Ecoboost Performance Forum

To close several loops on my tune testing with high/low RPM launches,  14,14.5 and 15 pound boost levels i have final results for 14-pound testing.

With 14 pounds set and the data log showing 14.25 pounds on average with boost spikes,  I can say for my car and mod level 14 pounds is even faster than expected.

to re-cap: I tested 15 pounds, 14.5 pounds and now 14 pounds with ::
starting IAT2 of 90f or less at start of run
170 t-stat
170 t-stat adjust in tune
3-bar
.28 gapped plugs
92-pump gas
same part of road,  very near same weather and DA conditions.

I did a HIGH RPM-LAUNCH (2300rpm) datalog yesterday when the temps and humidity were similar to previous tests on my test road and have a new best time to 100mph and 105mph.   At the time of the run using the datalog to calculate I found I ran 11.33 seconds to 100mph and 12.57 seconds to 105mph which is 110 millisecond better to 0-100mph than the previous 14.5 pound tune from AJP.   This is outstanding for the mods,  and even better considering I had +1 knock at launch.    Were it not for the knock at launch I think the 0-70 would be better and would have a decent impact on reducing the time to 105 mph further. 

So for those with similar SHO setups.  you might consider a 14-pound test tune.  I am seeing in the last two runs spark hitting 21-peak which is kind of amazing, and very high spark averages for my 2010 on the whole run due to less heat (in my head its less turbo heat/pressure, AJP comment as needed)..

I do think though were right at the limit with launching and spark for my platform. The launch and immediate +1 knock smacks of a gas issue or just a HINT too aggressive on spark in the super low rpm band. (I need to spike the gas and retest..) 

But overall the experiments have pretty been damn good.  shes in the fastest from she can be with the current fuel\hardware.   

run.log.14.psi.csv is the run datalog for livelink.
Audit.6.9.2017.14psi.tune.chevron92.ZIP is for opening to audit in excel.

THANK YOU AJP!

One thing of note is the power is a lot less peaky now so the 'feel' of driving it is less exciting.   With the 15 pound tune stomping it threw you into the seat with the boost spike and made passengers squeak in surprise. 14-lbs is much .. 'calmer' .. :(    #1stworldproblems

Fantastic research! Thanks for all the data!

I have found with the MULTIPLE tuners and tunes that I have come to a very similar conclusion. It seems to me that right around 14psi is where these motors with the stock turbos really do well with good smack of timing. At least from a datalog standpoint...

I have also noted that the 15psi tunes really slam you back into the seat with the instant torque HOWEVER, that does not translate into faster times which you have noted as well...

Working with Brad now on my meth tune and curiously, I think the end results will be a lower boosted tune with more timing... I am at a hair over 15psi with 20psi spikes and 26 or so degrees of timing.. which is causing all kinda of traction problems..

Seems to give credence to the tuners that go lower on boost and higher on timing.

Quote from: StealBlueSho on June 09, 2017, 02:54:09 PM
Fantastic research! Thanks for all the data!

I have found with the MULTIPLE tuners and tunes that I have come to a very similar conclusion. It seems to me that right around 14psi is where these motors with the stock turbos really do well with good smack of timing. At least from a datalog standpoint...

I have also noted that the 15psi tunes really slam you back into the seat with the instant torque HOWEVER, that does not translate into faster times which you have noted as well...

Working with Brad now on my meth tune and curiously, I think the end results will be a lower boosted tune with more timing... I am at a hair over 15psi with 20psi spikes and 26 or so degrees of timing.. which is causing all kinda of traction problems..

Seems to give credence to the tuners that go lower on boost and higher on timing.

Thank you!  And I 100% agree after testing like crazy it all lines up..   Now I will wait for AJP to tell me "Told ya so ;)" and get a static meth kit.

So you're saying that 14 psi at 20 degrees is the sweet spot? I'm 16 psi and 16 degrees right now.

Quote from: FiveLeeter918 on July 07, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
So you're saying that 14 psi at 20 degrees is the sweet spot? I'm 16 psi and 16 degrees right now.

I will depend on the mods in place,.   With meth/water higher boost *may* be of benefit since you will be at a lower temp and higher octane.  However in my testing on track and off track i found for my 2010 with my limited mods 14psi::

Has a slightly slower 0-60
Has a way better 0-100
Has a marginally better 1/4 mile.
Has way better passing characteristics on the highway

Quote from: TopherSho on July 07, 2017, 07:03:01 PM

Quote from: FiveLeeter918 on July 07, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
So you're saying that 14 psi at 20 degrees is the sweet spot? I'm 16 psi and 16 degrees right now.

I will depend on the mods in place,.   With meth/water higher boost *may* be of benefit since you will be at a lower temp and higher octane.  However in my testing on track and off track i found for my 2010 with my limited mods 14psi::

Has a slightly slower 0-60
Has a way better 0-100
Has a marginally better 1/4 mile.
Has way better passing characteristics on the highway

By all means run the tune that feels best as a DD. However i feel it's hard to equate your fastest 0-60 or 0-100 times to your best 1/4 mile times. In that scenario you're comparing a time vs speed(0-100mph) measurement to a time vs distance measurement (1/4 mile).
A higher HP tune(low boost with higher timing) will get you up to speed faster and might net you better trap SPEEDS while a higher TQ tune (higher boost with lower timing) will move you a 1320' distance in less time.
If i remember right your last track outing had many changing variables. aka re-writing tunes frequently and not letting OAR get all the way settled before your passes among other things. so i'd say it's really hard to say which tune is going to net you the quickest ET unless numerous runs are taken in the most empirical fashion. even then results might vary from time to time.
But in the end you're doing right by yourself and the community by using the tune that feels best to you and sharing all the data and observations.

Quote from: TopherSho on July 07, 2017, 07:03:01 PM

Quote from: FiveLeeter918 on July 07, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
So you're saying that 14 psi at 20 degrees is the sweet spot? I'm 16 psi and 16 degrees right now.

I will depend on the mods in place,.   With meth/water higher boost *may* be of benefit since you will be at a lower temp and higher octane.  However in my testing on track and off track i found for my 2010 with my limited mods 14psi::

Has a slightly slower 0-60
Has a way better 0-100
Has a marginally better 1/4 mile.
Has way better passing characteristics on the highway

Just a theory I am pulling out of somewhere dark.....

That 14psi netted better everything but 0-60.  It could very well be the stronger and better tune.  The 0-60 could be slower because the car is loosing traction, or not able to put all the power down to the pavement..?  The 0-100 being faster backs this up a bit as once she gets rolling the extra power is making the car accelerate faster.

Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on July 08, 2017, 11:26:06 AM
By all means run the tune that feels best as a DD. However i feel it's hard to equate your fastest 0-60 or 0-100 times to your best 1/4 mile times. In that scenario you're comparing a time vs speed(0-100mph) measurement to a time vs distance measurement (1/4 mile).
A higher HP tune(low boost with higher timing) will get you up to speed faster and might net you better trap SPEEDS while a higher TQ tune (higher boost with lower timing) will move you a 1320' distance in less time.
If i remember right your last track outing had many changing variables. aka re-writing tunes frequently and not letting OAR get all the way settled before your passes among other things. so i'd say it's really hard to say which tune is going to net you the quickest ET unless numerous runs are taken in the most empirical fashion. even then results might vary from time to time.
But in the end you're doing right by yourself and the community by using the tune that feels best to you and sharing all the data and observations.

I do agree the extra TQ does make some sort of difference.  my 0-60 is a tiny bit slower.. and around town it feel less ''squirrely'' and ''rompy'' if you goose it on 14 pounds 

But after all the datalogs data logs it is clear that the 0-100 is much better on 14 pounds *in my build*.  others (like Brad) call it more efficient, and i think its all about the heat.. pushing the OEM turbos to 15 pounds felt great around town,  but under hard WoT it dropped the 0-100,   i think its temp related when pushed hard for longer periods of time with little cooldown time.

Since we all hit 100 in the 1/4 it is a gain on times to have my 0-100 drop as much as it did even with the light loss of 0-60..

everybody's car will be different though.  Now that i am on METH (after today) it may be time to revisit Brads 15 pound tune :) and test again. 

Quote from: lamrith on July 08, 2017, 12:00:00 PM

Quote from: TopherSho on July 07, 2017, 07:03:01 PM

Quote from: FiveLeeter918 on July 07, 2017, 03:34:57 PM
So you're saying that 14 psi at 20 degrees is the sweet spot? I'm 16 psi and 16 degrees right now.

I will depend on the mods in place,.   With meth/water higher boost *may* be of benefit since you will be at a lower temp and higher octane.  However in my testing on track and off track i found for my 2010 with my limited mods 14psi::

Has a slightly slower 0-60
Has a way better 0-100
Has a marginally better 1/4 mile.
Has way better passing characteristics on the highway

Just a theory I am pulling out of somewhere dark.....

That 14psi netted better everything but 0-60.  It could very well be the stronger and better tune.  The 0-60 could be slower because the car is loosing traction, or not able to put all the power down to the pavement..?  The 0-100 being faster backs this up a bit as once she gets rolling the extra power is making the car accelerate faster.

Na, no traction issues so far.  I the drop in 0-60 is a lower boost spike, and lower boost levels on the 1-2 shift.  But it makes it up with less heat in the 2nd gear pull and most of the third gear pull.  After 3rd the heat is climbing on the oem CaC and OEM turbos ..

Looking at your multi vs my most recent it looks like I need about 3.41ish/s to get through third and you are around 5.6ish/s.

Maybe someone with better SCT skills can check my math? I measured from the first uptick after the shift to third and the highest rpm before rpms dropped up top.

IIRC my time dropped from 3.76ish going from 15-15.5 from the last time I compared IIRC.

Apples to plums comparison cause of the E45, big spark, gearing, etc but an interesting comparison and I know how you like data, lol. Also might give you an idea what to expect with meth as SBS is at very similar spark and boost.

Hopefully SBS will check his latest logs and post his findings...

Interesting thread...

sigh.. I cant get under 13.2 now.  Tune is the same as the ''last best of 12.5x to 105 mph'' ..  yet now I run 13.2,  all i can think is the heat is the issue and reducing air density even with 15/85 spray.

I had hopped water and tiny bit of meth would push me over but at this time i am giving up on 12's ..

Quote from: TopherSho on July 15, 2017, 11:38:46 PM
sigh.. I cant get under 13.2 now.  Tune is the same as the ''last best of 12.5x to 105 mph'' ..  yet now I run 13.2,  all i can think is the heat is the issue and reducing air density even with 15/85 spray.

I had hopped water and tiny bit of meth would push me over but at this time i am giving up on 12's ..

I think what you're finding is that time to speed doesn't equal time to distance. As Col-SHOBro pointed out there is quite a difference between the two especially when comparing track times to street logs. I have numerous strip passes where I blew the launch but ran a faster trap speed than quicker runs with slower speeds. Even changing how you stage in the lights could make a tenth+ difference in the time let alone boost at launch, track prep, weather etc. Try to keep detailed info about your track passes and try changing things one at a time until you figure out what works best for your car. For my quickest ET's I shallow stage and brake boost until I feel the brakes just starting to lose the fight against the torque then mash the throttle n go.

Yeah you may be right.  But I can't help but think 100 and 105 times even in testing are critical.  Everyone here runs 100 in the 1/4 so i my head the best 100 time off track would be equally as good on the track??

At this point I will take any advise. 

I do have to be carefully at launch I have found I can brake boost to 3300 rpm.. and then launch it is scary as ####.. the wheel hop is SO BAD it disengages the front drive and only powers the back enough to get off the track.  (No error codes) ..

I plan on racing in the furnace again (PIR) to test the effectiveness of the 15/85 spray .. I have a feeling water is not my soultion and I wasted time and money ..

I just do not know why she won't run a 12 of any kind..

3300 rpm?  Wow.  I thought 2500 rpm was pretty much the max for stock bb launches.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 16, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
3300 rpm?  Wow.  I thought 2500 rpm was pretty much the max for stock bb launches.

given my thin air here i've found 2300rpm is a sweet spot for me. . . or at least that gives me the best 0-60 time. i mainly watch my MAP # on the x4 when launching and raise rpm til its at ~3lbs of boost


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Quote from: SHOdded on July 16, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
3300 rpm?  Wow.  I thought 2500 rpm was pretty much the max for stock bb launches.

It was by pure accident, I was boosted to 2300 and foot suck on my old mat for a second .. it made horrificly bad noises and wheel hop.

Don't do it.

BUT! brakes held just fine 😅

Gotcha.

Quote from: TopherSho on July 16, 2017, 06:21:45 PM
Yeah you may be right.  But I can't help but think 100 and 105 times even in testing are critical.  Everyone here runs 100 in the 1/4 so i my head the best 100 time off track would be equally as good on the track??

At this point I will take any advise. 

I do have to be carefully at launch I have found I can brake boost to 3300 rpm.. and then launch it is scary as ####.. the wheel hop is SO BAD it disengages the front drive and only powers the back enough to get off the track.  (No error codes) ..

I plan on racing in the furnace again (PIR) to test the effectiveness of the 15/85 spray .. I have a feeling water is not my soultion and I wasted time and money ..

I just do not know why she won't run a 12 of any kind..

last log before running the tack this Friday with my new water injection. I do not think it is helping despite the spark being in the low 20's in high rpm .. i have gained a bunch of spark but it just is not moving the car. 

I think that's it. This car cannot do any kind of 12 on pump gas despite all the right boxes being checked.  good launch, good tires, no spin upshift, high spark for pump gas.. bummed a bit. 

i will still race it friday to see how the water/meth deals with lane and line up heat which was a major reason for buying it.  with a previous 13.09 i had hoped water would get me in the high 12's by negating the boost heat build up but it appears that is not the case. 

Quote from: TopherSho on July 16, 2017, 09:33:29 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 16, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
3300 rpm?  Wow.  I thought 2500 rpm was pretty much the max for stock bb launches.

It was by pure accident, I was boosted to 2300 and foot suck on my old mat for a second .. it made horrificly bad noises and wheel hop.

Don't do it.

BUT! brakes held just fine 😅

If I flash anything higher than around 2400 mine will save itself, dump boost and close the TB.

Quote from: Vortech347 on July 20, 2017, 07:00:41 PM

Quote from: TopherSho on July 16, 2017, 09:33:29 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 16, 2017, 06:52:38 PM
3300 rpm?  Wow.  I thought 2500 rpm was pretty much the max for stock bb launches.

It was by pure accident, I was boosted to 2300 and foot suck on my old mat for a second .. it made horrificly bad noises and wheel hop.

Don't do it.

BUT! brakes held just fine

If I flash anything higher than around 2400 mine will save itself, dump boost and close the TB.

Yeah I have had this happen, just goes limp when you leave the line...


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I think your air is hurting your times a LOT. My SHO on straight 93 ran a best of 12.87 with CAI, weld-in mufflers, and an Airaid. Temp was mid -high 50s and it was an evening run with a reasonable DA.

Quote from: derfdog15 on July 21, 2017, 10:33:17 AM
I think your air is hurting your times a LOT. My SHO on straight 93 ran a best of 12.87 with CAI, weld-in mufflers, and an Airaid. Temp was mid -high 50s and it was an evening run with a reasonable DA.

Yeah.. i know if i drop in new DP,s and catback it will fix it,  but my warranty still has 3 more years on it and it covers exhaust as well as turbos and extra bits.   When i am under 2 years warranty i will probably go big and do the pipes, full exhaust and a meth kit tune.

Quote from: TopherSho on July 21, 2017, 11:19:42 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on July 21, 2017, 10:33:17 AM
I think your air is hurting your times a LOT. My SHO on straight 93 ran a best of 12.87 with CAI, weld-in mufflers, and an Airaid. Temp was mid -high 50s and it was an evening run with a reasonable DA.

Yeah.. i know if i drop in new DP,s and catback it will fix it,  but my warranty still has 3 more years on it and it covers exhaust as well as turbos and extra bits.   When i am under 2 years warranty i will probably go big and do the pipes, full exhaust and a meth kit tune.

You don't need downpipes and catback to go fast...I think derf was referring to your altitude maybe.


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Hmm I'm almost sea level..

Quote from: TopherSho on July 21, 2017, 01:23:03 PM
Hmm I'm almost sea level..

Dunno then, I'm almost sea level also.. 12.9 with just 93 tune filter and 3bar


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Quote from: f8tlSHO on July 21, 2017, 01:43:06 PM

Quote from: TopherSho on July 21, 2017, 01:23:03 PM
Hmm I'm almost sea level..

Dunno then, I'm almost sea level also.. 12.9 with just 93 tune filter and 3bar


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Yeah i am out of ideas as well on this.  All i can think now is my 20's are a issue with rotation mass on launch,  and I lose a lot more HP at the tail end of my dyno than other people do. 

well see tonight what 85% water does in regards to keeping spark up.   I am not expecting much to be honest.  well see though.  I don't want to go meth tune .. but i might..

Running 13.4x at Woodburn today.

Temp of box asphalt is 140f,.  Lanes are 110

IAT sensor is only recoding a 40f.  Drop from 160f

I have to drill and tap my intake .. since snow mentioned 6" from IAT to get it wet that's my only option as next nozzle is to big

Slips and a log later

Using temp gun iat2 housing is 175+ f

Quote from: TopherSho on July 21, 2017, 10:13:22 PM
Running 13.4x at Woodburn today.

Temp of box asphalt is 140f,.  Lanes are 110

IAT sensor is only recoding a 40f.  Drop from 160f

I have to drill and tap my intake .. since snow mentioned 6" from IAT to get it wet that's my only option as next nozzle is to big

Slips and a log later

Your mission should not be to get the MAP/IAT2 sensor "wet"....I wouldn't drill anything into the intake manifold...Just not necessary..I would put the nozzle in the inlet pipe just before the throttle body like most people do...You want to cool the air not get any sensor "wet"..When the mix gets cooled the IAT2 sensor will see it and spark compensations will be applied.

Without the Meth "tune" you are only going to get a little extra spark from what the IAT comps are giving you back...The tuning would add some spark to the base spark tables and take advantage of any boost in octane from the meth that is in your washer fluid

No one has needed to drill into their manifold for meth... unless you are doing direct injection....

I spray right before the throttle body... like most do...

Could see if brad is willing to ease up a hair on the IAT comps...


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Also think about adding a second nozzle a little bit further away so the water has more time to mix with the air. Unfortunately the plastic pipe near the throttle body is fairly small. another idea would be to have a couple solenoids to purge or recirculate fluid so you can put ice in that tank.

Thanks guys, i totally get what you are saying.  I am plugged in about 4 inches back from where most are plugging in.  I have a bung in a collar that we spliced into the rubber hotpipe... i wonder if it is too far away. (picture later... tired)

Snow was very specific that the IAT2 was to get damp.. but not soaked.  so i am confused a bit as their install guide was very specific to be before the throttle blade. And also wondering if 4 additional inches makes that much of a difference ??  /shrug/  I was avoiding the need to replace the plastic portion of the hoptpipe but it may be i need to after all.

Water injection WAS doing a good deal of the intended work, I was beating out cars above my weight class because they were running much hotter.  I could see it drop from 160 to 120 about 50% into the run. 

I was expecting a greater drop sooner i guess..

Log. 

it does show the IAT dropping from 150 to 112.  So i get my spark back.. But it is much to late to be of serious benefit i think.  the initial spark at launch is what killed my times a bit i think.

this pretty much settles it.

I need to either get a CFN card and pump my own fuel for e30 and use the kit for temps.  or go balls deep into a meth tune.

i hate to spend the $$ on the kit and not tune for it but i am terrified of a pump failure taking out the pistons/rods/crank with massive pre-ignition.    in my head the e30 tune is a safer deal... ??

thoughts???

I do think tonight was a success.  i beat out some decent rigs,  amg c55, modded sti's, 2 g8's, RT challengers, the water was helping, but i think it is not ideal. yet.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/28h0goo.jpg)

(http://i68.tinypic.com/14kffrk.jpg)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/wmlck.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/f9jwoj.jpg)

Here is where the bung is located... Bad? OK? good? cheese?

I personally like it in front of the noise maker... that has to disrupt the airflow in order to make the noise... which means meth is probably getting sucked into it...


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I think you are fine....No need to tap your mani...You are a bit further downstream than most but I don't think it's bad because that probably gives it time to mix more evenly in the air charge.

Outside of e30 or tuning the meth or hardware am I at my limit? 

Quote from: AJP turbo on July 22, 2017, 03:13:18 PM
I think you are fine....No need to tap your mani...You are a bit further downstream than most but I don't think it's bad because that probably gives it time to mix more evenly in the air charge.

I would be worried about loosing effectiveness due to the noisemaker... it's a big hollow piece of plastic made for air to travel through to make noise... I bet you take off the noisemaker after a pull and it's wet... through and through.


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 06:27:20 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on July 22, 2017, 03:13:18 PM
I think you are fine....No need to tap your mani...You are a bit further downstream than most but I don't think it's bad because that probably gives it time to mix more evenly in the air charge.

I would be worried about loosing effectiveness due to the noisemaker... it's a big hollow piece of plastic made for air to travel through to make noise... I bet you take off the noisemaker after a pull and it's wet... through and through.


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hmm i bet it is.  what is the point of it?  Cant i seal it ?

Just put a plug in place of that noisemaker.  $3.99 @ Orielly's.  There are links on the forum for the part you need.

That said you really just need to bite the bullet and get a meth tune, I know you don't want to, but peace of mind and realistically it is the only next step.  Doing any other installs would be a waste of $.  Your meth kit is working, you are down to 112* that is huge from where you started.  Congrats btw, seriously, your setup is working well.  Only way to get better is tune for the added octane and cooling. I view it sort of like adding high perf air filter and colder plugs without doing tune.  you just won't see much benefit without the tune.  Talk to Brad, he will get you dialed in.

If I were in your shoes I would get a tune made for your racedays.  Have it setup so you start to spray much earlier.  IE when you are brake boosting @ 3psi.  Load the tune before you head to the track, and play around a bit on the way, pretty easy to get over 3psi boost on street, let the tune and OAR settle in on the drive, then HAVE FUN!

Quote from: lamrith on July 22, 2017, 07:47:47 PM
Just put a plug in place of that noisemaker.  $3.99 @ Orielly's.  There are links on the forum for the part you need.

That said you really just need to bite the bullet and get a meth tune, I know you don't want to, but peace of mind and realistically it is the only next step.  Doing any other installs would be a waste of $.  Your meth kit is working, you are down to 112* that is huge from where you started.  Congrats btw, seriously, your setup is working well.  Only way to get better is tune for the added octane and cooling. I view it sort of like adding high perf air filter and colder plugs without doing tune.  you just won't see much benefit without the tune.  Talk to Brad, he will get you dialed in.

If I were in your shoes I would get a tune made for your racedays.  Have it setup so you start to spray much earlier.  IE when you are brake boosting @ 3psi.  Load the tune before you head to the track, and play around a bit on the way, pretty easy to get over 3psi boost on street, let the tune and OAR settle in on the drive, then HAVE FUN!

I would not have it spray while break boosting... you stall out your engine... 5psi start MAYBE...


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 08:00:54 PM

Quote from: lamrith on July 22, 2017, 07:47:47 PM
Just put a plug in place of that noisemaker.  $3.99 @ Orielly's.  There are links on the forum for the part you need.

That said you really just need to bite the bullet and get a meth tune, I know you don't want to, but peace of mind and realistically it is the only next step.  Doing any other installs would be a waste of $.  Your meth kit is working, you are down to 112* that is huge from where you started.  Congrats btw, seriously, your setup is working well.  Only way to get better is tune for the added octane and cooling. I view it sort of like adding high perf air filter and colder plugs without doing tune.  you just won't see much benefit without the tune.  Talk to Brad, he will get you dialed in.

If I were in your shoes I would get a tune made for your racedays.  Have it setup so you start to spray much earlier.  IE when you are brake boosting @ 3psi.  Load the tune before you head to the track, and play around a bit on the way, pretty easy to get over 3psi boost on street, let the tune and OAR settle in on the drive, then HAVE FUN!

I would not have it spray while break boosting... you stall out your engine... 5psi start MAYBE...


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good point.

When the meth starts spraying your ECU takes a split second to compensate which will cause you run rich for moment... so starting spray I believe is a balancing act.. you want enough air moving through the engine to carry the extra fuel via meth without bogging out... I start my spray around 6 psi and it's progressive... a small amount at first but sprays more as the boost increases...

Works well for me... if I park my car.. start it 30 minutes later my IATs are 170ish... a quick sprint in second gear with meth instantly drops it 40+ degrees without pushing it...

either move your nozzle to a spot after the noisemaker or plug it. You will see a difference I believe...

During a full 3 gear pull I will often times drop below ambient temps...


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It's not possible for temps to drop under ambient unless your juice is colder than ambient.

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 08:51:48 PM
It's not possible for temps to drop under ambient unless your juice is colder than ambient.

Sure... ever dipped your finger in alcohol? And then blown on it? Let me find a log for you...


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 09:13:33 PM

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 08:51:48 PM
It's not possible for temps to drop under ambient unless your juice is colder than ambient.

Sure... ever dipped your finger in alcohol? And then blown on it? Let me find a log for you...


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Ahh i forget your running 100% meth

And humidity must be low where your at. cycling my memory through airconditioning and wetbulb temperature. Still not consistent, I'm getting a max cooling of 10 over ambient and i have 70% water which allows me to cool much more volume of air but since alcohol evaporates quicker you can get colder than me. you still must be spraying a boatload or meth lol.

Topher sho should try pure meth or denatured alcohol. might get him those low temps hes after.

Enough to cool, prevent knock, and never worry about fuel pressure... a metric crap load.


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 09:42:22 PM
Enough to cool, prevent knock, and never worry about fuel pressure... a metric crap load.


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as additional fuel, my windshield washer fluid is enough and in still only spraying 7 gph to your 15 nozzle so half.

OK, guys... Thank you everyone.    It is clear my performance is being limited a bit more than others and just bums me out.  it what it is.

I was wanted to avoid a meth tune but I am not going to be satisfied until I get my @#$&ing 12's.

Sooo... Brad.  I will throw some money at you later next week.  I have a trip out of town so no work this weekend. 

Since I have the meth kit we will do a meth tune.  It is NOT a progressive spray though... I hate to waste the kit so we will tune for it.    I will get you a sample of logs so you can see in advance where the spray is kicking on.  I think it's Bout 6-7 pounds based on observation.

Maybe later well do a e30 update after that ..

Jebus.. slippery slope meet beecker... /Plunge/

its very safe imo . knock sensors can pull out 10 degrees.

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 09:32:02 PM
Topher sho should try pure meth or denatured alcohol. might get him those low temps hes after.

the 140f flash-point concerns me.  I do not think i can run pure meth...

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 09:53:06 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 09:42:22 PM
Enough to cool, prevent knock, and never worry about fuel pressure... a metric crap load.


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as additional fuel, my windshield washer fluid is enough and in still only spraying 7 gph to your 15 nozzle so half.

Fair... But since I don't have 8 years of experience deploying meth on these motors, I trust that those who do have worked out a good solution.


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 11:03:45 PM

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 09:53:06 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 09:42:22 PM
Enough to cool, prevent knock, and never worry about fuel pressure... a metric crap load.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

as additional fuel, my windshield washer fluid is enough and in still only spraying 7 gph to your 15 nozzle so half.

Fair... But since I don't have 8 years of experience deploying meth on these motors, I trust that those who do have worked out a good solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I trusted them for a while and then they horribly failed resulting in the longest troubleshooting thread on this forum but I digress. Its not rocket science, there is nothing to develop minus controller logic which you know how I feel about that already. We all have the same goal with different approaches which is great! All of my approaches are daily driver focused. I'll get some dyno results too. Just saying darn washer fluid is performing better than expected. AJP is adjusting shift pressures because of the power I'm making. Plus is tremendously satisfying when something you fab up yourself works great :).

Quote from: polskifacet on July 24, 2017, 10:47:28 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 11:03:45 PM

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 09:53:06 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 09:42:22 PM
Enough to cool, prevent knock, and never worry about fuel pressure... a metric crap load.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

as additional fuel, my windshield washer fluid is enough and in still only spraying 7 gph to your 15 nozzle so half.

Fair... But since I don't have 8 years of experience deploying meth on these motors, I trust that those who do have worked out a good solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I trusted them for a while and then they horribly failed resulting in the longest troubleshooting thread on this forum but I digress. Its not rocket science, there is nothing to develop minus controller logic which you know how I feel about that already. We all have the same goal with different approaches which is great! All of my approaches are daily driver focused. I'll get some dyno results too. Just saying darn washer fluid is performing better than expected. AJP is adjusting shift pressures because of the power I'm making. Plus is tremendously satisfying when something you fab up yourself works great :).

I 100% agree with everything you just said. Glad to see your continued success!


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 06:27:20 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on July 22, 2017, 03:13:18 PM
I think you are fine....No need to tap your mani...You are a bit further downstream than most but I don't think it's bad because that probably gives it time to mix more evenly in the air charge.

I would be worried about loosing effectiveness due to the noisemaker... it's a big hollow piece of plastic made for air to travel through to make noise... I bet you take off the noisemaker after a pull and it's wet... through and through.


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Why do you keep making me spend money ... :)

Quote from: TopherSho on July 25, 2017, 04:04:18 PM
Why do you keep making me spend money ... :)

All you need is a plug $4.
(http://polskifacet.dynu.com:55698/uploader/uploads/Pictures/SHO/NoiseMaker/expansionplug.jpg)

When the forum decides to display that pic i will take a look!

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/dorman-help--4422/hardware---fasteners-16585/expansion-freeze-plug---universal-17585/rubber-expansion-plug/02602/4526792 (https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/dorman-help--4422/hardware---fasteners-16585/expansion-freeze-plug---universal-17585/rubber-expansion-plug/02602/4526792)

That is exactly the part I used.

Topher if it makes you feel better I never broke 12's even with downpipes. The meth got me running 12.5. That was with tunes from unleashed and bcb. In currently working with brad on a meth tune and am liking where it is going. Too hot to track it right now for trying to run a number anyway. You really should look at what the shos in your area are running as opposed to the internet. I thought I was a turd until I was 3 tenths faster than a guy with similar mods. Track conditions and weather make a huge difference.

yeah ... I get it ... Still want them :)

Quote from: lamrith on July 25, 2017, 05:35:20 PM
That is exactly the part I used.

?  install guide ? or just cram it in there and heat will make it fill in the gaps ?

Quote from: TopherSho on July 26, 2017, 09:52:19 AM

Quote from: lamrith on July 25, 2017, 05:35:20 PM
That is exactly the part I used.

?  install guide ? or just cram it in there and heat will make it fill in the gaps ?

What do you think that nut is there for lol "expansion plug".

Hey be nice :) ...  it is early in the morning and i have not had alot of  Mt.Dew yet.  ok i get it now ;) I have not used one before.

Quote from: TopherSho on July 26, 2017, 11:03:55 AM
Hey be nice :) ...  it is early in the morning and i have not had alot of  Mt.Dew yet.  ok i get it now ;) I have not used one before.

You set it up for me :p. Don't go crazy on tightening it because I bet you can crack the plastic. It just has to be nice and snug in there.

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 09:13:33 PM

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 08:51:48 PM
It's not possible for temps to drop under ambient unless your juice is colder than ambient.

Sure... ever dipped your finger in alcohol? And then blown on it? Let me find a log for you...


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With my 70% meth test I can attest to better cooling than 70% water..  SCT did not log my lunch run though .. damn handheld.  will have to re-log later IF i can .. my test road is being used by harvesters currently.

Quote from: TopherSho on July 28, 2017, 03:45:19 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 09:13:33 PM

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 08:51:48 PM
It's not possible for temps to drop under ambient unless your juice is colder than ambient.

Sure... ever dipped your finger in alcohol? And then blown on it? Let me find a log for you...


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With my 70% meth test I can attest to better cooling than 70% water..  SCT did not log my lunch run though .. damn handheld.  will have to re-log later IF i can .. my test road is being used by harvesters currently.

Damn farmers making that food to eat or ethanol for my race fuel!!! Lol


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Quote from: f8tlSHO on July 28, 2017, 04:51:37 PM

Quote from: TopherSho on July 28, 2017, 03:45:19 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 22, 2017, 09:13:33 PM

Quote from: polskifacet on July 22, 2017, 08:51:48 PM
It's not possible for temps to drop under ambient unless your juice is colder than ambient.

Sure... ever dipped your finger in alcohol? And then blown on it? Let me find a log for you...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With my 70% meth test I can attest to better cooling than 70% water..  SCT did not log my lunch run though .. damn handheld.  will have to re-log later IF i can .. my test road is being used by harvesters currently.

Damn farmers making that food to eat or ethanol for my race fuel!!! Lol


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Food ... Phehhh .... I live on 0-100 times ...