Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Troubleshooting, Maintenance, TSB Articles => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: MiWiAu on March 05, 2019, 10:07:52 AM

Title: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 05, 2019, 10:07:52 AM
Hey guys!

Long time, no see! Hope you all are well! I dropped the Exploder off at the dealer this AM for a P0016 code (Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A).

This past weekend, I swapped the bank 1/bank 2 cam position sensors and cleared codes, and the DTC reappeared a couple days later - still P0016, so the DTC did not follow the sensor. :(

Does anybody happen to know if there was ever a formal TSB issued for the transverse GTDI relating to P0016? After some searching, I see some for the F150, but I can't find any that cover Taurus or Explorer.

Unfortunately, I don't have an ESP, and baby #2 just showed up in late January, so this repair bill should be timed perfectly with all the medical bills.   :bananafuck:

For reference the ODO was at 74,6XX miles when I dropped it off this morning. As far as symptoms are concerned, other than the CEL that came on last week, I have experienced an occasional slight rough idle over the last two years. By "occasional" I mean maybe one drive cycle every couple/three weeks it would idle slightly rough when in park or stopped in drive. Nothing crazy, and no CEL, but just different enough from "normal" to catch my attention. No other power, driveability, or fuel economy issues have been experienced. I can't say I've heard any cold-start rattle either, but frankly, I'm not sure what exactly timing chain rattle sounds like. If it's there, it's subtle, and I'm not picking it up.

For posterity, I will update with the diagnosis when I hear back from the dealer.

Stay tuned! (Unless you need to make a dealer trip, then stay stock!)  :chay:
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 05, 2019, 12:14:32 PM
Oh boy, sorry to hear this!  Usually means either a cam position sensor needs replacement (low probability), or the timing chains/guides are shot (high probability).  Often results in a failed water pump as it kills the bearings.

I do hope they find a wiring problem of some kind, would be a much less expensive fix.

And congrats on the new-addition-in-progress! :D
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 05, 2019, 12:29:47 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 05, 2019, 12:14:32 PM
Oh boy, sorry to hear this!  Usually means either a cam position sensor needs replacement (low probability), or the timing chains/guides are shot (high probability).  Often results in a failed water pump as it kills the bearings.

I do hope they find a wiring problem of some kind, would be a much less expensive fix.

And congrats on the new-addition-in-progress! :D

Bummer! That's kind of what I figured. I think I've ruled out the CPS with my sensor swap exercise.

Thanks for the heads up on the water pump. If they recommend timing chain/guide replacement, I will ask about the up-charge for the water pump as well.

Thanks, Manu!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 05, 2019, 01:25:07 PM
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :(  Hopefully the focus on the arrival of your next child will more than make up for it :)
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 05, 2019, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 05, 2019, 01:25:07 PM
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :(  Hopefully the focus on the arrival of your next child will more than make up for it :)

Baby #2 is already here (as of Jan 24). If there's another one on the way that I don't know about, then I definitely have bigger problems than a timing chain. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 05, 2019, 02:00:05 PM
SURPRISE!!! LOL!

Congrats, post a coupla pics of the new kid on the block!
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 05, 2019, 04:41:37 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 05, 2019, 02:00:05 PM
SURPRISE!!! LOL!

Congrats, post a coupla pics of the new kid on the block!

Here's the newest addition, James Ernest. Incidentally, I just got off the phone with the service advisor at the dealership, and I was making the exact same faces as he told me the damage...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/dc6e690288385bcab7ea70d7b445d48d.jpg)

Dealer confirmed a timing chain and all related parts need to be replaced - $3230. I asked them to do a water pump as well, which brought the total out-the-door cost to $3481. Ouch!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: bpd1151 on March 05, 2019, 05:30:36 PM
I think James is spot on in mimicking his father's own expressions. Way to go kid! (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/ae13a704d8b5412b7f6543cf30be0c51.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/6a7f8c95c1461575154a8bd312c84ba0.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/b6dd1d045b465e299a2dffe913225627.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 05, 2019, 05:33:46 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on March 05, 2019, 05:30:36 PM
I think James is spot on in mimicking his father's own expressions. Way to go kid!

Dude, that is AWESOME! Thanks for that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: bpd1151 on March 05, 2019, 05:36:09 PM
You're welcome. Hopefully it provides some stress relief of/from the impending repairs.

Beautiful baby. Congrats to you, Mom, siblings, and all ancillary family.

Very cool.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 05, 2019, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: MiWiAu on March 05, 2019, 04:41:37 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 05, 2019, 02:00:05 PM
SURPRISE!!! LOL!

Congrats, post a coupla pics of the new kid on the block!

Here's the newest addition, James Ernest. Incidentally, I just got off the phone with the service advisor at the dealership, and I was making the exact same faces as he told me the damage...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/dc6e690288385bcab7ea70d7b445d48d.jpg)

Dealer confirmed a timing chain and all related parts need to be replaced - $3230. I asked them to do a water pump as well, which brought the total out-the-door cost to $3481. Ouch!!!
The kid is apparently a born to MEME model LOL.  Very cute!

Call up Brian at BSG Automotive in IL.  You may be able to get the job done for half the price if you can skedaddle over there ... Also known as FordTechMakuloco on YT.  He does these jobbies pretty regularly.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ZSHO on March 06, 2019, 09:37:47 AM
Congrats on the newest addition to the Family Mike. Z  :)
Title: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 07, 2019, 05:12:26 PM
For future reference, I've attached the repair estimate, which includes the cost of the water pump.

I got a note from the SA around lunch that everything is apart, and they are in the process of putting all the new parts in and getting it back together.

Edited to add a sad picture:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190307/dc79784e983b5aece2347a8a237489e8.jpg)
Title: Rpm surging and engine shuttering during light acceleration
Post by: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 09:35:11 AM
My 2014 Explorer sport has come up with an issue. Ithe other day I noticed a stutter/engine shake during light acceleration under load. Shortly after during my drive an engine light came on and I scanned it resulting in a P00016 code. I immediately replaced the specified cam sensor that my reader recommended and cleared the light. Upon driving after replacement, the light hasn't come back but the stuttering/shaking continues. Research is showing a possible timing chain issue. Any insight?
Title: Re: Rpm surging and engine shuttering during light acceleration
Post by: ZSHO on March 08, 2019, 09:55:17 AM
Welcome there ebutler92! Here's a most recent thread that will shed some insight with the PO016.
Due setup an Intro by following the below link! TIA.  Z

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,9785.msg147328/topicseen.html#new (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,9785.msg147328/topicseen.html#new)

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,14.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,14.0.html)
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:01:36 AM
My 2014 Explorer sport has come up with a similar issue. The other day I noticed a stutter/engine shake during light acceleration under load. Shortly after during my drive an engine light came on and I scanned it resulting in a P00016 code. I immediately replaced the specified cam sensor that my reader recommended and cleared the light. Upon driving after replacement, the light hasn't come back but the stuttering/shaking continues. Research is showing a possible timing chain issue as well. Any other insight?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 10:21:07 AM
Sounds like the beginning of timing chain/tensioner failure.  Will eventually destroy the water pump as well.  Best advice is to take it in and have it serviced as soon as possible.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 10:30:46 AM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:01:36 AM
My 2014 Explorer sport has come up with a similar issue. The other day I noticed a stutter/engine shake during light acceleration under load. Shortly after during my drive an engine light came on and I scanned it resulting in a P00016 code. I immediately replaced the specified cam sensor that my reader recommended and cleared the light. Upon driving after replacement, the light hasn't come back but the stuttering/shaking continues. Research is showing a possible timing chain issue as well. Any other insight?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How much have you driven it since clearing the code?

I got the P0016 code once last winter (about a year ago) on a very cold day and cleared it, and it didn't come back again until last week.  I thought it was a fluke due to persistent sub-zero temps.

CEL came on again last week with P0016 code. I immediately cleared it, and it came back 24 hours later (~80 miles). I left the code this time and the CEL stayed on for 3 days/~120 mi before turning off again on its own. Came on again the following morning after ~20 miles.

The following day, I swapped the CPS bank 1/2 sensors, cleared the codes, and P0016 came back again the next day, so the code did not move with the sensor, and it was persistent in triggering the fault.

That's when I decided to take it to the dealer. If I had to do it over again, I would have shopped the repair at a couple of repair facilities, but my situation did not afford me the luxury of time to do this, and I'm paying for it (literally).

TL/DR: You may just need to drive a little more before it comes back on, but unfortunately I doubt it will go away on its own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:34:22 AM
Since reading this thread and a few others I have scheduled to have the timing chain/water pump replaced ASAP. Luckily when I purchased this sport I bought an extended warranty so hopefully this should only cost me my deductible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 10:38:05 AM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:01:36 AM
My 2014 Explorer sport has come up with a similar issue.

Research is showing a possible timing chain issue as well. Any other insight?

Also, just curious, how many miles do you have on your XSport?

If it is confirmed to be a timing chain, I would recommend lodging a formal complaint with Ford Customer Care.

IMHO, this failure (in my case at 74k miles) is a joke. I pleaded with the service manager and Ford Customer Care for some repair assistance, but they refused, since I am out of warranty. Both told me to save my repair invoice in case Ford launches a repair campaign in the future (possible reimbursement). I won't hold my breath, but  going to file away that receipt.

If complaints keep rolling in, maybe Ford will eventually do the right thing.

Makes me wonder if we'll see a lot more of these as the earlier Gen 5 Explorer Sports are getting some miles on them. :(



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 10:41:00 AM
Since you are out of pocket, Mike, be sure to get the old parts back and post pics.  If you had warranty, they generally refuse to give you the old parts back.  Let's see what was in your XSport.  Should be the dual toothed water pump and appropriate timing chain, but let's see.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 10:41:07 AM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:34:22 AM
Since reading this thread and a few others I have scheduled to have the timing chain/water pump replaced ASAP. Luckily when I purchased this sport I bought an extended warranty so hopefully this should only cost me my deductible.


Good luck! Getting it done under warranty ought to also get it on Ford's radar.

Glad to hear you have the ESP, because I have a serious case of the woulda/coulda/shouldas right now! :P

Keep us posted on the diagnosis!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:41:20 AM
Mine actually just rolled 100k last week. So significantly more mileage than yours. I've also ordered a catch can for mine. Been smelling a oil burning odor from the car recently as well. My first ecoboost so I'm new to all these issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 10:41:51 AM
Always get the old parts back.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 10:42:25 AM
Oil burning may be a valve cover and/or turbo issue most likely.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:43:22 AM
Does the engine always get pulled for this repair? If so my extended warranty covers gaskets and what not as well. Might as well have him to it all if it's out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 10:46:33 AM
Depends on the shop.  The manual says no need, but I see dealer AND nondealer shops pulling the engine anyway.
Title: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 10:46:45 AM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:41:20 AM
Mine actually just rolled 100k last week. So significantly more mileage than yours. I've also ordered a catch can for mine. Been smelling a oil burning odor from the car recently as well. My first ecoboost so I'm new to all these issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't want to jinx you, but the burning oil smell might be the PTU. That should also be covered under the ESP as well. I'd have them look at that when you bring it in for the code, so you don't have to pay your deductible twice.

EDIT: The burning oil smell and the shudder/vibration you are experiencing during acceleration are both potential symptoms of a PTU on its way out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 10:50:53 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 10:41:51 AM
Always get the old parts back.

I called the SA and asked for the old parts.

What do you do with the old parts other than post sweet pictures to EBPF? :)

I assume for something like a PTU replacement, there's a notable core charge.

I've always done my own service, so never saved anything, but this job was more than I had time for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 10:55:01 AM
you are paying out of pocket, no such thing as a core charge.  they may give you a refund if you let them keep the old parts, IDK, you would have to ask.

(http://www.tektuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/sculptures21.jpg)
(http://www.marcomahler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Tom_Samui_-_Sculptures_-_Fantasy_Creature.jpg)
(http://www.stevenshaver.com/mixed_media_parts_desk_sculpture_award_whitehat_security_web.jpg)
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 11:00:13 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 10:55:01 AM
you are paying out of pocket, no such thing as a core charge.  they may give you a refund if you let them keep the old parts, IDK, you would have to ask.

(http://www.marcomahler.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Tom_Samui_-_Sculptures_-_Fantasy_Creature.jpg)

Well, sheeeeit! I'm totally saving up for a dragon, now! This would be awesome in my front yard!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 11:03:18 AM
This is my first ecoboost. Hopefully the issues don't continue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 11:40:36 AM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 11:03:18 AM
This is my first ecoboost. Hopefully the issues don't continue.


I know you have ESP, but in case you (or future non-ESP victims) are curious, I've attached the estimate for the repair, which includes water pump replacement.

Note the (IMO) excessively high labor rate for the work: 16 hours @ $147.38/hr. I hadn't done the simple math on labor before authorizing the repair and was flabbergasted when I actually ran the calculation. I called the dealer this AM and asked them point-blank their shop labor rate, and was told $128.95. I then revealed who I was and my confusion around the $147.38/hr price on my service estimate. They put me on hold for a while then came back and said that they use grid pricing which essentially increase rates as job "complexity" goes up, hence the high labor charge. They did say, though, they would honor the $128.95/hr for the repair, and I'll take any help I can get at this point.

Does anybody happen to know if grid pricing is standard practice in the Ford dealer service world, or does each dealer set their pricing strategy independently? I think I've heard on this forum that the Lincoln dealers tend to offer a better overall experience. I found a stand alone Lincoln Black Label dealer not too far out of the way, and I'm thinking about taking future dealer service encounters to them.

Title: Re: Rpm surging and engine shuttering during light acceleration
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 12:07:12 PM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 09:35:11 AM
My 2014 Explorer sport has come up with an issue. Ithe other day I noticed a stutter/engine shake during light acceleration under load. Shortly after during my drive an engine light came on and I scanned it resulting in a P00016 code. I immediately replaced the specified cam sensor that my reader recommended and cleared the light. Upon driving after replacement, the light hasn't come back but the stuttering/shaking continues. Research is showing a possible timing chain issue. Any insight?

I mentioned this in my other thread that Z linked above, but in case someone stops on this one and goes no further...

You mentioned in the other thread that you also smell a burning oil smell, which prompted you to buy an OCC. I wonder if the oil smell + the stuttering/shaking might be indicative of pending PTU failure. When they leak, the oil often drips on the the exhaust causing the burning smell.

The stuttering may be related to the P0016/timing issue, or it could be that there happen to be two different failures occurring in parallel. :(
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 10:41:20 AM
I've also ordered a catch can for mine.


Side note, I'm not sure which OCC kit you ordered, but I did a write-up a while back for my 2013 that may or may not be a useful install reference: https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=6716.15 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=6716.15)
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 08, 2019, 12:16:26 PM
Ordered a upr setup


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 03:27:23 PM
Have never seen this tiered pricing before.  U figure if they are using book rate, there is no need for tiered pricing.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 08, 2019, 03:34:54 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 08, 2019, 03:27:23 PM
Have never seen this tiered pricing before.  U figure if they are using book rate, there is no need for tiered pricing.

One would think so, which peeves me even more, now that I have a rough idea of what they were doing.

I had never heard of it either, and there's not much out there on it. This is the best explanation I could find, and it's not very good: https://www.simple-car-answers.com/Grid-Pricing-Matrix.html (https://www.simple-car-answers.com/Grid-Pricing-Matrix.html)

Basically, it appears that they start with a "standard rate", and for every additional hour over the first an additional ~1% is added to the hourly rate. The thought being (per the link above) that the more challenging jobs take more time and somehow justify a higher rate because they are more complex.

In my case, a 16 hour job is 15 hours over the standard 1 hour rate of $128.95. The job is so complex that challenging that the dealer deserves more pay to execute, so rate sees a approximately 15% surcharge. $128.95 + 15% surcharge = $148.29/hr (which is pretty close to the $147.38/hr in my original quote, probably off because it's not exactly 1% per extra hour). How sleazy is that?

I don't personally don't agree with this tactic, and I'll be sure I don't sign off on any future service under this pricing structure. Tell me time and tell me rate.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ZSHO on March 08, 2019, 06:11:13 PM
That's almost Flat rate per hour! Dunno! I would highly suggest visiting a local Lincoln dealer for future reference IMHO and hoping they get her running to like new status once again. Z
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ZSHO on March 08, 2019, 06:29:53 PM
FYI- Both Topics started by MiWiAu and ebutler92 were merged together.TIA. Z  :)
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: Sabtaj1 on March 10, 2019, 06:25:23 AM
I just did my Flex recently.  Actually not a bad job to do at all.  It took me about 8 hours start to finish.  We dont have the phaser issues like the f150 so those should be fine.  Just need the chain, both large tensioners, and only the one small one located towards the front of the car up top, a new tensioner part that you pull pin and it puts pressure on the chain (brain fart), new crank pulley bolt, vct solenoid gaskets, intake gaskets, the ford sealant recommended for cover, O ring for where coolant attaches to bottom of intake and I would change water pump while in there.  Its quite simple and does not require many tools at all.  Just time and the cam alignment plates.  Which I purchased... And a Chrysler style pulley puller that you can barrow from autozone.  I was quoted 1600-1700 just in labor through the local ford dealer.  All in all I think I did mine for $500 or so plus my time.

Ps.  My chain was stretched bad.  I used to work at the local ford dealer like 20 years ago.  They had recently had a newer f150 that had 25k miles and had to have the chain replaced for being stretched. 
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 12, 2019, 11:55:31 AM
TL/DR: Fixed, but not really.

Dealer called yesterday afternoon and said the Explorer was ready to be picked up. I had my wife's car at work, so I stopped by the dealership on my way home to settle-up and get the keys. Total bill after tax was $3158.62. They dropped the $99 inspection cost and reduced the hourly rate to their "standard" $129.95 instead of the $147ish I was originally quoted.

Repair documentation indicates they completed the timing chain repair, the carbon monoxide recall repair, and confirmed everything was operational with a 6 mile test drive.

Fast forward to this AM. My wife dropped me off at the dealer at 7:20AM, so I could get the Explorer and drive myself to work. Pulled out to the stop light, got a green left arrow and proceeded through the intersection to the sound of a massive boost leak and no power.

Pulled a u-turn at the next intersection and dropped it back off at the dealer. Took the complimentary shuttle to work this morning, and now waiting on another call that it's actually fixed. Not sure how they missed that on the test drive. All the electronics and HVAC was powered down when I started it this morning, and I heard the leak over the sound of my heater blasting and the radio on.

:blowup:

On the plus side, no P0016 code in the 6.2 mile drive since the repair.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 12, 2019, 12:25:46 PM
Prob forgot to reconnect a hose or two/secure it properly. Very common after major repairs.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 12, 2019, 12:35:39 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on March 12, 2019, 12:25:46 PM
Prob forgot to reconnect a hose or two/secure it properly. Very common after major repairs.

I figured. Just surprised it wasn't caught during the test drive. I heard it immediately, so I suspect it was loose before I picked it up. Ohhh well.

SA called about 5 mins ago and said they got it fixed. Waiting on the shuttle now.

Side note: I saw a small box of parts on the floor mat in my back seat. Not sure what all is in there yet, but will get an inventory when I get home tonight. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 12, 2019, 01:21:55 PM
Round 2. Better, but still a slight leak under hard acceleration, but substantially better than before. I called the SA and notified him. I'm going to drive it home tonight and reinstall the hoses from the BOVs to the charge pipes, so all the air noises are eliminated at let-off.

If they are doing short on/off acceleration pulls through town and obeying speed limits, the BOVs might be masking the leak, which gets worse under prolonged acceleration as the turbos spool up.

I told them I wanted to take a tech and/or service advisor out tomorrow morning, to confirm they are hearing what I am hearing.  :devil: Muahahahahaha! Shake 'n Bake!
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 12, 2019, 03:16:51 PM
 :drive: >:D
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 12, 2019, 03:20:22 PM
How long have you been running with your BOV dumping to atmosphere?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 12, 2019, 03:36:17 PM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 12, 2019, 03:20:22 PM
How long have you been running with your BOV dumping to atmosphere?


About 2.5 years / 45k miles. The blow-off is pre-metered air on the EcoBoost, so it won't cause any runability problems like it can on other turbo layouts.

Frankly, I'll probably just leave the BOV hoses on after I reinstall them tonight.

The release is quite loud with both the front and rear hoses removed (rear points directly at firewall). If you want a more muted effect in the cabin, you can remove just the front one.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SM105K on March 12, 2019, 03:45:08 PM
Quote from: MiWiAu on March 12, 2019, 03:36:17 PM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 12, 2019, 03:20:22 PM
How long have you been running with your BOV dumping to atmosphere?


About 2.5 years / 45k miles. The blow-off is pre-metered air on the EcoBoost, so it won't cause any runability problems like it can on other turbo layouts.

Frankly, I'll probably just leave the BOV hoses on after I reinstall them tonight.

The release is quite loud with both the front and rear hoses removed (rear points directly at firewall). If you want a more muted effect in the cabin, you can remove just the front one.

I vented mine to atmosphere within the first 24 hours of owning my SHO.  I love how quiet the car is overall, and when you want to give someone the business give them the BOV's!  lol.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 12, 2019, 08:21:47 PM
Well an update. Glad I took my xsport to my friend shop rather than ford. Did a leak test with the smoke machine finding the rear bov was stuck open. Took it apart and found the rear had a blown diaphragm. This is most likely the cause of my stutter and issues. Much easier fix than the timing chain. Will update after replacement of both


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 12, 2019, 08:45:48 PM
Was reinstalling my BOV plumbing and noticed the dealer left the boost reference line disconnected, which explains the noise and erratic BOV discharges. Reconnected it and tightened the charge pipe retaining nut that they left loose, and I seem to be back in business for the time being.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/1e7717f9566ee179886aa129fd0d2255.jpg)

I hope the attention to detail on the internal work exceeded that of the external work.

Quote from: ebutler92 on March 12, 2019, 08:21:47 PM
Well an update. Glad I took my xsport to my friend shop rather than ford. Did a leak test with the smoke machine finding the rear bov was stuck open. Took it apart and found the rear had a blown diaphragm. This is most likely the cause of my stutter and issues.

Thanks for the update! Hope this gets you sorted!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 13, 2019, 07:54:33 AM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 12, 2019, 08:21:47 PM
Well an update. Glad I took my xsport to my friend shop rather than ford. Did a leak test with the smoke machine finding the rear bov was stuck open. Took it apart and found the rear had a blown diaphragm. This is most likely the cause of my stutter and issues. Much easier fix than the timing chain. Will update after replacement of both
Fingers crossed, that is all it is. One step at a time :)
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 13, 2019, 02:44:40 PM
Under further investigation the oil smell was in fact from the PTU leaking on the exhaust. That's out and being freshened up as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 13, 2019, 02:46:01 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/0ef20ea8829a99e730afd3de462122cf.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 13, 2019, 03:33:11 PM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 13, 2019, 02:46:01 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/0ef20ea8829a99e730afd3de462122cf.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Super interesting. Were you down on power as well?

Just curious, did you have your BOV vented to atmosphere? If so, did it make a horrendous noise under boost with the ruptured diaphragm?

If it had the original plumbing hooked up, I'm wondering how it was caught with a smoke test, since it would essentially be closed loop at that point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 13, 2019, 03:36:14 PM
Never did the vent to atmosphere thing. Never interested me. Cold air provided enough sound to satisfy my needs. But anyway, we pulled off the recirculation tube that then BOV's are mounted to and plugged both ends and port. It should have been a closed loop and no smoke should escape. Except the bov for the rear was stuck open allowing smoke to pour out. That's why we took it apart and discovered the bad diaphragm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on March 13, 2019, 03:37:52 PM
Quote from: ebutler92 on March 13, 2019, 03:36:14 PM
Never did the vent to atmosphere thing. Never interested me. Cold air provided enough sound to satisfy my needs. But anyway, we pulled off the recirculation tube that then BOV's are mounted to and plugged both ends and port. It should have been a closed loop and no smoke should escape. Except the bov for the rear was stuck open allowing smoke to pour out. That's why we took it apart and discovered the bad diaphragm


Nice. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ebutler92 on March 13, 2019, 03:39:17 PM
Sorry, to answer the other question. Yes it was down on power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: 10bird on March 18, 2019, 09:56:14 AM
My 2013 SHO is getting the P0016.  It has 97K so it probably needs a new chain.  Are there any upgrades that could be done at the same time to save labor? Would installing an intercooler be easier if done at the same time?
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: nickstewartroc on March 18, 2019, 10:00:46 AM
Quote from: 10bird on March 18, 2019, 09:56:14 AM
My 2013 SHO is getting the P0016.  It has 97K so it probably needs a new chain.  Are there any upgrades that could be done at the same time to save labor? Would installing an intercooler be easier if done at the same time?

Should replace your water pump while in there, and while you have it apart probably a good time for the intercooler as well!
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on March 18, 2019, 05:54:49 PM
It won't really save time with the intercooler install, unless the shop is taking out the engine to do the timing/pump work (i.e., not the factory way).  Then it definitely makes sense to do the IC at the same time.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 06, 2019, 09:57:29 AM
So, I've got a rattle on cold start coming from front passenger side. I never heard this until AFTER my timing chain replacement (less than 2k miles ago). I haven't noticed the noise after it has warmed up.

Thoughts?

https://youtu.be/rB__R-5hyY0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on May 06, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
Sounds terrible.  What all did they replace?
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 06, 2019, 01:09:15 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 06, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
Sounds terrible

LOL. Good thought. Think it could be timing chain rattle? Not sure exactly what timing chain rattle sounds like, but I would guess something like this...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on May 06, 2019, 02:27:01 PM
Did you post the invoice of the repair work?  I would like to see what all they changed out.  Strange the noise goes away after warmup.  Sure you have put 5W30 in there?  Belts and tensioner look OK? Motorcraft oil filter in use?
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 06, 2019, 06:16:05 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 06, 2019, 02:27:01 PM
Did you post the invoice of the repair work?  I would like to see what all they changed out.  Strange the noise goes away after warmup.  Sure you have put 5W30 in there?  Belts and tensioner look OK? Motorcraft oil filter in use?

Post 33 has the estimate with all the parts. I'll have to check the repair order to see if they specify the oil type used. The replaces the oil and coolant after the repair. I haven't changed the fluids since the repair.

I just left town for work, so I won't be able to do anything with it until Friday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: ZSHO on May 06, 2019, 06:19:11 PM
Quote from: MiWiAu on May 06, 2019, 06:16:05 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 06, 2019, 02:27:01 PM
Did you post the invoice of the repair work?  I would like to see what all they changed out.  Strange the noise goes away after warmup.  Sure you have put 5W30 in there?  Belts and tensioner look OK? Motorcraft oil filter in use?

Post 33 has the estimate with all the parts. I'll have to check the repair order to see if they specify the oil type used. The replaces the oil and coolant after the repair. I haven't changed the fluids since the repair.

I just left town for work, so I won't be able to do anything with it until Friday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The sound really troubles me!
I would make an Appt ASAP with mentioned symptoms.  Z

Repair bill Middle of page!
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,9785.30.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,9785.30.html)
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on May 06, 2019, 07:06:40 PM
K so they did main timing chain, coolant pump, phasers and solenoids.  They did not do tensioners and guides, or secondary chains.  Tensioners and guides are always recommended to be done at the same time.

Anyway, here is the official list of parts involved in the timing system

17   AT4Z-6268-C   Timing Chain
EXPLORER; PRIMARY

$68.07   $46.97   
17   7T4Z-6268-CA   Timing Chain
EXPLORER; SECONDARY; W/ TURBO

$23.48   $16.20   
18   7T4Z-6K254-AA   Tensioner
EXPLORER; W/ TURBO; SECONDARY; RIGHT

$42.37   $29.23   
18   7T4Z-6K254-BA   Tensioner
EXPLORER; W/ TURBO; SECONDARY; LEFT

$50.85   $35.09   
18   BA5Z-6L266-B   Tensioner
EXPLORER; W/ TURBO; PRIMARY

$37.15   $25.63   
19   BA5Z-6B274-A   Tensioner Arm
EXPLORER; W/ TURBO; LEFT

$23.43   $16.17   
19   BA5Z-6K255-A   Tensioner Arm
EXPLORER; W/ TURBO; RIGHT

$22.67   $15.64   
20   BA5Z-6M256-A   Chain Guide
EXPLORER; W/ TURBO; PRIMARY CHAIN; RIGHT

$12.08   $8.34   
20   BA5Z-6K297-B   Chain Guide
EXPLORER; W/ TURBO; PRIMARY CHAIN; LEFT

$12.32   $8.50   

7T4Z-6M280-C   Control Valve Solenoid
EXPLORER; W/ TURBO

$83.37   $57.52   

minus the cam/crank sprockets.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 06, 2019, 07:22:31 PM
So, I've heard that Ford repairs come with a 24 month warranty? If that's true, does the work have to be done by the original servicing dealer, or can it be any Ford/Lincoln dealer?

Looks like I have some leg work to do when I get back from my trip. :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on May 06, 2019, 07:37:27 PM
Parts come with a 2 yr/unlimited mileage warranty.

At my dealer, service warranty is 3 months/4,000 miles.  IDK if it is transferable.  You should pursue with the servicing dealer, then take it up the ladder to Ford if necessary, before attempting a second servicing dealer.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 08, 2019, 09:19:40 AM
I've been in contact with the dealer. The truck will be making another trip early next week for evaluation. They confirmed parts and labor associated to my prior repair are covered 24 months, unlimited mileage.

I'll keep you posted on what they find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on May 08, 2019, 09:27:37 AM
Good warranty, hope their workmanship is up to snuff.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 14, 2019, 04:54:01 PM
Update: The rattle was diagnosed today as a bad belt tensioner and is being replaced under my new ESP for the $100 deductible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on May 14, 2019, 05:16:53 PM
timing tensioner?
Title: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 14, 2019, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 14, 2019, 05:16:53 PM
timing tensioner?

I believe he was referring to the serpentine belt tensioner. Will confirm shortly when I pick up.

I'm a bit skeptical, but trying hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. Worst case, I bring it back tomorrow...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: Macgyver on May 14, 2019, 10:34:08 PM
Quote from: MiWiAu on May 14, 2019, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 14, 2019, 05:16:53 PM
timing tensioner?

I believe he was referring to the serpentine belt tensioner. Will confirm shortly when I pick up.

I'm a bit skeptical, but trying hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. Worst case, I bring it back tomorrow...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So when did you get the ESP ? I was thinking about getting one soonish.
Title: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 15, 2019, 07:14:49 AM
Quote from: Macgyver on May 14, 2019, 10:34:08 PM

So when did you get the ESP ? I was thinking about getting one soonish.

Just a couple months ago right after the timing chain failure before I rolled 75k miles.

I got mine through Ziegler Ford for over $1000 less than I was quoted by Ford ESP direct.

I opted for the 60k/48 mo plan, which was the most I could add with my current mileage. There's an inspection form that the dealer needs to complete, which ran me $125.

https://www.zeiglerfordesp.com/process/quickquote.aspx?type=primary



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 15, 2019, 08:19:09 AM
Quote from: MiWiAu on May 14, 2019, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 14, 2019, 05:16:53 PM
timing tensioner?

I believe he was referring to the serpentine belt tensioner. Will confirm shortly when I pick up.

I'm a bit skeptical, but trying hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. Worst case, I bring it back tomorrow...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Confirmed - they replaced the serpentine belt and tensioner.

My skepticism is waning. After several days of this rattle (consistently appearing 45-60 sec after a cold start), there was no noise this morning...

Repair order attached for posterity.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190515/1593997ad04ead8d9222ce25e80f9546.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on May 15, 2019, 09:37:45 AM
Would be great if this is true, fingers crossed :)  First instance of rattling caused by belt tensioner.  Usually it's like cards in bicycle spokes kind of "flitting" sound, mostly on colder days/near freezing & below.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on May 15, 2019, 09:57:54 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 15, 2019, 09:37:45 AM
Would be great if this is true, fingers crossed :)  First instance of rattling caused by belt tensioner.  Usually it's like cards in bicycle spokes kind of "flitting" sound, mostly on colder days/near freezing & below.

Yeah, I definitely would have guessed chain slap. Didn't sound like any tensioner/belt issue I've heard.

The little nugget in the repair order is to remove the accessory belt and see if the noise goes away. I could have done that, but I was convinced it was timing chain related.

I'll check back if the noise returns. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on September 10, 2019, 10:55:15 AM
FYI, my coworker told me this morning that he got a P0016 code on his 2014 XSport with 73k miles. He bought it new and it's all stock.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: SHOdded on September 10, 2019, 11:04:20 AM
Sorry to hear :(  Best I can say is coolant needed to be changed or maybe shoulda been running full synth all along.  Doesn't seem to be a place to point the finger tho.
Title: Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
Post by: MiWiAu on September 10, 2019, 11:41:55 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on September 10, 2019, 11:04:20 AM
Sorry to hear :(  Best I can say is coolant needed to be changed or maybe shoulda been running full synth all along.  Doesn't seem to be a place to point the finger tho.

Yeah, I don't have any details on his service history, but I found it curious that he's experiencing similar symptoms at nearly the same mileage that I had.

If he has it diagnosed/repaired, I'll update with any new info. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
EhPortal 1.39.5 © 2024, WebDev