So i have less than 800 miles on my new to me 2010 Mks and been taking it pretty easy on her 35k total miles. Yesterday evening the wife and i went to dinner and i had a situation where i had to merge into traffic from a stand still. Soi nail it from a stand still and approach 70mph rather quickly with trans shifting harsh in what i thought was 3rd but not certain. Once the shift occured i got this bad stumble so let off and notice my CEL blinking and car is mis-firing at this point. Wife looks at me and says i broke the car ugh.... so i begin to exit freeway and CEL goes off and everything is normal again wth. Drove it normal since and today and car acting like normal,any ideas ?.
You will have to do a scan with an OBDII tool. If you don't have one AutoZone does it for free. If there are stored codes retrieve those numbers to narrow it down. Someone should be able to help you with that.
Usually it turns out to be a case of tq management, but X2 on what mmh said. Also check out TSBs in the HOWTO section, see if any fit the situation.
NOTE: watch out for broken spark plugs or leaky fuel injectors if the issue recurs.
Definitely check for any codes especially after the check engine light was eminent and DO NOT remove the ground on the battery,there is a TSB but not quite sure its related. Z TSB #SB-21430
NHTSA ID #10034629
Date Announced:
JULY 01 2010
Additional Info:
How to Fix
Summary: FORD/LINCOLN: TRANSMISSION BUILT BEFORE 6/1/10 WITH 4TH GEAR START, DELAY/HESITATION ON ACCELERATION FROM A STOP-NO DTCS. THIS MAY BE CAUSED BY A STICKING MULTIPLEX SHIFT VALVE IN THE VALVE BODY. *PE
Also... Remember that if the CEL flashing you mention means blinking... Turn of the ignition and don't drive the car.... If the CEL was steadily lit while on then you cans start the hunt.
Well tried 2 different places to read any codes that may have been stored and nothing. Both places say nothing was stored. Been driving car still and all is normal so I'm at a loss on what happened...
I tried thinking of the conditions that evening and it was humid than normal and I haven't cleaned the CAC yet. I also had less than 1/4 tank of fuel but other than that nothing outside of the ordinary. I still need to set an appt for the inspection on my ESP so need to baby it till then or even park it.
Fuel injector is my guess as well.
I had this happen in my '13 SHO... I was accelerating hard from a stop with the wheel turned to the left. The car jumped up and then fell flat... Acted like limp mode... Turned her off, restarted, and drove away normally. CEL never came back. My dealer couldn't find anything... Not even one of those codes that are set and will only set a true DTC if it happens too often... That was over a year ago. It has never done that "jump up and drop flat" thing again.... Running like a top!.... Still, you gotta pursue it until all avenues are done.
So it did it again this time though I got a smell of rotten egg once I got home as I was down the street. Light stopped flashing by the time I got home and all was normal again aside from that rotten egg stench...
Bad gas. Don't hear about it (smell) much anymore, but there it is.
So the other day this random or so I thought was random concern started presenting itself again while I was enjoying a joy ride with my brother this past weekend. It did it from launch and even from a low 30 roll and happened to notice my gas was 1/4 full...
So next morning I went and filled up on 93* and mirrored my driving from prior day and what do you know no issue and smooth. Do our tanks have baffles because it seems to be realted to fuel starvation.
Doubt its fuel starvation...these are highly engineered vehicles...im sure they are baffled ...dont think they mention anything in the owners manual about fuel levels and fuel starvation but i could be wrong
I've driven mine to zero miles to empty (and beyond) quite a few times without issue.
I am probably way out there on this one, but here's a thought...
Way back in the day, a buddy of mine had an over sensitive inertial switch on his Mustang. When he would shift hard or launch hard it would cut off the fuel pump for a split second thinking that the car had been in an accident. Took some time to figure that one out, but once we bypassed the inertial switch, problem solved.
Not sure if these cars have an inertia switch or not. Old Fords had them located in the trunk with a button that could reset the switch.
I don't see a mention of a cutoff or iinertia switch after 2009 MY, but there might be one.
QuoteFuel Pump (FP) Shut-off Feature
NOTE: Refer to the Description and Operation, Intelligent Access with Push Button Start in Section 419-01B to review the procedures for achieving the various ignition states (ignition OFF, ignition in ACCESSORY, ignition ON and ignition START) on vehicles with this feature.
In the event of a moderate to severe collision, the vehicle is equipped with a Fuel Pump (FP) shut-off feature that is initiated by the event notification signal.
The event notification signal is a signal provided by the Restraints Control Module (RCM) to the FP control module. Signal communication between the RCM and the FP control module allows the PCM to shut-off the FP .
Should the vehicle shut off after a collision due to this feature, the vehicle may be restarted by first turning the ignition to the OFF position and then turn the ignition to the ON position. In some instances the vehicle may not start the first time and may take one additional ignition cycle.
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2016, 02:32:05 PM
I don't see a mention of a cutoff or iinertia switch after 2009 MY, but there might be one.
QuoteFuel Pump (FP) Shut-off Feature
NOTE: Refer to the Description and Operation, Intelligent Access with Push Button Start in Section 419-01B to review the procedures for achieving the various ignition states (ignition OFF, ignition in ACCESSORY, ignition ON and ignition START) on vehicles with this feature.
In the event of a moderate to severe collision, the vehicle is equipped with a Fuel Pump (FP) shut-off feature that is initiated by the event notification signal.
The event notification signal is a signal provided by the Restraints Control Module (RCM) to the FP control module. Signal communication between the RCM and the FP control module allows the PCM to shut-off the FP .
Should the vehicle shut off after a collision due to this feature, the vehicle may be restarted by first turning the ignition to the OFF position and then turn the ignition to the ON position. In some instances the vehicle may not start the first time and may take one additional ignition cycle.
Interesting! As usual, you are a wealth of information. Sounds like instead of an inertia switch, they now collect the data from the restraint system.
Back to the OP, does it only happen with a passenger? This is probably a crazy idea...Wonder if there's a problem with the passenger side seat belt sensor?
Another thought I have is that the PTU isn't working which is overworking the traction control to the point that it's having to basically stop all power production to stop the wheel spin. That would account for a CEL.
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2016, 02:32:05 PM
I don't see a mention of a cutoff or iinertia switch after 2009 MY, but there might be one.
QuoteFuel Pump (FP) Shut-off Feature
NOTE: Refer to the Description and Operation, Intelligent Access with Push Button Start in Section 419-01B to review the procedures for achieving the various ignition states (ignition OFF, ignition in ACCESSORY, ignition ON and ignition START) on vehicles with this feature.
In the event of a moderate to severe collision, the vehicle is equipped with a Fuel Pump (FP) shut-off feature that is initiated by the event notification signal.
The event notification signal is a signal provided by the Restraints Control Module (RCM) to the FP control module. Signal communication between the RCM and the FP control module allows the PCM to shut-off the FP .
Should the vehicle shut off after a collision due to this feature, the vehicle may be restarted by first turning the ignition to the OFF position and then turn the ignition to the ON position. In some instances the vehicle may not start the first time and may take one additional ignition cycle.
Very interesting ! But if this was occurring id expect my car to shut off and not run in limp mode id assume. Still on the hunt for the issue though as its preventing me from modding further outside of my K&N panel filter.
Sholxgt - It happen either with pass or not. And I seem to be only to replicate when the gas level is 1/4 or lower and when it occurs its for maybe 15 seconds of limp mode CEL flashing then CEl goes off and normalcy is restored again.
Wonder if it's tied somehow to the traction control system? Do you have traction loss or interference from the traction control system prior to the CEL? Thinking that you may be getting a fuel cut by the traction control system that is then leading to some kind of aftermath.
Maybe try a few passes with the traction control turned off and see what happens?
Quote from: sholxgt on June 09, 2016, 09:22:06 AM
Wonder if it's tied somehow to the traction control system? Do you have traction loss or interference from the traction control system prior to the CEL? Thinking that you may be getting a fuel cut by the traction control system that is then leading to some kind of aftermath.
Maybe try a few passes with the traction control turned off and see what happens?
I usually disable traction control anytime I plan on "joy riding" so been off when the issue presents itself.
Quote from: TX MKS-T on June 09, 2016, 10:37:06 AM
Quote from: sholxgt on June 09, 2016, 09:22:06 AM
Wonder if it's tied somehow to the traction control system? Do you have traction loss or interference from the traction control system prior to the CEL? Thinking that you may be getting a fuel cut by the traction control system that is then leading to some kind of aftermath.
Maybe try a few passes with the traction control turned off and see what happens?
I usually disable traction control anytime I plan on "joy riding" so been off when the issue presents itself.
There's really now way to completely turn off the traction control unless yo have the performance package SHO. I don't believe that feature was available on the MKS.
When I go to the track it still kicks in even when "off"
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Also a flashing cel usually means the engine is cutting fuel to save the catalytic converters from damage. So you could have a bad fuel injector.
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Quote from: glock-coma on June 09, 2016, 10:56:51 AM
Also a flashing cel usually means the engine is cutting fuel to save the catalytic converters from damage. So you could have a bad fuel injector.
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Im thinking you got it. I swear everytime I unlock my car after its sits I can hear what sounds like the fuel pump priming in the rear unless this is the norm but to me it sounds exactly like a fuel pump prime.
That is the fuel pump and its normal.
I think the fuel pump priming runs off the dome light activation circuit, which would be the case with unlocking the car.
Darn oh well back to the drawing board !
On a side note my MPG has been a decent 20 mixed city driving since I have been taking it easy on her.
Good mpg :thumb:
I've been battling a similar issue in my wife's 2010 Flex, although ours is MUCH more random. It happens about once a month, maybe longer.
Her's has done it twice rolling up to a red light, once rolling up to the end of our street, and once (my main cause for concern) driving down the interstate on a very windy downhill section. Car will shudder very similar to the F-150 videos I have seen with the condensation issue, CEL will flash and the car has no power. It will do this for about 10-15 second, return to normal, CEL will go away, and stores no codes.
Any buildup in the IC? Have you checked to see if the knock sensor wires may be the source of the problem?
Haven't pulled the piping or IC yet, but yes, there has to be something. I have oil residue on the OUTSIDE of the charge pipe heading to the TB.
I cleaned out my IC when I first bought the car. At 27,000 miles there was already some build up. Not a bunch, but enough to convince me that it needs to be checked every few oil changes and cleaned as needed.
Quote from: sholxgt on August 02, 2016, 03:49:10 PM
I cleaned out my IC when I first bought the car. At 27,000 miles there was already some build up. Not a bunch, but enough to convince me that it needs to be checked every few oil changes and cleaned as needed.
How did you clean it? I was thinking of taking it to a radiator shop and having them dunk it...
Mine has just shy of 100k. At about 60k I got a new shortblock due to a cracked piston, which caused excess blow-by and oil everywhere. I question whether the dealer was smart enough to clean things out when the had my car for months on end waiting on the new block...
Hmm possibly a split pipe, or a leak from the front turbo oil cooler line? Rooting for the split pipe scenario.
Quote from: FaSSt9602 on August 02, 2016, 04:13:40 PM
Quote from: sholxgt on August 02, 2016, 03:49:10 PM
I cleaned out my IC when I first bought the car. At 27,000 miles there was already some build up. Not a bunch, but enough to convince me that it needs to be checked every few oil changes and cleaned as needed.
How did you clean it? I was thinking of taking it to a radiator shop and having them dunk it...
Mine has just shy of 100k. At about 60k I got a new shortblock due to a cracked piston, which caused excess blow-by and oil everywhere. I question whether the dealer was smart enough to clean things out when the had my car for months on end waiting on the new block...
Man...I tried several methods using stuff that I cobbled together out of my garage. First step is to use your dispstick to see if it even needs cleaning. Mine came up with about 1/3" of oil, so it was time to take the next step.
I first tried a brake bleed kit. No go. Needs constant suction. So, I then hooked a junky old vacuum I keep in the basement up to clear tubing with some plumbing parts I had around. Sucked through a brake bleed kit reservoir to keep the oil from entering the vacuum. It worked, but didn't quite get it all. I then took a vacuum T and cut one side completely off, hooked the clear tubing to the bottom port and inserted into the IC. Took my air hose with the blow gun attachment inserted into the cut off end of the T and blew. It created enough of a suction on the clear tube/down portion to blow out the rest. That part was messy. Had wife hold shop rags and I blew the oil onto them.
Before I do it again, I think I'll pick up one of these to try...
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html)
Complete removal and cleaning would of course be the best method, but that looks like a LOT of work.
Quote from: SHOdded on August 02, 2016, 04:14:19 PM
Hmm possibly a split pipe, or a leak from the front turbo oil cooler line? Rooting for the split pipe scenario.
I'll snap some pictures tonight and post them in my thread so I don't bugger this one up any more...
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6279.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6279.0.html)
So today I finally got a code to stick long enough to be captured ! Merging into to traffic I got on her some and it happened as usual tossing her into limp mode and this time the CEL stayed lit after flashing for a few seconds. I always thought a coil pack would completely croak rather than it have sporatic issues. I have a coil pack and PCV on the way now so stay tuned !
Code - P0305 - #5 Misfire
Well new coil installed and light still on...
Guessing i need to move onto possible injector now. I have plugs gapped to .34 since my car is bone stock so guessing it cant be gaps. Is there a DYI on fuel injector replacement here by chance ?
No DIY, but this thread may help:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6357 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6357)
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6357.msg99662.html#msg99662 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6357.msg99662.html#msg99662)
Have just asked him to post videos, let's see!
So as I wait to order the injector I decided to go ahead and clean my MAP sensor having never done this. Im almost doubting the possible injector fault since my car starts easy and no smell of fuel so not sure if this would rule out a bad injector.
So pulled MAP and found it to be covered in oil, not drenched but def had oil on it and what looked to be a piece of an dense oil blob. I cleaned and re-installed reset battery and car is back to getting 20mpg without CEL P0305 mis fire now but still somewhat hesitating under WOT. I want to try and close my plug gap some from its current .034 to .030 perhaps to see if this changes but not sure if its worth the troubles. I now have 40k on the clock so possible the carbon build up on my valves may be ugly. I am trying to rule out everything simple before I dive into the injector replacement...
Well, that is definitely progress! Try cleaning the other MAP sensor as well, it is attached to the tube leading from the intercooler to the throttle body on the throttle body end. If the intake MAP is covered in oil, it's a fair bet this one is as well.
(http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t597/PerfA_ZN0W/2010-up/CX2231%20pic%203a_zps0u2xawmj.jpg) (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/PerfA_ZN0W/media/2010-up/CX2231%20pic%203a_zps0u2xawmj.jpg.html)
So i got around to changing #5 injector today, took me about 2hrs going slowly. Was a tedious job but definitely something the average wrencher can do himself. The injector was pretty bad but even more shocked at the carbon buildup on valves with only 42k on the clock. I may have to open it back up for a valve clean with AMSOil power foam but verdict is still out on whether it fixed my miss as I haven't WOT yet.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/cecilsoto/20161217_135816_zpssczkxqxb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/cecilsoto/media/20161217_135816_zpssczkxqxb.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/cecilsoto/20161217_141313_zps1w4re4qz.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/cecilsoto/media/20161217_141313_zps1w4re4qz.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/cecilsoto/20161217_141324_zpslnpbhfni.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/cecilsoto/media/20161217_141324_zpslnpbhfni.jpg.html)
Can't see the pics :( but hope the miss is fixed!
Pic link updated and I did a couple of WOT hits this morning and it pulls clean like a freight train, feels better than it did when I 1st got it actually. I'm sure the 29* temps were aiding that some but no hiccups and no CEL !
Quote from: TX MKS-T on December 18, 2016, 01:17:06 PM
Pic link updated and I did a couple of WOT hits this morning and it pulls clean like a freight train, feels better than it did when I 1st got it actually. I'm sure the 29* temps were aiding that some but no hiccups and no CEL !
Great news!
The cold sure does help it feel nice, mine pulls hard as hell in below freezing temps, but I don't do it often because it takes so long for the transmission to warm up and I fear spinning haha
Glad you got her running great now.
Really good pics of the valves. How was it removing the intake manifold?
Media blasting the intake valves is on my to do list durning the cold months.
Thanks !
Glock the removal wasnt bad at all, hardest part were the clamps on the heater hoses lol. Next time I should be able to remove the intake in 30mins or so. I was surprised considering how complex under the hood looks.
I researched here for a while to get an idea of what was involved to do this job so figured from what I gathered Id put it here for those who may need to do this at some point.
For those curious how to remove intake:
* Disconnect battery
* Remove lower air dam to get access to radiator drain plug (Driver side)
* Drain Coolant
* Disconnect all sensor plugs attached to intake
* Remove top boost tube
* Remove TB to IC tube
* Remove top portion of air cleaner assembly
* Disconnect both radiator hoses going into intake Driver/Pass side
* Disconnect 2 large heater hoses and 2 smaller hose (Driver side rear)
* Remove 12 intake bolts
* loosen the right main wire harness so you can slide the intake under it
* Give it a good tug to free it and maneuver it out
Removing the injectors in addition to the above:
* 17mm wrench to loosen pump flare nut at pump and 2 at rails
* Use rag to capture fuel that will come out under pressure
* Remove 1 bolt holding HPFP rail to valve cover then remove rail
* Remove the 6 bolts holding each fuel rail on depending on which inj your replacing
* Lightly wiggle till you arms hurt and eventually the rail will come out
* Remove the clip on top of injector, it slides out the side
* The injectors will require you to turn back and fourth while pulling up to free them from head
* Installing Inj requires a dab of oil on top O rings, do not put anything on bottom Teflon seal
* Install into head 1st then gently wiggle fuel rail onto all injectors till the rail seats and re-install everything above
Well organized synopsis!