I saw this mentioned a few times in the last month on various Facebook groups (yes I know lot of BS there hence why asking here...). Supposedly according to them the 3.5eco transverse is prone to water pump failures?
I do not recall seeing it as ever even mentioned here or elsewhere until it came up on FB last month. Any truth to it?
Wouldnt say prone, but does it happen? Yes. Lot of factors at play. Overextended coolant change intervals, overextended oil change intervals ( even with full synth), frequent hard acceleration/braking (affects timing chains), etc.
One of the problems is the location. Being behind the front cover, it is a 14 hr book time job to do. A bigger concern to me is the potential for coolant to mix with oil when the overtemperature warning is ignored and one keeps driving instead if pulling over right away. That can damage the engine internally.
The pump itself has two seals. Old coolant erodes the seals. Chains develop slack. Slack causes the pump to wobble, and the bearings to wear down.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/GddVuKViof8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GddVuKViof8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GddVuKViof8)
Quote from: SHOdded on February 14, 2019, 08:35:16 AM
Wouldnt say prone, but does it happen? Yes. Lot of factors at play. Overextended coolant change intervals, overextended oil change intervals ( even with full synth), frequent hard acceleration/braking (affects timing chains), etc.
One of the problems is the location. Being behind the front cover, it is a 14 hr book time job to do. A bigger concern to me is the potential for coolant to mix with oil when the overtemperature warning is ignored and one keeps driving instead if pulling over right away. That can damage the engine internally.
Along with Shodded's explanation, people don't know about the lubricating properties of coolant. It keeps the seals lubricated and that keeps the pump happy. People believe that coolant is a lifetime fluid.......it isn't. Change all fluids on schedule, and don't skimp. Hell change them earlier.
There's nothing bulletproof or lifetime Fluids IMO and definitely change your Fluids sooner than later while avoiding Fords service interval recommendations for a peace of mind and costly repairs. Z
So no more prone than any other vehicle basically. They made it sound like it was a chronic failure, what you all are describing here is not a cause for concern like it was portrayed on FB.
I have had vehicles with chronic common issues: STS-V eat wheel bearings often 20-30k miles and some start to fail, shifter park switch failures at <50k miles, as well as thermostats. 944's you have to replace timing belt every 3yrs regardless of miles..
thanks again as always guys!
Quote from: ZSHO on February 14, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
There's nothing bulletproof or lifetime Fluids IMO and definitely change your Fluids sooner than later while avoiding Fords service interval recommendations for a peace of mind and costly repairs. Z
Fords initial change for coolant is 6 years or 100k miles so you think that is too long?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Quote from: BlueSHO on February 14, 2019, 12:11:44 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on February 14, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
There's nothing bulletproof or lifetime Fluids IMO and definitely change your Fluids sooner than later while avoiding Fords service interval recommendations for a peace of mind and costly repairs. Z
Fords initial change for coolant is 6 years or 100k miles so you think that is too long?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Hell yes that is way too long. Think of all the heat cycles coolant goes through just in 3 years......extreme hot and cold.
Quote from: SHOdded on February 14, 2019, 08:39:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GddVuKViof8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GddVuKViof8)
Here's part 2 to that video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrmH4S2_ZOI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrmH4S2_ZOI)
Quote from: BlueSHO on February 14, 2019, 12:11:44 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on February 14, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
There's nothing bulletproof or lifetime Fluids IMO and definitely change your Fluids sooner than later while avoiding Fords service interval recommendations for a peace of mind and costly repairs. Z
Fords initial change for coolant is 6 years or 100k miles so you think that is too long?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Divide that by Two! I change mine @ 30K Intervals from PTU-RDU-TRANS-COOLANT-BRAKE SYSTEM FLUSH!
Something to also consider is severe duty or severe climate would require shorter intervals IMO! Z
Boy oh boy I've never had mine changed, don't know when it was last done if ever, got the car with 52k and I've driven 20k....better get this done! Too close for comfort
Quote from: 802SHO on February 14, 2019, 06:46:26 PM
Boy oh boy I've never had mine changed, don't know when it was last done if ever, got the car with 52k and I've driven 20k....better get this done! Too close for comfort
I am in the same boat. Bought mine at 51K and I have 69K now. I am going to try and install my IC this weekend, so I will replace the coolant then.
My '13 is at 114k miles. Tuned since 51k. I can't count how many passes down the track. I will tell you that I have followed the advice of the good people on this forum in terms of maintenance and have almost 0 issues from my car. I even had to take it to Ford to have the rack and pinion replaced and they told me that the car is in pristine condition, aside from the rack and pinion issue at the time. I'm hoping to hear back from GH soon on the intercooler and we will see how much oil is in the stock one. I've never looked!
My Maintenance Schedule:
Oil - Amsoil Signature - 5k miles
Trans Drain Fill - 5k miles
PTU - 15k miles
RDU - 1 time a year around June
I had my coolant flushed last feb @ 90k because I knew the interval was coming and I was worried about the pump. After seeing I should do it even more often, I'll start doing that every 40k or 2 years.
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 08:21:59 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 14, 2019, 06:46:26 PM
Boy oh boy I've never had mine changed, don't know when it was last done if ever, got the car with 52k and I've driven 20k....better get this done! Too close for comfort
I am in the same boat. Bought mine at 51K and I have 69K now. I am going to try and install my IC this weekend, so I will replace the coolant then.
Good call, I'll wait until I do the same since the radiator will need to come out anyhow!
Just fill the radiator back up? Our system burbs itself doesn't it? Not sure if that's the correct term...lol
Quote from: 802SHO on February 15, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 08:21:59 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 14, 2019, 06:46:26 PM
Boy oh boy I've never had mine changed, don't know when it was last done if ever, got the car with 52k and I've driven 20k....better get this done! Too close for comfort
I am in the same boat. Bought mine at 51K and I have 69K now. I am going to try and install my IC this weekend, so I will replace the coolant then.
Good call, I'll wait until I do the same since the radiator will need to come out anyhow!
Just fill the radiator back up? Our system burbs itself doesn't it? Not sure if that's the correct term...lol
I am going to try and get as much out as I can. I know SBS said he got roughly 1.5 gallons out so... Going to go to Ford today and get some coolant and a new t-stat. I am probably going to remove the front end this afternoon and get to work.
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 15, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 08:21:59 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 14, 2019, 06:46:26 PM
Boy oh boy I've never had mine changed, don't know when it was last done if ever, got the car with 52k and I've driven 20k....better get this done! Too close for comfort
I am in the same boat. Bought mine at 51K and I have 69K now. I am going to try and install my IC this weekend, so I will replace the coolant then.
Good call, I'll wait until I do the same since the radiator will need to come out anyhow!
Just fill the radiator back up? Our system burbs itself doesn't it? Not sure if that's the correct term...lol
I am going to try and get as much out as I can. I know SBS said he got roughly 1.5 gallons out so... Going to go to Ford today and get some coolant and a new t-stat. I am probably going to remove the front end this afternoon and get to work.
Let me know what kind of fluid you get. You said youre going to Ford, what do they use? I just want to fill it back up with whatever is best.
Let us know how it goes with your IC install..pretty cooooolllllll
Quote from: 802SHO on February 15, 2019, 12:04:31 PM
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 15, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 08:21:59 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 14, 2019, 06:46:26 PM
Boy oh boy I've never had mine changed, don't know when it was last done if ever, got the car with 52k and I've driven 20k....better get this done! Too close for comfort
I am in the same boat. Bought mine at 51K and I have 69K now. I am going to try and install my IC this weekend, so I will replace the coolant then.
Good call, I'll wait until I do the same since the radiator will need to come out anyhow!
Just fill the radiator back up? Our system burbs itself doesn't it? Not sure if that's the correct term...lol
I am going to try and get as much out as I can. I know SBS said he got roughly 1.5 gallons out so... Going to go to Ford today and get some coolant and a new t-stat. I am probably going to remove the front end this afternoon and get to work.
Let me know what kind of fluid you get. You said youre going to Ford, what do they use? I just want to fill it back up with whatever is best.
Let us know how it goes with your IC install..pretty cooooolllllll
I just called Ford. $22 for a new t-stat, $8 for the gasket, and $22 per gallon of OEM Orange Ford Coolant. I am actually heading to the dyno right before that. Hoping to crack 400 AWHP tune only! Then I will take her home and start taking her apart.
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 12:21:24 PM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 15, 2019, 12:04:31 PM
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 15, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 08:21:59 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on February 14, 2019, 06:46:26 PM
Boy oh boy I've never had mine changed, don't know when it was last done if ever, got the car with 52k and I've driven 20k....better get this done! Too close for comfort
I am in the same boat. Bought mine at 51K and I have 69K now. I am going to try and install my IC this weekend, so I will replace the coolant then.
Good call, I'll wait until I do the same since the radiator will need to come out anyhow!
Just fill the radiator back up? Our system burbs itself doesn't it? Not sure if that's the correct term...lol
I am going to try and get as much out as I can. I know SBS said he got roughly 1.5 gallons out so... Going to go to Ford today and get some coolant and a new t-stat. I am probably going to remove the front end this afternoon and get to work.
Let me know what kind of fluid you get. You said youre going to Ford, what do they use? I just want to fill it back up with whatever is best.
Let us know how it goes with your IC install..pretty cooooolllllll
I just called Ford. $22 for a new t-stat, $8 for the gasket, and $22 per gallon of OEM Orange Ford Coolant. I am actually heading to the dyno right before that. Hoping to crack 400 AWHP tune only! Then I will take her home and start taking her apart.
Man if you crack 400 awhp tune only that will be epic! Since you're swapping out thr t stat why not upgrade it
QuoteMan if you crack 400 awhp tune only that will be epic! Since you're swapping out thr t stat why not upgrade it
We will see. She went 391/470 last time. Honestly IMO there is zero gain from a lower T-stat. We can go round and round, but operating temp is operating temp. In 118 degree heat, it does not matter. The T-stat is at mercy of how efficient the actual cooling system is. I laugh inside when people say put a lower T-stat in, and even when tuners recommend a lower t-stat. Here is a good read about this...
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/ (http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/)
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 02:42:56 PM
QuoteMan if you crack 400 awhp tune only that will be epic! Since you're swapping out thr t stat why not upgrade it
We will see. She went 391/470 last time. Honestly IMO there is zero gain from a lower T-stat. We can go round and round, but operating temp is operating temp. In 118 degree heat, it does not matter. The T-stat is at mercy of how efficient the actual cooling system is. I laugh inside when people say put a lower T-stat in, and even when tuners recommend a lower t-stat. Here is a good read about this...
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/ (http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/)
Haha thats funny after I posted, I thought later about upgrading it and not even knowing a difference...
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 02:42:56 PM
QuoteMan if you crack 400 awhp tune only that will be epic! Since you're swapping out thr t stat why not upgrade it
We will see. She went 391/470 last time. Honestly IMO there is zero gain from a lower T-stat. We can go round and round, but operating temp is operating temp. In 118 degree heat, it does not matter. The T-stat is at mercy of how efficient the actual cooling system is. I laugh inside when people say put a lower T-stat in, and even when tuners recommend a lower t-stat. Here is a good read about this...
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/ (http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/)
Since your in AZ I would @ least try to lower the Coolant ratio down to 40/60 Coolant or lower especially if categorized under Extreme Hot climate. Z
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O38417&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1724827&subTitleSelected=G1724834&topicHRef=G1612346&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O38417&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1724827&subTitleSelected=G1724834&topicHRef=G1612346&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA)
Quote from: ZSHO on February 16, 2019, 07:13:12 AM
Quote from: sm105k on February 15, 2019, 02:42:56 PM
QuoteMan if you crack 400 awhp tune only that will be epic! Since you're swapping out thr t stat why not upgrade it
We will see. She went 391/470 last time. Honestly IMO there is zero gain from a lower T-stat. We can go round and round, but operating temp is operating temp. In 118 degree heat, it does not matter. The T-stat is at mercy of how efficient the actual cooling system is. I laugh inside when people say put a lower T-stat in, and even when tuners recommend a lower t-stat. Here is a good read about this...
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/ (http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/)
Since your in AZ I would @ least try to lower the Coolant ratio down to 40/60 Coolant or lower especially if categorized under Extreme Hot climate. Z
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O38417&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1724827&subTitleSelected=G1724834&topicHRef=G1612346&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?bookCode=O38417&languageCode=en&marketCode=US&viewTech=IE&chapterTitleSelected=G1724827&subTitleSelected=G1724834&topicHRef=G1612346&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA)
Funny that you say that. That is exactly what I did.
I've been reading up on these cars and was heavily considering buying a SHO seeing as how it's pretty much the perfect car for me but the water pump and chains look to be problematic and are a huge red flag.
Ford for whatever reason made the car transverse so they couldn't stuff an external pump like on the F150. So now changing the pump and/or chains is a huge job which sucks for people like me who do all their own repair work.
Browsing this forum there doesn't seem to be much talk about WP failures except for this thread that caught my eye. I'm sure it isn't terribly common but again most of the cars on this forum have sub 100k miles. So I can imagine how many more problems will rise up as these cars age.
I love the car but feel extremely discouraged now, it sucks as a Ford fan (I own a Mustang) to see them make dumb engineering mistakes over and over and not learn from it. Time to look for something LS powered I guess...
Quote from: Defiant on February 23, 2019, 03:52:31 PM
I've been reading up on these cars and was heavily considering buying a SHO seeing as how it's pretty much the perfect car for me but the water pump and chains look to be problematic and are a huge red flag.
Ford for whatever reason made the car transverse so they couldn't stuff an external pump like on the F150. So now changing the pump and/or chains is a huge job which sucks for people like me who do all their own repair work.
Browsing this forum there doesn't seem to be much talk about WP failures except for this thread that caught my eye. I'm sure it isn't terribly common but again most of the cars on this forum have sub 100k miles. So I can imagine how many more problems will rise up as these cars age.
I love the car but feel extremely discouraged now, it sucks as a Ford fan (I own a Mustang) to see them make dumb engineering mistakes over and over and not learn from it. Time to look for something LS powered I guess...
Welcome Defiant! I guess with any vehicle you need to stay on Top of your vehicle maintenance aspect and neglecting it will cause these issues to arise sooner than later.. Due setup an intro by following the below link. TIA. Z
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,14.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,14.0.html)
Quote from: Defiant on February 23, 2019, 03:52:31 PM
I've been reading up on these cars and was heavily considering buying a SHO seeing as how it's pretty much the perfect car for me but the water pump and chains look to be problematic and are a huge red flag.
Ford for whatever reason made the car transverse so they couldn't stuff an external pump like on the F150. So now changing the pump and/or chains is a huge job which sucks for people like me who do all their own repair work.
Browsing this forum there doesn't seem to be much talk about WP failures except for this thread that caught my eye. I'm sure it isn't terribly common but again most of the cars on this forum have sub 100k miles. So I can imagine how many more problems will rise up as these cars age.
I love the car but feel extremely discouraged now, it sucks as a Ford fan (I own a Mustang) to see them make dumb engineering mistakes over and over and not learn from it. Time to look for something LS powered I guess...
Well given the cars are not super old yet yes mileage is low in general. 100K point with "avg driving is 8.3yrs. So 1st year Sho's are getting to and over that 100k point now. That said I know a few people on this forum are over 100K if I recall, and quite honestly, folks on this forum are enthusiats that probably run their cars a fair bit harder than normal owners. If there was going to be a market segment to see issues, it would be this one imho
My reason for posting this thread was to inquire about it. People on FB and now you seem scared of the setup, but I do not understand why. They are far from the 1st Mfg to use this sort of setup, and I have yet to hear about an actual "rash of failures" with the powerplant/water pumps. Just seems like looking for something to be a problem or worry about is all. Sure it would be great if they were outside like classic engines, but the Ecoboost is decidedly not classic, that is what makes it special!
Quote from: Defiant on February 23, 2019, 03:52:31 PM
I've been reading up on these cars and was heavily considering buying a SHO seeing as how it's pretty much the perfect car for me but the water pump and chains look to be problematic and are a huge red flag.
Ford for whatever reason made the car transverse so they couldn't stuff an external pump like on the F150. So now changing the pump and/or chains is a huge job which sucks for people like me who do all their own repair work.
Browsing this forum there doesn't seem to be much talk about WP failures except for this thread that caught my eye. I'm sure it isn't terribly common but again most of the cars on this forum have sub 100k miles. So I can imagine how many more problems will rise up as these cars age.
I love the car but feel extremely discouraged now, it sucks as a Ford fan (I own a Mustang) to see them make dumb engineering mistakes over and over and not learn from it. Time to look for something LS powered I guess...
I mean, can't go wrong with the LS POWA. However, don't let the car scare you. Get a 13+ because there were some changes to the timing chain and WP from what I'm told. You can research to make sure that isn't BS, but the guy that old me is a reliable person. With that said, my car has 114k on the clock. Many, many, many passes down the strip. I drive it hard, but I am religious with my maintenance. I confidently drive my car from Tampa to Memphis multiple times a year. The SHO will love you as long you love it.
There's at least 1 class action lawsuit regarding the transverse 3.5 water pump. They generally don't fail at under 100k miles but when it does, it's $1500-$2000 to change. Or if it takes out the engine, then it's $8000+ (cited in one of the class action lawsuits). I don't know why Ford kept the transverse design all these years, especially when the longitudinal 2.7 EcoBoost fits in the Fusion with an external waterpump.
Class action lawsuits pop up like weeds. Whether they have any merit, no one really knows.
Quote from: metroplex on February 26, 2019, 04:36:44 AM
There's at least 1 class action lawsuit regarding the transverse 3.5 water pump. They generally don't fail at under 100k miles but when it does, it's $1500-$2000 to change. Or if it takes out the engine, then it's $8000+ (cited in one of the class action lawsuits). I don't know why Ford kept the transverse design all these years, especially when the longitudinal 2.7 EcoBoost fits in the Fusion with an external waterpump.
At around 107K mine mine was replaced under ESP while rebuilding the entire timing set.
No leaking but there was shaft play.
I was planning to replace it anyway while it was apart.
The defective timing set would have grenaded the engine well before the pump.
Should be GTG for another 100k unless I grenade it with too much AJPTurbo power.