I just got my car back about three days ago from the dealership after a rather lengthy stay in which they found absolutely nothing wrong with my car. I have left the car running the stock tune. I have been driving it around just in town without a chance to open it up, but something felt a little off. So yesterday I got a chance to really get on it and the car felt incredibly slow. Not to be one to let my butt dyno to define the poor performance, I timed some 0-60 runs and the times ranged from 6.43 to 8.1.
I immediately started to wonder if the vehicle was making any boost and it was confirmed by the Torque app on my phone that it was indeed making boost. Not knowing my ass from elbow with these engines, first thing I decided to do was to make the rear BOV vent to atmosphere. Sure enough that under acceleration from 1/2 throttle to WOT, the entire time that the pedal is pressed, the BOV is dumping what could be all the boost.
Before I head back to the dealership and have them start what will probably be a long troubleshooting session, does anybody have any ideas as to why this is happening?
I'm pretty sure the front and rear blowoff valves are interchangeable.
you can try swapping them and seeing if the problem goes to the front or stays in the rear.
if it stays in the rear somethings telling the blowoff valve to open and it's not a defective valve.
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Just pulled the negative side of the battery post off for a half hour and hoped the car would come out of its funk. No luck to be had though.
This is where you have to test your relationship with your dealer. These Blow off valves are electronic (Which sucks). So you can either tell them you were tinkering and see if they'll go straight to the problem-- or play it safe and lead them to clues like "Feels like boost isn't there, or a leak" You can preface that statement with you long love for turbo charged platforms (true or not)
Be careful though, BoVs are open more often than you'd really think- especially with a MAP car, it doesn't really matter that their closed until their actually building boost AND accelerating. I hear my car dumping air while I'm barely on the throttle constantly.
You really don't run into problems like this with vacuum activated BoVs: but it's a huge project to switch those out (for no real benefit).
Times like these, almost miss that big ass N/A hemi, eh?
Quote from: Jtrain on July 25, 2014, 10:50:57 AM
This is where you have to test your relationship with your dealer. These Blow off valves are electronic (Which sucks). So you can either tell them you were tinkering and see if they'll go straight to the problem-- or play it safe and lead them to clues like "Feels like boost isn't there, or a leak" You can preface that statement with you long love for turbo charged platforms (true or not)
Be careful though, BoVs are open more often than you'd really think- especially with a MAP car, it doesn't really matter that their closed until their actually building boost AND accelerating. I hear my car dumping air while I'm barely on the throttle constantly.
You really don't run into problems like this with vacuum activated BoVs: but it's a huge project to switch those out (for no real benefit).
Times like these, almost miss that big ass N/A hemi, eh?
I previously ran the BOV VTA mod and never heard it open while under acceleration. Never made a peep unless I was getting off the gas.
Just a thought, if they were messing around with the turbos you may have a loose hose clamp on the hot side. It may have nothing to do with the BOV at all.
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Quote from: ShoBoat on July 25, 2014, 11:04:49 AM
Just a thought, if they were messing around with the turbos you may have a loose hose clamp on the hot side. It may have nothing to do with the BOV at all.
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After noticing the lack of power I did the BOV to VTA mod and the boost is definitely being dumped out the BOV. I am going to test the front BOV and see if that is dumping boost as well.
I watch the % open/close blowoff valve occasionally and it is often partially open (or closed). I couldn't hear it either when I was VTA (I'm not anymore) unless it dumped all of the boost. I would expect that dumping some of the air is normal to maintain required pressures. If you had Torque or a laptop with forscan you could look at desired vs. actual boost to see what was going on. I would definitely check the pipes as well...
Exhaust is also completely stock at this moment right? Could too little/too much backpressure be a problem in this case?
The exhaust is a custom catback. The car ran great when I first dropped it off at the dealership and now that I have it back I am running into the issues associated with this thread.
Just take it back and let them know.
It could be a loose hose, I had a loose hose under the drivers side of engine, i would hear boost leak at WOT until it came completely off after a while of driving... it kinda sounded like the blow off valve was stuck open
If you're certain the leak is at the valve, pull it off and look at it. It's likely not serviceable, but you may at least be able to inspect the piston or diaphragm inside. It may have electronic actuation, but it's innards should still be of a traditional, mechanical design.
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So I tested both BOV's my making them VTA and they are both dumping boost under WOT. I can actually make the car excellent rather well by only taking the throttle to about 30-50% and at that point the vehicle will hold boost. I have verified with the Torque that with the stock tune is making 12-13psi of boost. Not exactly sure what is going on, but hopefully someone can weigh in on this.
You need to view the desired boost vs actual boost as well as actual waste gate vs commanded. That's the only way you will know if one of the BOV's is failing. That way you have factual data to compare. Just listening to it won't be enough.
The only simple/quick thing I can think to do is have someone in the car, apply parking brake, put the car in gear, do a standing brake boost to full throttle while you hold your hand by the BOV to see how much boost is being dumped compared to the front bov.
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 11:58:33 AM
You need to view the desired boost vs actual boost as well as actual waste gate vs commanded. That's the only way you will know if one of the BOV's is failing. That way you have factual data to compare. Just listening to it won't be enough.
The only simple/quick thing I can think to do is have someone in the car, apply parking brake, put the car in gear, do a standing brake boost to full throttle while you hold your hand by the BOV to see how much boost is being dumped compared to the front bov.
I set up torque for the first time this morning and did not see any gauges for the option of desired boost, actual boost, actual waste gate and commanded. Is this something that can be monitored?
All I can confirm at this point is that the car never had audible noise from the BOV while VTA while accelerating before I got it back from the dealer. Something has changed since they have had it and I just want to help point them in the right direction once the dealer techs start looking.
Quote from: SRT82ECOBOOST on July 30, 2014, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 11:58:33 AM
You need to view the desired boost vs actual boost as well as actual waste gate vs commanded. That's the only way you will know if one of the BOV's is failing. That way you have factual data to compare. Just listening to it won't be enough.
The only simple/quick thing I can think to do is have someone in the car, apply parking brake, put the car in gear, do a standing brake boost to full throttle while you hold your hand by the BOV to see how much boost is being dumped compared to the front bov.
I set up torque for the first time this morning and did not see any gauges for the option of desired boost, actual boost, actual waste gate and commanded. Is this something that can be monitored?
All I can confirm at this point is that the car never had audible noise from the BOV while VTA while accelerating before I got it back from the dealer. Something has changed since they have had it and I just want to help point them in the right direction once the dealer techs start looking.
You can try to use FORScan. Torque won't have those PID's unless you enter them in. That would be more of a question for the the other guys that are exceptional with torque.
As for pointing them in the right direction, it's either going to be to obvious that you know more than you should or it will be vague and they will spend days looking for it. All you can really do is try to pin point a boost leak or do what I said with the brake boost. The car will build boost just like if you were driving it. That's the only way you can find where the boost is going.
I think I can say with 100% surety that the boost is being passed via the BOV's. That is why I put them to VTA so I could hear when they were operating and they were dumping boost while accelerating under anything above 50% throttle position.
So the cause of this is either that the BOV's have both simultaneously failed(which I doubt) or the car's computer is telling the BOV's to dump boost because it is seeing a less than favorable condition.
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 11:58:33 AM
You need to view the desired boost vs actual boost as well as actual waste gate vs commanded. That's the only way you will know if one of the BOV's is failing. That way you have factual data to compare. Just listening to it won't be enough.
The only simple/quick thing I can think to do is have someone in the car, apply parking brake, put the car in gear, do a standing brake boost to full throttle while you hold your hand by the BOV to see how much boost is being dumped compared to the front bov.
If you actually do this, video tape it. I really want to see this.
Quote from: Jtrain on July 30, 2014, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 11:58:33 AM
You need to view the desired boost vs actual boost as well as actual waste gate vs commanded. That's the only way you will know if one of the BOV's is failing. That way you have factual data to compare. Just listening to it won't be enough.
The only simple/quick thing I can think to do is have someone in the car, apply parking brake, put the car in gear, do a standing brake boost to full throttle while you hold your hand by the BOV to see how much boost is being dumped compared to the front bov.
If you actually do this, video tape it. I really want to see this.
Haha. What you don't think I've done it before?
Well, When I had my car tuned. It would lung forward when i did the break/ebrake gas thing... Soooo
Quote from: Jtrain on July 30, 2014, 01:25:27 PM
Well, When I had my car tuned. It would lung forward when i did the break/ebrake gas thing... Soooo
You should bulk up your left leg then.. lol. Cause I apply a very heavy left foot and the car does not move.
My brakes are quite stout though.
Quote from: SRT82ECOBOOST on July 30, 2014, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 11:58:33 AM
You need to view the desired boost vs actual boost as well as actual waste gate vs commanded. That's the only way you will know if one of the BOV's is failing. That way you have factual data to compare. Just listening to it won't be enough.
The only simple/quick thing I can think to do is have someone in the car, apply parking brake, put the car in gear, do a standing brake boost to full throttle while you hold your hand by the BOV to see how much boost is being dumped compared to the front bov.
I set up torque for the first time this morning and did not see any gauges for the option of desired boost, actual boost, actual waste gate and commanded. Is this something that can be monitored?
All I can confirm at this point is that the car never had audible noise from the BOV while VTA while accelerating before I got it back from the dealer. Something has changed since they have had it and I just want to help point them in the right direction once the dealer techs start looking.
There is an entire thread on this in the datalogging section (desired boost vs. actual boost)
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3141.0.html)
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 01:28:38 PM
Quote from: Jtrain on July 30, 2014, 01:25:27 PM
Well, When I had my car tuned. It would lung forward when i did the break/ebrake gas thing... Soooo
You should bulk up your left leg then.. lol. Cause I apply a very heavy left foot and the car does not move.
My brakes are quite stout though.
I think 4WD is a more likely explanation.
Quote from: Jtrain on July 30, 2014, 02:01:01 PM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 01:28:38 PM
Quote from: Jtrain on July 30, 2014, 01:25:27 PM
Well, When I had my car tuned. It would lung forward when i did the break/ebrake gas thing... Soooo
You should bulk up your left leg then.. lol. Cause I apply a very heavy left foot and the car does not move.
My brakes are quite stout though.
I think 4WD is a more likely explanation.
Yes. Lol. Just giving you a hard time.
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 02:50:31 PM
Quote from: Jtrain on July 30, 2014, 02:01:01 PM
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 30, 2014, 01:28:38 PM
Quote from: Jtrain on July 30, 2014, 01:25:27 PM
Well, When I had my car tuned. It would lung forward when i did the break/ebrake gas thing... Soooo
You should bulk up your left leg then.. lol. Cause I apply a very heavy left foot and the car does not move.
My brakes are quite stout though.
I think 4WD is a more likely explanation.
Yes. Lol. Just giving you a hard time.
Do I have to pay you? *bites lip*
To the OP, I'm sure you've already fixed this issue, but in case you haven't, check this hose. It is right behind the front BOV. Mine came off while I was moving the charge tube around to change spark plugs. Never noticed it. Drove the car afterward and the BOV's were constantly opening and closing under acceleration.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160818/4bcaa34cba31413095f86d9435c75f7d.jpg)
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Quote from: Spenser281 on August 18, 2016, 07:42:36 AM
...check this hose. It is right behind the front BOV...
Holy crap this thread just saved my bacon. On my way to work today, I got on the throttle and the car made all kinds of awful noises, BOV was venting weird, no power. Had a minor heart attack, thinking something majorly broke. Happened to read this. Went downstairs and sure enough, this hose had popped off. Phew... Thank you forum gurus.
I would get Brad to come over right away and clamp down those hoses for ya :P
Quote from: SHOdded on March 15, 2018, 11:17:08 AM
I would get Brad to come over right away and clamp down those hoses for ya :P
You joke but I do need to clamp it. The hose keeps popping off, lol. When I looked at the end of the hose there was a layer of wet black oily gunk. It's all slicked up so the hose slides right on and off. In addition to the clamp, it looks to me like its time to invest in a catch can...
Quote from: SHOdded on March 15, 2018, 11:17:08 AM
I would get Brad to come over right away and clamp down those hoses for ya :P
House calls cost extra :)
Quote from: AJP turbo on March 15, 2018, 12:40:25 PMHouse calls cost extra.
What range of services do you offer when performing these house calls?
LOL.
Quote from: Agentlongwood on March 15, 2018, 12:24:33 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 15, 2018, 11:17:08 AM
I would get Brad to come over right away and clamp down those hoses for ya :P
You joke but I do need to clamp it. The hose keeps popping off, lol. When I looked at the end of the hose there was a layer of wet black oily gunk. It's all slicked up so the hose slides right on and off. In addition to the clamp, it looks to me like its time to invest in a catch can...
It sounds like you were spared in the heat of the moment! Glad you caught it on time . :)
I used some 1/4 - 6mm Hose clamps to fully secure all of the wastegate Hoses which worked like a charm . Z
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002AV3NLA/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1521134404&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX177_SY255_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=1%2F4+mini+hose+clamps (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002AV3NLA/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1521134404&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX177_SY255_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=1%2F4+mini+hose+clamps)
Quote from: bpd1151 on March 15, 2018, 01:03:51 PM
What range of services do you offer when performing these house calls?
LOL.
Hmmm ... Sounds like Brad's got a new customer "hooked" ...