Looking at part numbers and various things ive discovered the GM 6T75 and the ford 6F55 are almost the same transmission codeveloped by GM/FORD. So.... the question, since the 6T80(mildly upgraded 6T75) and haldex PTU in the XTS-Vsport are rated by GM to take more HP/TQ than the ford setup, could we use the GM parts (IDK if it will just bolt in) but looking at tranny internals and what not it seems we could at minimum rebuild the 6F55 with 6T80 internals without issue. And if the PTU is better maybe it would be close to a direct swap or mild machining involved to use it.
Not that we really need it as noone has really broken the system yet, but some of us are aiming for higher and higher hp/tq eventually we will see the threshold limit on these components and something even slightly more robust may be of value.
Quote from: Txstrmhntr on April 04, 2015, 05:42:37 PM
Looking at part numbers and various things ive discovered the GM 6T75 and the ford 6F55 are almost the same transmission codeveloped by GM/FORD. So.... the question, since the 6T80(mildly upgraded 6T75) and haldex PTU in the XTS-Vsport are rated by GM to take more HP/TQ than the ford setup, could we use the GM parts (IDK if it will just bolt in) but looking at tranny internals and what not it seems we could at minimum rebuild the 6F55 with 6T80 internals without issue. And if the PTU is better maybe it would be close to a direct swap or mild machining involved to use it.
Not that we really need it as noone has really broken the system yet, but some of us are aiming for higher and higher hp/tq eventually we will see the threshold limit on these components and something even slightly more robust may be of value.
Definitely worth looking into... I have spoken with Dan Millen and he feels that about 450WHP is the limit for avoiding excessive chances of tranny/PTU premature failure... Although Mike has been above 500WHP for some time w/o problems so far.
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 04, 2015, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: Txstrmhntr on April 04, 2015, 05:42:37 PM
Looking at part numbers and various things ive discovered the GM 6T75 and the ford 6F55 are almost the same transmission codeveloped by GM/FORD. So.... the question, since the 6T80(mildly upgraded 6T75) and haldex PTU in the XTS-Vsport are rated by GM to take more HP/TQ than the ford setup, could we use the GM parts (IDK if it will just bolt in) but looking at tranny internals and what not it seems we could at minimum rebuild the 6F55 with 6T80 internals without issue. And if the PTU is better maybe it would be close to a direct swap or mild machining involved to use it.
Not that we really need it as noone has really broken the system yet, but some of us are aiming for higher and higher hp/tq eventually we will see the threshold limit on these components and something even slightly more robust may be of value.
Definitely worth looking into... I have spoken with Dan Millen and he feels that about 450WHP is the limit for avoiding excessive chances of tranny/PTU premature failure... Although Mike has been above 500WHP for some time w/o problems so far.
So 600 at the crank......
I feel like that will get me as far as I want to go with this car.
Of course that is subject to change but since this will most likely end up being High Command's car when I move into the next gen, there's only so far I'm willing to go.
That being said, I would like to get to the 11 sec club before it's all said and done...
Great idea from TXSTRM though.
Anybody modifying the GM tranny in the aftermarket world?
Ok ive looked a little deeper from what ive found now the GM tran and Ford Trans are 100% identical down to the case molding, only difference is FoMoCo uses there own solenoids, and the final gear ratios are different than the GM cars, but its 100% mechanically the same. in other words you could bolt a 6T80 Gm trans straight up to a 3.5L ecoboost and only thing youd have to change are the shift solenoids.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on April 04, 2015, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 04, 2015, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: Txstrmhntr on April 04, 2015, 05:42:37 PM
Looking at part numbers and various things ive discovered the GM 6T75 and the ford 6F55 are almost the same transmission codeveloped by GM/FORD. So.... the question, since the 6T80(mildly upgraded 6T75) and haldex PTU in the XTS-Vsport are rated by GM to take more HP/TQ than the ford setup, could we use the GM parts (IDK if it will just bolt in) but looking at tranny internals and what not it seems we could at minimum rebuild the 6F55 with 6T80 internals without issue. And if the PTU is better maybe it would be close to a direct swap or mild machining involved to use it.
Not that we really need it as noone has really broken the system yet, but some of us are aiming for higher and higher hp/tq eventually we will see the threshold limit on these components and something even slightly more robust may be of value.
Definitely worth looking into... I have spoken with Dan Millen and he feels that about 450WHP is the limit for avoiding excessive chances of tranny/PTU premature failure... Although Mike has been above 500WHP for some time w/o problems so far.
So 600 at the crank......
I feel like that will get me as far as I want to go with this car.
Of course that is subject to change but since this will most likely end up being High Command's car when I move into the next gen, there's only so far I'm willing to go.
That being said, I would like to get to the 11 sec club before it's all said and done...
Great idea from TXSTRM though.
Anybody modifying the GM tranny in the aftermarket world?
Why not have a DD tune and a hotter race tune to get that 11.xx sec time!
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 04, 2015, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on April 04, 2015, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on April 04, 2015, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: Txstrmhntr on April 04, 2015, 05:42:37 PM
Looking at part numbers and various things ive discovered the GM 6T75 and the ford 6F55 are almost the same transmission codeveloped by GM/FORD. So.... the question, since the 6T80(mildly upgraded 6T75) and haldex PTU in the XTS-Vsport are rated by GM to take more HP/TQ than the ford setup, could we use the GM parts (IDK if it will just bolt in) but looking at tranny internals and what not it seems we could at minimum rebuild the 6F55 with 6T80 internals without issue. And if the PTU is better maybe it would be close to a direct swap or mild machining involved to use it.
Not that we really need it as noone has really broken the system yet, but some of us are aiming for higher and higher hp/tq eventually we will see the threshold limit on these components and something even slightly more robust may be of value.
Definitely worth looking into... I have spoken with Dan Millen and he feels that about 450WHP is the limit for avoiding excessive chances of tranny/PTU premature failure... Although Mike has been above 500WHP for some time w/o problems so far.
So 600 at the crank......
I feel like that will get me as far as I want to go with this car.
Of course that is subject to change but since this will most likely end up being High Command's car when I move into the next gen, there's only so far I'm willing to go.
That being said, I would like to get to the 11 sec club before it's all said and done...
Great idea from TXSTRM though.
Anybody modifying the GM tranny in the aftermarket world?
Why not have a DD tune and a hotter race tune to get that 11.xx sec time!
So what you are implying here is one tune for me, another for High Command.
Methinks she might find that offensive, LOL...
Following
Rich
https://youtu.be/Tbs9TeS6Qxo
Rich
Interesting find. See the Quattro system also on the sidebar. Looks like a space station or satellite coming together :)
Great info and interesting read! Thanks
Been a few months since I read it but certain GM versions of this tranny have an even more aggressive final drive. I'm thinking like 3.27 or something....I was thinking it would be a fairly easy swap and just a matter of changing the part and tune adjustments for gearing....Easy if you do tranny work but bolt in nonetheless.....I'd like to know for sure though
There's a couple long discussions going on about this on "ecoboosted" Facebook page.
Rich
I work with one of the engineers who was on the Ford/GM team. They are basically identical but as mentioned. Programming and ratios are different. They are strong transmissions. He did share one little tidbit I found interesting. The HD versions had to add more exterior ribbing on the transmission housing reinforce it. Apparently the case "grows" quite a bit under load due to the hydraulic pressure and load.
Quote from: 13-SHO on April 08, 2015, 10:12:25 AM
I work with one of the engineers who was on the Ford/GM team. They are basically identical but as mentioned. Programming and ratios are different. They are strong transmissions. He did share one little tidbit I found interesting. The HD versions had to add more exterior ribbing on the transmission housing reinforce it. Apparently the case "grows" quite a bit under load due to the hydraulic pressure and load.
lol ask him if the new GM trans is stronger than the 6f55
Quote from: Txstrmhntr on April 08, 2015, 10:38:54 AM
Quote from: 13-SHO on April 08, 2015, 10:12:25 AM
I work with one of the engineers who was on the Ford/GM team. They are basically identical but as mentioned. Programming and ratios are different. They are strong transmissions. He did share one little tidbit I found interesting. The HD versions had to add more exterior ribbing on the transmission housing reinforce it. Apparently the case "grows" quite a bit under load due to the hydraulic pressure and load.
You won't like his answer lol. He works for GM so he might be biased
lol ask him if the new GM trans is stronger than the 6f55
Does this mean we can use Dexron VI in the 6F55?
Quote from: metroplex on August 01, 2016, 04:45:29 AM
Does this mean we can use Dexron VI in the 6F55?
I'm pretty sure the 6F55 requires motorcraft LV
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160801/00a7423a49484c36bd19df38ac2725fc.png)
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Valvoline's MaxLife ATF is both Dexron VI and Mercon LV compatible. BUT it is not OEM licensed, and any recourse would be through Valvoline directly.
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf (http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf)
Castrol's TransMax DexVI MercLV product appears to be licensed for both specs, so that may be a better go to:
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/6012D45D5B60026F80257C40000798C9/ (http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/6012D45D5B60026F80257C40000798C9/)$File/Transmax%20DEXRON%20VI%20MERCON%20LV_468179_2013_12.pdf
I prefer to do my trans fluid every 30k with only Motorcraft mercon LV. Z [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUBoXyQ7UDQ#]! No longer available] (http://[/url)! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUBoXyQ7UDQ#) [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMoTqPBIyGw#]! No longer available] (http://[/url)! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMoTqPBIyGw#) Definitely like to add Amsoil or Redline to the mix for the PTU,RDU. Z
That's what I figured, if the 6T80 and 6F55 are identical, and GM specifies Dex VI while Ford specifies Mercon LV, both fluids must be very similar.
Similar doesn't mean identical. So if you choose to use a Dexron VI fluid, it must also clearly be spec'd for Mercon LV.
Quote from: Txstrmhntr on April 04, 2015, 10:04:29 PM
Ok ive looked a little deeper from what ive found now the GM tran and Ford Trans are 100% identical down to the case molding, only difference is FoMoCo uses there own solenoids, and the final gear ratios are different than the GM cars, but its 100% mechanically the same. in other words you could bolt a 6T80 Gm trans straight up to a 3.5L ecoboost and only thing youd have to change are the shift solenoids.
Unless the solenoids themselves really absolutely need Dexron VI or Mercon LV...
Since solenoids are at the heart of the transmission, yeah, I would refrain from experimenting unless I had the funds and were willing to swap/rebuild. Shouldn't happen quickly logically, but logic is based on known constraints. Who knows the trans may even like it ...
Have been wondering if anyone has looked into this any further. Know I need a new trans shortly wondering if I bought a new 6t80 trans how difficult would the swap be. Hope to see this done eventually if the 6t80 is improved over the 6f55 in any notable way?
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Quote from: Cole.C on July 22, 2018, 09:20:04 PM
Have been wondering if anyone has looked into this any further. Know I need a new trans shortly wondering if I bought a new 6t80 trans how difficult would the swap be. Hope to see this done eventually if the 6t80 is improved over the 6f55 in any notable way?
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+1....subbd
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Quote from: AJP turbo on April 06, 2015, 10:39:08 PM
Been a few months since I read it but certain GM versions of this tranny have an even more aggressive final drive. I'm thinking like 3.27 or something....I was thinking it would be a fairly easy swap and just a matter of changing the part and tune adjustments for gearing....Easy if you do tranny work but bolt in nonetheless.....I'd like to know for sure though
https://www.sourceoneautoparts.com/24265608-6t80-transmission-6-speed-automatic-2014-16-cadillac-xts-vsport.html
Found these 6t80 trans at a decent price it says it's final gear drive is 3:16 which is the same as the 6f55 used in the police interceptor sedans which is what I'd be doing the swap in. If it did bolt right up with no issues and the wiring harnesses look the same but never know could be ever so slightly different but hoping not. Would the car require a custom tune to be driven or if the final gear ratio is the same and ends up being easy as a OEM install would it be safe to drive the car atleast on a trailer to get it home to be messed if even nescessary?
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Quote from: Cole.C on July 23, 2018, 09:16:28 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 06, 2015, 10:39:08 PM
Been a few months since I read it but certain GM versions of this tranny have an even more aggressive final drive. I'm thinking like 3.27 or something....I was thinking it would be a fairly easy swap and just a matter of changing the part and tune adjustments for gearing....Easy if you do tranny work but bolt in nonetheless.....I'd like to know for sure though
https://www.sourceoneautoparts.com/24265608-6t80-transmission-6-speed-automatic-2014-16-cadillac-xts-vsport.html
Found these 6t80 trans at a decent price it says it's final gear drive is 3:16 which is the same as the 6f55 used in the police interceptor sedans which is what I'd be doing the swap in. If it did bolt right up with no issues and the wiring harnesses look the same but never know could be ever so slightly different but hoping not. Would the car require a custom tune to be driven or if the final gear ratio is the same and ends up being easy as a OEM install would it be safe to drive the car atleast on a trailer to get it home to be messed if even nescessary?
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Umm...that's a Cadillac (GM) trans.
I HIGHLY doubt it will bolt up.
Nor will the wiring harness match.
Quote from: glock-coma on July 23, 2018, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Cole.C on July 23, 2018, 09:16:28 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 06, 2015, 10:39:08 PM
Been a few months since I read it but certain GM versions of this tranny have an even more aggressive final drive. I'm thinking like 3.27 or something....I was thinking it would be a fairly easy swap and just a matter of changing the part and tune adjustments for gearing....Easy if you do tranny work but bolt in nonetheless.....I'd like to know for sure though
https://www.sourceoneautoparts.com/24265608-6t80-transmission-6-speed-automatic-2014-16-cadillac-xts-vsport.html
Found these 6t80 trans at a decent price it says it's final gear drive is 3:16 which is the same as the 6f55 used in the police interceptor sedans which is what I'd be doing the swap in. If it did bolt right up with no issues and the wiring harnesses look the same but never know could be ever so slightly different but hoping not. Would the car require a custom tune to be driven or if the final gear ratio is the same and ends up being easy as a OEM install would it be safe to drive the car atleast on a trailer to get it home to be messed if even nescessary?
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Umm...that's a Cadillac (GM) trans.
I HIGHLY doubt it will bolt up.
Nor will the wiring harness match.
The cases look the same, bolt pattern looks the same as well as harness.. I'd have to order it and try to have it bolted up. set side by side you'd barely be able to tell the difference besides the 6t80's added case ribbing compared to the 6f55. but yes thanks I'm trying to buy and install a GM trans... even if I do have to have an adapter made or go through some weird pains I was quoted for the new 6f55 supposedly "at cost" for 1799 warrantied from the local stealership that loves to lie. I can get the 6t80 for 1299. Still could get an adapter made and a ever so slightly improved trans for less than the cost of the new trans Ford quoted me at..
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Quote from: Cole.C on July 23, 2018, 09:16:28 AMFound these 6t80 trans at a decent price it says it's final gear drive is 3:16 which is the same as the 6f55 used in the police interceptor sedans which is what I'd be doing the swap in.
PI sedans have the 3.39 axle.
PI utilities have the 3.65 axle.
You listed they have the 3.16
Just FYI.
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 23, 2018, 08:07:23 PM
Quote from: Cole.C on July 23, 2018, 09:16:28 AMFound these 6t80 trans at a decent price it says it's final gear drive is 3:16 which is the same as the 6f55 used in the police interceptor sedans which is what I'd be doing the swap in.
PI sedans have the 3.39 axle.
PI utilities have the 3.65 axle.
You listed they have the 3.16
Just FYI.
My bad! I must of gotten my info from a bad source. Pdf I downloaded with various police Dept. Vehicles showed 3:16 shows the 3:39 in the 3.7l? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180724/5107587d086391ad8015b51e77626f65.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180724/ca87617c3ba7c11e62977e3d74aa4409.jpg)
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The 3.5 FWD only version (earlier model years) employs the 3.16 axle.
AWD is now standard on all PI's. So the 3.16 is no longer available.
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 23, 2018, 08:51:05 PM
The 3.5 FWD only version (earlier model years) employs the 3.16 axle.
AWD is now standard on all PI's. So the 3.16 is no longer available.
Thanks, that I did not know. Dang so how much would it complicate things trying to swap a trans with different final gear ratio? Probably a very dumb question but Is that something that can be fixed with a tune or just completely rules out compatability >.<? Appreciate the info!
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I'm not sure on the answer on that (as far as ruling it out, compatability, etc.).
Perhaps another forum member can jump in on that.
Just so your all tracking, the 6T80 is basically the same transmission. I had read this a few years ago but it took me a couple of days to find the article. The 6T/6F was jointly developed by ford and GM to save money there is no advantage to the 6T80. See Below from wikivisually...
https://wikivisually.com/wiki/GM-Ford_6-speed_automatic_transmission (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/GM-Ford_6-speed_automatic_transmission)
GM-Ford 6-speed automatic transmission [show article only]
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [show wikipedia page here]
6T/6F
Overview
Manufacturer General Motors/Ford
Production 2006–
Body and chassis
Class 6-speed transverse automatic transmission
Chronology
Predecessor 4T60-E/4T65-E
4T80-E
AX4N
General Motors and Ford Motor Company cooperated in 2002 to create a new automatic transaxle, designed for transverse engine applications in cars. The companies jointly committed to investing US$720 million in their manufacturing plants to support the new transmission.
Each company will name and manufacture the transmission separately:
Ford builds the 6F50 and 6F55 along with the 6F35 (related to the GM 6T40 transmission) at their Van Dyke Transmission Plant in Sterling Heights, Michigan, and in the future at Sharonville Transmission in Sharonville, Ohio.
GM builds the 6T70, 6T75 and 6T80 at Warren Transmission in Warren, Michigan with production starting in July, 2006.[1]
Ford claims the 6F50 is designed to handle 300 hp (224 kW) and 280 ft·lbf (380 N·m), while General Motors rates their 6T70 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 280 lb⋅ft (380 N⋅m), the 6T75 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 300 lb⋅ft (407 N⋅m), and the 6T80 to 410 hp (306 kW) and 369 lb⋅ft (500 N⋅m). GM lists the wet (with fluids) weight of the 6T70/75/80 to be between 102 kg (225 lb) and 104.7 kg (231 lb).
Ford appears not to have made a public statement regarding the 6F55's maximum capabilities, but uses it in AWD in the Taurus SHO with an engine rated at 272 kW (370 PS; 365 hp)and 475 N·m (350 lb·ft) of torque (Final drive 2.77:1 standard or 3.16:1 with SHO Performance Package).
The first application of the technology is in the 2007 Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossover SUVs, as well as the Saturn Aura sedan and the Saturn Outlook crossover. It was also used for the Pontiac G6 GTP models and the GMC Acadia models for 2007. Prior to 2009, this transmission had issues caused by a very weak 3,5,R wave plate, which made this transmission prone to failure in GM products. Updated wave plates were released for many clutches in 6T70, the old design wave plates weren't stress relieved and could break with use. The updated wave plates are available under the following part numbers:
https://www.sonnax.com/units/262-6f55 (https://www.sonnax.com/units/262-6f55)
https://www.sonnax.com/units/529-6t80-gen-2#related_tech. (https://www.sonnax.com/units/529-6t80-gen-2#related_tech.)
Wikipedia.....always reliable! lol