Ecoboost Performance Forum

Long time lurker, first time poster, usually my questions are resolved by just searching. I'm at a crossroads now. I got my 2014 SHO non-PP back in January with 25k on it. It's been flawless up until now (32k miles or so) with just performing normal maintenance. Took the car to the in-laws yesterday for Father's Day celebrations. It's about 75 miles one way, had zero issues on the way. Fueled up, had to take the longer way home due to a road closure, but cruised back at 55-60 on some winding country roads home with no issues, and merged back onto the Interstate heading home. Guy in a minivan in front of me was trying to merge onto the highway at 40, so I gave the SHO about 75% throttle to go around and noticed some hesitation when passing. The MIL began to flash and the car had a definite miss. I pulled over, restarted, but the same result. I was only about 10 miles from home so I limped my way back on back roads only accelerating very slowly and parked in my driveway. Loaded up Torque Pro and scanned to find P0301 as a trouble code and P0087 as a pending code. Restarting the car is more difficult now (5-7 seconds of cranking before fire, occasionally longer) and it still has the miss.

When turning the car on the fuel rail pressure spikes to about 100psi and settles around 35-45psi. Once it cranks and idles it seems to hover around 180-220, but it's not stable. (I've got videos if it helps.) There's a definite fuel smell when it's idling rough, my guess is the injector spray pattern is crap, perhaps due to low fuel pressure, and it's not burning properly. The HPFP is noisy, but I don't know if it's noisier than it should be as I never had the engine cover and the sound proofing material off of it with it running before.

The car is out of warranty because it's a salvage car. It had fresh water flood water inside of it, but not even high enough to even damage the seats, no water was in the engine, and I doubt it was high enough to affect the in-tank pump and certainly not high enough to damage the HPFP. I really don't think this is residual damage from that's just coming up 7,000 miles later. It's not my first salvage or flood car, and probably won't be my last. Haha.

I'm trying to repair this myself, leaning toward the HPFP, but before I drop $300+ on one, I wanted to know if there's a better way to diagnose besides towing to the dealer. Our dealer here is notorious for charging full list for everything and every diagnostic fee and labor hour possible. I only got misfire on one cylinder which makes me think maybe injector, but unsure why that would cause low fuel pressure unless it was just stuck open. I've also read other folks having LPFP problems, but when powering on the car the rail primes to 100psi or so. I've also seem a few mentions of the fuel control module, but I don't know if there's shade-tree diagnostic method for that. I did just fill up 75-85 miles before the issue, bad gas could be a possibility, but it took an hour of solid driving before any issues appeared and I think it would've happened sooner.

Is there's a service manual available somewhere inexpensively where there's troubleshooting steps available, or specs on what fuel pressure is supposed to be during various phases of prime, start-up, idle, running?

Any advice is much appreciated. I sure miss driving the SHO every day. Oh, and the car is bone stock.

Just a thought...

I would pull the coil and plug on cylinder #1 and see what it looks like and make sure that coil is firing and that plug isn't trashed.

Thinking that the low fuel pressure code may be coming up just from it having to crank so much to get started?  The fuel pressure varies greatly in these cars.

Another possible idea is a bad or clogged injector on cylinder #1.  Maybe got bad gas when you filled up?

P0087 was present before the long crank times. It was present when I got home and left it idling just long enough to pull the codes.

Bad gas has crossed my mind more than once. I'll pull that coil and plug when I get home from lunch and check.

Is there a recommended fuel injector cleaner, or am I just stuck replacing or sending the injector off somewhere?

Thanks for the reply!

Quote from: sholxgt on June 20, 2016, 11:26:14 AM
Just a thought...

I would pull the coil and plug on cylinder #1 and see what it looks like and make sure that coil is firing and that plug isn't trashed.

Thinking that the low fuel pressure code may be coming up just from it having to crank so much to get started?  The fuel pressure varies greatly in these cars.

Another possible idea is a bad or clogged injector on cylinder #1.  Maybe got bad gas when you filled up?

p0087 might be related to the LPFP and/or the FPCM, see this post by BiGMaC:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,299.msg70631.html#msg70631 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,299.msg70631.html#msg70631)

p0301 probably injector leaking, that is a fairly common problem on these engines.  But hoping it is a plug/coil.  If the coil/plug is submerged in oil, then you have another common problem:  valve cover gasket leak on that bank, though typically an issue with cylinder 3 not 1.

No known studies on FI cleaners for DI systems, so can't say what to use.  But Techron and BG 44K have been my standbys for many years (non-DI), and have worked very well.  I think Valvoline FI cleaner also works pretty ok.  No harm in trying!  But if injector is that far gone, most likely you will have to replace it.

Might as well do all the plugs if that plug ends up being gapped over 0.040.  Not urgent for a bone stock SHO, but then you have a good baseline also. Motorcraft SP534s are fine.

And you can pick up a cheap manual on CD from EBay.  probably not for 2014, but 2012-13 CDs should be available, and the 2013 on should work for your '14.

I'll check that plug/coil tonight after work. Was going to do it at lunch until I realized Cylinder #1 is up against the firewall. Anyway to diagnose injector leaking other than replacing it? Swap to another cylinder? Probably no home game version of cleaning that injector either, I presume?

I'll keep an eye out for a mess of oil. Valve cover gasket on the back bank looks like a lot of fun.

I saw BiGMaC's post in my research, but didn't want to just willy nilly start throwing parts at it. I guess there's no harm in starting with the cheapest part and working my way up. It'd likely be cheaper than a trip to the dealer either way. LOL.

A guy at work brought up Techron, but specifically Gumout Regane as it's got the highest known percentage of PEA (30-50%), but it's likely very close to the Techron Concentrate. Might grab a bottle of either just for the hell of it. BG 44K has been a standby for years for me as well, but haven't needed to use any FI cleaner in a while.

I'll check the gap on that plug as well. I've been wanting a Livernois tune for a while and held off on plugs until then, but maybe if I can get the car to behave I'll just pull the trigger on the tune. Iridiums should come pre-gapped correct? I've read they're easy to damage gapping yourself.

Good call on the eBay CD. I've got an e-mail into what appears to be a reliable seller now asking if I can download before he ships it as I'm looking to get my hands on it quicker.

Thanks for the insight so far. Glad to have a community behind the car, makes me feel better about having issues vs. just winging it. I really love my SHO as my daily driver and every day I'm stuck driving something else just isn't as nice.

Quote from: SHOdded on June 20, 2016, 12:48:51 PM
p0087 might be related to the LPFP and/or the FPCM, see this post by BiGMaC:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,299.msg70631.html#msg70631 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,299.msg70631.html#msg70631)

p0301 probably injector leaking, that is a fairly common problem on these engines.  But hoping it is a plug/coil.  If the coil/plug is submerged in oil, then you have another common problem:  valve cover gasket leak on that bank, though typically an issue with cylinder 3 not 1.

No known studies on FI cleaners for DI systems, so can't say what to use.  But Techron and BG 44K have been my standbys for many years (non-DI), and have worked very well.  I think Valvoline FI cleaner also works pretty ok.  No harm in trying!  But if injector is that far gone, most likely you will have to replace it.

Might as well do all the plugs if that plug ends up being gapped over 0.040.  Not urgent for a bone stock SHO, but then you have a good baseline also. Motorcraft SP534s are fine.

And you can pick up a cheap manual on CD from EBay.  probably not for 2014, but 2012-13 CDs should be available, and the 2013 on should work for your '14.

Quote from: SHOdded on June 20, 2016, 12:48:51 PM
valve cover gasket leak on that bank, though typically an issue with cylinder 3 not 1.

Been there with mine.  I was surprised that I had no codes or misfire.  Plug wells looked the the Exxon Valdez cruised past my car. LOL

If the injector is leaking badly enough, you may see signs of it on the plug.  Post a picture when you pull it.  These new cars are harder to diagnose with plug readings because the ignition systems are so much better at cleaning any signs of trouble.

Good luck!  I know it's never fun.

If you have a leaky injector you may see it in the fuel trims of whatever bank its on.

Well, did some testing with Torque Pro at lunch watching fuel trims. YouTube video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I880d_ZH6mA)...

One code went away, but another appeared making me think it's an injector. P0301 remains, but P0087 has been traded for P00C6. Some quick Search-fu and that looks almost always injector related. Going to pull that plug and coil tonight. Hopefully it's not a bad job, the part appears fairly inexpensive to replace. Anything else I should replace while I've got it apart if it turns out to be the injector? Any recommended vendor for the injector? Tasca seems inexpensive and reliable.

Welcome aboard the EBPF Dee,might want to also consider replacing this sensor which relates to P00C6 which is fairly cheap.  Z     http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=%2b5tY2wBVFnyG7onPlL9O2A%3d%3d&id=355870013&m=2&search=true&year=2013&make=Ford&model=Taurus (http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=%2b5tY2wBVFnyG7onPlL9O2A%3d%3d&id=355870013&m=2&search=true&year=2013&make=Ford&model=Taurus)     http://www.levittownfordoemparts.com/auto-parts/2014/ford/taurus/sho-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/fuel-system-cat/fuel-system-components-scat (http://www.levittownfordoemparts.com/auto-parts/2014/ford/taurus/sho-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/fuel-system-cat/fuel-system-components-scat)  #25 on Diagram.  Z

A cheap and easy test is to swap in new sp534 spark plugs. I would be willing to bet you have a condensate induced misfire from buildup in the intercooler.

Quote from: 93Cobra on June 20, 2016, 03:41:17 PM
A cheap and easy test is to swap in new sp534 spark plugs. I would be willing to bet you have a condensate induced misfire from buildup in the intercooler.

Are you starting a theory that condensate causes low fuel pressure and that condensate only affects cylinder #1?

@ZSHO First, thanks for your input! I'm a bit confused. Your first link is to a "fuel pressure sensor" and the #25 in the second link is a "fuel pump relay." Are you suggesting one or both as the culprit? Do you think either of these would cause a misfire in just a single cylinder?

Quote from: ZSHO on June 20, 2016, 02:55:08 PM
Welcome aboard the EBPF Dee,might want to also consider replacing this sensor which relates to P00C6 which is fairly cheap.  Z     http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=%2b5tY2wBVFnyG7onPlL9O2A%3d%3d&id=355870013&m=2&search=true&year=2013&make=Ford&model=Taurus (http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=%2b5tY2wBVFnyG7onPlL9O2A%3d%3d&id=355870013&m=2&search=true&year=2013&make=Ford&model=Taurus)     http://www.levittownfordoemparts.com/auto-parts/2014/ford/taurus/sho-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/fuel-system-cat/fuel-system-components-scat (http://www.levittownfordoemparts.com/auto-parts/2014/ford/taurus/sho-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/fuel-system-cat/fuel-system-components-scat)  #25 on Diagram.  Z

@93Cobra I'm inclined to agree with sholxgt as we're chasing down a single cylinder issue and I've read about the I/C condensate issues, but I'm not convinced that's the problem I'm having. If you've got some further insight I'm open, but I'm trying to run the "most to least probable" diagnostic path to find my resolution. I'm grateful for the community's assistance and welcome enlightenment if I'm missing something in my logic.

Quote from: sholxgt on June 20, 2016, 06:24:31 PM

Quote from: 93Cobra on June 20, 2016, 03:41:17 PM
A cheap and easy test is to swap in new sp534 spark plugs. I would be willing to bet you have a condensate induced misfire from buildup in the intercooler.

Are you starting a theory that condensate causes low fuel pressure and that condensate only affects cylinder #1?

Okay. got the coil and plug out in #1. Of course it had to be the cylinder with the most crap in the way. (#1 is firewall side passenger-most cylinder, right?) First, some good news, coil pack was bone dry. Plug came out easily, did smell a bit of fuel. I haven't started the car since the video I took about 5-6 hours ago. Pics attached. I haven't diagnosed a DI engine via plug health yet and I welcome your input. Thanks!

Plugs are Motorcraft CYFS12YT3. Are those OE or did previous owner have the wrong plugs put in trying to chase this issue down before?

EDIT: The plug I pulled was gapped between .030 and .034.

I had to look at my plug box to figure out that CYFS-12Y-T3 is the number for the SP-534.  Those are the correct factory plugs for a 2014.

The plug doesn't look bad, but the fuel smell is curious.  I see some discoloration on the ceramic part, but I don't know if that's enough for any kind of concern.  As I said, these modern ignitions systems do a good job of cleaning up any mess that would normally make reading the plug more valuable.

Can your scan tool provide the fuel pressure that the low pressure pump is providing?

Unfortunately my hardware Scan Tool kinda stops around '07 and gives me limited information about the SHO in the data stream, however I do have Torque Pro. If the LPFP pressure output data is available on the CAN bus I can probably get it. Has anyone accomplished that or do I need to do some digging?

Maybe I'm overly sensitive to the fuel smell? Maybe something is saturated from a poor spray pattern due to insufficient input pressure?

Quote from: sholxgt on June 20, 2016, 07:14:01 PM
I had to look at my plug box to figure out that CYFS-12Y-T3 is the number for the SP-534.  Those are the correct factory plugs for a 2014.

The plug doesn't look bad, but the fuel smell is curious.  I see some discoloration on the ceramic part, but I don't know if that's enough for any kind of concern.  As I said, these modern ignitions systems do a good job of cleaning up any mess that would normally make reading the plug more valuable.

Can your scan tool provide the fuel pressure that the low pressure pump is providing?

There eill always be a big of fuel smell, should be less on DI than PFi engines tho.  Plug does look ok, and proper Gap, do guessing plugs are near new.

You can monitor the builtin pids via torque pro and add custom pids from this thread:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html)

Check for pooling oil in intake tuning, split/loose hoses, etc.  Also clean both MAP sensors thoroughly with MAF cleaner.

I still think the FPCM and fuel injector are most likely culprits, but check the wiring and connectors to the FPCM thoroughly for damage or rust.

Quote from: sholxgt on June 20, 2016, 06:24:31 PM

Quote from: 93Cobra on June 20, 2016, 03:41:17 PM
A cheap and easy test is to swap in new sp534 spark plugs. I would be willing to bet you have a condensate induced misfire from buildup in the intercooler.

Are you starting a theory that condensate causes low fuel pressure and that condensate only affects cylinder #1?

What I am stating is that under boost, the condensate gets blown through and blows out spark. When that happens, you get the obvious misfire, and raw fuel in there. The fuel gets passed through exhaust track. If left unaddressed, you will melt your cats and foul O2 sensors. This happens all the time on the f150. When they get the misfires, O2 sensors and cats are the next to fail.

Interesting...i log misfires everytime i log...ive never seen one.....stock plugs 18 psi of boost and factory oil seperator....im starting to think the sho is different than an f150....wait...it......is...seems the sho isnt afflicted with this condensate problem

It still is an issue.... Not at the same rate as the f150 since the intercooler location in the transverse version is much less effective than the f150. Thankfully, I no longer have any misfires and now have a fairly reliable engine. Still going to unload it once it is out of powertrain warranty.

@SHOdded,

This is the lines I'm thinking on. Would you suspect the FPCM even though I'm only getting reports of misfire in one cylinder? If so, I'll start there.

I'll pickup some MAF cleaner tomorrow.

At some point I've got to start throwing parts at it. I'm inclined to start with either the FPCM or the Injector based on what we've discussed here.

In terms of Torque Pro and the PIDs for fuel pressure, should I just load up the Fuel Pressure Desired vs. Fuel Pressure Actual and see if there's a variance? There's also some injector fault PIDs, but not sure how reliable they are.

Thanks for all the help.

Quote from: SHOdded on June 20, 2016, 07:47:50 PM
There eill always be a big of fuel smell, should be less on DI than PFi engines tho.  Plug does look ok, and proper Gap, do guessing plugs are near new.

You can monitor the builtin pids via torque pro and add custom pids from this thread:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html)

Check for pooling oil in intake tuning, split/loose hoses, etc.  Also clean both MAP sensors thoroughly with MAF cleaner.

I still think the FPCM and fuel injector are most likely culprits, but check the wiring and connectors to the FPCM thoroughly for damage or rust.

Only because of the P0087 code that I am worried about the FPCM.  That will leave you stranded eventually, but again, first check the connector at the FPCM.  Just may need cleaning & "lubing" with dielectric grease.

It's a bit of work to get at the injector, but I thought I posted the steps somewhere ...

Not sure exactly which PIDs are available in TPro for DI engines (I do not have access to one).  I am sure FoMoCo or EcoBoostSHO would know for sure.  Try the FPD and FPA and see what numbers it gives you, not sure if that pulls the LPFP or HPFP numbers.  Also Fuel Pump Duty Cycle if you see it.  Injector Fault, it may help it may not.

Also get familiar with the Motorcraft OBD Manual for 2014, it will show you the various threshholds the PCM (stock) looks at to make decisions about codes.
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf)

Quote from: SHOdded on June 21, 2016, 01:31:48 AM
Only because of the P0087 code that I am worried about the FPCM.  That will leave you stranded eventually, but again, first check the connector at the FPCM.  Just may need cleaning & "lubing" with dielectric grease.

It's a bit of work to get at the injector, but I thought I posted the steps somewhere ...

Not sure exactly which PIDs are available in TPro for DI engines (I do not have access to one).  I am sure FoMoCo or EcoBoostSHO would know for sure.  Try the FPD and FPA and see what numbers it gives you, not sure if that pulls the LPFP or HPFP numbers.  Also Fuel Pump Duty Cycle if you see it.  Injector Fault, it may help it may not.

Also get familiar with the Motorcraft OBD Manual for 2014, it will show you the various threshholds the PCM (stock) looks at to make decisions about codes.
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf)

Off the top of my head...

Desired HPFP pressure
Actual Fuel Rail Pressure
HPFP rail pressure sensor voltage
LPFP Pressure
LPFP duty cycle
LPFP sensor voltage

I think the only way to see injector info is DMRs which Torque (and sct) do not support, anything listed in torque doesn't work, at least for me.

I'm going to check this when I get home from work. Is this unit located under the rear seats? Accessible from the inside? I've done a bit of search and Googling and I can't find a definitive answer, except it's location on a F-150. The diagrams on Ford Parts, eBay, and Tasca aren't brilliant.

I've ordered a few parts and have them in route. If I don't need them, at least I've got spares of things that commonly fail. I'm well under the cost of a trip to the dealer, so as long as it doesn't turn out to be something like a cracked piston, I'm in good shape. LOL.

Thanks!

Quote from: SHOdded on June 21, 2016, 01:31:48 AM
Only because of the P0087 code that I am worried about the FPCM.  That will leave you stranded eventually, but again, first check the connector at the FPCM.  Just may need cleaning & "lubing" with dielectric grease.

Found the FPCM, connector looked good and clean, reseated it, still have same issue. I've got an FPCM, an LPFP, injector, and fuel rail o-ring set on the way. All together the parts cost less than a trip to the dealer, even after I throw a set of plugs and an oil change at it. Even if they're not all broke I'll have good parts on hand in the event of a future failure.

While playing around with Torque Pro this afternoon monitoring the items suggested, the car did start to puff out some significant white smoke (but it died down). I was initially very concerned as the symptoms initially onset as soon as I throttled up to pass someone on the highway, but the smoke smells like pure fuel and after some quick searching on the forums, it appears that's fairly indicative of an injector. Racingmason23, Tomc612, and FO SHO all had the exact same issue it seems. Here's to hoping it's a simple repair.

Thanks everyone for the help, I'll post up once the parts arrive and I can mess with it. I'll probably swap the FPCM first and see where that takes me, but I think injector is second on my list and my likely culprit.

Here's a quick video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpyaiPmQILw) of Torque Pro with the car idling while misfiring today, the smoke died down almost completely by the time I took this.

I think the best course of action is to stop screwing with it before I damage something and wait for my bits to arrive. Hopefully in time for the weekend.

Again, thanks for all the help from everyone. Definitely makes this less stressful.

If you can, add trims to that screen so we can see those too while it smokes. Saw some pretty low pressure on the HPFP and I'm wondering if that's when an injector is sticking open and trying to compensate. If it's an injector, we should be able to narrow down the bank with the trims.

I can do that tomorrow. Need both long and short term, or just short term?

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 21, 2016, 11:29:35 PM
If you can, add trims to that screen so we can see those too while it smokes. Saw some pretty low pressure on the HPFP and I'm wondering if that's when an injector is sticking open and trying to compensate. If it's an injector, we should be able to narrow down the bank with the trims.

Quote from: Deebeaux on June 21, 2016, 11:31:42 PM
I can do that tomorrow. Need both long and short term, or just short term?

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 21, 2016, 11:29:35 PM
If you can, add trims to that screen so we can see those too while it smokes. Saw some pretty low pressure on the HPFP and I'm wondering if that's when an injector is sticking open and trying to compensate. If it's an injector, we should be able to narrow down the bank with the trims.

Both please.

You can never have too much data....

My kinda answer! I've got a new screen setup in my Torque Pro phone with all the data, I'll try to give it a go in the morning, if not I'll definitely do it at lunch time and post another video. Thanks!

Is there a preferred diag tool besides Torque Pro? I've got manufacturer specific for the other cars (Techstream for the Toyota, VAG-COM for the VW) and wouldn't mind picking up something for the Ford if there's something out there.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 21, 2016, 11:33:28 PM

Quote from: Deebeaux on June 21, 2016, 11:31:42 PM
I can do that tomorrow. Need both long and short term, or just short term?

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 21, 2016, 11:29:35 PM
If you can, add trims to that screen so we can see those too while it smokes. Saw some pretty low pressure on the HPFP and I'm wondering if that's when an injector is sticking open and trying to compensate. If it's an injector, we should be able to narrow down the bank with the trims.

Both please.

You can never have too much data....

The last couple days have been crazy, just getting around to posting the requested videos.

This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAbUd5HQ0hs) was taken after 24hrs of sitting, cold start, and I let it idle until I heard some noises in the back. Turns out it was just some tools I Had on the back seat from removing the FPCM and checking that slid off. Was just a metal on metal noise so I shut things down instantly. Haha.

I took this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bczq-LKZumw) right after the restart, but my camera locked up in the middle of it. Not really sure if it's useful or not.

...and for whatever reason, I took a third video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6r-ip6SbqE), while the car was still idling from the 2nd video and let it run a bit.

I've got an injector, o-ring kit, FPCM, and LPFP on the way. Hopefully one or all of those fixes it. Unless it's something terrible and I need a bottom end. :/

Thanks!

Looks like it was pulling lots of fuel and I assume when the cel came on it went to a limp home map which is why you had no trim data.

Do you have the OBD troubleshooting guide for your year?

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf)

I couldn't get it to open, let me know if you have an issue, I have it backed up somewhere if not.

Methinks we should sticky these in the troubleshooting section.....

On Android Google PDF viewer works

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: Gjkrisa on June 24, 2016, 06:21:42 PM
On Android Google PDF viewer works

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Great document. On iPhone it just opens in a new browser window and then I saved it to iBooks which synced it automatically to all of my devices... Back to the OPs problem...

I do have it, thanks. Someone linked me to it earlier and I searched around in it for the P0087 and the P00C6 seem to point to the HPFP or LPFP typically, but the low rail pressure could be caused by an injector stuck open. Not super clear on how I can determine if an injector is stuck open without just changing it an seeing what happens.

From what I can determine by reading the linked document is the P0087 and P00C6 codes are indicated of insufficient feed pressure to the fuel rail, and the sensors involved are the FLI (fuel level input), FRP (fuel rail pressure), FVR (fuel volume regulator, solenoid on HPFP), and Lift Pump (LPFP). I'm still leaning toward injector as my problem is a single cylinder and I've found three other forum references to the same symptoms and injector was at fault. I think a stuck open injector is plausible to cause low rail pressure if the fault is extreme enough.

The parts I ordered (injector, LPFP, and FPCM) will all be here Wednesday. I'll try swapping the FPCM first, but if that doesn't do the trick I think the injector on cylinder #1 is my next best guess in terms of throwing pars at it. If all three of those parts don't fix it, I suspect a compress test is in order before ordering a HPFP.

Any insight is openly welcomed. Thanks to everyone in this thread. I couldn't have asked for a better welcome to the EBPF community.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 24, 2016, 06:06:58 PM
Do you have the OBD troubleshooting guide for your year?

Sorry a bit late to the SHO.  Z      https://dochub.com[EDIT] Wiring schematics for ya later.

Ugh. Parts delayed a day. UPS truck had "mechanical difficulties" which caused the delay. Don't worry, the irony is not lost on me. Hopefully this weekend I can get her back on the road. Moved it around back today to have a good place to work on it, startup is unchanged with the white smoke and misfire and a SUPER strong smell of fuel. I keep checking under the car for a Niagara Falls of fuel coming out. LOL.

Hopefully this weekend I can dig into it more. Thanks again to everyone for the help, here's to some progress on this long holiday weekend.

LOL!  Hope the weekend is much kinder to you than UPS has been :)

UPS delivered. So far, it's NOT the FPCM. Swapped it, problem persists. Dinner and then on to the next likely item, which I'm taking a stab at the injector next, unless someone thinks something else should be tried first.

no easy fix :(  better be the injector ...  take pics of the removal/install if you dont mind.  Noones documented yet.

Well, I really hope it's the injector. If it's not, it's probably bottom end, which I'm really not in the mood for.

I'll snap some good pics and post them up when done.

Cylinder #1 is in the bank closet to the firewall closed to the passenger side, correct? (I've confirmed that a few times, but want to make sure before I do something really stupid. Lol.

If I decide to run a compression test, what's the best way to prevent the car from firing when starting? Unplugging all the coils?

correct.3 would be opposite/driver side on rear bank.

On most cars, pulling the fuel pump fuse/relay prevents starting the engine.  Let me check.

I think you can floor the throttle and push the start button and it will just crank. Will turn over as long as you push start button. Just release start button prior to letting off throttle.

Best to let SHOdded confirm :)

I know polskifacet (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=1885) did a compression test recently, maybe you should PM him?  But sholxgt's method is kind of the same.  Per the manual, you should definitely remove the spark plugs though.  Flooring the accelerator will cut off the fuel injectors while cranking, but I do prefer pulling the fuel pump fuse for safety reasons.  Can't verify if fuse pulling works here though.

Here's the "official" Ford procedure...

Compression Test

• Make sure the oil in the crankcase is of the correct viscosity and at the correct level and that the battery is correctly charged.
• Operate the vehicle until the engine is at normal operating temperature.
• Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position, then remove all the spark plugs.
• Set the throttle plates in the wide-open position.
• Install a compression gauge in the No. 1 cylinder.
• Install an auxiliary starter switch in the starting circuit. With the ignition switch in the OFF position, and using the auxiliary starter switch, crank the engine a minimum of 5 compression strokes and record the highest reading. Note the approximate number of compression strokes necessary to obtain the highest reading.
• Repeat the test on each cylinder, cranking the engine approximately the same number of compression strokes.

I'll pull fuse and FPCM plug as well, just to be safe. I don't have an auxiliary switch hanging around so I'll have to have a buddy toggle the start button.

Has anyone tried to activate the fuel cut off switch!!!!From owner's manual.  FUEL CUTOFF SWITCH WARNING: Failure to inspect and if necessary repair fuel leaks
after a collision may increase the risk of fire and serious injury.
Ford Motor Company recommends that the fuel system be inspected by
an authorized dealer after any collision.
In the event of a moderate to severe collision, this vehicle is equipped
with a fuel pump shut-off feature that stops the flow of fuel to the
engine. Not every impact will cause a shut-off.
Should your vehicle shut off after a collision, you may restart your
vehicle by doing the following:
1. Turn the ignition off.
2. Turn the ignition on.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 to re-enable fuel pump.
Note: If your vehicle has the push button start system, press the
stop/start button twice to reactivate the fuel system.  Z

Well, I opted to do the compression test first since the issue was originally caused by a full throttle pull on the Interstate. With my usual luck this typically means something catastrophic happened.

I'll say this first. Getting this car NOT to fire up is quite the challenge. I idled the car (roughly I might add) until it got to normal operating temp. Then I removed the fuel pump/fuel injector fuse (according to my manual) and she still fired up and idled for longer than I'd suspect was just "fuel in the lines." After disconnecting nearly one by one the "fuel pump ultra relay," FPCM, LPFP, and HPFP it would still fire and idle for a second or so and then die. After getting it to that point I felt that was good enough to not have fuel messing with my compression results...

After all that, I wasn't able to locate my compression tester which necessitated a trip to the store to buy a new one. Without further adieu, the results are...

#1 180psi
#2 182psi
#3 182psi
#4 180psi
#5 178psi
#6 179psi

All these results were obtained with an engine as close to normal operating temps as possible, about 5-6 seconds of cranking per cylinder, and on presumably dry cylinders. So, the good news is, it doesn't look like my bottom end is knackered (or top end either I suppose.) Tomorrow I'm going to attempt to take a half day and get started on the fuel injector swap. I'll be sure to take pics and document the best I can and post up.

Another curious finding. The "fuel pump ultra relay" had a chip/ding missing out of it. I couldn't tell if it was because someone removed it previously or if it was damaged heat wise. Because of this I replaced my FPCM anyway in case there was some voltage drop or similar in the original one causing an over current condition on this relay. Hopefully the dealer stocks those guys and I can pick one up tomorrow. (I need to go by for some orange coolant anyway.) Thankfully the A/C Clutch relay is the same part and I was able to swap it in for testing. Replacing it alone didn't alleviate my issue (which I tried before the compression test.)

Stay tuned for the next chapter...

Nice work!  Big load off :)

Do you have pics of the ultra relay as it was before you swapped it, and/or closeups of the ultra relay itself?  This is #15 in the power distribution/BJB right?  And the AC relay you swapped with is #98?

Yes, the ultra relay was #15 and I swapped with #98 temporarily. I don't have any pics from before I pulled it, but I did note that the words were upright as if the passenger side of the car was the "bottom." If that makes sense. The "FoMoCo" was closest to the driver's side of the car.

Attached is a pic after I removed it. The plastic casing was additionally damaged in the removal, but the part that was already visibly damaged was the notch just below and to the slight left of the "J" in "Japan." The cracks that extend to the edges of the casing were created upon removal. I'll try to dissect it later for a postmortem if I can. , but I suspect it's solid state and not mechanical so it's probably full of goop to prevent vibration damage. UPDATE: It's not solid state, it's mechanical. I'll take it the rest of the way apart and post pics after I get a replacement (hopefully today.)

Seeing excellent compression was a huge load off. I can tackle this with much greater optimism now. In hindsight I should've just tackled the injector, but the whole time I'd be thinking about a cracked piston/ringland in #1 and I'd be angry if I did the injector job and was still fighting the same issue because of serious mechanical failure.

It looks like I need some more bits before I can tackle the injector. I need an intake manifold gasket, a coolant crossover gasket, and a thermostat housing gasket. I'm going to see what the dealers here have in stock today and pickup what I can. Being the car is low mileage-ish those gaskets are probably in good nick and reusable, but they're probably not expensive to replace and I'd rather be safe than sorry.

If all this ends well I may treat myself to some Livernois treatment. It's about time she went on a 93 tune.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 01, 2016, 01:29:35 AM
Nice work!  Big load off :)

Do you have pics of the ultra relay as it was before you swapped it, and/or closeups of the ultra relay itself?  This is #15 in the power distribution/BJB right?  And the AC relay you swapped with is #98?

Sounds like a plan!

Well, it's been nearly two days of work, but she's back together, I fired her up briefly, and once the rails primed she idled smoothly. Was a slight puff of smoke, but I am guessing that was due to the unprimed rails. I couldn't leave it running as I haven't refilled the coolant yet.

I need to refill with coolant for more testing. I'm confident the problem was the injector, but I'm not 100% sure it's 100% fixed yet. The procedure for replacement calls for a few special tools that I did my best without and the fuel rail hasn't been tested to full pressure yet. 300-400psi at idle pales in comparison of what the Teflon seal on the injector body will experience under full load.

I took a variety of videos throughout, which I will edit and post up later, that basically just offer tips I experienced when deviating from the "Ford official" instructions.

Some notes, this job sucks. I guess in the grand scheme of things, I've done much worse and if I had to do it again, I could do it in a third of the time at least. It's hard learning as you go. The injectors are "pressed" into the cylinder head via the bolts on the fuel rail. There are Teflon seals on the shaft of the injector that are one-time use. I got lucky when pulling my rail that the two injectors I didn't need to touch stayed in the head. These seals require a special "arbor" from Ford/Rotunda to stretch and place them onto the injector body. Thankfully new injectors come with them. TBH, if another injector fails, I am just going to change all 6. The reassembly procedure wants you to pull all the injectors and install them into the fuel rail and install that into the cylinder head as one piece. In order to preserve the two seals on #2 and #3 in my case, I didn't reinstall in this manner. Whether that was a good idea or not remains to be seen.

Rain just started and I need to go pickup outside, but I'll report more later. Thanks everyone for their insight.

Hope you got it fixed and THANKS for sharing with the community!

I really hope so too, but I'm fully expecting some sort of fuel leak or coolant leak before this is all over. Here's to hoping there isn't! Haha.

Quote from: sholxgt on July 04, 2016, 01:51:17 PM
Hope you got it fixed and THANKS for sharing with the community!

How did you figure out which injector was causing the issue?

P0301. Cylinder #1 misfire. I presumed it was that cylinder. Didn't have anything else to go on, went with best semi-educated guess.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 04, 2016, 01:57:46 PM
How did you figure out which injector was causing the issue?

Good luck, hopefully she'll be back up and running to full strength soon.


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Good luck, hope the repair holds up!  Field tested field approved LOL

Initially she fired up and idled without much to talk about, but then it started to smoke pretty bad, but then it cleared up nearly 100%, but not quite.

I hear a hissing, something like an air/vacuum leak around PCV/AOS EVAP purge the PCV valve inlet on the AOS attached to the rear valve cover on the passenger side. The leak seems to be coming from the quick disconnect on the AOS EVAP purge PCV valve side coming from the intake manifold. (I had to find this by shoving a vacuum hose in my ear and probing around.)

I've also got a fault of P2198 (O2 Stuck Rich B2S1) and a pending fault of P2196 of O2 stuck rich B1S1. Sounds like she had more than one problem before all this started. Going to see if I can overcome this AOS EVAP purge PCV valve leak first, but not sure if it's enough of a leak to get things stuck rich. If it helps, I heard this hissing on the side of the road when the initial problem occurred, I just didn't have anything with me to MacGyver up a stethoscope on the side of the highway.

I've got some videos that are uploading now and I'll make a follow up post when they do. I also wonder if I've also got some bad gas that may have assisted in the demise of an already ill injector. I'll probably find the best way to pump all this out and set fire to it while celebrating my independence today. (In a safe, controlled manner, of course.)

I will say the problem is MUCH better as the car idles and revs smooth, but it's not 100% yet.

EDIT: Also, the super rich fuel smell is gone. Before the smell of raw fuel was so bad you'd cough/choke on it. Now it just smells a little rich.

EDIT2: I incorrectly identified a part as some sort of AOS, but I it appers it's really part of the EVAP system as I discovered here. (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,1980.msg26872.html) I'm hoping this could be part of my rich codes. I've updated my original post accordingly.

EDIT3: Seems like it really is a PCV valve and AOS combo. At least according to #9 and #10 on TASCA's page (http://www.tascaparts.com/auto-parts/2014/ford/taurus/sho-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/emission-system-cat/emission-components-scat). I'm going to replace the valve and the hose going to it, which can be found on the same page above, it's #11.

Videos forthcoming.

AOS being Air Oil Separator?  Is there any grime or oily mess built up in the area around the PCV valve? 

You may have to clear the codes and try again next time you restart (after the PCV valve replacement).  Then check the EVAP purge cycle and fuel trims.

Videos as promised..

First video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNG0FLJcJlc).

• I shot a couple videos before this of more of the smoke, but that's mostly gone now and they likely don't provide any useful info. I presume the smoke could have been excess condensate in the exhaust, maybe fuel in the catalysts from the leaky injector previously? This has some torque info in it.
• I was unaware there were any pending faults when I started this video. The P2196 turned into a current fault shortly after taking this video while idling the car to find the sound of the vacuum leam.
• I say "bank 1 and bank 2 both sensors" in the video, but I meant both front sensors/sensor #1s, not all (pre and post) sensors.
• I refer to seeing oil around the turbocharger outlet on the rear turbo. There was a small layer of oil reside and dirt in it on the exterior of the pipe around the hose clamp and the joint between the plastic and flexible rubber section. Almost as if oil seeps out of that seam and coats the pipe and then dirt/dust/etc... sticks to it. I doubt the pipe is leaking under vacuum, it might under boost, I'll keep an eye on it and replace otherwise.
• There's a pile of historic codes in the video, as I say in the video, I had to unplug nearly every fuel system module to try and crank the car without it spaying fuel to do the compression test. These are likely as a result of that and has not reappeared.
• I didn't mention in the video, but the car starts nearly instantly when asking it to now. Before changing the injector it was a struggle to start.

Second video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UfdlP9TohI)

• I cleared codes before starting and before filming this video, fuel trims appear different than first video.
• I say leaking, by that I mean vacuum leak, hissing noise.
• In terms of appropriate parts, I plan on just changing the valve and the hose, not the AOS itself.

Yes, AOS = Air Oil Separator.

There's no mess near the PCV valve or the AOS, but using my homemade mechanic's stethoscope (vacuum hose and an ear) there is definitely a huge hiss coming from around the quick disconnect connector on the PCV valve, and where the PCV valve meets the AOS. That might just be an o-ring, but the valve is cheap enough to just change.

It's silly it's this stupid quick disconnect with some sort of PTFE or similar seal in it and not just a molded rubber hose with a couple clamps. That'd last decades without leaking.

What should I be looking for in terms of EVAP purge cycle? I haven't checked that valve for failure yet, but I understand it's prone to it. I'll do a check while I'm out there picking up from the last couple day's adventures.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 04, 2016, 05:33:34 PM
AOS being Air Oil Separator?  Is there any grime or oily mess built up in the area around the PCV valve? 

You may have to clear the codes and try again next time you restart (after the PCV valve replacement).  Then check the EVAP purge cycle and fuel trims.

Basically matching up the purge cycle to fuel trims.  Another source/culprit to check if you notice the car running rich.  Not sure how the data shows up for these DI engines, but on my NA Edge, there is a PID called EVAP_PCT that shows you the EVAP cycling in and out.

http://obdcon.sourceforge.net/2010/06/interpreting-generic-obd-ii-scan-data/ (http://obdcon.sourceforge.net/2010/06/interpreting-generic-obd-ii-scan-data/)

QuoteEVAP PURGE = EVAP_PCT: This parameter is displayed as a percentage and is normalized for all types of purge systems. EVAP Purge Control commanded OFF will display 0% and EVAP Purge Control commanded fully open will display 100%. This is an important parameter to check if the vehicle is having fuel trim problems. Fuel trim readings may be abnormal, due to normal purge operation. To eliminate EVAP Purge as a potential contributor to a fuel trim problem, block the purge valve inlet to the intake manifold, then recheck fuel trim.

I am just starting to dig into this myself, so there is a learning curve ahead of me :)

Quote from: SHOdded on July 04, 2016, 06:47:19 PM
Basically matching up the purge cycle to fuel trims.  Another source/culprit to check if you notice the car running rich.  Not sure how the data shows up for these DI engines, but on my NA Edge, there is a PID called EVAP_PCT that shows you the EVAP cycling in and out.

http://obdcon.sourceforge.net/2010/06/interpreting-generic-obd-ii-scan-data/ (http://obdcon.sourceforge.net/2010/06/interpreting-generic-obd-ii-scan-data/)
EVAP PURGE = EVAP_PCT: This parameter is displayed as a percentage and is normalized for all types of purge systems. EVAP Purge Control commanded OFF will display 0% and EVAP Purge Control commanded fully open will display 100%. This is an important parameter to check if the vehicle is having fuel trim problems. Fuel trim readings may be abnormal, due to normal purge operation. To eliminate EVAP Purge as a potential contributor to a fuel trim problem, block the purge valve inlet to the intake manifold, then recheck fuel trim.

I am just starting to dig into this myself, so there is a learning curve ahead of me :)

Wow that's some good well written material!

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That link has some more great info

Yea I was commenting in the link actually

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Excellent link! Once the vacuum leak on the PCV is solved, I'll continue diagnostics. The parts should arrive tomorrow morning and I'll pick them up at lunch. I'm hoping my remaining issue is solved with that or something with EVAP. I don't know if I'm in the mood to pull the intake manifold again.

After doing some research it appears many respectable folks recommend fuel system treatment (BG44K, Techron Concentrate, etc...) at regular intervals to ensure fuel system/injector health. I've searched and read a few posts, but would like to hear folks' comments on that.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 04, 2016, 06:47:19 PM
Basically matching up the purge cycle to fuel trims.  Another source/culprit to check if you notice the car running rich.  Not sure how the data shows up for these DI engines, but on my NA Edge, there is a PID called EVAP_PCT that shows you the EVAP cycling in and out.

http://obdcon.sourceforge.net/2010/06/interpreting-generic-obd-ii-scan-data/ (http://obdcon.sourceforge.net/2010/06/interpreting-generic-obd-ii-scan-data/)

QuoteEVAP PURGE = EVAP_PCT: This parameter is displayed as a percentage and is normalized for all types of purge systems. EVAP Purge Control commanded OFF will display 0% and EVAP Purge Control commanded fully open will display 100%. This is an important parameter to check if the vehicle is having fuel trim problems. Fuel trim readings may be abnormal, due to normal purge operation. To eliminate EVAP Purge as a potential contributor to a fuel trim problem, block the purge valve inlet to the intake manifold, then recheck fuel trim.

I am just starting to dig into this myself, so there is a learning curve ahead of me :)

I have tried many of those fuel system cleaners and certainly the BBK fuel cleaner made especially for Direct injection to be a great product...also the Chevron techron cleaner is a very good fuel system cleaner which is half the price.  Z

Seafoam is also another great one proof from Chris fix on YouTube
My plane is every 3000 miles intake cleaner and gas additive.

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I'm considering just making fuel system treatment part of my regular maintenance. Maybe every oil change or similar interval. Catch can is definitely coming next and likely meth injection, just enough to keep the intake valves clean. My end game for this car was simply downpipes, a 93 tune, and now the catch can and meth injection. It's my daily and road trip car, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun!

Quote from: ZSHO on July 05, 2016, 01:23:12 PM
I have tried many of those fuel system cleaners and certainly the BBK cleaner made especially for Direct injection to be a great product...also the Chevron techron is another quality cleaner to good also and much cheaper.  Z

I've used Seafoam in the past and I'm okay with the product they make, but in these cars I'd only even consider an in-tank fuel system treatment. Oil treatments aren't typically recommended/healthy for turbochargers, and induction services are also linked to turbocharger deaths on more than one GTDI engine. Not sure which Seafoam treatment method you're referring to. Glad to see another Chris Fix fan. He's got some excellent videos.

Quote from: Gjkrisa on July 05, 2016, 01:33:12 PM
Seafoam is also another great one proof from Chris fix on YouTube

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Agreed wasn't thinking about oil additive definitely wouldn't want one Ford says there way of helping the back of the vales is using a inductive cleaner.
Because of the fuel additive videos I started watching chris fix the way he went about it was very good. I'm excited for his drift car videos

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Unless something has changed, Ford does not approve of induction services on the Ecoboost. At least according to FordTechMakuloco on this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irwbwpuEbQ) via his YouTube channel. You can skip to 3:21 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irwbwpuEbQ&t=3m21s) to where he talks about induction services.

Quote from: Gjkrisa on July 05, 2016, 01:50:13 PM
Agreed wasn't thinking about oil additive definitely wouldn't want one Ford says there way of helping the back of the vales is using a inductive cleaner.
Because of the fuel additive videos I started watching chris fix the way he went about it was very good. I'm excited for his drift car videos

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and FordTechMauloco has also recommended used of a good catch can to cut down on the PCV emissions that end up coking the back of the intake valves.  Methanol injection (probably nitrous also) is so far the best way to get a continous cleaning. 

Induction services should be done if at all on a regular basis as a preventive rather than a curative method.  Borescoping before induction service should be used as a verification step.

I'm definitely ordering a catch can in the very near future. Looking at the UPR one. I used to have an account with them years ago, but unsure if I can still get any discounts. Otherwise open to suggestions of recommended catch cans.

Water/Meth seems like an excellent way to keep it clean all the time and not have to worry about needing future induction cleanings. In the VW TDI world, a lot of us run meth injection to keep the build up from clogging the intake nearly 100% with soot. As both are TDI platforms, I can imagine it works just as well in the Ecoboost world. There's also some performance benefits to be had along with continually performing preventative maintenance on your engine. Boosting becomes maintenance! I like this idea.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 05, 2016, 02:36:19 PM
and FordTechMauloco has also recommended used of a good catch can to cut down on the PCV emissions that end up coking the back of the intake valves.  Methanol injection (probably nitrous also) is so far the best way to get a continous cleaning. 

Induction services should be done if at all on a regular basis as a preventive rather than a curative method.  Borescoping before induction service should be used as a verification step.

Quote from: Deebeaux on July 05, 2016, 01:58:49 PM
Unless something has changed, Ford does not approve of induction services on the Ecoboost. At least according to FordTechMakuloco on this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irwbwpuEbQ) via his YouTube channel. You can skip to 3:21 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0irwbwpuEbQ&t=3m21s) to where he talks about induction services.

Quote from: Gjkrisa on July 05, 2016, 01:50:13 PM
Agreed wasn't thinking about oil additive definitely wouldn't want one Ford says there way of helping the back of the vales is using a inductive cleaner.
Because of the fuel additive videos I started watching chris fix the way he went about it was very good. I'm excited for his drift car videos

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Odd I must of hears what I wanted to here I thought in that video he said for was recommending it on service but I'd be doing it before issues.

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I replaced PCV valve and the vent tube connecting valve to the intake manifold with brand new Ford OEM parts. The real kicker is I still hear a hiss when listening with a vacuum hose "stethoscope". It's definitely much less of a leak than before, but it still sounds like a leak to me. My UPR catch can setup is on the way which would eliminate this stupid hose, but I'm not sure why the new OEM hose still appears to leak at vacuum. I suspect it also leaks under boost as well, but it'd take Evil Knievel to test that theory. I'd like to get this issue 100% sorted before changing anything (tune, catch can, meth, etc...)

I took a video of the fuel trims and me rambling on a bit, you can see that here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXK5bbznIgs). I apologize for the vertical video, the way I've got the Torque phone propped up fries my brain and I feel like I have to hold my iPhone that way too.

The LTFT1 seems stuck at 10.9% throughout my last few videos. Unsure why. They were both 10.9%, but LTFT2 is now 0.0%. The I let the car idle a bit, but didn't drive it, I still have air in my cooling system that I need to sort out, and I was home on my lunch break. Unsure if it's "safe" to drive. Is there a proper way to reset this besides clearing the codes at idle?

Any chance this could be bad gas as well? Maybe I got a bad tank and it put a unhappy injector into full failure and is causing this mess? I'm hesitant to assume that since my LTFT is only odd on a single bank. Any insight as to what to try next would be greatly appreciated.

The fuel trims are definitely not anywhere near where they should be on Bank 1 or Bank 2.  If you add the LT and ST readings for a Bank, both banks are running lean, mostly the same amount.  These readings are taken after the car has warmed up?  Any idea what the O2 readings looked like during this time?  You had installed new O2s (all 4), correct?  By any chance, were they not Motorcraft?

Not sure what the HPFP should put out when you rev in P/N, the highside pressure hardly changed when you revved to 1500 then 2500 rpm.

Bad gas should affect both banks the same.  You may want to get Forscan Lite to make sure there are no codes that Torque Pro has missed, erase them from there.

The car was not to full operating temperature yet. I had just idled it a bit after installing the new hosts. Should I fire it up again when I get home and get her up to normal operating temp? I need to mix some 50/50 and top off the coolant a bit before I do that.

Can't believe I missed adding the LT and ST on the banks to find out it was pretty even. I always over look the obvious stuff.

I have not replaced any O2 sensors yet. Do I need to? If I do, they will be all OEM.

I'll download Forscan Lite and give that a try when I get home.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 06, 2016, 04:56:23 PM
The fuel trims are definitely not anywhere near where they should be on Bank 1 or Bank 2.  If you add the LT and ST readings for a Bank, both banks are running lean, mostly the same amount.  These readings are taken after the car has warmed up?  Any idea what the O2 readings looked like during this time?  You had installed new O2s (all 4), correct?  By any chance, were they not Motorcraft?

Not sure what the HPFP should put out when you rev in P/N, the highside pressure hardly changed when you revved to 1500 then 2500 rpm.

Bad gas should affect both banks the same.  You may want to get Forscan Lite to make sure there are no codes that Torque Pro has missed, erase them from there.

Fuel trims are expected to be higher when first started, as the engine will use the last known LTs to run until the STs kick in.  Really shouldn't take very long at all, as the EB engines go into closed loop VERY quickly.  I start getting STs within 30 seconds (or less) on my NA Edge, so I expect the EB to be same or better.

Definitely top off the coolant first before running the engine next time.  You won't know if there are air bubbles that need taking care of until the car is at operating temp though.  If the weather is warm in LA, shouldn't take long to get up to temp.  Then you can "burp" the system if need be.  Monitor coolant temps to see how the car is doing while it is warming up, the stock thermostat is 180F, assuming that's what's in there now.  Should stay at/under 200F when warmed up.

Don't know if the O2s need replacing.  I am thinking maybe not given the vintage of the vehicle, but you have to be ready for that.  Monitor the O2 voltages and the lambda values after starting the car next time.  The front O2s are wideband, the rear O2s are narrowband, so they have different ranges.  If the widebands drop out completely, you know you have a problem there (sensor or wiring).  Prefer the rear narrowband O2s to be in the 0.45-0.6 range, then you know the cats are likely A-OK.

I wouldnt worry so much with fuel pressure...at idle and cruise its fairly low...i always see about 250....the pressure follows a table based on demanded fuel flow

When desired fuel flow rises then it follows a tables that has pressure schedule

10% ltft is really high...i would look for exhaust leaks before the primary o2 sensor

The nice thing about speed density and map based fuel tuning is even if you have a boost leak or a leak at the intake manifold you shouldnt see it in fuel trims because the air flow is metered at the manifold so intake leaks dont hurt you as much

First I'll clear the codes with Forscan Lite. Then I'll get the coolant topped off before firing it up. Even with it a little low it would cycle between about 188-203 with the ambient in the upper 90s when I got her back together. That's just idling in the driveway though and I did take up and down the street.

I'll set up a new Torque screen showing FTs and O2 data and film the startup when I do fire it up. I guess I can also run a data log for easier analysis too. I can't see the O2s being faulty because of age or mileage, but if they were damaged due to an injector spraying like mad, I can see that.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 06, 2016, 06:06:27 PM
Fuel trims are expected to be higher when first started, as the engine will use the last known LTs to run until the STs kick in.  Really shouldn't take very long at all, as the EB engines go into closed loop VERY quickly.  I start getting STs within 30 seconds (or less) on my NA Edge, so I expect the EB to be same or better.

Definitely top off the coolant first before running the engine next time.  You won't know if there are air bubbles that need taking care of until the car is at operating temp though.  If the weather is warm in LA, shouldn't take long to get up to temp.  Then you can "burp" the system if need be.  Monitor coolant temps to see how the car is doing while it is warming up, the stock thermostat is 180F, assuming that's what's in there now.  Should stay at/under 200F when warmed up.

Don't know if the O2s need replacing.  I am thinking maybe not given the vintage of the vehicle, but you have to be ready for that.  Monitor the O2 voltages and the lambda values after starting the car next time.  The front O2s are wideband, the rear O2s are narrowband, so they have different ranges.  If the widebands drop out completely, you know you have a problem there (sensor or wiring).  Prefer the rear narrowband O2s to be in the 0.45-0.6 range, then you know the cats are likely A-OK.

I'll look for exhaust leaks, but the car is bone stock and AFAIK the exhaust has never been off.

A set of cat-less down-pipes wouldn't hurt my feelings if my current cats are damaged, but we'll test and see.

I'm a huge fan of Speed Density tuning. I just switched my Toyota 86 w/turbo kit over to Speed Density from the stock system as tuning otherwise is more difficult. That engine has DI and PI, causing it to not be as plagued with some of the negative effects of pure DI. This does make tuning a little more interesting, a 4 cylinder with 8 fuel injectors, but who doesn't like a challenge? Those GT-R guys are upgrading to 12 injectors, so there's that!

Quote from: AJP turbo on July 06, 2016, 06:13:57 PM
I wouldnt worry so much with fuel pressure...at idle and cruise its fairly low...i always see about 250....the pressure follows a table based on demanded fuel flow

When desired fuel flow rises then it follows a tables that has pressure schedule

10% ltft is really high...i would look for exhaust leaks before the primary o2 sensor

The nice thing about speed density and map based fuel tuning is even if you have a boost leak or a leak at the intake manifold you shouldnt see it in fuel trims because the air flow is metered at the manifold so intake leaks dont hurt you as much

Thanks to both of you for the info. Hopefully I can get some more data tonight.

Trying to build a new Torque Pro screen, but I can't find data for the front O2s. There's AFR commanded/measured, there's Lambda commanded, and I've got voltaged for O2 B1S2 and B2S2, but nothing for S1 in either bank. I've loaded the CSV that was in the "Torque PIDs...Take 2 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=3141.0)" post, but still don't see values for the wideband sensors. Am I missing something?

I'll be out in the car trying to find this data until someone replies or I get hungry. :)

Thanks again!

Quote from: SHOdded on July 06, 2016, 06:06:27 PM
Monitor the O2 voltages and the lambda values after starting the car next time.  The front O2s are wideband, the rear O2s are narrowband, so they have different ranges.  If the widebands drop out completely, you know you have a problem there (sensor or wiring).  Prefer the rear narrowband O2s to be in the 0.45-0.6 range, then you know the cats are likely A-OK.

I think they have pids for wideband separately, will have to check.  Do you have O2 Sensor1 WideRange Voltage?  Might be B1S1.  Sensor2 might be B2S1.  Not sure ...

Look for equivalence ratio in the standard obd pids.

IIRC it is there for both banks.

Yeah, there is 02 EQ ratio for both banks and widerange voltage as well.

Even after doing resets in Torque Pro and Forscan Lite, my LTFT1 is still at 10.9% even before starting the car. It appears the only way to clear this is to clear adaptations using the desktop version of Forscan.

Is it necessary I reset this back to zero before data logging? I did some brief searching and it seems 50/50 whether or not resetting the adaptations is a good idea or not.

In Torque Pro "O2 Sensor1 Equivalence Ratio" doesn't produce anything, but "O2 Sensor1 Equivalence Ratio(alternate)" does.

Does anyone know a PID for the lambda on O2 Sensor2 as the default one provides "no data" for me? I've been doing some Googling/Forum Searching with no luck, but I will continue to dig. I presume since sensor 1 has an alternate PID, perhaps sensor 2 does as well?

FoMoCoSHO, I see you had a dual lambda gauge setup in OBDLINK that looks pretty slick, but I don't have one of their adapters.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 06, 2016, 08:24:54 PM
Yeah, there is 02 EQ ratio for both banks and widerange voltage as well.

I'm getting ready to head out for some logging with the new down pipes so I will take a peek and try to remember what pids I used.

I would reset everything so you can see how all your repairs are doing to this point

Dumb question, is your car out of warranty?

I'm charging my other laptop right now because the smaller one I use for car stuff, apparently, doesn't have Bluetooth! >:o

I'm hoping I can do the reset adaptations with the Forscan software in Windows.

Quote from: AJP turbo on July 06, 2016, 10:24:31 PM
I would reset everything so you can see how all your repairs are doing to this point

It's a 2014 with just shy of 33k, but it's out of warranty because it's a salvage/reconstruct/branded title. (At least that's what two dealer's have told me.) It had fresh water ingress that didn't do anything other than get the carpet wet. No water got into in the engine or other fluids, but all have been changed anyway. I have some suspicions it was even a flood car and someone may have just hosed it out to get out from under the note. It's an insurance auction car I got a steal on. I've had 7,000 miles of flawless service, right up until this injector fiasco.

The closest dealer I trust is 1.5 hours one way drive. The local dealer to me is absolutely terrible.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 06, 2016, 10:25:21 PM
Dumb question, is your car out of warranty?

Try the KAM reset as shown in this video instead of resetting adaptations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZAsoqmqhdM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZAsoqmqhdM)

I already did the adaptation reset and it cleared things out. I'll try the KAM reset as well. Then I'll go through the idle learning and electronic throttle body learning (nearly the same procedure) and then do a shift point learning drive.

Just waiting to find out how I can get that O2S2Eq PID working. I'll try to do some digging if we're slow at the office this morning. It seems a few are accessing it in OBDLINK, but I can't find a valid Torque PID for it. I've got O2S1Eq working using the "alternate" PID that's already in Torque.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 06, 2016, 11:30:19 PM
Try the KAM reset as shown in this video instead of resetting adaptations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZAsoqmqhdM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZAsoqmqhdM)

What V range or lambda range are you seeing with the O2S1Eq (I assume that's the lambda value)?  I know the guys behind Torque Pro have been messing around with the PIDs, not sure they are accurate/valid any more.  Best thing might be to ask on their forum.

Well, I didn't fire the car up as I was trying to get a good log/video of the initial startup after the reset of everything.

O2S1Eq is lambda, and shows 0.0 with the car off. The PID for O2S2Eq shows "no data" and it doesn't come up green like it's a valid PID. I think FoMoCoSHO has the PIDs working in OBDLINK and he may pass those on. I'll go check out the Torque forums and see what I can come up with.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 07, 2016, 09:52:29 AM
What V range or lambda range are you seeing with the O2S1Eq (I assume that's the lambda value)?  I know the guys behind Torque Pro have been messing around with the PIDs, not sure they are accurate/valid any more.  Best thing might be to ask on their forum.

Quote from: Deebeaux on July 07, 2016, 10:00:36 AM
Well, I didn't fire the car up as I was trying to get a good log/video of the initial startup after the reset of everything.

O2S1Eq is lambda, and shows 0.0 with the car off. The PID for O2S2Eq shows "no data" and it doesn't come up green like it's a valid PID. I think FoMoCoSHO has the PIDs working in OBDLINK and he may pass those on. I'll go check out the Torque forums and see what I can come up with.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 07, 2016, 09:52:29 AM
What V range or lambda range are you seeing with the O2S1Eq (I assume that's the lambda value)?  I know the guys behind Torque Pro have been messing around with the PIDs, not sure they are accurate/valid any more.  Best thing might be to ask on their forum.

The lambda pid is a standard obd2 pid and should work in Torque the same as obdlink, the problem on either program is there is no way to see the the formulas used for the built ins.

I will see if I can build it using standard obd2 formulas.

I do know that IAT2 was jacked up and when I fixed the formula, it works fine now.

Sounds good. The Torque forums are a disaster! I've tried to do some digging but work has kept me pretty occupied today. Taking a little break now because I'm waiting for 500GB of data to copy.

The "alternate" PID listed in Torque under the standard PIDs is working for me for O2S1Eq, but none of the other O2 Sensors in Torque Equivalence/Lambda have "alternate" PIDs. I tried digging around in Forscan last night but got too tired to be able to decipher it.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 07, 2016, 02:36:57 PM
The lambda pid is a standard obd2 pid and should work in Torque the same as obdlink, the problem on either program is there is no way to see the the formulas used for the built ins.

I will see if I can build it using standard obd2 formulas.

I do know that IAT2 was jacked up and when I fixed the formula, it works fine now.

Does forscan let you see all pids? Or is it like torque that it only sees what it knows I read a comment on forscan that be nice to add pid
Is forscan worth the money after buying torque pro?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: Deebeaux on July 07, 2016, 02:58:42 PM
Sounds good. The Torque forums are a disaster! I've tried to do some digging but work has kept me pretty occupied today. Taking a little break now because I'm waiting for 500GB of data to copy.

The "alternate" PID listed in Torque under the standard PIDs is working for me for O2S1Eq, but none of the other O2 Sensors in Torque Equivalence/Lambda have "alternate" PIDs. I tried digging around in Forscan last night but got too tired to be able to decipher it.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 07, 2016, 02:36:57 PM
The lambda pid is a standard obd2 pid and should work in Torque the same as obdlink, the problem on either program is there is no way to see the the formulas used for the built ins.

I will see if I can build it using standard obd2 formulas.

I do know that IAT2 was jacked up and when I fixed the formula, it works fine now.

Yeah, you need both banks to display and there are 2 different sets of O2 pids in the OBD standards list so I have  some work to do to figure it out. I'm gonna ask the guys over at scantool,net which formula they use because both banks work.

Forscan Lite (I'm using it on Android right now) and on a Windows PC will give you a massive list of PIDs, but it doesn't give you the individual addresses that I could tell. You'd have to use some sort of serial sniffer to watch the data stream to nab the actual address. Just not something I've got time for on a work night typically.

Quote from: Gjkrisa on July 07, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
Does forscan let you see all pids? Or is it like torque that it only sees what it knows I read a comment on forscan that be nice to add pid

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Sweet. Once we figure this out, hopefully we can get it added to the Torque PID CSV. I need to check and see if IAT2 works for me or not as well.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 07, 2016, 03:15:34 PM
Yeah, you need both banks to display and there are 2 different sets of O2 pids in the OBD standards list so I have  some work to do to figure it out. I'm gonna ask the guys over at scantool,net which formula they use because both banks work.

Cool

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Here is a link I found interesting for everyone going to also create a new post when I get more time just got to work
https://theksmith.com/software/hack-vehicle-bus-cheap-easy-part-1/
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I loaded up some PIDs in FORScan that appeared to be representative of what we were looking for and data logged them. Here are the results..

First start after adaptation and KAM reset, about 20 minutes of idling. STFTs take about 7.5 minutes to stabilize. Graphed with coolant temp. (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-first-start-idle-learn-post-injector-repair?log=0&data=1-9-10-11-12&solo=1)

I then took a datalog on a 10 minute or so drive. Finding a decent way to map this in a graph seems challenging, but here are my attempts...

STFT Over Time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-short-drive-after-idle-learn?log=0&data=11-12)
LTFT Over Time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-short-drive-after-idle-learn?log=0&data=9-10)
STFT & LTFT Over Time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-short-drive-after-idle-learn?log=0&data=9-10-11-12)

I think the below graph is telling me the Bank 1 Catalyst might be toast. When I gave it a bit of throttle on this drive it smoked white/grey, just as it did when it idled, but I suspect this is left over junk in the cat from the stuck injector. Toward the end of the drive I was able to give it decent amounts of throttle without smoke. Although Bank 1 was the one that had the toasted injector, so that might be expected.
Rear O2 Voltage over time with ETC Actual (throttle plate angle) (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-short-drive-after-idle-learn?log=0&data=2-6-8&solo=2)

If you're not familiar, you can manipulate the graphs on the Datazap website. Clicking an item in the legend toward the bottom will add it to the graph, clicking the graph line will break out a separate axis scale. Some of the PIDs I logged weren't what I thought they were. Mainly the front O2s. Nor am I getting desired rail pressure in the log. I am getting actual rail pressure, and I did get it to 2088psi and a huge fountain and fire didn't appear under my hood, so I've got that going for me.

Let me know what y'all think. She drives nice, has power, doesn't stumble, just that occasional smoke I got, but that went away toward the end of my test drive. I'm going to play around with FORScan a bit more and see if I can get a good comparative log that includes data from the front O2s. My OBDLink MX will be here Wednesday, so I can get a bit better (faster) resolution of data out of the car.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 07, 2016, 03:15:34 PM
Yeah, you need both banks to display and there are 2 different sets of O2 pids in the OBD standards list so I have  some work to do to figure it out. I'm gonna ask the guys over at scantool,net which formula they use because both banks work.

For some reason all the links are going to their FAQ section :(  Maybe the links are not public?

Ahh, crap. I had them set as private, just flipped them to public, should work now! Oops.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 09, 2016, 06:17:15 PM
For some reason all the links are going to their FAQ section :(

I looked at the first graph, and I thought:  the stfts are settling down NICE

I looked at the second graph, and I thought:  holy cannoli, batman!  I can only assume you got off the gas completely a number of times (fuel cutoff)?  That's what it looks like, I think.

Can you add the ETC_ACT to the graph for all 3 fuel trim graphs?  Then it would make a ton more sense ...

Also, what was the interval between data points?  IME OBDLink MX should get you 30ms snippets.

Yes, I did let off the throttle on the drive a few times. Anyone viewing the graph should be able to modify what's visible by clicking on the parameter in the legend just above the raw data. Parameters can be added and removed at will. It's pretty sweet free software. I've made those changes in the links below as well...

STFT Over Time w/ETC_ACT (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-short-drive-after-idle-learn?log=0&data=2-11-12)
LTFT Over Time w/ETC_ACT (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-short-drive-after-idle-learn?log=0&data=2-9-10&solo=2)
STFT & LTFT Over Time w/ETC_ACT (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-short-drive-after-idle-learn?log=0&data=2-9-10-11-12) This one is a little busy.

I looked through the "timems" column of the data and it looks like about 60ms or so seems to be average.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 09, 2016, 06:42:39 PM
I looked at the first graph, and I thought:  the stfts are settling down NICE

I looked at the second graph, and I thought:  holy cannoli, batman!  I can only assume you got off the gas completely a number of times (fuel cutoff)?  That's what it looks like, I think.

Can you add the ETC_ACT to the graph for all 3 fuel trim graphs?  Then it would make a ton more sense ...

Also, what was the interval between data points?  IME OBDLink MX should get you 30ms snippets.

Gotcha!  60ms is not bad, that's what I used to get out of a v.gate type adapter.

Ok, yeah stft variations/o2 variations with throttle snaps :thumb:  Perhaps throttle not as quick to respond, or over responds, later in the game tho.  Need to spray some meth on it to keep it clean, LOL.

This is some either eBay or Amazon ELM327 adapter I picked up years ago. I had some eBay bucks so I scored a OBDLink MX that'll be here next week. At least I'll have it in the car for future use.

I thought the fuel trims looked much better, but wasn't sure if they were good enough to call it "fixed."

I suppose my biggest concern is the graph showing the rear o2 sensor voltages (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-short-drive-after-idle-learn?log=0&data=2-6-8&solo=2), it appears the bank 1 sensor 2 just chills at .8V-.9V regardless of what's going on. The car didn't throw a MIL yet, but when I got home from my test drive I just shut it down and came in for dinner. I should go out and check for DTCs from that test drive. I guess the big guess is if the sensor or the catalyst on that bank is done for. 

Oh, and yeah, meth is in my future. Thinking catch can (UPR unit en route...although not sure that was a good choice with the debate of that vs. RX), meth, intake, t-stat, plugs, and a tune and she'll be right where I want her. Maybe downpipes. If a catalyst is truly dead on my car, this stuff comes earlier I suppose. I live in a non-emissions checking state.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 09, 2016, 07:16:02 PM
Gotcha!  60ms is not bad, that's what I used to get out of a v.gate type adapter.

Ok, yeah stft variations/o2 variations with throttle snaps :thumb:  Perhaps throttle not as quick to respond, or over responds, later in the game tho.  Need to spray some meth on it to keep it clean, LOL.

Hopefully no DTCs ...  other than o2 sensors, don't know how you'd check condition of the cats.  The combo of fixing the injector and drive quality lends hope tho.

I checked last night and after a drive today, no DTCs. Pretty happy about that. Went for a drive today, took some logs, found some add'l FORscan parameters that might be useful. O2S11_curma appears to be a useful output from O2 Sensor 1 Bank 1 that can be mapped to AFR, but I don't see an O2S12_curma equivalent. Really trying to find out how to read O2 Sensor 1 Bank 2, but it baffles me. I feel like I'm missing something obvious...

5+ minute 70mph cruise
STFT vs. TP% over time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-70mph-cruising?log=0&data=2-8-9)
LTFT vs. TP% over time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-70mph-cruising?log=0&data=2-6-7)
low pressure fuel vs. desired over time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-70mph-cruising?log=0&data=2-11-12&solo=2) (scaling is odd, fuel pressure is in kPa, fluctuations are 3-4psi
high pressure fuel rail vs. desired over time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-70mph-cruising?log=0&data=2-13-14&solo=2)

30 second 45mph cruise (traffic doesn't cooperate)
STFT vs. TP% over time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-45mph-cruising-1?log=0&data=2-8-9)
LTFT vs. TP% over time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-45mph-cruising-1?log=0&data=2-6-7)

1.5 minute 45mph cruise
STFT vs. TP% over time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-45mph-cruising-2?log=0&data=2-8-9)
LTFT vs. TP% over time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-45mph-cruising-2?log=0&data=2-6-7)

I'm still going to proceed with cautious optimism. I changed the oil today to negate the negative effects of any possible fuel dilution. Catch can is in route and we'll start working on the rest of the mod plan. Definitely going to switch to 93 w/Techron as my fuel choice, and going to make Techron concentrate a maintenance item to hopefully promote injector health.

Thanks for everyone for their help in this. I'm going to work on assembling the videos I took regarding the fuel injector install and make a "How To" video.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 09, 2016, 07:40:39 PM
Hopefully no DTCs ...  other than o2 sensors, don't know how you'd check condition of the cats.  The combo of fixing the injector and drive quality lends hope tho.

So there's an O2S11 but no O2S21?  Sounds like the situation is under control though, and you have a solid plan going forward :thumb:  Just don't like the disparity on the LTFTs between the banks, but that may well be characteristic of a stock engine setup.  I routinely see a 2% of so diff on my NA Edge.  So no worries :)  Looking forward to the video(s), onward & upward!

For anyone desiring kPa to Psi conversion - 1 Kilopascal (kPa) = 0.145037738 Psi (Pound Per Square Inch)
http://www.asknumbers.com/kilopascal-to-psi.aspx (http://www.asknumbers.com/kilopascal-to-psi.aspx)

P.S.:  The only change I would recommend is to replace the O2 sensors (don't know if they can be cleaned, even tho I have seen it done in YT), just to be sure, to start from a known good working point.

Thanks shodded

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That's exactly right. I can't find any way to read O2 Sensor 1 Bank 2 in Torque Pro or FORScan for the life of me. I've got an OBDLink MX arriving around Wednesday that I'll just dedicate to this car. I want to get a cheapie Android phone or tablet to just Torque Pro/OBDLink in there full time. FoMoCoSHO has some pretty slick layouts for OBDLink that I'm looking forward to doing something similar.

I saw the variations between the banks on LTFT and wasn't 100% sure why. I looked at a datalog with ST&LTFT at the same time (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-70mph-cruising?log=0&data=2-6-7-8-9) and the overall trim appeared mostly the same between the banks so I just didn't worry about it any more.

I really considered writing some scripts to adjust the conversion values in the datalogs automatically. Things like C to F and kPa to PSI. Maybe eventually. Lol.

I hope someone comes along and finds this post useful in the future. I think it's a true testament to the value of community for us enthusiasts. I'm a guy with enough basic mechanical knowledge to get my hands dirty myself in trouble, but with some help and encouragement, the job got done and the car appears fixed...for now.

EDIT: If you're curious, here's a graph (http://www.datazap.me/u/4cefed86/2014-sho-post-injector-fix-70mph-cruising?log=0&data=3&solo=3) of O2S11_curma for my 70mph cruising for about 10 minutes. That sine wave swing makes me think it's a normal signal from an O2 with a vehicle at cruise.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 10, 2016, 10:48:57 PM
So there's an O2S11 but no O2S21?  Sounds like the situation is under control though, and you have a solid plan going forward :thumb:  Just don't like the disparity on the LTFTs between the banks, but that may well be characteristic of a stock engine setup.  So no worries :)  Looking forward to the video(s), onward & upward!

For anyone desiring kPa to Psi conversion - 1 Kilopascal (kPa) = 0.145037738 Psi (Pound Per Square Inch)
http://www.asknumbers.com/kilopascal-to-psi.aspx (http://www.asknumbers.com/kilopascal-to-psi.aspx)

/

Just remember not to have the MX plugged in all the time :)  Other than the possibility of false warnings (as with any other adapter), I find it too tempting to datalog all the time!

I was really considering this, and I may still do it in a tank or two. I'll keep an eye on the data logs. That rear O2 that was nearly stuck at .9V all the time seems to be behaving. I'd really like to lock down how to data log BOTH front and BOTH rear O2s before I swap them. Would definitely like some good before and after data.

Catless downpipes are likely in my future, so replacing the rear O2s likely doesn't make financial sense. ;)

Quote from: SHOdded on July 10, 2016, 10:48:57 PM
P.S.:  The only change I would recommend is to replace the O2 sensors (don't know if they can be cleaned, even tho I have seen it done in YT), just to be sure, to start from a known good working point.

That's kind of wild. False warnings in what sense? MILs? I have Scan Gauges in all my cars except this one and they stay plugged in 100% of the time. I know that's a little different, but I was hoping for a Ron Popiel (set-it-and-forget-it) mentality to my OBD instrumentation.

Quote from: SHOdded on July 10, 2016, 11:01:25 PM
Just remember not to have the MX plugged in all the time :)  Other than the possibility of false warnings (as with any other adapter), I find it too tempting to datalog all the time!

Agreed.  What kind of emissions testing do they do in LA, if at all?  Tailpipe, visual, OBD?  We have OBD-based inspection where I live.

I think mostly Uxxxx type codes with the OBD adapters, there's a thread or two on here about that.  Keep it plugged in if you will, just be aware to not panic if you see these false alarms raised.  No idea why this happens tho.

Not the thread I was looking for, but this one does talk about it:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5140 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5140)

In the parish (county for the rest of you) I live in, there's zero emissions testing. Depending on where you go, they might check for some things, the place I go they just make sure your MIL isn't on. My turbocharged FR-S passed inspection with flying colors. :)

I'll check that thread out. Thanks!

Quote from: SHOdded on July 10, 2016, 11:05:38 PM
Agreed.  What kind of emissions testing do they do in LA, if at all?  Tailpipe, visual, OBD?  We have OBD-based inspection where I live.

I think mostly Uxxxx type codes with the OBD adapters, there's a thread or two on here about that.  Keep it plugged in if you will, just be aware to not panic if you see these false alarms raised.  No idea why this happens tho.

Not the thread I was looking for, but this one does talk about it:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5140 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5140)

Hey deebeaux do you know where you saw fomocosho's gauge set up?

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Gjkrisa,

Sure do. Check out this thread (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2318.0.html). There's a few shots of what he's accomplished with the  OBDLink software. You'll need an OBDLink MX to use this software, or you can get same functionality with another ELM327 interface using OBD Fusion, but you have to pay for the software. OBDLink is free if you have an OBDLink MX interface.

I just got my OBDLink MX today (2 days early!) and I am loving it. It's SO MUCH FASTER than my generic interface. Highly recommended.

Quote from: Gjkrisa on July 11, 2016, 07:01:52 PM
Hey deebeaux do you know where you saw fomocosho's gauge set up?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Cool thanks I got the mx

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One of the things I have been unsuccessful with is exporting out of Torque and OBDLink. I think I may have figured out how to export in OBDLink but haven't been able to see if it works.

I can export in Torque but when someone tried to use my config file Torque blew it up. I've heard that may be fixed now.

Further discussion of the Torque Dashboard has been made into its' own topic:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6453.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6453.0.html)

Do you still have the videos, Deebeaux, can you post them up?  It would be really helpful, as members are showing interest in DIY'ing the FI replacements.  TIA!

I do have them. I will get them posted as soon as feasible, I promise. My house flooded back in May and slightly again (with no damage since it was already torn apart) back in August and we're in the middle of all the repairs. Also couple that with my iPhone 6 Plus succumbed to the "touch disease" around a month or so ago and I just got it replaced with a new one. I'll get the videos arranged/uploaded as soon as I can. We're working on my home office this week so hopefully that'll be soon.

Quote from: SHOdded on September 25, 2016, 12:47:23 AM
Do you still have the videos, Deebeaux, can you post them up?  It would be really helpful, as members are showing interest in DIY'ing the FI replacements.  TIA!

:o  Sorry to hear about the flood, Deebeaux, that's a lousy turn of events!  I hope insurance covered most if not all of it?  5 months and still seeking sanity, that is QUITE a wallop :(

Yeah, it's mostly an insurance deal, not really out much money from pocket, but out some time and sanity. We're doing a lot of the work ourselves to save some money and make some improvements, so at least in the end things will be better, but it's been quite the project. TBH the flood itself wasn't too bad, we didn't really lose much "stuff" just damage to drywall and what not. We were there when it happened and were able to get everything important up off the ground. The VW got water in it, but looks like seats and carpet are the only casualties there, everything else is working 100%. Rest of the cars were fine.

Quote from: SHOdded on October 04, 2016, 03:14:42 PM
:o  Sorry to hear about the flood, Deebeaux, that's a lousy turn of events!  I hope insurance covered most if not all of it?  5 months and still seeking sanity, that is QUITE a wallop :(

Glad to hear it :thumb:

Sorry for the long delay (and reviving the old thread) in getting this together, but as promised, here's the info I collected on doing the fuel injector swap on my '14 SHO. I posted here as I wanted to make sure anyone following this got the update. Attached to this post is a zip file of PDFs I made of the Ford service manual for the relevant sections pertaining to the swap. (I hope that's okay.) I didn't include some of the more obvious ones, like how to disconnect the negative battery terminal.

Here's a link to a YouTube playlist (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2X2Yq_kpqily-1H_6GEbYKocqJFSEagK) to accompany the PDFs that just interject some notes and tips I have for folks doing the job. I want to be clear the videos are not a step-by-step how to series. I followed the PDFs and just made videos about things I encountered during that path which I felt might need a little clarification or a quick tip. When making these videos I assumed viewers would have some mechanical ability, but not necessarily be masters at the craft. I do interject some opinion in the videos, which may or may not be right, so take that as you will.

I want to note I didn't do exactly what Ford says to do, but it came out alright. Your mileage may vary. No warranties expressed or implied. Do at your own risk. Etc...

I hope this helps someone as I'm sure doing this myself saved me a boat load of money. The car is still running strong and on an Unleashed 3bar tune now with a catch can. Haven't had any issues since the injector swap, so apparently whatever I did was good enough. LOL.

I apologize for the amateur nature of the videos, but it's the best I could do by myself with an iPhone and within my time constraints. I wish I would have had more time to edit them all into one video for everyone. The playlist and all the videos are unlisted as I'd prefer everyone who finds the videos finds them through EBPF and this post as it would prime them for the task vs. just stumbling across them on the Internet.

Appreciate the followup, Deebeaux, hope this means your SHO is running well, and that your home has also recovered from the floods.  We will be sure to give all the credit to the iPhone for the informative videos :P

BIG thanks to Deebeaux for posting this!
Had one injector stick open, #5. Missing and Pouring out Smoke.
I decided that since I was going to be in their anyway, to replace all 6.

With his Video's and The manual Instructions, I was able to replace the injectors in my Wife's 2010 SHO.
No special tools needed, though the remote clamp release was a big help.
I wasn't able to remove the Intake manifold without removing the Thermostat and housing.
That was no big deal tho.
I didn't order the O ring/bolt/tie wrap kit. Expensive and Don't think it is needed.
The new injectors come with O rings installed.
Bolts and clips can be re-used. Bolts have minimal torque, Just put a little fresh Locktite on them.
You will need new tie wraps, but any will do.
You could probably re-use the intake gaskets, but they are pretty cheap.

Thanks again!

Brian
2010 Cinnamon SHO

Glad it helped you out, and good tips :)  Welcome!