Where to begin.. EcoHell has 45494 miles on her. I drove from NY to FL and arrived on Monday (7/12/21) with no issues. I get back in EcoHell on Tuesday around 3pm and the wrench light pops up and when stepping on the gas it felt like it was running on 3 cylinders, until around 2000 rpms and it ran fine. I immediately made a u-turn and returned back to the house. Used my scanner and didn't have any "terrain management system fault" codes. Had an O2 sensor code which I always had, just not enough to set off the Check Engine light (has nothing to do with this particular story, but just mentioning it). When I turn off the engine and open the door, the wrench light will not return unless you start the engine, go forward or reverse and actually press on the gas pedal.
Wednesday - I called the nearest Ford Dealership to setup an appointment. They were very accommodating, since I was visiting from NY. I called AAA to discuss having EcoHell flatbedded to the dealership. Everything is going as planned so far. I then go outside to smoke a cigarette standing next to the driver's side wheel under the carport (not touching or leaning on vehicle). Moments later, I hear a loud clunking noise from the wheel area..and I mean loud enough to assume the exhaust fell off the car. I look under the car and nothing..everything seemed fine.
I start her up and everything appears normal. I back out of the carport and when I press on the gas pedal no wrench light. I back up further pressing the gas and still no light. I stop, go forward pressing on the gas pedal and still no wrench light. I then take a small trip around the neighborhood to see how EcoHell is performing. Keep in mind the speed limit is 20mph so the fastest I could go was around 40mph (which was for testing purposes). EcoHell is running like she did before..all is fine.
I am posting this because I never had the wrench light come on. I never had any of my vehicles act like this where it clunked and drives as if nothing happens. What are your experiences with the Terrain Management System Fault - wrench light?
Bill
I have had none with my two Fords yet.
Quote from: Macgyver on July 14, 2021, 07:31:48 PM
I have had none with my two Fords yet.
Consider yourself lucky.. I enjoyed the ride (literally..ha!) until it happened.
Quote from: EcoHell on July 14, 2021, 03:38:02 PM
I then go outside to smoke a cigarette standing next to the driver's side wheel under the carport (not touching or leaning on vehicle). Moments later, I hear a loud clunking noise from the wheel area..and I mean loud enough to assume the exhaust fell off the car. I look under the car and nothing..everything seemed fine.
Bill
So let's get a little clearer picture on the clunk. was the car running, had it just recent run to operating temp and was off?
Quote from: TopherSho on July 15, 2021, 01:53:13 PMSo let's get a little clearer picture on the clunk. was the car running, had it just recent run to operating temp and was off?
No, to the car running. As I mentioned above, I arrived from NY on Monday (did not use vehicle after I arrived on that day, which was 1AM). Tuesday is as described in the original post.
More specifics on Wednesday when the clunking occurred... I tested the car in the late morning hours once to see if the wrench light would come back on. Car started as usual, no wench light. I placed car in reverse and as soon as I touched the gas pedal, the wrench light appeared and the same symptoms occurred. I stopped and put vehicle back under carport and did not touch vehicle again. That took 30 seconds at most. The clunking occurred around 2:30pm'ish.
Since you are bringing up temperature.. On Wednesday - hot 90+ degree, low humidity day. We received a thunderstorm around noon which dropped the temp about 20 degrees under the carport (from 100 to 80 - we have a temperature gauge under the carport). I tested the vehicle prior the storm. Storm lowered the temp but brought the humidity up. It was at this time, I was standing next to the driver's side front tire under the carport (not touching the car), smoking a cigarette and the clunk occurred.
Dually noted! The thought I had was the car was very recently off (under 2 minutes) or it was running and combusted a pool of gas in the cat from a bad injector (more on that below).
But dead cold, no-hands clunk... I'm baffled. The only thing that makes sense is something in the AWD\4WD was bound up and let go. But that would not explain what sounds like a misfire.
The symptoms of your missing cylinders sounds like a bad MAF leading to lean/over wet conditions; Bad injector that sticks and then unsticks flooding the cylinder and wetting the plug; goop/condensed water in the CAC/intercooler and lastly a bad throttle plate/throttle body.
But a bad throttle body would throw a position error .. the ecu is good at picking that up.
Quote from: TopherSho on July 15, 2021, 03:57:13 PM
Dually noted! The thought I had was the car was very recently off (under 2 minutes) or it was running and combusted a pool of gas in the cat from a bad injector (more on that below). But dead cold, no-hands clunk... I'm baffled. The only thing that makes sense is something in the AWD\4WD was bound up and let go. But that would not explain what sounds like a misfire. The symptoms of your missing cylinders sounds like a bad MAF leading to lean/over wet conditions; Bad injector that sticks and then unsticks flooding the cylinder and wetting the plug; goop/condensed water in the CAC/intercooler and lastly a bad throttle plate/throttle body.
But a bad throttle body would throw a position error .. the ecu is good at picking that up.
There were other forums discussing the Terrain Management System Fault where power seemed to be lost and people were involved with accidents because of it. I agree that something appeared to be bound up and when the temperature drastically dropped, it lost its hold. I drove the vehicle today with no issues.
Definitely not a misfire, I was thinking because the TMS was faulty, it probably tells the computer to not power up. I am guessing here, but because I never had this happen before, thought I would mention what occurred. I will post in the other forums and report back if someone had this issue and knows what happened.
Ok... apparently the fix was short lived. It was fine yesterday, however, today it happened again. There is more information to provide.. so for the tech's out there, please read..
A couple of weeks before driving to Florida, I had installed an ICOM radio (ham) in my vehicle. Wired directly from the battery. I am also using the 2nd row inverter to plug in a node for internet usage with my radio. I drove all the way from NY to FL, making a 3 hour stop in GA to see old friends, hitting major rain storms to include a squall in GA...lots of humidity besides the rain/water.
When the wrench light first came on, I emptied my vehicle thinking it was going to Ford, which involved removing the radio and node. When I got in the vehicle yesterday, no wrench light and vehicle drove fine. Today, thinking my vehicle was good, I reinstalled the radio and plugged in the node and when backing out of the driveway, as soon as I gave her gas, the damn wrench light came back on. Going on a hunch it was the radio and node as that was the only thing I did differently, I disconnected them and when I backed out of the driveway, no wrench light.
This was short lived after a 5 mile drive to the Post Office. When I returned to my vehicle, the wrench light came back on.
My question is, could this be a battery issue? I am thinking the modules for the vehicles need a specific voltage to run normally... perhaps my battery needs to be replaced. Is this even remotely possible?
Thanks in advance for any responses that can answer my question(s).
Bill
Do the inverse now. Take it all out and see how many days it stays error free. For Tunes etc. Use a bluetooth speaker and you will retain phone call functions etc. Then install one thing at a time.
Have you reset anything by taking the negative cable off and positive cable off and putting a jumper between them do discharge all the vehicle energy ?
Quote from: EcoHell on July 17, 2021, 09:55:54 PM
Ok... apparently the fix was short lived. It was fine yesterday, however, today it happened again. There is more information to provide.. so for the tech's out there, please read..
A couple of weeks before driving to Florida, I had installed an ICOM radio (ham) in my vehicle. Wired directly from the battery. I am also using the 2nd row inverter to plug in a node for internet usage with my radio. I drove all the way from NY to FL, making a 3 hour stop in GA to see old friends, hitting major rain storms to include a squall in GA...lots of humidity besides the rain/water.
When the wrench light first came on, I emptied my vehicle thinking it was going to Ford, which involved removing the radio and node. When I got in the vehicle yesterday, no wrench light and vehicle drove fine. Today, thinking my vehicle was good, I reinstalled the radio and plugged in the node and when backing out of the driveway, as soon as I gave her gas, the damn wrench light came back on. Going on a hunch it was the radio and node as that was the only thing I did differently, I disconnected them and when I backed out of the driveway, no wrench light.
This was short lived after a 5 mile drive to the Post Office. When I returned to my vehicle, the wrench light came back on.
My question is, could this be a battery issue? I am thinking the modules for the vehicles need a specific voltage to run normally... perhaps my battery needs to be replaced. Is this even remotely possible?
Thanks in advance for any responses that can answer my question(s).
Bill
monitor the 12v battery charge while driving.. see if it is dipping into the low 11's
Ok. I pulled the trigger and purchased and installed a new battery. Did not hook up the ICOM radio, nor the node, not even my phone. I will say, the only extra electronic item powered is a dash cam, front and rear.
Tested the vehicle after the install and BAAAAMMMM... frigging wrench light appeared. Would have been nice if it was the battery, but unfortunately not. I am bringing my vehicle to a shop, instead of Ford and see what they say about it. I know the owners..so definitely trustworthy. Depending on what they say, will determine if they fix it or I bring it to Ford.
Thanks for the responses.. and I will advise of the findings.
Stay Tuned...
well, fingers crossed. After the battery install and the vehicle apparently "re-learning" itself with the newer/greater voltage, it seems to have fixed, whether temporarily or permanently, my Terrain Management System issue. The vehicle is at a shop and they will try to get the vehicle to give the wrench light again.
It drove fine yesterday, did a couple of chores, then drove to the shop. I will later advise of any issues going forward.
Quote from: EcoHell on July 21, 2021, 12:57:47 AM
well, fingers crossed. After the battery install and the vehicle apparently "re-learning" itself with the newer/greater voltage, it seems to have fixed, whether temporarily or permanently, my Terrain Management System issue. The vehicle is at a shop and they will try to get the vehicle to give the wrench light again.
It drove fine yesterday, did a couple of chores, then drove to the shop. I will later advise of any issues going forward.
Did the shop trigger the relearn? I had a bad flash that required a relearn on the ACC, TCU that was only able to be done on the ford issued IDS systems. I mention it as a long term relearn without IDS) might suffice for now but you might see it off and on until the mean-average exceeds whatever threshold was triping it up.
I am glad to hear of progress. When my battery was slow to take a charge i could drive around town until about the 4/5th restart and the transmission would not go into gear. it was wild... but after letting the car sit for 10 minutes the battery would be good enough to get me home.
I could not get the BMS to relearn the new battery along with some minor issues. I solved my issues via letting it sit a few days on a trickle charger. Dont know why how etc but nothing worked except that.
Quote from: TopherSho on July 21, 2021, 10:07:18 AM
Did the shop trigger the relearn? I had a bad flash that required a relearn on the ACC, TCU that was only able to be done on the ford issued IDS systems. I mention it as a long term relearn without IDS) might suffice for now but you might see it off and on until the mean-average exceeds whatever threshold was triping it up.
I am glad to hear of progress. When my battery was slow to take a charge i could drive around town until about the 4/5th restart and the transmission would not go into gear. it was wild... but after letting the car sit for 10 minutes the battery would be good enough to get me home.
NO, the shop was not able to get the wrench light to come on.. the vehicle drove fine after I picked her up yesterday.. I did some chores and when I was done at the last store, started the car and the damn wrench light came back on.
I am wondering if it is the alternator going bad. I am thinking of purchasing and installing the Police version alternator. I am returning the vehicle to the shop later today, since the wrench light is on, they should be able to better determine what the issue is (I hope). Perhaps I will have to get a TMS module..hope not.
I am also curious about how good is the inverter in the Explorers?
And lastly, I will have the shop determine where the newly installed dash cam is pulling power from. That was the latest install in my vehicle before all this crap starting happening.
Thanks for responding..
Quote from: Macgyver on July 21, 2021, 05:07:00 PM
I could not get the BMS to relearn the new battery along with some minor issues. I solved my issues via letting it sit a few days on a trickle charger. Dont know why how etc but nothing worked except that.
So you installed a new battery and shortly afterwards used the trickle charger? Did it ever return afterwards? how long ago has it been after the trickle charger?
Thanks,
Bill
OI! Good luck.. reply with updates.
Quote from: EcoHell on July 22, 2021, 03:00:35 AM
Quote from: Macgyver on July 21, 2021, 05:07:00 PM
I could not get the BMS to relearn the new battery along with some minor issues. I solved my issues via letting it sit a few days on a trickle charger. Dont know why how etc but nothing worked except that.
So you installed a new battery and shortly afterwards used the trickle charger? Did it ever return afterwards? how long ago has it been after the trickle charger?
Thanks,
Bill
Yes and this was on a 2015 SHO. She sat 3 days if I recall. Fri Sat Sun then used for work on Mon morn. Just a basic trickle charger too.
Quote from: Macgyver on July 22, 2021, 03:37:23 PMYes and this was on a 2015 SHO. She sat 3 days if I recall. Fri Sat Sun then used for work on Mon morn. Just a basic trickle charger too.
Ok. Thanks.. I will hook one up tonight.
Alright fellow Sport'ees, apparently the issue is fixed. It is clearly a voltage issue. After doing the battery reset, no more Wrench Light/Terrain Management System Fault. I am still going to purchase a higher output alternator, as I would like to have my radio equipment installed. I do not have any electrical accessories plugged in at the moment, except for the USB port for my phone.
I will say this.. the owner's manual to conduct a battery reset is a little ridiculous. If you want a chuckle take a read on page 296 on the left side. If you need to ever reset your battery..read that page, then very quickly put the manual back in the case and throw it back in your glove box and forget about it. Use the following method:
1) hit the start button without stepping on the brake..
2) flash your bright lights 5 times consecutively then quickly;
3) press firmly on your brake pedal 3 times
After this you will see your Battery light flash (I believe is 3 times), then you will see the Check Engine light flash (I believe it is 5-6 times). Then you have to drive the vehicle 12 miles or in my case, let the vehicle sit for 4 days*.
*I doubt it has to be 4 days, I did not need my vehicle those days, that was the only reason why it sat for that long.
Lastly, I will say this.. after doing the search on multiple forums and talking to my shop, if you ONLY have the Wrench light/Terrain Management System fault message come on, it will more and likely be a voltage issue. Others had additional messages and lights come on, which unfortunately will be more than voltage issues.
Anyhoot, hope this helps someone in the future if they have this issue. BTW.. I just purchased and received another mod going on EcoHell. Stay tuned..should be installed this week.
Good notes to keep under the hat, thanks for the share and update!
All I can do is laugh at my predicament on the low voltage issue mentioned earlier. I did purchase a high output alternator (Singer) shortly after my last post above. Everything was working out great.. I left for NY this past Sunday from FL. I drove straight through with no issues with EcoHell. On Tuesday, I had to go to my other house which is about 45 minutes away. In the middle of the drive, the damn Wrench Light came back on with the same issue(s) as described before. Let's just say I was fuming, given the money I had spent while in FL. While I was driving, I was thinking what it could be.. could it be the high output alternator took a s***, killing my new battery. There was only two things plugged into the vehicle 1) USB cord charging my cell phone and 2) my node plugged into the 110 outlet in the 2nd row.
While driving I unplugged both.
I made it to my other house. I checked the battery with a voltmeter. Battery was perfect..alternator was performing perfectly as well. Then it hit me..
When I purchased EcoHell, I began modding at 700 miles. One of those mods was...wait for it....the Pedal Commander. There were other issues associated with this product, so I turned it off, but it remained connected.
Took me all but 5 minutes to remove it and reconnect the stock connectors, So, let's reflect a little.. purchased a brand new AGM battery and a high output alternator (over $1000), when it turned out to be the Pedal Commander causing the problem in the first place. If it happens again..EcoHell may be traded in.. LOL.
Anyhoot, my next mod is removing the roof rails. Stay tuned for pics...
Also, did you guys receive the latest issues with our Sport? Received in the mail there is an issue with the cooling fan...jeeezzz
plugins will do weird things, even obd II devices. the communications bus can be very touchy, especially at startup when systems checks are running.
Incredible story to followup. I emailed Pedal Commander to ask them if they had this particular issue with Ford Explorers or other vehicles. I received a phone call from Pedal Commander (PC) hours later (they are located in CA). They did have this very issue when off roading with radio equipment and created better RF protection connectors. They are replacing my unit with the newer version.
If you are ever wanting to mod your vehicle(s), to make your vehicle respond quicker (PC is not a tune), PC is for you, both in quality of product and great customer service. Just note that when I first installed it I did run into an issue. Only one other Explorer owner expressed the same issue. I shared my experience in my thread about EcoHell.
Once I receive the newer unit, i will install it and advise in my other thread the outcome in both the issue mentioned above and the voltage issue regarding the All Terrain Management Fault light.
Once I uninstalled the PC, I have NOT had any more voltage issues with EcoHell.
Quote from: SHOdded on October 03, 2021, 06:47:13 AM
plugins will do weird things, even obd II devices. the communications bus can be very touchy, especially at startup when systems checks are running.
I learned the hardway. I never thought about the PC, especially with the unit turned off when I was going through my issues. It would have saved me lots of money, but it is done and water under the bridge.