I need to fill the 3 empty holes in my center gauge pod. I want ford racing gauges, and nothing else.
1) Boost.
2) oil or fuel pressure? Which one, pros and cons for both?
3) I originally wanted an air/fuel gauge. But Ford Racing doesn't have one. But I read that a pyrometer can be used to monitor air/fuel: if the EGT is hot, running rich. EGT cold, running lean. Am I correct? I would like to be able to keep an eye on this since I am going to tune and mod, eventually, and I have had a bad experience with a tuner in the past. I just want to make sure my SHO is running good.
Thanks.
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I have boost, water temp and oil pressure... Oil pressure is useless for me. I may change it for air-fuel ratio eventually... This is the second pod I buy from crash (Chris Curtis) and been having These three gauges for almost two years now. Prosports gauges. First were with "needle" now digital...
Monitoring EGT's is fairly useless. High EGT's can be a sign of a lean tune or a tune that has a lot of engine knock and timing retard because of the lean condition. But I have also seen high EGTs from extremely rich condition and possible knock from that....
I have had a EGT probe and gauge in my Talon for years and I never use it anymore.
Three gauges that are a must are wide band o2, fuel pressure and boost
Quote from: Frozen Taurus on November 19, 2013, 06:21:33 PM
Monitoring EGT's is fairly useless. High EGT's can be a sign of a lean tune or a tune that has a lot of engine knock and timing retard because of the lean condition. But I have also seen high EGTs from extremely rich condition and possible knock from that....
I have had a EGT probe and gauge in my Talon for years and I never use it anymore.
Three gauges that are a must are wide band o2, fuel pressure and boost
Please elaborate on the wide band and it's importance.
Wide band readings are actual AF ratios coming out of your engine....you get instant feedback on what's going with your engine under WOT conditions
I hear you there I was the same way when I saw the Ford racing gauges. In my opinion just about all gauges are mostly aesthetics. But answer to one of your question a fuel pressure gauge I don't think would be beneficial as I don't think there is a gauge available to display DI fuel pressures which in our case would read beyond 2000psi. However you could monitor lift pump fuel pressure, but its not ideally what you'd be after.
Now with that all said, don't for get about Autometer custom shop. You can design your own gauges.
Here some gauges I designed for 2010-2012 taurus sho.
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l583/crash712us/file_zpsbf74512d.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/crash712us/media/file_zpsbf74512d.jpg.html)
Quote from: crash712us on November 19, 2013, 09:30:42 PM
But answer to one of your question a fuel pressure gauge I don't think would be beneficial as I don't think there is a gauge available to display DI fuel pressures which in our case would read beyond 2000psi. However you could monitor lift pump fuel pressure, but its not ideally what you'd be after.
Here some gauges I designed for 2010-2012 taurus sho.
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l583/crash712us/file_zpsbf74512d.jpg) (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/crash712us/media/file_zpsbf74512d.jpg.html)
Yes not sure there is anything that can handle that kinda of pressure as far as sending units go....nor would I want to plumb one into the fuel system in case of a leak :crazy:
So boost, wideband and oil pressure or EGT? How would I interpret the wideband? What should the air/fuel be? Does it change with different tunes? How do I know what it should be? Sorry for all the "newbie" questions, I'm not well versed on this subject.
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At idle WB readings will sweep back and forth around 14.7:1 .... under WOT it will stop sweeping and land at desired AF ratio according to the tune. I tune for 11.3:1 on pump gas but will go leaner with methanol injection...more like 11.7:1.
Some tuners stay on the rich side 10.2:1 ... but that's a little too safe I think
Quote from: FracaSHO on November 19, 2013, 09:38:25 PM
So boost, wideband and oil pressure or EGT? How would I interpret the wideband? What should the air/fuel be? Does it change with different tunes? How do I know what it should be? Sorry for all the "newbie" questions, I'm not well versed on this subject.
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With A/F ratio's 14.1 is stoich meaning this would be the happy medium not to rich and not to lean. Lower numbers less then 14 are rich, higher number above 14 are lean. So at idle fully warmed up you should see near 14 also at a cruise, at WOT it will probably drop to the 10's and under deceleration with throttle closed will go extremely lean. But whats important is you never go lean while under a load.
So if I go with a boost and wideband, what should my third gauge be?
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My choice for #3 would be oil pressure. Better than an idiot light and better chance of preventing destruction of lubricated engine parts/mods.
X2 on the oil pressure gauge.
I see no point in running an AFR gauge unless you have a warning light setup on it. How are you going to watch the gauge when you're WOT and say racing. A single EGT gauge isn't all that useful either, should be ready individual port EGTs.
Oil temps would be a good gauge especially if you plan on running a lower thermostat. You want to make sure your oil is up to temp prior to beating on the car or making sure its not too hot. Maybe a water/math fail safe gauge with warning light and a trans temp gauge will be my other two.Oil pressure might not be a bad idea.
It's kind of funny reading all the back -n- forth discussion on what gauges are needed, or for what basis a particular gauge is "necessary" (or not) versus any other gauge.
I tend to think that each of us who have the ability to run any extra gauges whatsoever, will choose what each thinks is best for their own application.
Different owners will have differing reasons for running w/e it is that they choose to.... it's an argument that is somewhat akin to what brands or weights, or types of oil to use.
All that said, each gauge will obviously monitor said specific parameter it was designed/intended for....
Reading over the (some) of the posts contained in this thread, I would say that going forward, subsequent posters should keep in mind, that an articulation of what each gauge is designed to perform, as well as why it may be important to monitor said parameter, would hold significantly more weight, than simply interjecting an unsupported opinion on what is better, and what is useless, or there's no need to monitor blah blah blah and so on and so on.....
Here's a pic of my set up as it sits to this day:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/Chicago%20Assembly%20Plant%20Shoot/BPD7-2_filtered.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/Chicago%20Assembly%20Plant%20Shoot/BPD7-2_filtered.jpg.html)
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I think you have the gauge thing covered, Mike.
I agree.. but the pic reminds me I want a t-handle shifter in my '13
I think oil temp is an important one too. Having oil to operating temp before running the piss out of it is important for engine longevity. (Check out BITOG for more info on the importance of oil temp) It's also overlapping labor with the pressure gauge install since they can both be ran off the oil filter adapter.
I have a pod sitting here and as of right now the 3 i want are
Boost (Strictly eye candy as Torque can monitor)
Oil Pressure
Oil Temp
The others I want because torque cant monitor them, at least yet.
Still considering other suggestions though...
My Head keeps spinnin round n round ...... I Got My POD from Chris a few weeks ago and STILL have not ordered My gauges ..... !?!?!? :help2:
LOL, I've been staring at mine for MONTHS!
I take an extremely cautious approach to modding. I don't like to pay for things twice.
Quote from: BiGMaC on November 20, 2013, 10:18:42 PM
I agree.. but the pic reminds me I want a t-handle shifter in my '13
We had another member try to change to the t-handle, and it doesn't work...the pieces don't fit correctly on the '13's. I purchased the parts from him, in case mine start showing wear, I can replace them...
Quote from: kbeck59 on November 24, 2013, 12:06:59 AM
My Head keeps spinnin round n round ...... I Got My POD from Chris a few weeks ago and STILL have not ordered My gauges ..... !?!?!? :help2:
Don't feel bad, I have pod #4 and still haven't decided on gauges, nor have a found anyone in my area willing to help with the install...and I've had my pod for a couple of years. Keep going back and forth on which gauges I want :banghead:
Think you guys are talking me out of the evo Gage's. but they do look nice. Gage's I'm considering for a pod to order, Boost, oil psi, and tranny temp. I like the full sweep sweep of gages and matches the technology appeal of the SHO instead of having a "standard" analog gage. just my .02 cents with change.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but oil temp is relational to water temp. Therefore separate gage is merely eye candy. So if water temp is within range, assumption would be that oil is too right? Or am I missing something?
http://prosportgauges.com/evo-series-Red-and-Blue.aspx (http://prosportgauges.com/evo-series-Red-and-Blue.aspx)
http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/MaxTow-Transmission-Temperature-Gauge.aspx (http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/MaxTow-Transmission-Temperature-Gauge.aspx)
Also, anyone know mechanic or in L.A. Area who would do or assist install?
WOW...just read through this thread again. Maybe I'll order gauges first..... then the pod... just to speed the install. :upsidedown: :rofl:
Any how to's on install of gauges? 2013 sho pp here. I am thinking boost, eng temp, trans temp
Are there existing senders you tie into, also I'm sure it's critical that gauges are connected to illumination dimmer
No Mike unfortunately after market gauges do not work like that. The is no tying into existing senders, gauges you order will come with senders needed. As for gauge wiring is pretty simple most gauges consist of a power wire, ground, lighting wire, and signal wire for the sender. So if your wiring 3 gauges the 1st 3 wires mention will all go to to the same source. Such all gauge can be powered by same source and grounded by the same ground and so on. Where they differ is where there signal wires go to the senders.
For the type of gauges you want to do if your using electric gauges a boost gauge will come with a MAP sensor, The MAP will have a pig tail and gauge will have pig tail and you fill in the wire in between and the you will tap the appropriate location into the cars vacuum lines. Its in my how to.
Engine temp gauge you will have get a adapter T the will splice in coolant hose so a sensor can be threaded into, or you will have make sensor manifold out brass plumbing hardware so you can share same location at the factory coolant sensor. I would like to do this one day myself but sense this sensor is located on the back cylinder head and will required more time to install I went the other route.
Trans temp hopefully BDP will chime in as he is the only person I know that has this gauges and I am uncertain exactly how he went about put his sender into the trans. But there many ways to accomplish this task as well such as cut into one the oil line using the right brass plumbing hardware to be able to screw your sensor into.
But back to your original question, gauges are calibrated to there sensors. So for the after market it would make sense to make gauges for specific vehicles as there would so many variances of the same gauge. Plus it been my experience on some cars the OEM maker won't even share a single sensor. Example you have car with coolant gauge, in this case your cars engine may have to coolant sensors one for the gauge and one for the ECM. Not sure why they can't be shared, but I know it just isn't done.
Quote from: Mikesb on January 05, 2014, 12:26:18 PM
I am thinking boost, eng temp, trans temp
Does "engine Temp" = coolant temp?
What made you decide against oil pressure?
Interested in folks thinking as I have a 3 gauge A pillar pod in my SHO's future.
It's kind of hard to pick three when four would be nice. Boost, Oil PSI, Engine Temp and Trans Temp. I'll live with my Torque and Nexus 7.
Mikesb..... There aren't any "How-To's" on any of the gauge installs.
They're fairly straight forward, as far as from a wiring / electrical perspective, and Crash712us detailed that explanation pretty well. Although I always laugh that he transposes my screen name (consistently) as "BDP".
Too funny. :rofl2:
You're biggest concern is where to drill through the firewall, in order to run your wiring looms, from the senders installed in the engine bay, to the actual gauges placed inside your car's interior.
In the image below, you'll see if you peer down, and into the Driver's foot well, at the firewall, to the immediate left of the where the steering wheel shaft passes through, there's a blue piece of plastic (at least on my 2010, not sure about other model year's, but likely the same).....
I used a 1-1/2" drill bit, to place hole in that area. I then used a metal file to remove most of the burr's and sharp edges, and finally placed a rubber grommet in the hole, before running the wiring through:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Meth%20Injection%20and%20Gauge%20Install/002-1.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Meth%20Injection%20and%20Gauge%20Install/002-1.jpg.html)
Wiring pulled through for various gauges, Meth PAC, etc.....
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Meth%20Injection%20and%20Gauge%20Install/005-1.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Meth%20Injection%20and%20Gauge%20Install/005-1.jpg.html)
For the Tranny Temp Gauge, I chose to use an existing port on the bottom of the trans housing.....
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Meth%20Injection%20and%20Gauge%20Install/004-3.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Meth%20Injection%20and%20Gauge%20Install/004-3.jpg.html)
For the Oil Temp Gauge, I chose to drill and tap out a unused bolt on the Auxiliary Oil Cooler.....
Notice the bolt in this image, above where the oil filter attaches:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/011_zps0b0f85aa.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/011_zps0b0f85aa.jpg.html)
Bolt removed:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/008_zps43f7aa17.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/008_zps43f7aa17.jpg.html)
Sending Unit Sensor, placed next to the removed bolt (yet to be tapped):
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/007_zpsf47b8386.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/007_zpsf47b8386.jpg.html)
Bolt drilled, tapped, and sending sensor installed:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/006_zps3913939b.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/006_zps3913939b.jpg.html)
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/007_zps1701bcf9.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/007_zps1701bcf9.jpg.html)
Entire modified piece reinstalled into Oil Auxiliary Cooler:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/009_zps5198034b.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/SHO%20Auxiliary%20OIL%20Cooler/009_zps5198034b.jpg.html)
So, as you can see from the above, there will be some leg work that you'll inevitably have to put in, in order to operate the gauges that you desire.
Not difficult, but just understand not all of the sending units/sensors are installed from the factory.
Funny you mention the need for an illumination dimmer device.
Although I have yet to install one in mine, I have noticed the need to dim the gauges since my install. They can be pretty bright, and cause a bit of glare. For now, I just deal with it.
But I have inquired with Autometer, if such a product exists, that will provide dimming control, and I was happy to have told that there is such an item available.
Autometer LED Dimmer Switch #9114 (supports up to 6 gauges):
http://autometer.com/cat_accessoriesdetail.aspx?vid=185 (http://autometer.com/cat_accessoriesdetail.aspx?vid=185)
Hopefully that answers some of your questions. If anymore should arise, post here, or shoot me a PM.
BiGMaC.....
"Engine Temp" does equate to "Engine Coolant Temp".
My ECT is monitored through the "MyCal" device, suctioned mounted to upper left portion of my windshield.
There is a factory sending unit, or sensor, that the MyCal device is able to read.
For me, deciding between an Oil Pressure Gauge, versus and Oil Temp Gauge was a fairly easy one.
Personally, I'm much more inclined to achieve that never comfortable "oh sh!t" feeling, much faster by monitoring actual oil temp, versus oil pressure.
High oil temps would signal a problem much faster, and likewise result in your decision to "shut her down" instead of an equally important oil pressure problem.
Again, this is a personal choice, but for me, I'd rather know there's a looming problem sooner with oil temp, versus potentially later, if monitoring oil pressure.
Moving along.......
What else? :hmmm:
Oh yea..... Dxlnt1.....
In regards to Oil Temp being relational to Water Temp and your perception that having a separate gauge to monitor both is mere "eye candy".....
Understand, that there is an average 25-30 degree difference between the two.
Again, this is a personal choice as to decide which is important to one's own individual preferences, but there is a marginal difference in temperatures.
All in all, no matter which gauges one chooses, certainly, the more information able to be achieved by the driver, will provide for better decision making when tracking one's car, or driving it in a rather "spirited fashion".
That said, my current setup is as follows:
In the A-Pillar Pod, I monitor Boost up top, Oil Temp below.
In the "MyCal" device, I monitor (from left to right) Battery/Voltage, IAT, and ECT.
In the Center Gauge Pod Stack, (from left to right) EGT Bank 1, Trans Temp, EGT Bank 2.
In that same Center Gauge Pod Stack, I have the LED's for the Meth Pump (on left) & Meth Low Tank (on right).
Here's an image of all of what's described above:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/bpd1151/Chicago%20Assembly%20Plant%20Shoot/BPD7-2_filtered.jpg) (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/bpd1151/media/Chicago%20Assembly%20Plant%20Shoot/BPD7-2_filtered.jpg.html)
"The Other" Mike :beer:
Any other questions let me know.
Thanks bpd.... Great reply! :thankyou:
I appreciate the time it took you... Love the pics and the great discussion of the nuances of gauge information.
BTW....hope your not too sore from the other day :wheelchair: ... or freezing in that crazy cold weather Chicago is getting! :cold:
You're welcome. I try.
Time seems to escape me, as various responsibilities continue to get dumped into my lap, and results in ever divided attention, but know I will always try.
Glad you found the post useful. :ok:
wow bringing this bad boi back from the dead. sorry not sorry.
I have new the gauge pods made by mike.
They look amazing.
Next step is to actually use it.I have never installed gauges on anything this new. I have done old school stuff like coolant temp, oil pressure, voltage.... But nothing like this. Also finding it hard to actually find stuff to put in it... lol. ...
I have 3 spots
Boost gauge is a must and seems simple enough to install,
Would love to have AFR gauge or a fuel pressure gauge but don't know if this is possible because of the factory wide band and fear of interfering with the signal to the ecu. Would i need to install a new separate wide band or am i missing a solution completely.
Next i would like a E content senor, this seems simple but looks like a little work but i feel like this would be worth.
I have no brand preference, so if you guys have a gauge you like please feel free to share, i am here to learn, and hopefully help pass the information on.
BTW BPD1151 as always your guides are the best!
Get a LiveWire and have any guage you want in real time.
have that but don't want to have to use a tablet or a phone, every time i get into the car.