Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Troubleshooting, Maintenance, TSB Articles => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 09:01:09 AM

Title: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 09:01:09 AM
2018 Sho
25k miles
Recently pulled 10oz of ptu fluid and replaced with Royal purple 75/140
Recent GH tune
Wife took car to Georgia ,approx.5 hour drive,when she got back home she said the "awd off" message displayed a few times ,she clicked "ok" and kept driving .She just told me this today,I'm curious if maybe I didn't add enough gear oil to ptu or could this be tune related ?Gonna get in and check the PTU today but since 8 can't suck all the oil out not sure how much to add or if this is even the problem.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on May 28, 2019, 09:50:45 AM
Did you happen to check for Codes! Do you happen to have the Performance package! Need to add close to the same amount of PTU FLUID that came out. Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on May 28, 2019, 10:34:51 AM
Fill till the gear oil comes out the fill hole is the gold standard.  Def check codes.

Did the SHO get driven through heavy rain or run thru a high pressure carwash w underbody cleaning?  There could be dirt/grime/moisture in the connector for the ATC/RDU.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: Jordan on May 28, 2019, 11:51:02 AM
He doesn't mention he only replaced what he pulled out. He didn't put back in a full 18oz. Just watched him rage at someone on Facebook for saying the rest probably turned into mush lol
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SM105K on May 28, 2019, 11:54:42 AM
Quote from: Jordan on May 28, 2019, 11:51:02 AM
He doesn't mention he only replaced what he pulled out. He didn't put back in a full 18oz. Just watched him rage at someone on Facebook for saying the rest probably turned into mush lol

It probably did turn into mush.  The lifetime fluid has the propensity to do that.  Z and Shodded are right, fill it till it starts coming out of the fill hole.  Make sure the vent is secure, along with the fill plug.  Then like a mail man, SEND IT!
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: FiveLeeter918 on May 28, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
I told him he needed to put the full 18oz in and he called me a troll and blocked me...
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: shoNoff on May 28, 2019, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: FiveLeeter918 on May 28, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
I told him he needed to put the full 18oz in and he called me a troll and blocked me...

This actually made my morning  :rofl2:. Stop giving bad advice troll lol
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 06:31:18 PM
I take advice but nobody wants to seek help then get talked down to man
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 06:34:12 PM
I pulled about 10oz out and put 10oz back in like I've been told,I followed advice and appreciated it,nobody wants to really seek advice then get hammered .if I should fill till it overflows slightly then that's what I will do ,I don't usually sit around and fight on the internet,In the Jeep groups I'm in I help out and don't chastize or assume someone doesn't know anything,each vehicle has its differences and I've been through a few,I think one guys just told me to take it to the dealer etc
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 06:37:54 PM
Fiveleeter,I sent you an apology for this morning ,didn't have my coffee yet!
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on May 28, 2019, 06:43:42 PM
Social media is a real crapshoot.  Since messaging occurs rapidfire, a lot of folks leave their filters off.  Can get ugly real fast.

It happens on this forum on occassion, but thankfully our members keep it to a minimum :)
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: shoNoff on May 28, 2019, 06:48:31 PM
It's the internet, don't take what most people say seriously. No need to rage on people trying to help. Guys here are very knowledgeable and will help you. Like many have told you fill it until it comes out of the filler hole and all should be good. You talked down to 2 people on here already. Do you think people want to jump to help you when you talked down to them? Treat people how you want to be treated.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 06:49:10 PM
I usually just talk to friends face to face,stuff like that doesn't happen that way ,unfortunately unlike the Jeeps and off-road rigs I usually deal with this is a special car with little things like the ptu I don't normally deal with .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 06:52:06 PM
Who have I talked down to?
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 06:53:42 PM
That's true what you said treat people how you want to be treated,someone treats you bad ,you mouth off back .Basically what happened...
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on May 28, 2019, 06:56:39 PM
Let's move on :)  I think we all understand each other now ...
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: shoNoff on May 28, 2019, 06:58:17 PM
Quote from: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 06:52:06 PM
Who have I talked down to?

You've redeemed yourself since your original post. All is good man it's water under the bridge at this point. Let's move on, fix your ride and put a smile on your face with that gh tune.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on May 28, 2019, 07:20:02 PM
To the OP! Did you happen to check for Codes! Never received a response! PICS to share! Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 07:20:16 PM
Just ran out and snatched the tire off,she took 8 more oz before started weeping out, thanks all and again sorry ,I'll try to behave
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 07:22:00 PM
Sorry buddy, I did immed. Check for codes and nothing was there. I wish my wife would have told me sooner but her being 5 hours away from home I could not have done much and trying to talk someone through adding ptu fluid wasn't gonna happen,my family aren't mecahnics,just farmers up that way.Thanks again !
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: shoNoff on May 28, 2019, 07:22:41 PM
Wow thats quite a bit. Hopefully this resolves the issue.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 07:30:34 PM
I hope so ,we will see. Thanks again !
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on May 28, 2019, 07:34:20 PM
Quote from: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 07:22:00 PM
Sorry buddy, I did immed. Check for codes and nothing was there. I wish my wife would have told me sooner but her being 5 hours away from home I could not have done much and trying to talk someone through adding ptu fluid wasn't gonna happen,my family aren't mecahnics,just farmers up that way.Thanks again !
No worries! Glad you were able to find the FIll Hole! Best of luck.  Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 07:43:56 PM
Oh yeah I'm good at it now ! Just got messed up with many folks saying just add what you take out ,then I read here somewhere to gently top it off but if there is not a heat sensor on the ptu then the "awd off" heat signal must have come from the RDU,right? I checked that fluid as well and it was good,I didn't change it but I did check it . All we have seen is that message a few times on one trip,never lost awd or had front only pulling that I can tell .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on May 28, 2019, 08:33:35 PM
Yeah, it is triggered by some situation with control of the RDU, not usually by the PTU itself.  Since many people have PTUs that had been gunked down to basically solid gunk, and the AWD still worked fine, I am not sure that having only 10 oz in there was the cause of the AWD OFF message.  I think all should be well now tho.  As I said before, the ony other item you can check is the electrical integrity of the connection at the ATC.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: avidmotion on May 28, 2019, 10:06:40 PM
Since you may have burned up some of the life in the fluid, I would do a full dump and put in Amsoil etc...I'd also d the pigtail so you can change ptu quick.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SM105K on May 29, 2019, 08:40:58 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 28, 2019, 06:43:42 PM
Social media is a real crapshoot.  Since messaging occurs rapidfire, a lot of folks leave their filters off.  Can get ugly real fast.

It happens on this forum on occassion, but thankfully our members keep it to a minimum :)

I don't know what you are talking about......
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on May 29, 2019, 09:41:37 AM
 :play_ball:
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: FiveLeeter918 on May 29, 2019, 01:27:31 PM
Quote from: jus2quik on May 28, 2019, 06:37:54 PM
Fiveleeter,I sent you an apology for this morning ,didn't have my coffee yet!

All good man, it happens.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 02, 2019, 03:11:50 PM
Checked rear rdu fluid and it's clean and full,air pressure in all tires the same ,only thing 8 have found that is suspect is the rear tires are of a different brand than the front . Same size but thinking about how if the rear or front tires are of different " real " size after a few hours I could imagine the clutches could " possibly" heat up and cause the code,you guys think this is a possibility ? I believe the Rdu is the only component with a sensor correct ? Thanks fellas for the help !
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on June 02, 2019, 06:19:12 PM
If you have a PP, then the PTU has a temp sensor.  Otherwise there are no sensors in the AWD system itself.

Have not heard of tread design causing problems unless the AWD is in action continuously for a long period of time. Traction differences are handled by AdvanceTrac dividing the speed and power as appropriate.

It is possible that a hub problem has developed, but even then I have not seen such a message go off.  Does the ptu fluid look good?  Then we are back to tire pressures or 4x4 module or damaged wiring/dirty connectors.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 03, 2019, 11:42:56 PM
So no heat sensors or electronic sensors  in the rdu unit itself,right? Clutch engagement is manual not electronically actuated? I don’t have a PP car.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on June 04, 2019, 12:14:47 AM
Clutch actuation is electronically actuated.  The 4x4 module tells the RDU when and how much clutch to apply.

But no sensors otherwise in the RDU, no.  There is supposed to be a heat protection mode for the RDU, but I am fuzzy on how it actually works.  Probably related to the solenoid in the ATC that controls the clutch.

Heat Protection Mode
During very extreme off-road operation, the AWD system utilizes a heat protection mode to protect the active torque control coupling (ATCC) solenoid (part of rear axle) from damage. If the system detects an overheat condition, it enters a locked mode. If the heat in the system continues to rise once in the locked mode, the 4X4 control module disables the ATCC solenoid. Allow the system to cool down at least 10 minutes with the ignition switch in the ON position.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on June 04, 2019, 06:39:28 AM
Has the AWD OFF in Dash returned! If not wouldn't worry to much IMO!

The Powertrain Control Module sends a signal to partially or fully engage or disengage the Rear Wheel Drive part of the AWD. Based on input from the (four wheel sensors) feeding the ABS module, the steering-angle sensor module, and the instrument cluster module, the PCM sends a signal to the AWD really module and the 4x4 lock solenoid in the Active Torque Coupling.  Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 04, 2019, 10:56:37 AM
Signal came one once about 4 hours into a trip and about 3 hours on the way home my wife said,she is about to take the car on a 1 month trek across the country with a friend next month and don't want her to have any issues .we do normal 1 or two hour round trip drives and never had an issue. I'm gonna put some new tires on it before her trip ,I'm sure it will be fine.From what I'm reading the tires don't have to be so precisely the same size to matter .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jims2015 on June 04, 2019, 11:23:02 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 04, 2019, 06:39:28 AM
Has the AWD OFF in Dash returned! If not wouldn't worry to much IMO!

The Powertrain Control Module sends a signal to partially or fully engage or disengage the Rear Wheel Drive part of the AWD. Based on input from the (four wheel sensors) feeding the ABS module, the steering-angle sensor module, and the instrument cluster module, the PCM sends a signal to the AWD really module and the 4x4 lock solenoid in the Active Torque Coupling.  Z

What do you mean by partially engage? Does the clutch in the unit actually partially slip under certain conditions? I thought it was either on or off.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on June 04, 2019, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: jims2015 on June 04, 2019, 11:23:02 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 04, 2019, 06:39:28 AM
Has the AWD OFF in Dash returned! If not wouldn't worry to much IMO!

The Powertrain Control Module sends a signal to partially or fully engage or disengage the Rear Wheel Drive part of the AWD. Based on input from the (four wheel sensors) feeding the ABS module, the steering-angle sensor module, and the instrument cluster module, the PCM sends a signal to the AWD really module and the 4x4 lock solenoid in the Active Torque Coupling.  Z

What do you mean by partially engage? Does the clutch in the unit actually partially slip under certain conditions? I thought it was either on or off.
The ATC in turn is controlled by the PCM. The amount of torque is infinitely variable, not just engaged-ON and disengaged-OFF.
It can deliver zero percent to the rear, like it does in the Default FWD condition. Or it can deliver anywhere from 1 percent to 100 percent of the engine torque to the rear wheels IIRC!  Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on June 04, 2019, 12:21:01 PM
If you are worried about it and don't need AWD, pull the fuse for the trip.  Will not hurt anything, but definitely avoid hard acceleration from a stop to avoid torque steer.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: avidmotion on June 04, 2019, 12:21:33 PM
https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/haldex-awd-system.107563/
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: avidmotion on June 04, 2019, 12:25:19 PM
and this....
https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/how-does-the-awd-work.119781/
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: avidmotion on June 05, 2019, 09:09:25 PM
wow after reading all that I think I am all researched up on the subject now!
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jims2015 on June 06, 2019, 12:50:28 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 04, 2019, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: jims2015 on June 04, 2019, 11:23:02 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 04, 2019, 06:39:28 AM
Has the AWD OFF in Dash returned! If not wouldn't worry to much IMO!

The Powertrain Control Module sends a signal to partially or fully engage or disengage the Rear Wheel Drive part of the AWD. Based on input from the (four wheel sensors) feeding the ABS module, the steering-angle sensor module, and the instrument cluster module, the PCM sends a signal to the AWD really module and the 4x4 lock solenoid in the Active Torque Coupling.  Z

What do you mean by partially engage? Does the clutch in the unit actually partially slip under certain conditions? I thought it was either on or off.
The ATC in turn is controlled by the PCM. The amount of torque is infinitely variable, not just engaged-ON and disengaged-OFF.
It can deliver zero percent to the rear, like it does in the Default FWD condition. Or it can deliver anywhere from 1 percent to 100 percent of the engine torque to the rear wheels IIRC!  Z

So otherwords, the clutches can take quite an abuse while slipping under load. I haven't heard of any failures. Are the clutches wet or dry?
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on June 06, 2019, 06:12:53 AM
They are immersed in Mercon LV so I would say wet.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 06, 2019, 04:30:57 PM
I thought the PP models were wet clutches and the standard was a dry clutch setup
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on June 06, 2019, 07:36:01 PM
Good INFO on the AWD & MORE! Z

The Rear Differential Unit on the police version uses a fluid-filled clutch pack, while the retail version uses dry clutches. The fluid-filled RDU can withstand more severe duty.

Both the PI Sedan and PI Utility operate as FWD vehicles until wheel slip is detected. Only then does power transfer to the rear wheels. Of the most importance, the transaxle with water-cooled (police-only) AWD Power Transfer Unit was located. And then the rear axle mounted Active Torque Coupling Unit attached to the Rear Differential Unit was pointed out. On these AWD vehicles, power is continually fed to both the front half-shafts and the rear driveshaft. The driveshaft is constantly engaged and rotating even if power is not fed to the rear wheels.

The Front Wheel Drive system and the Power Transfer Unit send torque back to the rear clutch pack all the time. Any time the vehicle is moving, the driveshaft to the rear is turning. The Active Torque Coupling mounted on the Rear Differential Unit only passes on torque when needed. But it is literally right there when it is needed.

The ATC/RDU used on the Police Interceptors uses fluid-filled "wet" clutch packs. The retail Taurus and Explorer use dry clutches. The PI wet clutches can withstand higher temps and withstand higher temps longer than the retail unit. The ATC and RDU are not field serviceable. In case of a problem with either system, the whole unit is replaced.

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=5091 (http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=5091)
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:55:46 AM
This is not my understanding, but I could be wrong.  I got the info from a Ford tech (on an Edge).  I will ask him specifically about the SHO, see if he knows ...
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jims2015 on June 07, 2019, 03:59:38 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 06, 2019, 07:36:01 PM
Good INFO on the AWD & MORE! Z

The Rear Differential Unit on the police version uses a fluid-filled clutch pack, while the retail version uses dry clutches. The fluid-filled RDU can withstand more severe duty.

Both the PI Sedan and PI Utility operate as FWD vehicles until wheel slip is detected. Only then does power transfer to the rear wheels. Of the most importance, the transaxle with water-cooled (police-only) AWD Power Transfer Unit was located. And then the rear axle mounted Active Torque Coupling Unit attached to the Rear Differential Unit was pointed out. On these AWD vehicles, power is continually fed to both the front half-shafts and the rear driveshaft. The driveshaft is constantly engaged and rotating even if power is not fed to the rear wheels.

The Front Wheel Drive system and the Power Transfer Unit send torque back to the rear clutch pack all the time. Any time the vehicle is moving, the driveshaft to the rear is turning. The Active Torque Coupling mounted on the Rear Differential Unit only passes on torque when needed. But it is literally right there when it is needed.

The ATC/RDU used on the Police Interceptors uses fluid-filled "wet" clutch packs. The retail Taurus and Explorer use dry clutches. The PI wet clutches can withstand higher temps and withstand higher temps longer than the retail unit. The ATC and RDU are not field serviceable. In case of a problem with either system, the whole unit is replaced.

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=5091 (http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=5091)

Great article and info. Thnx
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 29, 2019, 08:36:24 PM
Went to a buddies shop and we ran codes and checked all connections ,all looked good and had good continuity through wires ,rechecked fluids and called it a day.
     Just went on another 3 hour drive today since my last "AWD off" message,about 60 miles in the message came on so I pulled over into some grass and sure as hell just FWD,let it cool like manual says and tested in grass again,awd back up and working. Another 60 miles or so of 80+ mph dry highway. Message came back on .
Went back to reading info on the RDU itself,found info stating that when the rdu overheats the clutches first lock up to try and cool itself down,if this is the case then when I immediately pulled over to check wouldn't the clutches in the RDU possibly be locked in AWD not disengaged ? I usually can figure things out like this so it's hard for me to give up and just drop everything off at the dealer but I guess it's time .Wish I could just talk to a tech face to face that knows what it could possibly be . Again thanks all ,hopefully this thread will help someone with a similar problem .I know 8 can't be the only one this has happened to .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 29, 2019, 08:40:51 PM
Also I never got this message or situation before my tune a few months ago,but I couldn't imagine that would have anyth8ng to do with anything unless somehow it changed how aggressive the RDU locks up somehow.I imagine if voltage has changed maybe the clutches are dragging more that normal causing heat buildup ,maybe?
Also can't find a temp sensor mentioned in the RDU itself,only have two wires running into the housing that I can see.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on June 29, 2019, 08:54:16 PM
There is only a Temp sensor on the PTU only available on the Performance package or Police package version AFAIK! Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 29, 2019, 09:14:14 PM
That's what makes it seem odd that they say "if it overheats " the AWD off message will pop up,How does it know that it's overheated if there is not a temp sensor of some kind in the RDU?
         there must be a gremlin or something at work in the harness ,maybe the dealer can figure it out ,I'll post back what they  found or what they do to fix it
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on June 30, 2019, 01:56:44 PM
How many owners on your SHO! I did not see any Mods in your signature! If you have warranty I would not hesitate to make an appt ASAP IMO! Z 

Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 30, 2019, 02:16:33 PM
Lease vehicle with 20k miles
GH tune ,plugs,tstat and drop in filter
Recently changed fluids
RDU looks like it's been replaced,tool marks on all bolts holding it in ,when I checked fluid looked new and fresh.
Did my best to do a good PTU fluid change
Want to learn " how" this car works ,hate just dropping it off at dealership,I'm a hands on mechanic type ,had many cars and off-road rigs that required study and hard work ,but if this is a dealer issue I better let them have a crack at it . I have a 100k bumper to bumper extended warranty and have already set it back to stock and put the 2 bar MAP back in . I'm good with swapping parts,welding and modding brackets,etc but just lack in electrical things in depth .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on June 30, 2019, 04:38:16 PM
I was curious if you ever replaced the Tires! I was able to obtain some Good INFO Directly from WSM! Z  :)

The AWD system consists of a PTU , driveshaft, front and rear halfshafts, AWD relay module, PCM which includes the AWD control logic and an ATC solenoid located in the rear axle. Based on inputs to the PCM, the PCM sends a command to the AWD relay module. The amount of torque sent to the rear wheels is controlled by the AWD relay module sending a PWM duty cycle to the ATC solenoid.

The PCM provides the brake system with its current clutch command torque level and determines wether or not the brake system may take command of the AWD clutch.

If the compact spare tire is installed, the AWD system may disable automatically and enter FWD only mode to protect driveline components. This condition may be indicated by an AWD OFF message in the message center.

If there is an AWD OFF message in the message center from using the compact spare tire, this indicator should turn off after reinstalling the repaired or replaced normal road tire and cycling the ignition OFF and ON. It is recommended to reinstall the repaired or replaced road tire as soon as possible. Major dissimilar tire sizes between the front and rear axles could cause the AWD system to stop functioning and default to FWD or damage the AWD system.

AWD faults will be indicated by the powertrain malfunction (wrench) message center warning indicator in the IPC as well as the Check AWD message center warning indicator in the message center.

The PCM provides the brake system with its current clutch command torque level and determines wether or not the brake system may take command of the AWD clutch.

Heat Protection ( RDU )

During very extreme off-road operation, the AWD system utilizes a heat protection mode to protect the AWD clutch from damage. If the AWD system detects an overheat condition, it enters a locked mode. If the heat in the AWD system continues to rise once in the locked mode, the PCM disables the ATC solenoid. This condition may be indicated by an AWD OFF message in the message center. To resume normal AWD function as soon as possible, stop the vehicle in a safe location and stop the engine for at least 10 minutes. After the engine is restarted and the AWD system has adequately cooled down, the AWD OFF message will turn off and normal AWD operation will return. In the event the engine is not stopped, the AWD OFF message will turn off when the system cools and normal AWD operation returns.

Visual Inspection Chart

Mechanical   Electrical
ATC solenoid (part of rear axle)
PTU
RDU
Halfshafts and CV joints
Driveshaft and U-joints
Fluid leaks
Wheel/tire size and brand
Matching tire size and brand
Tire pressure
BJB fuse 70 (15A)
AWD relay
Wiring harness
Connector(s)
Circuitry
PCM
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on June 30, 2019, 08:37:52 PM
Hopefully they wont give me grief for not having the same brand tires front and rear,the sizes are the same tbough
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 03, 2019, 12:54:23 PM
Dropped Taurus off at the dealership today,first thing the guy says is that the tires are different make front and rear and it prob won't be covered,they are the same size,age and air pressure ,the dealership where we bought the car bought two sets of tires for two Taurus cars and the tech mixed the tires up ,brand new tires but different brands and they want to possibly deny the warranty claim.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 03, 2019, 01:17:04 PM
All BS.  As long as tire height and tread pattern are approx the same, they should work equally.  Worst comes to worst, buy some used tires from a reputable shop and mount at all 4 corners, then take it back in.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on July 03, 2019, 02:06:21 PM
Agreed ^^^ It sounds like they want to profit on some new rubber!
I would also try to perform a Battery reset to clear the PCM memory and monitor for any changes..

I think locating a reputable Lincoln dealer is ideal especially if they cannot or won't troubleshoot it properly IMO! Z 

https://youtu.be/hZAsoqmqhdM
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 03, 2019, 04:22:04 PM
The message and the awd kick off around 60-80 miles into a trip at highway speeds,they took it for a 10 minute ride and said they could not duplicate it ,geez
        I might have to try the Lincoln dealership if these guys don't get their act together.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on July 03, 2019, 04:30:50 PM
Did they charge you a Diagnostic Fee! There must be some codes stored in the PCM which should of been checked with Ford IDS or VCM Rotunda tools. Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 03, 2019, 05:50:58 PM
They are now going to do a "extended" road test Friday when everybody gets back from the holidays
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 08, 2019, 02:31:12 PM
Was told today by the dealership that they will not perform an extended road test which would have to be 60-80 miles on the highway without stopping for the message ,they said if it didn't do it with  the standard 10 mile test drive then it wasn't something they could cover,extended road tests are not something they do .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 08, 2019, 03:23:58 PM
Do they have black box recorders?  If not, ask them to escalate up to Ford Engineering.  If they still will not assist, call Ford directly and get the ball rolling on that end.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 08, 2019, 05:16:57 PM
Really funny ,i asked the guy If they were going to data log on the test drive,they said no ,i basically said i have 5 pics of the "awd off" message saved on my phone ,they said a tech would have to "witness" it but they wont take it on a drive ling enough to make the message come on , bout to  get ugly i guess.I also sprayed some TriFlow on the coils because they were squeaking ,dumb butts ordered shock because they said they were leaking after i told them i sprayed lube on them accidentally.They said they could t test drive the car until the shocks came in  ,this is after i told them i sprayed the stuff on there.Im in awe currently,Already have another dealership lined up that will do the extended road test this coming up monday but i hotta get it out of this dealership first.Duval Ford in Jacksonville is who has it now .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 08, 2019, 06:16:38 PM
Just got off the phone with the advisor,they are going to possibly swap a new set of tires off a brand new SHO and take it for the long drive and see if it's maybe something with the tires ,they said they were getting a lot of city police cars with mix matched tires that were causing issues with the RDU lately .fingers crossed
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 08, 2019, 06:17:47 PM
So it basically went from them saying they have never seen this problem to ,yeah we have been seeing the problem it with police cruisers with the awd
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 08, 2019, 06:41:30 PM
LOL, at least they respond when push comes to shove.  Swapping wheel/tire with a known "good" combo would have been the first step if that is what they were blaming.  Let's see :D
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on July 08, 2019, 09:17:20 PM
It sounds like they contacted Ford Hotline! The SHO and PI are pretty much identical in many aspects! Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 09, 2019, 01:04:38 PM
Well they decided to tell me that I had to replace all 4 tires before they would investigate any further.....road test with new tires isn't happening ,going to go pick the car up in the morning .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 09, 2019, 02:15:24 PM
figures ...
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on July 09, 2019, 02:50:49 PM
This issue is actually quite common when dealing with various municipalities, many cruisers have this issue due to PDs not rotating their tires on a proper schedule.

It is also true that putting new tires on is SOP before going farther but there is a tread difference allowance and that would only be asked if you were right on the edge or over this difference, which they should have articulated to you.

Ford guideline is 5% but the Mrs has seen it cause issues starting at 3/32 and fixed with a new set.

Did they swap tires off ANY new Taurus? Much simpler solution I would insist on before ponying up any coin. I would also make them show me the alleged difference. While they are at least telling the partial truth I wouldn't put it past certain dealerships to be lazy and get an the extra tire sale.

Good luck!


Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 09, 2019, 03:55:43 PM
If this is the case, the "intelligent" part in intelligent all wheel drive is total BS.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 11, 2019, 09:49:55 PM
The service writer suggested to the manager to swap a set off a new sho but he  said "no" basically told me if I wanted it fixed to buy a new set of tires and come back.I took the car to a buddy's tire shop and we miked the tires with calipers off the car and they were exactly the same size . This is why I like fixing my own stuff and not dealing with the dealership but it is what it is ,I should have bought the car brand new I guess but saving $25k was worth it to me .
           When I got the car back from the dealership I checked the tire pressure and the fronts were 30psi and the rears were 35psi for some reason. I put them all at 35 psi and did not load  the Gearhead tune back up, my wife took the car to Tampa and the awd off message never came on after a 3 hour drive. I guess when she gets back I'll load the tune back up and see if that makes a difference . The two trips that we took with the message coming on were both with the tune loaded on the car. Don't know how that would make a difference but we will see .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 11, 2019, 11:45:04 PM
Tire pressure was a factor in another member's AWD issues, also tuned.  Let's see what happens with the GH tune back on.  Should be traction control related TBH and not THAT sensitive, at least per design.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 12, 2019, 11:57:17 AM
I'll report back once I get a tuned road test done
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 16, 2019, 04:49:12 PM
Well come to find out the service advisor was lying the whole time, he never asked the manager about swapping the tires for new sho wheels and tires or the extended test drive,talked to her and she is making it happen ,dropped her back off and waiting to  hear the results. Took the car on a 4 hour drive and the message won't come on unless you are at a sustained uninterrupted 75-80mph run at around the 55-60 mile mark . Hopefully a new set of tires will solve this issue .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 16, 2019, 05:35:55 PM
That would be infuriating, but cool.  Tires are easily replaced.  As long as the powertrain stays intact, all is well.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 16, 2019, 07:50:56 PM
So basically Ford literature I've seen about the awd system not being finicky about tire size differences is a bunch of BS
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 16, 2019, 07:52:53 PM
If the tires prove out then yes it would seem.  Or maybe the not finicky is at road legal speeds?  IDK about the limitations.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 29, 2019, 08:21:48 PM
AWD off message only comes on after 50-60 miles at 80mph so maybe over that much time and speed it's possible
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: TopherSho on July 29, 2019, 10:58:33 PM
I'm not aware of the RDU being "load sensitive". But it cleraly is a logic issue with triggering the fault at higher speeds.

Any chance the RDU was replaced at any point?
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on July 30, 2019, 06:38:56 AM
TSS-Sensor! Dunno. Z
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on July 30, 2019, 07:09:11 PM
When I was under the car it did look like I saw tool marks on the RDU leading me to believe it has been out or replaced before .After I got the car from the dealership and to.d them 8 was going somewhere else the manager talked me into coming back in,she drove the car with a new set of tires and it never faulted,they put my tires back on and no message again,I insisted you had to be going 75-80 consistently for atleast 60 miles like on a road trip. After badgering They finally installed a brand new RDU , I've yet to road test it again but will this week hopefully .
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on July 30, 2019, 11:29:52 PM
Hopefully got this thing handled now.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: 802SHO on July 31, 2019, 05:15:48 AM
I second that and wish you smooth sailing! 
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: avidmotion on August 01, 2019, 10:02:10 AM
keep us updated....when i had 2 summers on the front 2 all season on back i could not tell unless hard braking in a turn, the traction control light would come on until after the turn.....only issue i could notice(both summers n all season were brand new and same stock size)....
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on November 01, 2019, 10:52:05 PM
Well dealer  ship installed new RDU ,went on a trip and about 45 minutes from the house ,"AWD message" came on again. Not sure what's going on .some say maybe a wheel speed sensor,but no codes indicating. Comes on after a brisk 80 or so mph cruise.Doesnt seem to happen if I stay below 70 but I can't seem to do that for long with cars passing me on the interstate.
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: jus2quik on November 01, 2019, 10:54:32 PM
Things I haven't tried yet:
Driving under 70
Put back to stock programming
Buy new tires - maybe with launching and spinning the fronts are now smaller than the rear and after a long high speed cruise it heats something up or throws a signal off
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: SHOdded on November 02, 2019, 03:48:50 AM
Tires are untested, the AWD module is untested.  Probably easier to check the AWD module for poor connectivity, may be a burnt pin or something like that causing the whole issue.  Should be behind the right hand side cowl trim panel.

I am sure the dealer updated the RDU/ATC barcode in the AWD module also, but worth a check.

NOTE: 
DTC P1635 (Tire/Axle Out of Acceptable Range) — When the 4X4 control module detects an inappropriate size mini spare or road wheels/tires (greater than 7% difference in size across the front and rear axle or greater than 14% difference in size at one wheel on either the front or rear axle) installed, this DTC will be set.

Visual Inspection Chart

Mechanical
Active Torque Coupling (ATC) solenoid (part of rear axle)
Power Transfer Unit (PTU)
Rear Drive Unit (RDU)
Halfshafts and CV joints
Driveshaft and U-joints
Fluid leaks
Wheel/tire size and brand
Matching tire size and brand
Tire pressure
Electrical
Smart Junction Box (SJB) fuse(s):
11 (10A)
35 (10A)
4X4 control module
Wiring harness
Connector(s)
Circuitry

Pinpoint Test A: All-Wheel Drive (AWD) System Functional Test

Normal Operation
The All-Wheel Drive (AWD) system continuously monitors vehicle conditions and automatically adjusts the torque distribution between the front and rear wheels. During normal operation, most of the torque is delivered to the front wheels. If wheel slip between the front and rear wheels is detected, or if the vehicle is under heavy acceleration, the AWD system increases torque to the rear wheels to prevent or control wheel slip. When the AWD system is functioning properly, there should be no perceived speed difference between the front and rear axles when launching or driving the vehicle on any uniform surface. Traction should be similar to a part time Four-Wheel Drive (4WD) system in 4H (4X4 HIGH), but have no binding in turns.

This pinpoint test is intended to diagnose the following:
AWD system concern without on-demand or continuous DTCs
 
PINPOINT TEST A: AWD SYSTEM FUNCTIONAL TEST
WARNING: When directed to drive the vehicle as part of this test, drive the vehicle on a hard surface in an area without traffic to prevent a crash. Failure to follow these instructions may result in personal injury.

NOTE: Carry out a thorough inspection and verification as outlined before carrying out this pinpoint test. Refer to Inspection and Verification in this section.

Test Step  Result / Action to Take 
  A1 CHECK FOR ATC SOLENOID (PART OF REAR AXLE) LOCK     
Drive the vehicle on a dry, hard surface in turns while applying the accelerator pedal.
Is driveline wind-up present in turns?
Yes
With the ignition ON, allow the ATC solenoid to cool down for at least 10 minutes and repeat the test. CHECK for wind-up again. If no wind-up is found, GO to A3 . If still present, GO to Pinpoint Test E .

No
GO to A2 .
 
A2 CHECK FOR VALID ACCELERATOR PEDAL POSITION MONITORING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL POSITION (AP) PID     
Enter the following diagnostic mode on the scan tool: DataLogger — 4X4 Control Module.
Monitor the AP PID while pressing the accelerator pedal.
Does the accelerator pedal position match the AP PID percent value?
Yes
GO to A3 .

No
REFER to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual to diagnose the accelerator pedal position sensor concern. 

A3 CHECK 4X4 CONTROL MODULE WHEEL SPEED SENSOR PIDs     
Enter the following diagnostic mode on the scan tool: DataLogger — 4X4 Control Module.
While driving the vehicle at 48 km/h (30 mph), monitor the following wheel speed sensor PIDs:
Left Front Wheel Speed Sensor (LF_WSPD)
Left Rear Wheel Speed Sensor (LR_WSPD)
Right Front Wheel Speed Sensor (RF_WSPD)
Right Rear Wheel Speed Sensor (RR_WSPD)
Are all 4 wheel speeds within 2 km/h (1.2 mph) of each other?
Yes
GO to A4 .

No
GO to Pinpoint Test F . 

A4 CHECK VEHICLE ACCELERATION IN A STRAIGHT LINE     
Carry out 3 accelerations from 0-48 km/h (0-30 mph) in a straight line (1 each with low, medium and full accelerator pedal application).
Does the vehicle pulsate or shudder while accelerating?
Yes
GO to Pinpoint Test E .

No
GO to A5 . 

A5 CHECK VEHICLE TURNING ABILITY     
Drive the vehicle in a fully locked turn, on dry pavement, at 8 km/h (5 mph).
Does the vehicle bind in the turn or resist turning?
Yes
GO to Pinpoint Test E .

No
GO to A6 .

A6 CHECK FOR TORQUE AT REAR WHEELS USING OUTPUT CONTROL COMMAND #1 (CLCH_SOL) ACTIVE COMMAND     
Enter the following diagnostic mode on the scan tool: DataLogger — 4X4 Control Module.
Using the scan tool, command CLCH_SOL to energize the ATC solenoid to a constant 100% applied.
Drive the vehicle in a fully locked turn, on dry pavement, at 8 km/h (5 mph).
Does the vehicle bind in the turn or resist turning?
Yes
END the active command. The concern cannot be duplicated at this time. RETURN the vehicle to the customer.

No
END the active command. CHECK that the driveshaft rotates when the transaxle is in gear. If yes, GO to Pinpoint Test D . If no, CHECK the Power Transfer Unit (PTU). REFER to Section 308-07B . 
Title: Re: “AWD off” message on long drive
Post by: ZSHO on November 02, 2019, 06:59:44 AM
I'm curious and highly doubt you can duplicate your issue in stock tune!!!
Hmm interesting your able to spin the front tires!!
Check for any Bent Wheels which will throw off the AWD traction system. Z

Need To Move To a State with a 50 mph speed limit!  :D
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