin' Awesome Lanson! :clap2: Beautiful work!
How will you manage the "grille" or speaker cloth to avoid a lens effect on the tweets?
Are you still using larger mids in the doors?
I can't see any if the pics and it's killing me???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great job Lanson, looks fantastic as usual. Looking forward to the sound results.
2010 RCM non PP
K&N panel filter
sp534 @ 30
unleashed 93 performance+firm shift+boost
more to come.....
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 12, 2014, 07:17:04 PM
Freakin' Awesome Lanson! :clap2: Beautiful work!
How will you manage the "grille or cloth to avoid a lens effect on the tweets?
Are you still using larger mids in the doors?
I have acoustically transparent grille cloth, so I'll make an inner shape out of 1/4" (probably rout the edges for a cool curved look) and then cover it with the cloth. Remember an important trait of 3/4" tweeters over something perhaps a bit larger...they are just small enough that they do not beam, even at the highest audible frequencies. So, there should be no lensing or any ill effect as long as the grille cloth and the frame that it is attached to doesn't acoustically mess with the signature.
The factory panel was screwing up the sound quality of the tweeters I had in there, because of the plastic grille holes and shape. I'm happy to be rid of that now!
Oh, and to answer your question on the mid, there will be a significant upgrade on those soon. I'll be cutting the door dramatically (but it will still look really cool, trust me!)
Quote from: bigmoneycloser on April 12, 2014, 07:43:13 PM
I can't see any if the pics and it's killing me???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I use Shutterfly for hosting, maybe it is being blocked on your setup somehow?
Try a diff browser and let me know, I can also pump some images directly to you if you like.
Quote from: Lanson on April 12, 2014, 08:46:53 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 12, 2014, 07:17:04 PM
Freakin' Awesome Lanson! :clap2: Beautiful work!
How will you manage the "grille or cloth to avoid a lens effect on the tweets?
Are you still using larger mids in the doors?
I have acoustically transparent grille cloth, so I'll make an inner shape out of 1/4" (probably rout the edges for a cool curved look) and then cover it with the cloth. Remember an important trait of 3/4" tweeters over something perhaps a bit larger...they are just small enough that they do not beam, even at the highest audible frequencies. So, there should be no lensing or any ill effect as long as the grille cloth and the frame that it is attached to doesn't acoustically mess with the signature.
The factory panel was screwing up the sound quality of the tweeters I had in there, because of the plastic grille holes and shape. I'm happy to be rid of that now!
Oh, and to answer your question on the mid, there will be a significant upgrade on those soon. I'll be cutting the door dramatically (but it will still look really cool, trust me!)
Thanks... the significance of the upgrade is even more important with the lensing info!
Can hardly wait to see how you manage the door speakers and time delay to blend with the A pillar set. When it's all done you should have a denser sound field also with better stereo imaging for sure!
Quote from: bigmoneycloser on April 12, 2014, 07:43:13 PM
I can't see any if the pics and it's killing me???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trust me it cheaper and easier on your wallet if you don't see.
That turned out very well.. Can't wait to SEE your next AUDIO improvement. :kakashi4:
Very nice work, and thanks for taking the time to document with photos and sharing it!
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 12, 2014, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: Lanson on April 12, 2014, 08:46:53 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 12, 2014, 07:17:04 PM
Freakin' Awesome Lanson! :clap2: Beautiful work!
How will you manage the "grille or cloth to avoid a lens effect on the tweets?
Are you still using larger mids in the doors?
I have acoustically transparent grille cloth, so I'll make an inner shape out of 1/4" (probably rout the edges for a cool curved look) and then cover it with the cloth. Remember an important trait of 3/4" tweeters over something perhaps a bit larger...they are just small enough that they do not beam, even at the highest audible frequencies. So, there should be no lensing or any ill effect as long as the grille cloth and the frame that it is attached to doesn't acoustically mess with the signature.
The factory panel was screwing up the sound quality of the tweeters I had in there, because of the plastic grille holes and shape. I'm happy to be rid of that now!
Oh, and to answer your question on the mid, there will be a significant upgrade on those soon. I'll be cutting the door dramatically (but it will still look really cool, trust me!)
Thanks... the significance of the upgrade is even more important with the lensing info!
Can hardly wait to see how you manage the door speakers and time delay to blend with the A pillar set. When it's all done you should have a denser sound field also with better stereo imaging for sure!
Yes the ms8 processor accounts for time delay and many other things automatically when calibrating.
The ms8 is really in its element working in a system like this.
Thanks!
So to update, I created the grilles right after work out of 1/4" MDF
I made these beauties with a jigsaw, and a holesaw and some CAREFUL eyeballing. haha.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef58886cdddb500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021531680.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Here's maybe a better shot of just how small this part is
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef589fed3fddb00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021534970.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Shot them with black paint
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef589a000fd2700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021537841.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This was tedious right here... I used my upholstery glue and just sprayed it into a paper plate, then used a tiny foam applicator pad (the ones I usually use to detail a car's tiny little crevices like a door jamb) and rubbed the glue only on the sides of the shape. I let it sit a little while to tack up, and then placed the grille cloth on in a tight fashion. The tricky part was keeping the glue off the face!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef5887b201c8e00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021542877.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Forgive the weak pics here, it was late and my camera phone shots are just awful.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef589a102bdbd00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021604489.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef589a7ca3c4600000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021609115.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef589dfd3bd5300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021615629.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef5884b5b9ddd00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021635796.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Now, I'm going to go over all the bad stuff that happened.
Ok, so as you can probably tell the pillars are pretty much out of the way and done. I'm 95% happy with them, and for my first ones ever, I can definitely live with the result. Let me share with you some of the pitfalls in my design, so if you're following along you'll make less mistakes than I did (or new ones, but that's cool 'cause we learn.)
1st mistake, and it was a biggie, do not use Melamine wrap around your shape (the white strip stuff I used to make the lip edge of each of these) if you can help it. The material has a few undesirable traits and one just bit me in the butt this afternoon. There's this adhesive that is heat-activated, on the backside of this material. Well, the Vegas afternoon sun beat down on my car, and partially lifted the vinyl where it attaches to this Melamine strip. I can tell it is this adhesive lifting, because under the vinyl it is ultra-sticky but the adhesive from the Melamine strip is stuck to the vinyl, and not stuck to the Melamine! So, the right product to use is something else, like a piece of thicker laminate without the glue perhaps. Pros use low-temp plastic, cut with a saw from sheets into strips. They take a heat gun and bend it slowly around the shape intended, and air-staple it as they go. The plastic holds a shape better (which gets to my next issue with the Melamine strip in a minute), and will work in deeper lip shapes or any thickness you need, because you cut it to fit. This would be great if you can find some, and next time I build some of these, I'll absolutely search harder for it.
2nd problem with the Melamine, is that it bends. There's this slight bowing in my shape on the straight lines that make up the "teardop" type form. This was noticeable when I built my grilles, because that shape was the original stencil exactly and it had no bow on the straight lines. End result, the grille looks ever so slightly less exactly like the shape it is meant to match with. Now, I may end up making two more grilles, with this exact bow shape built in to it to get it "just right". I'm not really sure yet.
Another major mistake was the over-application of Bondo on the first round. In truth, you should never use more than golf ball's size of filler at a time, in most situations. I just got rushed and it was a huge time-killer. The other applications were tiny and worked flawlessly.
At some point, before I started this whole thing with these pillars, I should have found a plastic sealer product of some sort that helps attach the primer to the plastic. In some places (not visible wrapped in vinyl but I know it happened so it bothers me), the high-build primer came right off, after I hit it with the upholstery spray glue. It was a darn mess, because the primer stuck like crazy to the glue as expected, but the plastic and the primer separated as if they were never really together. I cleaned the plastic pillars aggressively with isopropyl alcohol, sanded and "keyed" the pillar, and then cleaned it again...but it didn't work. I would have tried acetone but I wasn't certain the acetone and the plastic would be happy together. I should have tried to find a plastic sealing / etching product that locked into the plastic and created an initial biting layer for the primer underneath. The Bondo Gold filler had some of this same problem in some areas, but not anywhere in the critical area of the bond I made, or its final shape.
I wish I would have made the pillar shape a little larger, for a bigger midrange down the road some day. There's a GR-Research speaker I saw recently, and I REALLY want to try it sometime. Well, it ain't gonna fit these pillars, that's for sure. This is more of a compromise thing and a future-planning thing you have to think about, when you build. I didn't want to kill my vision in the corners of the pillars, in case some kid runs out in the street corner or something, and then suddenly because of the pillars I built, I couldn't see. That would be a really bad thing, somewhat like getting rearended because your tail lights are blacked out. It is a mod and you did it, and now someone gets hurt, etc etc. That might be extreme and pointless to consider, but it was on my mind and effected my build's plans.
I just barely over-stretched the vinyl on the passenger side. I actually think a few more days of baking heat will pull the stretches out, but it is annoying. The driver's side which was the first one, really just fell together and the vinyl laid down perfectly, with minor tugging and then lots of folding and cutting. Well, the passenger side, it just didn't have the same ease in laying down and wanted to stretch like crazy all over the shape. End result, there's tiny stress stretches at the very bottom of the shape, and apparently I'm the only one that can see them in my family but I bet you guys with eagle eyes see them in the passenger one. Vinyl can be a really tough product to work with, and it never really lays down 100% completely flat, so be sure to use a good vinyl and use one with a nice aggressive texture, to hide the natural imperfections that come from using it. As you can tell, the vinyl I chose is a 100% perfect match to the charcoal interior panels. This definitely helps!
Oh yes, I made another critical mistake and that was cutting the pillar's little internal piece of material that rests inside with the speakers. That is high-pile carpet and to get the shape exactly right, I actually cut it INSIDE the pillar. I glued it in, and had to use an exacto knife to cut out the excess carpet. BAD idea. I must have been really tired when I thought this up, because...well the knife cut the vinyl too. None of the cuts are outside of the pillar pod's little lip, but on the lip itself there's many little tiny slices. I had tried to keep the knife far down in the pod lip, but it must have tracked up a few times and made some damage. Luckily the speaker grilles completely hide this, but again... I KNOW it is there. If I were doing this again, I'd just take the shape very similar to the grilles I made, and just cut it exactly and place it in.
So, despite all the little boo-boos and learning mistakes, they sound fantastic and meet design goal criteria in all other ways. I am definitely happy with the result and my next pillars will be that much better from the lessons learned by the mistakes I made.
Remember that factory pillars run about $80 or so, unless you can score them cheaper somehow. There's no substitute for this type of custom work, if you want your vocals and high frequency instruments up on the dash and able to present a rock-solid sound stage, so it really is up to you as to how much you want quality sound. Gotta get through it to get to it! Or hire someone like me to get through it for you. HA! If anybody wanted something like this, I'd do it but I'd demand a grip of money for the time and frustration. These were definitely a 10 out of 10 in difficulty level for me, and compare something like that wood speaker box with the many angled cuts in it that I did for Stefan's (Reidster's) build, that would be like 3 or 4 our of 10 in difficulty. So this is nuts.
Well, the center channel is next. Here's a teaser shot.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef588203f5c2400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140415021559535.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Lanson... Stellar looking job! Bravo! :thumb:
Your explanation of pitfalls is invaluable!... Still I may come over to vegas... see some shows and see what magic we can dream up for my SHO! :beer2:
This has been real "miniature" work compared to the box you built previously. Working by hand with materials, techniques, and booboo-fixing all take the mind of a craftsman and the precision of a surgeon. No wonder you chose such quality componentry to reside inside.
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 15, 2014, 12:01:13 AM
Lanson... Stellar looking job! Bravo! :thumb:
Your explanation of pitfalls is invaluable!... Still I may come over to vegas... see some shows and see what magic we can dream up for my SHO! :beer2:
Thanks!
I'm down to help with the SHO, just need time w/ it.
Quote from: SHOdded on April 15, 2014, 07:33:31 AM
This has been real "miniature" work compared to the box you built previously. Working by hand with materials, techniques, and booboo-fixing all take the mind of a craftsman and the precision of a surgeon. No wonder you chose such quality componentry to reside inside.
Yeah I swore up and down those little grilles were going to snap in half if I so much as looked at them funny, but they actually are really durable. When I used the hole saw (Harbor Freight btw), I think the heat from the saw actually bonded the MDF better than normal.
Funny thing about the components, especially with the pillars... they are CHEAP! Seriously, Dayton RS speakers are a smoking deal. The whole front stage (including 8" woofers in the door) will be about $200. That's doors, pillars, and center. That's the typical price of a mild component set. I definitely recommend them, just cross them before their metal cone breakup starts so they stay clean.
Are using the ms8 to cross them or a separate external xover
Quote from: glock-coma on April 15, 2014, 10:23:40 AM
Are using the ms8 to cross them or a separate external xover
Here's the setup, for clarity:
MS8 has 8 channels it can control.
1&2 - LF, RF pillar, crosses at 450 hz @ 24dB/oct highpass. I have two runs of wire parallel on the outputs, one set goes directly to the midrange, one set goes to a 12dB/oct passive crossover that is designed to cross at 5000 hz with 4ohm. The output of this crossover goes to the Dayton tweeter. These are powered directly off the MS8's internal amp
3&4 - are the doors, they bandpass from 80 hz to 450 hz, both slopes are 24dB/oct. These are powered off the 4ch amp, on channels 1 and 2.
5&6 - are the rear doors. They are high-passed at 100hz, 24dB/oct.
7 - is the center, this is crossed at 150 hz @ 24dB/oct high-pass. There is a parallel wiring going on here, just like the pillars. One set of wires go to the mid, and one set goes through a 12dB/oct crossover, 5000 hz, 4 ohm to the tweeter. This is powered off channel 3 of the 4ch amp.
8 - is the sub, it is crossed from 80hz @ 24dB/oct and has a subsonic filter with a more shallow cross at 12dB/oct of 20hz. This is run off the sub amp.
Changes down the line, will be a swap to power the pillars off the amp, and swap the center to the MS8. Not a huge rush, as it sounds fine right now though. Also, I may add additional crossover components to the mids, to low-pass them. Just a work-in-progress.
That's pretty sweet, I'm probably going to try and tackle something similar to this soon. Thx for the setup layout
Quote from: glock-coma on April 15, 2014, 12:13:58 PM
That's pretty sweet, I'm probably going to try and tackle something similar to this soon. Thx for the setup layout
Not a problem, just hit me up if you have any questions as you go.
Just a minor update, the right pillar looks to be taking some heat from the sun, and sadly the vinyl feels like it is lifting right off the pillar. I suspect the primer underneath has failed and it is stuck securely to the vinyl with the adhesive. I'll need to peel off the vinyl, clean it up, and then try again probably this weekend. Frustrating but fixable I think.
I started with the center channel this afternoon. I cut this piece out of 1/4" MDF, to fit the original shape. Incredibly, I was able to use the two factory screws that attach the small stock speaker to the metal mount. I carefully drilled and countersunk two screw holes in my piece here, and in fact it is screwed down in this pic. The Dayton RS125-4 fits right over that, in a cutout.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b7d39f556200000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140418030219405.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b6602fb46f00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140418030241920.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b7b442151400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140418030257297.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This is what I came up for, as a total solution. I match-cut a 1/2" piece of MDF, one that was 1/2" longer on the end that would be towards the engine compartment. This extra space affords me just barely enough room to mount my tweeter. This will have to be exposed in the final design, but the rest will be covered with a grille. I really wanted a fully round grille in the center, which is infinitely easier to cut and form. The tweeter is installed from behind which is how these ND20FB's are designed. I had to make a relief routing shape to fit this properly back there. I hope I can fully hide all that once the install is covered in vinyl, after sanding and more shaping.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b73ef715e400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140418030301325.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b7983f944f00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140418030304934.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Hey guys, some update pics
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da38b3127ccef5b225aa624800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140420031221262.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da38b3127ccef5b2e4e5a3cf00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140420031224104.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Fits right in! Were you able to get OEM material for the covering?
Quote from: SHOdded on April 20, 2014, 06:16:57 AM
Fits right in! Were you able to get OEM material for the covering?
Great question, no that is Dynasty Coal vinyl. It might as well be OEM though!
Just some update pics on the fly, excuse the rough shadows and light as I know it does hide some of the shape a bit... I was driving though.
I redid the center just a bit, to get it to sit more appropriately in the spot without as much a gap. This now makes it look like it came with the car, somehow.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da02b3127ccef5bb9702ae0b00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140423194438548.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Here's the redone pillars. Better grille cloth, a redo of the vinyl, and improved inside with Ensolite foam instead of carpet.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da02b3127ccef5bb9e296f8c00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140423194459636.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da02b3127ccef5bb3591aec900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140423194517833.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
The next phases:
My new passive crossover inductors and capacitors are on their way, and should be here next week. I'll build new highpass crossovers for the tweeters, and new low-pass crossovers for the pillar mids and center. I'm using high quality poly caps and air-core inductors, from Parts Express (PE). PE also let me know that my backordered midbass 8" Daytons are now in stock, so a pair should be on its way as well.
Very Cool! What is the frequency? high or low pass?
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 28, 2014, 11:31:16 PM
Very Cool! What is the frequency? high or low pass?
That box is a 2-way, 2nd order crossover, target is 5200hz on a Bessel alignment.
Little update:
Midbass are due delivered today, can't wait to pull them out and snap some pics.
I decided speaker connections will NOT be my weak link in my system, so I ponied up for some XT60 high-current connectors to connect every single speaker, and every connection point from these crossovers. These are the connectors that are used in high power R/C or robotic setups, so these will suffice with car audio signals just fine. I have to wait for them to come in, but if want to see what I'm using just google "XT60 connector" or look on eBay. I got a pack of 20 pairs, and if I did my math right I'll be using 13 pair in this whole car including the door speakers.
Should be some more crossover work tonight.
Oh, and really sorry for the junky, quick cameraphone quality pics all the time. I have a nice Nikon but its one of those things that I don't think about when I have my hands in sawdust, hot glue, plastic filings, etc... I don't like even thinking about it. When this is all done and I'm able to showcase it at the quality level that I feel is good enough for a high res photoshoot, rest assured I'll make sure to show everything I've done the best I can.
You need one of those 360 degree camera setups like they did in The Matrix :D
Minor update, got another crossover done. These things take FOREVER to make! I don't know why, it should be easy but it just takes hours to get it right.
I tried tweaking the locations this time, and this worked out better in some ways, worse in others (regarding wiring together.)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da11b3127ccef5a8808aaf0f00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140501034343052.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da11b3127ccef5a8d355ef6100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140501034347914.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da11b3127ccef5a9a9574e2200000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140501034355789.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
One more to go, for the center.
The woofers came in but I haven't done anything more than oogle at them and ponder what I've got myself into with such a big speaker in the door. Oh well.
Awesome work. I really wish I had the time and knowledge to take a build to this level. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
Beautiful Crosses, fantastic work!... Anticipating the Mids install!
Thanks guys!
Minor update:
Here's the last crossover done, this one took a lot less time because I'm getting better at understanding exactly how to make them. This one also looks a little more refined, same reasons.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db20b3127ccef657138432ba00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140502031655281.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db20b3127ccef656cb1b933500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140502031658985.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
All boxes done, ready for their connectors which arrive via mail hopefully tonight.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db20b3127ccef657891d326e00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140502031720069.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Also tonight, I plan on tearing the car's doors apart and begin the 8" midbass upgrade project. There will be carnage!
Those are some beefy crossovers. Too bad the inner beauty has to be hidden!
I had to build a computer when I got home (yeah, that's another hobby), but I did get a couple hours in the garage and I decided to make them count. I got my new high-current XT60 connectors, and I soldered these in to my crossover wiring while heatshrinking and techflexing it all to my spec. It is subtle, but I used 3 different types of techflex, based on each crossover. There's black with a green stripe, black with a red stripe, and black with a white stripe. The stripe corresponds to the speaker's position. L is white, R is red, C is green, just like home audio.
Also, I broke out the Nikon for some better shots.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db23b3127ccef6500378fa7700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503063644100.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db23b3127ccef6507915fa2700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503063645325.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db23b3127ccef650775d7b5800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503063647708.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db23b3127ccef65170841b5600000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503063648597.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db23b3127ccef65033937bb400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503063650540.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db23b3127ccef651907b9ae900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503063651420.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db23b3127ccef65189785b4e00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503063652382.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
So a long day and a lot of progress.
I started the day off with a wicked headache and nausea, so I decided heavy woodwork was out of the question for today. Didn't want to lose a finger when I'm not at my best. Instead, I decided to complete overhaul the interior wiring, and get those crossovers installed.
I decided to pull the seats completely this time. I started with the torx bolts that hold the seatbelts to the seat
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db22b3127ccef652bd76233a00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503201146153.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
If you've never seen it before, this is how to remove the seat. Just remove these two bolts on this rail, and of course remove the two bolts in the front.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db22b3127ccef65241f3a2f100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503201147026.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Seat is out, started work on the teardown
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db22b3127ccef6537900036200000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503201149988.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db22b3127ccef65294e2632200000030O30AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503201149038.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D3/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db22b3127ccef6523889e22f00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140503201151019.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
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I decided to cut the rear vent tubes a bit, to give the amps and processor some more room. Nobody will miss them, and it makes it easier to work around under those seats.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65c81b9287c00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071013816.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d41ad084400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071015730.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65c06b668a800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071017190.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65c9abde9dd00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071017976.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I created the rest of my wiring, to mate to the crossovers. Again, the techflex with the white stripe goes to the Left side, green stripe to Center, and red to Right, as per standard home theater wiring.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65dbb8c081800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071021816.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d052b08e000000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071022799.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Progress!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65c2402e93d00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071025641.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65dfb5589d100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071026363.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65cc1f1281400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071027337.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d9472c95900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071028106.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
While the carpet was out, I cleaned it thoroughly using Chemical Guys' excellent carpet cleaner spray and a vacuum. Then, I reinstalled the carpet and prepped the wiring for installation.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65c93cc280000000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071029959.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65dd311898100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071029140.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I installed the amps a little closer to the front, to give the big rubber mats in the rear a tiny bit extra room to sit properly. I really like the look I'm getting with the wiring on these amps.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d2c4cc93b00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071031007.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d6b49898500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071033546.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65da105089c00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071034486.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65c07dc285a00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071036274.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65dc22a481a00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071038204.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65ca227e95b00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071041987.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I got the seat installed, and locked down. Here's the amps under the seat.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65deb98082400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140504071042685.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
That's all I got done today, hopefully tomorrow will be good for doing the doors. If not, I'll wait till next weekend.
I too, never realized there was so much involved in a build such as this. Particularly noting connections and what not.
Impressive to say the least! :ok:
Do you plan on competing in audio competitions at some point, after it's completion?
Quote from: bpd1151 on May 04, 2014, 11:27:08 AM
I too, never realized there was so much involved in a build such as this. Particularly noting connections and what not.
Impressive to say the least! :ok:
Do you plan on competing in audio competitions at some point, after it's completion?
That's a great question. I would say that I could comfortably enter in a SQ competition, and place well, but it wasn't built to compete. However there is a flip-side, and that is that I do take on other builds for friends, family, friends of family, and referrals of those people. When they ask what their car would look like, I can point them to my car and say, something like that. That usually seals the deal. LOL.
Outstanding, Lanson. Wish I lived closer to you and had a pile of money laying around to have you do my car! Actually I would also love to take on a project like this, but I don't have the time. Love the attention to detail and extensive pictures you are sharing. Great work.
Ok, update for the weekend, I woke up in not much better shape than yesterday, so again woodworking was out and I just decided to finish up the interior and get it just right.
There's not many pics here, mainly because the last round of shots you saw told the whole story. But I did rearrange the processor and distribution block on the driver's side, and I think it looks a lot better overall. I also have much easier access to the critical "microphone" port to do calibration/tuning for the MS8, so that's a plus.
Here's the results, pardon the tight quarters and meh shots here, but essentially that's what you get when you install your gear under the seats....they pretty much just disappear.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65daa63c95700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140505035236011.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65da7d6084c00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140505035237797.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65df2afc9b700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140505035233346.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This is with the seat all the way forward
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d4fa0084e00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140505035235216.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
A little anti-climatic, I know.
But fear not, at some point new carnage from the attempt at installing 8" midbass in the doors will result soon. Maybe next weekend if I'm lucky.
In case you were wondering, all this interior work had a serious payoff. With this teardown and rebuild, I was able to change the wiring so the 4ch amp now powers the pillars and the doors, whereas the MS8 powers the center, and the rears. This change gives the pillars WAY more power and they use it well.
The center is a pretty efficient setup compared with the pillars, just due to the cone area and the speaker's design. Yes, they are all from the Dayton RS family of speakers, but they have different efficiencies.
The crossovers all do their job and do it well. Each speaker is responding properly and playing the frequencies intended. The stage is more anchored, more realistic, and the speakers "disappear" from the system because they are no longer playing outside of their intended, optimal ranges where distortion is least. In effect, they just reproduce the sound stage as they are supposed to.
I must say, the XT60 connectors were a good choice, and I'll be using them again and again in the future. I had no problems soldering them on, other than it all being a little tedious and I needed to use my "helping hands" tool (a jig with needle clamps and a simple adjustable armature.) Really good product and they made installing the crossovers into the system a breeze.
Right now, the system is by far the best sounding car I've built. Is it best sounding I've heard? No but I haven't put $3000 worth of speakers in the front stage, either. In fact, I haven't even put 1/10th of that. Pretty amazing for the money I have spent, but I do admit if time is money then this build would be worth a lot.
Auditions are always welcome!
Everything looks pretty good so far. Am I just seeing things or is the driver's head > 90deg off axis of the left tweeter?
Quote from: dalum on May 05, 2014, 11:24:04 AM
Everything looks pretty good so far. Am I just seeing things or is the driver's head > 90deg off axis of the left tweeter?
This is close to correct, maybe 65-75 degrees I would guess. This off-axis performance has been calculated into the design however.
About "beaming", or on-axis vs. off-axis response characteristics, learned from a guy much smarter than me.One great thing I learned early on from Andy Wehmeyer (former Harman guy) from the audio forums is the truth about speaker beaming. Below beaming a speaker operates like a floodlight, not a spotlight. So acoustically, off-axis performance is great up to beaming frequency. It isn't a hard cut-off, but the shift does occur aggressively when heavily off-axis, like the left pillar is to the driver.
The trick is to cross the tweeter (or any speaker really) below beaming frequency, if off-axis performance is the intended goal. To achieve a full 20kHz top end, I elected to use a 3/4" tweeter, which will begin to beam right about 20k. This is also the case of the pillar mid which crosses right at 5200Hz for the same reason. Again another reason the mid crosses at ~400hz (still playing around with that cross point) and interacts with the door speakers there, because those drivers will beam around 2k or thereabouts, assuming an approximately 8" driver. In fact, the only speaker that beams on my system is, purposely, the center channel mid. That 5" driver begins to beam before the tweeter crossover point, but this speaker is dead-center of the dash and fires directly to the windshield, so the combined effect is still proper acoustics (when EQ'd and processed properly by the MS8.)
Playing a speaker below beaming is the key to off-axis performance. This is a big reason I decided to go with the complexity of a pillar two-way + door midbass solution. Typical performance two-way systems are certainly cheaper and easier to work with, but beaming occurs before the ideal cross point in larger drivers. In the case of a 5x7 stock speaker, the speaker beams around ~2700hz one direction and about 1900hz in the other. If the speaker was rotated 90 degrees in the door so the "short" side was upright and the "long" side was side to side, beaming would be much less of an issue than it is now. HOWEVER, that's not the case in the stock config. So what we have is a huge hole in the ~2000 - 3000hz range that the stock system, an aftermarket 5x7 system, or any system that uses a typical woofer in the door, and tweeter in the pillar component setup. To compensate, there's an extra tweeter in the door, but now we're running into interference patterns and all sorts of acoustic issues with the tweeters in the door, and tweeters in the pillars playing the same frequencies, same time. To be short, going with a 3-way setup like I have was the ONLY way to get an ideal sound stage, IMHO in this car.
If you have a 6.5" driver in the door instead, the beam frequency is approx 2100hz assuming actual 6.5". So you would need a LOW playing tweeter to mate in ideal circumstances.
There's more to it than beaming but I decided that this would be a primary focus of my build, and the rest was stuff that naturally placed into that.
Have you found a need for sound deadening in the flex?
Doors, floors anything?
Thx
Quote from: bigmoneycloser on May 05, 2014, 03:40:35 PM
Have you found a need for sound deadening in the flex?
Doors, floors anything?
Thx
Yes indeed, deadening/sealing is key. I preach this often on all the forums, and in fact if you do NOTHING else to a system deadening/sealing would be a great improvement (audio and noise wise, not performance wise). So the Flex is currently equipped with deadening from RAAM Audio and also a brand I wanted to try out, GT Mat. I bought their Onyx and Quadro product to try. Overall, not as good as RAAM for the money but I had to see that for myself.
The trunk area is completely covered in Quadro, as are the door skins inner and outer. Quadro is a product that has two layers of butyl and foil, and foam right on top as a decoupler and minor barrier. I got some pics here and there, let me dig up what I have (some of these might be in my other build log):
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d638b3127ccef3b26e9d825d00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820130820021011992.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d638b3127ccef3b22088826f00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820130820021013571.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d638b3127ccef3b31fbde29100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820130820021216285.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d638b3127ccef3b35a65a2f300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820130820021225943.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
With this one, I knew I was tearing into the doors again soon so I didn't take many pics this round.
Not long ago I helped a forum member build a nice system in their Flex. I would propose that the deadening/sealing we did could be considered IDEAL. Here are some pics of that in-progress:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c4ecc3d64900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140309055135134.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5e9e8378400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140309055415275.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd31b3127ccef5c0df4c5bf400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140311032218425.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c432eed60b00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140309055450880.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Note the foam around the speaker opening
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5579d37ae00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140309055502875.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5796fb67b00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140309055621822.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c4e3b296a700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140309055623986.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd31b3127ccef5c13956fae100000030O10AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140311032410652.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd31b3127ccef5c1b558faa900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140311032541247.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd31b3127ccef5c1657afae300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140311032559456.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd31b3127ccef5c07dbf5b5600000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140311032616229.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Foam added around the speaker, couples to the door panel foam and keeps the speaker output from bouncing around in the plastic door.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd31b3127ccef5c0756cdab100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140311032639856.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Needless to say, those doors were like vaults to operate, and sounded as such. Also, those Image Dynamics 5x7's are AMAZING in a well-deadened/sealed door like that.
I actually bought more deadener to finish up my doors when I get in there, and I'll try to detail my work as I go too.
Ideally the sound deadening material is an acoustical necessity . My experience with the old school dyna mat is that it worked well but for a full tilt install it adds a LOT of weight . Is the newer stuff any better ?
Quote from: SwampRat on May 05, 2014, 05:50:58 PM
Ideally the sound deadening material is an acoustical necessity . My experience with the old school dyna mat is that it worked well but for a full tilt install it adds a LOT of weight . Is the newer stuff any better ?
Yes, what has been observed in the industry of acoustic deadening has been a shift from asphalt-based products to butyl-based. Asphalt-based products relied almost completely on mass-loading to lower the resonant frequency of the vibration energy. As a result, it was quite heavy and I did build many systems with Dynamat Original. Also, ther was RAAMmat original which was also asphalt-based. A damn mess was virtually guaranteed, and asphalt products smell.
A shift to butyl-based products (including Dynamat Xtreme, a great product but very expensive per sq. foot) ensued. Now butyl can mass-load, but it has a unique property inherent of visco-elastic materials. Quite literally, butyl (and other visco-elastic stuff) can convert vibration energy into heat. They do this with extreme inefficiency so the heat does not actually matter, but the vibration reduction does. A constraining layer like foil is used as well. Serves as part barrier, part stiffener, etc., basically a great sympathetic addition to a visco-elastic material.
http://sounddeadenershowdown.com/ (http://sounddeadenershowdown.com/) has some great educational points of view on the topic. Don (owner of that site) is well known on forums for being a good conversationalist with this topic, so by all means email him if you need gritty details. He points our 4 major things. Kill panel noise and resonance, Block air borne sound, "Decouple objects that would otherwise transmit vibration or make noise themselves by making intermittent contact (rattles)", Absorb.
Quite frankly, I agree. His products are also great. I like RAAMmat better, but I have used Don's stuff before and it is a good way to go too.
Interesting discussion that parallels talk from avs forums concerning home theaters. I built a home theater that is decoupled from the rest of the house and has 2 layers of 5/8 drywall with a sound deadening glue between the layers. The noise floor in that room is crazy! You are convincing me more and more that I need to find time and money to do this to my car.
I didn't realize there was that much to off axis response and "beaming". I just knew off axis generally sucked and some speakers had better responses at it then others. Guess I have some reading to do.
Quote from: Woody on May 05, 2014, 07:45:52 PM
Interesting discussion that parallels talk from avs forums concerning home theaters. I built a home theater that is decoupled from the rest of the house and has 2 layers of 5/8 drywall with a sound deadening glue between the layers. The noise floor in that room is crazy! You are convincing me more and more that I need to find time and money to do this to my car.
IMO just buy a box of deadener and Ensolite from Raamaudio (or a good product of equivalent or better quality if there is one) and have it at the ready. Get a couple of rollers (wood or rubber), and have some good lightweight mechanic gloves on hand so you can lay deadener down and not cut yourself up like an emo kid. Just have it on tap, so when an hour or two of free time pops up, you can run out and begin your work. One panel at a time, one step at a time. Just have everything you need so the opportunity can present it self.
Oh, and I retuned/calibrated again, now that I'm pleased with the frequency response of the front pillars and center. Here's the new calibration for reference:
Ch1 and 2, pillars high pass - 400hz @ 4th order - powered by amp 75W per channel
Ch3 and 4, doors bandpass - 80hz - 400hz @ 4th order - powered by amp 75W per channel
Ch5 and 6, rear doors high pass - 120hz @ 4th order - powered off MS8 20W per channel
Ch7 center, high pass 100hz @ 4th order - powered off MS8 20W
Ch8 sub, low pass 80hz @ 4th order, powered off sub amp 600W - infrasonic filter set at 20hz, 1st order slope only.
These settings are a more conservative setup than I've played with, and I find that even at really, really loud volumes, the whole system stays completely composed and coherent, up to the point where rattles (like mirrors and glass) become a real problem. I still have to get those 8's in the door, but right now if I had to leave it exactly as-is, I wouldn't be ashamed of the results!
For anybody thinking of following my path, DO IT! Find a pair of pillars on eBay or in the salvage yards, and get to work. Acoustically, I think I'm getting a really special sound out of the Flex with this setup. Maybe instead of going with Dayton RS75's in the pillar, consider the RS100 if you can fit it, or the GR Research LGK 1.0 speaker, which is something I really want to try.
More to come, probably this weekend if all goes well.
Quote from: dalum on May 05, 2014, 08:04:55 PM
I didn't realize there was that much to off axis response and "beaming". I just knew off axis generally sucked and some speakers had better responses at it then others. Guess I have some reading to do.
See if you can find posts by this man here, this a link to all posts by Andy W. from DIYMA's forum http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/search.php?searchid=8270087 (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/search.php?searchid=8270087)
Does the flex have and air bag in the a pillars? I couldn't figure out how to get mine off even after reading the instructions in the shop manual.
Quote from: dalum on May 06, 2014, 03:13:20 PM
Does the flex have and air bag in the a pillars? I couldn't figure out how to get mine off even after reading the instructions in the shop manual.
Technically, the pillars house the tether that the side airbags work with. In an accident that would trigger them, I would expect the pillars to pop out of their mounting but hold firm with a thick plastic tether (I can show pics of this if you like.) Now for my customization, I left all of that completely stock, so it will work. The bottom section is designed to remain attached to the car but the top will have some room to allow the side airbag to deploy properly with anchoring.
I can show exactly how to remove these if you need.
Quote from: Lanson on May 06, 2014, 03:56:57 PM
I can show exactly how to remove these if you need.
please do
Quote from: dalum on May 07, 2014, 01:34:31 AM
Quote from: Lanson on May 06, 2014, 03:56:57 PM
I can show exactly how to remove these if you need.
please do
OK I got your back.
First, you'll want to pull back the weatherstripping by the pillar. This will expose some space where you can get your fingertips or a tool to put some pressure.
The clips holding the pillar on are simple metal spring-clips, same as the whole car uses. A yanking motion directly sideways relative to the pillar (yank toward the center console) will pull it off. Yanking motions vs. slow pulling seems to pull the clips off intact better. The pillar looks like this after you pull it.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d903b3127ccef3f800c571a600000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820130722130148353.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
The plastic tether needs to be removed, and to do this I would advise either a tiny flat-head screwdriver, or a pick-tool. There's plastic clips on the top and bottom of this tether attachment, and these clips retain the tether. They must be relieved inward toward the center of the plastic clip holding the tether, and it will release.
Next simply disconnect the tweeter connector and you'll carefully remove the pillar by shifting the bottom out of the way of the dash slots holding it like this pic shows (look down low in the pic)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d903b3127ccef3f857ae317e00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820130722130148213.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
It is very simple, in fact other than the pesky tether there's pretty much nothing to it but a bit of "fiddling", to get it in or out.
Alrighty, minor update for you. I know this will seem like precious little work, but you'd be shocked at how many times I had to make a template to find one that actually worked. And as I type this, I'm not 100% sure this one will work either. Bottom line, an 8" midbass in this car's door is AMBITIOUS, and may not be possible in the most conventional sense. I may be forced to step down to a 7" driver. The problem is that there is insufficient clearance in a few different critical spots. One is the metal of the door (shocker), another is how the sliders for the glass are positioned behind where the speaker is to go, and the worst one is how the plastic door skin's shape is made. In fact, there's a good to excellent chance the door skin itself will need to be worked on rather aggressively for this all to work. Let's see if the pics can convey this. Since I was working with wood/sawdust, I used my camera phone and not my Nikon, so these won't be great shots (sorry):
This is the door skin, as it stands now. To the outside edge, what should be a hole is covered entirely in deadener. Underneath that though is actually thin-gauge sheet steel. So that part of the door is completely sealed. The center section, where the plastic door skin intrudes in, is less sealed (and this will need to be fixed.)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db28b3127ccef647ad0ff7cb00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140509141140843.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db28b3127ccef647acac36c000000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140509141207288.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
My solution for now to that issue mentioned above, was to put deadener with foam into the intrusion, and apply pressure to seal it.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db28b3127ccef646c05a164c00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140509141230624.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db28b3127ccef646eed697e700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140509141253224.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Now in that picture above, you may notice there's this ridge to the left of the speaker opening. That ridge is approximately 1.5" deep relative to the door skin's mounting edge (where it meets the door metal itself.) The "problem" is that there's insufficient clearance on the other side of that ridge, where the speaker is supposed to go. When I place my 8" Dayton RS225 in this area, it simply does not fit. This means that this ridge may need to be ground off. The problem of course is that the door has this ridge because the other side of the door has a big valley, due to this shape! Its a damn mess for customization purposes and I'll have to overcome it somehow.
This is the adapter I made for the meantime. Next up I've got to create another layer (so 1.5" total is my goal) and I hope that this will clear the door in both the skin, and the metal underneath. If it doesn't work, I'm hoping I can at least use this as a template for a successful one. And if this RS225 doesn't fit, I'll have to step down to the 7" version, the Dayton RS180-4 model.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db28b3127ccef6473faef72300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140509141323731.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db28b3127ccef647a057b70d00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140509141350485.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Please rename this build from Extreme to Insane ;) I don't think I have ever seen 8" drvers in a car door. Makes me wonder just what is possible in the Edge. Hmmmmmm ...
http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/Ford-Edge-Door-Panel-Removal-Speaker-Replacement-Guide/index.html (http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/Ford-Edge-Door-Panel-Removal-Speaker-Replacement-Guide/index.html)
Quote from: SHOdded on May 09, 2014, 06:13:47 PM
Please rename this build from Extreme to Insane ;) I don't think I have ever seen 8" drvers in a car door. Makes me wonder just what is possible in the Edge. Hmmmmmm ...
http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/Ford-Edge-Door-Panel-Removal-Speaker-Replacement-Guide/index.html (http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/Ford-Edge-Door-Panel-Removal-Speaker-Replacement-Guide/index.html)
Wow that's a complicated door. You'd have to cut the plastic panel (which is HUGE) and then reform a different shape, but anything is doable. I can see where I'd have to cut that panel and then fab in a large baffle. Depth is everything, so if you have enough depth behind that plastic panel...you could absolutely do it. Unlike mine where I simply unbolted my 5x7 adapter and made this wooden one...you'd have to permanently mod this part on the Edge. But... DOABLE!
Quote from: Lanson on May 07, 2014, 10:48:04 AM
OK I got your back.
From memory my cover only comes down like 1" from the metal after releasing the normal clips. I could barely get my finger in there. I think I saw some woven fabric and white plastic from the top.
Quote from: dalum on May 09, 2014, 08:23:19 PM
Quote from: Lanson on May 07, 2014, 10:48:04 AM
OK I got your back.
From memory my cover only comes down like 1" from the metal after releasing the normal clips. I could barely get my finger in there. I think I saw some woven fabric and white plastic from the top.
Well if it isn't a Flex, yes I'm not much good because they probably used a completely different solution.
Got some crappy pics to show you, but I think you'll get the idea of what I'm dealing with.
I'd like to share at this point that for MOST audio enthusiasts, going with an 8" midbass will NOT be your cup of tea with the Flex, depending on the driver. More on this later.
This is where I started, which is with the wiring. I don't know what you're supposed to call this, so I'm going to call it a wire harness clippy thing. It goes between the wires of the door and other sneaky parts of each side of the car. Our car has really interesting sheetmetal shapes in the front corners by the wheel arches, btw. Anyway, with some tugging and lifting, this lifts out of its little hole and keep the wires protected. Sorry I look like Casper the Ghost, I've got no idea why my camera phone takes such bad pics.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef641eaa1a37100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511032941662.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef641de27a3ed00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511032946777.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I used my unibit and drilled right through this, to route my speaker wire through toward the door.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef640ad2ec30900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511032955411.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef64165d6e3d900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511032959831.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Now, I must tell you, per doing Stephan's Flex and his doors with similar wire I expected to not be able to get through the door accordion boot. When we did his, we spent forever trying to snake the big wire through but it just didn't happen, no matter what we tried. BUT... I decided to try anyway and it seemed like my Flex had a lot more slack in the wiring, because I was able to pull the accordion boot out and straighten it from it's upside down U shape to a short straight run, and the wire went right through with minimal bitching. Anyway, your mileage may vary let's just say that.
This is in the door itself
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6418951621800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033013943.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
So here it is, test fitting!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6409e1383b500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033025495.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef640ca8b830700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033019207.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Those little photos don't share with you that the speaker is actually hitting the plastic window guides that go with the window up and down, while the magnet is actually shoved up and pressing against the window rail. However, as far as test-fits go, it actually does fit in the door and clear the metal. To get this, I had to cut a 3/4" ring and I have my 3/4" baffle adapter, so we're talking 1 1/2" total spacing.
The door panel fits right over it!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6403a6d839900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033030079.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
So I knew I had a possible working solution here, and I set to make it work permanently without striking the actual plastic window guides and rails. I trimmed my baffle and routed the inside with a bevel bit, to get a little extra wiggle room for the woofer to clear the window rail. BTW you can see the window rail in these pics, it is the white plastic on the black rail.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef64050bb024a00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033034307.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef64084ce836500000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033038428.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Here is a shot of my spacers. Now in this you may notice an extra 1/4" spacer. Turns out, that's what it takes to make this work. So total spacing from the window parts is 1 3/4". This clears the plastic guides by 1/8", and the rail by about the same. It is so, so close but it does work.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef640ae9e021000000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033042912.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Feeling quite excited that this big speaker may actually fit in the door, I went ahead and added all the deadener I felt I could to the outside. The inside of the door is already completely covered with GT Mat Quadro, and it is doing a good job so I just added a few sheets of RAAMmat to the outside here. I had to build a little cove or indent with deadener, so the door panel will fit properly.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef64103dde3e100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033047367.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I used a rubberized coating I purchased at Sam's Club, in a bulk of a few cans. It is made by Rubbermaid I think, and it comes out like paint and dries like rubber. This will make the parts I made truly weatherproof so I won't have rotten wood in my doors after a few car washes.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6406936c37300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033056579.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I installed the spacers and the woofer as one, because the mounting screws for this adapter baffle are covered by the spacer. That's why I countersunk the adapter's screws.
Once the speaker was wired up and installed, I went crazy with the deadener again.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef640bfa242bc00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033107554.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6416578e37700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033113290.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6419a6622be00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033118187.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Not shown but done is the other side, the plastic door panel. I added a whole sheet of deadener to the plastic panels, re-affixed the stock acoustic filling, and then covered parts that I could with Ensolite.
Its in there!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6418d0f624400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033124724.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Not pictured is a ring of Ensolite I made around the speaker, to create a gasket as much as I can around the speaker to the door panel. I chose not to cut up the plastic door panel for now, which goes against my original idea of cutting out the plastic and making a grille of speaker cloth. I'm going to see how the acoustics are with the door completely stock. I've done calculations and because I'm using a pass frequency of about 400 hz to the pillars and these speakers aren't playing higher than that, I think that the limitations caused by the smaller ~5x7 oval opening in the plastic panel will be a lot less troublesome than running a speaker that is supposed to cross much higher. My calculations show that the frequencies that this speaker will be playing (let's say 65hz - 400hz) shouldn't really be affected too heavily by that plastic in front of the speaker. But if I get any weird acoustic behavior, I'll be the first to cut up this panel and go with my original plan, be assured. Thing is...the speaker fits and still looks stock, so I have to see how it does. Why destroy the door panel if you don't have to?
Oh, and not pictured but definitely an important part of the issue here is the fact that the plastic door panel's little vertical ridge I pointed out before is plainly contacting the mounting flange of the speaker. With the total mounting height of 1 3/4" of wood + the speaker flange itself, it puts some pressure against the speaker's mounting flange. This is of no negative consequence, but what happens is that when the door panel is installed, there's a tiny bit of force required to get the screws in and the door secure. This is not visible but is worth mentioning for people following along and plotting their design, possibly. Bottom line, not many 8" speaker will fit in this door, and this one barely fits. In fact, I was completely prepared to order a set of RS180-4's but the 1/4" spacer I made saved the day.
For my and my Dayton RS225 woofers, well the problem is that this supposed 8" driver is actually 8 3/4" in diameter on the mounting flange, is fairly deep, and mounts in a 7 1/4" hole. All of this means that she don't want to fit in the darn door, at all. I kept striking the stuff you don't want to hit with the magnet, with the spokes of the speaker's frame, the speaker itself contacting the plastic door panel's dimensions, etc. Finally, with the plastic door panel itself pressed up against the speaker, this is the maximum suitable depth, without a doubt. Other 8" speakers may fit better, if the mounting flange is smaller than 8 3/4". A speaker with an 8 1/2" flange could then be a little deeper, because the mounting flange would not strike the plastic door panel's vertical ridge. It would instead nestle inside the plastic door panel and would be a better fit. A truncated frame on a speaker might work better. I was about to break out my grinder on this frame if the door panel refused to screw closed!
The driver's side will have to come tomorrow. I did do a sample test with just the right side playing and holy moly does it sound amazing. The bass is incredible. This may be a completely crazy build but acoustically I think it will be a huge success.
edited to add... here's a class example of a better fitting midbass.
http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-evolution-zr-mid-bass-driver (http://www.jlaudio.com/car-audio-evolution-zr-mid-bass-driver)
You can buy it here for about $130. Be sure to hunt down a coupon (usually 6% off)..
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_20556_JL_Audio_ZR800-CW.aspx (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_20556_JL_Audio_ZR800-CW.aspx)
See that's ~ 8.25" wide, so you could build a slightly deeper baffle (let's say 2") and just mount it more conventionally, with spacers and your baffle adapter (a copy of the factory plastic part, to match.) I was all set to order these but the Daytons are a bit cheaper, and I wanted to try and stick with the same brand all around to see how it all would sound as one. If I were doing it again, I'd immediately buy these, and the install would probably have gone just a little bit more smooth. I think these and the Daytons have the potential to both sound amazing, in a properly prepared door. The edge may go to the JL for its extra xmax and slightly higher Qts for door use. If the Daytons fail me in any way whatsover, this is exactly the speaker I'm replacing them with.
Need to get some affordable flat panel electrostatics in there! :D. Your measurements are so precise to be able to get 'em in so snug ...
Quote from: SHOdded on May 11, 2014, 06:29:52 AM
Need to get some affordable flat panel electrostatics in there! :D. Your measurements are so precise to be able to get 'em in so snug ...
If I told you it was luck, you wouldn't believe me. But that's exactly what this is.
The other side just got done, I'm tuning now. Insane.
Here's another day's work
The left side wiring completed through the door (Casper strikes again!)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6411e43a3e900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033152023.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6408ad0024c00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033158799.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6410631a39700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033204557.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This time around I took more pics of how I treated the door panel. This is stock
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef64336c1fb5300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511191921553.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
In-progress
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef643d424fbc700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511191931036.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef642f6685ae600000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511191936883.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Test fit of the driver's side
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef64360717af800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511192000121.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef642243f5ad800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511192006598.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Heavily deadened
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef642b1e49be100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511192010676.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
So that's all the pictures I took, the door panel went back on without a fuss and it all bolted together back to stock-look.
As far as the physical equipment installation goes, this system's front stage is DONE! I still need to re-re-redo the pillars and perfect them, but the rest of the system is complete. I was going to make a center grille but for now I like the look of the exposed speaker. I've already got the grille cut and ready for cloth when I feel like it.
Now that these speakers are installed, amp channels have been reassigned, and all has settled, I have a new calibration. Here it is:
Pillars are high-passed 4th order at 370hz
Door 8's are band-passed 4th order, 70hz - 370hz
Center is high-passed 4th order at 90hz
Rear doors high-passed 4th order 120hz
Sub is low-passed 4th order 70hz, and infrasonic filter 20hz 1st order
This is now ready for auditions for anybody who's semi-local. It sounds insane FYI.
Any possibilities of some streaming audio/video of the results???
Well yes I could but the SQ won't come through. It would be a recording of a system playing a recording.
Quote from: Lanson on May 11, 2014, 03:35:18 PM
Here's another day's work
The left side wiring completed through the door (Casper strikes again!)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6411e43a3e900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033152023.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6408ad0024c00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033158799.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db31b3127ccef6410631a39700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511033204557.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
This time around I took more pics of how I treated the door panel. This is stock
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef64336c1fb5300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511191921553.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
In-progress
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef643d424fbc700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511191931036.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef642f6685ae600000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511191936883.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Test fit of the driver's side
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef64360717af800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511192000121.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef642243f5ad800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511192006598.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Heavily deadened
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db30b3127ccef642b1e49be100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140511192010676.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
So that's all the pictures I took, the door panel went back on without a fuss and it all bolted together back to stock-look.
As far as the physical equipment installation goes, this system's front stage is DONE! I still need to re-re-redo the pillars and perfect them, but the rest of the system is complete. I was going to make a center grille but for now I like the look of the exposed speaker. I've already got the grille cut and ready for cloth when I feel like it.
Now that these speakers are installed, amp channels have been reassigned, and all has settled, I have a new calibration. Here it is:
Pillars are high-passed 4th order at 370hz
Door 8's are band-passed 4th order, 70hz - 370hz
Center is high-passed 4th order at 90hz
Rear doors high-passed 4th order 120hz
Sub is low-passed 4th order 70hz, and infrasonic filter 20hz 1st order
This is now ready for auditions for anybody who's semi-local. It sounds insane FYI.
How sharp is the cutoff in your passes?...(?dB/octave)
Quote from: Lanson on May 11, 2014, 08:35:48 PM
Well yes I could but the SQ won't come through. It would be a recording of a system playing a recording.
It don't matter to me! I just wanna hear this beast!!!
Quote
How sharp is the cutoff in your passes?...(?dB/octave)
4th order is another way of saying 24dB/oct. crossover.
I'm utilizing these steep slopes to minimize driver interactions. This is what makes the MS-8 work the best I believe. I'm following more of Andy W's advice on that.
This is not the case on the passive crossovers, those are 2nd order (12dB/oct.) Bessell alignment (~5200hz)
Quote from: Lanson on May 12, 2014, 12:42:08 AM
Quote
How sharp is the cutoff in your passes?...(?dB/octave)
4th order is another way of saying 24dB/oct. crossover.
I'm utilizing these steep slopes to minimize driver interactions. This is what makes the MS-8 work the best I believe. I'm following more of Andy W's advice on that.
This is not the case on the passive crossovers, those are 2nd order (12dB/oct.) Bessell alignment (~5200hz)
Thanks!
Hey guys and gals, let's do an update!
So this time around, I pulled out the good camera, hopefully this will help present what's happening in these doors better than the phone camera.
Over the last few days, I've taken my time and worked on each door. I took the JBL Power 8662 6x8 coaxials that I had in the front doors before I started this (re)build), and I installed those to the rear doors with some strategic, mild deadening. I used about 2 sheets of RAAMmat per door in the rear.
The front doors were really shaking up with the bass these RS225-4 drivers can put out. This was annoying and it was screwing up the presentation. So the front doors and door panels were heavily reinforced with extra sheets as well, and I tediously went through the door's small bits that rub or vibrate together to quiet them down. I added deadener to small parts to prevent them from shaking and making noise, and added Ensolite closed-cell foam to parts to hold them tight together and reduce squeaking. I went through about 3 sheets more per door in the front.
I started with the rear doors. Now these won't be playing super-low frequencies like the front doors do, in fact the crossover point is higher than you would typically think (120Hz) and this is so the front stage absolutely anchors as dominant...and the MS-8 processor makes the rear speakers work out of phase with the front because they only play the out of phase material in the original source. If they were crossed lower, the out of phase data would destructively interfere with the in-phase data from the front speakers, and cancel out some of the output. Crossing higher than 100hz is highly recommended for a surround processed-system like the MS-8 creates.
I began by temporarily peeling back the rear door's vapor barrier
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef6782d0dea3900000030O10AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030926598.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
And I installed the deadener where the door seemed to resonate the most, after being given the "rapp" test. These are pics of both rear doors at work.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef678708baa0900000030O10AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030928844.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef6799587caa300000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030929909.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef6787489aa0900000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030931269.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef679d76f4b5a00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030935130.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
I then cut the connector off the speaker wire, and direct-connected it to the JBL external crossover box which ended up making the short stock wire a non-issue. Yay!
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef679f08a0b3400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030938818.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef67862acaa2700000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030932178.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef6788919ea7f00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030941230.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef678b505ea7d00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030933704.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Those were then installed without any issues, and the factory door panel put right back on. EASY!
I then moved on to the front doors. My son "helped"
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef679cce38a7300000030O10AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030946212.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Here's the final look of the passenger door, which is what I started with
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef67990900b1e00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030926111.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef6783aa32b3400000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523031004532.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef678150a6b1200000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523031003401.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Note the foam by the spring clip holes
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef679587a0b9000000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523031008528.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
Deadener everywhere
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef6785a96aa0100000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523031011241.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef678db036b7c00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523031012706.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
And the driver's door
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef679ccb80b1800000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030951236.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef679646f8aab00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030956496.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef679fe328abb00000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523030959056.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef679b0be0b2000000030O00AcOWjRo1btGQPbz4C/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00204754449820140523031001738.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
The front doors went back together without a hitch. Final results of this effort are positive, and the insane rattles are gone. I can't stop a few rattles, at high volume though. The darn metal belt trim all around the car makes rattling noises on certain notes when its turned way up. The rear bumper foam vibrates a bit, and the driver and passenger mirror's internal bits do too. At sane volumes none of this happens so I'm OK with this.
So what remains of this project is possibly an amp upgrade (need more channels of power and possibly more total power), and a re-covering of the pillars after I touch up the filler and such underneath. Also I'm contemplating trying a new set of pillars with an even better speaker combo, but that's just on the back-burner. I suppose also I'll need to consider upgrading my subs at some point, as they are now having a bit of difficulty keeping up. It is all a process of continual advancement and experience.
Anybody local is welcome to audition it, pretty much any time. Any constructive critiquing is welcome as well, as that's what it will take to get it to the next level. I'm damn happy with it though, and it serves as my before and after-work decompression chamber very well.
Amazing what you have done
I spent some time today and I recorded a detailed, annotated walk-through of my whole system and put it on Youtube.
This is part 1, which is mostly the walk-through
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnYlkQV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnYlkQV) ... CmHCYhnxeQ
This is part 2, the system demonstration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-O-Xo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-O-Xo) ... CmHCYhnxeQ
2013 Ford Flex audio upgrade walk-through (Part. 1 of 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnYlkQVrvs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnYlkQVrvs0)
2013 Ford Flex audio upgrade walk-through (Part 2 of 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-O-XoPVMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-O-XoPVMg)
I think any distortion that I heard was coming from the mike. The source sounded very very good, at SACD quality, even through my interpretive devices :) Are you using a lossless source?
Quote from: SHOdded on May 26, 2014, 07:32:03 AM
2013 Ford Flex audio upgrade walk-through (Part. 1 of 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnYlkQVrvs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnYlkQVrvs0)
2013 Ford Flex audio upgrade walk-through (Part 2 of 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-O-XoPVMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-O-XoPVMg)
I think any distortion that I heard was coming from the mike. The source sounded very very good, at SACD quality, even through my interpretive devices :) Are you using a lossless source?
Nah, just standard 320kbps MP3 playing there on most of that. But the NIN was a CD playing in the slot so that was lossless.
NICE!!!!
Quote from: Sneaktip on June 01, 2014, 07:33:00 PM
NICE!!!!
Thanks man, can't wait to see what you come up with