had quite the adventure this week.
Oh boy where do i start... it's kinda long so i'll try to go readers digest style
1. I'm dumb and let my OCC over-fill.
2. out of town helped my wife drain it over the phone
3. began hearing ticking noises like cards in a bike wheel presumed cams.
4. wife gets code p0012 VCT solenoid bank 1 over-retarded (MIL illuminated)
5. check PTS to find there is a TSB for that code with a mil. the fix is...
6. UPDATED PCM calibration with IDS (returned to stock first, all that good stuff)
7. still hearing ticking cam noises. so did some research. possibly VCT solenoid unlikely on a 2016, possible oil flow issues (okay maybe, with the catch can over-filling). or maybe just something as simple as low on oil.
8. check oil. its not even on the dipstick, it comes out splotchy halfway up the dipstick not on the end. dark brown and dirty (just over 5k miles on mobil1 0w30)
9. OH Crap, i need to add/change my oil now!
10. drain oil, maybe 2 quarts of the dirty dark brown crap comes out. (well thats weird, the book says 6 quarts i know it usually doesn't drain all 6 but dang.)
11. put on my new oil filter and ran mobil1 5w20 in an attempt to thin/even out if there was any more tar left in there. put in 5.5 quarts engine took it all no problem and dipstick read.
12. cam noises seem to subside. will probly go back to 0w30 or the recommended 5w30 after a couple thousand miles.
13. now I'm trying to figure out this oil consumption. and looking periodically. the short hose from my OCC to the manifold seems oily on the blocker thing inside it, if I pull my manifold MAP it is soaked in oil. (even my 2 bar that's only been there since the IDS PCM update) so many issues from a 2016
i've read some scary things, valve covers getting replaced, VCT solenoids, and even crank bearing issues (yikes)
all the while i've emailed torrie with my updated PCM info, and got my 89MPG and my 93PERF tunes. only problem is. i flash the 93PERF and it wont turn over. cranks and stalls says general error 21000 when i tried reading the code(s) im not sure if that's an error reading codes or an error with the car. . 89MPG works okay; didn't drive far but didn't trip any MIL. what an adventure. stock tune with the 2 bar for now.
well i tried to keep it short for you guys. I seem to always throw my issues on the wrong thread so I made this adventure its own thread, hope you guys can help...
I'm not sure why your putting 0w-30 on your XSPORT cause the wrong viscosity and light weight oil will screw up the cam phasers and cause a delay and set off a DTC,the same goes for dirty oil,no dis intended. Z
0w30 just personal preference, just a habit of "what I usually buy" I had a toyota before and it seemed to help mpg. after this it will be 5w30 everytime still mobil1 though, kind of a fan-boy. appreciate the input. im more conerned with what happend to 4+ qts of oil in 5k miles and why it was so dirty.. and why is it in my manifold?
Is your 93 tune for a 3 bar MAP. If so, did you remember to change the sensor prior to attempting to start?
I suspect that your oil drained out through your OCC. Make sure that you have the check valves in place and running the correct direction. It's very easy to install incorrectly. Double and triple check your hose routing and check valves. The vacuum/suction on these motors is not typical due to be turbo charged.
I would say the dirty oil is expected especially when tuned at a 5k interval combined with excessive idle time!!...definitely post some pics of the oil in the manifold....BTW do you have a front clean side oil separator installed.? Z
Quote from: ZSHO on November 04, 2016, 07:02:45 PM
I'm not sure why your putting 0w-30 on your XSPORT cause the wrong viscosity and light weight oil will screw up the cam phasers and cause a delay and set off a DTC,the same goes for dirty oil,no dis intended. Z
0w-30 is not light weight oil...its only lighter when cold...infact you can make the argument it gets the oil flowing to vital parts faster
If operated at an ambiant temp of 30 degrees f. and full operating temp 5w-20 is LIGHTER than 0w-30
I hate talking about oil...but the 0w-30 simply has a greater operating temp range than 5-30
If one lived in an area with huge temperature swings then 0w-30 would be the preferred "all year" oil
You wont spend anytime in the temp range for the 0w portion of the oil chart so its kind of an unused range of the oil
Quote from: nickwalter4 on November 04, 2016, 07:09:37 PM
0w30 just personal preference, just a habit of "what I usually buy" I had a toyota before and it seemed to help mpg. after this it will be 5w30 everytime still mobil1 though, kind of a fan
I run 0w-30 as well..but it doesnt help mpg unless you are always driving when super cold....otherwise its just like 5w-30
And mobil 1 is crappy group III hydro cracked poo poo....step up to group IV if you want some of the real
You might be ok. Stay stock for now. Just do a couple of 500-1000 mile oil changes, just as if you had run an engine cleaner through.
Then if everything is ok, go back to regular OCI and put on the tune. That would be my strategy. Caution now, reward later :)
Quote from: ZSHO on November 04, 2016, 07:33:35 PM
I would say the dirty oil is expected especially when tuned at a 5k interval combined with excessive idle time!!...definitely post some pics of the oil in the manifold....BTW do you have a front clean side oil separator installed.? Z
I have the UPR kit from EPP it came with the CSS. Only difference is with the 16's theres a sensor and i had to cut the hose on the front of the engine. to put the sensor in line between CSS and the airbox nipple. I was posting a reply with some pics last night but im also currently in an uphill battle with windows 10 and had to force-crash it. Updates are killing my computer slowly.
Quote from: nickwalter4 on November 05, 2016, 06:03:04 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on November 04, 2016, 07:33:35 PM
I would say the dirty oil is expected especially when tuned at a 5k interval combined with excessive idle time!!...definitely post some pics of the oil in the manifold....BTW do you have a front clean side oil separator installed.? Z
I have the UPR kit from EPP it came with the CSS. Only difference is with the 16's theres a sensor and i had to cut the hose on the front of the engine. to put the sensor in line between CSS and the airbox nipple. I was posting a reply with some pics last night but im also currently in an uphill battle with windows 10 and had to force-crash it. Updates are killing my computer slowly.
AHH you mean this bad boy,its an EGR Feedback pressure sensor on the 16+. Z (http://i.imgur.com/f7slINoh.jpg?1)
U have a part number for that guy, Z? I know ill need one if i evee go back to off the lot stock.. i tore mine apart to use the sensor with my catch can.? I will post some pics whenever my computer decides to start working and i coincidentally also have time to use it...
It looks like its part number 6758 or (GB5Z6758A) Fordparts.com 36.93 (http://i.imgur.com/yjH3VBvh.jpg) http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=QEpqSQUd5I%2fZSdu%2bCeeYrw%3d%3d&id=396954188&m=2&search=true&year=2016&make=Ford&model=Explorer (http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=QEpqSQUd5I%2fZSdu%2bCeeYrw%3d%3d&id=396954188&m=2&search=true&year=2016&make=Ford&model=Explorer) Tasca 25.71 http://www.tascaparts.com/ford/explorer/gb5z6758a/2016-year/sport-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/emission-system-cat/emission-components-scat/?part_name=hose (http://www.tascaparts.com/ford/explorer/gb5z6758a/2016-year/sport-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/emission-system-cat/emission-components-scat/?part_name=hose) :)
working ish so pics here goes...
short hose from OCC to manifold.
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14963235_10211134428660504_7252428959291127151_n.jpg?oh=02eab9cf8052cf44c7ccced743751029&oe=588DFEFB)
manifold nipple
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14915300_10211134429260519_5743123812859304620_n.jpg?oh=b9369cd96c666d4daeb7933a592eae54&oe=58C6F429)
other end of short hose. (i'm not sure which end is which)
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14937461_10211134429580527_1131724443369203083_n.jpg?oh=64f8535006c011c0a3d8e3d101d3a63c&oe=58CCD989)
a crappy pic
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14955879_10211134431020563_8511836910567467868_n.jpg?oh=3edef2e9b8ccbf53a89a09a896b91122&oe=58CFD5AE)
saturated MAP
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14915343_10211134432460599_6957963743197280437_n.jpg?oh=9ca72281d92db67bb3fc0cf6d29ac209&oe=5899369B)
again..
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/14962662_10211134427980487_3284144156393228446_n.jpg?oh=9854b60ce4ef0d806e144c95ead6a1d7&oe=58D53ECE)
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14947655_10211134428420498_446183133550612691_n.jpg?oh=f01f6a39c42ec781c007ba43af3e89e0&oe=5895A25B)
Here is a pic of a stock 16 X-SPORT and definitely get some maf cleaner for that map sensor..BTW did you cap the port highlighted on the bottom pic with your CC.? Z (http://i.imgur.com/TQ0HiD1h.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/FKGyRjLh.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/TQ0HiD1h.jpg?1)
instructions said to leave it open, I put a small breather filter on it.
I wonder if the instructions take into account your EGR Feedback Sensor. Most likely not.
Nick have you seen this thread on the 16+ Sport hope it helps any. Z http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/63-ford-explorer-ecoboost/15274-new-upr-ford-explorer-sport-catch-can-system.html (http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/63-ford-explorer-ecoboost/15274-new-upr-ford-explorer-sport-catch-can-system.html) (http://i.imgur.com/wo92FOGh.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/1GVfGfBh.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/6l69XKSh.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/rRxb4huh.jpg)
my install thread, some pics still work i think.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5996.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5996.0.html)
still won't start with the performance tune either, torrie said he updated the strategy on both tunes, it starts stock, it starts with my 3 bar and MPG tune, but 3 bar and performance just cranks. the follow up question is always "are there any codes" well no, because i went back to stock when i realized this "performance" tune is going to get me exactly zero miles of spirited driving, and I have places to go. I did check once and it said "generic error 21000" I'm not sure if that's coming from the PCM or the X4 itself.
like i said the strategies are supposed to be updated to my new PCM cal, but he said using the old strategy can cause this issue..
call me crazy but if it starts before tuning, and starts with another tune, but I tune a differen't file and it doesn't start.... something has to be wrong with that tune?.....
I would use the device to pull the strategy and ECU SWPN one more time and provide it to Torrie. Just to make sure that something didn't get entered incorrectly.
Dealer updated my strategy between times of me getting and installing the tune and I had that code.
Did you go from stock to the performance tune, or from the MPG to performance tune. I would try a KAM reset before loading the performance tune. Maybe the tune has the throttle body on "alert", so it prepositions it, for example. Definitely a question for Torrie.
I've tried going tune to tune, stock to tune, the only one that messes up is the performance tune, and I can assure you the software and strategy didn't change again I did the PCM cal update myself.
So same same with the performance tune. Torrie has sent me 2 new files and none of the performance tunes will crank. The last one dodnt even come up with the menu to edit parameters like speed limiter and advance and stuff. I think just like a bare bones 'here this is for your mods' what frustrates me even further is he has no input at all. He is so well known and talked up. .. like if the mpg tune works, why wouldnt the performance? This is a 2016 and if this keeps up im gonna go trade it in while it might still have some low milage positive equity.. then of course all my parts will be up for grabs on here but id rather just have a working [performance] tune... anybody else on here have issues after pcm update?
I say the file is corrupt
Let ajp tune it. Different tuner, different perspective.
He asked to pull the *.bef file from the tuner and send it to him. From what i understand its the stock configuration the x4 saves when flashing the latest file. He did say hes created xompletely new files. For the latest tune he sent me. I told him i think its weird the mpg tune would work but that one (s) wont turn over. Hopefully hell be able to figure something out with the *.bef. .. im still in a window for positive equity. Trading for a fiesta st i lose my 3rd row seats but cut my payment by like 200+. Because at the end of the day even if/when the tune works theres still oil in the manifold :(
Update Ok so o pulled the .bef file and sent it to torrie as he asked and he said it had to go to tech analysis. I offered two plausible possibilities just speculating that if the pcm update was the tsb directive for the vct code p0012 perhaps theres a cam timing inconsistency, i also mentioned ajp's corrupt file suggestion although i've tried 3 or 4 different files at this point. He has a hunch it could be a checksum error although im not sure what that means. That fiesta st is starting to look better and better....
I think he may be copying his values the wrong way to the new file...something is not happy obviously...when certain values are changed that shouldnt be the checksums will be wrong...sct exposes tables that probably never need to be changed...if your new stratgy has a different value in that field and he copied it over from the old performance tune then that can do it....im speculating though as i have no idea how he went about the update
Quote from: AJP turbo on November 12, 2016, 01:42:01 PM
I think he may be copying his values the wrong way to the new file...something is not happy obviously...when certain values are changed that shouldnt be the checksums will be wrong...sct exposes tables that probably never need to be changed...if your new stratgy has a different value in that field and he copied it over from the old performance tune then that can do it....im speculating though as i have no idea how he went about the update
Originally he said the original tune was mirrored to go with my mods, but updated for the new strategy. The mpg tune works fine but ive been going back and forth for a week or so now as im on 12's and have a toddler, its hard to make time for this stuff. I hope we get to the bottom of it soon.
Quote from: AJP turbo on November 12, 2016, 01:42:01 PM
I think he may be copying his values the wrong way to the new file...something is not happy obviously...when certain values are changed that shouldnt be the checksums will be wrong...sct exposes tables that probably never need to be changed...if your new stratgy has a different value in that field and he copied it over from the old performance tune then that can do it....im speculating though as i have no idea how he went about the update
Ha, we have first hand experience with this.
To the OP, when AJP and I were running through some test to disable advance trac on the non-pp we found that there are values that SCT allows you to change that the ECU can't process depending on strategy. What happened to me when I loaded those values via a tune was the car wouldn't crank over. But for some reason would corrupt the stock tune file. Inside then gen those Gen2100 errors when I tried to roll back to stock.
Anyway, in short, sounds like a dorked tune from Torrie.
Calls SCT, explain to the error, they will take your stock file, create a rescue file, which will repull your stock setting from the ECU if you are having issues getting your stock tune back onto the car if Torrie is concerned about a corrupt stock file. BUT if you can revert you car back to stock without an issue, in doubt the stock file bad.
Correct me if I am wrong AJP but the sct tunes just overlay new values onto the stock tune?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Actually steal blue sct said your stock file was not corrupt but it was more like the device thought the ecu was a different one that was married to another device because of the changed tune items i guess
An sct doesnt overlay in top of the stock values. When a tuner changes values in the tune for custom tuning you change the values and flash just like ford would do for a tune update...they call it a strategy change but they dont have to, they could call it rev 2 if they wanted
You could call fords base tune a ford custom tune if you wanted
Ah, they told me my stock file got corrupted, although I know you spoke them a bit more at length about it and ALOT more knowledgeable about than my input, good to know!
I read somewhere sct just overlays new values onto the stock tune and flashes the ecu, that's why the tuner requires that it download the stock file from the ecu first?
Thanks for the clarification!!
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
No problems swapping back to stock just the performance tune doesnt want to work. Whay has me baffled is the mpg tune works fine. Performance does not.. Not to worried at this point.taking sunday to throw my stock parts back on. And go trade it in the mext few weeks. Probly go back to another tacoma or something. Downside. Mama loses third row seats and daddy loses twin turbos. Owell. Even if it was botched id just grab my crap from work and reflash with ford files.
Why would you have to use your crap from work?..just use the device to return to stock?...
I wouldnt trade in a car over a failed tune lol...just find another tuner,the market is flooded with calibrators
How do you go to a fiesta from and explorer?..i think you just want one and need a reason lol
ultimately you simply have a bad tune and are dealing with the wrong person...i feel bad its going to cost you a car and lose thousands on a trade....you always lose on a trade...simply has to be that way....if you think dont feel ripped off then you just tolerate a good hole beating
Its not just the failed tune weve been tossing around the idea of a new truck for a minute or another small car loke the fiesta ST. Trading this beast in might even let us pay off our other car and be down to one car payment if i can finagle it. I just see a lot of problems like... oil on the spark plugs for example. Kinda makes me wanna toss it like a hot rock before more problems arise. Oil in the manifold, mentioned earlier in the thread .... the crap from work would be if the stock file somehow got corrupted.
I think some of your issues will simply be resolved by ordering and replacing that EGR Feedback pressure sensor on your 16xsport which if disconnected or removed alone can cause many issues to arise. Z
She gone. Parts for sale post coming soon. Found us a double cab tacoma in a stick. Longevity, resale value, versatility of a truck, and reputation for dependability.. not even sure im gonna mod it much. Leaves me more money for my fish tanks and guns.. maybe floor liners or an intake, or step bars for the kids.
I cant believe it!!!!.due make sure you post a pic with your username on a piece of paper next to each item up for sale as per rules of the forum,good luck and thanks. Z http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,30.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,30.0.html)
x2 on the above ^. Good luck with your new ride!