So i have made the decision to try and upgrade my 11' brake system without doing the 13+ retrofit. I don't want to add 4lbs per side of rotating mass with the larger rotors and think i can get the stock setup to bite hard enough with the right pad/rotor combo. . . at least enough for my taste.
However, that doesn't do anything to address the pedal feel.
Thus i'm wondering if it would work out ok to swap the Master cylinder from a 13+ onto my 11' without upgrading the rotors&calipers etc.?
From Timbo's retrofit thread
"2010-2012 Master cylinder bore is 1-1/16" (1.062)
2013+ has differential bore at 1.537 Front and 1.125 rear. That is how it has so much better feel and how it's much more responsive."
The caliper piston area is the same between 10-12 and 13+.
Could i expect the brakes to behave normally with just upgrading the MC?
Is it required to do the brake booster with the MC upgrade?
Sorry for all the brake questions lately! lol
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 25, 2018, 01:57:44 PM
So i have made the decision to try and upgrade my 11' brake system without doing the 13+ retrofit. I don't want to add 4lbs per side of rotating mass with the larger rotors and think i can get the stock setup to bite hard enough with the right pad/rotor combo. . . at least enough for my taste.
However, that doesn't do anything to address the pedal feel.
Thus i'm wondering if it would work out ok to swap the Master cylinder from a 13+ onto my 11' without upgrading the rotors&calipers etc.?
From Timbo's retrofit thread
"2010-2012 Master cylinder bore is 1-1/16" (1.062)
2013+ has differential bore at 1.537 Front and 1.125 rear. That is how it has so much better feel and how it's much more responsive."
The caliper piston area is the same between 10-12 and 13+.
Could i expect the brakes to behave normally with just upgrading the MC?
Is it required to do the brake booster with the MC upgrade?
Sorry for all the brake questions lately! lol
The cool thing about this as you can upgrade piece by piece, I'm doing it the opposite way...calipers/rotors/pads/lines/fluid first.
Once the rears are on (if they ever show up) I will decide if and how I will proceed.
I had yellowstuff and they are no joke. If you don't upgrade the rest of your hardware I'd highly suggest those pads. They bite like crazy. I actually think the initial bite was a little overboard and wanted a more "linear" pedal so I went with redstuffs.
My biggest concern not upgrading the hardware would be the fade monster rearing its head under extended use which the newer bits are much less prone to.
I don't notice the extra 4 lbs at all and the new hardware is beautiful...I can't wait for some new wheels to show off my new hardware.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 25, 2018, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 25, 2018, 01:57:44 PM
So i have made the decision to try and upgrade my 11' brake system without doing the 13+ retrofit. I don't want to add 4lbs per side of rotating mass with the larger rotors and think i can get the stock setup to bite hard enough with the right pad/rotor combo. . . at least enough for my taste.
However, that doesn't do anything to address the pedal feel.
Thus i'm wondering if it would work out ok to swap the Master cylinder from a 13+ onto my 11' without upgrading the rotors&calipers etc.?
From Timbo's retrofit thread
"2010-2012 Master cylinder bore is 1-1/16" (1.062)
2013+ has differential bore at 1.537 Front and 1.125 rear. That is how it has so much better feel and how it's much more responsive."
The caliper piston area is the same between 10-12 and 13+.
Could i expect the brakes to behave normally with just upgrading the MC?
Is it required to do the brake booster with the MC upgrade?
Sorry for all the brake questions lately! lol
The cool thing about this as you can upgrade piece by piece, I'm doing it the opposite way...calipers/rotors/pads/lines/fluid first.
Once the rears are on (if they ever show up) I will decide if and how I will proceed.
I had yellowstuff and they are no joke. If you don't upgrade the rest of your hardware I'd highly suggest those pads. They bite like crazy. I actually think the initial bite was a little overboard and wanted a more "linear" pedal so I went with redstuffs.
My biggest concern not upgrading the hardware would be the fade monster rearing its head under extended use which the newer bits are much less prone to.
I don't notice the extra 4 lbs at all and the new hardware is beautiful...I can't wait for some new wheels to show off my new hardware.
Thanks for the input. and yes your new brake setup is damn fine looking! I also plan on getting the powdercoated powerstop calipers for my application.
I already purchased/stole the redstuff pads off amazon for a whopping $30 so i'm obligated to try those first and go from there.
As far as the extra weight goes . . . i intentionally bought very light wheels and would rather not offset that by adding it back in. I'm sure you can't feel it but i'm a true believer in less rotating mass the better.
I've heard it thrown around that the tuned 10-12's seem to be a tick quicker than the 13+ cars. Doubt the extra rotor weight has much to do with it but just a thought.
Any idea if master cylinder and brake booster need to be upgraded together?
I upgraded both when I went to my Wilwood set up at all 4 corners.
I don't see any reason why you cannot do one at a time.
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Strategically, which would one do first?
The MKS has a brand new booster courtesy of a warranty repair.
Ripping out a brand new part seems wasteful, lol.
From a friend of mine that does lots of rally work: "What big race are you trying to win?" That extra 4 lbs of weight will be relatively insignificant. The 2013+ Tauruses are heavier than the 10-12, so the difference in time may be attributed to that. Also, are the cars you speak of the same? PP vs Non-PP? Gearing is different between the 2.
You may get the same initial bite, but the heat capacity is the main reason for going with the larger/heavier rotor. Ford purposely went with a much thicker rotor to increase the thermal mass.
As for which mod to do first: If you are ok with the feel, I would simply change out to the 13+ Rotors/Calipers/Pads. Maybe add in the Goodridge braided stainless brake lines. If you are starting from scratch and still have enough brake from the original pads/rotors, I would switch the master cylinder first. Or, just do it all at the same time...only have to bleed the brakes once.
Something to consider with the earlier brakes: The 10-12 use phenolic (plastic) pistons, so if you are putting a lot of heat into the brakes, they may distort/expand and cause some problems. I know on most AL calipers with these pistons, nearly every year or two, they have needed to be replaced due to this. The pistons on the 2013+ are Metal (Chrome plated Steel I believe) and are the same dimensions as the earlier ones, so they are an option if you are rebuilding your brakes. I have my full 2011 PP setup stripped and plated in preparation for that rebuild, but I obviously did the 13+.
I'm not super happy with the feel so I think I'm just going to do the PB/MS when the rears are done.
Don't get me wrong, it stops well with the front conversion and yellowstuff on the rear 11 setup.
The SHOs have spoiled me.
LOL
I also did the upgraded Goodridge brake lines and noticed a small noticeable increase in pressure and less "squash" of the brake peddle. This was on stock 2011 pp brakes at the time so I could get an accurate assessment of what I just did actually worked. In time I upgraded to yellow stuff pads and stock rotors and was very impressed for what it is. However, those pads are meant to be warm (at least) all the time to work well otherwise it feels like they eat through the rotors quicker.