BLUF: Contrary to popular belief by people whom have never tried to fit these pieces yet insist upon stating things as fact, the front brakes from the 2013+ Taurus will work on the 2010-2012. Makes it a great and easy upgrade. I don't know the specifics as to when the brakes changed, but I think it was the 2013+ PP and all 14+ had 13.8" rotors.
Some background: I have a 2011 SHO and I haven't really posted on here since I'm not really modding my car too much. In an effort to improve the weaknesses, mainly brakes, I have been researching all upgrades for the 2010-2012 (TCE, simply making my own Wilwood kit, or fitting the newer if it will work). I did the 2013+ Master Cylinder and Booster about a year ago and that helped, but I have overheated 3 sets of stock brakes (covered under warranty) in the first 3 months of owning the car. Upgraded to Powerstop rotors and ceramic pads, which helped the higher temp, but still would get too hot. Finally, I ended up finding the front rotors and brackets for the 2013+ really cheap and decided to give them a test fit. All of my searching was done using the 2014 MY to ensure I was getting everything correct. After finding the bracket fits right on with the correct clearance on the rotor, I ended up looking for the rest. Found the rest at RockAuto.
Size comparison 10-12/13+:
Front rotors: 12.8"(325mm)x1.1" / 13.8"(350mm)x1.25"
Rear rotors: 13"x0.4" solid / 13.5"x.75" vented
Caliper difference is negligible. Piston size is the same 47.5mm (x2) front and 43mm rear.
So here is the breakdown of the parts, tools and a how to guide.
*DISCLAIMER* I am not liable for any injury and/or damage resulting from improper installation and/or servicing of the brake system. Ensure you test your brakes at low speeds away from busy streets and gradually increase speed for proper pad bedding procedure.
The parts are not for the PP, but are designated as "Heavy Duty". The PP parts hare harder to find. I find these to be just as good, if not better.
Parts (All motorcraft except rotors and pads)
Calipers: BRCF208/BRCF209
Caliper Brackets: BRBC28/BRBC29
Rotors: Raybestos 680982
Pads: Raybestos EHT1611H
Hoses: BRHF129/BRHF64
Brake fluid: enough for the entire system if you would like
Tools (in order of use)
19mm socket (lug nuts)
17mm socket (caliper pin bolts)
Cut up metal hangar or something to hold the caliper
18mm socket (caliper bracket bolts)
Torx T-40 (rotor retaining bolt)
8mm wrench and socket (brake shield bolts)
A bunch of rags (pretty obvious why)
13mm tube wrench (hard line to brake line nut)
10mm (brake line bracket bolt)
14mm (banjo bolt)
10mm closed end wrench (bleeder)
Obviously jack the car up and support it properly with jack stands. Remove the wheels (19mm socket) and look at your inadequate brakes for a minute. I turned my wheels in the direction of the side I am working to make room for a breaker bar.
Start by removing the caliper pin bolts (17mm).
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0523_zpsgxyitk0y.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0523_zpsgxyitk0y.jpg.html)
Remove the caliper off the pads and take your metal hanger (or whatever you want to use to hold the caliper up) and secure it so it doesn't hang...makes it easier to remove the hose assembly later. Remove the pads.
Next remove the caliper bracket bolts (18mm) and pull the bracket off.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0525_zpsfkwv0s02.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0525_zpsfkwv0s02.jpg.html)
Remove the rotor retaining bolt (T-40) and take the rotor off.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0529_zpsnepljfyf.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0529_zpsnepljfyf.jpg.html)
If you want, compare the size of the rotors. Just a good visual. You can also see the nice discoloration from the heat and some nice glazing.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0528_zps30xk1np1.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0528_zps30xk1np1.jpg.html)
Remove the brake shield by using the 8mm wrench on the top bolt as a socket won't fit. There's 4 bolts total.
A nice ratcheting one is best, but I found mine after I got done.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0530_zpsbng7cxzf.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0530_zpsbng7cxzf.jpg.html)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0531_zpstp9txshp.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0531_zpstp9txshp.jpg.html)
Clean up the hub mating surface. I use anti-seize on the hub. Ensure you clean up the stud threads if you get any on there.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0532_zpsangbakqz.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0532_zpsangbakqz.jpg.html)
Install the rotor and secure it with the retaining bolt (T-40)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0533_zps1xtm5ns3.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0533_zps1xtm5ns3.jpg.html)
Put the new caliper bracket on (18mm). I torqued mine to 90ft lbs. That figure coincides to every other M12x1.75 bolt I have ever dealt with.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0536_zpsaayhlxvx.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0536_zpsaayhlxvx.jpg.html)
Comparison of the pad size.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0535_zpsih3zumbf.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0535_zpsih3zumbf.jpg.html)
Install the pads. Ensure you install the stainless steel shims/tab things that come with the new pads first. Some pads are side specific (inside/outside). Mine had different bumps (as shown below) and would interfere with the caliper on the outside so it wouldn't be flush.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0537_zpspf0foj4d.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0537_zpspf0foj4d.jpg.html)
Remove the 2 pins from the caliper brackets and leave the dust boots attached to the bracket. If they are not installed, shove some grease into the hole and install the dust boots first as they are secured internal to the bracket, not externally like most. Grease up the pins and install with the one that has the rubber bushing on top. Again, I torqued these to 90ft lbs since they are M12. If anyone has the correct torque specs, go ahead and post them.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0539_zpszcrknwh0.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0539_zpszcrknwh0.jpg.html)
Take your rags and place them on the control arm right under the hose connection. Helps grab the brake fluid.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0544_zpshpzizx5f.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0544_zpshpzizx5f.jpg.html)
*Top off your brake fluid reservoir*
Pop the ABS sensor wire out of the bracket. Take the 13mm tube wrench and loosen the fitting. You can remove it if you want, but I simply loosened it. Next remove the hose bracket bolt (10mm socket). I installed the new hose/bracket leaving it slightly lose to be able to move it to easily screw the tube nut in. Then I finished removing the old hose and quickly connected the new hose. Tighten up the hose bracket bolt and then finish tightening the tube nut.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0543_zpsoowh2mgn.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0543_zpsoowh2mgn.jpg.html)
One issue I ran into was the left side tubing nut had flared when it was installed. This made it difficult to remove as it was large than the threads. It also made it impossible to reinstall. I capped off the lines and was able to take a file and rotated the fitting while I held the file against the flared out part. Took a while, but worked nicely.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0545_zpsllwi3mn4.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0545_zpsllwi3mn4.jpg.html)
Connect the hose to the caliper (14mm). I didn't connect the hose to the caliper to allow it to gravity bleed. That's personal preference. I also left the bleeder open and connected my bleeder hose/container to gravity bleed. Clean up your rags and finish bleeding the brakes.
Here's the result. The fronts fit perfectly. You can reuse the front hoses if interested, but since mine were original I decided to buy new ones. Everything fits just as OEM.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0518_zpsqevbcdoq.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0518_zpsqevbcdoq.jpg.html)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0520_zpsmkoilv9l.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0520_zpsmkoilv9l.jpg.html)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0522_zpstrcazk2z.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0522_zpstrcazk2z.jpg.html)
Now I finally got the rears done and some time to post about it.
Parts
Calipers/brackets: got used off ebay. disassembled, plated, rebuilt.
Rotors: Ford BRR253 (also sent to get plated)
Pads: Raybestos EHT1612H
Hoses: Raybestos BH382852
Tools (in order of use)
Prybar/screwdriver (or something to remove the p-brake cable)
13mm (caliper bolts)
15mm (bracket bolts)
T-40 (rotor bolt)
8mm wrench (dust shield)
Die grinder or heavy duty tin snips (cutting the dust shield)
channel locks or other pliers
Rags
13mm tube wrench (hard line to brake line nut)
16mm/ 5/8 tube wrench (hose fitting at the caliper)
10mm closed end wrench (bleeder)
First, like the front, lift the car, support, remove the wheels. Then remove the parking brake cable. I used a prybar and a pair of pliers to compress the lever and maneuver the cable end. Then grab your 13mm wrench and remove the caliper bolt.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_122111_zpszmf2q4yy.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_122111_zpszmf2q4yy.jpg.html)
Pull off the caliper
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_122212_zpsnzvijf4f.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_122212_zpsnzvijf4f.jpg.html)
Use the 15mm to remove caliper bracket bolts and pull off the caliper.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_123328_zpswpp6cfsf.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_123328_zpswpp6cfsf.jpg.html)
Use the T-40 and pull the rotor bolt off, and the rotor.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_123708_zpsriu2jc7c.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_123708_zpsriu2jc7c.jpg.html)
The 8mm wrench will get the dust shield bolts out. Just like the front.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_123720_zpsovktsrjt.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_123720_zpsovktsrjt.jpg.html)
Now grab your die grinder or heavy duty tin snips and cut the dust shield at the most narrow part.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_124332_zpsqczuedl5.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_124332_zpsqczuedl5.jpg.html)
The pliers/channel locks are used to gradually bend/fold the metal to where you can remove the dust shield.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_124510_zpslhntav9h.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_124510_zpslhntav9h.jpg.html)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_124556_zpsjbcc1le4.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_124556_zpsjbcc1le4.jpg.html)
Now that it's removed, clean up the hub flange and throw some grease or antiseize on.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_124602_zpsxu8iytic.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_124602_zpsxu8iytic.jpg.html)
Install the rotor and rotor bolt with the T-40.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_125711_zpsokod2fxj.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_125711_zpsokod2fxj.jpg.html)
Install the caliper bracket with the 15mm. Torque to ~90ft lbs like the front.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_130945_zps12xowwoq.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_130945_zps12xowwoq.jpg.html)
Install the pads, again paying attention to the bumps to make sure they do not interfere with anything. They were different again.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_131102_zpsphwnixer.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_131102_zpsphwnixer.jpg.html)
Install the calipers with the bolts (13mm) and torque to ~35ft lbs.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/20160118_131530_zpsmlcb0kdk.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/20160118_131530_zpsmlcb0kdk.jpg.html)
Now, set the rags below the brake hose connection if you want. THere isn't anything underneath, so it's not required. Install the hose onto the caliper first, as it screws in straight. Loosen the tube nut from the hard line to the rubber line and back it all the way out. Then pull the retaining clip and the old caliper will fall down. Put the new hose up and align the tube and tube nut. Install the clip to retain it and screw in the tube nut. Tighten it down. Reinstall the p-brake cable the reverse of how it was removed. Bleed the brakes and you are done.
Let me know if there are any questions. I will follow up with my impressions after I get some miles.
Cool project, looking forward to developments, and good luck :thumb:
Nice job! what were the symptoms of the over heated brakes and how was it getting them replaced under warranty?
I didnt know anybody said the retrofit wasnt possible lol
I thought it was pretty well agreed upon this was a straight forward project that a novice could do in a few hours let alone a day lol......nice job though i guess lol
Quote from: Scott4957 on December 27, 2015, 10:23:44 PM
Nice job! what were the symptoms of the over heated brakes and how was it getting them replaced under warranty?
I guess it wouldn't have been warranty but my local dealer would replace them for free. I brought it in saying the brakes were not working properly. I had pictures on my old computer, but that has since passed and unfortunately, that folder was not backed up. The rotors were very discolored in the middle with surface fractures and obvious glazing. Daily 30 mile commute on country roads at that time.
Quote from: ajpturbo on December 27, 2015, 10:35:59 PM
I didnt know anybody said the retrofit wasnt possible lol
I thought it was pretty well agreed upon this was a straight forward project that a novice could do in a few hours let alone a day lol......nice job though i guess lol
Well, honestly, I have not really been on this particular forum...mostly on some of the others where people swore up and down the entire spindle assembly had to be changed to make these work. After a quick search, that is still what is said here. I hope people see this as a viable alternative to anything else.
The entire front "kit" cost me under $500. RockAuto has a majority of the parts pretty cheap (OEM calipers for about $80) and I got the rotors (Raybestos Advanced Tech). I'll get the part #s after I finish the install.
Nice job Timbo!!!!
Don't mind AJ, as you see he has a hard time saying anything nice....track record is one that proves this.
Keep us posted on this please.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Quote from: timbo on December 27, 2015, 10:08:47 PM
BLUF: Contrary to popular belief by people whom have never tried to fit these pieces yet insist upon stating things as fact, the front brakes from the 2013+ Taurus will work on the 2010-2012. Makes it a great and easy upgrade.
Some background: I have a 2011 SHO and I haven't really posted on here since I'm not really modding my car too much. In an effort to improve the weaknesses, mainly brakes, I have been researching all upgrades for the 2010-2012 (TCE, simply making my own Wilwood kit, or fitting the newer if it will work). I did the 2013+ Master Cylinder and Booster about a year ago and that helped, but I have overheated 3 sets of stock brakes (covered under warranty) in the first 3 months of owning the car. Upgraded to Powerstop rotors and ceramic pads, which helped the higher temp, but still would get too hot. Finally, I ended up finding the front rotors and brackets for the 2013+ really cheap and decided to give them a test fit. After finding the bracket fits right on with the correct clearance on the rotor, I ended up looking for the rest. Found the rest at RockAuto.
I have only installed the R side. The L will be done tomorrow along with bleeding. Depending on the time, I will install the rear.
Size comparison 10-12/13+:
Front rotors: 12.8"x1.1" / 13.8"x1.25"
Rear rotors: 13" solid / 13.5" vented
Caliper difference is negligible. Piston size is the same 47.5mm (x2) front and 43mm rear.
Here's the result. The fronts fit perfectly. You can reuse the front hoses if interested, but since mine were original I decided to buy new ones. Everything fits just as OEM.
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0518_zpsqevbcdoq.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0518_zpsqevbcdoq.jpg.html)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0520_zpsmkoilv9l.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0520_zpsmkoilv9l.jpg.html)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r510/timmilus84/Taurus/100_0522_zpstrcazk2z.jpg) (http://s1169.photobucket.com/user/timmilus84/media/Taurus/100_0522_zpstrcazk2z.jpg.html)
I'll take more pictures as I install the L side so it'll be a "How-to". FYI, the dust shield needs to be removed, only mod required.
so does this mean with the 2013+ performance package brakes?? It was my understanding that only the pp car had bigger brakes?? no?
Quote from: ajpturbo on December 27, 2015, 10:35:59 PM
I didnt know anybody said the retrofit wasnt possible lol
I thought it was pretty well agreed upon this was a straight forward project that a novice could do in a few hours let alone a day lol......nice job though i guess lol
I searched for about an hour trying to find anything about the 13+ brakes fitting on the 2010-2012 cars and came up with nothing. I did find 4 or 5 instances saying that they would definitely not fit, which is obviously false. If you can find anything stating this, please share that link.
The reason it took me so long was I have another project going on and really was not in a hurry to get the car done. I also was ensuring they actually fit and I took a bunch of pictures of the left side to document so that someone that is a "novice" could do this easily without needing to look through a toolbox. That will be my next post. It's also raining and the car is in the driveway.
Just to clarify, you replaced master cylinder, booster, caliper, rotors and pads?
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on December 28, 2015, 09:39:47 PM
Just to clarify, you replaced master cylinder, booster, caliper, rotors and pads?
Yes, but I did the Master Cylinder and booster upgrade about a year ago. That helped the feel, but did not help the heat. Since the piston area is the same between the 2 brake systems, the "feel" will only be changed by the increased mechanical advantage from the larger rotors. A lot of feel can be modified with the type of pad. The ceramic pads I had on the original brakes worked pretty well and kept working even when the rotor got really hot. A lot had to be attributed to the slotted rotors, but as you can see, those got pretty well destroyed.
Quote from: timbo on December 28, 2015, 11:28:48 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on December 28, 2015, 09:39:47 PM
Just to clarify, you replaced master cylinder, booster, caliper, rotors and pads?
Yes, but I did the Master Cylinder and booster upgrade about a year ago. That helped the feel, but did not help the heat. Since the piston area is the same between the 2 brake systems, the "feel" will only be changed by the increased mechanical advantage from the larger rotors. A lot of feel can be modified with the type of pad. The ceramic pads I had on the original brakes worked pretty well and kept working even when the rotor got really hot. A lot had to be attributed to the slotted rotors, but as you can see, those got pretty well destroyed.
Did you happen to do a write up for that procedure or did you use the old one floating around.
My car's brakes are terrible and I have already spent so much money trying to make them better.
It would actually mean a lot to me if I could give you a call some time to discuss it. It's probably easier to ask a bunch of questions over the phone.
Awesome write up and great leg work. Sounds like too, you will need the MC and Booster retrofit to make good use of the bigger brakes. Glad it all worked out great. GOOD JOB!!
Nice write up Timbo. Thank you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Awesome job, love the research and this is why this forum exists :)
Flex and Explorer owners can do similar upgrade too
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great information! Wish I had known this before I purchased new rotors and pads.
Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk
Quote from: bamsho on December 29, 2015, 12:00:56 PM
Awesome write up and great leg work. Sounds like too, you will need the MC and Booster retrofit to make good use of the bigger brakes. Glad it all worked out great. GOOD JOB!!
That should be the first upgrade to the brake system on any 2010-2012 Taurus/MKZ/etc. It makes the feel much better. I guess I shouldn't assume everyone has done this. Although, if you are ok with the way the 2010-2012 brakes feel and just want more capability, I guess this would be alright as the piston area remains the same.
I've put a few hundred miles on them now. City, highway, and spirited driving. First impression was favorable. Brakes were far more responsive (not surprising with the increase in torque). After they were broken in, the initial bite wore off slightly, but the brake feel is much more progressive and linear. Noticeable decrease in braking effort with the same result. I actually feel like I can activate the ABS/lock up my 275 UHP summer tires on dry pavement. Never got close with the OE size brakes.
Cool, nice update. Sounds like the upgrade is working great good.
What is rough estimate of parts cost? Including booster and master cylinder. I may look into doing this as my 2011 brakes are not so good as others have stated!
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on January 09, 2016, 01:21:23 AM
What is rough estimate of parts cost? Including booster and master cylinder. I may look into doing this as my 2011 brakes are not so good as others have stated!
Booster and MC come out to be around $230 if I remember correctly. It has the potential to be a messy job though...
Quote from: Bosscav on January 09, 2016, 10:11:08 AM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on January 09, 2016, 01:21:23 AM
What is rough estimate of parts cost? Including booster and master cylinder. I may look into doing this as my 2011 brakes are not so good as others have stated!
Booster and MC come out to be around $230 if I remember correctly. It has the potential to be a messy job though...
Not so worried about the mess. Since I am alone and don't have help to bleed the brakes, I will likely take to a friends shop and let him do the work that requires opening brake lines.
So I will probably buy all parts including calipers then have him install at once. Long as everything is a straight bolt in he will only charge me maybe $100 labor
Do it do it do it!!! :)
^X2
I walked away from a used 4.1 because the brakes were unacceptable.
The difference in braking power and fade resistance is absurdly different.
Between PP and non-pp I don't feel much difference except the PP pads dont b*tch at you when they get hot. Non-PP got pretty loud when they got hot which happened pretty quick. Sounded like a grinding noise. Never faded though.
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on January 09, 2016, 08:00:21 PM
Quote from: Bosscav on January 09, 2016, 10:11:08 AM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on January 09, 2016, 01:21:23 AM
What is rough estimate of parts cost? Including booster and master cylinder. I may look into doing this as my 2011 brakes are not so good as others have stated!
Booster and MC come out to be around $230 if I remember correctly. It has the potential to be a messy job though...
Not so worried about the mess. Since I am alone and don't have help to bleed the brakes, I will likely take to a friends shop and let him do the work that requires opening brake lines.
So I will probably buy all parts including calipers then have him install at once. Long as everything is a straight bolt in he will only charge me maybe $100 labor
I need to go to that guy's shop! Maybe he can do both of our MCs and Boosters at the same time.
People around me want to charge 3hrs of labor (at almost $100/hr)
The master and booster will cost less than $250. The front brake setup I put together cost about $475. It is not the PP brakes, but you can get a lot of different pads, so the PP are not necessary for "performance" oriented drivers. I ended up with the Raybestos Hybrid pads (EHT) and they seem to work very well with Raybestos Advanced Tech rotors. I have the rear brakes too that I will be putting on in a week or so, when I get some time. I'm also looking at putting some braided lines together, but that's for later.
Got the rear done and posted in the original post.
Impressions: I was not expecting the rears to be doing as much work as they really did. I had the stock metallic PP ones on the rear with the upgraded rotors, and they really didn't do much. I put the 2013+ rears with the EHT pads and holy crap do my rear brakes actually work. I find myself braking much later and I surprise myself when I hit the brakes. They are far more responsive and much better with the heat. I recommend this to anyone with the earlier brakes. Next upgrade will be some DOT teflon/SS braided hoses, but that will be next year.
Sweet! I think you are pushing more and more people towards the complete upgrade path :)
I am definitely going to do this upgrade. Its a good price for parts and I can do the install myself. Only wish FORD would make some racing parts for the Taurus SHO.
I really have no clue why Ford hasn't done a Brembo setup for this car. It makes way too much sense.
Quote from: timbo on February 07, 2016, 12:27:51 AM
I really have no clue why Ford hasn't done a Brembo setup for this car. It makes way too much sense.
Have to draw the line somewhere....need to stay south of 50 grand....its a small niche market...i would say the members of this forum dont represent the norm owner of this car...i see alot of old fuddy duds in these sho's that couldnt care less if there were brembos on it
Quote from: ajpturbo on February 07, 2016, 01:09:31 AM
Quote from: timbo on February 07, 2016, 12:27:51 AM
I really have no clue why Ford hasn't done a Brembo setup for this car. It makes way too much sense.
Have to draw the line somewhere....need to stay south of 50 grand....its a small niche market...i would say the members of this forum dont represent the norm owner of this car...i see alot of old fuddy duds in these sho's that couldnt care less if there were brembos on it
I disagree, the guys driving SHO's are the same guys that would be driving ST's if they were 20 years younger.
Old fuddy duds buy Lincolns, not SHOs
Hey now! Lincoln's for young whippersnappers too! As far as Ford not providing the upmarket brakes, they obviously didn't think that the economics are there for them to get into that area. They want to do what they do best, and RFP out the rest. Works for me! I mean if we as consumers are just given all the solutions, where would we, as enthusiasts, get to showcase our ideas & skills with DIY? :D
This sounds like a no brainer if you have to replace a caliper on a 2010-2012 then, might as well upgrade both sides How do you think it would work without the master cylinder upgrade?
Quote from: Blackhawk on February 08, 2016, 05:07:08 PM
This sounds like a no brainer if you have to replace a caliper on a 2010-2012 then, might as well upgrade both sides How do you think it would work without the master cylinder upgrade?
Caliper piston areas are the same between the 2 setups, so the feel would be identical. Should work fine, but I recommend forking over for the upgraded master cylinder/booster.
2010-2012 Master cylinder bore is 1-1/16" (1.062)
2013+ has differential bore at 1.537 Front and 1.125 rear. That is how it has so much better feel and how it's much more responsive.
So, If I have a 2011 PP, would this upgrade be useless?
Thanks,
Z
Quote from: Zorin on March 11, 2016, 07:39:36 AM
So, If I have a 2011 PP, would this upgrade be useless?
Thanks,
Z
No, this upgrade is full of win PP or not.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 11, 2016, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: Zorin on March 11, 2016, 07:39:36 AM
So, If I have a 2011 PP, would this upgrade be useless?
Thanks,
Z
No, this upgrade is full of win PP or not.
One might also consider changing the rotor for a '13+ style. That would give you the whole package... Which amounts to 60% more swept area at a larger radius which should increase braking. That might need the master cylinder swap.
The OEM brakes on my '13 are adequate and do have some bite, but a high speed quick stop is still nerve wracking in a 4400lb car from 80+ mph... I will be upgrading as soon as it's time for pads.
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 11, 2016, 08:31:38 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 11, 2016, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: Zorin on March 11, 2016, 07:39:36 AM
So, If I have a 2011 PP, would this upgrade be useless?
Thanks,
Z
No, this upgrade is full of win PP or not.
One might also consider changing the rotor for a '13+ style. That would give you the whole package... Which amounts to 60% more swept area at a larger radius which should increase braking. That might need the master cylinder swap.
The OEM brakes on my '13 are adequate and do have some bite, but a high speed quick stop is still nerve wracking in a 4400lb car from 80+ mph... I will be upgrading as soon as it's time for pads.
Sorry BigMac, I thought he was referring to the whole package.
I'm not sure adequate is a fair adjective for gen 4.2. 60-0 is 106 ft.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/2013-ford-taurus-sho-performance-package-first-test/ (http://www.motortrend.com/news/2013-ford-taurus-sho-performance-package-first-test/)
Now to put this in perspective...
http://www.motortrend.com/news/22-cars-that-stop-from-mph-in-less-than-100-feet/ (http://www.motortrend.com/news/22-cars-that-stop-from-mph-in-less-than-100-feet/)
And this...
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2012/02/2012-annual-auto-issue-best-cars-for-braking/index.htm (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2012/02/2012-annual-auto-issue-best-cars-for-braking/index.htm)
And this...
http://www.motortrend.com/news/20-best-60-to-0-distances-recorded/ (http://www.motortrend.com/news/20-best-60-to-0-distances-recorded/)
Personally I think the brakes perform pretty darn well. 5 ft more than a 2013 GT500? I'm good with that. Beyond a possible pad swap and some stickier tires to enhance performance its very hard for me to justify the outlay for a BBK setup. I'm skeptical about non OEM rotors as well. I don't want another expensive lesson where the Ford engineers made the best tool for the job (CAI)
I think the 4.1-4.2 full upgrade represents an awesome value for the level of performance you end up with. Going past that the law of diminishing returns may rear its ugly head. I'd love to see some instrumented testing of the uber expensive Wilwood setup.
Ive laid into my pp brakes so many times during data logging at deep into triple digit speeds....i aint skeered of the stock brakes
Brake fluid system flush anyone,might help especially living in warmer humid climates. Z
So as I understand this, the setup works but you lose the dust shields? Is that correct?
Does anyone know if that's a PA state inspection item? It would be bad to do the upgrade only to be flagged for that inconsequential part.
By my previous failed vehicles yes it is. That's what is holding me up on doing this. But idk if there is an exception maybe since the pps don't have them from the factory.
I think the PP has dust shields....and i dont think you can fail for not having them....how would the tech know if it had them or not anyway from the factory...i highly doubt its a requirement...in fact i would laugh in the guys face and say i guess you dont get my money lol
I think pa just dosent want me driving a straighpiped 393 bronco sitting on 37s around lol. When I try looking through my numbers for pp vs non pp I come up with 2c208 and 2k004 both of which have a non pp/ interceptor call out and then a -1 version of both for sho pakage 1 (pp) which for all my Google fu gets me are severely cut down versions. For 7 dollars a piece I may order both and compare. The other big change is the knuckles and wheel bearings are different between the sho/interceptor and pp. They may have changed the bolt pattern on the bearing which may change the baking plate. I was really kind of surprised knuckles and bearings are different yet axles are the same
I think the knuckles and bearings are only different between the 4.1 and 4.2 gen cars....bolt patteren for hubs are all the same
I'm looking a 13 non pp and 13 pp vin numbers for the part lookups. It's showing a difference idk. I meant for the bearing bolts to the knuckles for the bolt pattern. Bigger bearing usually means bigger bolt pattern or why the change in the knuckle itself?
New member, sorry bumping an old thread, but I was using this as a guide for a swap on my 2011 EB Flex...
Here are the parts the OP spec'd
QuoteParts (All motorcraft except rotors and pads)
Calipers: BRCF208/BRCF209
Caliper Brackets: BRBC28/BRBC29
Rotors: Raybestos 680982
Pads: Raybestos EHT1611H
Hoses: BRHF129/BRHF64
Here are the parts I spec'd off of Rockauto mostly
QuoteCaliper
Motorcraft FR BRCF292
Motorcraft FL BRCF293
Rotor
MOTORCRAFT BRRF112 or MOTORCRAFT BRR252 or RAYBESTOS 680982
Pads
RAYBESTOS PGD1611C or MOTORCRAFT BR1611
Caliper Bracket
R&L DG1Z2B292A
Dust Shield
FL DG1Z2K005A
FR DG1Z2K004A
Possible stainless brake line
Goodridge 12348 Brake Line
Now my questions lie in the calipers and brackets...I've been told the Police Interceptor Utility with HD brakes and the Flex with HD brakes are the same as SHO HD brakes...is that a wrong assumption? Also, the brackets I found off the Ford parts website don't spec a different caliper bracket between right and left...just the one...
Any help would be appreciated
The caliper brackets are identical between left and right sides. The calipers are only different because of the location of the bleeder, otherwise, the castings are identical.
The calipers themselves may have a different part # for the PP due to the vented pistons that are installed.
Hope that helps.
Quote from: timbo on November 14, 2016, 02:16:18 PM
The caliper brackets are identical between left and right sides. The calipers are only different because of the location of the bleeder, otherwise, the castings are identical.
The calipers themselves may have a different part # for the PP due to the vented pistons that are installed.
Hope that helps.
When working with Ford's that is generally what I've come across. This platform is new to me though, I've generally stuck to Panther's and trucks, so this is my first foray into the D3/4 platform. So when cross referencing everything, it got a bit hazy and convoluted. Getting different information and part numbers from different sources. I think, reading through and searching through the Ford parts catalog, I've been able to lock down the part #'s I'll need. The organizer/researched/OCD person I am, I have all my parts listed in a spreadsheet with prices from multiple sources :roflpicard:
I'm looking to do this on my 2012 MKS, but does anyone know if the Lincoln 19 inch wheels will clear the bigger brakes? I don't want to have to upgrade to 20 inch wheels...
I would be really surprised if there were a clearance issue given that the rotor size on all '13+ are the same and they still come with 19" wheels.
Do the PP calipers also clear the 19" or just need a little grinding down, or not fit at all?
Quote from: SHOdded on November 15, 2016, 05:47:13 PM
Do the PP calipers also clear the 19" or just need a little grinding down, or not fit at all?
The '13+ PP calipers are the exact same body as the non-PP. Differences are only internal...different seals and vented pistons. The actual caliper body is identical and bolts to the exact same brackets.
I even returned my factory calipers for a large core credit in the PP boxes as they are identical in appearance save for the red seals.
Cost was around $40 per caliper doing it that way. Small price for brand new upgraded calipers.
Quote from: Ryan02Stang on November 15, 2016, 04:46:33 PM
I'm looking to do this on my 2012 MKS, but does anyone know if the Lincoln 19 inch wheels will clear the bigger brakes? I don't want to have to upgrade to 20 inch wheels...
Fancy meeting you here, haha
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: Ryan02Stang on November 15, 2016, 04:46:33 PM
I'm looking to do this on my 2012 MKS, but does anyone know if the Lincoln 19 inch wheels will clear the bigger brakes? I don't want to have to upgrade to 20 inch wheels...
Fancy meeting you here, haha
Not that I would, but could you, theoretically, throw the non-PP calipers on the PP brackets, and run the larger rotor set?
Quote from: Ryan02Stang on November 15, 2016, 04:46:33 PM
I'm looking to do this on my 2012 MKS, but does anyone know if the Lincoln 19 inch wheels will clear the bigger brakes? I don't want to have to upgrade to 20 inch wheels...
Not 100% guaranteed, but you should be able to fit an 18" wheel with correct backspace, the 19" OE wheels should work.
It may even be possible to clear certain 17" wheels if so desired with the PP brakes.
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: Ryan02Stang on November 15, 2016, 04:46:33 PM
I'm looking to do this on my 2012 MKS, but does anyone know if the Lincoln 19 inch wheels will clear the bigger brakes? I don't want to have to upgrade to 20 inch wheels...
Fancy meeting you here, haha
Not that I would, but could you, theoretically, throw the non-PP calipers on the PP brackets, and run the larger rotor set?
I want to make sure to say that my information is based on the SHO/MKS. I'm not sure if it directly relates to other vehicles.
If you have a '10-'12 SHO/MKS, you need the brackets from a '13+ to upgrade to the larger rotors. The '13+ has the same brackets regardless of PP or non-PP as the caliper bodies and rotor size are identical.
Quote from: sholxgt on November 17, 2016, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: Ryan02Stang on November 15, 2016, 04:46:33 PM
I'm looking to do this on my 2012 MKS, but does anyone know if the Lincoln 19 inch wheels will clear the bigger brakes? I don't want to have to upgrade to 20 inch wheels...
Fancy meeting you here, haha
Not that I would, but could you, theoretically, throw the non-PP calipers on the PP brackets, and run the larger rotor set?
I want to make sure to say that my information is based on the SHO/MKS. I'm not sure if it directly relates to other vehicles.
If you have a '10-'12 SHO/MKS, you need the brackets from a '13+ to upgrade to the larger rotors. The '13+ has the same brackets regardless of PP or non-PP as the caliper bodies and rotor size are identical.
That much I know. I have a 2011 Flex, so I'll be upgrading brackets. Just for the future, if someone stumbled upon this thread, whether the stock (pre-'13) calipers or just the '13+ non-PP calipers would work with new brackets and rotors.
I have brand new EBC red stuff pads and a pair of 3GD sport rotors for 13+ sho for 300$ parts go for about 450$ someone needs them
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 03:21:52 PM
Quote from: sholxgt on November 17, 2016, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: Ryan02Stang on November 15, 2016, 04:46:33 PM
I'm looking to do this on my 2012 MKS, but does anyone know if the Lincoln 19 inch wheels will clear the bigger brakes? I don't want to have to upgrade to 20 inch wheels...
Fancy meeting you here, haha
Not that I would, but could you, theoretically, throw the non-PP calipers on the PP brackets, and run the larger rotor set?
I want to make sure to say that my information is based on the SHO/MKS. I'm not sure if it directly relates to other vehicles.
If you have a '10-'12 SHO/MKS, you need the brackets from a '13+ to upgrade to the larger rotors. The '13+ has the same brackets regardless of PP or non-PP as the caliper bodies and rotor size are identical.
That much I know. I have a 2011 Flex, so I'll be upgrading brackets. Just for the future, if someone stumbled upon this thread, whether the stock (pre-'13) calipers or just the '13+ non-PP calipers would work with new brackets and rotors.
Calipers attach to the brackets in a different manner, so no. The 2010-2012 calipers are attached to the bracket by an 8mm through-bolt to the slide pin. The 2013+ has 14mm threads on the slide pin that go into the caliper and subsequently the bracket, no extra bolt.
Quote from: timbo on December 10, 2016, 11:17:35 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 03:21:52 PM
Quote from: sholxgt on November 17, 2016, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on November 17, 2016, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: Ryan02Stang on November 15, 2016, 04:46:33 PM
I'm looking to do this on my 2012 MKS, but does anyone know if the Lincoln 19 inch wheels will clear the bigger brakes? I don't want to have to upgrade to 20 inch wheels...
Fancy meeting you here, haha
Not that I would, but could you, theoretically, throw the non-PP calipers on the PP brackets, and run the larger rotor set?
I want to make sure to say that my information is based on the SHO/MKS. I'm not sure if it directly relates to other vehicles.
If you have a '10-'12 SHO/MKS, you need the brackets from a '13+ to upgrade to the larger rotors. The '13+ has the same brackets regardless of PP or non-PP as the caliper bodies and rotor size are identical.
That much I know. I have a 2011 Flex, so I'll be upgrading brackets. Just for the future, if someone stumbled upon this thread, whether the stock (pre-'13) calipers or just the '13+ non-PP calipers would work with new brackets and rotors.
Calipers attach to the brackets in a different manner, so no. The 2010-2012 calipers are attached to the bracket by an 8mm through-bolt to the slide pin. The 2013+ has 14mm threads on the slide pin that go into the caliper and subsequently the bracket, no extra bolt.
Taking the plunge, and bought the new brackets, rotors, pads, and splash guards. Was hoping the calipers would be the same, but glad I came back here. Still just going to collect parts for the time being, and when I'm closer to doing the swap (i.e. it's not 15 degrees outside) I'll buy the calipers and attempt the core return...We'll see how that goes.
(http://i.imgur.com/VNAQfhD.jpg)
Most of my parts for big brakes are incoming (waiting on the calipers until I'm closer to the actual swap so I'm not rushed with the core.) Made this quick spreadsheet to track prices...I will say that Tasca parts, where many get parts, has a great selection, but their shipping prices are pretty outrageous, and why most of my purchases are RockAuto. These are all Motorcraft parts. Probably should have listed shipping prices. But this give you at least an idea of pre-shipping/tax price for all the parts needed. Let me know if I left something off.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 07, 2016, 01:13:02 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo on February 07, 2016, 01:09:31 AM
Quote from: timbo on February 07, 2016, 12:27:51 AM
I really have no clue why Ford hasn't done a Brembo setup for this car. It makes way too much sense.
Have to draw the line somewhere....need to stay south of 50 grand....its a small niche market...i would say the members of this forum dont represent the norm owner of this car...i see alot of old fuddy duds in these sho's that couldnt care less if there were brembos on it
I disagree, the guys driving SHO's are the same guys that would be driving ST's if they were 20 years younger.
Old fuddy duds buy Lincolns, not SHOs
Hmmm, self burn...
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on April 20, 2017, 08:47:18 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 07, 2016, 01:13:02 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo on February 07, 2016, 01:09:31 AM
Quote from: timbo on February 07, 2016, 12:27:51 AM
I really have no clue why Ford hasn't done a Brembo setup for this car. It makes way too much sense.
Have to draw the line somewhere....need to stay south of 50 grand....its a small niche market...i would say the members of this forum dont represent the norm owner of this car...i see alot of old fuddy duds in these sho's that couldnt care less if there were brembos on it
I disagree, the guys driving SHO's are the same guys that would be driving ST's if they were 20 years younger.
Old fuddy duds buy Lincolns, not SHOs
Hmmm, self burn...
Wow, guess I can call them. LOL
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 20, 2017, 10:32:55 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on April 20, 2017, 08:47:18 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 07, 2016, 01:13:02 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo on February 07, 2016, 01:09:31 AM
Quote from: timbo on February 07, 2016, 12:27:51 AM
I really have no clue why Ford hasn't done a Brembo setup for this car. It makes way too much sense.
Have to draw the line somewhere....need to stay south of 50 grand....its a small niche market...i would say the members of this forum dont represent the norm owner of this car...i see alot of old fuddy duds in these sho's that couldnt care less if there were brembos on it
I disagree, the guys driving SHO's are the same guys that would be driving ST's if they were 20 years younger.
Old fuddy duds buy Lincolns, not SHOs
Hmmm, self burn...
Wow, guess I can call them. LOL
Whats worse is I think I like he wood trimmed interior better than the Ecoboost package trim, lol...
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on April 20, 2017, 10:47:01 PM
Whats worse is I think I like he wood trimmed interior better than the Ecoboost package trim, lol...
Welcome to the Dark Side.
Quote from: AJP turbo on November 17, 2016, 03:45:48 PM
I have brand new EBC red stuff pads and a pair of 3GD sport rotors for 13+ sho for 300$ parts go for about 450$ someone needs them
Is after market cheaper or better than just buying and installing the PP brakes on a Non PP SHO ?
Quote from: Primalzer on February 07, 2017, 11:47:18 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/VNAQfhD.jpg)
Most of my parts for big brakes are incoming (waiting on the calipers until I'm closer to the actual swap so I'm not rushed with the core.) Made this quick spreadsheet to track prices...I will say that Tasca parts, where many get parts, has a great selection, but their shipping prices are pretty outrageous, and why most of my purchases are RockAuto. These are all Motorcraft parts. Probably should have listed shipping prices. But this give you at least an idea of pre-shipping/tax price for all the parts needed. Let me know if I left something off.
So a little update...Did the install the weekend before this last one. I've always had a spongey pedal, but had always attributed it to the front pads being low (or so I was told) and the small front calipers.
Most of the parts went on without issue. The only part that I didn't get on was the splash shield listed above. Unless I was going to create a new hole, it wasn't fitting on the existing hub. One other little issue was that my rotors didn't come with the vent holes between the rotor hat and rotor surface, like the other models get. Maybe I got the wrong model number? Or Maybe Ford stopped putting the holes on. I don't think it should hamper performance or anything, just an observation. Got my hands on a Motive power bleeder and tried that route. After the first bleed through (actually a full fluid swap), went and took a test drive. The pedal was as spongey as ever (maybe worse?) and panic stops were a slow stop, definitely not a hurried affair. Went back, and bled it 2 more times. 2nd time getting a couple little bubbles, but nothing crazy. Clean and clear fluid. The 2nd time, just for good measure, clean and clear fluid with absolutely no bubbles. Huh.
That Monday took the car to the Ford dealer (the vehicle is under an extended warranty). Told them of my issues and they got to work. They ended up replacing the right rear rotor (the left rear had been replaced under warranty, a few weeks before.) They re-bled the system, but it was still spongey and brakes weren't stopping the vehicle as they should. They took off the master cylinder bench tested and bled, and re-installed (it had apparently passed the pressure tests.) They told me to come and test drive it, to see if it felt right. It did not. No difference. They dug back in, and finally tested the hydraulic control unit/ABS module, and that tested out bad. Replaced under warranty. Friday afternoon, picked up my car, and had working brakes! Better than they had ever been. Still not as good as the 2016 EcoBoost Flex loaner I was given, but at least I could get the ABS going on wet pavement (never was able to do that before.) So after all was said and done, I have the upgraded front rotors, calipers, and pads from 13+ SHO/Police, new rear rotors, and a new ABS module. Not bad for about $400 all in.
Ok so add ABS module to list of possibilities in brake issues, along with MC/BB.
Quote from: SHOdded on May 22, 2017, 06:32:52 PM
Ok so add ABS module to list of possibilities in brake issues, along with MC/BB.
After doing a ton of research, there were a couple of people that swear the MC is not the weak link in the chain, and it's really the ABS Module. Obviously it's a case by case basis, but it's definitely something to look out for
What is the part number for the ABS module?
Timbo, Primalzer, and Shodded has anyone put together a complete list of parts and part numbers yet?
From MC to brake lines. @primalzer you're my hero with that spread sheet!
Need to get this complete upgrade done asap!
Anyone have any suggestions on Shocks and Struts for a 2012? I do not want to lower it with H&R springs, as I do drive in snow and the roads are bad.
But wouldn't mind it dropping a little, but can't bring myself to do the coilovers, as it's $800 for a "nice" to have...
Thoughts?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The only "drop" I have seen without springs/coilovers is cutting the rear springs a bit. Unfortunately no aftermarket shock options, now as to PP vs non-PP shocks, IDK. If the roads are bad enough, coilovers are not a good way to go even with the adjustable height feature.
Cutting the rear springs
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5204 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5204)
What shocks/struts do you guys run or recommend then? I saw a shock and spring combo all in one online, but to be honest, I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to this stuff, so I really appreciate you all giving feedback on this stuff!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just finished this install using powerstop rotors and pads/Motorcraft brackets and calipers. Have only done the front, as my rear EBC rotors and pads are working nicely and have lots of life left. The disks/pads are the Z37 "Top Cop" package available from Rockauto. Now Im just waiting on my rear calipers to have a seized slider or worn pads, they will be upgraded along with a +13 booster and M/C.
Quote from: Agent502 on June 02, 2017, 10:59:38 PM
...Timbo, Primalzer, and Shodded has anyone put together a complete list of parts and part numbers yet?
From MC to brake lines. @primalzer you're my hero with that spread sheet!
Need to get this complete upgrade done asap!...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not that I know of. I put together the list of parts I used that I know will fit. As for the Booster and Master, that is a separate upgrade and while I believe they should be done at the same time, they are not required to be. There is a full write-up with Ford part #s for that.
booster/mc retrofit
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,609 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,609)
Quote from: SHOdded on June 14, 2017, 07:00:07 PM
booster/mc retrofit
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,609 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,609)
Literally the only reason to do the +13 brakes and booster/MC at the same time is to reduce the amount of brake bleeding you have to do. I have noticed zero ill effect on the 2010 Booster/MC using the +13 "police" brakes. Very smooth application, engagement begins at the top of the pedal travel and is very firm. I do agree that you will likely get the best performance with the entire system upgraded, but its by no means a necessity to do them on any timeline other than as the parts need to be replaced.
Good to know. Some may actually prefer the feel of the 10-12' brakes, and just adding the larger 13+ brakes may satisfy their requirement. I think you're the first to do it that way as many had already done the Booster/Master.
Any reason why this brake upgrade couldn't work on the 2013+ non-SHO Taurus as well? My understanding is the non-SHO's have the same brakes as the 2010-2012's but I have seen some say the 2013+ SHO has a different knuckle that would prevent such a retrofit.
Quote from: Mustang5L5 on September 13, 2017, 12:26:25 PM
Any reason why this brake upgrade couldn't work on the 2013+ non-SHO Taurus as well? My understanding is the non-SHO's have the same brakes as the 2010-2012's but I have seen some say the 2013+ SHO has a different knuckle that would prevent such a retrofit.
First question is, what are you gaining by going with the SHO caliper over the non-SHO? The physical caliper brackets between the SHO and non-SHO are the exact same (BRBC28 and 29.) The calipers themselves are different only in the internals (the SHO caliper being a bit more heat tolerant with difference in the pistons.) But they are otherwise dimensionally the same. The rotors are giving me different part numbers, but I'm having a hard time finding the dimensions of the SHO rotors vs non-SHO rotors. I'm not sure this totally answers your question, but maybe informs a bit, hopefully?
Non-SHO Caliper
(http://www.rockauto.com/info/48/8A8Z2B121AA-FRO__ra_p.jpg)
SHO Caliper (notice the red piston seals)
(http://www.rockauto.com/info/48/DG1Z2B120A-FRO__ra_p.jpg)
Quote from: Primalzer on September 14, 2017, 11:45:47 AM
First question is, what are you gaining by going with the SHO caliper over the non-SHO? The physical caliper brackets between the SHO and non-SHO are the exact same (BRBC28 and 29.) The calipers themselves are different only in the internals (the SHO caliper being a bit more heat tolerant with difference in the pistons.) But they are otherwise dimensionally the same. The rotors are giving me different part numbers, but I'm having a hard time finding the dimensions of the SHO rotors vs non-SHO rotors. I'm not sure this totally answers your question, but maybe informs a bit, hopefully?
The '13+ non-SHO's wear the same brakes as the 2010-2012's. 325mm(12.8") front / 330mm (12.99") rear. So really the swap would be gaining the same thing as any one with an '10-12 doing the upgrade.
MC and booster are the same on all '13+, so really what I want to do is the next time I need front brakes, just swap to the 14" brakes and get a little bit more stopping power for my driving habits and fill up my 19" wheels a bit more with bigger rotors.
Cost for the fronts is $175 to do original diameter rotors and pads, or $360ish to go to the 14" setup (rotors, calipers, pads, dust shields). So the difference is $185 for the front setup.
What I haven't found is any other '13+ non-sho guys doing the swap. I'm not unfamiliar with brake swaps, but I've seen claims that the knuckle is different between the various '13+ models, so trying to understand if this is the case before I spent money on parts
Quote from: Mustang5L5 on September 14, 2017, 12:12:14 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on September 14, 2017, 11:45:47 AM
First question is, what are you gaining by going with the SHO caliper over the non-SHO? The physical caliper brackets between the SHO and non-SHO are the exact same (BRBC28 and 29.) The calipers themselves are different only in the internals (the SHO caliper being a bit more heat tolerant with difference in the pistons.) But they are otherwise dimensionally the same. The rotors are giving me different part numbers, but I'm having a hard time finding the dimensions of the SHO rotors vs non-SHO rotors. I'm not sure this totally answers your question, but maybe informs a bit, hopefully?
The '13+ non-SHO's wear the same brakes as the 2010-2012's. 325mm(12.8") front / 330mm (12.99") rear. So really the swap would be gaining the same thing as any one with an '10-12 doing the upgrade.
MC and booster are the same on all '13+, so really what I want to do is the next time I need front brakes, just swap to the 14" brakes and get a little bit more stopping power for my driving habits and fill up my 19" wheels a bit more with bigger rotors.
Cost for the fronts is $175 to do original diameter rotors and pads, or $360ish to go to the 14" setup (rotors, calipers, pads, dust shields). So the difference is $185 for the front setup.
What I haven't found is any other '13+ non-sho guys doing the swap. I'm not unfamiliar with brake swaps, but I've seen claims that the knuckle is different between the various '13+ models, so trying to understand if this is the case before I spent money on parts
I believe you'd only be swapping the calipers and rotors, as the brackets are the same (at least for fronts)
The 10-12 (of which I did the swap) the brackets need to change as well.
Quote from: Primalzer on September 14, 2017, 02:04:47 PM
Quote from: Mustang5L5 on September 14, 2017, 12:12:14 PM
Quote from: Primalzer on September 14, 2017, 11:45:47 AM
First question is, what are you gaining by going with the SHO caliper over the non-SHO? The physical caliper brackets between the SHO and non-SHO are the exact same (BRBC28 and 29.) The calipers themselves are different only in the internals (the SHO caliper being a bit more heat tolerant with difference in the pistons.) But they are otherwise dimensionally the same. The rotors are giving me different part numbers, but I'm having a hard time finding the dimensions of the SHO rotors vs non-SHO rotors. I'm not sure this totally answers your question, but maybe informs a bit, hopefully?
The '13+ non-SHO's wear the same brakes as the 2010-2012's. 325mm(12.8") front / 330mm (12.99") rear. So really the swap would be gaining the same thing as any one with an '10-12 doing the upgrade.
MC and booster are the same on all '13+, so really what I want to do is the next time I need front brakes, just swap to the 14" brakes and get a little bit more stopping power for my driving habits and fill up my 19" wheels a bit more with bigger rotors.
Cost for the fronts is $175 to do original diameter rotors and pads, or $360ish to go to the 14" setup (rotors, calipers, pads, dust shields). So the difference is $185 for the front setup.
What I haven't found is any other '13+ non-sho guys doing the swap. I'm not unfamiliar with brake swaps, but I've seen claims that the knuckle is different between the various '13+ models, so trying to understand if this is the case before I spent money on parts
I believe you'd only be swapping the calipers and rotors, as the brackets are the same (at least for fronts)
The 10-12 (of which I did the swap) the brackets need to change as well.
I'm finding conflicting info which doesn't make sense.
I've seen BRBC28-29 listed as the caliper bracket for the SHO, but have also seen some sources list it as working on my Limited, and some cite BB5Z2B292D/BB5Z2B293D as being the brackets for the non-SHO.
Looking at my current brackets, I don't see these fitting over a 14" rotor. The grove the rotor spins through it tight to the rotor with little clearance. They would make contact on larger rotor I was planning on buying one of the BRBC28/29 brackets on ebay and doing a test fit. Only $35 or so and I can just do a quick test fit to see if it bolts up to my knuckle
A little bit of irony. The SHO brake components are actually cheaper than the non-SHO versions. I'm even finding same brand rotors to be cheaper.
I would double check to see if those alternate part numbers are actually the same as the original part number I posted. Ford is notorious for having like 4 different part numbers for the same part.
And yeah, when I was going through and doing the swap, the SHO components were noticeably cheaper than the standard versions, which I found extremely odd, but also satisfying.
Any gen 4.1 guys have any issues with core return?
Quote from: Mustang5L5 on September 13, 2017, 12:26:25 PM
Any reason why this brake upgrade couldn't work on the 2013+ non-SHO Taurus as well? My understanding is the non-SHO's have the same brakes as the 2010-2012's but I have seen some say the 2013+ SHO has a different knuckle that would prevent such a retrofit.
I would love to confirm this, but by research has shown there was only the overlap in 2013 MY only for the smaller brakes. Beginning 2014, the part numbers are all the same, except the performance package calipers have the vented pistons and silicon boots for heat.
The spindle is different only in the fact that it uses the 2 bolt mounting to the strut vs the big hole/pinch style of the 10-12.
The purpose of this thread was to show that the brakes will mount between the 2. I ordered all the parts for a 2014 Taurus and put them on my 2011.