OK:
So i purchased a Power Stop Brake kit, and after about 4000 Miles and 1 Track Day
Here are the Results: I wasted the Front Rotors and Pads after 10 Laps (at Mid Ohio)
Ran off the BIG back strait at about 70 MPH after 120 Plus, Because the petal went to the Floor
Did a bit of lawn mowing, and the car came out OK, Needless to say, I needed a change in underware
So the instructor laffed it off, PUT me in his race prepped 944, told me i did not need any brakes and
LATER i did 20 more laps, till i almost collected a few more cars in the rear at the same strait, I WAS DONE
After the 80-100 MPH Flog home and a couple more miles, I heard the dreaded Grinding, Here is what was Left:
My mechanic and his Mech Buddies Say:
"Worst they have ever seen"
Notice the Even Rotor Discoloration
Any One Need a Test Driver to destroy Anything or Everything.....?
Jim T
I would agree. At best for some serious street use, maybe 1/4 runs. Definitely not for the track.
Yea:
I did not do any research, Just got it done, and the result was i almost waded
it up.... Looking at the EBC Stage 4 as the next upgrade, that will hold me till 2016
Jim
Quote from: irondoor19 on June 17, 2015, 02:27:47 PM
Yea:
I did not do any research, Just got it done, and the result was i almost waded
it up.... Looking at the EBC Stage 4 as the next upgrade, that will hold me till 2016
Jim
I have the Stage 4 EBC brakes. They get even better when hot.
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Holy crap!! I was totally going to do PowerStop + z17 brakes... I'm thinking twice now....
O.o
WOW
I've got the stage 4 kit, so far no issues. But i haven't taken her to a track yet....
I don't track my car, though I would love to... But I am loving the Powerstop Kit for street driving. Night and day compared to the OEM!
I put on a set of Powerstop Z23 Evolution Sport carbon fiber-ceramic pads with drilled and slotted rotors a few months ago. Generally easy street driving. I've been happy with performance but am now noticing a little more brake noise (more like a whirring) than stock. My thought was it might be the slots and holes but I guess if it doesn't get worse I'd say the trade off of slight noise for extra stopping power was worth it.
Remember we are trying to stop a 4200-4400lb pig. I just changed my stock pads and rotors and was surprised how fried they were, and I only did 1/4 mile runs. Mike (BPD) spent the money and did a Wilwood brake upgrade. I think that is the actual and only way to go it you want to road course these cars. I'm pretty sure he has 15 in rotors upfront now with 6 piston calipers adn '13+ brake booster and master cylinder retro fit.
"EBC Stage 4 Kit on the way for the front",
Will NOT Do any track days, until we test @ 1/4 Mile
yikes that was close, Yes it is a Big Fat Pig
Quote from: bamsho on June 18, 2015, 02:28:56 AMMike (BPD) spent the money and did a Wilwood brake upgrade. I think that is the actual and only way to go it you want to road course these cars. I'm pretty sure he has 15in. rotors upfront now, with 6 piston calipers and '13+ brake booster and master cylinder retro fit.
All correct info, 'cept for the 6 piston calipers.
Wilwood only makes them in a 4 piston setup for both the front and rear for the SHO.
I did upgrade to the "Poly Matrix E" Race Pad(s), as well as the "Titanium Heat Shields".
The 15" cross drilled and slotted rotor was a new (& recent) upgrade being offered, which increases the rotor size and thickness, versus the standard 14.25" offering.
I plan on doing this exact same set up on the rear, most likely purchasing middle of (this) August, and installing by end of August assuming a 2 week turn around on assembly and shipping.
Next to the newly built race motor, and then the tuning to go along with it, this Wilwood Big Brake Upgrade is among my Top 3 "Must Have's".
honestly i think the brake held up very well.. 10 laps plus your normal driving. YES the rotors got hot, but the holes don't appear to be cracked out you didn't mention warped pulsing brake feel? 10 laps on STREET pads with our big fast heavy car.. Im actually impressed.
though if your wipping out brakes on the 944 im thinking some change of driving might need to be in order or shorter stints to let things cool off between run.
Didnt the car talk back to you give you some hint the brake where going?
If you DD your car and only do 1/4 runs i think for the price these seem to be a good deal. For actual track day i would at least get EBC or project Mu pads and decent rotor. If you these rotor felt ok still there price would make them good track day use still.
I have purposly destoryed brakes before it takes a lot of heat. I mean making them glowing RED hot heat. which looks really cool at night btw.
Quote from: panther427 on June 18, 2015, 11:36:25 PM
I have purposly destoryed brakes before it takes a lot of heat. I mean making them glowing RED hot heat. which looks really cool at night btw.
LOL
Sounds like you had fun except for the burned up pads and most likely boiled brake fluid in your calipers contributing to your pedal to the floor experience.
Agree with Panther427, rotors don't look too bad and as long as they are not cracking or warped they held up pretty well.
Before you do another track day I would see if you can find a better "track"pad that can take the heat, flush your brake fluid and replace with a fluid with a higher boiling point. Additionally you can look into making brake cooling ducts to help cool them down.
Yes:
We did a full Flush with Motul RBF 600, the week before i went to the track
The only Notice i got was when the Petal went to the Floor on lap 10....And i was mowing Grass
and afterword the other guy(s) on the track behind me said they Could smell the pads cooking
Ha..
Quote from: 66 Galaxie on June 19, 2015, 09:20:41 AM
Sounds like you had fun except for the burned up pads and most likely boiled brake fluid in your calipers contributing to your pedal to the floor experience.
This was my initial thought. But, Motul 600 is good stuff. 600 degree boiling point!
Wowzers, such a gargantuan car really is a burden on brake systems, when stretched to the limits.
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Mogul 600 is good stuff but IIRC it does age on the quicker side.. How old was it?
I have done track days on my race bike at Mid-O and stabbing the binders off that long back straight from 150mph+ on a race bike can be hairy. But doing it in a SHO...I'd need to change my panties and have my entire interior professionally cleaned if that happened to me.
Be grateful you only did a little grass mowing instead of some major landscaping. :D "China beach" as it's referred to at the bottom of the end on that straight can swallow up cars whole. If you're ever been to Mid-O you know what I'm talkin' about, there's a hell of a drop off.
I realize I'm a newb and my 2ยข holds very little credence, however, I'd tend to agree with Panther. Also, those pads are destructive, yes, but they are NO WHERE near as bad as I've seen after some very hot HPDE laps and lesser pads. "Worst I've ever seen"???? I'm a simple shade tree mechanic for friends and family (and friends of both) and I've seen pad BACKS worn near paper thin. Image below, just for reference, on some "bad" pad wear from a Lemons race. (Not mine)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4Ztkh3Dd3ZM/T8SRrcm9cBI/AAAAAAAAATQ/r8DKMJ9T9fY/s1600/IMG_1809.JPG)
I have an ecoboost explorer and burned through all powerstop stop tech etc currently running ebc stage 9 and orange stuff pads stops very well i roasted 4 sets of front rotors in 50k miles
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Orange Stuff will be going on my Edge next, glad to hear they perform!
I've had good success with EBC slotted rotors on other cars. I need to give them a try since I'm about done trying things with my Lincoln.
I'm running PP calipers and police spec rotors and pads now. They still suck! A handful of turns with the stability control working it's butt off and my brakes just fade away. Running ATE brake fluid and being as gentle as I can, but the mountains just turn my brakes into mush.
I wouldn't even notice that the brakes are inadequate if I still lived in FL, but the mountains are like a race track except it's every day/all day. Had about 10 vehicles since living here and this one has the most ability to outperform it's braking ability.
Quote from: sholxgt on October 13, 2017, 10:42:49 PM
I've had good success with EBC slotted rotors on other cars. I need to give them a try since I'm about done trying things with my Lincoln.
I'm running PP calipers and police spec rotors and pads now. They still suck! A handful of turns with the stability control working it's butt off and my brakes just fade away. Running ATE brake fluid and being as gentle as I can, but the mountains just turn my brakes into mush.
I wouldn't even notice that the brakes are inadequate if I still lived in FL, but the mountains are like a race track except it's every day/all day. Had about 10 vehicles since living here and this one has the most ability to outperform it's braking ability.
Check out Carbotech pads. They have multiple compounds for different uses. Call them and talk about what you're doing to find the best compound.
Call TCE Brakes and buy the Wilwood setup :)
TCE/Wilwood woud be a great setup, not sure they have parts available anymore. BUT worth talking w/ Todd regardless. Also consulting with Carbotech.
I had and loved Carbotech pads on another car, but I think my problem is heat. My brakes work great until they don't.
Thinking about EBC slotted rotors maybe? They make more noise, but thinking they may offer some help in the heat/pad glazing area.
Wilwood makes some great stuff, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on this car. There's just too many things about this car that isn't quite right. Mine is the typical Ford with 90% done right and 10% done way wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like the car. I just don't see my owning it past warranty.
Quote from: sholxgt on October 14, 2017, 10:14:15 AM
I had and loved Carbotech pads on another car, but I think my problem is heat. My brakes work great until they don't.
Thinking about EBC slotted rotors maybe? They make more noise, but thinking they may offer some help in the heat/pad glazing area.
Wilwood makes some great stuff, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on this car. There's just too many things about this car that isn't quite right. Mine is the typical Ford with 90% done right and 10% done way wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like the car. I just don't see my owning it past warranty.
QuoteMine is the typical Ford with 90% done right and 10% done way wrong.
Do tell....
Quote from: sholxgt on October 14, 2017, 10:14:15 AM
There's just too many things about this car that isn't quite right. Mine is the typical Ford with 90% done right and 10% done way wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like the car. I just don't see my owning it past warranty.
My biggest complaint is the seating position. The pedals are WAAAYYY too close, even when adjusted back as far as they go. If I move the seat to where my legs are comfy, then I can't reach the touch screen without leaning forward. If I move the seat up to where I hold the wheel properly, then my knees are hitting the steering column. If the pedals had about 3-4 more inches of travel it would be perfect.
Other nit picks. I can't see fuel economy and tachometer at the same time... Who does that? Some body panels don't line up perfectly. It's not crazy bad, but enough to notice. OFFSET BABY SEAT HOOKS. Why Ford, Why... Why does the baby seat, sit about 1/3 of the way into the middle rear seat, lol.
Other than that, I really love the car. It's big, it's comfy, it's got TONS of great features, and it's easy to make it fast. So I think you're about 100% correct. The car is 90% great and 10% "wtf were you thinking, Ford?"
Stop messing with the 2010-2012 brakes. Switch to the 2013+ brake setup or go with the Wilwoods from TCE. Spending over $600 on a brake setup designed for a car that is 1000lbs lighter is a waste. Look at every other vehicle in the same weight and relative performance category and none of them run under a 14" rotor. We get close with the 13.8" and 13.5" in the updated models. Bolts right on with the exception of the master cylinder needs the forward line bent a little.
Getting 10 hot laps (I assume they were fast) at a very fast track with an undersized street braking system is actually pretty good. There's many guys with the OEM Brembo braked GM and Mopar cars that barely get that.
If there was not an affordable and easy option, I would say go for the EBCs or whatever rotors/pads people are recommending. With the larger rotors and calipers (pads are larger too) of the redesign in 2013, there is no reason to stay with the earlier stuff unless you are satisfied with the braking.
Quote from: Agentlongwood on December 14, 2017, 10:15:28 AM
Quote from: sholxgt on October 14, 2017, 10:14:15 AM
There's just too many things about this car that isn't quite right. Mine is the typical Ford with 90% done right and 10% done way wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like the car. I just don't see my owning it past warranty.
My biggest complaint is the seating position. The pedals are WAAAYYY too close, even when adjusted back as far as they go. If I move the seat to where my legs are comfy, then I can't reach the touch screen without leaning forward. If I move the seat up to where I hold the wheel properly, then my knees are hitting the steering column. If the pedals had about 3-4 more inches of travel it would be perfect.
Other nit picks. I can't see fuel economy and tachometer at the same time... Who does that? Some body panels don't line up perfectly. It's not crazy bad, but enough to notice. OFFSET BABY SEAT HOOKS. Why Ford, Why... Why does the baby seat, sit about 1/3 of the way into the middle rear seat, lol.
Other than that, I really love the car. It's big, it's comfy, it's got TONS of great features, and it's easy to make it fast. So I think you're about 100% correct. The car is 90% great and 10% "wtf were you thinking, Ford?"
I typically have the rear of my seat cranked all the way forward to a very upright seating position in all my vehicles so it's not as much of an issue for me but yeah, I agree they could be pushed forward a bit more along with the left foot rest that's too far back. I had a guy that I used to work with that built street rods comment on how well VW did with the seams and gaps between their body panels on my 2012 Jetta TDI. Now I try to take notice of that on different cars myself. After he told me that I noticed how terrible they were on my wifes old 2012 Traverse. And as soon as me and the wife got Tauruses I noticed they're even worse yet. Terrible job on that IMO. The wife has a 2014 and I bought an older model on purpose because I like the interior much better than the 2013+ vehicles. I hear you on that. I don't care for the trunk button in the middle of the dash. And there shouldn't even be one anyways. I really like the way the German cars are where anytime your doors are unlocked you can walk up to the vehicle and open the trunk. My old '82 Mercedes is the same way. When the doors lock, the trunk locks too. Why do it any other way? I really miss that feature. I'm also not one bit impressed with my top of the line stereo system offered by Ford either. Sound quality is not very good at all. I wish you could tap the cruise control buttons to speed up or slow down in 1 MPH increments. I miss that feature that was also on my wifes Traverse. Can't say I've ever had an easier vehicle to do oil changes on....
Quote from: SilvererSHO on December 14, 2017, 01:47:31 PM
I'm also not one bit impressed with my top of the line stereo system offered by Ford either. Sound quality is not very good at all. I wish you could tap the cruise control buttons to speed up or slow down in 1 MPH increments. I miss that feature that was also on my wifes Traverse.
I actually really like the 2013+ interior on the MKS. Although I do like the 2010-2012 Taurus shift level. It's like a big ole' T-handle. The 2013+ MKS also has a better sound system. If you get radar cruise, you do get the ability to push a button to raise/lower speed in 1mph increments. Join us on the dark side, go MKS. Once you get over the grandpa-car styling, they are great lol.
Quote from: Agentlongwood on December 14, 2017, 02:07:43 PM
Quote from: SilvererSHO on December 14, 2017, 01:47:31 PM
I'm also not one bit impressed with my top of the line stereo system offered by Ford either. Sound quality is not very good at all. I wish you could tap the cruise control buttons to speed up or slow down in 1 MPH increments. I miss that feature that was also on my wifes Traverse.
I actually really like the 2013+ interior on the MKS. Although I do like the 2010-2012 Taurus shift level. It's like a big ole' T-handle. The 2013+ MKS also has a better sound system. If you get radar cruise, you do get the ability to push a button to raise/lower speed in 1mph increments. Join us on the dark side, go MKS. Once you get over the grandpa-car styling, they are great lol.
Well I'm not getting any younger but maybe I'll get one AFTER my mid-life crisis I have yet to enjoy. ;D
Is the Cruise Control different on the 10-12? On my 15 SHO IIRC, I just had to use the 'Set' button on the steering wheel to adjust cruise up/down.
Quote from: derfdog15 on December 14, 2017, 02:35:38 PM
Is the Cruise Control different on the 10-12? On my 15 SHO IIRC, I just had to use the 'Set' button on the steering wheel to adjust cruise up/down.
Yes, but you hold it down until you reach the desired speed to increase or decrease speed don't you? I'm talking about 3 taps on one button to slow down 3 MPH. 7 taps on the other to increase by 7 MPH etc. etc. That's how the wife's old Traverse worked and I really liked it.
Quote from: SilvererSHO on December 14, 2017, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: derfdog15 on December 14, 2017, 02:35:38 PM
Is the Cruise Control different on the 10-12? On my 15 SHO IIRC, I just had to use the 'Set' button on the steering wheel to adjust cruise up/down.
Yes, but you hold it down until you reach the desired speed to increase or decrease speed don't you? I'm talking about 3 taps on one button to slow down 3 MPH. 7 taps on the other to increase by 7 MPH etc. etc. That's how the wife's old Traverse worked and I really liked it.
On mine I can tap the button and it goes up by 1 mph. If I tap it 3 times it goes up by 3 mph. Mine has the adaptive cruise control. Not sure if the regular cruise control works the same.
Quote from: Agentlongwood on December 14, 2017, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: SilvererSHO on December 14, 2017, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: derfdog15 on December 14, 2017, 02:35:38 PM
Is the Cruise Control different on the 10-12? On my 15 SHO IIRC, I just had to use the 'Set' button on the steering wheel to adjust cruise up/down.
Yes, but you hold it down until you reach the desired speed to increase or decrease speed don't you? I'm talking about 3 taps on one button to slow down 3 MPH. 7 taps on the other to increase by 7 MPH etc. etc. That's how the wife's old Traverse worked and I really liked it.
On mine I can tap the button and it goes up by 1 mph. If I tap it 3 times it goes up by 3 mph. Mine has the adaptive cruise control. Not sure if the regular cruise control works the same.
OK, that makes sense then. My wife has a 2014 SEL without adaptive cruise control and it doesn't work that way unless I'm doing it wrong.
2015 SHO. Yeah the Adaptive cruise you can do +/-1 increments.
The thing that drives me nuts is the touch screen. So not a touch screen. More like a LAG or No touch screen and now the cold weather is messing up stuff with the No Key found and Battery saving mod etc etc. Another thread here.
On the OP post here. I would do Wildwoods if you are going to track the car. Dont skimp on tires or brakes.
Quote from: Agentlongwood on December 14, 2017, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: SilvererSHO on December 14, 2017, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: derfdog15 on December 14, 2017, 02:35:38 PM
Is the Cruise Control different on the 10-12? On my 15 SHO IIRC, I just had to use the 'Set' button on the steering wheel to adjust cruise up/down.
Yes, but you hold it down until you reach the desired speed to increase or decrease speed don't you? I'm talking about 3 taps on one button to slow down 3 MPH. 7 taps on the other to increase by 7 MPH etc. etc. That's how the wife's old Traverse worked and I really liked it.
Quote from: Macgyver on December 14, 2017, 08:06:49 PM
2015 SHO. Yeah the Adaptive cruise you can do +/-1 increments.
The thing that drives me nuts is the touch screen. So not a touch screen. More like a LAG or No touch screen and now the cold weather is messing up stuff with the No Key found and Battery saving mod etc etc. Another thread here.
On the OP post here. I would do Wildwoods if you are going to track the car. Dont skimp on tires or brakes.
Quote from: Agentlongwood on December 14, 2017, 06:05:12 PM
Quote from: SilvererSHO on December 14, 2017, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: derfdog15 on December 14, 2017, 02:35:38 PM
Is the Cruise Control different on the 10-12? On my 15 SHO IIRC, I just had to use the 'Set' button on the steering wheel to adjust cruise up/down.
Yes, but you hold it down until you reach the desired speed to increase or decrease speed don't you? I'm talking about 3 taps on one button to slow down 3 MPH. 7 taps on the other to increase by 7 MPH etc. etc. That's how the wife's old Traverse worked and I really liked it.
Well I'll be damned.... I guess my '12 SHO does do it in 1 MPH increments. I tried the wife's when she first got the car and it didn't work and then tried mine and assumed it didn't do it because it's not nearly as responsive as it was on the wife's old Traverse so I didn't even realize it works. DUH.... I'm assuming since you can't get adaptive cruise control with the PP they give you the +/- increment deal without it? And then on my wife's car you'd have to upgrade to adaptive cruise control to get it?