So I'm getting a shudder on the 1-2 shift when at WOT. That's the only time it happens is this a common problem and a sign of something coming? I have just shy of 60,000 miles, I had the trams flushed last summer and the RDU fluid changed at the sa,e time. PTU has not ben touched. I'm going to go back to stock tomorrow and see if I can replicate it to rule anything funny with the tune. I'll be stopping in the dealership on Friday so I hope it's something that I can replicate when stock since I'm under warranty.
PTU can of course be an issue, but so can bad gas, fuel injector, and spark plug. No codes, I'm assuming? Any oil in the plug wells (valve cover gasket leak)? Excessive oil in the intake/CAC?
X2 on that,agree with -MANU with excessive oil in the cac or condensation buildup primarily on cold and rainy days are more vulnerable,theres a couple of TSB for the 2011 and also check out this article,hope it helps any,good luck with the fix and keep us updated.Z. http://blog.bluespringsfordparts.com/245/ecoboost-shudder/ (http://blog.bluespringsfordparts.com/245/ecoboost-shudder/)
Quote from: SHOdded on March 16, 2015, 07:38:48 PM
PTU can of course be an issue, but so can bad gas, fuel injector, and spark plug. No codes, I'm assuming? Any oil in the plug wells (valve cover gasket leak)? Excessive oil in the intake/CAC?
I'll check for codes tomorrow when I go back to stock. The shudder is only at the 1-2 shift. Almost feels like wheel spin or hop. Other then the shift she pulls strong and hard until I get out of it. That is what makes me think it's trans/driveline related.
Agreed. Hope it pops up with stock tune so it can be remedied.
Donky, before you do anything hasty and go to the dealer ask LMS what your 1-2 WOT shift pressure is near redline. If you have anything near or north of 220 that is too much pressure. I see that you have a 4x tune...I'm not really sure what that is in the Livernois world but I'm going to guess it's on the aggressive side.
I had the shutter also. Others were talking about wheel hop...I didn't think that's what it was but I just figured if that's what everyone was saying I went with it...I lowered my pressure to about 200 and it hasn't done it since.
I only noticed mine after a reflash but after the tune aged a little the adaptive for oncoming shift elements lowered the pressure a bit and I wouldn't get it. I think that's why some people may notice quicker shifts after a reflash. It's just because the adaptive hasn't kicked in yet, the adaptive can be disabled completely or the amount of adaptive can be redefined as to how much or little is applied and where and when lol..It's complicated....Also I found in my strategy the 2-3 pressures are really high even in part throttle...I lowered them as well so even after a reflash the 2-3 isn't so rough....Hope that helps...The shuttering to me almost sounds like tranny slipping but I've read that it's just not catching the gear and not as bad as it sounds but I'm not sure
Very interesting. Wouldn't lowering the shift pressure cause the transmission to slip more during the shift?
I think bosscav had his SHO's shift pressure adjusted by LME to correct that stutter in the 1-2 shift, and it's working great for him. Maybe that IS the fix for Don's SHO also.
It has to be the shift pressure...4x plus tune is given out with the warning...."track tune"...not daily driver. Thing is, it's perfectly fine unless WOT from a dig. Then you get the little stutter on shift from 1-2. So if your driving around going balls out all the time, get it softened or switch to another tune. If not, save those WOT pulls for meaning and don't sweat it.
Rich
Quote from: 91hybrid on March 16, 2015, 11:02:40 PM
Very interesting. Wouldn't lowering the shift pressure cause the transmission to slip more during the shift?
I don't actually think it's a slip issue...it's more of something not catching like it needs more time to engage the next gear and with too much pressure being commanded in the oncoming element tables u are not giving it enough time....that's my guess I could be wrong..but I know lowering the pressure to 200 down from 220 helped and I didn't like how the shuttering sounded at all
It's really nice having AJP around to explain all this tuning s*** to us
Thanks!
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 17, 2015, 12:04:01 AM
It's really nice having AJP around to explain all this tuning s*** to us
Thanks!
Thanks fomo...Well I'm not a pro and I'm sure I will get corrected from time to time...but I'm deep into it and I know some things that will help..I've wasted too much money on software and tunes and should've been happy before with what I had but I can't leave well enough alone plus I enjoy it..
I've had a couple bad tunes before from big names that left me jaded so here I am
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 17, 2015, 12:10:01 AM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 17, 2015, 12:04:01 AM
It's really nice having AJP around to explain all this tuning s*** to us
Thanks!
Thanks fomo...Well I'm not a pro and I'm sure I will get corrected from time to time...but I'm deep into it and I know some things that will help..I've wasted too much money on software and tunes and should've been happy before with what I had but I can't leave well enough alone plus I enjoy it..
I've had a couple bad tunes before from big names that left me jaded so here I am
Well, I came from a forum where the vendors actually explained things and even helped the guys with the Pro Race package. This forum is quite different as everyone is sooooo worried about their "proprietary tuning" blah, blah, blah. This stuff fascinates me and I just want to learn how it all works.
Here's some basic info related to transmission shift pressure:
http://freeasestudyguides.com/transmission-pressure-control.html (http://freeasestudyguides.com/transmission-pressure-control.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_control_unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_control_unit)
Transmission Pressure Control Solenoid (PCS) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UAeYUtc1hA#)
Transmission Shift Solenoid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24gkmDDV0C8#)
We are able to "tune" these parameters because of the move to shift and pressure control solenoids.
Quote from: SHOdded on March 17, 2015, 06:34:27 AM
Here's some basic info related to transmission shift pressure:
http://freeasestudyguides.com/transmission-pressure-control.html (http://freeasestudyguides.com/transmission-pressure-control.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_control_unit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_control_unit)
Transmission Pressure Control Solenoid (PCS) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UAeYUtc1hA#)
Transmission Shift Solenoid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24gkmDDV0C8#)
We are able to "tune" these parameters because of the move to shift and pressure control solenoids.
Thanks Manu. As always, a timely reference to help me and the rest of the group who really should understand more about how our cars actually work.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 17, 2015, 12:04:01 AM
It's really nice having AJP around to explain all this tuning s*** to us
Thanks!
I wouldnt call the tuning (s***) but AJP perspective and input on tuning is greatly appreciated from my point of view,just a little less bashing on vendors like LME would be nice,and that 3-bar s*** is getting kind of old,LOL.Z
It seems that this is only an issue at WOT high RPM 1-2 shifts and is somewhat sporadic. Does lowering the pressure to eliminate the 1-2 stutter result in a "lag" during the shift similar to stock tune....or is is still firm and crisp but without the stutter?
If you were going to the track, would you want the higher pressure and potential stutter or would you want the pressure dialed back? Like others, I have experienced this after a reflash but it typically calms down some after driving awhile and has never occurred at less than WOT.
Quote from: Brucelinc on March 17, 2015, 09:48:32 AM
It seems that this is only an issue at WOT high RPM 1-2 shifts and is somewhat sporadic. Does lowering the pressure to eliminate the 1-2 stutter result in a "lag" during the shift similar to stock tune....or is is still firm and crisp but without the stutter?
If you were going to the track, would you want the higher pressure and potential stutter or would you want the pressure dialed back? Like others, I have experienced this after a reflash but it typically calms down some after driving awhile and has never occurred at less than WOT.
The shutter sounds bad..I wouldn't want it even at the track...and reducing the pressure to say 200 is still well over stock and won't give a laggy shift at all...at wot is where the highest pressure is
Quote from: ZSHO on March 17, 2015, 08:59:41 AM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 17, 2015, 12:04:01 AM
It's really nice having AJP around to explain all this tuning s*** to us
Thanks!
I wouldnt call the tuning (s***) but AJP perspective and input on tuning is greatly appreciated from my point of view,just a little less bashing on vendors like LME would be nice,and that 3-bar s*** is getting kind of old,LOL.Z
Honestly Z, that wasn't a dig on LME, it was a statement about tuning in general. It's like Mandarin to me and its nice to have someone around who can translate it.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 17, 2015, 02:09:18 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 17, 2015, 08:59:41 AM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 17, 2015, 12:04:01 AM
It's really nice having AJP around to explain all this tuning s*** to us
Thanks!
I wouldnt call the tuning (s***) but AJP perspective and input on tuning is greatly appreciated from my point of view,just a little less bashing on vendors like LME would be nice,and that 3-bar s*** is getting kind of old,LOL.Z
Honestly Z, that wasn't a dig on LME, it was a statement about tuning in general. It's like Mandarin to me and its nice to have someone around who can translate it.
Understood(just to clarify things up due to context)the only statement against you was twards the comment about tuning s***,the rest was directed twards AJP.
So I was too busy today to get back to stock and see if the issue follows. I'll get to it tomorrow after work and see.
+1 on it being shift pressure. Back when I was running Unleashed I had the same issue and thought it was wheel hop. After I explained it to Torrie he said it was shift pressure. I believe at the time he had it set to 250. Once he set me to 200, the issue went away and the shift was still crisp.
Back to stock and no shudder now. I emailed Anthony to ask about shift pressures.
LME got back to me with the 4X plus tune that should fix the 1-2 shudder. They said they also added grade assist to it which makes the car perform like the 13+ does when you put it in Sport mode. I just put the car in manual but let it shift itself. I went for a short 4 mile drive to pick up dinner and the shudder is gone and the grade assist seems pretty sweet. More testing and playing with it later this weekend. Thanks again to to LME for a fast turn time on getting ,e squared away.
Quote from: donky4444 on March 20, 2015, 07:53:00 PM
LME got back to me with the 4X plus tune that should fix the 1-2 shudder. They said they also added grade assist to it which makes the car perform like the 13+ does when you put it in Sport mode. I just put the car in manual but let it shift itself. I went for a short 4 mile drive to pick up dinner and the shudder is gone and the grade assist seems pretty sweet. More testing and playing with it later this weekend. Thanks again to to LME for a fast turn time on getting ,e squared away.
Don... Glad to hear the stutter is gone!
I think you will notice that grade assist also functions in the cars downshifting algorithms even when on level ground in "D"... mine does anyway... I love it. It improves throttle responsiveness at low speeds.
Quote from: donky4444 on March 20, 2015, 07:53:00 PM
LME got back to me with the 4X plus tune that should fix the 1-2 shudder. They said they also added grade assist to it which makes the car perform like the 13+ does when you put it in Sport mode. I just put the car in manual but let it shift itself. I went for a short 4 mile drive to pick up dinner and the shudder is gone and the grade assist seems pretty sweet. More testing and playing with it later this weekend. Thanks again to to LME for a fast turn time on getting ,e squared away.
A fast turn around was the least they could do...No need to pat them on the back for something that needed addressed....It's like when someone sends you the wrong part then they say don't worry you don't have to pay the shipping back lol...Damn right you don't.
Never hurts to play nice, except when you are left no option, aj. Don, I hope that gremlin has been banished forever and ever!
Quite honestly what matters to me most is getting your issues rectified by a tuning co and instead of having to drag myself to the local dealer with a worrisome look.
Seeing comments that may make someone not want to share their experiences with us, what keeps the forums alive, is just painful. AJ, you need a hug man...lol
Rich
Did some testing tonight. -15% shift pressure on 1-2 made a noticeable difference in the "shudder" but it's still there so I'm going to try -25% next.
Don, it's all about the pressure in the 1-2 shift. Quite a few guys are developing that anomaly now. Not a problem, just an inconvenience. I'm glad Anthony and Dan were able to help you.
Bosscav, didn't you say the pressure was dropped from 250 to 200 by LME? So, wasinger, I hope that 25% cut makes the cut for you.
How much is the stock pressure? Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?
Quote from: Brucelinc on March 21, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
How much is the stock pressure? Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?
Stock is about 150-175 I'll look when I get home I can't remember exactly...it doesn't take a lot to make a noticeable difference...the pressure smoothly increases with the amount of torque commanded and with rpm...so at wot and at 6500 rpm in the table is where the values are highest.
And all the tables for each gear is different...the 2-3 part throttle pressures are way higher than the other gears at part throttle..not sure why ford did that so I lowered mine to what the other gears are and it shifts smoothly after a reflash so the adaptive doesn't have much to learn...also it seems that the higher gears can tolerate more pressure at wot than the 1-2 shift...don't ask me why
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 21, 2015, 09:42:32 AM
Quote from: Brucelinc on March 21, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
How much is the stock pressure? Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?
Stock is about 150-175 I'll look when I get home I can't remember exactly...it doesn't take a lot to make a noticeable difference...the pressure smoothly increases with the amount of torque commanded and with rpm...so at wot and at 6500 rpm in the table is where the values are highest.
And all the tables for each gear is different...the 2-3 part throttle pressures are way higher than the other gears at part throttle..not sure why ford did that so I lowered mine to what the other gears are and it shifts smoothly after a reflash so the adaptive doesn't have much to learn...also it seems that the higher gears can tolerate more pressure at wot than the 1-2 shift...don't ask me why
I wish I know what it was at now and what the number actually represents. Is it 200 psi? Or just some kind of reresentarive number... I used my x4 to lower it by 25% of what I don't know... it's better still but for some reason after 4 or 5 wot runs the car goes back to the shudder shift. Like it enjoys being stupid...
I asked Torrie to change the shift pressure last night at 2am and I woke up to a new tune haha. Love that service!
So I'll see how it does now.
Yeah pretty sure it's psi...I'll look at the units when I get home....wasinger I hate the global modifiers that u can do on the device..I'm not really sure how they are applied to the tune..personally I prefer to change the values in the actual tables but u would need the software and the tune in mtf format which most tuners won't give u anyway..so in ur case ur doing what u can...it's really not cost effective to have the software and pay a tuner for the mtf,assuming he will even give it to u, unless u enjoy tinkering and learning to tune...much cheaper to just buy a tune from lms or torrie
Quote from: wasinger3000 on March 21, 2015, 10:06:09 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 21, 2015, 09:42:32 AM
Quote from: Brucelinc on March 21, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
How much is the stock pressure? Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?
Stock is about 150-175 I'll look when I get home I can't remember exactly...it doesn't take a lot to make a noticeable difference...the pressure smoothly increases with the amount of torque commanded and with rpm...so at wot and at 6500 rpm in the table is where the values are highest.
And all the tables for each gear is different...the 2-3 part throttle pressures are way higher than the other gears at part throttle..not sure why ford did that so I lowered mine to what the other gears are and it shifts smoothly after a reflash so the adaptive doesn't have much to learn...also it seems that the higher gears can tolerate more pressure at wot than the 1-2 shift...don't ask me why
I wish I know what it was at now and what the number actually represents. Is it 200 psi? Or just some kind of reresentarive number... I used my x4 to lower it by 25% of what I don't know... it's better still but for some reason after 4 or 5 wot runs the car goes back to the shudder shift. Like it enjoys being stupid...
I asked Torrie to change the shift pressure last night at 2am and I woke up to a new tune haha. Love that service!
So I'll see how it does now.
Hope this tune works to stop your problem...
The problem ajp points out is also complicated by the learning nature of the ECU and other modules... likely why your stutter got better and then the problem recurred... because the car found a way around your changes to accommodate a parameter left unchanged in the complete tune (i.e. that was not changed with the "global" changes you made).
Ultimately, it appears to me that those kind of changes are designed to let you try something out... and then have your professional tuner make the changes so they "stick".
As tempting as it is, messing with the global modifiers just seemed like a bad idea, LOL....
Torrie needs an e-tip jar.
Seriously, the level of service he provides just make me want to give him money.
No e-tips, just fiery drinks ;)
Quote from: Brucelinc on March 21, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
How much is the stock pressure? Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?
I didn't ask what the pressure was at, just that the shudder goes away and they got it. It's better than stock for sure though. I got my smile back after 3 days of driving around stock.
Quote from: donky4444 on March 21, 2015, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: Brucelinc on March 21, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
How much is the stock pressure? Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?
I didn't ask what the pressure was at, just that the shudder goes away and they got it. It's better than stock for sure though. I got my smile back after 3 days of driving around stock.
They may not tell you even if u ask...proprietary lol....kinda like they did in the other thread when someone asked what their fan temp was and lms replied with "pretty close to that" or something along the lines of vague lol.....or they may just tell you just to spite me lol
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 21, 2015, 10:13:26 AM
Yeah pretty sure it's psi...I'll look at the units when I get home....wasinger I hate the global modifiers that u can do on the device..I'm not really sure how they are applied to the tune..personally I prefer to change the values in the actual tables but u would need the software and the tune in mtf format which most tuners won't give u anyway..so in ur case ur doing what u can...it's really not cost effective to have the software and pay a tuner for the mtf,assuming he will even give it to u, unless u enjoy tinkering and learning to tune...much cheaper to just buy a tune from lms or torrie
Hopefully Torrie can get mine to stick then. I just did what I could to save Torrie from the extra work.
Since the first few shifts after the reflash are perfect it's just a matter of finding out what that sweet spot is.
Quote from: BiGMaC on March 21, 2015, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on March 21, 2015, 10:06:09 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo on March 21, 2015, 09:42:32 AM
Quote from: Brucelinc on March 21, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
How much is the stock pressure? Don, did LME set your 1-2 shift pressure to the stock setting or something higher?
Stock is about 150-175 I'll look when I get home I can't remember exactly...it doesn't take a lot to make a noticeable difference...the pressure smoothly increases with the amount of torque commanded and with rpm...so at wot and at 6500 rpm in the table is where the values are highest.
And all the tables for each gear is different...the 2-3 part throttle pressures are way higher than the other gears at part throttle..not sure why ford did that so I lowered mine to what the other gears are and it shifts smoothly after a reflash so the adaptive doesn't have much to learn...also it seems that the higher gears can tolerate more pressure at wot than the 1-2 shift...don't ask me why
I wish I know what it was at now and what the number actually represents. Is it 200 psi? Or just some kind of reresentarive number... I used my x4 to lower it by 25% of what I don't know... it's better still but for some reason after 4 or 5 wot runs the car goes back to the shudder shift. Like it enjoys being stupid...
I asked Torrie to change the shift pressure last night at 2am and I woke up to a new tune haha. Love that service!
So I'll see how it does now.
Hope this tune works to stop your problem...
The problem ajp points out is also complicated by the learning nature of the ECU and other modules... likely why your stutter got better and then the problem recurred... because the car found a way around your changes to accommodate a parameter left unchanged in the complete tune (i.e. that was not changed with the "global" changes you made).
Ultimately, it appears to me that those kind of changes are designed to let you try something out... and then have your professional tuner make the changes so they "stick".
It feels just like that. The car finds a way to revert back to the way it wants to operate. Which is great for somethings... just not this.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 21, 2015, 11:18:29 AM
As tempting as it is, messing with the global modifiers just seemed like a bad idea, LOL....
Torrie needs an e-tip jar.
Seriously, the level of service he provides just make me want to give him money.
Hah. I've offered to pay him more money for all the work but he won't accept it. :/
This shudder anomaly seems sporadic and inconsistent. When I first got LME's 4X tune last year, the 1-2 shift was pretty gnarly but after some miles and the adaptive learning process, it smoothed out. Recently, it reared it's ugly head again - but not all the time. I am not sure what causes the inconsistency - unless it is related to long periods of gentle driving (as we might have in winter weather) followed by some very aggressive WOT runs when the weather clears.
In any case, I had LME adjust the pressure down and it is now very smooth. I will have to see how it does over a longer period of time.
Quote from: Brucelinc on March 21, 2015, 01:02:37 PM
This shudder anomaly seems sporadic and inconsistent. When I first got LME's 4X tune last year, the 1-2 shift was pretty gnarly but after some miles and the adaptive learning process, it smoothed out. Recently, it reared it's ugly head again - but not all the time. I am not sure what causes the inconsistency - unless it is related to long periods of gentle driving (as we might have in winter weather) followed by some very aggressive WOT runs when the weather clears.
In any case, I had LME adjust the pressure down and it is now very smooth. I will have to see how it does over a longer period of time.
Did this resolve your issue? I have the EXACT same problem with the 4X tune... no other tune does this.. I have also received a bit of push back from LMS stating that there are 100's of cars running the 4+x without an issue. I emailed LMS again, asking them to dial back the shift pressure as it seems to have resolved this problem for other users. Still waiting on a response...
I have a hard time with it being sporadic... you sit in the pit waiting awhile for your run, just for this little hiccup to hit while going down the track...
My Flex CONSISTENTLY does this on a WOT. I have always attributed this to wheel hop/spin and never had a clue that it could be a transmission shudder from line pressure. I was convinced it was my tires breaking loose and wreaking havoc on the driveline. Its like my dash is shaking apart when the 1-2 shift happens and it scares the crap out of me that I'm going to break something. I'm going to reach out to Torrie to see if he can revise my tune to account for the shudder. Thank goodness Steal Blue revived this dead thread!!
There is more to it than shift pressures....thats only half of it
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 23, 2017, 01:09:35 PM
There is more to it than shift pressures....thats only half of it
Alright Eco-Wan Kenobi... help enlighten me? Rumor has it, its shift pressure, you yourself posted that in this thread earlier...
Quote from: StealBlueSho on February 23, 2017, 02:05:41 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 23, 2017, 01:09:35 PM
There is more to it than shift pressures....thats only half of it
Alright Eco-Wan Kenobi... help enlighten me? Rumor has it, its shift pressure, you yourself posted that in this thread earlier...
I did along the way yes....but things have changed...this i will keep for the time being
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 23, 2017, 02:18:16 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on February 23, 2017, 02:05:41 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 23, 2017, 01:09:35 PM
There is more to it than shift pressures....thats only half of it
Alright Eco-Wan Kenobi... help enlighten me? Rumor has it, its shift pressure, you yourself posted that in this thread earlier...
I did along the way yes....but things have changed...this i will keep for the time being
Well, crap. That doesn't help me till I can afford to pay you for your Jedi-tuning skills...
I am just assuming he already has all the transmission stuff taken care of in the tunes he provided to me...
Interesting response from LMS....
Basically, they were aware of the transmission stuttering issue in the past and made corrections to the tunes... and re-released the "4+X" as the "4+x race" tune with needed adjustments...
Funny, when I flash the 4+x tune, there is no issues, once the transmission "learns", I start having issues.... Anthony didn't really have a response for that...
He mentioned that since they have never made any adjustments for my strategy and have not written a softer shifting 4+x for my strategy, they are going to have to rewrite the whole thing....
Any how.... fun fun... not sure about my strategy but it continues to give tuners headaches....
I just don't understand why it would only start stuttering after the transmission does its adaptives... it shifts harder while its learning without an issue ...
Stealblue, when was the last time you changed your transmission fluid?
When I first experienced the 1-2 shift shudder a couple of years ago, I asked for and received a tune with less trans hydraulic pressure. That solved the problem but I missed the shift firmness. I was also puzzled as to why it was great for 15,000 miles or so with the higher pressure and then began the shudder all of a sudden. I changed my trans fluid and put the original tune back in. The shudder was gone and the shift firmness was back like I liked it.
Since then, I have changed the fluid annually and never had another shudder - including multiple back-to-back runs at the track.
Was it the fresh fluid that solved the issue or was it just a freaky fluke? Maybe just reflashing the tune somehow "fixed" it? I really have no idea.
Quote from: Brucelinc on February 25, 2017, 10:18:04 AM
Stealblue, when was the last time you changed your transmission fluid?
When I first experienced the 1-2 shift shudder a couple of years ago, I asked for and received a tune with less trans hydraulic pressure. That solved the problem but I missed the shift firmness. I was also puzzled as to why it was great for 15,000 miles or so with the higher pressure and then began the shudder all of a sudden. I changed my trans fluid and put the original tune back in. The shudder was gone and the shift firmness was back like I liked it.
Since then, I have changed the fluid annually and never had another shudder - including multiple back-to-back runs at the track.
Was it the fresh fluid that solved the issue or was it just a freaky fluke? Maybe just reflashing the tune somehow "fixed" it? I really have no idea.
Good question, I had all the fluids (PTU, Transmission, RDU, and Motor) changed/flushed 3K miles ago.
I just got back from the shop this morning to verify they used to correct TYPE of fluids, which they did. The only concern I have is they used Cam2 full synthetic performance fluids for the tranny and RDU, which is obviously not Motorcraft, I specifically asked for OEM fluids...they informed me that they used OEM equivalent!
I have been using this shop for a long time, the master mechanic is one of my best friends... they got a new manager which I think screwed me? Dunno... not a fan of word smithing to get what you want or imply something that it's not..
http://www.cam2.com/products/Automatic-Transmission-Fluid/CAM2-Dexron-VI-Multi-Vehicle-Full-Synthetic-ATF.html
Googling seems to say it's good stuff..
Even so, I can't image fluid breaking down that bad in 3K miles...
I am tempted to do a drain and fill with motorcraft... although I doubt that will change much..
I have various tunes from LMS, AJP, and Torrie...
The ONLY tune that causes the stutter is the 4+X.... and it's not right away... once the transmission does it's adaptives does it happen... I reflash.... goes away for awhile...
Stealblue i thought the trans used low viscosity fuel efficient atf? That cam2 fluid looks to be regular?
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 25, 2017, 01:18:32 PM
Stealblue i thought the trans used low viscosity fuel efficient atf? That cam2 fluid looks to be regular?
Looking it up, but he product sheet says it's designed for cars that take Mercon LV... along with other low viscosity atf fluid...
http://www.cam2.com/images/product_files/7907.pdf
You get my email about the E20 tunes?
I have no issues getting them to do a fluid swap with Mercon LV if the Cam2 is not OE...
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 25, 2017, 01:18:32 PM
Stealblue i thought the trans used low viscosity fuel efficient atf? That cam2 fluid looks to be regular?
Website claims its low viscosity....
http://www.cam2.com/images/product_files/2691.pdf
Mercon LV Data Sheet -> https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/Product%20Data%20Sheet%20MERCON%20LV.pdf
Cam2 Dextron-VI Full synthetic LV Data Sheet -> http://www.cam2.com/images/product_files/7907.pdf
They are within .5% of each other's viscosity ratings...
The only difference would be additives at this point...
Ah ok, it's probably good stuff then...I'm just used to the LV fluids showing that on the bottle face....Either LV or fuel efficient. But I see the specs where it says Mercon LV
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 25, 2017, 01:57:52 PM
Ah ok, it's probably good stuff then...I'm just used to the LV fluids showing that on the bottle face....Either LV or fuel efficient. But I see the specs where it says Mercon LV
Dunno if it's good or not... but I doubt the fluid is my issue...I suspect tune related...
Might also be a TSS/OSS sensor issue if new fluid has not helped resolve. Just a thought.
Update: it's been several days since I told Anthony at LMS what was going on...
Got an email yesterday confirming again that the sputtering happens only with the 4+X tune AFTER the transmisson learns the new parameters...
Still no new adjusted tune... Apparently my strategy is not exactly a copy and paste...
Shocked!!!!!! LOL...
Quote from: StealBlueSho on February 28, 2017, 10:47:36 AM
Update: it's been several days since I told Anthony at LMS what was going on...
Got an email yesterday confirming again that the sputtering happens only with the 4+X tune AFTER the transmisson learns the new parameters...
Still no new adjusted tune... Apparently my strategy is not exactly a copy and paste...
Shocked!!!!!! LOL...
The HORROR...One size fits all they say....mmmhm
My transmission misses shifts constantly, not only 1-2. Has happened in pretty much every gear, very intermittent.
Quote from: derfdog15 on February 28, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on February 28, 2017, 10:47:36 AM
Update: it's been several days since I told Anthony at LMS what was going on...
Got an email yesterday confirming again that the sputtering happens only with the 4+X tune AFTER the transmisson learns the new parameters...
Still no new adjusted tune... Apparently my strategy is not exactly a copy and paste...
Shocked!!!!!! LOL...
The HORROR...One size fits all they say....mmmhm
Honestly, for 95% of the SHOs out there, their tunes work just fine. So in reality it's just that small percentage that don't, the odds are in their favor.
I'm not bashingLMS, just making an observation, and hoping that if someone else has issues, these threads can help!
My car has been anything but a copy and paste for ANY tuner that has worked on it. The only tuner thus far that has taken the time to dig through it, make adjustments outside the norm, and help me understand what is going on is Brad.
Granted, now that I am keeping the car, I will run with Brads E20 tune (which my car had different preset in the tables than any other 2010 he had worked on)however, I paid LMS for a tune, and expect them to provide a working tune.
That said, Anthony has been great to work with at LMS, and with their reputation along with Brad letting me know that my car is an oddity, I don't mind LMS taking the time to double check and make adjustments to my tune.
I found that faulty MAF sensors can affect shift points, might be the case with the MAPs as well. A good cleaning/replacement would be worth the time.
Quote from: SHOdded on February 28, 2017, 11:19:15 AM
I found that faulty MAF sensors can affect shift points, might be the case with the MAPs as well. A good cleaning/replacement would be worth the time.
For me, no issue on stock tune. Something just has to be different with strategy/hardware combo that doesn't work as expected with the LMS tune. A custom tune can massage those anomalies away whether it be LMS or any other tuner.
Update... LMS FINALLY got me an updated tune... Anthony said my 4+X tune was already modified for the issue they were experiencing before. However, they did modify the 4+x tune to soften the shift, however, the modification is such that I will not or should not notice a difference...
ANYWAY... I haven't tested it.. I am in the middle of dialing in an E20 tune with AJP... I will update once I get time to test...
Update for my issue as well, seems like traction control is the culprit even at WOT on the 3rd gear to 4th gear shift.
Quote from: polskifacet on March 06, 2017, 12:19:37 AM
Update for my issue as well, seems like traction control is the culprit even at WOT on the 3rd gear to 4th gear shift.
Really?! How did you verify this? Seems an odd place for traction control to kick in..
1-2nd I can understand, MAYBR 2-3 if you are in a turn or something... 3-4th? Nah...
I will caveat this with I have seen/read the electronics in these cars do strange things...
Quote from: StealBlueSho on March 06, 2017, 06:38:00 AM
Quote from: polskifacet on March 06, 2017, 12:19:37 AM
Update for my issue as well, seems like traction control is the culprit even at WOT on the 3rd gear to 4th gear shift.
Really?! How did you verify this? Seems an odd place for traction control to kick in..
1-2nd I can understand, MAYBR 2-3 if you are in a turn or something... 3-4th? Nah...
I will caveat this with I have seen/read the electronics in these cars do strange things...
Due Tell,elaborate. Z :hmmm:
Quote from: ZSHO on March 06, 2017, 07:09:18 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on March 06, 2017, 06:38:00 AM
Quote from: polskifacet on March 06, 2017, 12:19:37 AM
Update for my issue as well, seems like traction control is the culprit even at WOT on the 3rd gear to 4th gear shift.
Really?! How did you verify this? Seems an odd place for traction control to kick in..
1-2nd I can understand, MAYBR 2-3 if you are in a turn or something... 3-4th? Nah...
I will caveat this with I have seen/read the electronics in these cars do strange things...
Due Tell,elaborate. Z :hmmm:
Are you asking me Z?
Quote from: StealBlueSho on March 06, 2017, 07:10:33 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on March 06, 2017, 07:09:18 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on March 06, 2017, 06:38:00 AM
Quote from: polskifacet on March 06, 2017, 12:19:37 AM
Update for my issue as well, seems like traction control is the culprit even at WOT on the 3rd gear to 4th gear shift.
Really?! How did you verify this? Seems an odd place for traction control to kick in..
1-2nd I can understand, MAYBR 2-3 if you are in a turn or something... 3-4th? Nah...
I will caveat this with I have seen/read the electronics in these cars do strange things...
Due Tell,elaborate. Z :hmmm:
Are you asking me Z?
@Polski. Z
I had a bit of road to test this. 3 out of 3 with traction on, it would try to do the 3rd to 4th switch, kind of pause for a half a second, blow off some boost and then shift and proceeded to haul ass. 3 out of 3 with traction off, shifts normally. Only other "difference" I can think of is I have 18" winter wheels on but since they are all the same wheels and tires, should be fine.
Are they close in OD to the stock?..
No an inch smaller od. spedo is ~5 mph over actual
Quote from: polskifacet on March 06, 2017, 11:45:51 AM
No an inch smaller od. spedo is ~5 mph over actual
I dont know for fact...but an inch is alot in my book...i try to stay within.25" when switching tires without a tune change....the speed sensors will be reporting something different than what the ecu is expecting for gear and rpm so i could see it messing with stability control
Easy enough to address in the tune. At least the tires are all the same size.
Eventually once I get LMS to schedule an appointment for me, I'll ask them to provide a winter tune to account for tire size and we will know for sure. Annoying it bugs out, should be better code.