Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Troubleshooting, Maintenance, TSB Articles => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: My15SHO on June 29, 2020, 12:58:05 PM

Title: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on June 29, 2020, 12:58:05 PM
I picked up a CPO 2015 SHO beginning of May, it had 52k miles. It had about 1 sec rattle on startup. When i researched the car i read alot about the rattle and about how noisy these engines are in general. After driving it for a month it set a P0020 code and dropped it off at the dealer. Just got a call they are gonna do a tear down of the engine to check timing chain. Phasers, etc. Wasnt expecting to utilize the CPO warranty so soon but hopefully if it's a fairly common issue it'll be addressed and fixed.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: FiveLeeter918 on June 29, 2020, 01:18:07 PM
hmm P0020 is typically a wiring issue on the camshaft actuator. but maybe they saw something concerning... good luck and hopefully this doesn't sour your taste for the platform...
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on June 29, 2020, 01:24:51 PM
I created the appt due to the light and code showing, but when i dropped it off and did the walk around with the service tech i hammered the fact that it had the rattle on startup, he then on his own brought up phazers and timing chain issues. I am glad though that the wiring possibly set the code which allowed me to document the rattle.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: SM105K on June 29, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
Hopefully Ford fixes it properly.  I would suggest running a quality synthetic oil in 5w30 for the duration of your ownership. I perfer Castrol Edge in the gold bottles. Also depending on your driving style I would change it every 3k miles if you do alot of stop and go driving or hard driving, or every 5k miles if you are mixed driving (freeway and city) or it your drive it normal.  I would not follow the oil change life indicator.

You can get 6 quarts of Castrol Edge and a Motorcraft oil filter at Walmart for $42 bucks.  $42 dollars for cheap insurance is a no brainer to me.   
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: StealBlueSho on June 29, 2020, 02:05:43 PM
P0020 can be wiring or it can a symptom of a stretched chain, phasers, etc..

Good news is its covered under the CPO warranty! Let us know how it goes!
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on June 29, 2020, 05:09:26 PM
The service guy did warn me that Ford parts are on back order, he's had someone in a loaner for two months waiting for parts from Ford, phasers in particular. Service history records show the car had regular oil changes at two different dealerships, i assume they use whatever Ford calls for. I did buy some new plugs to swap out, figure 52k miles has been a good run on the originals.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: FiveLeeter918 on June 30, 2020, 02:03:02 AM
Quote from: My15SHO on June 29, 2020, 05:09:26 PM
The service guy did warn me that Ford parts are on back order, he's had someone in a loaner for two months waiting for parts from Ford, phasers in particular. Service history records show the car had regular oil changes at two different dealerships, i assume they use whatever Ford calls for. I did buy some new plugs to swap out, figure 52k miles has been a good run on the originals.

Yep, they literally have 2 international warehouses with unique components that are shut down due to COVID with no one allowed in the building...
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 01, 2020, 01:27:41 PM
Dealer called again today, told me they were continuing with another 8 hours of labor, but i keep getting warned that if they find something that isnt covered by the CPO that i would be on the hook for the labor costs. I told the guy today that I looked over the CPO coverage and I don't see how there's anything that wouldn't be covered. Phasers are covered under the original emissions through 60k, everything else lubricated is covered by the CPO, even something like a solenoid would be CPO. I mean honestly aside from dropping the oil pan and finding a marble or something stupid like that and blaming it on that I don't see what they can come up with
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 01, 2020, 02:34:10 PM
Quote from: FiveLeeter918 on June 29, 2020, 01:18:07 PM
hmm P0020 is typically a wiring issue on the camshaft actuator. but maybe they saw something concerning... good luck and hopefully this doesn't sour your taste for the platform...
I guess im reserving judgement on that. I got to drive a car for 2000 miles and now it sits being dismantled piece by piece without any clue to an outcome. The guilt trip has been pretty lame though. They certify a car which is basically them vouching for the mechanical integrity of the car, then six weeks later that same car magically might have something that the CPO doesnt cover.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: 802SHO on July 05, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
Good luck but I don't like the sound of them being so quick to jump on it....perhaps they already knew about the problem...and making it known in advance if they find something not covered you're hit.....just not a good scenario but hopefully that's just me being pessimistic. 

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 06, 2020, 04:10:09 PM
Quote from: 802SHO on July 05, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
Good luck but I don't like the sound of them being so quick to jump on it....perhaps they already knew about the problem...and making it known in advance if they find something not covered you're hit.....just not a good scenario but hopefully that's just me being pessimistic. 

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
Its gone from puzzling to annoying. Still no word on what is wrong or needs fixed. The check engine light comes on, i take it....two weeks later and nothing? There cant possibly be anything that isnt covered by the CPO

Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 15, 2020, 02:34:37 PM
Four weeks later now and im told a new long block was approved and being installed. Apparently the list of repairs grew to a point where a replacement was an easier/cheaper solution.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: SM105K on July 15, 2020, 02:41:29 PM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 15, 2020, 02:34:37 PM
Four weeks later now and im told a new long block was approved and being installed. Apparently the list of repairs grew to a point where a replacement was an easier/cheaper solution.

That is good news.  New powerplants are fun.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 15, 2020, 03:39:56 PM
It will be fun.....eventually. Last thing i'll want to do after not having my car for a month is baby a new engine. Barely got to enjoy it as it was. Spent more time and miles in a loaner than the SHO.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: TopherSho on July 16, 2020, 11:19:39 AM
When I received my new block that was already 'run in' I still found lots of shiny bits in my oil at 125 miles.  I would strongly recommend changing the oil at 25 miles (wish i had done mine sooner) and filtering it through paper towels or white shop rages to inspect the amount and size of shaving that will come off.

then again at 75 miles (75 total engine miles) ..

Mine had shinny bits for 2 oil changes.  The third oil change i had was nominal ..



Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 17, 2020, 02:19:45 PM
When I was reading about this I saw a mention of "break in" oil. Is that necessary? Just use regular or synthetic?
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: TopherSho on July 17, 2020, 03:07:58 PM
The block if it has already been 'run in' will have had the oil changed and any break in lube will have been removed. I would not add any additives or break in oil once it is installed.  Just run synthectic 5-20 or 5-30 as required by the block... after say 2000 miles then maybe add in small amounts of ZDDP oil as your car beliefs require,  but for the initial 2000 miles dont mess with the break in process by adding other things besides really good oil.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 23, 2020, 05:20:02 PM
Car is back, new engine installed along with three pages of various parts and fluids (distilled water?) Seems to drive good, idles nice and quiet, one BIG difference..... i can hear the blow off valve, loudly. I never heard a peep out of it before, could that have been an issue? Are these 3.5's suppposed to have a loud BOV?
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: 76fomoco on July 23, 2020, 06:05:07 PM
the Bov's (2) are on the cross tube in the center top of the motor. they dump back into the intake it runs front to back. if the hoses didn't get put back to the intake it will be very loud. Post a picture of your motor with the black engine cover off.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: TopherSho on July 24, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 23, 2020, 05:20:02 PM
Car is back, new engine installed along with three pages of various parts and fluids (distilled water?) Seems to drive good, idles nice and quiet, one BIG difference..... i can hear the blow off valve, loudly. I never heard a peep out of it before, could that have been an issue? Are these 3.5's suppposed to have a loud BOV?

This can also occur if the Boost control solenoid is open/busted :  https://www.getoemparts.com/oem-parts/ford-turbocharger-boost-solenoid-bl3z9k378a?origin=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjer4BRCZARIsABK4QeVREO4_5tRf11N-hQqT2YLbVw05NkZlj6fuItpfER6-4payI9AN7vAaAk0yEALw_wcB

Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 24, 2020, 09:03:25 PM
I got about 20 miles out of it before the "Charging system" set off the warning light, then the power steering went out intermittently, the a/c stayed at one speed, lane keep stopped working,  shifted funky, ended up with an orange wrench light and in limp mode literally as i turned into the dealership. Somehow i knew an entire engine getting reinstalled trouble free the first time around was wishful thinking. Oh well. Now its an F150 until they get it fixed. I was in an Ecosport for the past 6 weeks.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: SM105K on July 25, 2020, 10:11:04 AM
How old is the battery?
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 25, 2020, 02:47:38 PM
I suppose the logical path is the alternator / battery. I didnt own the car long enough to really notice the battery date, i would assume with the extent of the repairs done some form of battery diagnostic would have been done. I suppose one fuse or connector missed and the car runs the battery dead and it stops. The car drove great until that charging system light came on. It gradually went down hill as i drove back to the dealer which to me sounds like battery drain from a improper charging system, where the "improper" part is will be interesting. Although now that i think of it when starting i noticed it took a few more "turns" when pushing the button to start
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: SM105K on July 25, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 25, 2020, 02:47:38 PM
I suppose the logical path is the alternator / battery. I didnt own the car long enough to really notice the battery date, i would assume with the extent of the repairs done some form of battery diagnostic would have been done. I suppose one fuse or connector missed and the car runs the battery dead and it stops. The car drove great until that charging system light came on. It gradually went down hill as i drove back to the dealer which to me sounds like battery drain from a improper charging system, where the "improper" part is will be interesting. Although now that i think of it when starting i noticed it took a few more "turns" when pushing the button to start

These car eat batteries.  One day it will be fine, next day battery is donzo.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: ridered74 on July 26, 2020, 01:19:49 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 25, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 25, 2020, 02:47:38 PM
I suppose the logical path is the alternator / battery. I didnt own the car long enough to really notice the battery date, i would assume with the extent of the repairs done some form of battery diagnostic would have been done. I suppose one fuse or connector missed and the car runs the battery dead and it stops. The car drove great until that charging system light came on. It gradually went down hill as i drove back to the dealer which to me sounds like battery drain from a improper charging system, where the "improper" part is will be interesting. Although now that i think of it when starting i noticed it took a few more "turns" when pushing the button to start



These car eat batteries.  One day it will be fine, next day battery is donzo.

My last one I noticed that the starter seemed a little slower than normal. Drove it for 45 minutes and was actually going to replace it before it died. Drove 30 minutes to stop at home to get tools to swap battery at the parts store, came out of the house and it would not turn over. Since batteries are cheap and being stranded is not, I will replace the battery from now on after it has seen two winters. 
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: jims2015 on July 26, 2020, 03:09:39 PM
Quote from: ridered74 on July 26, 2020, 01:19:49 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 25, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 25, 2020, 02:47:38 PM
I suppose the logical path is the alternator / battery. I didnt own the car long enough to really notice the battery date, i would assume with the extent of the repairs done some form of battery diagnostic would have been done. I suppose one fuse or connector missed and the car runs the battery dead and it stops. The car drove great until that charging system light came on. It gradually went down hill as i drove back to the dealer which to me sounds like battery drain from a improper charging system, where the "improper" part is will be interesting. Although now that i think of it when starting i noticed it took a few more "turns" when pushing the button to start




These car eat batteries.  One day it will be fine, next day battery is donzo.

My last one I noticed that the starter seemed a little slower than normal. Drove it for 45 minutes and was actually going to replace it before it died. Drove 30 minutes to stop at home to get tools to swap battery at the parts store, came out of the house and it would not turn over. Since batteries are cheap and being stranded is not, I will replace the battery from now on after it has seen two winters.


Same as mine. At exactly 3 years from taking it off the showroom, it turned over slower than usual. Then the next start didn't happen.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: 76fomoco on July 26, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
Quote from: jims2015 on July 26, 2020, 03:09:39 PM
Quote from: ridered74 on July 26, 2020, 01:19:49 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 25, 2020, 05:24:56 PM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 25, 2020, 02:47:38 PM
I suppose the logical path is the alternator / battery. I didnt own the car long enough to really notice the battery date, i would assume with the extent of the repairs done some form of battery diagnostic would have been done. I suppose one fuse or connector missed and the car runs the battery dead and it stops. The car drove great until that charging system light came on. It gradually went down hill as i drove back to the dealer which to me sounds like battery drain from a improper charging system, where the "improper" part is will be interesting. Although now that i think of it when starting i noticed it took a few more "turns" when pushing the button to start




These car eat batteries.  One day it will be fine, next day battery is donzo.

My last one I noticed that the starter seemed a little slower than normal. Drove it for 45 minutes and was actually going to replace it before it died. Drove 30 minutes to stop at home to get tools to swap battery at the parts store, came out of the house and it would not turn over. Since batteries are cheap and being stranded is not, I will replace the battery from now on after it has seen two winters.


Same as mine. At exactly 3 years from taking it off the showroom, it turned over slower than usual. Then the next start didn't happen.

on 3rd battery and each is just like this^^^^^ one or two days with slow starting and it heads south fast!
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on July 27, 2020, 01:58:25 PM
I get the battery going dead and preventing starting, but after its started and running, why would the battery cause the issues i had? Am i too old school in thinking it runs off the alternator once started? That power is run thru the battery but does a bad battery not allow that? I suppose after it sitting in a bay for 6 weeks and its all put back together the battery could take a dump quick.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: SM105K on July 27, 2020, 02:17:51 PM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 27, 2020, 01:58:25 PM
I get the battery going dead and preventing starting, but after its started and running, why would the battery cause the issues i had? Am i too old school in thinking it runs off the alternator once started? That power is run thru the battery but does a bad battery not allow that? I suppose after it sitting in a bay for 6 weeks and its all put back together the battery could take a dump quick.

I chalk it up to one of the SHO mysteries.  My car completely freaked out when my battery started tanking.  The dash freaked out, my climate controls freaked out, my back up camera flipped upside down. 

I replaced the battery and all those issues went away.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: 802SHO on July 27, 2020, 09:57:14 PM
I had to replace my battery after the first winter I started using a battery tender.  It never actually died but it was about to.  I took it out for a drive and put it back on the tender only the tender light stayed red for a couple days after which isn't normal.  New battery stayed on a tender as soon as I would park it in the garage.  Now I upgraded to a lightweight battery and that stays on a tender as well.  Maybe buy a battery tender....keep it full at all times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: ridered74 on July 28, 2020, 01:05:42 AM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 27, 2020, 01:58:25 PM
I get the battery going dead and preventing starting, but after its started and running, why would the battery cause the issues i had? Am i too old school in thinking it runs off the alternator once started? That power is run thru the battery but does a bad battery not allow that? I suppose after it sitting in a bay for 6 weeks and its all put back together the battery could take a dump quick.


It does, but old school cars weren't as dependent on electronics as cars today are. If a bad battery causes voltage fluctuations it can effect pretty much every aspect of the car since almost everything is controlled by electronics in some way or another.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: SM105K on July 28, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: ridered74 on July 28, 2020, 01:05:42 AM
Quote from: My15SHO on July 27, 2020, 01:58:25 PM
I get the battery going dead and preventing starting, but after its started and running, why would the battery cause the issues i had? Am i too old school in thinking it runs off the alternator once started? That power is run thru the battery but does a bad battery not allow that? I suppose after it sitting in a bay for 6 weeks and its all put back together the battery could take a dump quick.


It does, but old school cars weren't as dependent on electronics as cars today are. If a bad battery causes voltage fluctuations it can effect pretty much every aspect of the car since almost everything is controlled by electronics in some way or another.

100% correct with these cars when it comes to weak batteries.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: TopherSho on July 28, 2020, 04:57:57 PM
Mine would not go into reverse ... Drove fine,  headlights would go bright and dark depending on the charging state.. but the weird moment was when it refused to go into reverse in a parking lot.  went into drive fine (but with a loud THUNK) ... but reverse ... nope.  swapped the batter right there in the Walmart parking lot and all fixed.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on August 01, 2020, 12:17:14 PM
Got the car back yesterday, i suppose a car sitting for weeks in a shop can be the final death blow for a bad battery. Everything seems good, car drives strong. The final bill was a tad over $12k, alot of stuff included on the invoice. I did see the tranny fluid was replaced, i assume due to the block being replaced. What about the PTU? Would that have been serviced as well? I didnt get a whole lot of info when i picked the car up. I saw the front end was realigned, dont know alot about whats involved, what got replaced, what didnt? I feel like my maintence schedule is all thrown off.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on August 01, 2020, 12:26:56 PM
The invoice is 5 pages, three of which are nothing but part #'s. Aside from the multiple bolts, nuts, gaskets....i see the new engine assembly, two filter assembly, 6qt engine oil, 12qt auto trans oil, 2 qt auto trans oil, 1 gallon distilled water?
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on August 02, 2020, 11:08:38 AM
Well, atleast i got to enjoy it for 2 days this time. Two puddles under the car in the garage. One is red ATF and the other engine oil.  I know its a big job but is it honestly too much to expect to have it done correctly, all bolts in place, no leaks.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: TopherSho on August 02, 2020, 07:25:07 PM
.... that sounds like my dealership.  I gave up and found a warranty authorized mechanic instead and its been way better,  but in your case you will definitely need to go back and politely throw a stink.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on August 07, 2020, 08:37:10 AM
I was told a transmission line wasnt tightened and leaking, they tightened it and topped it off. No more leaks overnight so i assume thats fixed.  I had the car back for two days and it throws a P0020 code on the way to work, which happens to be the same code that i brought it in for back on June 20th. 7 weeks.....three visits.....right back where we started.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on August 07, 2020, 09:16:07 AM
Im gonna look into it myself, is "bank 2" the front or back cylinder head, also will the vct connector be on the left or right side. I found some answers on an F150 Forum but our engines are sideways compared to theirs
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: Macgyver on August 07, 2020, 05:51:43 PM
Quote from: My15SHO on August 07, 2020, 09:16:07 AM
Im gonna look into it myself, is "bank 2" the front or back cylinder head, also will the vct connector be on the left or right side. I found some answers on an F150 Forum but our engines are sideways compared to theirs

This should help:

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=10453.msg157780#msg157780
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: ridered74 on August 08, 2020, 04:31:34 AM
Quote from: My15SHO on August 07, 2020, 08:37:10 AM
I was told a transmission line wasnt tightened and leaking, they tightened it and topped it off. No more leaks overnight so i assume thats fixed.  I had the car back for two days and it throws a P0020 code on the way to work, which happens to be the same code that i brought it in for back on June 20th. 7 weeks.....three visits.....right back where we started.

P0020 is probably going to be the wiring coming from your vct solenoid. Mine had a break inside the plug itself, so it wasn't visible but some people have had the wiring on the outside break as well.

If you have a multimeter, remove the plug and hold the start button on your car for a few seconds without pressing brakes. At this point you should have 8-9 volts or so when you plug the multimeter prongs directly into the two spots on the plug. Then press on the wiring and bend it until you see the voltage drop to zero and you will know where the break is.

Super common problem on these cars. Been about 3 in facebook groups just in the last week.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on August 08, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
Thanks for the info, so the million dollar question is if it is the wiring/plug that causes the code, is it just a split second voltage that sets the code and there is no "damage" being done? I reset the light with a scan tool and it hasnt come. back on yet. Is there any harm being done by faulty wiring to the engine and the timing?. Thanks a lot guys!
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: ridered74 on August 08, 2020, 10:31:24 AM
Quote from: My15SHO on August 08, 2020, 09:26:50 AM
Thanks for the info, so the million dollar question is if it is the wiring/plug that causes the code, is it just a split second voltage that sets the code and there is no "damage" being done? I reset the light with a scan tool and it hasnt come. back on yet. Is there any harm being done by faulty wiring to the engine and the timing?. Thanks a lot guys!

If I remember right, it only sets the code if voltage is lost for 5 seconds straight or something along those lines. It isn't going to hurt the car to drive it like that in the meantime, but long term it would not be good for the car. Mine started as the code would pop once every couple days, then after about two months it got to the point where it came on every time I drove it. It idled a little rough but that was about all I noticed as far as driveability.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: My15SHO on August 08, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Is what we are talking about....this plug and sensor?  Pics attached
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: ridered74 on August 09, 2020, 03:30:05 AM
Quote from: My15SHO on August 08, 2020, 06:39:02 PM
Is what we are talking about....this plug and sensor?  Pics attached


Yep.
Title: Re: New SHO owner with problems
Post by: Noahjohn on November 20, 2020, 01:37:15 AM
Hey,
Sorry to hear that!
As per my knowledge, this must be a wiring issue. May be this will help you: https://handtoolsforfun.com/how-to-connect-a-multimeter-to-measure-current/ (https://handtoolsforfun.com/how-to-connect-a-multimeter-to-measure-current/)

Also, I think the crank sensor is not working properly, which is cutting off the crank signal while the engine is running. This is happening due to wiring issues. You can check it using multimeters.
Crank sensor monitors the position and speed of the crankshaft which plays an important role in starting an engine.
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