Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Troubleshooting, Maintenance, TSB Articles => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: 14SHOCAR on April 01, 2017, 02:01:40 PM

Title: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 01, 2017, 02:01:40 PM
Well... 6032 miles into the car, I've managed to find a problem. :(
As I was pulling out of my condos, my car went into limp mode. Not entirely sure what happened so I figured I'd air out my frustration here. 
I live in an area where when I pull out into traffic from my condos, it's a pretty busy road. I put the car into sport mode just in case I need to get up and go, though I rarely do. When turned onto the road I got about 50 feet before my transmission slammed into to 2nd or 3rd gear and was limited to 5-7 MPH. I was only going about 25MPH when the car did this. Unfortunately, there was a driver who was not paying attention behind me and almost slammed into the back of my car. Needless to say I was in panic mode because I thought the car died and I am not entirely sure how to start the push button car while it is rolling.... (another topic to be discussed).
I also noticed when the car had the really hard shift, the car went from "Sport" to "D". The check engine light turned on and the car sputtered to a safe area. I noticed I had about 35 miles of gas remaining so I sputtered with hazards and all to a gas station to fill up a half tank. After letting the car sit and looking for any oil leaks, and transmission leaks, the car started up and it's running normally again.
Since I've tuned an EcoBoost before, I picked up on a very interesting thing. I feel as if the ECU reset itself, as my shifts are much more firm (like when you first load a tune).
#1 The car shouldn't go into limp mode if it runs out of gas right?
#2 It shouldn't limit you to 5mph – 10MPH if it is running out of gas?
#4 A check engine light shouldn't turn on when the engine is still running and the gas is low?
Speaking with the dealership, they mentioned that the ECU has been known to need a reset / new ECU due to a water leak.
And probably the most important #5:

The car is push button.... Everything. (drive selector too). I know the trick where you put a car in neutral and start the engine, the car will coast and continue movement. Since the push buttons require a foot on the brake, how do you do a rolling start on a push button car???
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 01, 2017, 02:09:30 PM
Oh -- and one more thing to vent about -- Lincoln Concierge Service / Road Side Assistance.

I couldn't get through to a Lincoln Concierge using chat or using the phone number provided. I also tried roadside assistance and got hung up on right away... three times. MAJOR FAIL
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: AJP turbo on April 01, 2017, 02:24:04 PM
I wouldve tried shifting to neutral and a light touch of the brake to start the car.

Car should not have done that i suspect just a fluke....usually with limp mode reduced power mode is temporary and a simple restart will fix it.

Often the reason for limp mode is fords strategy for monitoring torque control and torque error for what it should be and what the actual wheel torque is...its a good system that is mean to make the car deliver consistently torque in all temps and elevations

But often the problem is fords super tight tolerance for measuring the error . The car was probably in a scenario that created a difference in detected torque and that produced limp mode or FMEP

There are items in a tune that help eliminate that from happening but you dont want to defeat the system entirely but sadly some do that

Interestingly enough alot of the factory ford strategies allowed more error in the torque logic to avoid limp mode when the f150's suffered this

The problem was with the torque detection logic which is why there were tune updates and not really the condensation in the intercooler...all intercoolers will suffer condensation which is why they should be periodically drained and not DRILLED into which is a mod that can never be undone

The best solution is to drain the intercooler along with the proper changes to the tune...not saying thats your problem but the torque detection logic has proved to be a problem in the past...if the proper logic is in the tune then condensation would never be a problem but some struggle with that concept especially people that dont tune and have come from the f150 crowd

Can you find your strategy and let me know?
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: SHOdded on April 01, 2017, 05:25:55 PM
Any number of sensors could have also triggered this or a similar reaction, most common being a throttle position sensor/failing throttle body.  Were there any codes in the PCM?

Hopefully, if it IS a PCM reset that happened, they can trace the faulty component and not throw up their hands.  Electrical gremlins have been known to result in vehicle "swaps" before.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 01, 2017, 06:03:21 PM
ATP- I forgot to grab the strategy code for you. I'll make sure I do this when I get my car back from the dealership. As always, your extensive knowledge is appreciated.  While torque could have put it in limp mode, it wasn't the transmission disengaging. It was absolutely engine stuttering. My engine was literally trembling and sounded like it was only firing on two cylinders. After is shut it off and turned it back on, the engine continued to shutter. I couldn't more than 7 MPH with the throttle pressed down. I would have thought restarting the car would have reset the ECU / torque condition. After I gave my self a half tank of gas (didn't want it full if it was a fuel pump thing), opened the hood for inspection, shut the hood and restarted I didn't have issues other than a little harder shifts.

I'm going to see if I can do rolling restarts with the car moving and the vehicle in neutral. It's good to know for emergency purposes.

Shodded -- I hope not. Well maybe... lol. I do want to get the revel sound system in my next MKZ. I'm hoping that the dealership lets me know what codes are thrown.

Looking forward to finally getting videos of my car rocking now the weather is better.

This image shows the intersection I crossed and didn't make it to the Napa driveway before the car took a s***. Literally less than 50 feet.
(http://brentblawat.com/blog/mkznh2.jpg)

Sad, Sad day.
(http://brentblawat.com/blog/mkznh1.jpg)




Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: Brucelinc on April 01, 2017, 07:30:01 PM
After you get this little snafu taken care of, I hope you have AJ tune that beast.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: SHOdded on April 01, 2017, 08:54:53 PM
Hoping for positive developments!
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: AJP turbo on April 01, 2017, 09:43:39 PM
Quote from: Brucelinc on April 01, 2017, 07:30:01 PM
After you get this little snafu taken care of, I hope you have AJ tune that beast.

If he is tuneable then you are tuneable.....actually they are able to be tuned now but sct has a little bug to work out but i can see the tune now but there is an error going on
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 02, 2017, 10:30:13 PM
I'll let ya know AJP. I'm looking forward to a tune when she's back and stable.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: Brucelinc on April 03, 2017, 11:52:14 AM
I look forward to seeing what these will do with a tune.  It might take some tweaking to reach the full potential but I suspect a low 12 second time is possible with just a well sorted tune.   Just getting the transmission shifts optimized would improve the performance pretty drastically.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 04, 2017, 11:03:12 AM
Update on the car: There is no update. >:(

I got a call from the dealership and they said they can't reproduce the issue. (lol no surprise there). I called back and asked them what DTCs occurred on the vehicle. I'm waiting to hear back from the dealership. They said there are "concerns" with the vehicle.

Good thing I didn't tune it yet. lol.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: Brucelinc on April 04, 2017, 11:19:40 AM
Not to make light of this but if a dealer told me there were "concerns" with my car, I would be very concerned.   However, I doubt if there is anything seriously wrong.   I would have thought the first thing they would have checked was for DTCs. 

Thanks for the update and keep us posted.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: AJP turbo on April 04, 2017, 11:25:21 AM
Thats why i say tune....stock cars blow engines

What does "concerns" even mean?

Maybe im the minority but service advisors serve no purpose to me...id rather talk to the mechanic...but they discourage that...they'd rather have a guy in clean clothes weasel his way through a vague explanation  interpreted from the mechanics notes...but i guess most are satisfied with that
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: lamrith on April 04, 2017, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 04, 2017, 11:25:21 AM
Maybe im the minority but service advisors serve no purpose to me...id rather talk to the mechanic...but they discourage that...they'd rather have a guy in clean clothes weasel his way through a vague explanation  interpreted from the mechanics notes...but i guess most are satisfied with that
I don't want to side track the thread, but  have to agree on that.  All the mechanical / car enthusiast I have talked to dislike them.  Normal "my car won't go" type of people the service writers are ok.  I ran into it with my last car, even had screenshots of the Tech2 programmer and section they needed to go into.  Nothing, 2 dealerships could not program key fobs due to service writers not letting me speak to tech for 5min.  I borrowed a tech2 from a private party and have the car reprogrammed and learning new FOBS in 10min.

Similar with ford after you had me inquire about reflashing ECU before we start tuning.  "Why do you want it", "it will take 2hrs", "no reason to do it", one excuse after another when a couple min with mechanic and a case of beer it would have been done on a weekend...
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 05, 2017, 03:18:53 PM
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/33/33f31b2580605026058912bc644373bfab206107ddc0985f3ea72ab0a5ee79aa.jpg)

Soooo they said they scanned the car and didn't see any codes. Yet they have "concerns".  The service advisor is..... USELESS.

I basically said to him -- The car lit up like a Christmas tree, with both "service vehicle" and check "service manual" those both generate DTCs. I then said after I restarted it was not firing properly and pretty much every cylinder should have misfires. I said the probability of having NO codes is pretty much not a possibility at this point. He said he'd talk to his mechanic and get back to me.

SMH

In the mean time, my profile pic is changing into my car getting towed.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: AJP turbo on April 05, 2017, 03:31:06 PM
Im pretty comfortable saying you simply hit reduced power mode(limp mode)...cant say why though...could be a tune problem....wouldnt worry about it but it is ashame....updated ford tunes had items that specifically addressed that and helped so im surprised it still happens as much...but that's assuming its a tune problem
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 05, 2017, 04:01:25 PM
But Limp mode even after a restart?
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: AJP turbo on April 05, 2017, 04:03:42 PM
Yeah thats a bit strange...send me that strategy when you can
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: Brucelinc on April 05, 2017, 04:19:41 PM
That service advisor obviously doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.  I am beginning to wonder about the tech. 
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 05, 2017, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Brucelinc on April 05, 2017, 04:19:41 PM
That service advisor obviously doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.  I am beginning to wonder about the tech.

The service advisor said he was going to call me back in 30 minutes from when I sent that post... Still holding my breath.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: lamrith on April 05, 2017, 06:22:53 PM
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on April 05, 2017, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Brucelinc on April 05, 2017, 04:19:41 PM
That service advisor obviously doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.  I am beginning to wonder about the tech.

The service advisor said he was going to call me back in 30 minutes from when I sent that post... Still holding my breath.
Maybe time to get the service manager, or regional service manager involved.  You are more patient than I.  Brand new 2017 with oddball issue that could cause a serious accident and then vague response from service writer....  I am hoping they put you up in a nice fully loaded loaner car at least.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: Brucelinc on April 10, 2017, 09:56:08 AM
Any updates?
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 11, 2017, 09:09:36 PM
Sorry for the delay on the updates. I have a bit more ridiculousness to talk about as an update.... I finally ended up losing my cool last Friday as it pertains to my car. The dealership never called me back as I had asked. I left an extended message on Friday morning stating "I've been extremely patient and I haven't gotten a call back from you about my car.". About an hour later, I got a call from the service advisor (of course I missed the call), and he asked if one of his technicians could take the car for the weekend to see if the issue happens again. Infuriated, I called back and said "I will not let one of your mechanics joy ride in my car over the weekend, especially since "nothing is wrong". 

So I stopped in and spoke with the sales guy -- who I've worked with on 4 vehicles, and he lit a fire underneath everyone about my car. I ended up speaking with the General Manager and Service Manager. We found out something very interesting.... Sync 3 does not have the "vehicle health report" anymore. In fact, they removed the feature. So really, all we could do is scan for DTCs which were blank. So we were brainstorming what would cause the DTCs to clear without any intervention.

With it being seemingly an electrical issue, they thought maybe it was a bad cell in my battery. (as if I activated traction control when I was turning / accelerating, and it dipped the voltage to a level that screwed up my car.) Now AJP -- before you tell me how all levels of bullsh*** this is. I agree. I was giving the dealership an opportunity to fix the vehicle per... the lemon law.

So they kept my vehicle over the weekend to do "battery tests". I got a call Monday where they told me they were "charging my battery over the weekend" and they found a bad cell in the battery. Little did they know, I stopped at the vehicle on Sunday (dealerships are closed on Sundays in Wisconsin) to get my sunglasses. I was able to unlock the car, and I resynced my phone to the car after we did a master reset of the Sync system. (in our efforts to find out that there is no vehicle health report). Yup... charging my battery.

I really don't buy the "bad battery story". They had my car for a total of 10 days to figure out what's wrong with the vehicle. I had to go to a conference in Chicago on Monday so I ended up taking the loaner down here -- putting miles on the loaner instead. In the mean time, they are sending my car to the body shop to do a free "ding" repair on my driver side door from some ass hat that opened their door into my car.

So all in all........ leaves me pretty angry. Is there a complaint line that I can call about this with Lincoln? This IS an issue.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: lamrith on April 11, 2017, 10:22:17 PM
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on April 11, 2017, 09:09:36 PM
So they kept my vehicle over the weekend to do "battery tests". I got a call Monday where they told me they were "charging my battery over the weekend" and they found a bad cell in the battery. Little did they know, I stopped at the vehicle on Sunday (dealerships are closed on Sundays in Wisconsin) to get my sunglasses. I was able to unlock the car, and I resynced my phone to the car after we did a master reset of the Sync system. (in our efforts to find out that there is no vehicle health report). Yup... charging my battery.
So wait they claimed to be charging your battery, and not only did they not have it charging, but they left your car out in the open in an unsecured location that you had access to while the business was closed?

WOW you really have maintained your cool.  I would have torn them up if I got a message like that which was a flat out lie.  That is why nobody trusts dealer or even mechanics in general anymore.  MAYBE they charged it Fri-Sat and decided it was a bad battery, so took it off the charger, bug maybe.  And still why leave your car outside where anyone can get access to it.  Customers rig to me should be at least behind a locked gate. 

Big question for you, is there another Lincoln or Ford dealer anywhere around?  Have you tried to find/contact the regional lincoln rep?  Might be worth a call/email and ask him if there is another dealer you can use.  I would make sure to let your sales guy know the weekend events and message you were left. 
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: ZSHO on April 11, 2017, 10:29:25 PM
I would of Hung there nuts out to dry!!!!!!
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 11, 2017, 11:13:56 PM
I sent an email to the Owner of the dealership and CC'd the Sales rep. I gave both praise and criticism and am trying my best to stay calm. I learned a very interesting thing when I did a lemon law claim on my BMW. The dealership doesn't have to work with you. Its an agreement between you and the manufacturer.

Probably why I'm being so nice -- The dealership doesn't "have" to fix anything.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: lamrith on April 12, 2017, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on April 11, 2017, 11:13:56 PM
I sent an email to the Owner of the dealership and CC'd the Sales rep. I gave both praise and criticism and am trying my best to stay calm. I learned a very interesting thing when I did a lemon law claim on my BMW. The dealership doesn't have to work with you. Its an agreement between you and the manufacturer.

Probably why I'm being so nice -- The dealership doesn't "have" to fix anything.
That is interesting, I would think as the only physical local front for the Co and the seller of the vehicle that they would have legal responsibility to help.  Though they are not Mfg owned so I can see that side of it as well.  Either way, the fact they lied is pretty ridiculous.  Wishing the best for you, I am sure you just want it fixed, but phantom electrical or other issues that cannot be identified are the worst as you never know if they are fixed or just waiting the next event.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: DerricksSho on April 12, 2017, 12:19:20 AM
sorry to hear all your troubles and hope you get them worked out nothing worse than working hard for something you cant enjoy.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 17, 2017, 08:09:13 PM
Update is as follows:

I spoke with the sales guy and the general manager in-person about my car. They performed an oil change on the car with a paper filter to make sure there were no metal shavings in the oil. The oil was metal free.

They still insist it was a bad cell in the battery of the car. I am not entirely sure how that could cause ECU issues but since I got the car back, I've had no issues what-so-ever. I've run the gas low and have been trying to replicate the issue. So far, I can't. I'll be ready with camera in hand, however, if it happens again.

I did notice an electrical fluctuation in the rear dome light in the car. The rear LED is pulsing right now... which I'll have a video of sometime in the future. Annoying but not urgent. The front dome lights are just fine.

So, whatever the issue was, it's gone for now.
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: SHOdded on April 17, 2017, 10:05:41 PM
I would say the dealership did good!
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 28, 2017, 11:07:36 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on April 17, 2017, 10:05:41 PM
I would say the dealership did good!

So far so good. I haven't had this problem come up again.

My friend had a Bluetooth scanner that he let me take to scan for codes. Nothing came back...

(http://www.brentblawat.com/blog/mkznocodes.PNG)

Though I did play with a few other logging items... (and no AJP -- no Strategy code searchable on this device :(    )
(http://www.brentblawat.com/blog/mkzlogging.PNG)
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: SHOdded on April 28, 2017, 11:33:16 PM
Not used to seeing LTFTs like that on the Ecoboost, looking more for near zero.  I suppose under continuously varying/random loads it could happen, but not on a new/new-ish car?
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 28, 2017, 11:45:00 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on April 28, 2017, 11:33:16 PM
Not used to seeing LTFTs like that on the Ecoboost, looking more for near zero.  I suppose under continuously varying/random loads it could happen, but not on a new/new-ish car?


Hmmm... I have seen quite a few datalogs on a stock ecoboost... most of them have some variance on the LTFTs... especially if it's been cold outside. His STFT is -2.3 so it's not terribly far off...
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on April 29, 2017, 12:31:27 AM
I was at 5600ish RPMs at the snapshot. I'd be happy to pull a data log under normal loads...
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: 14SHOCAR on September 12, 2017, 01:46:42 PM
***UPDATE*** Sept 12th

Well, it happened again. This time I got a video to show the messages on the screen. I'll be taking it to the dealership to have them scan for codes. Hopefully they find something. I'll post the crappy video later today.

Anyone else have this issue??

It was accelerating this time from a stop sign after a cold start. 90miles left in gas. I was not accelerating quick at all. It was in a neighborhood full of stop signs every block.

Brenton
Title: Re: 2017 Lincoln MKZ - Limp Mode - No rolling starts - More FUN
Post by: Ramairetransam on September 13, 2017, 11:33:31 AM
this is crazy , its got to be an electrical issue. I really hope they fix it and are able to get this straightened out . I know i went through issues with my lincoln and ended up at 5 dealers , 2 that didnt want to work on it and finally a decent one in the end .
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