I'm very confident I can replace both turbos in my garage but just wanted some encouragement (hopefully). I know the rear sub-frame will need to be lowered slightly if I can't find patience. What else should I expect? Thank you and much appreciated!
I cant comment on the rear turbo but I did the front one. simple hand tools. I pulled bumper, fans, rad/intercooler(comes out as one) then there was all kinds of room -> way easier than it sounds lol. But you may only need to pull fans. Don't over bend the flex joint on the downpipes cuz they will break.
New turbo did not have mounting brackets, updated design?. seems like alot of stress on a sheet metal manifold?
Quote from: geophb on July 30, 2018, 11:58:16 AM
I cant comment on the rear turbo but I did the front one. simple hand tools. I pulled bumper, fans, rad/intercooler(comes out as one) then there was all kinds of room -> way easier than it sounds lol. But you may only need to pull fans. Don't over bend the flex joint on the downpipes cuz they will break.
New turbo did not have mounting brackets, updated design?. seems like alot of stress on a sheet metal manifold?
Yes, they updated the design and the newer turbos don't have mouting brackets... the cast iron manifolds will hold them fine.
Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 30, 2018, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: geophb on July 30, 2018, 11:58:16 AM
I cant comment on the rear turbo but I did the front one. simple hand tools. I pulled bumper, fans, rad/intercooler(comes out as one) then there was all kinds of room -> way easier than it sounds lol. But you may only need to pull fans. Don't over bend the flex joint on the downpipes cuz they will break.
New turbo did not have mounting brackets, updated design?. seems like alot of stress on a sheet metal manifold?
Yes, they updated the design and the newer turbos don't have mouting brackets... the cast iron manifolds will hold them fine.
I honestly don't think there cast, which is why i was wondering. It looked like sheetmetal to me
FWIW. . . . . (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/83d6a445132f34d59e20491808d65a67.jpg)
Throwdown with Mike K. Now playing.
When I replaced my ptu it also called to lower the sub frame for removal.
I just removed the lower front engine
Mount(dog bone ) and used a ratchet strap to pull the engine forward towards the radiator.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/de99ca7dd758419bb3b3409ab44b6776.jpg)
This is the bracket, you can see the bolt compared to where it's supposed to mount.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/8f975d00bba3601f709487447620a190.jpg)
Quote from: SHOdded on July 30, 2018, 02:16:49 PM
Throwdown with Mike K. Now playing.
Negative...they feel like cast iron to me so I just assumed they were along with the rough exterior and rusting... but I defer to Mikes post.. Stainless Steel/Steel it is... lol
You know what they say when one ASSumes there BJ.
LOL. ****Snickers.
Love you dumpling.
Sooo, are there two different exhaust manifold designs? I seem to recall some reports of the inner wall on the design that Mike has pictured may be prone to degrading/flaking and taking the turbo's out. If that's true it might be worth taking a good look any time you're in that area of the engine.
First of all, thank you to everyone who replied :notworthy: I am new to the Ecoboost world coming from the diesel community. Belonging to DieselPlace.com I certainly appreciate the wisdom that exists in members of forums like this one.
Sounds like the rear does not need much more clearance to be removed.
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 30, 2018, 04:56:10 PM
You know what they say when one ASSumes there BJ.
LOL. ****Snickers.
Love you dumpling.
Ha! Just to throw some oil in the mix (can't make dumplings without it) this article... which is fantastic also had LME calling out the manifolds as cast-iron....
https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-stories/engine/ecoboost-build-600-plus-horsepower-from-a-livernois-built-3-5-v6/
Wonder if that is your motor in the article?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: SierraTBD on July 30, 2018, 09:13:58 PM
First of all, thank you to everyone who replied :notworthy: I am new to the Ecoboost world coming from the diesel community. Belonging to DieselPlace.com I certainly appreciate the wisdom that exists in members of forums like this one.
Sounds like the rear does not need much more clearance to be removed.
The front is reported as easy. The rear is a PIA from those that have done it from a creeper...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 30, 2018, 10:57:07 PM
Ha! Just to throw some oil in the mix (can't make dumplings without it) this article... which is fantastic also had LME calling out the manifolds as cast-iron....
https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-stories/engine/ecoboost-build-600-plus-horsepower-from-a-livernois-built-3-5-v6/ (https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-stories/engine/ecoboost-build-600-plus-horsepower-from-a-livernois-built-3-5-v6/)
Wonder if that is your motor in the article?
This would be correct in an
F150 application. Their manifolds are different from the transverse applications.
https://www.brewcityboost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/crp-manifolds-2011-2012.pdf (https://www.brewcityboost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/crp-manifolds-2011-2012.pdf)
Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 30, 2018, 10:58:17 PM
Quote from: SierraTBD on July 30, 2018, 09:13:58 PM
First of all, thank you to everyone who replied :notworthy: I am new to the Ecoboost world coming from the diesel community. Belonging to DieselPlace.com I certainly appreciate the wisdom that exists in members of forums like this one.
Sounds like the rear does not need much more clearance to be removed.
The front is reported as easy. The rear is a PIA from those that have done it from a creeper...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A PIA for sure but definitely still doable right?
So we replaced both Front and Rear With ATPs (from a lift Tho)
and prior to doing the New Engine Swap........
and it was not that Tough, BUT we do not remember what all
has to come out (not much tho) SOO Doing it from the floor, YEA
it can be done, It is going to be a PITA... :angry1:
Quote from: irondoor19 on August 02, 2018, 12:46:58 PM
So we replaced both Front and Rear With ATPs (from a lift Tho)
and prior to doing the New Engine Swap........
and it was not that Tough, BUT we do not remember what all
has to come out (not much tho) SOO Doing it from the floor, YEA
it can be done, It is going to be a PITA... :angry1:
Well I started this tonight..
Got the rear cat out tonight. Definitely some play and bad seals.
Can someone tell me how to disconnect the oil feed lines from the block? Definitely looks like a simple clip lock but wanted to double check. Thank you!
Yikes! Live in rust belt?
Hows loose is your rear turbo wastegate flapper without the arm connected if you dont mind? Mine is rattling, just tryin to compare.
Quote from: geophb on August 30, 2018, 12:03:58 PM
Yikes! Live in rust belt?
Hows loose is your rear turbo wastegate flapper without the arm connected if you dont mind? Mine is rattling, just tryin to compare.
Southeast Minnesota so you betcha on the rust belt! Luckily this is not my vehicle.
It is loose but not significantly. Same with the exhaust wheel on the turbo. But it is obviously bad. Should be dropping the turbos this weekend.
So when was someone going to tell me these are water-cooled turbo bearings?!!?
I think most modern turbo cars are now H20 and oil ?
Quote from: Macgyver on September 02, 2018, 02:33:01 PM
I think most modern turbo cars are now H20 and oil ?
Coming from the diesel community I was unaware and will have to do more reading. The front one is out and carnage below..
Believe me, not the worst we have seen, LOL. Glad you were able to get it the heck outta there, tho!
Quote from: SHOdded on September 02, 2018, 08:16:48 PM
Believe me, not the worst we have seen, LOL. Glad you were able to get it the heck outta there, tho!
Four bolts left on the rear now. The oil feed and three exhaust manifold bolts.
Quote from: glock-coma on July 30, 2018, 03:04:17 PM
When I replaced my ptu it also called to lower the sub frame for removal.
I just removed the lower front engine
Mount(dog bone ) and used a ratchet strap to pull the engine forward towards the radiator.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/de99ca7dd758419bb3b3409ab44b6776.jpg)
This is the bracket, you can see the bolt compared to where it's supposed to mount.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/8f975d00bba3601f709487447620a190.jpg)
Just to confirm, you removed the entire dog bone mount? Does it need to be supported while removing?
Quote from: SierraTBD on September 02, 2018, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: glock-coma on July 30, 2018, 03:04:17 PM
When I replaced my ptu it also called to lower the sub frame for removal.
I just removed the lower front engine
Mount(dog bone ) and used a ratchet strap to pull the engine forward towards the radiator.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/de99ca7dd758419bb3b3409ab44b6776.jpg)
This is the bracket, you can see the bolt compared to where it's supposed to mount.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/8f975d00bba3601f709487447620a190.jpg)
Just to confirm, you removed the entire dog bone mount? Does it need to be supported while removing?
I just unbolted the engine side of the mount but removal of the entire dog bone will not negatively affect anything.
The engine will still be supported by the cradle mounts so I did not use any other supports.
The dog bone only limits front to back engine movement.
Quote from: glock-coma on September 02, 2018, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: SierraTBD on September 02, 2018, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: glock-coma on July 30, 2018, 03:04:17 PM
When I replaced my ptu it also called to lower the sub frame for removal.
I just removed the lower front engine
Mount(dog bone ) and used a ratchet strap to pull the engine forward towards the radiator.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/de99ca7dd758419bb3b3409ab44b6776.jpg)
This is the bracket, you can see the bolt compared to where it's supposed to mount.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/8f975d00bba3601f709487447620a190.jpg)
Just to confirm, you removed the entire dog bone mount? Does it need to be supported while removing?
I just unbolted the engine side of the mount but removal of the entire dog bone will not negatively affect anything.
The engine will still be supported by the cradle mounts so I did not use any other supports.
The dog bone only limits front to back engine movement.
Got it, safe to say it's only a couple inches gained?
Quote from: SierraTBD on September 02, 2018, 08:44:58 PM
Quote from: glock-coma on September 02, 2018, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: SierraTBD on September 02, 2018, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: glock-coma on July 30, 2018, 03:04:17 PM
When I replaced my ptu it also called to lower the sub frame for removal.
I just removed the lower front engine
Mount(dog bone ) and used a ratchet strap to pull the engine forward towards the radiator.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/de99ca7dd758419bb3b3409ab44b6776.jpg)
This is the bracket, you can see the bolt compared to where it's supposed to mount.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/8f975d00bba3601f709487447620a190.jpg)
Just to confirm, you removed the entire dog bone mount? Does it need to be supported while removing?
I just unbolted the engine side of the mount but removal of the entire dog bone will not negatively affect anything.
The engine will still be supported by the cradle mounts so I did not use any other supports.
The dog bone only limits front to back engine movement.
Got it, safe to say it's only a couple inches gained?
Yes, but it definitely was needed.
I'm really not even sure how the old PTU came out without doing it lol.
Well hopefully it helps as much as it did with the PTU as it does with this rear turbo. Feels like over engineering........
I can tell you I just did this same job last week. We dropped the cradle but I was also at a shop on a lift. Pulling made getting the turbos out 100 times easier. No room to get that rear turbo out period.
Quote from: shoNoff on September 02, 2018, 10:25:57 PM
I can tell you I just did this same job last week. We dropped the cradle but I was also at a shop on a lift. Pulling made getting the turbos out 100 times easier. No room to get that rear turbo out period.
That just seems like such overkill considering. I can only imagine the laundry list that needs to be done to drop that subframe..
Yea on your back I agree. But honestly I got to look at everything. And we replaced every oil and coolant line. Made doing the job 100 times easier. But we also decided from the get go to drop the entire thing. To be honest I bet it didn't take much longer on a lift dropping the subframe
Quote from: shoNoff on September 02, 2018, 10:47:40 PM
Yea on your back I agree. But honestly I got to look at everything. And we replaced every oil and coolant line. Made doing the job 100 times easier. But we also decided from the get go to drop the entire thing. To be honest I bet it didn't take much longer on a lift dropping the subframe
Brakes, steering, suspension, electrical, cooling, and everything in between. Definitely not worth all that..
Entire job took us 9/10 hours. Ford pays 10.5 flat rate.
Quote from: shoNoff on September 02, 2018, 10:58:38 PM
Entire job took us 9/10 hours. Ford pays 10.5 flat rate.
Feeling much better today, was able to gain clear access to all three turbo mounting bolts and oil feed from the top. After rotating the engine and removing the factory engine lift point everything opened up. Just need a longer impact extension (10") and longer impact T45 from HF and will be all set. Lots of heat and penetrating coming fluid this week. Now to enjoy the holiday..
Big day yesterday, everything is out..
Awesome good work man. That has to be a bear to do on your back.
Quote from: shoNoff on September 07, 2018, 01:16:35 PM
Awesome good work man. That has to be a bear to do on your back.
The oil feed and exhaust bolts were the worst from the top side. Altogether removed the majority of the intake, EGR (I think?), shock mount cross over bracket, and loosened wiper cowl (couldn't get the wiper arms to come off ironically). On the underside I removed the front dog bone completely, loosened up the rear and pulled forward with a ratchet strap. Worked like a dream and I give all credit to glock-coma for that. Obviously drained the oil and removed the oil filter.
My question is now what other maintenance should be done? Should I look at potential fluid buildup in the intercooler or changing PTU fluid? Any advice much appreciated as always. Not my vehicle but would rather address the other areas now rather than later.
I just swapped out my turbos as well over the last few days. I pulled the axle instead of dropping the frame. I changed all the fluids ptu, rear, rad, oil. I have my own issues upon completion. Did it all on my back (have a tube chassis on my car lift)
Also not an expert here this is advice I received on my tread check your intercooler for buildup, that's tomorrows project I also cleaned all oil from tubings
def PTU and intercooler. But also regular checks for pooling oil in the turbo tract. Might want to replace the PCV Valve assembly also as it is available as a separate part. Use only a quality, low volatility full synthetic engine oil, especially if you see anything more than misting in the tract at any time. While it is not a "fix", it at least is a major assist. A catchcan from JLT or RXP might also be on the table in that case.
Quote from: SierraTBD on September 01, 2018, 07:34:59 PM
So when was someone going to tell me these are water-cooled turbo bearings?!!?
Seriously? THAT could make a cooler thermostat more important.
Only if the fans are programmed to take advantage.
What about torque specs for everything? Not too worried about it but would be nice to have some numbers. Thanks!
Torque specs are to late for me but I did it by feel. By feel I mean I roughly knew how hard the bolts were to take out and my car was spotless no rust no grime if my odometer didn't say 150k I'd think the car had 20k on it. So I reinstalled everything by feel plus a weee not extra :)
Let the criticism begin lol
HTH
Will go by feel and then slight extra. Hasn't failed in the past but coolant lines can be finicky. Under or over tighten and they leak. Hopefully will have time Monday night to start reassembly finally. Got everything unboxed and looks correct. Wanting to wrap this up in a week or so. Had to unexpectedly drag around the equipment trailer for 300+ miles this week..
I had to give the coolant lines on mine a little extra lovin several days after I did my turbos. They started leaking just enough to leave a couple of drips on the floor overnight. Been fine since then.
Everything is put back together, will add fluids and prime engine tomorrow. Typically I would pull the ECM fuse or crank sensor but am looking for some proven knowledge specifically regarding the SHO. As always much appreciated, this has been quite the learning experience!
Good luck!
Quote from: SHOdded on September 20, 2018, 12:49:37 AM
Good luck!
Must have some words of wisdom, did you pull the fuel pump relay?
I don't have 1st hand experience in this case, but I would pull both the fuel pump relay(s) and the COP fuse(s) to be sure there is no fuel OR spark.
I see fuel pump and PCM are on the same fuse/relay, so that may be a no go. May have to disconnect the wiring directly. The COPs however are on their own fuse/relay.
I believe there is information from when people have done compression tests that would be useful in this case.
Quote from: SHOdded on September 20, 2018, 07:17:20 AM
I don't have 1st hand experience in this case, but I would pull both the fuel pump relay(s) and the COP fuse(s) to be sure there is no fuel OR spark.
I see fuel pump and PCM are on the same fuse/relay, so that may be a no go. May have to disconnect the wiring directly. The COPs however are on their own fuse/relay.
I believe there is information from when people have done compression tests that would be useful in this case.
I will do some digging, fuel should be disabled because the pump connector behind rear passenger seat is disconnected..
How about unhooking the vacuum lines so the wastegate stays open no matter what?
I don't think all that is necessary. Let the PCM do its' job. Just won't have fuel/spark.
Quote from: SHOdded on September 20, 2018, 08:19:59 AM
I don't think all that is necessary. Let the PCM do its' job. Just won't have fuel/spark.
Looks like under hood fuse #48 will disable the ignition coils..
Just found this too...
Car is on the trailer and ready to go back to it's owner. Really glad to be done with this. Thank you to everyone for their input, much appreciated!!
Good luck, hope the owner is happy with the results :)
Quote from: SHOdded on September 21, 2018, 10:45:58 AM
Good luck, hope the owner is happy with the results :)
The car still needs brake work and the P0016 engine code addressed.
P0016. Ugh.
Quote from: SHOdded on September 21, 2018, 10:48:46 AM
P0016. Ugh.
Exactly, it had the code before I started and explained that was a much bigger task potentially.