Hi
So I was about to do an intake/valve clean on the SHO and i started googling to find what product seemed to have the best reviews and how well they worked. Lots of good reviews about seafoam, and people use the variant that you feed a line into the throttle body and idle the engine while squirting the can. Then there is the CRC one which you spray into it while you rev it to 3k.
THEN i found a video where a FordTech (?) talks about how any valve cleaner type product can cause turbo failure and to stay away.
Suggestions? My fuel mileage is going down and I'm losing power so I'm sure i have some gunked up valves (motor has 140k on it, i've heard that you start seeing junk even at 10K!!!)
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/crc-gdi-ivd-intake-valve-turbo-cleaner-11-oz.-05319/11019388-P
Or even the seafoam variant that goes into your throttle body.
Best first step is to scope the problem. USB borescopes are pretty decent nowadays, and very affordable. You could just go in with cleaner, but if there is indeed masses of carbon present, you could break chunks of carbon off and end up killing the turbos. Ford generslly has done a better job of keeping the coking down in GTDI engines, but 140k can still be a challenge.
Seafoam is probably ok, it is not a harsh cleaner, There are now professional strength cleaners available ftom BG and Valvoline among others that will work better, but again first step. .. scope. glock-coma has done this before, hope he chimes in.
How can we summon glock-coma so he can chip in on this, i want to do it but kinda worried too.
PM hiim directly :)
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=273 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=273)
Just posting the reply from the PM.
Pretty much exactly what SHOdded mentioned
I've never used seafoam, I had my intake valves cleaned with the bg intake cleaning process awhile back.
The results were not extraordinary....
i have some videos on YouTube showing the results.
Just search sho bg intake cleaning.
I had a bg authorized shop do the service.
I used a bore scope camera to document the before/after results.
While they did get cleaner it seems to clean the first couple cylinder after the throttle body the most.
Depending how dirty or how hard the deposits are, it can cause damage by loosing pieces that are to large.
Then under hard acceleration they can fall off and hit the turbo vanes at high speed.
It seems like it would work better in 1k increments until they a clean rather than all at once.
IMHO the best solution is to remove the intake manifold all together and clean the valve manually
I guess with any type of Induction Cleaning would advise precaution especially on high mileage vehicles!
I would be concerned about chunks of carbon forming while entering the Turbos and ultimately damaging the Fins as kindly suggested by SHOdded above!
I had the Ford Dealer perform an Induction cleaning roughly @ 20K due to a rough idle and low mpg and proved to be effective with good results.
Here are a couple links and good articles for ya. Z
http://easygdi.valvoline.com/ (http://easygdi.valvoline.com/)
https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/press-room/Valvoline%20launches%20groundbreaking%20fuel%20system%20service%20for%20gasoline%20direct-injection%20systems (https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/press-room/Valvoline%20launches%20groundbreaking%20fuel%20system%20service%20for%20gasoline%20direct-injection%20systems)
http://www.underhoodservice.com/solving-carbon-deposits-direct-fuel-injection-engines/ (http://www.underhoodservice.com/solving-carbon-deposits-direct-fuel-injection-engines/)
(https://i.imgur.com/1HNS2C9m.jpg?1)(https://i.imgur.com/btUFGxam.jpg)
DIY Below!
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR4ydnfyoCU#)
Thanks lads!
is this you?:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOByog1s75LtkvY8_Uvks-w (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOByog1s75LtkvY8_Uvks-w)
@ZSHO
You said the Ford dealer did it for you
Do you remember how much it cost?
My SHO is due for an oil change soon might look into getting this done while it's there
I had my manifold off recently and took a look at the intake valves and it wasn't pretty. A lot of gunk and buildup. I'm at 160k miles with original everything. I don't think i would use a product like this given the lack of experience anyone has had with these engines and this product and I'm not trying to be the guinea pig here at the expense of my car.
I don't think ford has any approved way of cleaning the valves, but i could be incorrect. The only option i'd probably consider is a walnut blasting and that's it. That seems to be the safest way of going about cleaning the valves since everything just gets vacuumed out instead of sucked in. You spray a product like this down your intake and deposits have only one place to go.
Quote from: paokara777 on December 12, 2017, 11:42:42 AM
@ZSHO
You said the Ford dealer did it for you
Do you remember how much it cost?
My SHO is due for an oil change soon might look into getting this done while it's there
The Ford dealer quoted me $99.00 for the procedure IIRC.
They did insert the liquid through the Plenum on Top of the intake manifold while the other was a gas additive for the tank. Z
Quote from: paokara777 on December 12, 2017, 11:40:47 AM
is this you?:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOByog1s75LtkvY8_Uvks-w (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOByog1s75LtkvY8_Uvks-w)
Yes sir.
Does anyone know where one can go to get a manual valve cleaning? Very interested in this as well.
You can also install a Meth system to clean it slowly over time and enjoy a mild boost in performance.
If your seeking for a cheaper alternative would just purchase a couple of cans of CRC GDI Cleaner or Amsoil power foam cleaner by removing the vacuum port line high-lighted in Blue and spray some cleaner while the vehicle is running as seen on the video below.
I would only use a small amount over an extended period of time which is probably safer alternative to gradually,effectively clean any carbon buildup or oil blowby that has accumulated overtime.
Its important to note that the instructions should be followed exactly as per manufacturers specs on the can and use @ your own risk may apply here and user results may vary depending on mileage,idling!
The only reason mine was performed was due to a rough idle and poor mpg as stated above!
http://www.aa1car.com/library/intake_valve_deposits_gdi_engines.htm (http://www.aa1car.com/library/intake_valve_deposits_gdi_engines.htm)
(https://i.imgur.com/sSq9rsOh.jpg?2)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR4ydnfyoCU#)
Yeah my MPG is tanking and my power is down too (this is track verified, not just how it feels)
Also i have had problems starting it in the cold.
I have started to point the finger at carbon build up
I want to try something like this as a diagnostic step almost, i like your idea of doing small amounts gradually to prevent large pieces of carbon breaking off
I imagine the best way to do this is to do it at every service from new to prevent this happening altogether!
Another alternative is to talk to Brian at BND Automotive, see if ACES IV can help you resolve the issue gradually. IIRC, intake valve deposit prevention/cleaning is one of the effects of this additive, yes in a DI system.
Since you have never cleaned before i would also take it apart and clean. What I did before meth was chemtool b12 in a chemical sprayer and spray directly at the butterfly valve with intake pipe off. Also only about half of a can at a time, it heats the cats really good.
o yea you need someone in the car to modulate throttle so it doesn't die. We do 3 other lexus vehicles the same way.
Quote from: SHOdded on December 13, 2017, 06:46:49 AM
Another alternative is to talk to Brian at BND Automotive, see if ACES IV can help you resolve the issue gradually. IIRC, intake valve deposit prevention/cleaning is one of the effects of this additive, yes in a DI system.
Yeah, I was thinking about how this issue could be prevented altogether in a similar way they prevent it with detergents in the fuel, and I was wondering if (since the sludge comes from blowby crankcase pressure that gets pushed back into the fuel) they will develop a special oil that has some sort of cleaning agent that will, when mixed in with the fuel, clean the valves. But then i realized that would be the same as having detergents already in the fuel and also its not the unburned stuff causing the problem its the burned stuff so i dunno. I'll leave it to Valvoline to think about it.
Not really any shortcuts to cleaning up buildup. Maintenance regimens, sure. But ideally u start from a known, good baseline. I would suggest talking with Brian regardless.
Quote from: SHOdded on December 13, 2017, 06:46:49 AM
Another alternative is to talk to Brian at BND Automotive, see if ACES IV can help you resolve the issue gradually. IIRC, intake valve deposit prevention/cleaning is one of the effects of this additive, yes in a DI system.
Dont call it an additive to Brian, he will quickly correct you into calling it a catalyst :)
That said, my understanding of the product is more as a preventative. While it is supposed to facilitate some light weight cleaning, I dont know if ACES is going to compete with a cleaning product such as BG or SeaFoam. Though, talking to Brian about your particular use case and questions is going to be the best idea. I would love for you to be able to provide before/ after pics of your build up for whatever product you end up choosing.
In closing, I think its appropriate to note that I am an ACES user. I think it really keeps my stock vehicle mechanically stay in top form (preventing carbon build up), and the ECU pinned to the highest performing parameters the stock tune allows. 93 octane plus ACES at every fill up for over a year, and I have not seen the OAR move from -1 showing 3 decimal places to make sure its pegged. Perhaps I should scope my cylinders to take a peak, I'll need to look up some scopes. I have also never drained the CAC, so maybe a maintenance day is in order to see if I'm experiencing any of the issues some of the other SHOs do. Taking this further, my wife's Escape Titanium gets significantly better gas mileage with ACES. This is immediately noticed in her vehicle.
Yes right you are, catalyst, thanks :D. I had initially used it in the 10 FSport at 90K. The first tankful was a bit rough running, rest fine. The most difference it made on this naturally aspirated engine was in increasing available timing by up to 4 degees, followed by a near flattening of longterm fuel trims, and a small bump in mpg by about 0.5 or so. On winter fuel.
Interesting Video on this topic.
https://youtu.be/0irwbwpuEbQ
Over the years I've used both Amsoil Power Foam and more recently CRC GDI cleaner. I think they can both work. The GDI cleaner is more of a liquid and the power foam is a foam. The issues with using any product is that you do not want hard chunks of carbon to break off the valve stem and enter the combustion chamber and potentially get stuck between the piston and the cylinder wall, or not get burned up and hit the blades on the turbo. I do not believe Seafoam softens/dissolves the carbon, it more or less cracks it off (bad). On the other hand, the Power Foam and the CRC GDI cleaner behave more like an oven cleaner product, they soften the carbon and help it to "melt" away. This is the much better approach. With either product the key is not to allow the product to hydrolock the engine. I have also personally used walnut blasting on my EB to get the valves clean. The process worked, but it really makes a mess.
My current thinking is to leverage the CRC GDI cleaner every 10k miles as this is a product specifically designed to help remove the carbon build up on direct injection vehicles.