Ecoboost Performance Forum

We have a 2014 explorer sport with the 3.5EB.  It's throwing the p0016 as well as start up rattle.  Curiously the code came well before the rattle.  Anyways sounds like this is the much maligned timing chain job...  this should have the newer style chains from the factory and has just under 100k.  How common is this issue on the newer parts?

I've done a ton of reading and find some of the nuanced differences between years and models interesting.  Is there anything I need to watch out for on this 2014?  Best I can tell it's the same architecture as the other car based engines and not the same as the f150s. 


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13+ Timing chain . Z

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JUL90DXgdibDZpbWZnN19ZZEotQmxteVJPZHpXWWtEalY0/view?usp=drivesdk

I am getting the start up rattle when cold for about 5 seconds, no trouble codes... car runs fantastic otherwise.

When I disconnect the VVT solenoid electrical connector the rattle is not occurring.

Do these solenoids go bad?

Sometimes, yes, not often.  IDK if damage is already done to the timing chains, the rattle will grow worse.  Track advance errors on the solenoids, they should be well under 5%, preferably close to 0.  Sudden changes in load/speed are most challenging to implement quickly.  While electronics can respond, their effectiveness is limited by physical element design.

Good article below on the
The 3.5L V6 (base) engine in the PI sedan use Twin independent Variable Cam Timing, Ti-VCT. That means all four cams are separately controlled by cam phasers and phase solenoids. (The four cams are one intake cam and one exhaust cam for both banks of the V6.) Ti-VCT, or variable valve timing, means each cam can be individually advanced or retarded (with respect to the crank and pistons) to produce the best power and the best fuel economy. Z

https://www.hendonpub.com/police_fleet_manager/articles/2012/1112/ford_nextgen_police_interceptor_tech_training_part (https://www.hendonpub.com/police_fleet_manager/articles/2012/1112/ford_nextgen_police_interceptor_tech_training_part)

still the internal water pump tho, right?

I believe so!  Z

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JUL90DXgdiMTZ3a0wyU0JCYkZJN1ZTT3VEd3Fic09JNTlv/view?usp=drivesdk

I changed my Variable Cam Timing Solenoid today...
No more start up rattle.

Did you take it apart like FTM shows on YT?

Quote from: Gray Brick on April 14, 2019, 12:37:31 AM
I changed my Variable Cam Timing Solenoid today...
No more start up rattle.

I'm interested in seeing if this stops my start up rattle.  From what little research I did...did you change bank 2 only? 

I only changed bank 1.

It was worth trying since the alternative is much more expensive.
A timing chain really should not stretch too much after 150k miles.

Bank 2 is easier right ?  My start up rattle is very oil sensitive.  Its very much gone for first 2k miles on a new oil change then returns.  Sitting over night in my garage will also nearly stop it from happening.  Outside over night start up rattle always.  If I start it up after an oil change quickly its really bad.  Ive noticed if I let the car sit for 15 min or so after an oil change before I start it for the first time it is greatly shortened of charter.  And I always prefill my oil filter. 

Isn't there such a thing as cold starting your vehicle?  I read this somewhere once upon a time.  You put the brake to the floor, gas pedal to the floor at the same time just before you press engine start....hold start and hold your pedals down....engine cranks over for as long as you hold it, priming the oil pump and let go of the gas pedal, starts up without any chatter.  I've done this, it works.  Why?  Dunno

That startup rattle is momentary lack of oil pressure to the timing system.  Which is why using filters with the Motorcraft style ADBV helps keep it to a minimum.  Ester based oils can help reduce the occurrences also, as they are clingy, and  using the correct weight oil (usually 5w30) to provide the cushioning film between metal surfaces.  The filter design though has been important.

I've stuck with motorcraft mostly and get the least occurances of chatter at start up with it.  5w20 my recommended oil weight and Ive tried 5w30 before, not sure it helped or not. 

I've tried Fram Ultra and a WIX filter before and those were by far the worst for chatter. 

Currently trying out a K&N filter with very good results.  Comparible to the motorcraft filter although twice the money.

Will need to try changing the VCT solenoid and see if that further improves the chatter.  I have never owned a car with chatter on start up before....I hate it.

It is more worrisome due to the water pump being timing chain driven, than a timing chain issue itself.  Until a couple of years ago, chain stretch was believed to be an F150 issue.  Then a couple of incidences in the SHO popped up.

To see if 5W30 is better than 5W20 for your SHO at this point, you should use the same type/brand filter on both oil changes, and wait it out till the end of the oil change to compare.  There might be initial quieting with the heavier oil then resumption of the old behavior.  Have had that happen on the naturally aspirated 3.5.  If you are not doing lab analysis on the oil, you should.  Fuel dilution could be an issue.

I hope the solenoid change helps with this issue, you do have to take the valve cover off to replace.  Bank 2 is also way easier than Bank 1.

Quote from: Gray Brick on April 14, 2019, 10:56:14 AM
I only changed bank 1.

It was worth trying since the alternative is much more expensive.
A timing chain really should not stretch too much after 150k miles.

I did a timing job recently. 124k, the chain stretch was about ~3mm. For a ~5ft chain. That's nothing.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190415/5677af2fa777a6f38b55d8b62c6b8946.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190415/896f131a882452f7f3b742402bd08022.jpg)

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Quote from: SHOdded on April 15, 2019, 06:49:25 AM
It is more worrisome due to the water pump being timing chain driven, than a timing chain issue itself.  Until a couple of years ago, chain stretch was believed to be an F150 issue.  Then a couple of incidences in the SHO popped up.

To see if 5W30 is better than 5W20 for your SHO at this point, you should use the same type/brand filter on both oil changes, and wait it out till the end of the oil change to compare.  There might be initial quieting with the heavier oil then resumption of the old behavior.  Have had that happen on the naturally aspirated 3.5.  If you are not doing lab analysis on the oil, you should.  Fuel dilution could be an issue.

I hope the solenoid change helps with this issue, you do have to take the valve cover off to replace.  Bank 2 is also way easier than Bank 1.

When I ran 5w20 (always run 5w30/0w30) start up rattle ocurrances were cut in half and the duration of the rattle (just under a sec) was reduced as well. Wasn't cold weather either. Went back to 5w30 after storing it all winter, back to normal. Only happens every 3-4 cold starts. If it slightly still warm (~3-4hr soak) it did it more frequently.

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Which yt video?

Quote from: 802SHO on April 14, 2019, 06:28:43 AM

Quote from: Gray Brick on April 14, 2019, 12:37:31 AM
I changed my Variable Cam Timing Solenoid today...
No more start up rattle.

I'm interested in seeing if this stops my start up rattle.  From what little research I did...did you change bank 2 only?

If you are referring to my post, FTM had disassembled and explained VCT solenoid function some time ago: