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Does it smoke on startup or ANY other time?
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 08, 2018, 06:31:24 PM
Does it smoke on startup or ANY other time?
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Literally only on decel or if you rev it to 2k+ in neutral/park which doesn't really happen for me.
Quote from: Jordan on September 08, 2018, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 08, 2018, 06:31:24 PM
Does it smoke on startup or ANY other time?
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Literally only on decel or if you rev it to 2k+ in neutral/park which doesn't really happen for me.
Could be piston rings if you have new turbos and have ruled them out...
I would pull some of the plugs and check them, additionally a compression check would be worth it.
Decel smoke would indicate a vacuum issue... are you running a catch can?
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 08, 2018, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: Jordan on September 08, 2018, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 08, 2018, 06:31:24 PM
Does it smoke on startup or ANY other time?
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Literally only on decel or if you rev it to 2k+ in neutral/park which doesn't really happen for me.
Could be piston rings if you have new turbos and have ruled them out...
I would pull some of the plugs and check them, additionally a compression check would be worth it.
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Why would there be oil in the intake tract if it could be piston rings is my question? I have replaced the plugs and nothing looked out of the ordinary. I have pictures of them and they are all very even in terms of colors. It's been doing this for probably 5,000 miles now. I haven't done a compression test though, but never thought it would be necessary if it's intake side.
Quote from: Jordan on September 08, 2018, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 08, 2018, 06:35:33 PM
Quote from: Jordan on September 08, 2018, 06:33:30 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 08, 2018, 06:31:24 PM
Does it smoke on startup or ANY other time?
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Literally only on decel or if you rev it to 2k+ in neutral/park which doesn't really happen for me.
Could be piston rings if you have new turbos and have ruled them out...
I would pull some of the plugs and check them, additionally a compression check would be worth it.
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Why would there be oil in the intake tract if it could be piston rings is my question? I have replaced the plugs and nothing looked out of the ordinary. I have pictures of them and they are all very even in terms of colors. It's been doing this for probably 5,000 miles now. I haven't done a compression test though, but never thought it would be necessary if it's intake side.
Is the oil pooling at the TB? It's normal for a small amount of oil residue to be the intake track with these cars. Pooling is not though...
How much smoke are we talking about? Is it noticeable in the rear view?
Looking at that picture you posted, that doesn't look out of the ordinary... and if there was enough oil coming through the intake track into the combination chamber, you would see smoke at more than just decel.
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(https://i.imgur.com/cmMx7PA.jpg)
Here is a picture of plugs. And the noisemaker delete from EPP was put on 2-3 weeks ago. There was a decent drip at the bottom of the pipe. You can see a decent bit in the rear view if you really aggressively downshift or try to do it. Even was doing this when I was at the strip so I'd like to assume it wouldn't be lacking on compression if that's the case. I'll need to check the throttle body, but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary when I took the pipe off, but can't say I was paying attention as I was really just checking the noisemaker pipe. Plugs were done last month and it's been smoking a long time longer then that.
Maybe someone else will chime in... but if you have done all the things you have said... then I would start with a compression test, that will let you know if the rings, valves, etc are causing the problem...
Otherwise you could have a DOA turbo but if it was doing before the original set were replaced, and again after, that leads me to believe it's mostly likely not a turbo...
Could try a catch can, but that would most likely hide an existing issue..
So is the smoking only on decel and when reving past 2K in Park? Cause your last post made it sound like it's also smoking when it down shifts going into wot?
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 08, 2018, 07:00:46 PM
Maybe someone else will chime in... but if you have done all the things you have said... then I would start with a compression test, that will let you know if the rings, valves, etc are causing the problem...
Otherwise you could have a DOA turbo but if it was doing before the original set were replaced, and again after, that leads me to believe it's mostly likely not a turbo...
Could try a catch can, but that would most likely hide an existing issue..
So is the smoking only on decel and when reving past 2K in Park? Cause your last post made it sound like it's also smoking when it down shifts going into wot?
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PCV is completely blocked on the intake manifold so there is no crank case ventilation going into the intake manifold. It has a catch can technically just that line is zip tied down. If you rev and hold above 2k it'll smoke decently and I mean on aggressive downshifts to slow the vehicle via engine braking. I didn't specify that at all thanks for catching that it made sense in my head.
True Indeed! It sounds like a plugged crankcase ventilation system as noted ^^^
Inoperative turbocharger bypass valve! Z
Quote from: ZSHO on September 08, 2018, 07:20:50 PM
True Indeed! It sounds like a plugged crankcase ventilation system as noted ^^^
Inoperative turbocharger bypass valve! Z
Haha I mean the PCV itself isn't blocked, but the port that it leads to the intake manifold has been blocked as I thought it may had been pulling excessive vacuum/ oil vapors into the engine causing the smoke, but that made no change as well.
Have you checked the intercooler for accumulation? Even with a good turbo you'll still get some oil in there.
I had this on my SHO as well. My car had 800 miles on it. I had catless DP's and a catback so NO cats. On decels and idle revs I would see and smell oil smoke. I never checked my PCV oil separator back then so I don't know if it was clogged but I doubt it. Jordan I don't like you capping the intake and venting the PCV to atmosphere because turbo engines need to have some sucking of the crankcase. It helps the oil drains.
I hate thinking that new turbos are bad but maybe these turbos are just junky..I mean they are only like 500$
SOmetimes people overfeed oil to turbos or mount the drains too low in the pan but this is an OEM setup so you know that's right.
I have never or will never buy the idea that when back pressure is too low the turbos will smoke. Race cars have huge exhausts with no cats and I've run multiple turbos with not cats and 3" exhausts...A little oil can cause a lot of smoke so maybe your oil problem isn't as bad as you think.
Are you sure your catch can system is routed properly and check valves if you have any are fine?...All of this is why I route my crankcase hoses right into my filters in my turbo coyote...It's simple and I'm not worried about a little oil mist lowering octane, it's tuned for the octane it has.
What type of oil R U using! sometimes the incorrect type or grade of oil can cause these symptoms... Check the 3-bar map sensor by the (intercooler) to see if any oil is present and proceed from there! R your BOV -VTA! Z
PCV was only unhooked to see if it was pulling excessive vacuum plus oil vapors into the engine. I'll hook that back up. And as far as oil I am unsure I get free full synthetic oil changes at my local ford store due to how many I get with my company car. (4 oil changes 5th is free so I just do the fifth on my own car) I do believe it's 10w30, but not 100%. I just don't get it and I am kind of at the point where I am tired of throwing money into this 114k mile car despite it being wonderfully reliable. Might just check out my local store and see about getting a decent mile SHO and swap all my goodies over.
However something I still need to do, but won't have the time to is pull off the charge pipes off the turbos and see if there is any excessive oil build up between the two. Assuming it could be a turbo then it would have more oil on it than the other... At least I'd hope.
Quote from: glock-coma on September 09, 2018, 08:51:36 AM
Have you checked the intercooler for accumulation? Even with a good turbo you'll still get some oil in there.
Intercooler was cleaned out about 3 weeks ago. It had some in it, but how much I am not sure. I hung it up and spray brake parts cleaner in it and funneled the excess into a fuel can
Trading it in already?
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Ha, I have had it for over a year now. Been fighting this problem for a few months easily. It would be a few different things to trade it. Would allow me to get a slightly newer lower miles Taurus while also alleviating me of the oil in the exhaust problem that I can't seem to figure out.
Quote from: Jordan on September 09, 2018, 11:18:22 AM
Ha, I have had it for over a year now. Been fighting this problem for a few months easily. It would be a few different things to trade it. Would allow me to get a slightly newer lower miles Taurus while also alleviating me of the oil in the exhaust problem that I can't seem to figure out.
If the trans and PTu are good, might be worth sending the motor to Supersix for a stroker kit... cheaper than buying a new car... I would have done that had everything else in my 2010 been sound....
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 09, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
Quote from: Jordan on September 09, 2018, 11:18:22 AM
Ha, I have had it for over a year now. Been fighting this problem for a few months easily. It would be a few different things to trade it. Would allow me to get a slightly newer lower miles Taurus while also alleviating me of the oil in the exhaust problem that I can't seem to figure out.
If the trans and PTu are good, might be worth sending the motor to Supersix for a stroker kit... cheaper than buying a new car... I would have done that had everything else in my 2010 been sound....
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Can't exactly finance a stroker kit, however that would be cool, but would need for a lot of other upgrades as well at the same time! Don't feel like spending 3.8k plus another 4k in turbos and fueling none the less the price to put it together!
I replaced my pcv valve and canister that mounts to the valve cover and my smoking on decel went away.
Check all of you vacuum hoses... good vacuum helps the rings seal.
Quote from: Gray Brick on September 09, 2018, 12:57:10 PM
I replaced my pcv valve and canister that mounts to the valve cover and my smoking on decel went away.
Check all of you vacuum hoses... good vacuum helps the rings seal.
Yes and good vacuum helps the turbos drain . Also I doubt this is an issue but the 10w- oil you think the dealer used is not correct and will be a bit thicker when cold and will increase oil pressure which may be excessive for the seals..Garrett has a section on that issue
Quote from: Gray Brick on September 09, 2018, 12:57:10 PM
I replaced my pcv valve and canister that mounts to the valve cover and my smoking on decel went away.
Check all of you vacuum hoses... good vacuum helps the rings seal.
What do you mean by the pcv valve and canister? I replaced the valve cover and the PCV just not sure what you mean by using both those words. Also not sure what oil they used I assume it's whatever ford suggests which honestly I have never bothered to do an oil change myself on this vehicle so I am not sure what they call for.
The canister separator on top of the valve cover you should try flushing with solvent or replacing..sho bro had that problem that helped with smoking
Quote from: AJP turbo on September 09, 2018, 01:30:44 PM
The canister separator on top of the valve cover you should try flushing with solvent or replacing..sho bro had that problem that helped with smoking
Ah yes that was replaced via the TSB for the valve cover. So that is all new OEM
(https://i.imgur.com/EwGINkV.png)
this one
When was it replaced, Jordan? If you are finding more than a misting of oil in the turbo piping, or a goodly amount of accumulation in the intercooler, worth changing out the PCV valve and separator. At least pull them and inspect closely
Quote from: SHOdded on September 09, 2018, 07:33:57 PM
When was it replaced, Jordan? If you are finding more than a misting of oil in the turbo piping, or a goodly amount of accumulation in the intercooler, worth changing out the PCV valve and separator. At least pull them and inspect closely
3 weeks max on replacement.
Like I said the PCV has not even been hooked to the intake for about a week now so nothing oil wise has been going into the intake from the PCV.
Typically smoke on decel with high engine rpm and closed throttle...AKA high vacuum situations, is a result of bad valve stem seals allowing oil to be sucked around the seals during high vacuum situations. Which explains why it doesn't do it any other time...now I will admit these cars with all their turbo piping and PCV routing make it hard to make a 100% certain diagnosis over the internet. But that's the typical scenario that bad valve stem seals will rear their ugly head...and as they get worse they will leak down into the cylinder over night and cause smoke on startup. Which some will diagnose as bad turbo seals...which it could be LoL Forced induction engines are fun...but they can be a pain when it comes to tracing certain issues down!
Valve stem seal would be crazy. I'm not smoking on start up but that seems to be about the only thing it could be at this point. Previously I looked up to see if anybody had needed to do valve stem seals and I couldn't find a case of it. I'll look into it more now
Quote from: Jordan on September 26, 2018, 10:33:19 AM
Valve stem seal would be crazy. I'm not smoking on start up but that seems to be about the only thing it could be at this point. Previously I looked up to see if anybody had needed to do valve stem seals and I couldn't find a case of it. I'll look into it more now
I have never seen anyone on the SHO forums have a diagnosis of valve stem seals. Not that I couldn't happen, just haven't seen it.
Might be worth while checking on the F150 EB forums as they tend to run their motors harder so someone over there might have seen it...
If I am not mistaken, wouldn't a compression leak down test confirm or deny it? I could be wrong on this.
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 26, 2018, 11:58:07 AM
Quote from: Jordan on September 26, 2018, 10:33:19 AM
Valve stem seal would be crazy. I'm not smoking on start up but that seems to be about the only thing it could be at this point. Previously I looked up to see if anybody had needed to do valve stem seals and I couldn't find a case of it. I'll look into it more now
I have never seen anyone on the SHO forums have a diagnosis of valve stem seals. Not that I couldn't happen, just haven't seen it.
Might be worth while checking on the F150 EB forums as they tend to run their motors harder so someone over there might have seen it...
If I am not mistaken, wouldn't a compression leak down test confirm or deny it? I could be wrong on this.
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Compression test wouldn't show a bad valve stem seal. I think you are thinking a valve seal itself that seals the valve to the head while a valve stem seal seals the camshaft side of things.