Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Performance => Topic started by: StealBlueSho on May 04, 2018, 01:12:12 PM

Title: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 04, 2018, 01:12:12 PM
So I have been waiting to get my hands on one of these for QUITE some time. On my 2010 I ended up going with the Alky Kit to resolve fuel pressure issues since the HPFP upgrades were not available. However, on my virgin 2016 I decided to pull the trigger. 

A BIG shout out to Cody over at LMS for answering my questions, putting up with my canceling, then calling back to place the order, and the 5 different tune revisions I asked for. Then for answering a couple quick questions for the installation.

Installation was super easy, if you follow my how to on the HPFP replacement, its pretty much spot on... a couple changes...

1: You will need to bend the high pressure fuel line SLIGHTLY up so it will line up with the new pump
2: The electrical plug needs to be unbound from the taped up wiring harness. This will include cutting back the tape to free up the plug so it can reach the new pump.

Those are the ONLY two differences between putting in a stock pump and the Firestorm pump. Silly easy..

Initial datalogging shows MUCH more stable fuel pressure, fuel pressure is holding desired where as before it was dropping well below 1000psi which is downright dangerous if sustain, which is was.  The car drives really realy well.. smooth, pulls through the RPM range smooth.. very happy with this purchase and support from LMS.

(https://i.imgur.com/TDKrgAdh.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180505/fc4d8b01647f68d3c224962a861258cc.jpg)
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: ZSHO on May 04, 2018, 01:24:36 PM
Congrats there Bud! I'm a tad Jelly starring @ that beauty..  :thumb:  I hope it proves to be worthy and then some...
I'm anxious to see some actual time-slips @ the track.  Best of luck.  Z
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: hawkeye93 on May 04, 2018, 02:44:51 PM
Quote from: BJSHO on May 04, 2018, 01:12:12 PM
Installation was super easy, if you follow my how to on the HPFP replacement, its pretty much spot on... a couple changes...

1: You will need to bend the high pressure fuel line SLIGHTLY up so it will line up with the new pump
2: The electrical plug needs to be unbound from the taped up wiring harness. This will include cutting back the tape to free up the plug so it can reach the new pump.

Nice, I like it.  Is this just the Xtreme-DI (http://www.xtreme-di.com/index_files/XDI_HPFP_SHO.htm) HPFP rebranded as Livernois?  The XDI installation video makes the same note about bending the HP fuel line.  XDI apparently includes a wiring extension to reach the pump electrical socket.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqnewM691Fs#)
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 04, 2018, 02:59:12 PM
Thanks!!! No, they are different pumps.


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on May 04, 2018, 03:09:29 PM
Why is 1000 psi dangerous if it holds AFR?
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 04, 2018, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 04, 2018, 03:09:29 PM
Why is 1000 psi dangerous if it holds AFR?

There was an article about DI motors and blow back into the injectors when cylinder pressure exceeds what the injectors pressures are. But besides that, I have run extremely low pressures before ~700psi and the motor runs like crap, the ecu starts to close up the throttle, and it doesn't perform well...

Then there is also the whole discussion about properly atomizing the fuel in order to help cool the cylinders to prevent knock...

I can dig up all the articles, but its not just about AFR's.

Most tuners don't like seeing anything below 1500psi for safety reasons in any event...


I am sure you have seen and experienced the issues with low fuel pressure while you were nailing down that E85 tune with Brad.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on May 04, 2018, 04:59:36 PM


I do wonder if 1450 is the safe threshold as far as backpressure is concerned....that is the psi the max flow is rated for both Injector and pump.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on May 04, 2018, 05:02:03 PM
Z, I wouldn't be jelly if the appearance cover doesn't fit anymore.  LOL.

Mike, the new pump looks great, and glad it is functioning as intended.  Now you can breathe easy!
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 04, 2018, 05:02:30 PM
FYI... the cover DOES fit back on....


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on May 04, 2018, 05:03:01 PM
That IS a change then.  Doubly awesome upgrade!
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on May 04, 2018, 06:42:20 PM
That's good because it's against Federal law to remove it....i wish I was kidding but I just read that in the cmax OM....wtf?
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on May 04, 2018, 06:47:42 PM
:o :o :D  It's against federal law to breathe LOL.  But then you have a hybrid.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Gray Brick on May 04, 2018, 08:05:55 PM
What is the difference between the Xtreme and Livernois pumps?
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 04, 2018, 09:39:40 PM
Quote from: Gray Brick on May 04, 2018, 08:05:55 PM
What is the difference between the Xtreme and Livernois pumps?

Two different developers... in all honesty.. I am not sure there is much difference? The entry level pump from XDI claims 35% more flow while the LMS Firestorm pump claims 40%...

The LMS pump is $200 cheaper as well.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Macgyver on May 04, 2018, 09:58:00 PM
So what is the limit of this pump then HP wise? Approximately. I get that this saves your motor for sure and is worth the money.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 04, 2018, 10:10:08 PM
Tricky question... LMS won't tune past the limits the drive train which they feel is about 450awhp/450awtq on a stock block. So there are guys with a similar setup that I have that are dyno tuned to those numbers.

Of course it all depends on how good the fuel is in your area as well. Generally these cars are fuel pressure limited and not knock limited if you live where the fuel is good like myself.

With this pump it's becomes reversed right? It's now knock limited as opposed to fuel limited...

So that leaves Ethanol mixes or meth injection to raise the octane levels...

Matt Robinson at GearHead has an xdi-35 pump and is running E30 to produce 500/500 if I recall... but E mixing adds more complexity...

It's not a straight forward question I suppose...


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Macgyver on May 04, 2018, 10:24:47 PM
Rodger that.

I am tuning with Brad shortly so That is why I am curious.

I live where the fuel is good. 93 Sunoco. E85 is abundant and it is regularly tested by the "Race" guys.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 05, 2018, 09:28:20 AM
Cleaned up the install a little bit. I trimmed back more of the tape on the harness to give me some more slack on the HPFP electrical plug. This allowed me to add a proper sheath on the wiring AND move it off the HPFP. I noticed that the pump gets super hot and was starting to melt the tape I had wrapped around the exposed wires.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Brucelinc on May 05, 2018, 09:35:11 AM
Looks good. Spendy but will add a safety margin as well as allow more aggressive mods down the road if you so choose.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 05, 2018, 09:37:45 AM
Quote from: Brucelinc on May 05, 2018, 09:35:11 AM
Looks good. Spendy but will add a safety margin as well as allow more aggressive mods down the road if you so choose.

Yes, it was a good chunk of change, but fuel pressure will not be a concern in the future. Being as I really want something is set and forget, this fits the bill. I really like methanol injection.. but there is always that bug in the back of your mind that if the pump fails.. or you run out of meth when your not close to some where that has it.. etc etc etc...

This will also support bigger turbos as well :-)
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 05, 2018, 03:34:57 PM
So I suspected there was a major change to the tune as it took forever for the tuner to update my ECU... so I double checked my strategy and SWPN on the ECU... found this to be humorous...

OLD Strategy: KHDR6KJ
New Strategy: KHDRLME

OLD SWPN: GG1A-14C204-APE
New SWPN: GG1A-14C204-LME

Looks like Livernois had to develope a whole new strategy and SWPN to properly tune the HPFP... cute that they tagged it "LME"....

In anyevent, there is most certainly a change in how the motor sounds.. specifically from 2.5K to 4K RPMs its much more throaty... even compared to the standard V11 tune... makes me wonder how much they changed...
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 05, 2018, 06:10:28 PM
I really think that if LME is developing their own strategies and firmware for the ECU... that kinda ends the debate on if they have more access into these ECU's.... just thinking...


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on May 05, 2018, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: BJSHO on May 05, 2018, 06:10:28 PM
I really think that if LME is developing their own strategies and firmware for the ECU... that kinda ends the debate on if they have more access into these ECU's.... just thinking...


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Hardly ...it may have just been the easier thing to do...but who will ever know
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 05, 2018, 06:22:49 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on May 05, 2018, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: BJSHO on May 05, 2018, 06:10:28 PM
I really think that if LME is developing their own strategies and firmware for the ECU... that kinda ends the debate on if they have more access into these ECU's.... just thinking...


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Hardly ...it may have just been the easier thing to do...but who will ever know

Can it be done with the SCT software? I have that question into Matt as well... simply curious.


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on May 05, 2018, 06:52:05 PM
Quote from: BJSHO on May 05, 2018, 06:22:49 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on May 05, 2018, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: BJSHO on May 05, 2018, 06:10:28 PM
I really think that if LME is developing their own strategies and firmware for the ECU... that kinda ends the debate on if they have more access into these ECU's.... just thinking...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hardly ...it may have just been the easier thing to do...but who will ever know

Can it be done with the SCT software? I have that question into Matt as well... simply curious.


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Changing the strategy and fuel pump ? Yes, and I don't see why not
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 09, 2018, 09:30:14 AM
So I noticed after installing the new pump and new tune that the engine really sounded aggressive between 2500 RPMs and 4000 RPMs. This caused a bit of vibration through the cabin... very small but noticeable mainly through the accel pedal. Thinking I had dorked something up I went ahead today and pulled the pump and put it back to stock. Vibration and aggressive tone went away in stock form.


I am gonna ping LMS but I'm sure it's probably normal as most people wouldn't notice it...

Will follow back..


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on May 09, 2018, 10:17:32 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 04, 2018, 01:12:12 PM
So I have been waiting to get my hands on one of these for QUITE some time. On my 2010 I ended up going with the Alky Kit to resolve fuel pressure issues since the HPFP upgrades were not available. However, on my virgin 2016 I decided to pull the trigger. 

A BIG shout out to Cody over at LMS for answering my questions, putting up with my canceling, then calling back to place the order, and the 5 different tune revisions I asked for. Then for answering a couple quick questions for the installation.

Installation was super easy, if you follow my how to on the HPFP replacement, its pretty much spot on... a couple changes...

1: You will need to bend the high pressure fuel line SLIGHTLY up so it will line up with the new pump
2: The electrical plug needs to be unbound from the taped up wiring harness. This will include cutting back the tape to free up the plug so it can reach the new pump.

Those are the ONLY two differences between putting in a stock pump and the Firestorm pump. Silly easy..

Initial datalogging shows MUCH more stable fuel pressure, fuel pressure is holding desired where as before it was dropping well below 1000psi which is downright dangerous if sustain, which is was.  The car drives really realy well.. smooth, pulls through the RPM range smooth.. very happy with this purchase and support from LMS.

(https://i.imgur.com/TDKrgAdh.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180505/fc4d8b01647f68d3c224962a861258cc.jpg)
Glad you were happy with our product and everythings running smoothly and install was very easy for you, this was our goal! Keep us updated!
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: derfdog15 on May 09, 2018, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on May 09, 2018, 10:17:32 AM
Glad you were happy with our product and everythings running smoothly and install was very easy for you, this was our goal! Keep us updated!

You should probably read the last post...since he encountered an issue with vibration/harshness
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 09, 2018, 01:09:34 PM
Quote from: derfdog15 on May 09, 2018, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on May 09, 2018, 10:17:32 AM
Glad you were happy with our product and everythings running smoothly and install was very easy for you, this was our goal! Keep us updated!

You should probably read the last post...since he encountered an issue with vibration/harshness

I would say "harshness" is a stretch.. I did some more testing on it. I believe its due to them adjusting the strategy to compensate for the HPFP. The engine sounds aggressive during that RPM range and you can feel it through the pedal a bit. All the vitals are good..

Imagine going from stock to an aggressive tune, the engine sounds different, pulses differently and you can generally "feel" the difference in how the motor vibrates under load. Its very similar to that.

After going back to stock and then back to the HPFP setup, I am not worried about it.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StinkinLinkin13 on May 09, 2018, 01:52:16 PM
I have the same "issue" with my V11 (FP command adjusted higher) tune... Feels like exhaust vibrations in the body (or even bad motor mounts even tho they are in fact good). Mostly at WOT or heavy acceleration... The car has been running fine for a couple of months now so I think it's just a "side effect" much like the change in the exhaust tone..
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on May 09, 2018, 04:27:23 PM
Either need beefier motor mounts or better fuel pulse dampeners or both.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: TheGreatestSHOman on May 09, 2018, 06:54:44 PM
Hhmmm...a very tempting upgrade. Not sure my wallet would appreciate it. To what end would you deem this upgrade necessary or even highly recommended? That is to say, at what point in making other modifications would you say that picking one up is in someone's best interest?
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 09, 2018, 08:34:49 PM
Quote from: TheGreatestSHOman on May 09, 2018, 06:54:44 PM
Hhmmm...a very tempting upgrade. Not sure my wallet would appreciate it. To what end would you deem this upgrade necessary or even highly recommended? That is to say, at what point in making other modifications would you say that picking one up is in someone's best interest?

Depends on your goals. I would say that if you are running an aggressive 93 octane 3Bar tune the benefit is added safety and not worrying about low fuel pressure during the winter months. Necessary, probably not as the community has been running 93 octane 3bar tunes for 8 years without an issue.. but as the tuners get more out of 93 3Bar tunes, its a safety net. You tend to see quite a few posts about hesitation etc during the winter.. mostly because of fuel pressure issues from what I have seen..

If you are looking for BIG power and don't want to deal with methanol injection then the pump is absolutely necessary for RELIABLE power all year round in my opinion. Bigger turbos will benefit from more fuel as well so there is that...

Again, there have been guys running heavy mixtures on stock fuel system if tuned correctly for it... just depends on how comfortable you are...

Wish I had a better answer.. if LMS gets back to me on the E-Mix tunes then that would be a huge benefit. Knowing Livernois for their reliability, if the back an E20/E30 tune that upped the power, then thats a huge benefit in my book.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: JagerBomb on September 10, 2018, 12:43:44 PM
Just read this and I think this is a great thing. I will add it to my list of to-dos. Maybe one day there will be a transmission upgrade too.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 04:24:02 PM
Soooo I have had this installed for some time now... and I have purchased a lot of different stuff between my 2010 and 2016 SHO...

THIS BY FAR  IS THE BEST PURCHASE BESIDES A TUNE I HAVE MADE. That is all.. continue with your regularly scheduled programming...

(Alky Meth coming in a close second) 
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 04:24:02 PM
Soooo I have had this installed for some time now... and I have purchased a lot of different stuff between my 2010 and 2016 SHO...

THIS BY FAR  IS THE BEST PURCHASE BESIDES A TUNE I HAVE MADE. That is all.. continue with your regularly scheduled programming...

(Alky Meth coming in a close second)

What kind of desired tip are you running?
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 04:53:29 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 04:24:02 PM
Soooo I have had this installed for some time now... and I have purchased a lot of different stuff between my 2010 and 2016 SHO...

THIS BY FAR  IS THE BEST PURCHASE BESIDES A TUNE I HAVE MADE. That is all.. continue with your regularly scheduled programming...

(Alky Meth coming in a close second)

What kind of desired tip are you running?

204kpa is demanded but actual is higher... and GOOD spark up top.. but there is NO drop off in boost at the higher RPMS even with LMS extending the shift out. Very cool how well LMS can hold the boost all the way out...

I guess what I am saying that demanded is almost like a minimum...  this latest tune from LMS is nuts.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 05:06:02 PM
Well the boost has nothing to do with the pump ....as long as the turbos are good ...I think you have an overkill pump for your boost level but it's your money....some people won't have much of a fuel pressure dip at at 200 kpa...as long as you feel good about it that's all that matters...temporary fuel pressure dips do not automatically mean KR. ...you have octane with e30 so 1500psi fuel pressure is fine and the pumps typically run more efficient there

When you say actual tip is higher do you mean tip? That will be higher than map when the throttle is closing to control boost
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 05:10:39 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 04:53:29 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 04:41:58 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 04:24:02 PM








I guess what I am saying that demanded is almost like a minimum...  this latest tune from LMS is nuts.


Well you need to see how nuts it really is and get that beast to a dyno! I love LMS but the dyno numbers always seem to be modest
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 06:00:43 PM
Hmm I will post some logs later... unfortunately all the AWD dynos are unavailable in NoVA until sometime next year. Moore's Automotive in Fairfax is broken (I called) and Ptuning in Manassas, VA stopped offering dyno pulls due to the large tuning demand...

Anyone else knows a linked AWD dyno within a couple hours drive let me know...

But the track numbers will tell the whole story...


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 06:05:29 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 05:06:02 PM
Well the boost has nothing to do with the pump ....as long as the turbos are good ...I think you have an overkill pump for your boost level but it's your money....some people won't have much of a fuel pressure dip at at 200 kpa...as long as you feel good about it that's all that matters...temporary fuel pressure dips do not automatically mean KR. ...you have octane with e30 so 1500psi fuel pressure is fine and the pumps typically run more efficient there

When you say actual tip is higher do you mean tip? That will be higher than map when the throttle is closing to control boost

You asked about the desired TP... however.. yes.. boost has a lot to do with the pump.. boost spikes particularly and the higher the demanded generally the bigger the spikes.. its well known that higher boost causes pressure dips.. unless you run at a leaner lambda requiring less from the fuel system.  More load = less pressure on the stock pump.. which is why a bigger HPFP has been requested for years...

I have had pressure drop well below 1000psi with no knock.. but properly atomizing the fuel at higher loads helps in all ways. Cooling the cylinder, helping with knock, and staving off lean conditions, etc...

Curious that pumps run more efficiently at 1500psi? Even Matt Robinson suggests that 2900psi is way better...
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: bpd1151 on December 02, 2018, 06:20:13 PM
WOW BJ! Seems like you're quite excited about this newest tune release from LMS.

That says a lot given you've worked with quite a few tuners, and have been objective in your reviews of each/all of them.

So in other words, you're basically saying that this latest tune offering from LMS is perfect in every possible way, and that there are parameters LMS has tweaked that other tuning competitors haven't quite figured out yet?

Is that a fair question?

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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 06:55:52 PM
I'm sorry I need clarification on what a fuel pump has to do with setting boost targets..they are completely independent

If you look at the volumetric efficiency tables of the high pressure fuel pumps data you can see this...it's kind of like turbos...we can deliver more fuel at 3000psi but not as efficiently.

Big boost spikes have more to do with running baby turbos at high wastegate duty when an upshift happens
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 07:12:53 PM
It's all good I just don't want people to think you need the pump to run E30 at that boost....no fuel pressure dips are great but I haven't seen any adverse effects of minor dips...you are not taking into account the myriad of other safety controls the car will utilize to keep it safe

Even on wreckless tunes that we know are out there there have been so few failures

   Boost taper is generally a result from bad turbos especially if it's happening in 3rd gear

Mike you shouldn't read too much into v2 spark...it depends on how the spark limits are set...if you are looking to make them match completely that is easy...but that's not a goal that will really do anything for you...if you are not on a particular spark limit then they are NOT supposed to match
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on December 02, 2018, 06:20:13 PM
WOW BJ! Seems like you're quite excited about this newest tune release from LMS.

That says a lot given you've worked with quite a few tuners, and have been objective in your reviews of each/all of them.

So in other words, you're basically saying that this latest tune offering from LMS is perfect in every possible way, and that there are parameters LMS has tweaked that other tuning competitors haven't quite figured out yet?

Is that a fair question?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Yes, I am VERY excited about this latest tune from LMS. Cody messaged me saying him, Anthony, and their "head tuner" stayed late to put this together for me. And the results in the datalog as well as the seat of the pants feel are really really impressive.

Yes, I have bounced around on the tuning front.. Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, Gearhead, and Livernois between my 2010 and 2016 SHO. I have ALWAYS been impressed with how SMOOTH the LMS tune runs and how clean the datalogs look. I may have been at points underwhelmed with the load I see in the datalogs but have never been disappointed in the ET with LMS but more importantly the consistency in their ET/MPH. Glory runs will get respect from a lot... but dialing in and running a low time consistently wins respect AND money.

I will post logs later but a few examples of things that really stand out are..

1: Timing advance on LMS is SMOOTH... I have YET to see another tuner get spark v2 to follow spark.. silky smooth.. people who datalog know what I am talking about..

2: Boost.. when LMS commands boost its not for the mid range of RPMS.. they command it all the way through redline which is impressive. A tuner may say they command 15psi but they taper off hard at the topend.. LMS holds its all the way to shift..

3: cam positioning..if you look at the exhaust and intake cam position it is very different than any other tune.

Based on my various track visits... and I have been talking to BamSHO, BPD1151, and various others.. I am still baffled at how a tune that demands much less load runs just as fast as tune that call for 3-4 psi and more timing(much more load).. I have posted on the forums asking about it...

Needless to say again... Livernois Engineering has shown over and over again through the various tuners that they are able to get the most of this platform. I ran the same times with a tune that pushed 1.65 average load through third gear from one tuner as a tune from LMS that only pushed 1.52 average through third gear...

And I am not just kissing their booty as anyone can attest.. I am the first one to call them out on when I believe they are wrong or misguiding, and with data not just opinion.  I try to be impartial in all reviews as it has shown to be valuable to new people joining the forums (You're welcome Brad for the business :-P ).

All that being said.. THIS LATEST E30 TUNE FROM LME IS THE BEST TUNE I HAVE RECIEVED.

Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 07:26:54 PM
Also the displayed load is a product of how the tune has the tq model set up...there is a lot to it...you can make a torque value read any load value you want
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 07:29:35 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 07:26:54 PM
Also the displayed load is a product of how the tune has the tq model set up...there is a lot to it...you can make a torque value read any load value you want

True... we played with that on my 2010 attempting to correct the fuel trims for meth.

Load was reading way low, but power production was high.


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: ZSHO on December 02, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
I think LMS Dyno is spot on @ 415whp-465wtq which netted me a Trap Speed of almost 116-mph! Second thought it might be on the conservative side!  Z ;)
Definitely need to get her on the Dyno to see where your @ ! Best of luck.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on December 02, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
I think LMS Dyno is spot on @ 415whp-465wtq which netted me a Trap Speed of almost 116-mph! Second thought it might be on the conservative side!  Z ;)
Definitely need to get her on the Dyno to see where your @ ! Best of luck.

I need a damn dyno! LoL... it's not from lack of trying...

Although DPs would help... Corsa and DPs are next on the list.. probably January time frame.


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 09:12:12 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on December 02, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
I think LMS Dyno is spot on @ 415whp-465wtq which netted me a Trap Speed of almost 116-mph! Second thought it might be on the conservative side!  Z ;)
Definitely need to get her on the Dyno to see where your @ ! Best of luck.

I need a damn dyno! LoL... it's not from lack of trying...

Although DPs would help... Corsa and DPs are next on the list.. probably January time frame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike I love ya...you are basically all in now lol...I knew you would be  regardless of saying how you were going to enjoy the care free operation of the stock vehicle...from all the logging and analytics I knew you wouldn't be able to help yourself...I know how you people are!...carry on
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: 802SHO on December 03, 2018, 05:29:28 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on December 02, 2018, 06:20:13 PM
WOW BJ! Seems like you're quite excited about this newest tune release from LMS.

That says a lot given you've worked with quite a few tuners, and have been objective in your reviews of each/all of them.

So in other words, you're basically saying that this latest tune offering from LMS is perfect in every possible way, and that there are parameters LMS has tweaked that other tuning competitors haven't quite figured out yet?

Is that a fair question?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Yes, I am VERY excited about this latest tune from LMS. Cody messaged me saying him, Anthony, and their "head tuner" stayed late to put this together for me. And the results in the datalog as well as the seat of the pants feel are really really impressive.

Yes, I have bounced around on the tuning front.. Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, Gearhead, and Livernois between my 2010 and 2016 SHO. I have ALWAYS been impressed with how SMOOTH the LMS tune runs and how clean the datalogs look. I may have been at points underwhelmed with the load I see in the datalogs but have never been disappointed in the ET with LMS but more importantly the consistency in their ET/MPH. Glory runs will get respect from a lot... but dialing in and running a low time consistently wins respect AND money.

I will post logs later but a few examples of things that really stand out are..

1: Timing advance on LMS is SMOOTH... I have YET to see another tuner get spark v2 to follow spark.. silky smooth.. people who datalog know what I am talking about..

2: Boost.. when LMS commands boost its not for the mid range of RPMS.. they command it all the way through redline which is impressive. A tuner may say they command 15psi but they taper off hard at the topend.. LMS holds its all the way to shift..

3: cam positioning..if you look at the exhaust and intake cam position it is very different than any other tune.

Based on my various track visits... and I have been talking to BamSHO, BPD1151, and various others.. I am still baffled at how a tune that demands much less load runs just as fast as tune that call for 3-4 psi and more timing(much more load).. I have posted on the forums asking about it...

Needless to say again... Livernois Engineering has shown over and over again through the various tuners that they are able to get the most of this platform. I ran the same times with a tune that pushed 1.65 average load through third gear from one tuner as a tune from LMS that only pushed 1.52 average through third gear...

And I am not just kissing their booty as anyone can attest.. I am the first one to call them out on when I believe they are wrong or misguiding, and with data not just opinion.  I try to be impartial in all reviews as it has shown to be valuable to new people joining the forums (You're welcome Brad for the business :-P ).

All that being said.. THIS LATEST E30 TUNE FROM LME IS THE BEST TUNE I HAVE RECIEVED.

This may be all fine and good.....certainly sounds it.  BUT is it necessary?  I think we all know the answer to that and no its not by a long shot.  How do I know this?  Well hmmm bc BPD is about to install one or two (now) not previously...who is BPD?  The fastest ecoboost SHO in the world.  Built motor, custom Meth set up with two nozzles, upgraded ATP turbos.  No upgraded fuel pump to speak of.  Hes reported nothing but smoooooth sailing.  With such a high amount of power hes putting down...interesting no issues reported with his set up.  Does the dual nozzle meth set up help.....Pppprobably.  If one were to have fuel pressure issues I would like to assume BPD would have all of them.  Based on that I am inclined to believe it is not necessary.  So I guess a better all around statement would be...or question.....does it help?  Sure...why not?  But its not necessary ...clearly with a trap speed of 119 @11.54 with No E30 and no upgraded fuel pump.  At the price for this undoubtedly nice fuel pump....this would be near the very end of my build....sort of like the end of Mikes build.  BPD you unfortunately are the ruler used to determine how necessary or unnecessary this upgrade is.  The proof is in the pudding 😇

Now its my understanding...and I could be wrong...but if I was going to go E85 then I think the upgraded fuel pump..and to make matters worse theres two to choose from 😕..then this would be a necessity. 

SBS is it true that you've recieved tunes from Livernois and GearHead for your E30 W/upgraded fuel pump?  The latest being the second rendition from Livernois?  This may be the best tune you've recieved for your set up...currently but you make it sound as though its the best you've recieved period.  Hands down the best.  Is that what you meant?  Not every tuner you've previously used has made a tune for you.  Youre comparing Livernois to GearHead only for E30 and uograded fuel pump and Livernois got two chances.  And between the first Livernois and GearHead, GearHead was faster which resulted in your fastwst quarter mile to date.  Didn't want people to think Livernois beat out everyone else who tuned your cars previously.  To be fair you should get another tune from GearHead and do a comparison at the track.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on December 03, 2018, 07:41:31 AM
An HPFP is not NEEDED for bpd's install, but then he is not running high E either.  If anything, he has been staunchly against high E due to E85 having such variable quality at the pump.  If the situation with E85 has changed, that would be good to know, and it helps to provide confirmation such as SM105K did recently on CA and AZ stations.

Having an HPFP is advantageous for running high E over long periods of time.  Lower stoichiometry, higher demand, etc, especially on Gen 4 pumps.  Why run at the top of the range when you are looking for durability.  bpd is ALL about durability.  Another reason is sheer ease of install/value delivered.  10 minutes to swap it out?  Ridiculously easy!  Modify the foam in the appearance cover and retain stock looks too!  Compare that to having to install new fuel lines and dropping in an auxiliary pump etc.  While both approaches have validity, the ease of use factory is easily in an HPFP's favor.

As to Livernois vs other vendors for an upgraded HPFP, IDK.  But I do respect their engineering.  Ya prices are high, but I think you can sit back and relax a lot easier with their products than anyone else's.  So it is a personal choice :)
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: bpd1151 on December 03, 2018, 08:11:39 AM
Durability and dependability have ALWAYS ruled in my playbook.

Always.

Now, suffice to say, Dan Millen prefers I have their HPFP integrated into my build. I listen to Dan. He has never once steered me wrong. Not ever.

Plus, the #'s and results have always proven themselves, and consistently at that.

Speaking of consistency, the whole reason he had me ramp up to the two 15lb nozzles of 100% VP M1 Methanol, was to help offset less than desired FRP on the high pressure side of things. Was it ever in jeopardy? Nope. But just simply less than what he desired.

The dual meth nozzle setup alleviated that. Now moving forward.... do I personally want to be SO RELIANT on the Methanol? Nope.

I'd rather it be used for it's intended cooling and cleaning properties, than to rely on it so much as a dedicated, secondary fueling source. Which I am as of current.

Thus why I purchased the HPFP from LMS this past Fall, and am simply waiting on its install, as well as a few other additional upgrade fueling goodies also previously purchased and awaiting install too.

Just waiting on the IC from GH before moving forward.

I agree with SHOdded in so much as that running a completely separate auxiliary fueling setup is not only equally as costly, but is also more "involved" than simply slapping on a modified HPFP that is bolt on, direct replacement.

An auxiliary set up also presents it's own problems as well, that just aren't present with the modded HPFP.

Anyhoo....... ultimately all pieces of a puzzle. Of which each piece is integral to the overall completion goal. Gotta pay to play as the old adage goes.

Now back to the topic at hand, it's exciting to see BJ excited. He's always been objective and neutral in posting his experiences. An excited BJ is a great thing! Oh yea baby.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 03, 2018, 09:34:33 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on December 03, 2018, 05:29:28 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on December 02, 2018, 06:20:13 PM
WOW BJ! Seems like you're quite excited about this newest tune release from LMS.

That says a lot given you've worked with quite a few tuners, and have been objective in your reviews of each/all of them.

So in other words, you're basically saying that this latest tune offering from LMS is perfect in every possible way, and that there are parameters LMS has tweaked that other tuning competitors haven't quite figured out yet?

Is that a fair question?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Yes, I am VERY excited about this latest tune from LMS. Cody messaged me saying him, Anthony, and their "head tuner" stayed late to put this together for me. And the results in the datalog as well as the seat of the pants feel are really really impressive.

Yes, I have bounced around on the tuning front.. Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, Gearhead, and Livernois between my 2010 and 2016 SHO. I have ALWAYS been impressed with how SMOOTH the LMS tune runs and how clean the datalogs look. I may have been at points underwhelmed with the load I see in the datalogs but have never been disappointed in the ET with LMS but more importantly the consistency in their ET/MPH. Glory runs will get respect from a lot... but dialing in and running a low time consistently wins respect AND money.

I will post logs later but a few examples of things that really stand out are..

1: Timing advance on LMS is SMOOTH... I have YET to see another tuner get spark v2 to follow spark.. silky smooth.. people who datalog know what I am talking about..

2: Boost.. when LMS commands boost its not for the mid range of RPMS.. they command it all the way through redline which is impressive. A tuner may say they command 15psi but they taper off hard at the topend.. LMS holds its all the way to shift..

3: cam positioning..if you look at the exhaust and intake cam position it is very different than any other tune.

Based on my various track visits... and I have been talking to BamSHO, BPD1151, and various others.. I am still baffled at how a tune that demands much less load runs just as fast as tune that call for 3-4 psi and more timing(much more load).. I have posted on the forums asking about it...

Needless to say again... Livernois Engineering has shown over and over again through the various tuners that they are able to get the most of this platform. I ran the same times with a tune that pushed 1.65 average load through third gear from one tuner as a tune from LMS that only pushed 1.52 average through third gear...

And I am not just kissing their booty as anyone can attest.. I am the first one to call them out on when I believe they are wrong or misguiding, and with data not just opinion.  I try to be impartial in all reviews as it has shown to be valuable to new people joining the forums (You're welcome Brad for the business :-P ).

All that being said.. THIS LATEST E30 TUNE FROM LME IS THE BEST TUNE I HAVE RECIEVED.

This may be all fine and good.....certainly sounds it.  BUT is it necessary?  I think we all know the answer to that and no its not by a long shot.  How do I know this?  Well hmmm bc BPD is about to install one or two (now) not previously...who is BPD?  The fastest ecoboost SHO in the world.  Built motor, custom Meth set up with two nozzles, upgraded ATP turbos.  No upgraded fuel pump to speak of.  Hes reported nothing but smoooooth sailing.  With such a high amount of power hes putting down...interesting no issues reported with his set up.  Does the dual nozzle meth set up help.....Pppprobably.  If one were to have fuel pressure issues I would like to assume BPD would have all of them.  Based on that I am inclined to believe it is not necessary.  So I guess a better all around statement would be...or question.....does it help?  Sure...why not?  But its not necessary ...clearly with a trap speed of 119 @11.54 with No E30 and no upgraded fuel pump.  At the price for this undoubtedly nice fuel pump....this would be near the very end of my build....sort of like the end of Mikes build.  BPD you unfortunately are the ruler used to determine how necessary or unnecessary this upgrade is.  The proof is in the pudding 😇

Now its my understanding...and I could be wrong...but if I was going to go E85 then I think the upgraded fuel pump..and to make matters worse theres two to choose from 😕..then this would be a necessity. 

SBS is it true that you've recieved tunes from Livernois and GearHead for your E30 W/upgraded fuel pump?  The latest being the second rendition from Livernois?  This may be the best tune you've recieved for your set up...currently but you make it sound as though its the best you've recieved period.  Hands down the best.  Is that what you meant?  Not every tuner you've previously used has made a tune for you.  Youre comparing Livernois to GearHead only for E30 and uograded fuel pump and Livernois got two chances.  And between the first Livernois and GearHead, GearHead was faster which resulted in your fastwst quarter mile to date.  Didn't want people to think Livernois beat out everyone else who tuned your cars previously.  To be fair you should get another tune from GearHead and do a comparison at the track.

Couple things here...

I may have come across a bit strong in my post. I want to re-iterate that AJPTurbo was one of the only tuners besides LMS to get my 2010 to run correctly. My FASTEST ET/MPH to date is still the meth tune that AJPTurbo put together for my 2010. Brad spent a lot of hours with me working back and forth on getting things ironed out. I have yet to set a PB with my 2016.

Is the HPFP necessary? You are correct in that its not needed nor is it a requirement for running E30. That being said, I am NOT going to run meth on this car like I did on my 2010. I wanted to go in a different direction and after talking with LMS several times decided to go with the HPFP through them. The pump allows me to run an aggressive E30 tune all year round without worrying about fuel pressure. Some people are OK with fuel pressure drops, its one of those "how comfortable are you with not having optimal pressure all the time". For me, personally, I want a set and forget setup..I have been saying this since Day 1 with this car. I don't want to have to be switching tunes when it gets cold and my FRP can't keep up. I spoke with Jordan who run's 11's on Brads E30 tune with the stock HPFP, he is currently or already has a basic 93 tune as he is seeing fuel pressure issues with the extreme cold. Thats not something I want  deal with, so I am not.

FWIW: Meth is fantastic, and BPD1151 has gotten very far on just meth with stock fueling. But its far from perfect and really serves three purposes with our car. A: Alleviate the stock fuel system so you don't loose pressure. B: Clean the intake valves C: Cool the charge.  However its not a drop in system.. read through the posts.. lots of people struggle with getting meth setup correctly.. and then getting tuned for it. I loved my meth setup, just not willing to do it again at this point.

It is my choice who I decide to tune with, I ran the gamut with my 2010, and decided after grenading the motor that I wasn't going to be a guinea pig for tuners on my 2016.  I originally decided to stick with LMS as their tunes have a great track record, and I was fairly happy with the power output on my 2010 from them, not ecstatic but happy.  I ordered the HPFP since that was something I always wanted even before it was released and loaded up the LMS tunes for the HPFP, however was disappointed when I noticed that the rail pressure wasn't changed and demanded was still at stock levels.. I asked LMS about this and received a pretty null answer.

On Facebook Matt reached out to me to see if he could take a shot at tuning the LMS pump and get more out of it. I sat on that offer for well over a month before deciding to give it a try as I highly respect Matt. And true to his abilities he was able to get more pressure out of the pump than LMS did which allowed him to run a higher load on my car thus more power.  But still has issues such as short shifting from second to third, issues with the throttle not responding correctly at the higher loads, etc.. Again, Im not looking to be a guinea pig on my 2016.. I like GH's tune, paid for them, and Matt is a fantastic guy and I recommend him as much as I recommend LMS. His auto octane tune is very well put together.

The SCT platform in my opinion is really good, however, there have ALWAYS been idiosyncrasies in the tunes I have run. Not matter who tunes with it on my 2010 or my 2016 there have always been little issues. I have never had those problems with LMS software. Thats not a knock at the tuners, but more of an observation with SCT based tunes. 


Is this latest tune from LMS the best tune I have received to date including my 2010 and 2016? Like best tune EVER? Bar none? I would venture to say yes for many reasons.

1: The day to day driving on this tune is top notch..part throttle response is way better than their V11 tune and shifting is spot on..
2: The data im pulling from the ECU is SMOOTH... fuel pressure, boost, spark, fuel trims, wastegate, etc.. everything is really well put together
3: The seat of pants feel tells me that this is probably the fastest tune I have received from anyone.  Of course this will need to be validated at the track, but as of now, it FEELS FAST.
4: LME has a FANTASTIC record of only providing SAFE tunes. If they are willing to put their name behind this one and tell me over the phone its as safe as their previous tunes, then that to me is a HUGE plus.
5: There is no guessing in this tune, LME has been tuning these cars for years, so there is no "Let see if this works" in the tune. I appreciate that immensely.

I can go into more details but I believe my point has been made.   



Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: 802SHO on December 03, 2018, 10:52:26 AM
When I said personal best I meant in relation to your current car.  You do make a good point.  All of you.  I couldnt resist stirring the pot and thank you for taking it easy on me.  😌
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on December 03, 2018, 10:56:38 AM
If we didn't have potstirrers, where would the fun be.  Anybody can help make a rut in the road LOL.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on December 03, 2018, 11:44:14 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 03, 2018, 09:34:33 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on December 03, 2018, 05:29:28 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 07:20:12 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on December 02, 2018, 06:20:13 PM
WOW BJ! Seems like you're quite excited about this newest tune release from LMS.

That says a lot given you've worked with quite a few tuners, and have been objective in your reviews of each/all of them.

So in other words, you're basically saying that this latest tune offering from LMS is perfect in every possible way, and that there are parameters LMS has tweaked that other tuning competitors haven't quite figured out yet?

Is that a fair question?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Yes, I am VERY excited about this latest tune from LMS. Cody messaged me saying him, Anthony, and their "head tuner" stayed late to put this together for me. And the results in the datalog as well as the seat of the pants feel are really really impressive.

Yes, I have bounced around on the tuning front.. Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, Gearhead, and Livernois between my 2010 and 2016 SHO. I have ALWAYS been impressed with how SMOOTH the LMS tune runs and how clean the datalogs look. I may have been at points underwhelmed with the load I see in the datalogs but have never been disappointed in the ET with LMS but more importantly the consistency in their ET/MPH. Glory runs will get respect from a lot... but dialing in and running a low time consistently wins respect AND money.

I will post logs later but a few examples of things that really stand out are..

1: Timing advance on LMS is SMOOTH... I have YET to see another tuner get spark v2 to follow spark.. silky smooth.. people who datalog know what I am talking about..

2: Boost.. when LMS commands boost its not for the mid range of RPMS.. they command it all the way through redline which is impressive. A tuner may say they command 15psi but they taper off hard at the topend.. LMS holds its all the way to shift..

3: cam positioning..if you look at the exhaust and intake cam position it is very different than any other tune.

Based on my various track visits... and I have been talking to BamSHO, BPD1151, and various others.. I am still baffled at how a tune that demands much less load runs just as fast as tune that call for 3-4 psi and more timing(much more load).. I have posted on the forums asking about it...

Needless to say again... Livernois Engineering has shown over and over again through the various tuners that they are able to get the most of this platform. I ran the same times with a tune that pushed 1.65 average load through third gear from one tuner as a tune from LMS that only pushed 1.52 average through third gear...

And I am not just kissing their booty as anyone can attest.. I am the first one to call them out on when I believe they are wrong or misguiding, and with data not just opinion.  I try to be impartial in all reviews as it has shown to be valuable to new people joining the forums (You're welcome Brad for the business :-P ).

All that being said.. THIS LATEST E30 TUNE FROM LME IS THE BEST TUNE I HAVE RECIEVED.

This may be all fine and good.....certainly sounds it.  BUT is it necessary?  I think we all know the answer to that and no its not by a long shot.  How do I know this?  Well hmmm bc BPD is about to install one or two (now) not previously...who is BPD?  The fastest ecoboost SHO in the world.  Built motor, custom Meth set up with two nozzles, upgraded ATP turbos.  No upgraded fuel pump to speak of.  Hes reported nothing but smoooooth sailing.  With such a high amount of power hes putting down...interesting no issues reported with his set up.  Does the dual nozzle meth set up help.....Pppprobably.  If one were to have fuel pressure issues I would like to assume BPD would have all of them.  Based on that I am inclined to believe it is not necessary.  So I guess a better all around statement would be...or question.....does it help?  Sure...why not?  But its not necessary ...clearly with a trap speed of 119 @11.54 with No E30 and no upgraded fuel pump.  At the price for this undoubtedly nice fuel pump....this would be near the very end of my build....sort of like the end of Mikes build.  BPD you unfortunately are the ruler used to determine how necessary or unnecessary this upgrade is.  The proof is in the pudding 😇

Now its my understanding...and I could be wrong...but if I was going to go E85 then I think the upgraded fuel pump..and to make matters worse theres two to choose from 😕..then this would be a necessity. 

SBS is it true that you've recieved tunes from Livernois and GearHead for your E30 W/upgraded fuel pump?  The latest being the second rendition from Livernois?  This may be the best tune you've recieved for your set up...currently but you make it sound as though its the best you've recieved period.  Hands down the best.  Is that what you meant?  Not every tuner you've previously used has made a tune for you.  Youre comparing Livernois to GearHead only for E30 and uograded fuel pump and Livernois got two chances.  And between the first Livernois and GearHead, GearHead was faster which resulted in your fastwst quarter mile to date.  Didn't want people to think Livernois beat out everyone else who tuned your cars previously.  To be fair you should get another tune from GearHead and do a comparison at the track.

Couple things here...

I may have come across a bit strong in my post. I want to re-iterate that AJPTurbo was one of the only tuners besides LMS to get my 2010 to run correctly. My FASTEST ET/MPH to date is still the meth tune that AJPTurbo put together for my 2010. Brad spent a lot of hours with me working back and forth on getting things ironed out. I have yet to set a PB with my 2016.

Is the HPFP necessary? You are correct in that its not needed nor is it a requirement for running E30. That being said, I am NOT going to run meth on this car like I did on my 2010. I wanted to go in a different direction and after talking with LMS several times decided to go with the HPFP through them. The pump allows me to run an aggressive E30 tune all year round without worrying about fuel pressure. Some people are OK with fuel pressure drops, its one of those "how comfortable are you with not having optimal pressure all the time". For me, personally, I want a set and forget setup..I have been saying this since Day 1 with this car. I don't want to have to be switching tunes when it gets cold and my FRP can't keep up. I spoke with Jordan who run's 11's on Brads E30 tune with the stock HPFP, he is currently or already has a basic 93 tune as he is seeing fuel pressure issues with the extreme cold. Thats not something I want  deal with, so I am not.

FWIW: Meth is fantastic, and BPD1151 has gotten very far on just meth with stock fueling. But its far from perfect and really serves three purposes with our car. A: Alleviate the stock fuel system so you don't loose pressure. B: Clean the intake valves C: Cool the charge.  However its not a drop in system.. read through the posts.. lots of people struggle with getting meth setup correctly.. and then getting tuned for it. I loved my meth setup, just not willing to do it again at this point.

It is my choice who I decide to tune with, I ran the gamut with my 2010, and decided after grenading the motor that I wasn't going to be a guinea pig for tuners on my 2016.  I originally decided to stick with LMS as their tunes have a great track record, and I was fairly happy with the power output on my 2010 from them, not ecstatic but happy.  I ordered the HPFP since that was something I always wanted even before it was released and loaded up the LMS tunes for the HPFP, however was disappointed when I noticed that the rail pressure wasn't changed and demanded was still at stock levels.. I asked LMS about this and received a pretty null answer.

On Facebook Matt reached out to me to see if he could take a shot at tuning the LMS pump and get more out of it. I sat on that offer for well over a month before deciding to give it a try as I highly respect Matt. And true to his abilities he was able to get more pressure out of the pump than LMS did which allowed him to run a higher load on my car thus more power.  But still has issues such as short shifting from second to third, issues with the throttle not responding correctly at the higher loads, etc.. Again, Im not looking to be a guinea pig on my 2016.. I like GH's tune, paid for them, and Matt is a fantastic guy and I recommend him as much as I recommend LMS. His auto octane tune is very well put together.

The SCT platform in my opinion is really good, however, there have ALWAYS been idiosyncrasies in the tunes I have run. Not matter who tunes with it on my 2010 or my 2016 there have always been little issues. I have never had those problems with LMS software. Thats not a knock at the tuners, but more of an observation with SCT based tunes. 

You say Livernois got two chances? You would be correct, I have TWO E30 tunes from Livernois Motorsports... I have SEVEN E30 tunes from Gearhead.. and I am sure if I asked Matt today there is another update.. last time I talked to him he said he was on revision 68 of E30 tune. So in all honesty, GH has had more shots than Livernois Engineering.

Is this latest tune from LMS the best tune I have received to date including my 2010 and 2016? Like best tune EVER? Bar none? I would venture to say yes for many reasons.

1: The day to day driving on this tune is top notch..part throttle response is way better than their V11 tune and shifting is spot on..
2: The data im pulling from the ECU is SMOOTH... fuel pressure, boost, spark, fuel trims, wastegate, etc.. everything is really well put together
3: The seat of pants feel tells me that this is probably the fastest tune I have received from anyone.  Of course this will need to be validated at the track, but as of now, it FEELS FAST.
4: LME has a FANTASTIC record of only providing SAFE tunes. If they are willing to put their name behind this one and tell me over the phone its as safe as their previous tunes, then that to me is a HUGE plus.
5: There is no guessing in this tune, LME has been tuning these cars for years, so there is no "Let see if this works" in the tune. I appreciate that immensely.

I can go into more details but I believe my point has been made.   




We are glad to see that you are enjoying the new and improved tune file we created for you and your build, its great to receive all of the positive feedback. As for the not needing the HPFP for E30 with meth, yes this is correct, if you live in warmer climaate that stays warm year round then you should be fine without having the hpfp, but in states such as michigan and many others we see even with meth when people run E30 that it does still stress the fuel system and try to drop fuel pressure, and as you all may know ANY drop in fuel pressure can cause tons of issues such as incomplete combustion/missfires so it is definitely a benefit to use our upgraded HPFP to make your build safer and worry free and give you the peace of mind knowing that no matter what your car will be on the extremely safe side of things and will never have a problem with fueling properly, that is the huge benefit of the HPFP also it gives people another option instead of doing meth when it comes to upgraded turbos
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Jordan on December 03, 2018, 02:01:13 PM
I'll be upgrading to a hpfp in the future. Not that I think I need to currently unless it's ethanol blends in the winter weather of course. The 93 tune Mike mentioned above that was dipping in fuel pressure was in a luggy pull where it was extremely taxing on the fuel system. That and the 40 iat2 temps I don't think any stock hpfp could keep up. I would be curious to see how the car would respond in the cold temps with the e30 tune assuming I had proper fuel for it. Given the 11.98 on e30 with the stock fuel system was at 4300 da with iat2 being 125+

However... If you plan on upgrading a couple of those little spinny bois I think it's a necessary upgrade lol. Maybe in the future of course! I'll finish up a few bolt ons that I have in mind before then.

Mike your car do what you want ha! You are the one driving your car if you like nobody else's opinion matters! Glad to see it is working well got you
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: shoNoff on December 03, 2018, 02:20:08 PM
I'll stir the pot more. I refuse to run one because all you say I should.
:blah:
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Jordan on December 03, 2018, 02:27:01 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on December 03, 2018, 02:20:08 PM
I'll stir the pot more. I refuse to run one because all you say I should.
:blah:

Well if you insist on selling me the one you bought this fall I wholeheartedly agree haha!
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SM105K on December 03, 2018, 02:30:59 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on December 03, 2018, 02:20:08 PM
I'll stir the pot more. I refuse to run one because all you say I should.
:blah:

I am in too!
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on December 03, 2018, 03:04:21 PM
LOL, time to call in the BOSS and put y'all's feet to the fire, I see.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on December 03, 2018, 09:45:06 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 05:06:02 PM
Well the boost has nothing to do with the pump ....as long as the turbos are good ...I think you have an overkill pump for your boost level but it's your money....some people won't have much of a fuel pressure dip at at 200 kpa...as long as you feel good about it that's all that matters...temporary fuel pressure dips do not automatically mean KR. ...you have octane with e30 so 1500psi fuel pressure is fine and the pumps typically run more efficient there

When you say actual tip is higher do you mean tip? That will be higher than map when the throttle is closing to control boost

You really need to pay attention to weather and conditions. The stock pump is no where near adequate for these cars once you raise boost even a 4-6 inHg (2-3lbs) in the northern climates. Pump drop does indeed cause problems. When the high pressure fuel drops and air fuel ratios raise we let the throttle close and limit boost. I have seen several tunes from people who just shut all this off. The problems seem to rise around this time of the year and later and can cause problems.

Quotetemporary fuel pressure dips do not automatically mean KR. ...you have octane with e30 so 1500psi fuel pressure is fine and the pumps typically run more efficient there
What do you mean more efficient? I have never have seen a stock pump dropping pressure efficient?

Just dont want to give the community bad information

Thanks

LME
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: AJP turbo on December 03, 2018, 10:25:46 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on December 03, 2018, 09:45:06 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on December 02, 2018, 05:06:02 PM
Well the boost has nothing to do with the pump ....as long as the turbos are good ...I think you have an overkill pump for your boost level but it's your money....some people won't have much of a fuel pressure dip at at 200 kpa...as long as you feel good about it that's all that matters...temporary fuel pressure dips do not automatically mean KR. ...you have octane with e30 so 1500psi fuel pressure is fine and the pumps typically run more efficient there

When you say actual tip is higher do you mean tip? That will be higher than map when the throttle is closing to control boost

You really need to pay attention to weather and conditions. The stock pump is no where near adequate for these cars once you raise boost even a 4-6 inHg (2-3lbs) in the northern climates. Pump drop does indeed cause problems. When the high pressure fuel drops and air fuel ratios raise we let the throttle close and limit boost. I have seen several tunes from people who just shut all this off. The problems seem to rise around this time of the year and later and can cause problems.

Quotetemporary fuel pressure dips do not automatically mean KR. ...you have octane with e30 so 1500psi fuel pressure is fine and the pumps typically run more efficient there
What do you mean more efficient? I have never have seen a stock pump dropping pressure efficient?

Just dont want to give the community bad information

Thanks

LME

Yes all that is well understood.....I think it's more accurate to say lower pump pressure CAN cause problems rather than DOES as you say.

I agree On  not spreading bad info.....various levels of throttle control can be used to control how quickly the throttle steps in and in colder climates that can be a tool to help fuel pressure recover faster or not drop at all...but not even that can help fuel pressure if irresponsible boost levels are being used

I will look at the table when I get home but look at the VE table for the high pressure pump...when pressure is lower the pump is operating more efficiently...it's just like the turbos....can they run 20 psi sure are they happier at 13 sure....I'm not saying that 1200 psi fuel pressure is ideal but the stock pump does better there....and just because fuel pressure drops that does not mean air fuels will rise...injector pulsewidth will rise though this is all assuming you are not out of injector...but stock turbos keep you in the safe zone generally...but this is where data logs are invaluable

Can the HPFP run 2900 psi sure but according to the table it's happier being lower

The VE is not the same however for a different pump

I haven't see a direct link of 1500 psi for instance inducing knock...sometimes you may see a spike there and it may be from something else...ive seen knock sensors adding spark at 1500 psi and during boost spikes also

I just can't and won't say that a pressure dip is going to cause eminent failure

At what point is pressure adequate? If 2100 psi is good is 3000 better then we are all running too low...

All the focus on the pump too....the injectors are basically pegged and if you aren't running insufficient fuel flow ,that also can be logged ,it's probably right at that point so everyone may already be on the edge anyway...every one wants a warm and fuzzy feeling about their cars because someone like me says they are ok or a company like livernois says they are safe but that's why I hate magic number values that people throw on cars...but at the end of the day we are all hot rodding these things
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on December 04, 2018, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on December 03, 2018, 10:25:46 PM

Yes all that is well understood.....I think it's more accurate to say lower pump pressure CAN cause problems rather than DOES as you say.

I agree On  not spreading bad info.....various levels of throttle control can be used to control how quickly the throttle steps in and in colder climates that can be a tool to help fuel pressure recover faster or not drop at all...but not even that can help fuel pressure if irresponsible boost levels are being used

OK, not sure where we can agree on this. Firstly, dropping fuel pressure absolutely causes issues. Ideal situations maintain commanded pressure +/- 5% or so. Messing with PID gains to try to bandaid this still leaves a large potential for stuff to go sideways since it's completely reactive to the pressure falling. Pressure drop is absolutely a bad, bad thing on the fuel system, something we will cover more as we continue. Also, most of these functions impact some other aspect of the calibration behind the scenes. Often, calculations for effective combustion pressure limits and other gains get impacted by changing these items.  Basically, changing 1 thing in an EcoBoost never impacts only that 1 thing.

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 03, 2018, 10:25:46 PM


I will look at the table when I get home but look at the VE table for the high pressure pump...when pressure is lower the pump is operating more efficiently...it's just like the turbos....can they run 20 psi sure are they happier at 13 sure....I'm not saying that 1200 psi fuel pressure is ideal but the stock pump does better there....and just because fuel pressure drops that does not mean air fuels will rise...injector pulsewidth will rise though this is all assuming you are not out of injector...but stock turbos keep you in the safe zone generally...but this is where data logs are invaluable

This is very misleading. Every fuel pump on the planet operates more efficiently with less pressure. Pressure, whether Boost, or fuel, is a measure of restriction. The higher the pressure, the more volume is being forced through, and harder said "pump" has to work for similar increases. Injector pulsewidth can't overcome cylinder pressure. Only fuel pressure can do that.  Telling people it's not "ideal, but it runs better there" in terms of the pump is beyond playing with fire. It shows a lack of understanding for the full range of how GDI actually needs to operate. remember, the injector is what delivers the fuel. If the pump flows more, and the injector flows less at the reduced pressure, which one is actually putting the fuel into the cylinder?

Turbos have this same phenomenon for the same reason. Pressure is a measure of restriction. So while all of this might seem like a good "reason" it's ok to run lower pressure, it's not. It's simply how things work. that doesn't mean you should be ok with drops in fuel pressure.

Other damage can happen to these engines other than just running lean. Misfires can cause severe damage to other parts/pieces (especially cats, and turbos). And often, we see failed injectors because of them not firing properly.

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 03, 2018, 10:25:46 PM

Can the HPFP run 2900 psi sure but according to the table it's happier being lower

as mentioned above, that's how every fuel pump works, the pumps happiness is trivial since it is a supporting role only for ensuring proper fuel flow. Pressure is what's needed first and foremost, flow is secondary. Since maintaining pressure can only be done by maintaining flow, your argument is counter-intuitive.

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 03, 2018, 10:25:46 PM

The VE is not the same however for a different pump

I haven't see a direct link of 1500 psi for instance inducing knock...sometimes you may see a spike there and it may be from something else...ive seen knock sensors adding spark at 1500 psi and during boost spikes also

I just can't and won't say that a pressure dip is going to cause eminent failure

Knock, misfires, inadequate fuel delivery, and reduction in power are just some of the more important things that can happen from drops in pressure. Everything you are talking about happens to be reactive items. The knock adder can add timing, until the knock sensor detects knock of course. And this always has a delay in it. Basically just because it's adding timing doesn't mean it's not going to knock. Additionally, what's the refresh rate? I guarantee you that the log is missing an event here or there.

If pressure drops enough it won't even fire the injector because cylinder pressure exceeds rail pressure. You have to remember that, just like Boost pressure on a PFI car ,cylinder pressure directly impacts fuel flow into the cylinder. so 1100psi of cylinder pressure combined with 1500 psi or fail pressure is only 400psi of effective pressure on the injector.



Quote from: AJP turbo on December 03, 2018, 10:25:46 PM

At what point is pressure adequate? If 2100 psi is good is 3000 better then we are all running too low...

All the focus on the pump too....the injectors are basically pegged and if you aren't running insufficient fuel flow ,that also can be logged ,it's probably right at that point so everyone may already be on the edge anyway...every one wants a warm and fuzzy feeling about their cars because someone like me says they are ok or a company like livernois says they are safe but that's why I hate magic number values that people throw on cars...but at the end of the day we are all hot rodding these things


this depends on the specific needs. We have EcoBoost vehicles we command and achieve over 3000 psi with. Certain builds respond better to certain pressures, but some need that much pressure. Increasing pressure automatically increases the usable range of the injector. While doubling the pressure doesn't double flow, it does substantially increase the flow rate of the injector, extending it's capabilities.

The difference as far as people asking what is, or isn't safe it we've got nearly 10 years and 30k+ EcoBoost cars/trucks we've done and had nary an issue with. We can assure people, it's not from disabling safety logic, or dumbing it down. It's been by playing by the rules, understanding how every calibration item plays it's role, and knowing why all these safety limits exist, and how the calibration truly impacts the entire engine as a whole.

in summary, pressure drop is always a negative, and sometimes a major issue. But it will also impact performance, durability, or both. The only way to mitigate this is by installing an upgraded pump and corresponding calibration.

And a reminder to people playing around with E30. These cars are out of fuel in 70+ degree weather on E10 and a tune. Running higher ethanol runs out sooner. Add in colder weather and the term playing with fire is not attention grabbing enough.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on December 04, 2018, 01:24:11 AM
Good discussion going!  BTW who is representing LME this go round?  Sometimes Dan chimes in too :)
Title: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 04, 2018, 06:40:26 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on December 04, 2018, 01:24:11 AM
Good discussion going!  BTW who is representing LME this go round?  Sometimes Dan chimes in too :)

While I like Cody and Anthony a whole lot.. this response doesn't "sound" like either of them...

Perhaps the "Head Calibrator" as Manu suggested? If so, I hope Cody made sure to pass on the thank you for the the updated tune!

And I can't remember that last time we had a really good technical discussion going on.

::popcorn::


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Gjkrisa on December 04, 2018, 06:43:34 AM
Yes very good
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 04, 2018, 06:40:26 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on December 04, 2018, 01:24:11 AM
Good discussion going!  BTW who is representing LME this go round?  Sometimes Dan chimes in too :)

While I like Cody and Anthony a whole lot.. this response doesn't "sound" like either of them...

Perhaps the "Head Calibrator" as Manu suggested? If so, I hope Cody made sure to pass on the thank you for the the updated tune!

And I can't remember that last time we had a really good technical discussion going on.

::popcorn::


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: J-Will on December 04, 2018, 12:14:26 PM
I got a guy. I'll send you his info when I get back to the PC
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on December 02, 2018, 08:01:14 PM
I think LMS Dyno is spot on @ 415whp-465wtq which netted me a Trap Speed of almost 116-mph! Second thought it might be on the conservative side!  Z ;)
Definitely need to get her on the Dyno to see where your @ ! Best of luck.

I need a damn dyno! LoL... it's not from lack of trying...

Although DPs would help... Corsa and DPs are next on the list.. probably January time frame.


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StinkinLinkin13 on December 04, 2018, 03:13:36 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 07:20:12 PM
Yes, I am VERY excited about this latest tune from LMS. Cody messaged me saying him, Anthony, and their "head tuner" stayed late to put this together for me. And the results in the datalog as well as the seat of the pants feel are really really impressive.

Yes, I have bounced around on the tuning front.. Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, Gearhead, and Livernois between my 2010 and 2016 SHO. I have ALWAYS been impressed with how SMOOTH the LMS tune runs and how clean the datalogs look. I may have been at points underwhelmed with the load I see in the datalogs but have never been disappointed in the ET with LMS but more importantly the consistency in their ET/MPH. Glory runs will get respect from a lot... but dialing in and running a low time consistently wins respect AND money.

I will post logs later but a few examples of things that really stand out are..

1: Timing advance on LMS is SMOOTH... I have YET to see another tuner get spark v2 to follow spark.. silky smooth.. people who datalog know what I am talking about..

2: Boost.. when LMS commands boost its not for the mid range of RPMS.. they command it all the way through redline which is impressive. A tuner may say they command 15psi but they taper off hard at the topend.. LMS holds its all the way to shift..

3: cam positioning..if you look at the exhaust and intake cam position it is very different than any other tune.

Based on my various track visits... and I have been talking to BamSHO, BPD1151, and various others.. I am still baffled at how a tune that demands much less load runs just as fast as tune that call for 3-4 psi and more timing(much more load).. I have posted on the forums asking about it...

Needless to say again... Livernois Engineering has shown over and over again through the various tuners that they are able to get the most of this platform. I ran the same times with a tune that pushed 1.65 average load through third gear from one tuner as a tune from LMS that only pushed 1.52 average through third gear...

And I am not just kissing their booty as anyone can attest.. I am the first one to call them out on when I believe they are wrong or misguiding, and with data not just opinion.  I try to be impartial in all reviews as it has shown to be valuable to new people joining the forums (You're welcome Brad for the business :-P ).

All that being said.. THIS LATEST E30 TUNE FROM LME IS THE BEST TUNE I HAVE RECIEVED.

This all sounds fine and dandy for you. Which is great. But For the rest of us... We get what we get from Livernois... I'm looking into E30 tunes myself and it kind of sucks having to buy another tuner and pay someone else to do it using data logs... If I knew then what I new now I most likely would have gone another route with tuner selection. Livernois is great until you get to this point. Which admittedly not everyone will.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 04, 2018, 03:24:22 PM
Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 04, 2018, 03:13:36 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 07:20:12 PM
Yes, I am VERY excited about this latest tune from LMS. Cody messaged me saying him, Anthony, and their "head tuner" stayed late to put this together for me. And the results in the datalog as well as the seat of the pants feel are really really impressive.

Yes, I have bounced around on the tuning front.. Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, Gearhead, and Livernois between my 2010 and 2016 SHO. I have ALWAYS been impressed with how SMOOTH the LMS tune runs and how clean the datalogs look. I may have been at points underwhelmed with the load I see in the datalogs but have never been disappointed in the ET with LMS but more importantly the consistency in their ET/MPH. Glory runs will get respect from a lot... but dialing in and running a low time consistently wins respect AND money.

I will post logs later but a few examples of things that really stand out are..

1: Timing advance on LMS is SMOOTH... I have YET to see another tuner get spark v2 to follow spark.. silky smooth.. people who datalog know what I am talking about..

2: Boost.. when LMS commands boost its not for the mid range of RPMS.. they command it all the way through redline which is impressive. A tuner may say they command 15psi but they taper off hard at the topend.. LMS holds its all the way to shift..

3: cam positioning..if you look at the exhaust and intake cam position it is very different than any other tune.

Based on my various track visits... and I have been talking to BamSHO, BPD1151, and various others.. I am still baffled at how a tune that demands much less load runs just as fast as tune that call for 3-4 psi and more timing(much more load).. I have posted on the forums asking about it...

Needless to say again... Livernois Engineering has shown over and over again through the various tuners that they are able to get the most of this platform. I ran the same times with a tune that pushed 1.65 average load through third gear from one tuner as a tune from LMS that only pushed 1.52 average through third gear...

And I am not just kissing their booty as anyone can attest.. I am the first one to call them out on when I believe they are wrong or misguiding, and with data not just opinion.  I try to be impartial in all reviews as it has shown to be valuable to new people joining the forums (You're welcome Brad for the business :-P ).

All that being said.. THIS LATEST E30 TUNE FROM LME IS THE BEST TUNE I HAVE RECIEVED.

This all sounds fine and dandy for you. Which is great. But For the rest of us... We get what we get from Livernois... I'm looking into E30 tunes myself and it kind of sucks having to buy another tuner and pay someone else to do it using data logs... If I knew then what I new now I most likely would have gone another route with tuner selection. Livernois is great until you get to this point. Which admittedly not everyone will.


It's the triangle right "reliability, performance, and cost".... you will never get all three.




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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: SHOdded on December 04, 2018, 03:34:09 PM
You can get all 3 but you have to fudge :D  Upgrade critical components, and compare to the OLD setup, not the resulting setup!
Title: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 04, 2018, 03:35:59 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on December 04, 2018, 03:34:09 PM
You can get all 3 but you have to fudge :D  Upgrade critical components, and compare to the OLD setup, not the resulting setup!

True... and it's where you want to put your money... a Corsa Exhaust + downpipes cost more than a HPFP...but the HPFP will allow you to run E30 safely... trade offs I suppose.

Which btw should be ordered here soon... ATPs and a trip the LMS hopefully by spring time frame.

My plans for a motor went sideways when the market tanked...my RSU's from my previous employer took a huge hit :-(


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on December 04, 2018, 03:38:40 PM
Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 04, 2018, 03:13:36 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 02, 2018, 07:20:12 PM
Yes, I am VERY excited about this latest tune from LMS. Cody messaged me saying him, Anthony, and their "head tuner" stayed late to put this together for me. And the results in the datalog as well as the seat of the pants feel are really really impressive.

Yes, I have bounced around on the tuning front.. Unleashed, AJPTurbo, BCB, Gearhead, and Livernois between my 2010 and 2016 SHO. I have ALWAYS been impressed with how SMOOTH the LMS tune runs and how clean the datalogs look. I may have been at points underwhelmed with the load I see in the datalogs but have never been disappointed in the ET with LMS but more importantly the consistency in their ET/MPH. Glory runs will get respect from a lot... but dialing in and running a low time consistently wins respect AND money.

I will post logs later but a few examples of things that really stand out are..

1: Timing advance on LMS is SMOOTH... I have YET to see another tuner get spark v2 to follow spark.. silky smooth.. people who datalog know what I am talking about..

2: Boost.. when LMS commands boost its not for the mid range of RPMS.. they command it all the way through redline which is impressive. A tuner may say they command 15psi but they taper off hard at the topend.. LMS holds its all the way to shift..

3: cam positioning..if you look at the exhaust and intake cam position it is very different than any other tune.

Based on my various track visits... and I have been talking to BamSHO, BPD1151, and various others.. I am still baffled at how a tune that demands much less load runs just as fast as tune that call for 3-4 psi and more timing(much more load).. I have posted on the forums asking about it...

Needless to say again... Livernois Engineering has shown over and over again through the various tuners that they are able to get the most of this platform. I ran the same times with a tune that pushed 1.65 average load through third gear from one tuner as a tune from LMS that only pushed 1.52 average through third gear...

And I am not just kissing their booty as anyone can attest.. I am the first one to call them out on when I believe they are wrong or misguiding, and with data not just opinion.  I try to be impartial in all reviews as it has shown to be valuable to new people joining the forums (You're welcome Brad for the business :-P ).

All that being said.. THIS LATEST E30 TUNE FROM LME IS THE BEST TUNE I HAVE RECIEVED.

This all sounds fine and dandy for you. Which is great. But For the rest of us... We get what we get from Livernois... I'm looking into E30 tunes myself and it kind of sucks having to buy another tuner and pay someone else to do it using data logs... If I knew then what I new now I most likely would have gone another route with tuner selection. Livernois is great until you get to this point. Which admittedly not everyone will.
If you were to reach out to us and had the right mods for it we could definitely do the same thing for you, but you need the high pressure fuel pump for anything extra, as we said earlier the taurus sho with E10 when it is not even cold out yet so once the temperature outside actually begins to drop fuel pressure becomes an issue and is pushed past the limit of its fueling, so for us to push a tune like that without the right accommodating mods would just cause issues for peoples vehicles but we have done too many of these cars and know what they can and cannot handle. If you wanted to follow down the same path as steelbluesho we could definitely follow suit for you as well or anyone else as long as it is the correct parameters
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 04, 2018, 06:40:26 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on December 04, 2018, 01:24:11 AM
Good discussion going!  BTW who is representing LME this go round?  Sometimes Dan chimes in too :)

While I like Cody and Anthony a whole lot.. this response doesn't "sound" like either of them...

Perhaps the "Head Calibrator" as Manu suggested? If so, I hope Cody made sure to pass on the thank you for the the updated tune!

And I can't remember that last time we had a really good technical discussion going on.

::popcorn::


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I definitely did don't worry! We have a few different people that check on and make posts on the boards from time to time
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on December 04, 2018, 03:39:58 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 04, 2018, 03:35:59 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on December 04, 2018, 03:34:09 PM
You can get all 3 but you have to fudge :D  Upgrade critical components, and compare to the OLD setup, not the resulting setup!

True... and it's where you want to put your money... a Corsa Exhaust + downpipes cost more than a HPFP...but the HPFP will allow you to run E30 safely... trade offs I suppose.

Which btw should be ordered here soon... ATPs and a trip the LMS hopefully by spring time frame.

My plans for a motor went sideways when the market tanked...my RSU's from my previous employer took a huge hit :-(


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We would love to have the car in here, you definitely need to make the trip as soon as you can!
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on December 05, 2018, 09:41:18 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 04, 2018, 03:41:00 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on December 04, 2018, 03:39:58 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 04, 2018, 03:35:59 PM
Quote from: SHOdded on December 04, 2018, 03:34:09 PM
You can get all 3 but you have to fudge :D  Upgrade critical components, and compare to the OLD setup, not the resulting setup!
We will get everything figured out don't worry!

True... and it's where you want to put your money... a Corsa Exhaust + downpipes cost more than a HPFP...but the HPFP will allow you to run E30 safely... trade offs I suppose.

Which btw should be ordered here soon... ATPs and a trip the LMS hopefully by spring time frame.

My plans for a motor went sideways when the market tanked...my RSU's from my previous employer took a huge hit :-(


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We would love to have the car in here, you definitely need to make the trip as soon as you can!


Trying to iron out the details! Thanks!


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StinkinLinkin13 on December 09, 2018, 06:22:20 PM
So just to be clear... This is NOT the "Severe Firestorm" HPFP is it? Sorry if I missed it in the thread.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 09, 2018, 06:24:34 PM
Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 09, 2018, 06:22:20 PM
So just to be clear... This is NOT the severe duty HPFP is it? Sorry if I missed it in the thread.

No, the Firestorm.


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Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StinkinLinkin13 on December 09, 2018, 06:25:25 PM
Ok Thanks... Quite the price jump between the two.
Title: Re: Livernois Firestorm HPFP Installed
Post by: StealBlueSho on December 09, 2018, 06:27:53 PM
Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on December 09, 2018, 06:25:25 PM
Ok Thanks... Quite the price jump between the two.

Yes there is... and the Firestorm supports enough fuel to generate more power than the stock block can handle...

The severe might be needed for full E85 setups when they figure out the low side fuel pumps...

LMS did say they have a meth tuned SHO running full E85 with just the upgraded Firestorm pump, stock injectors, and stock lpfp...


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