Ecoboost Performance Forum

So if you have a sufficient aftermarket HPFP (more volume/psi)... Whats preventing guys from running straight E85? After speaking with a tuner (intentionally unnamed), E85 would only be tuned/used in conjunction with meth injection... which to me seems counter productive as far as wanting to avoid using meth altogether... Still running out of fuel at that point? Injectors limits? Engine hp limit?

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 12, 2018, 01:20:16 PM
So if you have a sufficient aftermarket HPFP (more volume/psi)... Whats preventing guys from running straight E85? After speaking with a tuner (intentionally unnamed), E85 would only be tuned/used in conjunction with meth injection... which to me seems counter productive as far as wanting to avoid using meth altogether... Still running out of fuel at that point? Injectors limits? Engine hp limit?

So you talked to LMS... but I digress...

We have the injectors and the pump. The fuel lines are adequate according the Gearhead. The part that is holding us up is the in tank low pressure pumps that sit in the saddle. They are your basic canister style fuel pumps which if we had a shop willing to look at them, could be an easy fix.

I had a spare pump I sent to BPD1151 for reconditioning and I THINK to be possibly modified to support more fuel flow.

That's it at this point I believe....


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🤫😂

I wondered when that pesky LPFP might come into play. I knew we have the "transfer" unit and the LPFP. Not to mention the LPFP module. But I guess thats the game... I'd really like the ease of running e85 which is readily available in my area. Its an easy pump to get to with access panels under the seat but I've yet to see any aftermarket upgrades... Oh well... The saga continues I guess. Trying to figure out which way I wanna go next with this thing.

There has been an existing LPFP solution for some time now.

Quote from: SHOdded on December 12, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
There has been an existing LPFP solution for some time now.

Ok. Let me rephrase... a DROP IN solution... not an auxiliary one. :-)


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Fair enough, but do you not have to drop the fuel tank to swap it out?

Quote from: SHOdded on December 12, 2018, 02:02:04 PM
Fair enough, but do you not have to drop the fuel tank to swap it out?

No. Just pull the rear bench seat cushions. You can swap it out in under 15 minutes with little to no mess.


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Nice.  They took away that option on the Edge in 2008 i think.

Quote from: SHOdded on December 12, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
There has been an existing LPFP solution for some time now.

Can you enlighten us pheasants?

Quote from: sm105k on December 12, 2018, 02:41:37 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on December 12, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
There has been an existing LPFP solution for some time now.

Can you enlighten us pheasants?

EcoPowerParts sells an aux fuel kit. But heard rumors he doesn't anymore.


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 12, 2018, 02:51:33 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 12, 2018, 02:41:37 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on December 12, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
There has been an existing LPFP solution for some time now.

Can you enlighten us pheasants?

EcoPowerParts sells an aux fuel kit. But heard rumors he doesn't anymore.


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Maybe being local he could point me in the right direction.

PM him or contact via the website
https://www.ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=contact_us (https://www.ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=contact_us)

I would think that if the lpfp was the issue someone would have engineered a higher volume one by now. With the cost and effort of making the HPFP to leave us sold short with no lpfp upgrade seems obsurd. To run E30 and pay all that $$$ is a tough pill to swallow. I just think it makes no practical sense to have to introduce Meth injection again to run e85. Defeats the point/simplicity of trying to run E85 only... Unless theres more to it than just the lpfp.

There are some built in functions in the tune to ramp up the flow like what people do with the mustangs using boost a pump modules. I wouldn't bother trying to upgrade the low pressure fuel pump until you actually see a problem.


Fomo here is running E85 at around 13-14 psi if I remember in his Lincoln and I think we even did some E85 in his 15' SHO if I remember. ALso I have a few other full E85 tunes going right now.


But yes I agree if you are needing to spray meth to help with fuel flow it's kind of silly because if you spray meth on 93 you get all the octane you need plus cooling and it may very well be cheaper because your fuel economy will go down with full e85..So just run 93 and get better fuel economy and similar spark

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 12, 2018, 04:44:19 PM
There are some built in functions in the tune to ramp up the flow like what people do with the mustangs using boost a pump modules. I wouldn't bother trying to upgrade the low pressure fuel pump until you actually see a problem.


Fomo here is running E85 at around 13-14 psi if I remember in his Lincoln and I think we even did some E85 in his 15' SHO if I remember. ALso I have a few other full E85 tunes going right now.


But yes I agree if you are needing to spray meth to help with fuel flow it's kind of silly because if you spray meth on 93 you get all the octane you need plus cooling and it may very well be cheaper because your fuel economy will go down with full e85..So just run 93 and get better fuel economy and similar spark

Rich Yaklin Jr has been through a few lpfp's attempting to run an aggressive E85 tune if I recall..

I think it depends on your goals? Running E85 just to get to the same power levels you can get on straight 93 isn't worth it to me. The idea behind E85 is to use its native cooling properties to run more load without knock than you can with 93. AKA cheap race fuel.

My .02


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 12, 2018, 05:12:17 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 12, 2018, 04:44:19 PM
There are some built in functions in the tune to ramp up the flow like what people do with the mustangs using boost a pump modules. I wouldn't bother trying to upgrade the low pressure fuel pump until you actually see a problem.


Fomo here is running E85 at around 13-14 psi if I remember in his Lincoln and I think we even did some E85 in his 15' SHO if I remember. ALso I have a few other full E85 tunes going right now.




But yes I agree if you are needing to spray meth to help with fuel flow it's kind of silly because if you spray meth on 93 you get all the octane you need plus cooling and it may very well be cheaper because your fuel economy will go down with full e85..So just run 93 and get better fuel economy and similar spark

Rich Yaklin Jr has been through a few lpfp's attempting to run an aggressive E85 tune if I recall..

I think it depends on your goals? Running E85 just to get to the same power levels you can get on straight 93 isn't worth it to me. The idea behind E85 is to use its native cooling properties to run more load without knock than you can with 93. AKA cheap race fuel.

My .02


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Yeah the octane is race fuel like maybe even the same as some....Not sure why he would've gone through low pressure fuel pumps? He did have an older SHO..The pump is made to handle it.

I would say there are pros and cons. You could maybe make more power than 93 oct on less boost which would make life on the turbos easier..Low fuel mileage is a con. Fomos car was probably making meth levels of power according to spark and boost on his E85 tune.

Good discussion!

We are fortunate to live in states where good 93 is plentiful.  People living in AZ, CA and CO maybe more states are irrevocably stuck.  So the more clarity we can get on E85, the better.

All correct SBS.

RY did have issues with the LPFP. As well as injectors being able to keep as well.

As have an isolated few others attempting to run the full E85 route.

I will continue personally keeping you updated on what my vendor comes up, if anything, on their end, for resolution/upgrading of the LPFP you previously sent me.

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I am currently tuning with AJP right now on Full E85. I have a Sheetz less than a mile from my house. It is $1.99 a gallon right now. I dont need a race tune. Just a drive around town tune as I do not commute. My first impressions on the highway is this tune should do around 20mpg at 70mph. Around town. 15ish. Will still save $$ considering the cost of 93oct in my area. I am not going to run this all year as I have 93 and E30 tunes from AJP. This is just a we can do it and have fun with it and it gives the SHO some versatility as far as fueling goes.

Quote from: Macgyver on December 12, 2018, 05:35:36 PM
I am currently tuning with AJP right now on Full E85. I have a Sheetz less than a mile from my house. It is $1.99 a gallon right now. I dont need a race tune. Just a drive around town tune as I do not commute. My first impressions on the highway is this tune should do around 20mpg at 70mph. Around town. 15ish. Will still save $$ considering the cost of 93oct in my area. I am not going to run this all year as I have 93 and E30 tunes from AJP. This is just a we can do it and have fun with it and it gives the SHO some versatility as far as fueling goes.

Can you give us a quick description of your fuel system set up?

Stock.

Quote from: Macgyver on December 12, 2018, 06:40:52 PM
Stock.

Very interesting.......

I would love to run straight e85 and get more performance then having to mix for my e30 tune from torrie

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Quote from: ChrisxEco on December 12, 2018, 08:16:54 PM
I would love to run straight e85 and get more performance then having to mix for my e30 tune from torrie

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I would love to run the E54 straight out of the pump here in PHX as well.....

Well... I'm stuck. My indecisiveness is debilitating.😂 Either way I have to dump more cash... Just how much $$$ vs gains ratio is where I'm at. I don't mind paying if the the requirement (hpfp) is real and the benefits (gains) are tangable.

My best 1/4 time 12.8. Best trap is 109mph. (On LMS Meth tune)

Maybe I'm just being unrealistic/unreasonable in my expectations. But basically whatever (if anything) I'd be able to do to improve on that by at LEAST 5 tenths is what I'm looking for.

Here is what I find odd... My car runs great on this Meth tune. It has been the least problematic tune for me even if NOT running meth (which I am not recommending or condoning). But V11 and V11 HPFP adjusted still sputter out on the top end. I don't understand why if the meth tune is supposed to be more agressive (which the seat dyno would say it is).... We'll IDK. That's where I guess my skepticism lies when it comes to that 1.6k $ hpfp... Plus they still want meth for running e85. 🤦‍♂️

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 12, 2018, 08:21:41 PM
Well... I'm stuck. My indecisiveness is debilitating.😂 Either way I have to dump more cash... Just how much $$$ vs gains ratio is where I'm at. I don't mind paying if the the requirement (hpfp) is real and the benefits (gains) are tangable.

My best 1/4 time 12.8. Best trap is 109mph. (On LMS Meth tune)

Maybe I'm just being unrealistic/unreasonable in my expectations. But basically whatever (if anything) I'd be able to do to improve on that by at LEAST 5 tenths is what I'm looking for.

Here is what I find odd... My car runs great on this Meth tune. It has been the least problematic tune for me even if NOT running meth (which I am not recommending or condoning). But V11 and V11 HPFP adjusted still sputter out on the top end. I don't understand why if the meth tune is supposed to be more agressive (which the seat dyno would say it is).... We'll IDK. That's where I guess my skepticism lies when it comes to that 1.6k $ hpfp... Plus they still want meth for running e85. 🤦‍♂️

What are your goals?  See my signature and that is what I have done with Brad's E30 tune.  So those numbers were also with a popped off boost reference hose (should go even faster)....and I am plugs, K&N drop in, and TUNE only.

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 12, 2018, 08:21:41 PM
Well... I'm stuck. My indecisiveness is debilitating. Either way I have to dump more cash... Just how much $$$ vs gains ratio is where I'm at. I don't mind paying if the the requirement (hpfp) is real and the benefits (gains) are tangable.

My best 1/4 time 12.8. Best trap is 109mph. (On LMS Meth tune)

Maybe I'm just being unrealistic/unreasonable in my expectations. But basically whatever (if anything) I'd be able to do to improve on that by at LEAST 5 tenths is what I'm looking for.

Here is what I find odd... My car runs great on this Meth tune. It has been the least problematic tune for me even if NOT running meth (which I am not recommending or condoning). But V11 and V11 HPFP adjusted still sputter out on the top end. I don't understand why if the meth tune is supposed to be more agressive (which the seat dyno would say it is).... We'll IDK. That's where I guess my skepticism lies when it comes to that 1.6k $ hpfp... Plus they still want meth for running e85. ‍

What was the DA on that run?

I ran a 12.799 on their V11 93 octane tune with the HPFP, CAI, 160tstat, and 3BAR.. the car was also heat soaked and my launch was not the best with a mid 1.85 60ft.

With meth you should be mid 12's unless your elevation is killing you...

My meth injected 2010 ran 12.4's on the LMS meth tune...

And you shouldn't be sputtering on the top end with the LMS meth tune? Unless you are injecting way too much meth as the system is a progressive system.

With the updated E30 tune from LMS I suspect I will back into the 12.4's easily with my 2016.


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Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 12, 2018, 08:21:41 PM
Well... I'm stuck. My indecisiveness is debilitating.😂 Either way I have to dump more cash... Just how much $$$ vs gains ratio is where I'm at. I don't mind paying if the the requirement (hpfp) is real and the benefits (gains) are tangable.

My best 1/4 time 12.8. Best trap is 109mph. (On LMS Meth tune)

Maybe I'm just being unrealistic/unreasonable in my expectations. But basically whatever (if anything) I'd be able to do to improve on that by at LEAST 5 tenths is what I'm looking for.

Here is what I find odd... My car runs great on this Meth tune. It has been the least problematic tune for me even if NOT running meth (which I am not recommending or condoning). But V11 and V11 HPFP adjusted still sputter out on the top end. I don't understand why if the meth tune is supposed to be more agressive (which the seat dyno would say it is).... We'll IDK. That's where I guess my skepticism lies when it comes to that 1.6k $ hpfp... Plus they still want meth for running e85. 🤦‍♂️

They want methanol for supplementary fueling due to the e85 causing it to lean out.

Quote from: Jordan on December 12, 2018, 08:43:59 PM

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 12, 2018, 08:21:41 PM
Well... I'm stuck. My indecisiveness is debilitating. Either way I have to dump more cash... Just how much $$$ vs gains ratio is where I'm at. I don't mind paying if the the requirement (hpfp) is real and the benefits (gains) are tangable.

My best 1/4 time 12.8. Best trap is 109mph. (On LMS Meth tune)

Maybe I'm just being unrealistic/unreasonable in my expectations. But basically whatever (if anything) I'd be able to do to improve on that by at LEAST 5 tenths is what I'm looking for.

Here is what I find odd... My car runs great on this Meth tune. It has been the least problematic tune for me even if NOT running meth (which I am not recommending or condoning). But V11 and V11 HPFP adjusted still sputter out on the top end. I don't understand why if the meth tune is supposed to be more agressive (which the seat dyno would say it is).... We'll IDK. That's where I guess my skepticism lies when it comes to that 1.6k $ hpfp... Plus they still want meth for running e85. ‍

They want methanol for supplementary fueling due to the e85 causing it to lean out.

Jordan is correct. The fuel system can't support full E85 with an aggressive tune. Spraying meth will take the load off the injectors and fuel pumps...

Are you running their DPM setup? Or a single nozzle?

Before making a purchase on the HPFP to support full E85 I would make damn sure they are willing to tune for it without the DPM setup... they may not as they are phasing out support for their single nozzle setups.


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Not sure I like the word can't...since I've been seeing otherwise....what is aggressive?

God I wish I could get E anything around me. Us NH folks don't believe in the corn stuff I guess.

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 12, 2018, 08:55:19 PM
Not sure I like the word can't...since I've been seeing otherwise....what is aggressive?

Faster than stock. As long as the FP holds out right?

I aint dragging the car on E85 thats for sure.

Maybe we can coin the phrase like "Save the Whales" Except with a low boost E85 tune its "Save the Snails".

She starts good. Runs good. Cant wait to load the next Rev.

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 12, 2018, 08:55:19 PM
Not sure I like the word can't...since I've been seeing otherwise....what is aggressive?

LMS runs way too rich to support E85 on the stock system... lean it out a bit and adjust for ethanol stoich would free up some...

But I would say demanding 15psi (and holding it to shift) with 23 degrees of spark is a fairly aggressive. LMS can barely do that on the stock fuel system with how rich they run.

Edit: they demand 13.7ish psi on their base V11 tune and people have hesistation issues due to fuel pressure dropping. Their tunes run at .74 lambda under wot...maybe a hair richer.

It's enough to turn the tail pipes black after a few runs lol.


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 12, 2018, 08:43:31 PM
What was the DA on that run?

I ran a 12.799 on their V11 93 octane tune with the HPFP, CAI, 160tstat, and 3BAR.. the car was also heat soaked and my launch was not the best with a mid 1.85 60ft.

With meth you should be mid 12's unless your elevation is killing you...

My meth injected 2010 ran 12.4's on the LMS meth tune...

And you shouldn't be sputtering on the top end with the LMS meth tune? Unless you are injecting way too much meth as the system is a progressive system.

With the updated E30 tune from LMS I suspect I will back into the 12.4's easily with my 2016.


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My goal has always been to run low to mid 12s... I am consistent 12.9. 12.8 is best 13 flat is lowest. Idk DA was high I posted it here somewhere. Ill check in a bit and edit.

To be clear the meth tune is the best tune I run I have very minimal to no sputtering even with NO meth actually being injected...(they do however scaleback the shift point on I believe the 2nd to 3rd shift several hundred rpms) I do have and have always had sputtering on the top end with the V11 and V11 HPFP adjusted tune tho that was covered in earlier threads.

Having said that I recently tried running E30 in my tank with the normally problem free Meth tune and low and behold the return of the top end sputter. Which in turn brought me to this point.

What is the weight difference in the Linc compared to a 12.5sec SHO on E30?

The MKS is roughly a couple hundred pounds heavier than the SHO IIRC!
To the OP did not see you had Meth injection in your signature! Z

Quote from: Macgyver on December 12, 2018, 09:20:01 PM
What is the weight difference in the Linc compared to a 12.5sec SHO on E30?

My SHO at full weight (no weight reduction) with me in it (240 lbs) and a quarter tank of gas weighs 4560 lbs. So 4320 by herself.

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 12, 2018, 09:10:07 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 12, 2018, 08:43:31 PM
What was the DA on that run?

I ran a 12.799 on their V11 93 octane tune with the HPFP, CAI, 160tstat, and 3BAR.. the car was also heat soaked and my launch was not the best with a mid 1.85 60ft.

With meth you should be mid 12's unless your elevation is killing you...

My meth injected 2010 ran 12.4's on the LMS meth tune...

And you shouldn't be sputtering on the top end with the LMS meth tune? Unless you are injecting way too much meth as the system is a progressive system.

With the updated E30 tune from LMS I suspect I will back into the 12.4's easily with my 2016.


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My goal has always been to run low to mid 12s... I am consistent 12.9. 12.8 is best 13 flat is lowest. Idk DA was high I posted it here somewhere. Ill check in a bit and edit.

To be clear the meth tune is the best tune I run I have very minimal to no sputtering even with NO meth actually being injected...(they do however scaleback the shift point on I believe the 2nd to 3rd shift several hundred rpms) I do have and have always had sputtering on the top end with the V11 and V11 HPFP adjusted tune tho that was covered in earlier threads.

Having said that I recently tried running E30 in my tank with the normally problem free Meth tune and low and behold the return of the top end sputter. Which in turn brought me to this point.

I have never had an issue with my E30 tune.  It has never sputtered and is not dependent on Meth.

Quote from: sm105k on December 12, 2018, 09:38:47 PMI have never had an issue with my E30 tune.  It has never sputtered and is not dependent on Meth.

AJP E30 ftw. Pulls amazing 60mph on. Plus the high torque low end etc etc.

Yea... That's where I'm at... I'm considering AJP for E30 tune. But concerned that if I am indeed having hpfp fueling issue that it may be all for not... Then as some have stated I'm not sure whether the sputtering issue is a "tuning style issue" or a true hpfp fueling issue. I have no data logging equipment tho because of the tuner I chose so here I am. It's seems as myself and SBS have had a similar path. He does have much more first hand experience with different tuners however.... Here I am trying to cheat and lets say not have to go through all that and achieve optimum results with minimal expense... 😂

I think FoMoCoSHO ran as high as E45 at one time with an AJP tune on his 2015, which was stock otherwise.  Lot of lessons learned along the way.  So E30 should be very doable on 2013+ with the stronger OEM HPFP.  Bit more of a challenge on the 2010-12 with about 500 psi less headroom, but still doable.

Quote from: sm105k on December 12, 2018, 09:36:55 PM

Quote from: Macgyver on December 12, 2018, 09:20:01 PM
What is the weight difference in the Linc compared to a 12.5sec SHO on E30?

My SHO at full weight (no weight reduction) with me in it (240 lbs) and a quarter tank of gas weighs 4560 lbs. So 4320 by herself.

Just to add to this, my '12 MKS was 4670 with me (I'm 175) and I had a car seat in (35lbs?), so it was probably closer to 4,460ish lbs.  Or in short, a little over 100lbs compared to the SHO.

Quote from: Macgyver on December 12, 2018, 10:18:49 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 12, 2018, 09:38:47 PMI have never had an issue with my E30 tune.  It has never sputtered and is not dependent on Meth.

AJP E30 ftw. Pulls amazing 60mph on. Plus the high torque low end etc etc.

Pretty much.  Brad is the man.

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 12, 2018, 10:50:46 PM
Yea... That's where I'm at... I'm considering AJP for E30 tune. But concerned that if I am indeed having hpfp fueling issue that it may be all for not... Then as some have stated I'm not sure whether the sputtering issue is a "tuning style issue" or a true hpfp fueling issue. I have no data logging equipment tho because of the tuner I chose so here I am. It's seems as myself and SBS have had a similar path. He does have much more first hand experience with different tuners however.... Here I am trying to cheat and lets say not have to go through all that and achieve optimum results with minimal expense... 😂

All of Brad's tunes have been great for me. I wonder if you are truly having HPFP issues....  It could be a "tuning style issue" as you have stated.  Honestly, if I were in your shoes and have seen the some other threads (SHO Forum) about a certain revision of a tune I would certainly be concerned. One of the main reasons I went with the SCT Livewire was because of the real time information, 10 loadable tunes, and the ability to datalog and review those logs.  I went with AJPTurbo because of the positive reviews, the performance postings, and because Brad is willing to explain why he does what he does with his tunes.  Plus I am learning along the way, and with knowledge comes power.

Quote from: SHOdded on December 12, 2018, 11:24:28 PM
I think FoMoCoSHO ran as high as E45 at one time with an AJP tune on his 2015, which was stock otherwise.  Lot of lessons learned along the way.  So E30 should be very doable on 2013+ with the stronger OEM HPFP.  Bit more of a challenge on the 2010-12 with about 500 psi less headroom, but still doable.

This gets my mind thinking.  I always test what comes out of the pump here in PHX for E products.  They usually test right at E50 ish.  I wonder when it warms up, if I could get away with running E50 ish all the time.  Something to throw past Brad.  E50 is usually around 80 cents cheaper a gallon as well. Even with my hot E30 tune my fuel pressure sits in a good range that both I and Brad feel good about.  I wonder if we back it off some, I could get away with E50 on the stock HPFP.   

To this day I still am left wondering why so many rave about E85 being "cheap".

It gets worse mileage than pump gas, and takes more volume to achieve the same engine power as pump gas.

I really question the actual tangible (term used loosely....) "savings".

Never been a fan. Likely never will.

Alas I digress.

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Quote from: bpd1151 on December 13, 2018, 09:17:02 AM
To this day I still am left wondering why so many rave about E85 being "cheap".

It gets worse mileage than pump gas, and takes more volume to achieve the same engine power as pump gas.

I really question the actual tangible (term used loosely....) "savings".

Never been a fan. Likely never will.

Alas I digress.

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There are many factors that contribute to people loving E85.  Certain geographic regions have different fuel as we all know. For instance here in AZ we do not have 93 octane.  We only have 91 octane.  It is also extremely hot (115+).  My IAT's during the summer get into the high 170's. Couple that with only 91 octane there is no way around having a tune that makes me happy without getting pre-ignition. 

On a E30 tune under the same conditions with more boost I have zero knock and I am happy.  My car tune only almost cracked 400AWHP in 100 degree heat with only a AJPTurbo E30 tune, K&N drop in, and 542 plugs. It also goes into mid 12's (50's) at full weight like a bracket car.  I bet with more seat time, I can get it into the 12.30 range, we will see in January. 

With E85:

The Octane is higher, cooling properties are better, it has the ability to make more power than pump gas here.  All of my boosted cars have run on the E(whatever) because they stay cooler and they run better. I also don't daily my SHO, so the decrease in fuel mileage is a non factor for me. Also look at the math. 19 gallons at $3.33 a gallon (91) is $63.65. 10 gallons at $3.33 a gallon is $33.30 + 9 gallons of E50 (pump E85 for me) at $2.59 a gallon $23.30 = $56.61  $56.61/63.65=88%.  That is 12 percent cheaper.  My SHO on 91 gets right a 400 miles per tank usually 21 mpg.  On E30 it gets 340 ish at 17.8 ish mpg. So 17.8/21= 84.7% a 16 percent drop in mileage. If I can get away with running straight E50 it will only cost me 19 gallons at $2.59 = $49.21 making my personal use of it even more justified.  So I am literally breaking even with price per mileage.  My car runs harder, does not have any knock, and I have peace of mind. Plus testing pump E85 is super easy.   

I will upgrade the HPFP one of these days.  I don't want have to worry about a meth system that is solely used as another fuel source. I would only install one on my car to clean the valves.  The more I see and hear about certain meth tunes, the more I realize for my application I went with the right choice. Plus my car makes as much HP and TQ in crap DA and heat that most Meth cars do......at lower boost and lower RPM.

For me there is no other choice. 

The picture I added was my hot E30 tune on a 360 mile drive to CA averaging 82 mph.

That explanation's appreciated sm105k. My comment(s) were/are just an overall generalization across the board. Not directed at you specifically. Just to be clear.

Makes sense I suppose if there's truly no other alternative. But I still have, and will continue to have, my own reservations. For a myriad of reasons.

I equate it with putting lipstick on a pig. Dress it up as much as one can, but in the end, it's still a pig. LOL.

Moving along......



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Quote from: bpd1151 on December 13, 2018, 10:12:19 AM
That explanation's appreciated sm105k. My comment(s) were/are just an overall generalization across the board. Not directed at you specifically. Just to be clear.

Makes sense I suppose if there's truly no other alternative. But I still have, and will continue to have, my own reservations. For a myriad of reasons.

I equate it with putting lipstick on a pig. Dress it up as much as one can, but in the end, it's still a pig. LOL.

Moving along......



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BPD I know they weren't.  It is just easier for me to explain things out and why my justifications are the way they are. If I could get 93 and it ran the same way my E30 tune runs, I would run the 93 octane.  However, AZ has dogs**t for pump gas.  If I could drive my car around with 100 unleaded race fuel I would. However, at 8 to 9 dollars a gallon and $170 dollars a fill up it isn't feasible.  E50 is plentiful, cheap, and works for my application.     

Quote from: bpd1151 on December 13, 2018, 10:12:19 AM
That explanation's appreciated sm105k. My comment(s) were/are just an overall generalization across the board. Not directed at you specifically. Just to be clear.

Makes sense I suppose if there's truly no other alternative. But I still have, and will continue to have, my own reservations. For a myriad of reasons.

I equate it with putting lipstick on a pig. Dress it up as much as one can, but in the end, it's still a pig. LOL.

Moving along......



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Quit being a grump!


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Also, you don't HAVE to have the HPFP upgrade to run E30.

You need a tuner willing to tune for it such as AJPTurbo. The HPFP gives you a cushion to run heavier E-Mixes all year round... set and forget reliability.

Jordan has ticked off consistent 11's with AJPturbos E30 tune on the stock HPFP.

It's all in what you are willing to deal with.


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 01:08:57 PMQuit being a grump!

Ha! That made me laugh. Which was needed btw, so thank you for that there BJ.

No grumpiness here. Just don't like the E. Never have. Which is why I said earlier.....

"Alas, I digress".



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Quote from: bpd1151 on December 13, 2018, 01:15:01 PM



Ha! That made me laugh. Which was needed btw, so thank you for that there BJ.

No grumpiness here. Just don't like the E. Never have. Which is why I said earlier.....

"Alas, I digress".

All right. I'm going to steer a little off subject here. But I've been meaning to mention as a Trekkie myself... Anytime I read your post BDP..  I read them and hear them as the voice of Data... Quite absurd isn't it Captain?😂

Ok carry on with this great discussion. Thanks for all the input guys. 👍

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 01:11:38 PM
Also, you don't HAVE to have the HPFP upgrade to run E30.

You need a tuner willing to tune for it such as AJPTurbo. The HPFP gives you a cushion to run heavier E-Mixes all year round... set and forget reliability.

Jordan has ticked off consistent 11's with AJPturbos E30 tune on the stock HPFP.

It's all in what you are willing to deal with.


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This is completely true.  I want to try and click off a 11.9x down the road with a stock HPFP, E30/or 100 octane, DP's, 3rd cat delete, and Intercooler at full weight.....

Quote from: sm105k on December 13, 2018, 01:49:02 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 01:11:38 PM
Also, you don't HAVE to have the HPFP upgrade to run E30.

You need a tuner willing to tune for it such as AJPTurbo. The HPFP gives you a cushion to run heavier E-Mixes all year round... set and forget reliability.

Jordan has ticked off consistent 11's with AJPturbos E30 tune on the stock HPFP.

It's all in what you are willing to deal with.


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This is completely true.  I want to try and click off a 11.9x down the road with a stock HPFP, E30/or 100 octane, DP's, 3rd cat delete, and Intercooler at full weight.....

Daily without an interior forever and technically you'll always be at your full weight ;) Ha! Race fuel absolutely helps. I need to make it out early spring in the lower DA and see what she can do. The 11.98 I ran on e30 was hot hot hot!

Quote from: Jordan on December 13, 2018, 05:20:34 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 13, 2018, 01:49:02 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 01:11:38 PM
Also, you don't HAVE to have the HPFP upgrade to run E30.

You need a tuner willing to tune for it such as AJPTurbo. The HPFP gives you a cushion to run heavier E-Mixes all year round... set and forget reliability.

Jordan has ticked off consistent 11's with AJPturbos E30 tune on the stock HPFP.

It's all in what you are willing to deal with.


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This is completely true.  I want to try and click off a 11.9x down the road with a stock HPFP, E30/or 100 octane, DP's, 3rd cat delete, and Intercooler at full weight.....

Daily without an interior forever and technically you'll always be at your full weight ;) Ha! Race fuel absolutely helps. I need to make it out early spring in the lower DA and see what she can do. The 11.98 I ran on e30 was hot hot hot!

Mine should be up and running the end of next week.  So.....yeah. Hopefully hit the track mid January.  I think I have a change at the 11 second clip with some upgrades and maybe a smaller driver....lol.

I have been scrolling through this great thread but how many have been able to hit the 11's benchmark without weight reduction! Sorry a bit off Topic. Z

Quote from: bpd1151 on December 13, 2018, 09:17:02 AM
To this day I still am left wondering why so many rave about E85 being "cheap".

It gets worse mileage than pump gas, and takes more volume to achieve the same engine power as pump gas.

I really question the actual tangible (term used loosely....) "savings".

Never been a fan. Likely never will.

Alas I digress.

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E85 here in Pa costs $1.99 a gallon atm. 93 premium costs $1.30 MORE a gallon. Not hard to figure out what saves you money. 15mpg around town vs 20mpg around town. 20mpg on the highway vs 25mpg on the highway.

The Savings Are Very Tangible.

Quote from: ZSHO on December 13, 2018, 06:51:02 PM
I have been scrolling through this great thread but how many have been able to hit the 11's benchmark without weight reduction! Sorry a bit off Topic. Z

1

I forgot 802SHO is spraying meth.


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 07:25:29 PM

Quote from: ZSHO on December 13, 2018, 06:51:02 PM
I have been scrolling through this great thread but how many have been able to hit the 11's benchmark without weight reduction! Sorry a bit off Topic. Z

1

I forgot 802SHO is spraying meth.


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Hey!  Leave us meth heads out of this 😝

Quote from: 802SHO on December 13, 2018, 08:26:30 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 07:25:29 PM

Quote from: ZSHO on December 13, 2018, 06:51:02 PM
I have been scrolling through this great thread but how many have been able to hit the 11's benchmark without weight reduction! Sorry a bit off Topic. Z

1

I forgot 802SHO is spraying meth.


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Hey!  Leave us meth heads out of this

Acknowledgement is the first step... if I was able to get off meth, anyone can!


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 08:36:10 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 13, 2018, 08:26:30 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 07:25:29 PM

Quote from: ZSHO on December 13, 2018, 06:51:02 PM
I have been scrolling through this great thread but how many have been able to hit the 11's benchmark without weight reduction! Sorry a bit off Topic. Z

1

I forgot 802SHO is spraying meth.


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Hey!  Leave us meth heads out of this

Acknowledgement is the first step... if I was able to get off meth, anyone can!


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I can't I won't I need more!!!!  More is better!!!!  Who says better? 

Quote from: bpd1151 on December 13, 2018, 01:15:01 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 01:08:57 PMQuit being a grump!

Ha! That made me laugh. Which was needed btw, so thank you for that there BJ.

No grumpiness here. Just don't like the E. Never have. Which is why I said earlier.....

"Alas, I digress".



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I also dislike e85 as a 100% fuel source,  like you im a bit older.  It's more to do with how we source it in the US for me coupled with how it was 'brought to market' and is 'subsidized' leaving many to think its better, cleaner and cheaper which it definatley is not.

As a race fuel if you are set up for it and can get true e85 every time such as from solvent shops its great stuff.  But from the pump ... i have seen way to much variation in the mixes even from the likes of 76', chevron and Texaco. 

Quote from: TopherSho on December 14, 2018, 09:13:29 AM

Quote from: bpd1151 on December 13, 2018, 01:15:01 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 01:08:57 PMQuit being a grump!

Ha! That made me laugh. Which was needed btw, so thank you for that there BJ.

No grumpiness here. Just don't like the E. Never have. Which is why I said earlier.....

"Alas, I digress".



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I also dislike e85 as a 100% fuel source,  like you im a bit older.  It's more to do with how we source it in the US for me coupled with how it was 'brought to market' and is 'subsidized' leaving many to think its better, cleaner and cheaper which it definatley is not.

As a race fuel if you are set up for it and can get true e85 every time such as from solvent shops its great stuff.  But from the pump ... i have seen way to much variation in the mixes even from the likes of 76', chevron and Texaco.

You sir, read my mind all to well.

Scary.

I agree with your sentiments on the subject matter.

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Quote from: TopherSho on December 14, 2018, 09:13:29 AM

Quote from: bpd1151 on December 13, 2018, 01:15:01 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 13, 2018, 01:08:57 PMQuit being a grump!

Ha! That made me laugh. Which was needed btw, so thank you for that there BJ.

No grumpiness here. Just don't like the E. Never have. Which is why I said earlier.....

"Alas, I digress".



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I also dislike e85 as a 100% fuel source,  like you im a bit older.  It's more to do with how we source it in the US for me coupled with how it was 'brought to market' and is 'subsidized' leaving many to think its better, cleaner and cheaper which it definatley is not.

As a race fuel if you are set up for it and can get true e85 every time such as from solvent shops its great stuff.  But from the pump ... i have seen way to much variation in the mixes even from the likes of 76', chevron and Texaco.

This is exactly why I don't run my wild E30 tune on pump E products.  For that tune I run Torco T85 mixed only with Qwik Trip 91 octane.  However, that my change down the road.  Also another reason why I test any E product going into my car.

Quote from: ZSHO on December 13, 2018, 06:51:02 PM
I have been scrolling through this great thread but how many have been able to hit the 11's benchmark without weight reduction! Sorry a bit off Topic. Z

From what I read so far 2?  BPD and 802?  I want it on either E30 or race fuel.  Stock long block, stock turbos, full bolt on's (DP's, 3rd cat delete, intercooler, and possibly a HPFP) at full weight! If I can get my current set up into the 12.30's (down from a 12.56) I think it is 100 percent obtainable.  Considering I had a boost reference line pop off, and the throttle was closing during my 12.56 pass. The car only went 108 mph on the big end (down for 111 to 112) . With the a 1.77 sixty foot and my normal  MPH I see a 12.30 in good D.A. tune only.

Former SHO owners and forum members Darreli, and FirstSHO also hit 11's w/o any weight reduction.

Trying to remember who else.......

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The 11's was within my grasps @ CCD with Manu! I guess as 802SHO allluded too I should of ran a few more runs but didn't want to add insult to injury as I thought my PTU was to blame for the wheel hop!!!
I should of dropped the tires a bit more on close to half a tank of fuel.  Z

Hmmm I like the way this reads but unfortunately no I have not hit an 11 at full weight.  I'll break it down from full weight best to lightest best.  Interesting that my personal best is NOT the lightest. 

Full Weight 12.06
Back seats removed only 11.83
Back seats, front passenger seat, glove box emptied, engine cover removed, no head rest or floor mats 11.94.

For the record I have shared this info previously.  All of those runs were the same tune.  So no changes in tune, I did experiment with some weight reduction and started messing with tire pressure.  I think whatever happened with that 11.83 with the rear seats out...curious that would have been a run at full weight at some sort of 11.9.  Thats only speculation. 

Time will tell.  And folks this was all with 93 octane.  Not pure, this is the pump 93 E10.  And with my single nozzle Alky Control Meth Injection kit purchased from Livernois and of course only 100% VP M1. 

Quote from: 802SHO on December 14, 2018, 12:27:39 PM
Hmmm I like the way this reads but unfortunately no I have not hit an 11 at full weight.  I'll break it down from full weight best to lightest best.  Interesting that my personal best is NOT the lightest. 

Full Weight 12.06
Back seats removed only 11.83
Back seats, front passenger seat, glove box emptied, engine cover removed, no head rest or floor mats 11.94.

For the record I have shared this info previously.  All of those runs were the same tune.  So no changes in tune, I did experiment with some weight reduction and started messing with tire pressure.  I think whatever happened with that 11.83 with the rear seats out...curious that would have been a run at full weight at some sort of 11.9.  Thats only speculation. 

Time will tell.  And folks this was all with 93 octane.  Not pure, this is the pump 93 E10.  And with my single nozzle Alky Control Meth Injection kit purchased from Livernois and of course only 100% VP M1.

See this gives me hope and justification.

Quote from: sm105k on December 14, 2018, 01:34:02 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 14, 2018, 12:27:39 PM
Hmmm I like the way this reads but unfortunately no I have not hit an 11 at full weight.  I'll break it down from full weight best to lightest best.  Interesting that my personal best is NOT the lightest. 

Full Weight 12.06
Back seats removed only 11.83
Back seats, front passenger seat, glove box emptied, engine cover removed, no head rest or floor mats 11.94.

For the record I have shared this info previously.  All of those runs were the same tune.  So no changes in tune, I did experiment with some weight reduction and started messing with tire pressure.  I think whatever happened with that 11.83 with the rear seats out...curious that would have been a run at full weight at some sort of 11.9.  Thats only speculation. 

Time will tell.  And folks this was all with 93 octane.  Not pure, this is the pump 93 E10.  And with my single nozzle Alky Control Meth Injection kit purchased from Livernois and of course only 100% VP M1.

See this gives me hope and justification.

I think you'll hit your mark...or it will be so close it'll drive you insane!  When all the moon's align...Excellent tune, DA, track prep, tires slightly soft, near perfect launch resulting in new PB 60ft with 50 miles to empty or less...anything can happen. 

I have a feeling with this intercooler coming out you are going to see a lot more stock turbo sho's in the 11's

Quote from: shoNoff on December 15, 2018, 04:42:56 PM
I have a feeling with this intercooler coming out you are going to see a lot more stock turbo sho's in the 11's

I would say you need around 16+ psi of boost and about 20-22 degrees of spark...But there are still some variables on top of that..If not using meth, you may or may not have the fuel to support that...And if not using meth you have to hope that the intercooler will cool off the aircharge to support that spark and even if the aircharge is super cool you still may not be able to support that spark level on 93...Then if you add ethanol for octane you will hurt fuel flow even more

Basically if using stock turbos you have to rely on having spark to get you to the power level to run the 11's because you don't have the airflow to make the horsepower to get to 11's...But there are a few ways to skin this cat.

Intercooler and turbos and 93 might work well...Same reason turbo upgrades on the stock fuel system makes sense even though people think turbos are pointless on stock fuel system.....You can make more horsepower due to airflow but the lower boost makes less torque but you gain in flow which has alot to do with HP which also helps 1/4 mile times.


I think you see that in the dyno's from larger turbos...More HP but less TQ and more peaky gains which is good for 1/4 mile.  OK I'm rambling now.

I wonder what AJP would be able to do with that HPFP? 🤔 So let me ask this... Would a less efficient (volume) yet aggressive full E85 tune out perform a 93+meth tune all other things EQUAL? There seems to be and intersecting point in said options. Two different paths for the same results?

I ran straight E85, engine loves it.

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Quote from: EcoPowerParts on December 16, 2018, 08:52:34 PM
I ran straight E85, engine loves it.

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Troll.... not all of us drive Tremors.. or have a full auxiliary setup :-D


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I had it on my flex, just have to do the work :)

Quote from: EcoPowerParts on December 17, 2018, 09:02:18 AM
I had it on my flex, just have to do the work :)

Yea... I just want a drop in canister solution lol..


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Unfortunately I can't get my old supplier to put on the pump setup any more which was a drop in solution in the tank.
Need the 65 DI pump and injectors from my understanding. We'll see on my Tremor one day :)

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 12, 2018, 01:23:34 PM

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 12, 2018, 01:20:16 PM
So if you have a sufficient aftermarket HPFP (more volume/psi)... Whats preventing guys from running straight E85? After speaking with a tuner (intentionally unnamed), E85 would only be tuned/used in conjunction with meth injection... which to me seems counter productive as far as wanting to avoid using meth altogether... Still running out of fuel at that point? Injectors limits? Engine hp limit?

So you talked to LMS... but I digress...

We have the injectors and the pump. The fuel lines are adequate according the Gearhead. The part that is holding us up is the in tank low pressure pumps that sit in the saddle. They are your basic canister style fuel pumps which if we had a shop willing to look at them, could be an easy fix.

I had a spare pump I sent to BPD1151 for reconditioning and I THINK to be possibly modified to support more fuel flow.

That's it at this point I believe....


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I have installed a port injection (auxiliary) kit with a radium spacer, Bosch injectors, controller and b/t ethanol sensor. Running straight e85 on my RS. Is fine with OEM fuel pump but does require upgraded lines and, obviously, a tune (that you flash to the accessport and the port injection controller).  (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181218/fb04fe7906d2b4ac019c775749f5396b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181218/93f90ec97391f72015d449bf759e5fc2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181218/186905233b7b96a99f6202c3bf7af830.jpg)


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Welcome to the community, Warriormonx!  Do intro yourself here
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,14.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,14.0.html)

Yea... It seems to be two walls we hit at the injectors and Lpfp (lift pump)... Just don't really see spending 1700k on a hpfp to run E30 only.

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 18, 2018, 12:20:22 PM
Yea... It seems to be two walls we hit at the injectors and Lpfp (lift pump)... Just don't really see spending 1700k on a hpfp to run E30 only.

I run E30 with a stock fuel system. My car is down for upgrades (tranny) but I don't forsee any issues using the E30 blend during the winter here in PHX, but only the data logs will tell. 

Quote from: sm105k on December 18, 2018, 12:50:16 PM

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 18, 2018, 12:20:22 PM
Yea... It seems to be two walls we hit at the injectors and Lpfp (lift pump)... Just don't really see spending 1700k on a hpfp to run E30 only.

I run E30 with a stock fuel system. My car is down for upgrades (tranny) but I don't forsee any issues using the E30 blend during the winter here in PHX, but only the data logs will tell.

Yes... That's the route I am leaning with AJP. I have to send him a shout out for being very helpful in emails and putting in effort on his end to help me out. I am a little worried that my oem HPFP may be a bit of a dud as it seems to hit the issues sooner than most (plus SATX cold is not Michigan cold). But no way for me to know without data logs having gone the livernois route.

Brad will not steer you wrong.

Wait, Brad is tuning steering systems too?  That would be cool :P

Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 18, 2018, 01:08:00 PMYes... That's the route I am leaning with AJP. I have to send him a shout out for being very helpful in emails and putting in effort on his end to help me out. I am a little worried that my oem HPFP may be a bit of a dud as it seems to hit the issues sooner than most (plus SATX cold is not Michigan cold). But no way for me to know without data logs having gone the livernois route.

Plenty of people run E30 on the Ecoboost without HPFP. That seems to be the sweet spot. And it Sure makes a difference from my Butt dyno thats for sure.

Also from my understanding of tuner people. Some are more efficient/better than others at fuel tables, boost application/tables etc. I have seen the same car have no fuel issues with one guy and fuel issues on the same car with another guy (making less power too).

Pardon me if this is off topic but is anyone currently running an E30 blend with Meth or is anyone on here running straight E85 on meth?  I know Livernois mentioned they have at least one customer that is.  Curious if they are a member here.  Anyway, what could be gained by combining the two? 

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 04:47:18 AM
Pardon me if this is off topic but is anyone currently running an E30 blend with Meth or is anyone on here running straight E85 on meth?  I know Livernois mentioned they have at least one customer that is.  Curious if they are a member here.  Anyway, what could be gained by combining the two?

I know some of my turbo LS guys run E85 and Meth.  They are both alcohol based fuels that work well together.

Quote from: sm105k on December 19, 2018, 12:35:26 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 04:47:18 AM
Pardon me if this is off topic but is anyone currently running an E30 blend with Meth or is anyone on here running straight E85 on meth?  I know Livernois mentioned they have at least one customer that is.  Curious if they are a member here.  Anyway, what could be gained by combining the two?

I know some of my turbo LS guys run E85 and Meth.  They are both alcohol based fuels that work well together.

Brad was on here earlier I was hoping he would chime in.  So yes I'm assuming if an E30 tune is better by the seat of the pants dyno 93 tune...and meth is better than 93 only...wouldnt an E30 Meth tune be better?  Old rule that more is better I'm hoping applies here.....

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 12:51:50 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 19, 2018, 12:35:26 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 04:47:18 AM
Pardon me if this is off topic but is anyone currently running an E30 blend with Meth or is anyone on here running straight E85 on meth?  I know Livernois mentioned they have at least one customer that is.  Curious if they are a member here.  Anyway, what could be gained by combining the two?

I know some of my turbo LS guys run E85 and Meth.  They are both alcohol based fuels that work well together.

Brad was on here earlier I was hoping he would chime in.  So yes I'm assuming if an E30 tune is better by the seat of the pants dyno 93 tune...and meth is better than 93 only...wouldnt an E30 Meth tune be better?  Old rule that more is better I'm hoping applies here.....

I am willing to bet it is better.

Quote from: sm105k on December 19, 2018, 01:19:56 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 12:51:50 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 19, 2018, 12:35:26 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 04:47:18 AM
Pardon me if this is off topic but is anyone currently running an E30 blend with Meth or is anyone on here running straight E85 on meth?  I know Livernois mentioned they have at least one customer that is.  Curious if they are a member here.  Anyway, what could be gained by combining the two?

I know some of my turbo LS guys run E85 and Meth.  They are both alcohol based fuels that work well together.

Brad was on here earlier I was hoping he would chime in.  So yes I'm assuming if an E30 tune is better by the seat of the pants dyno 93 tune...and meth is better than 93 only...wouldnt an E30 Meth tune be better?  Old rule that more is better I'm hoping applies here.....

I am willing to bet it is better.

My tuner certainly recommended the e30 + meth or straight e85 rather than e85 + meth


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Quote from: Warriormonx on December 19, 2018, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 19, 2018, 01:19:56 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 12:51:50 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 19, 2018, 12:35:26 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 04:47:18 AM
Pardon me if this is off topic but is anyone currently running an E30 blend with Meth or is anyone on here running straight E85 on meth?  I know Livernois mentioned they have at least one customer that is.  Curious if they are a member here.  Anyway, what could be gained by combining the two?

I know some of my turbo LS guys run E85 and Meth.  They are both alcohol based fuels that work well together.

Brad was on here earlier I was hoping he would chime in.  So yes I'm assuming if an E30 tune is better by the seat of the pants dyno 93 tune...and meth is better than 93 only...wouldnt an E30 Meth tune be better?  Old rule that more is better I'm hoping applies here.....

I am willing to bet it is better.

My tuner certainly recommended the e30 + meth or straight e85 rather than e85 + meth


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Straight E85 instead of E85+Meth?  I wonder why?

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 01:57:41 PM

Quote from: Warriormonx on December 19, 2018, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 19, 2018, 01:19:56 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 12:51:50 PM

Quote from: sm105k on December 19, 2018, 12:35:26 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 04:47:18 AM
Pardon me if this is off topic but is anyone currently running an E30 blend with Meth or is anyone on here running straight E85 on meth?  I know Livernois mentioned they have at least one customer that is.  Curious if they are a member here.  Anyway, what could be gained by combining the two?

I know some of my turbo LS guys run E85 and Meth.  They are both alcohol based fuels that work well together.

Brad was on here earlier I was hoping he would chime in.  So yes I'm assuming if an E30 tune is better by the seat of the pants dyno 93 tune...and meth is better than 93 only...wouldnt an E30 Meth tune be better?  Old rule that more is better I'm hoping applies here.....

I am willing to bet it is better.

My tuner certainly recommended the e30 + meth or straight e85 rather than e85 + meth


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Straight E85 instead of E85+Meth?  I wonder why?

I didn't push it - he can be a little prickly. I would imagine that the complexity of ECU controls to achieve a balance between meth and the aux rail / injectors might be a little risky?


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Sounds very complex for a tuner thats for sure.  What would be any pros or cons running a blend like E30 with Meth?  StealBlueSHO where are you?

Quote from: 802SHO on December 19, 2018, 02:46:52 PM
Sounds very complex for a tuner thats for sure.  What would be any pros or cons running a blend like E30 with Meth?  StealBlueSHO where are you?

Personally, I love the idea of meth. Great for warmer climates to really reduce intake temps - that and you get a steam clean for your cylinders. Awesome. Add higher octane fuel with e30 and I reckon the RS would be really happy.


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It's easy really...

E85 effective octane rating and knock resistance makes as good as race gas. And it cools the cylinder charge quite a bit based on a studies. You can get A LOT of power out of E85. And it's simple if you can run it. Fill and go. Heat isn't a big deal from what I know.

E30 gets you close but not quite there. You can push more power than our motors can take with E30. But you need to monitor the mixes etc... and your still running into heat issues so a lot of tuners don't like turning it upto 11 without a way to control the heat.

E30 + meth allows you to get the advantages of E85 plus the cooling of meth. This is more beneficial so you can run higher boost/timing allowed by the E30 and get the cooling of meth...the advantage is you are not leaning on the meth to keep knock away, you can use it more for cooling.



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Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 20, 2018, 06:02:28 AM
It's easy really...

E85 effective octane rating and knock resistance makes as good as race gas. And it cools the cylinder charge quite a bit based on a studies. You can get A LOT of power out of E85. And it's simple if you can run it. Fill and go. Heat isn't a big deal from what I know.

E30 gets you close but not quite there. You can push more power than our motors can take with E30. But you need to monitor the mixes etc... and your still running into heat issues so a lot of tuners don't like turning it upto 11 without a way to control the heat.

E30 + meth allows you to get the advantages of E85 plus the cooling of meth. This is more beneficial so you can run higher boost/timing allowed by the E30 and get the cooling of meth...the advantage is you are not leaning on the meth to keep knock away, you can use it more for cooling.



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So basically if I can get the mix down, this would be an excellent fuel set up.  I think I know what I'll be doing next.  Thank you kind Sir for your input. 

A barrel of pure E85 isn't too expensive.  I could mix that with 93 and do my own testing for E30. 

Storage is the problem, just like with methanol.  As long as you are familiar with it, good to go.

Quote from: SHOdded on December 20, 2018, 08:31:23 AM
Storage is the problem, just like with methanol.  As long as you are familiar with it, good to go.

Exactly... alcohol attracts water. That's the problem with long term storage of those products.


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 20, 2018, 08:36:08 AM

Quote from: SHOdded on December 20, 2018, 08:31:23 AM
Storage is the problem, just like with methanol.  As long as you are familiar with it, good to go.

Exactly... alcohol attracts water. That's the problem with long term storage of those products.


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In some cases a Bit of Fuel stabilizer might help! I think VP recommends to add a bit for long term storage IIRC.  Z 

Quote from: ZSHO on December 20, 2018, 08:45:47 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 20, 2018, 08:36:08 AM

Quote from: SHOdded on December 20, 2018, 08:31:23 AM
Storage is the problem, just like with methanol.  As long as you are familiar with it, good to go.

Exactly... alcohol attracts water. That's the problem with long term storage of those products.


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In some cases a Bit of Fuel stabilizer might help! I think VP recommends to add a bit for long term storage IIRC.  Z

My plan would be to purchase in the spring and use it up all summer into fall.  I'll put some stabilizer in it for the hell of it.

Fortunate for us here in Australia there is a major retailer who has e85 on the bowser. Pretty solid ethanol content too. This reading was taken with around 5% 98 RON in the tank when I filled up. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/c2b52531dc6af9e1903feef36fcb8caa.jpg)


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Quote from: Warriormonx on December 20, 2018, 05:46:46 PM
Fortunate for us here in Australia there is a major retailer who has e85 on the bowser. Pretty solid ethanol content too. This reading was taken with around 5% 98 RON in the tank when I filled up. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/c2b52531dc6af9e1903feef36fcb8caa.jpg)


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That's cool!  I'm a bit jealous, there is no E85 anywhere here in Vermont.  I think one 55 gal drum would last me all season though...I pretty much drive to the track and the gym with it..spring to fall. 

Quote from: 802SHO on December 20, 2018, 06:12:04 PM

Quote from: Warriormonx on December 20, 2018, 05:46:46 PM
Fortunate for us here in Australia there is a major retailer who has e85 on the bowser. Pretty solid ethanol content too. This reading was taken with around 5% 98 RON in the tank when I filled up. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/c2b52531dc6af9e1903feef36fcb8caa.jpg)


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That's cool!  I'm a bit jealous, there is no E85 anywhere here in Vermont.  I think one 55 gal drum would last me all season though...I pretty much drive to the track and the gym with it..spring to fall.

Mine is a daily at the mo, however certainly rethinking this - car is a bit serious now and ethanol not exactly good on mileage.


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Quote from: Warriormonx on December 20, 2018, 06:13:51 PM

Quote from: 802SHO on December 20, 2018, 06:12:04 PM

Quote from: Warriormonx on December 20, 2018, 05:46:46 PM
Fortunate for us here in Australia there is a major retailer who has e85 on the bowser. Pretty solid ethanol content too. This reading was taken with around 5% 98 RON in the tank when I filled up. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/c2b52531dc6af9e1903feef36fcb8caa.jpg)


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That's cool!  I'm a bit jealous, there is no E85 anywhere here in Vermont.  I think one 55 gal drum would last me all season though...I pretty much drive to the track and the gym with it..spring to fall.

Mine is a daily at the mo, however certainly rethinking this - car is a bit serious now and ethanol not exactly good on mileage.


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Which is why I just picked up a Ford Fiesta to daily... the cost difference per mile between the SHO and the Fiesta is break even at 15K a year by keeping the SHO and buying the fiesta... if that makes sense... lol...

Basically by not driving the sho for a DD, the money is break even buying a fiesta and DD it instead.


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Snap - looking at a Fiesta ST as a daily. Only issue is that based on my history I will probably start modding that as well


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Quote from: Warriormonx on December 20, 2018, 06:19:32 PM
Snap - looking at a Fiesta ST as a daily. Only issue is that based on my history I will probably start modding that as well


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Yup... EXACTLY why I got the SE.. takes the modding bug out of it.


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