Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Troubleshooting, Maintenance, TSB Articles => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: FearlessAZ on January 09, 2018, 10:19:41 AM

Title: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on January 09, 2018, 10:19:41 AM
Been trying to track down the cause of random misfires lately. Just after Thanksgiving, got a random misfire on cylinder 5 while driving back from Tucson. Cleared it and haven't thought much of it. Figured it was cause the wife put in 87 instead of 91. Just a couple days ago got another random misfire but on cylinder 2. Went to clear it and noticed a p0300 code as well. Spark plugs are still fairly new. Maybe 12K-15K at most. I will dig in to it more later when I have some free time. Just scratching my head on it.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on January 09, 2018, 11:54:24 AM
Plugs and injectors are the usual culprits, sometime leaky VC gaskets.  Interesting it showed on 2 & 5, as they fire sequentially.  Waste spark is not used in this ignition system, so ...  Poor fuel/insufficient octane can also be culprits, as you have noted.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: AJP turbo on January 09, 2018, 01:10:32 PM
Im suspecting coils due to the age
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: ZSHO on January 09, 2018, 04:17:50 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on January 09, 2018, 11:54:24 AM
Plugs and injectors are the usual culprits, sometime leaky VC gaskets.  Interesting it showed on 2 & 5, as they fire sequentially.  Waste spark is not used in this ignition system, so ...  Poor fuel/insufficient octane can also be culprits, as you have noted.
Manu maybe "troubleshooting section" perhaps for better traction! Thanks!  Z  :)
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on January 11, 2018, 08:21:29 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on January 09, 2018, 11:54:24 AM
Plugs and injectors are the usual culprits, sometime leaky VC gaskets.  Interesting it showed on 2 & 5, as they fire sequentially.  Waste spark is not used in this ignition system, so ...  Poor fuel/insufficient octane can also be culprits, as you have noted.

She knows that I stress 91 only and nothing less. And she knows I made a deal out of it the one time I found out. It is entirely possible she did it again and did not tell me.

That is good to know because they are both next to eachother. I will keep my eyes peeled.

Quote from: Macgyver on January 09, 2018, 12:55:25 PM
Were they all gapped the same ?

Yes. All were gapped at about .029. When I have time, I will go through and recheck the gap and double check the plugs.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 09, 2018, 01:10:32 PM
Im suspecting coils due to the age

That is very possible too. I know They are still the factory coils. I can check them out when I check the plugs. Any things to look for specifically? I know I am overdue for a data log now that all the new parts have had time to settle and be broken in. Would that possibly show an injector or 2 starting to go out?
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on January 12, 2018, 10:52:09 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 09, 2018, 04:17:50 PM
Manu maybe "troubleshooting section" perhaps for better traction! Thanks!  Z  :)

Thank you. Was going to start one and just been super busy lately. Didn't mean for that post to go for more than a response. Lol
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on January 12, 2018, 11:06:02 AM
Administrative detail.  No biggie.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: jimmyducati on February 04, 2018, 04:54:09 PM
I had the same problem although just cylinder #6. Try swapping both coils with two known good cylinders and seeing if the problem follows. If not, the injectors are not to terribly expensive and are actually rather easy to R&R. As a bonus, you'll get to scope your intake valves pretty easily and see their condition!
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 14, 2018, 07:28:26 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on January 09, 2018, 11:54:24 AM
Plugs and injectors are the usual culprits, sometime leaky VC gaskets.  Interesting it showed on 2 & 5, as they fire sequentially.  Waste spark is not used in this ignition system, so ...  Poor fuel/insufficient octane can also be culprits, as you have noted.


It has been driven a lot less lately. But I need to get it ready for a road trip in about a week. I have cleared the code a couple times. Seems it is just misfire for cylinder 2 now. I will try to get into it tomorrow. Gonna flash back to stock for the time being just in case it needs to make a quick dealership trip.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 14, 2018, 07:57:00 PM
Guess it is now wait and see!
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 15, 2018, 02:48:45 PM
Cylinder 2 in the one on the rear in the middle, correct? Figured I would start at the problem. When I looked at my notes last night, Seems like I have about 15K miles on the plugs. Doesn't seem like too much to me.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: ZSHO on March 15, 2018, 03:00:33 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on March 15, 2018, 02:48:45 PM
Cylinder 2 in the one on the rear in the middle, correct? Figured I would start at the problem. When I looked at my notes last night, Seems like I have about 15K miles on the plugs. Doesn't seem like too much to me.
Correct! Rear middle cylinder. Z

                      1       2        3

                      4       5        6

(https://i.imgur.com/gCsvIPUh.jpg?4)
                            Front bank of engine
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 15, 2018, 06:07:51 PM
Well, Livernois has stated 15K as plug change intervals, so you are right at that boundary :)
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 15, 2018, 08:34:33 PM
Plug 2
(https://preview.ibb.co/mGQkec/20180315_170408.jpg)
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 16, 2018, 01:23:54 AM
Part lean, part rich electrode?  No buildup though.  what is the measured gap?  consistent with the other plugs on that bank?
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 16, 2018, 02:22:35 PM
Measured just about .029. Ran out of time before pulling the other plugs. I swapped the coils on 2 and 6. See if maybe it jumps. I couldn't visually see anything wrong with coil 2 but that doesn't mean much.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: ZSHO on March 16, 2018, 03:42:44 PM
Check the COP for any tears or rips...sometimes it's beneficial to install new COP (Coil-On-Plug) especially in high heat climates which are more susceptible to wear n tear.. some food for thought.  Z

$3.78 ea
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3422364&cc=1446498&jsn=1572 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3422364&cc=1446498&jsn=1572)

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2011,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1446498,ignition,spark+plug+/+coil-on-plug+boot,10150 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/ford,2011,taurus,3.5l+v6+turbocharged,1446498,ignition,spark+plug+/+coil-on-plug+boot,10150)
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 16, 2018, 04:49:03 PM
I checked it for any signs of wear. Couldnt see anything out of the ordinary. Nut there is a lot going on internally that I don't have access to see. I heard the coils tend to go around this time for the older SHOs. But it is usually one or 2. Was looking at the MSD ones about a month ago but never heard if there was any real benefit to it. But seems like a set of plugs and coils are on the list for the near future.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 16, 2018, 05:04:22 PM
0.029 is hardly worn.  Original must have been 0.028?  And no sign of oil?
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 16, 2018, 05:40:09 PM
I believe we gapped to .028  when we installed. I thought it was about .029 but current gap says otherwise. I said about .029 but its about half way between .029 and .03. I couldn't find any oil around. Boot and plug just had a little grease for the install. Plug is exactly as pictured. I tried to look down into the hole but didn't see anything out of the ordinary. And nothing struck me as out of place when I pulled the plug.

My wife has been driving it since about August. I know she isnt as "spirited" as me when she drives. So I know she hasn't done any launches or hard accelerations like I have. Hell, even when I drove it, I would only do when data logging. Once I had all the work done, I babied it so it could break in correctly.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 18, 2018, 10:50:19 AM
So after those minor tweaks, I drover a good couple hundred miles yesterday. Felt smooth all over. Parked and went inside for an errand. Came out, turned on the AC at idle, Felt it get kind of rough. Another misfire cylinder 2. Starting to think it is possibly an injector issue. Was absolutely fine driving around everywhere.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 18, 2018, 11:23:37 AM
Sure seems like it.  Since there no signs of COP failure and the plug looks ok, injector is at the head of the list now.  We have had one member document his R&R experience if you intend to DIY.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 18, 2018, 01:14:58 PM
I will probably let the dealership handle that one. Seemed pretty straight forward on the DIY. I still have a warranty and there are a couple other small issues I need addressed.

I know it isnt ideal but will probably still take the SHO on the trip. Will keep a close eye on it. but as soon as I get back, it will be going in.

What's your consensus on running a bottle of Techron or something similiar just to see if it helps a bit?
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 18, 2018, 01:37:25 PM
cant hurt.  Make sure you put in the Concentrate Plus product, not a lesser one.  If you can get BG 44K, that would be even better. 

I assume you are running E10, so a bottle of HEET (yellow bottle) might also help, but prob take a tank's worth of gas to find out.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on March 18, 2018, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on March 18, 2018, 01:14:58 PM
I will probably let the dealership handle that one. Seemed pretty straight forward on the DIY. I still have a warranty and there are a couple other small issues I need addressed.

I know it isnt ideal but will probably still take the SHO on the trip. Will keep a close eye on it. but as soon as I get back, it will be going in.

What's your consensus on running a bottle of Techron or something similiar just to see if it helps a bit?
I ran 3 bottles through the MKS when I got it.

Costco has 6 packs cheap.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 18, 2018, 04:15:04 PM
Usually I run a bottle of the concentrate or sometimes I will run a bottle of Guaranteed To Pass. Just depends. I will do some driving and see if I can get this tank low and throw in a bottle and see how it reacts.

FoMo, good thinking! I never think costco when it comes to automotive stuff so I will have to try that out!
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 18, 2018, 04:16:24 PM
True, but they have the "diluted" version of the product, so you will NEED more bottles to get the job done.
https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Chevron-Techron-Fuel-Injection-Cleaner%2c-16-oz%2c-6-ct.product.11947789.html (https://www.costcobusinessdelivery.com/Chevron-Techron-Fuel-Injection-Cleaner%2c-16-oz%2c-6-ct.product.11947789.html)
VS
https://smile.amazon.com/Chevron-65740-CASE-Techron-Concentrate-Cleaner/dp/B0097SDUTE/ (https://smile.amazon.com/Chevron-65740-CASE-Techron-Concentrate-Cleaner/dp/B0097SDUTE/)
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on March 18, 2018, 09:38:35 PM
Maybe...probably just marketing gobbledygook.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 30, 2018, 09:29:57 AM
Well, SHO died on the trip. Broke down outside of San Antonio in Kerrville. Wife was driving and started acting funny. Then it just died. Tried to restart and nothing. Had it towed to the ford dealership in Kerrville. They said when they checked, it had no oil and the motor seized up. Had an oil change the day before we left. They have had the car for a week now and barely got it on a lift yesterday. Still don't know exactly what caused the leak or if the dealership that did the oil change is at fault. Sure hope it was their fault. Will end up needing a new motor. But hey, the rest of the trip was fun.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: StinkinLinkin13 on March 30, 2018, 09:42:43 AM
Man that sucks. What a turn of events. So you had no warning? Low oil pressure/level?
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 30, 2018, 09:57:38 AM
Low oil light/warning came on after we pulled over and tried to restart the car. But damage was already done by then. I had no reason to believe it was low or anything because Sanderson Ford did the oil change the day before we left. I usually do the oil changes but the only reason I chose dealer for this one was so they could do the inspection and potentially flag any other issues.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 30, 2018, 10:02:17 AM
How did a possible leaky injector change into a blown motor ... wow!  Pretty sure the oil change was not done correctly.  If it was an internal engine issue lots of bells and whistles would have gone off.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 30, 2018, 10:15:21 AM
That's what I am saying. Lol. Pretty sure the two are not related. Only info I have right now is that oil is all over the undercarriage and passenger side and that it looks like oil is coming from the turbos too. They haven't been able to pin point exactly where or what caused the failure. I am just going off what the service adviser told me this morning. He is supposed to send me pictures some time today.

Right now it is a lot of back and forth between the ford dealership in Kerrville and the one here. The service adviser and tech working on my car are both leaning heavily towards something that the ford dealership did here either with the oil change or the ton of work I had about 6 months ago.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 30, 2018, 10:33:04 AM
fingers x'ed for ya, man.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 30, 2018, 11:07:21 AM
Me too. It is basically going to come down to 2 options:

1. It was an issue caused by recent work (oil change or turbos/timing chain) and Sanderson Ford will end up covering the 2 nights of hotel, towing, car rental for the trip, courtesy vehicle or rental car for time of repair now that I am back home and to either have my car shipped back to AZ or fly me out to San Antonio.

2. It will all go through the warranty. Not sure if they will reimburse for the tow but they should cover the rental vehicle for the trip and hotel. Would still need to see where I stand with everything with them. Warranty will cover a good chunk of a new engine replacement but I would imagine the cost would be less than $1k to me. Plus some other variables.

It all depends on what the root cause of the issue is. Either way, I know the next few weeks are going to be a massive headache with all the back and forth and this and that.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 30, 2018, 11:25:59 AM
Here is a link to my Onedrive. These are the pictures that he sent me.

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhDKFWmaypTz7AH0n3JvfxMoxAfs
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: StinkinLinkin13 on March 30, 2018, 12:42:02 PM
Yeah this is looking more like a timing chain issue... Especially considering the issues you were having recently and the coolant leaking underneath the timing cover. Did they verify that there was actually no oil? The dipstick will read nothing if it's even only maybe 2 quarts low... Looks like in the pic they still have the drain plug on the pan.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 30, 2018, 01:27:49 PM
They said there was about a quart. So it wasn't COMPLETELY dry.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on March 30, 2018, 01:59:46 PM
Well then fill it up and be on your way.  Quit whining.  LOL
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on March 30, 2018, 03:24:06 PM
LMAO. I wish I could. I told my wife this is why she isn't allowed to drive that car. Always has the worst luck with it.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 08, 2018, 11:08:05 AM
Small Update:

They still haven't begun tear down of the motor yet. Been 2 weeks now. Said i might be torn apart by Wednesday/Thursday.

I contacted the service manager at the dealership here in town that did the work. He was able to tell me that the oil was leaking from the turbos. So they are even leaning that it has something to do with all the work they did. But until they actually find the point of failure, I am stuck here waiting. I did explain to him that the car is 1000+ miles away and that in the 2 weeks that they have had it, they have only been able to tell me it lost majority of the oil, it barely got on a lift and still waiting until sometime later this week before they can pull the motor and do the tear down. The service manager advised me to get with a service adviser at the dealership here and see if they can get me in to a loaner vehicle or to pay for a rental through Enterprise. And after explaining the amount of time this has already taken and circumstances, he told me to see if the service adviser here will get in contact with the Ford rep for that region to put some urgency to the situation or to try and help out.

He also mentioned that if it is directly related to this dealership's work, it would be covered under the consequential warranty of the service/parts. Does anyone have any info to what all entails in that warranty? I know it will cover the parts and labor but I have no idea if it would extend to the rental car and hotel I had to get because of the situation. Just trying to be realistic with it. He mentioned the service adviser would know more of the specifics of the warranty but I thought maybe someone here would know more about it.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: mjhpadi on April 08, 2018, 03:39:17 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 09, 2018, 01:10:32 PM
Im suspecting coils due to the age
This was my first thought. But mileage may have more to do with it than age. 
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 08, 2018, 07:52:41 PM
Not sure if the consequential warranty will cover rental/hotel as standard, but dealership mgmt should be able to make that accommodation I would think.  Customer service and all.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 09, 2018, 10:06:15 AM
But the misfire didn't jump cylinders when I swapped the coil on plugs. It came back to the same cylinder.

Really not much miles on the car compared to the standard. I think about 82K.


I believe the same thing. Not sure what the whole scope of that warranty is. I guess I will find out later today.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 26, 2018, 03:19:52 PM
Another update today.

They finished the teardown and couldn't find anything out of the ordinary. They are claiming that it leaked out from the intake. I call bullshit on that. 6 months with no issues, get an oil change and then run out 13 hours later. That doesn't say anything about my intake leaking to me. I would have noticed something if it was leaking that hard from the intake.

And to top it off, my extended warranty (3rd party) is denying the claim because it was due to lack of lubrication. Another bullshit in my opinion.

I called the service manager at the dealership where all my previous work was done. He even thinks that sounds like bullshit. He gave me the number for Ford Corporate to start a claim and get them involved.

As it sits right now, I am completely Effed all around. I can't pay for it all out of pocket. I plan to call the warranty company later but I know that will be a headache. After both of them, I will have to weigh my options.

*Edited by the Pottymouth Patrol
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 26, 2018, 03:22:35 PM
Yup, need to get a Ford Engineer onsite to cut through the BS.  Dealership is doing what it does best ...
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 26, 2018, 03:26:32 PM
They have had the car 5 weeks now. I know that oil is slow to dry but I would bet my ass that in 5 weeks, that problem is a hell of a lot harder to diagnose than at a week or so.

Even if this situation was covered 100%, I would not be happy with how the whole situation was handled. No rental/loaner during this time. The amount of time to come to that conclusion. The constant missed time frames.

Better start getting my blood pressure under control or I will need a new motor myself.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 26, 2018, 05:39:10 PM
Go shoot some skeet or something.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 26, 2018, 10:12:01 PM
I totally took that the wrong way. Lmao
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 27, 2018, 03:56:30 AM
LOL
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 27, 2018, 09:30:12 AM
To play devil's advocate here, lets say the oil did leak out of my intake. What would cause that? Is there a system that pushes some through there? Also, wouldn't there be signs before then? Possibly my misfire?

I'm just dumbfounded that something like that was the cause of all this.


Also if it helps, I pulled the codes when it died on us. P0430, P0012, P0022, P0050, and P0150. I know that is a cluster of problems but not sure if related in any way. I realized last night that they never mentioned anything about the codes. I emailed to inquire more. 
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 27, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
So I just got off the phone with the dealership. They are citing that it leaked from my VTA. He claimed that oil is supposed to recirculate through those tubes and mine weren't on. Basically they tore everything down and couldn't find anything so they are just assuming this is the cause.

I mentioned that a little bit of oil is OK but for the amounts we are talking about, something had to fail to allow that much oil to go through.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 27, 2018, 02:41:58 PM
just tryin to blow oil up your a** now.  Do they understand how VTAs work???
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 27, 2018, 02:52:33 PM
I am not even sure if they know how a Ford works.


For shits and giggles, I asked what the quote would be for everything out of pocket....$12,374.43. f**k that! Worth more than the KBB of my car.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 27, 2018, 04:23:31 PM
Real turds at that place.  Time to launch the MOAB.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 28, 2018, 09:28:33 AM
I have a buddy of mine who was a Ford tech in Vegas for 5 years (Dad is also service manager there so they both know their stuff) and he agrees that is doesn't sound right. They are citing it is the cold air charging pipe. If that is true, that is an air only pipe (with the very occasional bits of oil). So what caused the back up of oil to leak from there then? He is advising me to get the manager involved and go from there.

I would add the pictures from the emails that the dealership sent but I am at work and firewalls won't allow me to upload somewhere to host them. I can forward the emails if anybody wants to look or post sometime in the next day or so when I can get to a computer.

Also, SHOdded, not sure if you want to split this topic up. I feel like I derailed it form the original problem.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 29, 2018, 07:40:22 AM
Estimate of work, and Pic set 1 of 2
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 29, 2018, 07:41:27 AM
Pic set 2 of 2
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 29, 2018, 08:31:46 AM
Thanks SHOdded!


Interesting enough, I was digging around some old old threads trying to find anything remotely similar. This one post from ShoBoat kind of intrigued me.

Quote from: ShoBoat on April 05, 2015, 12:03:05 PM
I have witnessed the same issue with my 13. Not as much oil consumption though. A dirty or restrictive air filter will cause the problem to get worse, also any restriction to the PCV system can also make it worse and lastly too much oil in the pan can also cause a similar situation (over fill). I took mine in when I had a similar issue and the dealer said it was normal (I had 45K KM on mine at the time). I am still not sure what is normal, all I know is that it can accumulate in the CAC, and if you get on it on the expressway it will suck all that out of the CAC and into the intake. Risking vapour lock or just a shudder (which will be logged by the car as several misfires). Again this happened to me in the past (the shudder). A turbo upgrade and meth are my next mods to my ride, the OEM turbos can be a PITA when it comes to this issue, the dealers and Ford are not willing to do anything about it unless its really bad. With the stock tune it is difficult to replicate these conditions as it doesn't suck/blow as hard as good 93 tune. I know that the F150's have had similar issues with both water and oil in the CAC causing a shudder at WOT in higher gears (easier to replicate different turbos/cac) I would keep an eye on the level in the CAC as mentioned by SHOdded.   

Entire thread can be read here https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4511.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4511.0.html)
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on April 29, 2018, 01:43:01 PM
Still points to a dealer issue.  It takes time for for a dirty air filter to cause a bigger problem, unless of course you drove it in the Outback or something and clogged it up FAST.  Overfilling - dealer issue.  Underfilling - dealer issue.  And these guys are well known for leaving parts not properly connected after servicing.  It's like you have to audit their work before you accept your car back.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on April 29, 2018, 02:17:54 PM
I am almost positive that the filter couldn't have been that dirty.

But the misfire part lined up with the rest of the nonsense. And with the VTA, maybe that is what pulled the oil out?

I guess at this point, I just have to wait for Ford's word. I will be calling them tomorrow for an update.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on May 25, 2018, 12:01:17 PM
After a lot of back and forth with the dealership in TX, they want to ship the car out here because they can not find any exact cause. They also wan't me to pay for the shipping.

The dealership here in AZ can't own up to anything because the TX dealership just gives them a lot of maybes. Maybe it is this. Maybe it is that. Dealership can't do anything about maybes.

The way the dealership presented it to the warranty company was screw up. At the time, they told the warranty company they couldn't find a leak or a failed part so of course they will deny the claim because that is a dealership issue to cover.

Seems like every thing they presented falls back to the AZ dealership. First it was the charge pipe leaking form my BOVs, then they didn't think the right amount of oil was ever put in, then they claimed they thought the timing chain cover wasn't installed correctly. All point back to the dealership here. But all just maybes.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on May 25, 2018, 12:21:59 PM
Unless Ford is willing to work the dealership in AZ and provide assistance in your case, the only other option I see is lawyering up.  Even then, I think it will depend on the lawyer, not the documentation ... :(
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on December 05, 2018, 08:20:08 AM
So after many months, final conclusion after the tear down is the dealership believes it to be a low fill scenario. They can't find an external leak to warrant that much of a loss and no signs of ingestion. The actual cause of the motor seizing was the turbo impellers basically began to melt and the engine main bearing became wasted due to the high heat and friction of no oil.


After so much back in forth with the dealership in Texas and them refusing to do a tear down, I was forced to have the car shipped back here to Phoenix to restart the whole process. The dealership here did the tear down and came to the conclusion above. They say it is the only thing that makes sense.

After talking with the GM here of the dealership that did all the work and the oil change, he says they will not claim any responsibility. He says there is no way I would have made it that far and anything could have happened between here and there.

Guess it is time to lawyer up.

Facts on the table are that I did make it that far and less than 24 hours after the oil change. No warning lights at all until I tried to restart the vehicle on the side of the road. After full tear down, no signs of a leak anywhere close to that big or any signs of ingestion.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on December 05, 2018, 08:29:07 AM
sorry to hear the offending dealership is not cooperating, but sometimes you have to take assistance from the means provided by law.  I hope you smack 'em down but good!  You are one patient dude!!!
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: ZSHO on December 05, 2018, 01:29:41 PM
X2 sorry to hear about the mischief with this dealer especially with the holidays just around the corner. Best of luck and keep us updated. Z
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on December 10, 2018, 11:22:26 AM
The one thing I constantly hear from these techs and managers is it wouldn't make it that far on a quart of oil and how come the oil didnt come on. I have absolutely no answers to these.

Is the light an oil pressure or level light? It didn't come on until we were already on the side of the road and about to try and turn it back on.

I can't even begin to explain how it made it that far. I have heard when they do oil changes, there is roughly a quart still inside everything unless flushed. With a good synthetic and a couple quarts, I could believe it made it that far with the same result of stuff getting hot enough to cause the damage.


I am just stumped by these things.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on December 10, 2018, 11:31:05 AM
AFAIK, strictly a dumb light based on yes/no to a set, expected oil pressure level.  Couldn't tell you the finer details re how that works though, there is an acceptable range because pressure will vary by temperature, rpm, etc.  Have to look-see if there is info in the shop manual about it.

For a 3.5L NA engine
Oil pressure  Minimum 30 psi @ 1,500 rpm with engine at normal operating temperature 

For a 2.0EB engine
Oil pressure (hot @ 2,000 rpm)  200 kPa (29.01 psi) - 268 kPa (38.87 psi) 

For a 3.5L EB engine
Oil pressure  Minimum 30 psi @ 1,500 rpm with engine at normal operating temperature 
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on December 10, 2018, 11:54:38 AM
So it is based on oil pressure and not on level?


Would make a little sense why it didn't come on right away
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on December 10, 2018, 11:59:29 AM
That is my understanding yes.  Could have been a faulty EOP switch ... or not.  The oil pump could be WAY too good at its' job ... or not.  Many possibilities.

The wiring diagram shows a) normal pressure, b) low pressure, but NO c) high pressure ...

This is a list of DTCs to show you just how far down the food chain input from this switch is

PCM DTC Chart
DTC        Description
P0125    Insufficient Coolant Temp For Closed Loop Fuel Control
P0128    Coolant Thermostat (Coolant Temp Below Thermostat Regulating Temperature)
P0504    Brake Switch A / B Correlation
P0512    Starter Request Circuit
P0532    A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor A Circuit Low
P0533    A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor A Circuit High
P0562    System Voltage Low
P0563    System Voltage High
P0572    Brake Switch A Circuit Low
P0573    Brake Switch A Circuit High
P0602    Powertrain Control Module Programming Error
P0605    Internal Control Module Read Only Memory (ROM) Error
P0620    Generator Control Circuit
P0625    Generator Field Terminal Circuit Low
P0626    Generator Field Terminal Circuit High
P0645    A/C Clutch Relay Control Circuit
P0657    Actuator Supply Voltage A Circuit/Open
P065B    Generator Control Circuit Range/Performance
P06E9    Engine Starter Performance
P0705    Transmission Range Sensor A Circuit (PRNDL Input)
P0706    Transmission Range Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance
P0708    Transmission Range Sensor A Circuit High
P0709    Transmission Range Sensor A Circuit Intermittent
P0710    Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor A Circuit
P0711    Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance
P0712    Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor A Circuit Low
P0713    Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor A Circuit High
P0715    Turbine/Input Shaft Speed Sensor A Circuit
P0717    Turbine/Input Shaft Speed Sensor A Circuit No Signal
P0718    Turbine/Input Shaft Speed Sensor A Circuit Intermittent
P0720    Output Shaft Speed Sensor Circuit
P0721    Output Shaft Speed Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
P0722    Output Shaft Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal
P0729    Gear 6 Incorrect Ratio
P072C    Stuck in Gear 1
P072E    Stuck in Gear 3
P072F    Stuck in Gear 4
P0733    Gear 3 Incorrect Ratio
P0734    Gear 4 Incorrect Ratio
P0735    Gear 5 Incorrect Ratio
P073A    Stuck in Gear 5
P073B    Stuck in Gear 6
P0740    Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit/Open
P0741    Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Performance/Stuck Off
P0742    Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Stuck On
P0743    Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Electrical
P0744    Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Intermittent
P0748    Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical
P0750    Shift Solenoid A
P0751    Shift Solenoid A Performance/Stuck Off
P0752    Shift Solenoid A Stuck On
P0753    Shift Solenoid A Electrical
P0755    Shift Solenoid B
P0756    Shift Solenoid B Performance/Stuck Off
P0757    Shift Solenoid B Stuck On
P0758    Shift Solenoid B Electrical
P0760    Shift Solenoid C
P0761    Shift Solenoid C Performance/Stuck Off
P0762    Shift Solenoid C Stuck On
P0763    Shift Solenoid C Electrical
P0765    Shift Solenoid D
P0766    Shift Solenoid D Performance/Stuck Off
P0767    Shift Solenoid D Stuck On
P0768    Shift Solenoid D Electrical
P0770    Shift Solenoid E
P0771    Shift Solenoid E Performance/Stuck Off
P0772    Shift Solenoid E Stuck On
P0773    Shift Solenoid E Electrical
P0774    Shift Solenoid E Intermittent
P0960    Pressure Control Solenoid A Control Circuit/Open
P0962    Pressure Control Solenoid A Control Circuit Low
P0963    Pressure Control Solenoid A Control Circuit High
P0973    Shift Solenoid A Control Circuit Low
P0974    Shift Solenoid A Control Circuit High
P0976    Shift Solenoid B Control Circuit Low
P0977    Shift Solenoid B Control Circuit High
P0979    Shift Solenoid C Control Circuit Low
P0980    Shift Solenoid C Control Circuit High
P0982    Shift Solenoid D Control Circuit Low
P0983    Shift Solenoid D Control Circuit High
P1285    Cylinder Head Overtemperature Condition
P1299    Cylinder Head Overtemperature Protection Active
P1464    A/C Demand Out Of Self Test Range
P1594    Forced Engine Shutdown - Remote Start System Fault, No Unattended Vehicle Timeout
P1595    Forced Engine Shutdown - Remote Start System Fault, Transmission Range Not In Park Position
P161A    Incorrect Response from Immobilizer Control Module
P1635    Tire/Axle Out of Acceptable Range
P1636    Inductive Signature Chip Communication Error
P1639    Vehicle ID Block Corrupted, Not Programmed
P163E    Transmission Control Module Programming Error
P163F    Transmission ID Block Corrupted, Not Programmed
P1700    Transmission Indeterminate Failure (Failed to Neutral)
P1702    Transmission Range Sensor Circuit Intermittent
P1703    Brake Switch Out Of Self Test Range
P1705    Transmission Range Circuit Not Indicating Park/Neutral During Self Test
P1711    Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Out Of Self Test Range
P1744    Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Performance
P1780    Transmission Control Switch (O/D Cancel) Circuit Out Of Self Test Range
P1783    Transmission Overtemperature Condition
P1910    Reverse Lamp Control Circuit/Open
P193D    Cruise Control Multi-Function Input Signal
P2535    Ignition Switch Run/Start Position Circuit High
P2700    Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Range/Performance
P2701    Transmission Friction Element B Apply Time Range/Performance
P2702    Transmission Friction Element C Apply Time Range/Performance
P2703    Transmission Friction Element D Apply Time Range/Performance
P2704    Transmission Friction Element E Apply Time Range/Performance
P2705    Transmission Friction Element F Apply Time Range/Performance
P2783    Torque Converter Temperature Too High
U0104    Lost Communication With Cruise Control Module
U0129    Lost Communication With Brake System Control Module
U0300    Internal Control Module Software Incompatibility
All Other DTCs    —

Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: FearlessAZ on May 07, 2019, 11:29:55 AM
Well, after lots of fighting with the dealership and back and forth, I decided to give up. Traded in the SHO and got 2015 MKs Ecoboost with all the options (will do another introduction thread).


The dealership just kept claiming they knew they filled it and they weren't responsible. Also kept saying that I wouldn't have made it that far.

Suing them was not an option because in the state of Arizona, in a negligence case, you can't sue for attorneys fees. So basically each lawyer I talked to said it would probably end up costing close to $10k just to go to trial with the dealership.
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SM105K on May 07, 2019, 12:12:15 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on May 07, 2019, 11:29:55 AM
Well, after lots of fighting with the dealership and back and forth, I decided to give up. Traded in the SHO and got 2015 MKs Ecoboost with all the options (will do another introduction thread).


The dealership just kept claiming they knew they filled it and they weren't responsible. Also kept saying that I wouldn't have made it that far.

Suing them was not an option because in the state of Arizona, in a negligence case, you can't sue for attorneys fees. So basically each lawyer I talked to said it would probably end up costing close to $10k just to go to trial with the dealership.

For effs sake.  That is a really crappy situation.  The good thing is, the MKs is an upgrade.....
Title: Re: Random Misfires 2010 NonPP SHO, Diagnosis -- No Oil in Engine
Post by: SHOdded on May 07, 2019, 01:30:50 PM
Royally sucks, can't say this was inevitable knowing the substandard legal options :(. Congrats on the MKS!
EhPortal 1.39.5 © 2024, WebDev