Experienced an issue in the last few miles of my drive to work this morning.
it was 4 degrees this morning so i let the car warm up for 5 minutes and headed out. ran normally for most of the way but towards the end of the drive i could feel a slight stumble. i had the heater on and there was a VERY strong odor coming through. smelt like something burning but can't put my finger on exactly what.
parked the car and left it running and looked around the engine bay. car was smoking from the rear bank and there was oil around the back valve cover. oil pooled out of the rear BOV.(see pic).
let it sit for a few hours. went out and checked oil level, it was almost a quart low. started it again without any trouble then it began smoking out of the tail pipes pretty heavy. engine bay was still smoking and car was chugging a bit and idle bouncing.
i could also hear a burping/slurping sound coming from what sounded like the air box. pulled the cover and it was dry. coolant level normal.
no dtc
no misfires registered
what could it be?
blown rear turbo passing oil by the looks of the rear BOV?
popped cylinder?-prob not or i'd have misfires.
i'm all ears guys!
thanks(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/c5e4befc4f1f5b269f0305a6f88f18d4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/b1f33d975d759d25fc8afa1589355dc0.png)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oHJ-wIAPN4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oHJ-wIAPN4&feature=youtu.be)
link to a video of smoke from exhaust. it got worse than this the longer i let it run
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Don't Drive it for the time being IMO! Check the OCC lines to make sure there not frozen!
Check the PCV system Oil Sep! Check the Oil Cap ? Hopefully it doesn't look like pudding! Check for Codes! Z
Quote from: ZSHO on January 16, 2018, 12:38:12 PM
Don't Drive it for the time being IMO! Check the OCC lines to make sure there not frozen!
Check the PCV system Oil Sep! Check the oil Cap ? Z
yep i'm going to check the occ lines on my lunch. i guess a check valve could have failed too.
would any of that cause this though?
no i didn't look at the oil cap yet. ill do that too.
thanks for the suggestions
no codes present as of now.
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 16, 2018, 12:44:29 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 16, 2018, 12:38:12 PM
Don't Drive it for the time being IMO! Check the OCC lines to make sure there not frozen!
Check the PCV system Oil Sep! Check the oil Cap ? Z
yep i'm going to check the occ lines on my lunch. i guess a check valve could have failed too.
would any of that cause this though?
no i didn't look at the oil cap yet. ill do that too.
thanks for the suggestions
no codes present as of now.
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I'm hoping its not the rear Turbo! especially the Oil Cap pudding of death!
It could be oil inside the crankcase! Check the above mentioned!
I'm hoping you have Warranty! Best of luck. Z
Quote from: ZSHO on January 16, 2018, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 16, 2018, 12:44:29 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 16, 2018, 12:38:12 PM
Don't Drive it for the time being IMO! Check the OCC lines to make sure there not frozen!
Check the PCV system Oil Sep! Check the oil Cap ? Z
yep i'm going to check the occ lines on my lunch. i guess a check valve could have failed too.
would any of that cause this though?
no i didn't look at the oil cap yet. ill do that too.
thanks for the suggestions
no codes present as of now.
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I'm hoping its not the rear Turbo! especially the Oil Cap pudding of death!
Check the above mentioned! I'm hoping you have Warranty! Best of luck. Z
can you elaborate on the puddling of death? i'm not familiar.
i do have a warranty. will flash back to stock today and disconnect battery.
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 16, 2018, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 16, 2018, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 16, 2018, 12:44:29 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 16, 2018, 12:38:12 PM
Don't Drive it for the time being IMO! Check the OCC lines to make sure there not frozen!
Check the PCV system Oil Sep! Check the oil Cap ? Z
yep i'm going to check the occ lines on my lunch. i guess a check valve could have failed too.
would any of that cause this though?
no i didn't look at the oil cap yet. ill do that too.
thanks for the suggestions
no codes present as of now.
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I'm hoping its not the rear Turbo! especially the Oil Cap pudding of death!
Check the above mentioned! I'm hoping you have Warranty! Best of luck. Z
can you elaborate on the puddling of death? i'm not familiar.
i do have a warranty. will flash back to stock today and disconnect battery.
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The worst case scenario is this!! Dont mean to scare you! Z
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71itwBP7akA#)
Right off the bat, sounds to me like a bad oil separator. They do go bad in these cars. I'd pull it and see if there's excessive oil in there.
If there is, I'd replace that and the PCV valve and go from there.
Def pull the hose off the rear turbo, a must in a situation like this. Ford has already acknowledged the valve cover / pcv separator issue, fingers crossed it is just that ...
pmezo may have hit it on the head. this is what I found. milky moisture at the separator. Oil cap and dipstick were totally clean.OCC lines seem clear and absolutely nothing came out of the catch can when I tried to drain it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/dcf2534946f3c1baf1a2413abf097dea.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/30ee55f26395e9dd90c5ed95388b0826.jpg)
The only other thing I'm wondering is if a bad check valve at the OCC would cause this?
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 16, 2018, 01:40:51 PM
pmezo may have hit it on the head. this is what I found. milky moisture at the separator. Oil cap and dipstick were totally clean.OCC lines seem clear and absolutely nothing came out of the catch can when I tried to drain it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/dcf2534946f3c1baf1a2413abf097dea.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/30ee55f26395e9dd90c5ed95388b0826.jpg)
The only other thing I'm wondering is if a bad check valve at the OCC would cause this?
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That's moisture mixing with the oil. Looks like you've isolated where the issue is assuming the rest of your oil doesn't look like that milky mess because then you'll have much bigger issues.
Change the oil separator and PCV, clean everything up, and you should (hopefully) be good to go.
This is oddly similar to my oil smoking but mine was not to this extent. I think you can actually take apart the oil separator but the oring might go bad once you do. Wonder if it is actual oil sludge in the baffle. My OCC has been filling up with water in these low temps.
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 16, 2018, 01:40:51 PM
pmezo may have hit it on the head. this is what I found. milky moisture at the separator. Oil cap and dipstick were totally clean.OCC lines seem clear and absolutely nothing came out of the catch can when I tried to drain it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/dcf2534946f3c1baf1a2413abf097dea.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/30ee55f26395e9dd90c5ed95388b0826.jpg)
The only other thing I'm wondering is if a bad check valve at the OCC would cause this?
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Looks like the oil separator is gone after 2014 SHO models.
I changed my oil separator and PCV... oil/smoke issues went away.
Quote from: polskifacet on January 16, 2018, 02:08:01 PM
This is oddly similar to my oil smoking but mine was not to this extent. I think you can actually take apart the oil separator but the oring might go bad once you do. Wonder if it is actual oil sludge in the baffle. My OCC has been filling up with water in these low temps.
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 16, 2018, 01:40:51 PM
pmezo may have hit it on the head. this is what I found. milky moisture at the separator. Oil cap and dipstick were totally clean.OCC lines seem clear and absolutely nothing came out of the catch can when I tried to drain it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/dcf2534946f3c1baf1a2413abf097dea.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/30ee55f26395e9dd90c5ed95388b0826.jpg)
The only other thing I'm wondering is if a bad check valve at the OCC would cause this?
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did you have to replace your oil separator or was it a different issue?
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I was having smoke on decel after being on the throttle.
Changed the PCV valve and separator... added UPR catch can. No more smoke.
Quote from: Gray Brick on January 16, 2018, 06:29:31 PM
I was having smoke on decel after being on the throttle.
Changed the PCV valve and separator... added UPR catch can. No more smoke.
just read through your other thread. thanks for updating. so you just replaced the oil separator and not the valve cover correct?
i pulled off the separator and it looked far worse than yours did. all sorts of milky crud in there and the pcv valve. ill get pics of it later. picking up a separator from the dealership now
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 16, 2018, 07:07:58 PM
Quote from: Gray Brick on January 16, 2018, 06:29:31 PM
I was having smoke on decel after being on the throttle.
Changed the PCV valve and separator... added UPR catch can. No more smoke.
just read through your other thread. thanks for updating. so you just replaced the oil separator and not the valve cover correct?
i pulled off the separator and it looked far worse than yours did. all sorts of milky crud in there and the pcv valve. ill get pics of it later. picking up a separator from the dealership now
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The very reason i was curious to know! Z :)
new separator on and problem solved! thanks to all who commented to help the diagnosis. once again the fine folks here have proved more than helpful.
here's the old separator. . nasty.
blew oil all over the rear of the engine bay
just got done cleaning stuff up and spraying down the map sensors. ill be doing a more thorough job on my upcoming weekend.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180117/9b7fb7a9d5c4e131790f1c877ec6dcd8.jpg)
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Interesting...Seems like the OEM separator works really well until full....I've always wondered why people install catch cans on these since they are basically equipped with one.
Seems like this should be a maintenance item.
Wonder if the 2.0 ecoboost has one?
Awesome. Great to hear.
Second AJP's call to make this a regular maintenance item.
Before I saw this I also took off my separator. Looks to me like the oil drainback was clogged. I simple greened it for about an hour (fill, let sit in simple green, shake, rinse, repeat). There is another check valve or valves inside the separator. I blew and sucked the different holes (set my self up on this one lol) after cleaning and seemed like it was working properly. I also had about 1/3 of my JTL catch can filled with oil sludge which i had to clean with brake cleaner and a scrub with paper (I just cleaned it last week!!!!!).
Before this I also put a breather on the clean side and was getting some PCV smell through the vents on idle which is weird because it pulls a strong vacuum @ idle. Will continue to monitor, hoping we figured it out!!!
For those of us newer to the platform can someone show us what/where this catchcan is? Maybe a less zoomed in picture so we can see? Sounds like it is possible to clean/empty it given Polshifacet's post, I want to make it part of my oil change routine moving forward.
Quote from: lamrith on January 17, 2018, 11:04:07 AM
For those of us newer to the platform can someone show us what/where this catchcan is? Maybe a less zoomed in picture so we can see? Sounds like it is possible to clean/empty it given Polshifacet's post, I want to make it part of my oil change routine moving forward.
It's the black box on the rear valve cover
Quote from: lamrith on January 17, 2018, 11:04:07 AM
For those of us newer to the platform can someone show us what/where this catchcan is? Maybe a less zoomed in picture so we can see? Sounds like it is possible to clean/empty it given Polshifacet's post, I want to make it part of my oil change routine moving forward.
Great to hear the Awesome news Colorado-SHOBro. Z :)
Highlighted in
BLUE. Z
(https://i.imgur.com/ODxffh9h.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/9RoCuMah.jpg?2)
Thanks guys!
Quote from: polskifacet on January 16, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
Looks like the oil separator is gone after 2014 SHO models.
The 2015-MY+ has an updated built in internal oil Sep inside the valve cover. IIRC. Z
Quote from: ZSHO on January 17, 2018, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: polskifacet on January 16, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
Looks like the oil separator is gone after 2014 SHO models.
The 2015-MY+ has an updated built in internal oil Sep inside the valve cover. IIRC. Z
would be even worse if it failed then!! lol. but hopefully they've figured out a more durable design.
i considered cleaning mine after it was off the car since i didn't have the new one yet. i even tried to take it apart to no avail. in the end i'm glad i replaced it. there's less smoke out of the tailpipe than i've ever experienced . . even on cold startup. i would highly advise anyone to add this to the maintenance schedule.
also Z. . can you update the title of this thread to include "oil separator problem" or something of that nature. that way users in the future can search it out easily.
thanks
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 17, 2018, 12:40:28 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 17, 2018, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: polskifacet on January 16, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
Looks like the oil separator is gone after 2014 SHO models.
The 2015-MY+ has an updated built in internal oil Sep inside the valve cover. IIRC. Z
would be even worse if it failed then!! lol. but hopefully they've figured out a more durable design.
i considered cleaning mine after it was off the car since i didn't have the new one yet. i even tried to take it apart to no avail. in the end i'm glad i replaced it. there's less smoke out of the tailpipe than i've ever experienced . . even on cold startup. i would highly advise anyone to add this to the maintenance schedule.
also Z. . can you update the title of this thread to include "oil separator problem" or something of that nature. that way users in the future can search it out easily.
thanks
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Will Do! BTW it deserved a Sticky! Z :)
Interesting! So it sounds like it "can" be cleaned? Or is that not recommended. I'm guessing a new one can't cost that much.
Quote from: ecoboostsho on January 17, 2018, 02:56:49 PM
Interesting! So it sounds like it "can" be cleaned? Or is that not recommended. I'm guessing a new one can't cost that much.
It is between $60 and $80. I don't see why you can't just clean it. I was able to check if the internal check valve was holding so good to go. I'm sure some kind of schedule is much more effective then when you already have an issue. Clean it, it doesn't cost anything and effort level of 1.
if your vehicle is low mileage(mine was @45k when it gave out) then cleaning at a regular interval certainly won't hurt. however, if yours fails like mine did the car is borderline undriveable and it could leave you stranded. then even worse your at the mercy of a local dealer having it in stock. in my case there was 1 dealer in the state that had one and it was a 45min drive to get the part and was 95$ after tax.
ultimately i would recommend replacing the component then start a cleaning cycle.
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so yeah I just pulled this out of my intercooler after doing a few WOT pulls and noticing oil blown all over the engine bay from the rear BOV and wastegate mod. wow!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180118/149d39de0d3e897cf2d83a19208abec1.jpg)
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and this was out of the catch can. obviously it was overworked since the oil separator took a crap.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180118/42072d51c9e383e04892f74209464d08.jpg)
So the failed pcv oil separator caused the intercooler to fill up with oil too!? Damn goes to show how important that piece is
On a side note makes me think how ridiculous it is to drill a hole in the intercooler to allow the condensated oil to escape which is really a symptom of another problem and not the root problem...not to mention an oily messy weep hole and potential loss of warranty.
Would never have known you had another problem if the intercooler was drilled😂😂😂
So you mean you should really drill down till you get to the real cause? Seriously though, this would be great if it truly addresses the issue. Pretty easy fix. Maybe even the F150 would benefit.
i hear ya brad. i would have never thought that failed component would result in such a pronounced issue. i guess i know why i was a quart low on oil now!!! seems to be a theme that when a part breaks on me it REALLY BREAKS! i don't think most cars would experience the oil consumption that i did on a failure.
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Quote from: ZSHO on January 18, 2018, 07:42:20 PM
Here's the repair work order for reference from a few years ago which in my case replaced a leaky rear valve cover plus Oil Sep and PCV valve which was replaced under warranty as per TSB 14-0196 to correct the concern !
BTW found evidence of oil in the crankcase vent oil Separator and yes smoke was coming from exhaust tailpipe! Z
(https://i.imgur.com/5BskJlph.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/AAl7TASh.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/XBYdZ8Wh.jpg)
2013+ TSB
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3836.msg79067.html#msg79067 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3836.msg79067.html#msg79067)
2010-2012 TSB
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,496.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,496.0.html)
^ in regards to this i find it odd that the part that failed on my car is the same part # that is put in on the tsb and the same part# i replaced my bad one with. that tells me it's the same design so im not sure how it's a "fix" in the long term unless the 13+ originally came with a different oil separator than the one referenced in the TSB.
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Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 18, 2018, 08:24:17 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 18, 2018, 07:42:20 PM
Here's the repair work order for reference from a few years ago which in my case replaced a leaky rear valve cover plus Oil Sep and PCV valve which was replaced under warranty as per TSB 14-0196 to correct the concern !
BTW found evidence of oil in the crankcase vent oil Separator and yes smoke was coming from exhaust tailpipe! Z
(https://i.imgur.com/5BskJlph.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/AAl7TASh.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/XBYdZ8Wh.jpg)
2013+ TSB
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3836.msg79067.html#msg79067 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3836.msg79067.html#msg79067)
2010-2012 TSB
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,496.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,496.0.html)
^ in regards to this i find it odd that the part that failed on my car is the same part # that is put in on the tsb and the same part# i replaced my bad one with. that tells me it's the same design so im not sure how it's a "fix" in the long term unless the 13+ originally came with a different oil separator than the one referenced in the TSB.
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There is no long-term or permanent FIX IMO!
There are unfortunately new revisions-supercession updated parts which can be downright confusing to say the least as parts goes! Dunno! But truly glad you were able to fix your car without a hitch and luck was on your side my friend.
What type of oil are you running ?
I would say staying on TOP of your vehicle maintenance aspect is crucial and goes a long way and should be treated under (severe conditions) as far as maintenance goes on this platform especially if tuned! just some food for thought! Z
Thanks Z i'm thankful it was a easy(albeit very inconvenient)fix.
I'm running amsoil 0w-30 and am relatively OCD with my maintenance schedule.
Right now my concern is getting the remnants of oil residue out of my intercooler. Need to find that thread from the guy that took off the drivers side turbo hose and used cleaning solution to wash things out.
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on January 18, 2018, 09:37:11 PM
Thanks Z i'm thankful it was a easy(albeit very inconvenient)fix.
I'm running amsoil 0w-30 and am relatively OCD with my maintenance schedule.
Right now my concern is getting the remnants of oil residue out of my intercooler. Need to find that thread from the guy that took off the drivers side turbo hose and used cleaning solution to wash things out.
NP! Z :) CAC- HOW TO
Courtesy of ShoBoat! Best of luck. Z
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3056.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3056.0.html)