So a few weeks back I changed out my coils and plugs and havent really driven the car since, Ive been using my girlfriends car mostly for work and errands.. I took the SHO out yesterday and drove a little over 100 miles mostly on the highway. At lower rpms and low boost it runs fine but I noticed the car ran rough at WOT and it was noticeably slower.. For the past 3 years Ive been using sp42s gapped at .028 but decided to switch to the newer plug M-12405-35T since it seems most people are using these now.. Has anyone had any issues like this when swapping out to MSD coils and/or different plugs?
Was it tuned with a sct4x ? See what the spark value is when you are wot in 2ns gear... And see what the turbo pressure is.
When I installed mine I only saw a minimal benefit. And no spark level differences under my AJPTurbo tune.
AJP tuned when I had my 2015 SHO. He said just use the OEM plugs. He never saw data logs to say yeah SP42s are so much better when you are not Modding with higher boost etc and just pretty much straight tuning.
Had a 93 tune. E30 tune and a E85 tune.
Try the OEMs maybe ? Gapped accordingly of course.
Quote from: TopherSho on March 14, 2021, 07:57:47 PM
Was it tuned with a sct4x ? See what the spark value is when you are wot in 2ns gear... And see what the turbo pressure is.
When I installed mine I only saw a minimal benefit. And no spark level differences under my AJPTurbo tune.
Yes on the sctx4, I have a 93 tune from AJP and have been running it for 3+ years using sp542s and the car has ran excellent ever since.. I'll record some datalogs later today hopefully and compare them from the original ones and see if there is any difference in spark or turbo pressure
Quote from: Macgyver on March 14, 2021, 11:56:10 PM
AJP tuned when I had my 2015 SHO. He said just use the OEM plugs. He never saw data logs to say yeah SP42s are so much better when you are not Modding with higher boost etc and just pretty much straight tuning.
Had a 93 tune. E30 tune and a E85 tune.
Try the OEMs maybe ? Gapped accordingly of course.
I have a feeling its the spark plugs, so im thinking of switching back to the ones I was using before
Quote from: mike2225 on March 15, 2021, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: Macgyver on March 14, 2021, 11:56:10 PM
AJP tuned when I had my 2015 SHO. He said just use the OEM plugs. He never saw data logs to say yeah SP42s are so much better when you are not Modding with higher boost etc and just pretty much straight tuning.
Had a 93 tune. E30 tune and a E85 tune.
Try the OEMs maybe ? Gapped accordingly of course.
I have a feeling its the spark plugs, so im thinking of switching back to the ones I was using before
It likely is, but the logs will point that out if the boost pressure is still the same but you see -3 -4 degrees of spark and or borderline knock and the spark never ramps up. (I suspect the later)
I've been running the M-12405's since early last summer. My car runs the same times as with the 542's.
If you had issues immediately after swapping plugs and coils, i would be looking at the connectors on the coils and making sure they are all tight, and if that is not the issue double check the plugs to make sure one of them isn't cracked or the gap is off.
I did a quick datalog today.. maybe someone can take a look and see whats going on
are you spraying meth?
(https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160927261_10158118203762685_7970973466999427660_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nZAVFh5q96gAX-cG0SH&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio2-1.fna&oh=f90f2c6021a600730ad2cc874f517d6a&oe=6077F244)
Edit .. attaching jpg .. image in post wont scale ??
Here is my 1st reaction, your spark takes a VERY long time to recover... the vertical red box is the throttle getting floored.. the horizontal is the spark up to the end of the 2nd gear run. it spends 1/4 of the 2nd gear WOT under or equal to 10' timing. then slowly increased to 15.. but then flutters between 15-14 degrees. While at the same time the knock sensor reading begins climbing.
at the same time we see Lambse take a nose dive which prompts my meth question ... if you are running meth there is no way you should be running 10' or less timing for that length of time and my initial reaction is
a) the new coils are HOT, and dropping voltage; not getting enough voltage from the system and dropping voltage
b) the plugs were not gapped and are VERY open .. like .032 or they got dropped hard in shipping and are way under .026 ..
Swap in the old coils ... 20 minute job and repost a new datalog.
Quote from: TopherSho on March 16, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
(https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160927261_10158118203762685_7970973466999427660_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nZAVFh5q96gAX-cG0SH&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio2-1.fna&oh=f90f2c6021a600730ad2cc874f517d6a&oe=6077F244)
Edit .. attaching jpg .. image in post wont scale ??
Here is my 1st reaction, your spark takes a VERY long time to recover... the vertical red box is the throttle getting floored.. the horizontal is the spark up to the end of the 2nd gear run. it spends 1/4 of the 2nd gear WOT under or equal to 10' timing. then slowly increased to 15.. but then flutters between 15-14 degrees. While at the same time the knock sensor reading begins climbing.
at the same time we see Lambse take a nose dive which prompts my meth question ... if you are running meth there is no way you should be running 10' or less timing for that length of time and my initial reaction is
a) the new coils are HOT, and dropping voltage; not getting enough voltage from the system and dropping voltage
b) the plugs were not gapped and are VERY open .. like .032 or they got dropped hard in shipping and are way under .026 ..
Swap in the old coils ... 20 minute job and repost a new datalog.
Im not running meth, my car is completely stock but with a 93 tune. I gapped all the plugs myself @ .028 before installing them.. Ill try swapping back to the oem coils first and see if that makes a difference. I went ahead and ordered a new set of spark plugs just to switch out incase the plugs are bad, they should be in tomorrow. Thanks for the input
Quote from: mike2225 on March 16, 2021, 06:33:31 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on March 16, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
(https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160927261_10158118203762685_7970973466999427660_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nZAVFh5q96gAX-cG0SH&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio2-1.fna&oh=f90f2c6021a600730ad2cc874f517d6a&oe=6077F244)
Edit .. attaching jpg .. image in post wont scale ??
Here is my 1st reaction, your spark takes a VERY long time to recover... the vertical red box is the throttle getting floored.. the horizontal is the spark up to the end of the 2nd gear run. it spends 1/4 of the 2nd gear WOT under or equal to 10' timing. then slowly increased to 15.. but then flutters between 15-14 degrees. While at the same time the knock sensor reading begins climbing.
at the same time we see Lambse take a nose dive which prompts my meth question ... if you are running meth there is no way you should be running 10' or less timing for that length of time and my initial reaction is
a) the new coils are HOT, and dropping voltage; not getting enough voltage from the system and dropping voltage
b) the plugs were not gapped and are VERY open .. like .032 or they got dropped hard in shipping and are way under .026 ..
Swap in the old coils ... 20 minute job and repost a new datalog.
Im not running meth, my car is completely stock but with a 93 tune. I gapped all the plugs myself @ .028 before installing them.. Ill try swapping back to the oem coils first and see if that makes a difference. I went ahead and ordered a new set of spark plugs just to switch out incase the plugs are bad, they should be in tomorrow. Thanks for the input
What plugs ?
Quote from: Macgyver on March 17, 2021, 12:11:10 AM
Quote from: mike2225 on March 16, 2021, 06:33:31 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on March 16, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
(https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160927261_10158118203762685_7970973466999427660_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nZAVFh5q96gAX-cG0SH&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio2-1.fna&oh=f90f2c6021a600730ad2cc874f517d6a&oe=6077F244)
Edit .. attaching jpg .. image in post wont scale ??
Here is my 1st reaction, your spark takes a VERY long time to recover... the vertical red box is the throttle getting floored.. the horizontal is the spark up to the end of the 2nd gear run. it spends 1/4 of the 2nd gear WOT under or equal to 10' timing. then slowly increased to 15.. but then flutters between 15-14 degrees. While at the same time the knock sensor reading begins climbing.
at the same time we see Lambse take a nose dive which prompts my meth question ... if you are running meth there is no way you should be running 10' or less timing for that length of time and my initial reaction is
a) the new coils are HOT, and dropping voltage; not getting enough voltage from the system and dropping voltage
b) the plugs were not gapped and are VERY open .. like .032 or they got dropped hard in shipping and are way under .026 ..
Swap in the old coils ... 20 minute job and repost a new datalog.
Im not running meth, my car is completely stock but with a 93 tune. I gapped all the plugs myself @ .028 before installing them.. Ill try swapping back to the oem coils first and see if that makes a difference. I went ahead and ordered a new set of spark plugs just to switch out incase the plugs are bad, they should be in tomorrow. Thanks for the input
What plugs ?
He mentioned going to
M-12405-35T WITH the new coils. I just learned to read slower (lol) .. he has them gapped to .028.. he should be good. This leads me back to Coils and the STFT/LAMBSE readings.
I took a look at my last non meth logs from AJPTurbo, at no time do i drop to .80 .. I think we need a bigger log like from 3rd gear ..
@Mike2225 - can you safely get a log of a full 3rd gear pull at WoT? IE 3rd gear at 2500rpm to redline while floored?
Quote from: TopherSho on March 17, 2021, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Macgyver on March 17, 2021, 12:11:10 AM
Quote from: mike2225 on March 16, 2021, 06:33:31 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on March 16, 2021, 05:56:25 PM
(https://scontent.fhio2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/160927261_10158118203762685_7970973466999427660_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=nZAVFh5q96gAX-cG0SH&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio2-1.fna&oh=f90f2c6021a600730ad2cc874f517d6a&oe=6077F244)
Edit .. attaching jpg .. image in post wont scale ??
Here is my 1st reaction, your spark takes a VERY long time to recover... the vertical red box is the throttle getting floored.. the horizontal is the spark up to the end of the 2nd gear run. it spends 1/4 of the 2nd gear WOT under or equal to 10' timing. then slowly increased to 15.. but then flutters between 15-14 degrees. While at the same time the knock sensor reading begins climbing.
at the same time we see Lambse take a nose dive which prompts my meth question ... if you are running meth there is no way you should be running 10' or less timing for that length of time and my initial reaction is
a) the new coils are HOT, and dropping voltage; not getting enough voltage from the system and dropping voltage
b) the plugs were not gapped and are VERY open .. like .032 or they got dropped hard in shipping and are way under .026 ..
Swap in the old coils ... 20 minute job and repost a new datalog.
Im not running meth, my car is completely stock but with a 93 tune. I gapped all the plugs myself @ .028 before installing them.. Ill try swapping back to the oem coils first and see if that makes a difference. I went ahead and ordered a new set of spark plugs just to switch out incase the plugs are bad, they should be in tomorrow. Thanks for the input
What plugs ?
He mentioned going to M-12405-35T WITH the new coils. I just learned to read slower (lol) .. he has them gapped to .028.. he should be good. This leads me back to Coils and the STFT/LAMBSE readings.
I took a look at my last non meth logs from AJPTurbo, at no time do i drop to .80 .. I think we need a bigger log like from 3rd gear ..
@Mike2225 - can you safely get a log of a full 3rd gear pull at WoT? IE 3rd gear at 2500rpm to redline while floored?
So I did a 3rd gear pull and it felt aweful. Im going to try and switch back the coils today and do another datalog
I'll keep an eye out ..
So bad news, while I was removing the front 2 coils both the red clips on the connectors broke and the coil retaining bolts are stripped so looks like the car is going into the shop.
I never breaks 12.2' timing and runs quite a bit @ 10-11.
STFT looks ok in this run
what bugs me .. is the throttle and the boost. boost stays pretty high +15lbs over half the run, and throttle is under 65% for most of the run.
It may be this tune and method of power adding is foreign to me, but in confuzzled by the boost pressure being as high as it is unless the tune is supposed to run much higher than the stock turbos are efficient at.
(https://i.ibb.co/QnfFBSq/lowspark-2-e.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QnfFBSq)
oh just saw the update ... ballz :( sorry sir ...
Just to verify > your tune is set to 20-22+ PSI?
The Hard ask is set for 260 Kpa , converted dirty that's (260-100) = 160-ish KPA ..
(https://i.ibb.co/qxSkHZW/high-boost-e.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qxSkHZW)
Quote from: TopherSho on March 18, 2021, 01:21:34 PM
Just to verify > your tune is set to 20-22+ PSI?
The Hard ask is set for 260 Kpa , converted dirty that's (260-100) = 160-ish KPA ..
(https://i.ibb.co/qxSkHZW/high-boost-e.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qxSkHZW)
Its been a few years but I believe Brad told me around 13-14 psi was all he could safely tune on the stock map sensor
Edit: the rev 3 attachment is the tune that's been on my car, ill try and pull up more datalogs from the past couple years on my laptop later tonight
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Quote from: mike2225 on March 18, 2021, 02:20:56 PM
Its been a few years but I believe Brad told me around 13-14 psi was all he could safely tune on the stock map sensor
Edit: the rev 3 attachment is the tune that's been on my car, ill try and pull up more datalogs from the past couple years on my laptop later tonight
I'd ping Brad/AJPTurbo .. here is mine as a basic comparison - revision 32 with meth
The blue Flat line is commanding a hair over 200 kpa; yours is at 260.. I dont know if he had a different tuning style for your car, or of you are at a much higher elevation? but your desired pressure was set to 260. It would make me want to ask him if thats normal for you when your supposed to be 13-14 psi.
I could be wrong .. (https://i.ibb.co/Xz0Sn6b/rev32-topher.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xz0Sn6b) how to upload pictures on internet (https://imgbb.com/)
Whats the best way to test the MSD coils to see if 1 or more are bad before I switch back to stock?
Quote from: mike2225 on March 25, 2021, 06:07:47 PM
Whats the best way to test the MSD coils to see if 1 or more are bad before I switch back to stock?
uuuhhhh ... great question :) I haven't the foggiest.
Quote from: mike2225 on March 25, 2021, 06:07:47 PM
Whats the best way to test the MSD coils to see if 1 or more are bad before I switch back to stock?
Are you CELs that indicate a miss? If so, swap the coil from that cylinder recording the miss to one that isn't. If the CEL follows the coil, its the coil. That is probably the easiest way to check.
If its not throwing a CEL.. what symptoms are you having that lead you to believe your coilpacks are faulty?
Quote from: Admin on March 26, 2021, 11:38:32 AM
Quote from: mike2225 on March 25, 2021, 06:07:47 PM
Whats the best way to test the MSD coils to see if 1 or more are bad before I switch back to stock?
Are you CELs that indicate a miss? If so, swap the coil from that cylinder recording the miss to one that isn't. If the CEL follows the coil, its the coil. That is probably the easiest way to check.
If its not throwing a CEL.. what symptoms are you having that lead you to believe your coilpacks are faulty?
Not throwing any CELs but when I put new sparkplugs and MSD coils on, it runs poorly now .. I tried swapping back to oem coils and stripped out the retaining bolts on 2 of the coils so now I'm stuck at the moment 😑
Got some good news to report, the car is back to running normal again. So after talking with my friend, he recommended me to his mechanic that was familiar with Ecoboost engines, mainly the f150 but close enough.. After running his fancy scan tool to see if there were any misfires or hidden codes he found nothing. He pulled one of the coils to see if it would throw a code and it did. After resetting the ecu and clearing the code the car now runs good again.. The only thought I have is, even after having the battery disconnected and doing a KAM reset twice on my SCT X4, the ecu needed to relearn when I switched plugs and MSD coils
Quote from: mike2225 on March 29, 2021, 02:34:02 PM
Got some good news to report, the car is back to running normal again. So after talking with my friend, he recommended me to his mechanic that was familiar with Ecoboost engines, mainly the f150 but close enough.. After running his fancy scan tool to see if there were any misfires or hidden codes he found nothing. He pulled one of the coils to see if it would throw a code and it did. After resetting the ecu and clearing the code the car now runs good again.. The only thought I have is, even after having the battery disconnected and doing a KAM reset twice on my SCT X4, the ecu needed to relearn when I switched plugs and MSD coils
...... wut the actual crap nuggets? That is super weird. I did not mention it because I *STILL* cannot fathom why changing the plugs caused my issue but i lost 4 tenths of my 0-60 after swapping plugs to what should be better plugs. https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,10388.msg158731.html#msg158731 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,10388.msg158731.html#msg158731)
But I had a funky experience until I relearned after a KAM reset.
okay then ... it is real thing and i am not crazy .. :P
Quote from: TopherSho on March 29, 2021, 06:52:20 PM
Quote from: mike2225 on March 29, 2021, 02:34:02 PM
Got some good news to report, the car is back to running normal again. So after talking with my friend, he recommended me to his mechanic that was familiar with Ecoboost engines, mainly the f150 but close enough.. After running his fancy scan tool to see if there were any misfires or hidden codes he found nothing. He pulled one of the coils to see if it would throw a code and it did. After resetting the ecu and clearing the code the car now runs good again.. The only thought I have is, even after having the battery disconnected and doing a KAM reset twice on my SCT X4, the ecu needed to relearn when I switched plugs and MSD coils
...... wut the actual crap nuggets? That is super weird. I did not mention it because I *STILL* cannot fathom why changing the plugs caused my issue but i lost 4 tenths of my 0-60 after swapping plugs to what should be better plugs. https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,10388.msg158731.html#msg158731 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,10388.msg158731.html#msg158731)
But I had a funky experience until I relearned after a KAM reset.
okay then ... it is real thing and i am not crazy .. :P
Yeah, I saw that thread a few weeks back, which then I did a 2nd KAM reset just to see if it would help and then nothing.. I find it so weird myself, Ive changed the plugs 4 times in 3 years and never did the car react like it did when I changed to those new plugs and the new coils.
Quote from: mike2225 on March 30, 2021, 09:32:37 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on March 29, 2021, 06:52:20 PM
Quote from: mike2225 on March 29, 2021, 02:34:02 PM
Got some good news to report, the car is back to running normal again. So after talking with my friend, he recommended me to his mechanic that was familiar with Ecoboost engines, mainly the f150 but close enough.. After running his fancy scan tool to see if there were any misfires or hidden codes he found nothing. He pulled one of the coils to see if it would throw a code and it did. After resetting the ecu and clearing the code the car now runs good again.. The only thought I have is, even after having the battery disconnected and doing a KAM reset twice on my SCT X4, the ecu needed to relearn when I switched plugs and MSD coils
...... wut the actual crap nuggets? That is super weird. I did not mention it because I *STILL* cannot fathom why changing the plugs caused my issue but i lost 4 tenths of my 0-60 after swapping plugs to what should be better plugs. https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,10388.msg158731.html#msg158731 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,10388.msg158731.html#msg158731)
But I had a funky experience until I relearned after a KAM reset.
okay then ... it is real thing and i am not crazy .. :P
Yeah, I saw that thread a few weeks back, which then I did a 2nd KAM reset just to see if it would help and then nothing.. I find it so weird myself, Ive changed the plugs 4 times in 3 years and never did the car react like it did when I changed to those new plugs and the new coils.
Yeah it is a x-files moment for sure :D ...
has the p1000 code cleared after the PCM update? otherwise still in relearn mode, which may provide false assurance.
testing primary and secondary resistance on the coils is usually how the coils are proven out. of course in operation you also have the heat factor from the engine bay as well as coil firing to account for.
http://www.nicksmustangranch.com/Service_Manuals/2014/2014_Taurus/Service%20Manual.htm
what year is your SHO btw, i don't see info in the signature :)
Quote from: SHOdded on April 02, 2021, 07:25:18 AM
has the p1000 code cleared after the PCM update? otherwise still in relearn mode, which may provide false assurance.
testing primary and secondary resistance on the coils is usually how the coils are proven out. of course in operation you also have the heat factor from the engine bay as well as coil firing to account for.
http://www.nicksmustangranch.com/Service_Manuals/2014/2014_Taurus/Service%20Manual.htm (http://www.nicksmustangranch.com/Service_Manuals/2014/2014_Taurus/Service%20Manual.htm)
what year is your SHO btw, i don't see info in the signature :)
Thanks for the link, good info.I ended up bringing my car back to the mechanic yesterday to replace the 2 broken coil plug connectors. After test driving it and running a few tests he called and suggested I switch back to the oem coils, so I did..The mechanic said he tested the coils and said they were good but believes there too hot and not as reliable as oem. I have no numbers to verify but it seems low rpm/idle is better and no noticable difference at WOT. Overall the car runs good again and im happy.
Thats a good thing tho the MSD do dress up the engine bay if you dont use the cover.