Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => General Discussion => Topic started by: bpd1151 on May 17, 2019, 09:37:05 PM

Title: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on May 17, 2019, 09:37:05 PM
Well, it's with much dismay I find myself writing this. However, as a good friend told me recently, time to rip the proverbial Band-Aid off of/from the wound.

Late last Friday afternoon, with only a mere few hours remaining until I was supposed to retrieve my SHO, I received a completely unexpected call.

My SHO would not be completed.

Keeping this brief, because I don't have any specifics at this time, I was told my built motor suffered an unknown internal component failure that occurred on the dyno during the tune revision process.

The motor has to be dropped, torn down, and diagnosed.

An incredibly unfortunate development. The timing of which couldn't be worse.

Since learning this information, I have had to drop out from the Ford National's. Which is problematic as I was slated to be one of twelve "featured vehicles" at this year's invitational. The staff there was NOT happy about this last minute notification.

I likely won't ever get that opportunity again.

I don't care for this thread to turn into a $h!t show, but thought an explanation was warranted as obviously questions will be asked as to why I was a "no show" as well as to why no updates have been provided since I dropped my SHO off at LMS on April 9th, 2019.

I'm in no position at this time to provide details, or entertain rumors, speculation, etc. as financially this couldn't of come at a worse time given a new house, and a 3rd child entering college this Fall. Least not to mention an understandably upset wife who is questioning how I was able to drive my SHO 4.5hrs away w/o any problems whatsoever, only to be given the aforementioned news I was given.

I have no answers for her, or any of you at this time.

To date, I arranged for a flat bed to remove my vehicle and bring her home. She'll sit for a while until I can figure out how to proceed.

Simply put, that's it. In a nutshell.

I will have to live vicariously through all of your experiences in the short and mid terms.

Thank you all for your time in reading this.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Macgyver on May 17, 2019, 10:39:48 PM
Oh dear.

Well Family first and someday may your SHO breath new life.

Please dont stop posting as your knowledge here is indispensable.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ecoboostsho on May 18, 2019, 12:08:51 AM
Oh wow. I'm very sorry to hear this..

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOdded on May 18, 2019, 12:47:53 AM
Really sorry to hear this, and echo the sentiments above.  Definitely a great loss to the Nationals as well.

Time to chill for a bit, and ponder.  You and the SHO will bounce back in style, as always. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Quikv6 on May 18, 2019, 12:52:16 AM
So I rarely log into this site and the time I do, I see this!! WTF man! I'm so sorry to hear/read this. Your SHO is an ICON of the Gen 4s. Record holder for so many years and so many firsts were accomplished with it. Please keep us posted on what went wrong and what direction you're going. Sad you won't be making it to Carlisle this year.

Kevin
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Gjkrisa on May 18, 2019, 01:43:35 AM
Wow that sucks I couldn't imagine if I was in the same spot and for it to happen at probably the one place for the sho that has lots of pride of tuning in safest parameters.

Be interesting to see what they find.

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on May 18, 2019, 06:43:20 AM
Oh My! So Sorry to hear about this unexpected news!
I guess we cannot predict whats going to happen the next minute!! These things unfortunately happen to the best of us! 
Keep your chin up Bpd1151 and surely you will bounce back better than ever. Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on May 18, 2019, 06:56:34 AM
I am very sorry to hear that this happened!  Your car and you are the very reason I wanted to get my hands on a SHO!  I randomly watched one video of you racing a Boss 302 mustang ...and I said, "What is that?"  I started searching and I really thought it was a typo that the SHO was a TT3.5 AWD.  That front chin spoiler looked so good I knew I wanted that car and that chin spoiler!  I even wanted it in White and found a black and white one to look at in MA.  The black one had 52k and the white had 78k.  I looked at the black one first and decided on the 52k starting point down my road to emulate your build and style. 

Your car has been an icon of this platform and has set the bar for performance and reliability.  Which makes this even harder to digest.  I truly wish you are given no BS explanations or misdiagnosis of what ultimately happened that day on the dyno.  I say that bc I am skeptical of your built motor having said vague issue as you basically added (better) fuel pressure and volume, (better) cooling and (better) spark!   
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on May 18, 2019, 07:51:02 AM
This is most unfortunate to say the least! Yes, you have been on the forefront of development for this platform and have helped move the needle for everyone.

Let alone the help you have provided to a lot of SHO owners that isn't made public since you take the time to respond to people's messages.

I have no doubt you will be back up and running along smashing down some new records sooner rather than later.

Or... perhaps you will have to play catch-up to yours truly ;-)


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on May 18, 2019, 08:28:12 AM
Wow what a sad sad day for the SHO community. Bpd I'm really sorry this happened to you. I really hope you were given proper reasons and explanation for what happened. You have just been so meticulous throughout your build. I guess anything can happen building a car. But that just really sucks. You and your car are an icon and gave us all something to chase. Again like others have said seeing your videos made me want an SHO. Keep your head up better days are coming and that beast will be back one day I just know it.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 76fomoco on May 18, 2019, 10:29:07 AM
Very sorry to hear about this I was also looking forward to your build and to see the next level.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: AJP turbo on May 18, 2019, 12:31:58 PM
Sorry mike...at least summer has not even started yet...sometimes bad things happen to bad people..er um good people I mean

And just goes to show that sometimes good parts and good tunes aren't immune to having bad things happen...we love to have the cake and eat it too but honestly we have basically supercar power in a Ford that really doesn't cost much money
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on May 18, 2019, 02:10:17 PM
Thanks Brad. I'll take that shot over the bow proudly for having made fun of your shoes previously.

But yes, stuff happens.

I find myself on the very literal front end of a fact finding expidition.

Gathering and compiling. In the interim I'll respectively digress and muzzle myself.

Good hearing from 'ya pal.

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Dxlnt1 on May 18, 2019, 03:05:33 PM
Too bad you qualified this post with "no speculation!" That being said, Ill reserve those comments. But yeah what a bummer. But God doesnt allow you to go through stuff that his grace cant get you out of. On a brighter note, you have another car to drive. And a means to pay for repairs. Although it will likely be extremely tight, think of those who have no means of recovery.

Your lead sled will be back soon! No doubt. Your love for your investment wont let it be any other way. Best wishes and speedy recovery for the SHO!
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: TopherSho on May 18, 2019, 03:25:37 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on May 17, 2019, 09:37:05 PM
Well, it's with much dismay I find myself writing this. However, as a good friend told me recently, time to rip the proverbial Band-Aid off of/from the wound.

Late last Friday afternoon, with only a mere few hours remaining until I was supposed to retrieve my SHO, I received a completely unexpected call.

My SHO would not be completed.

Keeping this brief, because I don't have any specifics at this time, I was told my built motor suffered an unknown internal component failure that occurred on the dyno during the tune revision process.

The motor has to be dropped, torn down, and diagnosed.

An incredibly unfortunate development. The timing of which couldn't be worse.

Since learning this information, I have had to drop out from the Ford National's. Which is problematic as I was slated to be one of twelve "featured vehicles" at this year's invitational. The staff there was NOT happy about this last minute notification.

I likely won't ever get that opportunity again.

I don't care for this thread to turn into a $h!t show, but thought an explanation was warranted as obviously questions will be asked as to why I was a "no show" as well as to why no updates have been provided since I dropped my SHO off at LMS on April 9th, 2019.

I'm in no position at this time to provide details, or entertain rumors, speculation, etc. as financially this couldn't of come at a worse time given a new house, and a 3rd child entering college this Fall. Least not to mention an understandably upset wife who is questioning how I was able to drive my SHO 4.5hrs away w/o any problems whatsoever, only to be given the aforementioned news I was given.

I have no answers for her, or any of you at this time.

To date, I arranged for a flat bed to remove my vehicle and bring her home. She'll sit for a while until I can figure out how to proceed.

Simply put, that's it. In a nutshell.

I will have to live vicariously through all of your experiences in the short and mid terms.

Thank you all for your time in reading this.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Sir, I can deeply sympathize,  you have my condolences.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ShoBoat on May 18, 2019, 05:07:23 PM
Oh s*** that really sucks.... really sorry to hear that Mike. My son still talks about your SHO from time to time, that's how much of an impression it made on him when we all met up at the track, maybe 4 or 5 years ago. I am sure it will be back on the road soon. 


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: BlueSHO on May 18, 2019, 07:27:51 PM
Wow I'm in shock. My buddy had shipped his Hellcat charger there and they just finished an engine build. I'm sorry your going through this but you'll be stronger in the end and your amazing SHO will live another day..

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Jordan on May 18, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
OUCH. That freaking sucks! Hopefully it's not something super major...
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ToMang07 on May 19, 2019, 09:03:53 AM
Damn,  that sucks. Sorry to hear man.

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: avidmotion on May 19, 2019, 09:38:40 AM
Ouch! so sorry to hear, as many have said, I saw your videos and thought thats the car for me, and the only other car I could ever afford that was good enough to replace my beloved full on G8. AWD, 6 sp auto twin turbo, 4 doors giant trunk and the ultimate red light to red light Q ship. Hang in there, post as the info comes in. Not sure how your situation will work, but isnt the facility repsoncible for some the financial loss/fixing money? You are at the tip of the ice berg s*** happens. You have alot of friends here, we all feel your pain....
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on May 19, 2019, 01:40:45 PM
With your new mods you basically would have been able to command less boost, and make more power efficiently and quite frankly anything less than 11.54 would have been the new record so I really just don't understand how this could have happened given the new mods installed and I bet there's barely much over 10k or so on that built engine.  The whole thing smells funny. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: AJP turbo on May 19, 2019, 11:56:55 PM
I do hate that this happened to you because I know you love that car and take care of it...I actually remember watching one of your videos way before I got my sho and was like damn these things can be fun

So what is the plan moving forward!
Why did you yank it out of there so fast? How will that help the investigation efforts?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on May 20, 2019, 05:54:17 AM
Purely speculation:  I think to rule out foul play a 3rd party should open up the motor and determine cause of death.  That would be the smartest step if one feels the initial explanation of failure was less than sufficient.  Of course this isn't a human and she can/will come back to life but it sure does feel like a lost loved one.  I don't foresee the new mods causing this to happen.  I would bet this was still within the 500ish awhp range, albiet more but still keeping in mind drivetrain health.  Which leads you to believe once more the engine should have been completely fine as its been validated with 600awhp ...and the new mods increased efficiency...so I believe there was either a problem with the motor build itself and was some sort of ticking time bomb no matter what or there was a fatal tuning error, or new injector failure.  I know of at least one person in the EVO world who built his motor with Cosworth internals and ended up having one of his new injectors stick open.  He wasn't down for long so I don't know the extent of damage or details.    Potential transmission issues were on everyones mind and never was the structural integrity of the motor. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOdded on May 20, 2019, 06:31:39 AM
We should honor bpd's request and not speculate on what "might" have happened.  I am sure in due time, we will come to know the facts :)
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on May 20, 2019, 06:56:35 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on May 20, 2019, 05:54:17 AM
Purely speculation:  I think to rule out foul play a 3rd party should open up the motor and determine cause of death.  That would be the smartest step if one feels the initial explanation of failure was less than sufficient.  Of course this isn't a human and she can/will come back to life but it sure does feel like a lost loved one.  I don't foresee the new mods causing this to happen.  I would bet this was still within the 500ish awhp range, albiet more but still keeping in mind drivetrain health.  Which leads you to believe once more the engine should have been completely fine as its been validated with 600awhp ...and the new mods increased efficiency...so I believe there was either a problem with the motor build itself and was some sort of ticking time bomb no matter what or there was a fatal tuning error, or new injector failure.  I know of at least one person in the EVO world who built his motor with Cosworth internals and ended up having one of his new injectors stick open.  He wasn't down for long so I don't know the extent of damage or details.    Potential transmission issues were on everyones mind and never was the structural integrity of the motor.
In due time for Forensic_analysis! Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on May 20, 2019, 07:22:48 AM
Agreed.  I just can't stop thinking about it.  I will wait for the details to be revieled at their own pace.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on May 20, 2019, 10:05:23 AM
First and foremost, I am sorry to hear about this BPD. That is a tough pill to swallow. The being said.......

I will be that guy. Clearly LMS was having issues tuning something. If people have followed your build recently, using a reasonable amount of deductive reasoning...one modification sticks out in my mind. Now hearing the motor is hurt.....seems something went array. I will not continue my speculation out of respect for BPD.

I am not shocked that the car is not staying at LMS for a tear down on their own dime. If I was LMS I would be making this "right" regardless of lose. Their motor, mostly their parts or parts recommended by them, their tune, and a catastrophic failure on their dyno..... Even being an "elite" customer of theirs, I am not again shocked at the treatment you are receiving. I lost all respect for LMS after the whole V11 debacle, this is the frosting and sprinkles for my cake.

I would not let LMS tune my non existent lawnmower.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOdded on May 20, 2019, 10:11:12 AM
Ok, my post above was NOT a suggestion.  Unless bpd states otherwise, please DO NOT SPECULATE!!!
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bamsho on May 20, 2019, 04:04:11 PM
Yes please as Manu suggested, please keep it down till more is known. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOhobo on May 20, 2019, 06:46:30 PM
Sad to hear man...I certainly hope that after the dust settles she is back on the road again soon...we cannot lose such an iconic ground breaking SHO.  I will resist speculation but will say IF it is LMS error I would certainly hope that the would make it right or at least offer heavily discounted parts and labor.  Good luck - it's like losing a beloved pet - IMHO.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: limited02 on May 20, 2019, 07:05:45 PM
Sorry to hear Mike! Best of luck going forward and hopefully the goals you were searching for will be a reality sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: FLEXXX on May 21, 2019, 10:14:06 AM
That sucks, been there, not fun. .
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on May 31, 2019, 08:13:59 PM
Welp..... motor's out. Brought it over to the machine shop for dissection and in depth analysis.

I'l get to the bottom of what happened, and why at some point in time.

I will say this, the spark plugs, even though they were new, and was told by staff at LMS they needed replacement, are PERFECTLY FINE.

In fact, my guy locally, has reinstalled them into his own personal Ford Flex, and has been running them WITHOUT ISSUE to date.

Also, HUGE KUDOS TO MATT @ Gearhead Motorsports[/U] for immersing himself into the picture, and providing LMS with the necessary info, values, etc. to get the Deatschwerks injectors working, even though I was told that the values weren't there by LMS staff. The fact that Matt had no dog in this fight, but offered his assistance, is beyond any words I can type. A huge thank you seems somehow not sufficient for him having lent his assistance.

That said, as I obtain details and such, it goes w/o saying, I was told that only ONE (partial) DYNO PULL was performed, before the car was removed (from the dyno) and parked due to observed problems.

Oddly, there was an 11 mile difference on the odometer between when my car was dropped off at LMS (on April 9th, 2019) to when my car was retrieved from their facility by Grand Beach Towing on Monday 05/13/2019.

Seems awfully interesting that I heard ZERO from their staff between 04/09 & 04/24 in regards to my car's status, even though I was assured on the front end, that the dyno work should last no longer than 1 week up front.

Awfully odd that there's an 11 mile difference in the odometer and only one (partial) dyno was performed over the course of 4 full weeks. That's one helluva dyno session! Ha! Geezuz.

Anyhow, I digress. For now.

Moving along, still incredibly incensed and miffed that I am missing the giant Ford National's @ Carlisle for 2019. Apparently I was listed to be #62 in their all time history of "featured cars". Bittersweet as some fellow owners sent me literature that my car was listed in the official display materials.

My goal right now is to document, document, and document. Then hopefully come back from this set back even better than before.

I am thankful for LMS having provided me with the (positive) memories of what now seems to be, for all inclusive purposes..... yesteryear..... but I am also looking forward at the horizon and seeing what lies ahead as I come back from this, with the goal being ever better than before.

More details to come as they occur. Just a quick update of you will, to hopefully ease some of those that are yearning for details.

Thanks for staying tuned!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/a2457fc2b33c55e495391e3639871237.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/813f84e986b6a2250731390964e98755.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/82c5901b945918337bdb0d09840e9d90.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/5e478397f7d7e388808c4a601c90e33c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/d14624b265f99f5db67ffc39571214b8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/266334d2f89d9fd4bf9b12d5bb4aa2ef.jpg)

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOdded on May 31, 2019, 11:12:13 PM
Glad you are staying positive, and I second the :thumb: :thumb: to Matt for helping out with the upgrades. It is just unbelieveable what all has gone on with your car, but I also believe the best is yet to come.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Jordan on May 31, 2019, 11:32:29 PM
Hopefully get something figured out soon! I bet the 11 miles could of been low rpm "cruising" on the dyno to make sure everything was in good condition before the partial pull. At least I am hoping that is what it is from.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 01, 2019, 07:04:05 AM
Glad you're keeping your Chin & positivety Up!
In regards to the Spark plugs the same thing happened to me as they installed their own precision gapped plugs even when questioned they are new! Dunno! Z

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https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=7881.60 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=7881.60)
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on June 01, 2019, 08:47:57 AM
You are much calmer and more mature then I would be about this. I wish you the best in getting the beast back together. I don't even know you yet I feel horribly bad for you about the Nationals. We all can tell how much that honor meant to you. Like many have said keep your chin up like you are. Better days are ahead for you and the SHO
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on June 01, 2019, 08:54:45 AM
I just still can't believe it but I guess it's still something we all face in search of the limits of our cars.  Just isnt right as my intuition says this was not an accident more like a snowball effect of negligence.  That 11 miles could have also been a showboating joyride too along with other less than stellar decisions. 

I've worked at a Performance shop before and I've seen not only service techs taking customer cars for joyride but also even body shop techs participating in the action....11 miles on the OD....this is all I see in my mind's eye..those memories
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: TopherSho on June 01, 2019, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: 802SHO on June 01, 2019, 08:54:45 AM
I just still can't believe it but I guess it's still something we all face in search of the limits of our cars.  Just isnt right as my intuition says this was not an accident more like a snowball effect of negligence.  That 11 miles could have also been a showboating joyride too along with other less than stellar decisions. 

I've worked at a Performance shop before and I've seen not only service techs taking customer cars for joyride but also even body shop techs participating in the action....11 miles on the OD....this is all I see in my mind's eye..those memories

I am not defending in any way,  but how long would it take a car strapped onto the dyno take to get the transmission past the warm up to 'hot and ready' state?   I just don't know so im asking to see if that 11 miles fits into a warm up period from a 2-3 day long cold-parked state ..

BUT that being said BIG shops.. use shop cams.  wheres the shop came footage of the dyno run?

ok im putting down the stick,  i dont want to stir it up .. but my thoughts center around those 2 points.

BPD, you still have my sympathy,  thought you spent much more and are far more careful than I.

I feel your pain on a block loss.  you are taking way better than i did ..
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on June 01, 2019, 03:32:39 PM
Good point ...perhaps there is a shop cam
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ridered74 on June 01, 2019, 08:25:28 PM
Quote from: 802SHO on June 01, 2019, 03:32:39 PM
Good point ...perhaps there is a shop cam

If there's nothing to hide they would definitely have recorded it. They have lots of videos of their big builds being dyno'd. No doubt they would have been recording this one to put on their channel as well.

https://www.youtube.com/user/LivernoisMotorsports/videos?disable_polymer=1 (https://www.youtube.com/user/LivernoisMotorsports/videos?disable_polymer=1)

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 02, 2019, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on June 01, 2019, 08:47:57 AM
You are much calmer and more mature then I would be about this. I wish you the best in getting the beast back together. I don't even know you yet I feel horribly bad for you about the Nationals. We all can tell how much that honor meant to you. Like many have said keep your chin up like you are. Better days are ahead for you and the SHO

I agree.  I would be angry. 

Mike (BPD) thanks for keeping us updated.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on June 02, 2019, 09:42:30 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 01, 2019, 07:04:05 AMIn regards to the Spark plugs the same thing happened to me as they installed their own precision gapped plugs

Thanks Z.

I think it's a total farce and a way for them to make a quick buck.

There was no reason for them to have swapped out plugs, when the one's I installed were not only new, but also had a mere 274 miles on them.

There's no more "precision" in them gapping them, than you, I, or any other vendor. They're either gapped correctly, or not.

I know mine were, and they are being used currently in a Ford Flex without ZERO ISSUE.

Moving along, I plan on keeping the update(s) coming along, as they occur.

Hope everyone's doing well.


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: GhostlyGrenade on June 05, 2019, 11:27:16 AM
just curious, are you the customer with the spun rod bearing?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: LostnEye on June 06, 2019, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on June 01, 2019, 02:36:40 PM
BUT that being said BIG shops.. use shop cams.  wheres the shop came footage of the dyno run?
I would put money on there being cameras and even more we will never see any video.

Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on June 05, 2019, 11:27:16 AM
just curious, are you the customer with the spun rod bearing?
He said the motor is at the machine shop getting diagnosed. Nothing confirmed yet. Hopefully a relatively cheap fix and it's back better than ever soon enough. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: GhostlyGrenade on June 06, 2019, 02:43:11 PM
well the reason i wondered was because of these: 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOdded on June 06, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
"neglect or poor decision making" Wow.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: jman on June 06, 2019, 04:54:50 PM
"... being a 5 year old motor..."

Hate shops that seem to only want to work on new vehicles and look at yours as a piece of garbage just because its "experienced".
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on June 06, 2019, 05:24:35 PM
The damage was already done before they put it on the dyno? Then why did they put it on the dyno to begin with?

..... here comes the LMS PR machine... I wonder what poor guy they are saddling with that task...


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on June 06, 2019, 05:51:01 PM
What a croc of ****
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: GhostlyGrenade on June 06, 2019, 06:10:44 PM
Maybe they will come forward with the full story and find a path to make it right. LMS is a very common vendor in this community so i am sure they will want to retain customer faith and loyalty. I am very curious as to what happened, because it seemed like it was built right and very well maintained.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on June 06, 2019, 06:45:57 PM
That's a crock of s***. I'm sorry it is. So they knew he made "bad decisions." Yet they made a more horrible one dynoing the car? How does that make any sense? Then turn and blame it on the customer. Friggin classic. I know I better keep quiet don't want to talk bad about the all mighty livernois. They can do no wrong just ask them.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: LostnEye on June 06, 2019, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on June 06, 2019, 02:43:11 PM
well the reason i wondered was because of these:
What forum is that?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 06, 2019, 08:18:56 PM
Under Newest Comments First! Z



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSlvKcG3neo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSlvKcG3neo)

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on June 06, 2019, 08:26:02 PM
Quote from: LostnEye on June 06, 2019, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on June 06, 2019, 02:43:11 PM
well the reason i wondered was because of these:
What forum is that?

Looks like YouTube comments possibly
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on June 06, 2019, 08:36:39 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on June 06, 2019, 08:26:02 PM
Quote from: LostnEye on June 06, 2019, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on June 06, 2019, 02:43:11 PM
well the reason i wondered was because of these:
What forum is that?

Looks like YouTube comments possibly

Youtube... for sure


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 09:26:22 PM
alright, we had hoped the full info would have been disclosed by Mike with his posting because of our long standing relationship, but it's time to clear some things up.

we never once recommended, nor were consulted about the modifications he made. Consulting your tuner BEFORE changing parts is critical, regardless of who that shop may or may not be.

Installing aftermarket injectors, and driving the vehicle without proper tuning is bad on a port injection car, but on a DI car really can be catastrophic

The spark plugs were replaced because Mike didn't want to believe that he wasted money/time on injectors, so it was basically us saying well it's either that, or the plugs. We put plugs in because we were basically being pressed to continue to go down a path we knew would not work.

there was 1 complete dyno pull, 11 miles is from 3 different warm up times, 1 pre plug change (would not rev past 3k or so), 3 or 4 post plug change (would not rev past 3k or so, and a few revisions to just to be thorough), and 1 post injector change (full pull) we are completely disappointed that there is even a remote accusation in what we did while your car was with us

Ultimately, we should have stood our ground on the injectors, we knew they wouldn't work, we knew it should have had stock ones in it, but we let our relationship with Mike soften our approach on what we knew would be an issue (albeit, not to the extent of a rod bearing).

the DW injectors 100% do not work on these cars. not at least when you have the fuel pressure it should have. if you keep them under 1600psi they work, but the problem is that the stock injector at the correct fuel pressure flows more than the DW at lower pressure. So it's not the right path, and since it had our upgraded fuel pump on it wasn't necessary. We let Mike know we spent months working with DW on calibration of these injectors, and no amount of tuning will get them to work at 2300# on these cars. Saying someone "helped us" figure out things we said didn't exist is false. The items we were told to change are not in the 10-12 cars, and do not fix the 13-19 cars. How do we know? we are the ones who found them while working with another DI injector company to develop injectors that will actually work (been revising them for a few years, it's just low priority for them). So no one showed us anything. That "fix" on the 13-19 cars was pirated from a tune we did, and we know as it's not actually calibration changes, but software changes (there is a difference). So we want to be clear, no one told us anything that we didn't already know, they were just 1. incorrect on thinking 10-12's had this (completely different PCM), and 2. incorrect on thinking it fixes the inability of these injectors to open at normal fuel pressure.

So, when you add the fuel contaminated oil from driving without a tune for the injectors, the horrific way it ran under a load with those injectors and the a tune for them, it's easy to see why it spun a bearing.

What is NOT being posted, and is on the edge of disappointing and infuriating is Mike not bothering to post that we offered to pull the engine FOR FREE, tear it down FOR FREE, and, depending on what it was, possibly repair it, you guessed it, FOR FREE.

instead, there's some praise for someone's advice that was not advice at all, and someone that's charging you to do work. Not cool.

Stuff happens, things break, but to disclose only selected parts of the story, twist things or say things that aren't true, and make an accusation that attacks our honesty and integrity is a big deal. We don't care that people know that it spun a rod bearing, it was together over 5 years, set records in more ways than one, probably had more dyno pulls than another other SHO on our dyno (besides our original tuning development stuff), driven hard when the chance arose, and has done so without skipping a beat during all that time.


Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Jordan on June 06, 2019, 09:49:52 PM
So.... let me get this part again. You knew it wouldn't work. Up and down knew it wouldn't work... Say you shouldn't had proceeded and still proceeded. So who broke the car?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: GhostlyGrenade on June 06, 2019, 09:57:35 PM
5 years and lots of records. i hope development continues with this platform and many more records are broken. Thanks for explaining more details about what happened. Hopefully the car is rebuilt soon and comes back even faster than before. Looking forward to more record breaking and more parts developed.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on June 06, 2019, 10:03:10 PM
Half truths.... half the story.... Livernois PR department ramping up the rhetoric.


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 10:06:47 PM
A rod bearing spinning is not the car breaking. it didn't burn up, or break a component.

Once we learned that the car was driven without having a tune in it for the injectors, it added up, which made us check the oil. And yeah, we already said we knew we should have stuck to our guns. that's the beauty of hindsight. It's a reminder that no matter what personal relationships we have with customers, we do things a certain way for a reason. We shouldn't have let Mike persuade us to do something we knew was a waste.

Did you also see where we offered to do all of that work for free? It's not like we threw sand in his eyes. We wanted to help, but it's his car, and his choice. just like the injectors were.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: GhostlyGrenade on June 06, 2019, 10:13:03 PM
i spun a rod bearing years ago driving way too hard on a twisty road. starved the pump with the factory pan...no baffles or extra capacity.
a hard lesson learned when i spent every dime to go faster. i know oil is the main component for long life for any engine. modern tech has made engines and reliabilty unreal by comparison to just 10 years ago even. hopefully an oil sample was obtained for analysis.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Dxlnt1 on June 06, 2019, 10:14:35 PM
It seems to me the because of the longstanding relationship between BPD and LMS, AND LMS offered to diagnose and properly repair for FREE, Mike never would have needed to take the car anywhere! And thus MAY not have. I wouldnt have if I trusted them.

LMS if what you say is true, understand his investment is in ruins. Maybe there was a discussion about your concerns not working. But as someone said, as a reputable shop with all the expertise you have, you would not jeopardize your reputation for a "friend!" Because sometimes friends are wrong and you gotta stand your ground!

My opinion if Mike decides to have someone else repair the car, you should at least be willing to help out on cost. That MAY be the ONLY way he will likely have blind faith in your abilities, integrity and you all can mend this tested relationship!
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 10:18:30 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on June 06, 2019, 10:03:10 PM
Half truths.... half the story.... Livernois PR department ramping up the rhetoric.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

let's do the math

item's disclosed:

engine damaged
time at livernois
mileage at livernois
1 full pull
plugs changed
deadline

items that are not true:
we were shown/told what to change in the calibration
we were misleading OP about mileage/pulls

items not disclosed:
partial pull attempts not possible due to injectors
driven without tune for injectors for unknown mileage
plugs changed because OP didn't believe injectors were fault
Rod bearing failure was known before removal of engine by 3rd party
offered potentially free removal, repair, and reinstall by Livernois
OP didn't pay us anything for parts, or labor for any work provided (dyno, plugs, plugs change, pump install, injector swap, partial removal of engine, reassembly of vehicle)
advanced knowledge of injectors not working
car was close to deadline because injector change not ok'd until about 1 week before deadline, and we had to wait for stock ones to be cleaned/flowed rather than installing new ones

PR machine this is not, try someone that was right there the entire time throughout the process
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on June 06, 2019, 10:14:35 PM
It seems to me the because of the longstanding relationship between BPD and LMS, AND LMS offered to diagnose and properly repair for FREE, Mike never would have needed to take the car anywhere! And thus MAY not have. I wouldnt have if I trusted them.

LMS if what you say is true, understand his investment is in ruins. Maybe there was a discussion about your concerns not working. But as someone said, as a reputable shop with all the expertise you have, you would not jeopardize your reputation for a "friend!" Because sometimes friends are wrong and you gotta stand your ground!

My opinion if Mike decides to have someone else repair the car, you should at least be willing to help out on cost. That MAY be the ONLY way he will likely have blind faith in your abilities, integrity and you all can mend this tested relationship!

we offered to do the work for free, we're not going to pay someone else to do the work. As we said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and when we really look back at this entire thing every bit of advice and suggestions we had were dismissed, and every outside suggestion was taken as gospel.

If we had a Delorean, we would have forced him to put the stock injectors back in it first. Would it have prevented a rod bearing failing? we don't know, maybe the damage was already started from something else and these 2 aspects pushed it over the cliff. We don't know, but we know where it ended up.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on June 06, 2019, 10:34:56 PM
It's wasn't all gonna be free... at least until his driver loaded it up on flatbed..

Like when I was going to have LMS install my turbo upgrades... all the BS involved... never posted it here though... Once I was 100% committed to NOT having LMS do the work and told them so did the offers of free install come out... seems to be a trend...or a CYA... either way...

Again... half truths...

I thought the plugs were fouled out, which is why you said they had to be replaced?

There is A LOT more to this... I am sure Mike will at the appropriate time tell/disclose the full details....


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 06, 2019, 10:48:33 PM
To be fair there is some truth there followed by a hint of underlying issues which in turn can be clarified by the OP to its entirety.

Lets keep our discussions grounded and straight to the point! I appreciate your cooperation on the Topic on hand. TIA. Z

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 10:48:50 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on June 06, 2019, 10:34:56 PM
It's wasn't all gonna be free... at least until his driver loaded it up on flatbed..

Like when I was going to have LMS install my turbo upgrades... all the BS involved... never posted it here though... Once I was 100% committed to NOT having LMS do the work and told them so did the offers of free install come out... seems to be a trend...or a CYA... either way...

Again... half truths...

I thought the plugs were fouled out, which is why you said they had to be replaced?

There is A LOT more to this... I am sure Mike will at the appropriate time tell/disclose the full details....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you were on the phone for the calls? I was there. He was offered more than likely free, and we said we'd start tearing into it right away. I had our guys start within about 20 minutes and then a truck showed up for it the next business day as we were dropping the cradle out. Then another call was made as none of us had any idea why a flatbed was here for it after already letting him know it was free. we reiterated about 5 times what we intended on doing, he decided not to, so we reassembled the car for him.

Your situation was different, you got jerked around by a sales person, had a long, long conversation with us about it, and we let you know he was no longer employed here for various reasons.

you informed us you weren't going to have us do the install, and had a much better understanding of what the various costs were on the estimate that that sales person didn't understand. Upon circling back internally with the info relayed to us by you about the interaction we decided to make one last offer to do free labor to try to help out, and now that's a negative?

I guess no good deed really does go unpunished. We have always operated under the practice of own your mistakes, and if the situation calls for it, help out when you can even if it wasn't our fault.

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 06, 2019, 11:00:36 PM
Both sides of the FULL story should be heard in its entirety and NOT Speculate! Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Dxlnt1 on June 06, 2019, 11:13:24 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on June 06, 2019, 10:14:35 PM
It seems to me the because of the longstanding relationship between BPD and LMS, AND LMS offered to diagnose and properly repair for FREE, Mike never would have needed to take the car anywhere! And thus MAY not have. I wouldnt have if I trusted them.

LMS if what you say is true, understand his investment is in ruins. Maybe there was a discussion about your concerns not working. But as someone said, as a reputable shop with all the expertise you have, you would not jeopardize your reputation for a "friend!" Because sometimes friends are wrong and you gotta stand your ground!

My opinion if Mike decides to have someone else repair the car, you should at least be willing to help out on cost. That MAY be the ONLY way he will likely have blind faith in your abilities, integrity and you all can mend this tested relationship!

we offered to do the work for free, we're not going to pay someone else to do the work. As we said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and when we really look back at this entire thing every bit of advice and suggestions we had were dismissed, and every outside suggestion was taken as gospel.

If we had a Delorean, we would have forced him to put the stock injectors back in it first. Would it have prevented a rod bearing failing? we don't know, maybe the damage was already started from something else and these 2 aspects pushed it over the cliff. We don't know, but we know where it ended up.

Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on June 06, 2019, 10:14:35 PM
It seems to me the because of the longstanding relationship between BPD and LMS, AND LMS offered to diagnose and properly repair for FREE, Mike never would have needed to take the car anywhere! And thus MAY not have. I wouldnt have if I trusted them.

LMS if what you say is true, understand his investment is in ruins. Maybe there was a discussion about your concerns not working. But as someone said, as a reputable shop with all the expertise you have, you would not jeopardize your reputation for a "friend!" Because sometimes friends are wrong and you gotta stand your ground!

My opinion if Mike decides to have someone else repair the car, you should at least be willing to help out on cost. That MAY be the ONLY way he will likely have blind faith in your abilities, integrity and you all can mend this tested relationship!

we offered to do the work for free, we're not going to pay someone else to do the work. As we said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and when we really look back at this entire thing every bit of advice and suggestions we had were dismissed, and every outside suggestion was taken as gospel.

If we had a Delorean, we would have forced him to put the stock injectors back in it first. Would it have prevented a rod bearing failing? we don't know, maybe the damage was already started from something else and these 2 aspects pushed it over the cliff. We don't know, but we know where it ended up.

Its been a long time since I really WORKED on cars. But there are only 2 things that kill a car. Lack of cooling and lack of lubrication. Aside from and injector, valvle, sprocket or anything dislodging itself from the main assembly, it will circle back to one of those 2 items. OR, a possible quality control issue.

I say you should be willing to help bear the cost because, BPD's car has been a living ongoing commercial for LMS on this platform. It is also in both of your best interest for the 2 pioneers on this platform to get it right! However that happens. If you bad mouth him, or he bad mouths you, who loses? YOU! Potential sales, profits, negative publicity from a guy and car that reknowned. Worst thing, he could replace the car with a Toyota Camry and be fine as far as transportation. You will also be fine in that you lost no money on his repairs. But your reputation? WHAT IS THAT REALLY WORTH TO YOU IN MARKETING DOLLARS?

Had it not been for him and others on this forum advising, helping and bolstering you as the go to shop when I bought my 2011, I NEVER would have purchased ANYTHING from you! He had and has history that most do not. Dont sell that short by trying to be "legally" right, step back into some ethics. Mend a relationship so you can both grow from this.

Maybe it gives you more data to tweak your designs/builds. Maybe he doesnt just do "feel good" things for sake of having something new but really tries to assure what is best! Dont lose one of your best customers over this and perhaps a few thousand who come to this board for info, suggestions and recommendations.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on June 06, 2019, 11:15:49 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 10:48:50 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on June 06, 2019, 10:34:56 PM
It's wasn't all gonna be free... at least until his driver loaded it up on flatbed..

Like when I was going to have LMS install my turbo upgrades... all the BS involved... never posted it here though... Once I was 100% committed to NOT having LMS do the work and told them so did the offers of free install come out... seems to be a trend...or a CYA... either way...

Again... half truths...

I thought the plugs were fouled out, which is why you said they had to be replaced?

There is A LOT more to this... I am sure Mike will at the appropriate time tell/disclose the full details....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you were on the phone for the calls? I was there. He was offered more than likely free, and we said we'd start tearing into it right away. I had our guys start within about 20 minutes and then a truck showed up for it the next business day as we were dropping the cradle out. Then another call was made as none of us had any idea why a flatbed was here for it after already letting him know it was free. we reiterated about 5 times what we intended on doing, he decided not to, so we reassembled the car for him.

Your situation was different, you got jerked around by a sales person, had a long, long conversation with us about it, and we let you know he was no longer employed here for various reasons.

you informed us you weren't going to have us do the install, and had a much better understanding of what the various costs were on the estimate that that sales person didn't understand. Upon circling back internally with the info relayed to us by you about the interaction we decided to make one last offer to do free labor to try to help out, and now that's a negative?

I guess no good deed really does go unpunished. We have always operated under the practice of own your mistakes, and if the situation calls for it, help out when you can even if it wasn't our fault.

A: You never told me you fired Cody. As a matter of fact, while talking with Andy, I specifically said that I hope he doesn't get into trouble because he clearly didn't understand what was involved. It would have been a great opportunity for LMS to teach/help Cody. Honestly, when I found out from someone on this forum he had been fired, I felt terrible, as that wasn't my intent as per our conversation.

B: No, the offer of a free install wasn't negative. However, the phone call from Andy started as "I know you said no, but he were able to work out a solution, do you mind looking at this quote?" And my response was that I was no longer interested. And then the underhanded "Well that's a shame cause we were gonna give you a free install" came. So the offer clearly didn't feel sound sincere. More of a CYA.

C: I wasn't on the phone calls for sure... but then again... who knows who was looped in...





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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 11:27:45 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on June 06, 2019, 11:15:49 PM
A: You never told me you fired Cody. As a matter of fact, while talking with Andy, I specifically said that I hope he doesn't get into trouble because he clearly didn't understand what was involved. It would have been a great opportunity for LMS to teach/help Cody. Honestly, when I found out from someone on this forum he had been fired, I felt terrible, as that wasn't my intent as per our conversation.

B: No, the offer of a free install wasn't negative. However, the phone call from Andy started as "I know you said no, but he were able to work out a solution, do you mind looking at this quote?" And my response was that I was no longer interested. And then the underhanded "Well that's a shame cause we were gonna give you a free install" came. So the offer clearly didn't feel sound sincere. More of a CYA.

C: I wasn't on the phone calls for sure... but then again... who knows who was looped in...

You're assuming what specifically happened with an individual and tying it directly to your interaction. We never said this was the situation, we never said the person was let go, we said he wasn't here for various reasons. Those reasons could be resignation, termination, or lay off. I think you're giving yourself too much credit.

It wasn't lack of sincerity, it was being bummed because we felt we worked up a really good deal for you and you didn't even want to see it. I could show you the timestamps on conversations where we decided to do that before you said you didn't want to see the revised estimate.

I honestly don't know what has happened to so many of you to have such distrust of others. It's actually really sad to see.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 11:35:31 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on June 06, 2019, 11:13:24 PM
Its been a long time since I really WORKED on cars. But there are only 2 things that kill a car. Lack of cooling and lack of lubrication. Aside from and injector, valvle, sprocket or anything dislodging itself from the main assembly, it will circle back to one of those 2 items. OR, a possible quality control issue.

I say you should be willing to help bear the cost because, BPD's car has been a living ongoing commercial for LMS on this platform. It is also in both of your best interest for the 2 pioneers on this platform to get it right! However that happens. If you bad mouth him, or he bad mouths you, who loses? YOU! Potential sales, profits, negative publicity from a guy and car that reknowned. Worst thing, he could replace the car with a Toyota Camry and be fine as far as transportation. You will also be fine in that you lost no money on his repairs. But your reputation? WHAT IS THAT REALLY WORTH TO YOU IN MARKETING DOLLARS?

Had it not been for him and others on this forum advising, helping and bolstering you as the go to shop when I bought my 2011, I NEVER would have purchased ANYTHING from you! He had and has history that most do not. Dont sell that short by trying to be "legally" right, step back into some ethics. Mend a relationship so you can both grow from this.

Maybe it gives you more data to tweak your designs/builds. Maybe he doesnt just do "feel good" things for sake of having something new but really tries to assure what is best! Dont lose one of your best customers over this and perhaps a few thousand who come to this board for info, suggestions and recommendations.

We built the engine over 5 years ago, even Ford doesn't warranty an engine that long and that's when it makes half the power Mike's made. We offered to handle it, him declining and taking it elsewhere and thinking we should pay is odd to say the least. To us transparency is the most important aspect of any relationship. professional, personal, and those that involve both aspects. We were through the entire process, and are being so right now.

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Dxlnt1 on June 07, 2019, 01:05:13 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 11:35:31 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on June 06, 2019, 11:13:24 PM
Its been a long time since I really WORKED on cars. But there are only 2 things that kill a car. Lack of cooling and lack of lubrication. Aside from and injector, valvle, sprocket or anything dislodging itself from the main assembly, it will circle back to one of those 2 items. OR, a possible quality control issue.

I say you should be willing to help bear the cost because, BPD's car has been a living ongoing commercial for LMS on this platform. It is also in both of your best interest for the 2 pioneers on this platform to get it right! However that happens. If you bad mouth him, or he bad mouths you, who loses? YOU! Potential sales, profits, negative publicity from a guy and car that reknowned. Worst thing, he could replace the car with a Toyota Camry and be fine as far as transportation. You will also be fine in that you lost no money on his repairs. But your reputation? WHAT IS THAT REALLY WORTH TO YOU IN MARKETING DOLLARS?

Had it not been for him and others on this forum advising, helping and bolstering you as the go to shop when I bought my 2011, I NEVER would have purchased ANYTHING from you! He had and has history that most do not. Dont sell that short by trying to be "legally" right, step back into some ethics. Mend a relationship so you can both grow from this.

Maybe it gives you more data to tweak your designs/builds. Maybe he doesnt just do "feel good" things for sake of having something new but really tries to assure what is best! Dont lose one of your best customers over this and perhaps a few thousand who come to this board for info, suggestions and recommendations.

We built the engine over 5 years ago, even Ford doesn't warranty an engine that long and that's when it makes half the power Mike's made. We offered to handle it, him declining and taking it elsewhere and thinking we should pay is odd to say the least. To us transparency is the most important aspect of any relationship. professional, personal, and those that involve both aspects. We were through the entire process, and are being so right now.

I havent read him asking for any assistance from you. Those were my comments and suggestions.

In those 5 years, he has continued coming back to you for various updates, improvements etc. He has won much just as you have. Its hard to put a dollar value to what your reputation is worth? Again, I suggest do what you can to mend that relationship. OR, if you write him off what lost opportunities and business will you NOT see in the future as a result? Maybe you care? Maybe you dont? But your business motta should govern here. Best of luck to you both. He may have been among the first for you to really help expand your ecoboost offerings.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 06:57:20 AM
Let's take a break fellas! Z  :smoke:
Curious on what Mike bpd1151 has to say! Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 09:15:55 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 06:57:20 AM
Let's take a break fellas! Z  :smoke:
Curious on what Mike bpd1151 has to say! Z

Z,

Out of respect to you, I will remain silent until Mike's side comes out in this certain matter. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Brucelinc on June 07, 2019, 09:44:25 AM
I am super glad and relieved to see Livernois and especially Dan jump in here.   I have been loyal to LME for years but Mike's situation had me quite concerned that my loyalty was misplaced.   Up to now, the Livernois team has been silent on this subject and that was also concerning.

I am not passing judgement either way but just as a customer and bystander, I appreciate hearing the other side of this story.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

Dan,

I will wait for Mike's response with his side before I delve into this certain situation.

However, just know you guys are already in hot water over the whole V11 debacle.  Your primary fix was, "buy our upgraded HPFP" or here is V11 2.0 which numerous customers scoffed at and jumped ship.  You lost customer confidence when LMS had little to zero explanation on why the tune was straight hot garbage, when called out buy other tuners.  From what I am starting to see, rotating assemblies are starting to failure with the V11 tunes loaded, but you probably know that already.

Add the flip flop of the catch can, when you guys introduced your variant of it.

I can see the writing on the wall Dan.  Whoever, ran this account was completely incompetent and V11 was a straight short cutted hot garbage tune.  It has put a bad taste in our communities mouth, and now add this with "YOUR Flagship Ecoboost SHO" matter, sorry (I am not one bit) if we are completely skeptical. 

You have a uphill battle coming, however I personally believe as a business (which I completely understand) you are starting to phase out the SHO platform. That started to become apparent when LMS rested on their laurels and put out V11.   
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 10:07:00 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

One more thing customer installed larger injectors and drove around for some time then when he told me how the car was running I said "dude you can't drive without a tune!". He sent me the flow sheet and I put a "guess" tune togehter

Sorry I missed this but this is relevant information

Thanks

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 10:17:05 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

Dan,

I will wait for Mike's response with his side before I delve into this certain situation.

However, just know you guys are already in hot water over the whole V11 debacle.  Your primary fix was, "buy our upgraded HPFP" or here is V11 2.0 which numerous customers scoffed at and jumped ship.  You lost customer confidence when LMS had little to zero explanation on why the tune was straight hot garbage, when called out buy other tuners.  From what I am starting to see, rotating assemblies are starting to failure with the V11 tunes loaded, but you probably know that already.

Add the flip flop of the catch can, when you guys introduced your variant of it.

I can see the writing on the wall Dan.  Whoever, ran this account was completely incompetent and V11 was a straight short cutted hot garbage tune.  It has put a bad taste in our communities mouth, and now add this with "YOUR Flagship Ecoboost SHO" matter, sorry (I am not one bit) if we are completely skeptical. 

You have a uphill battle coming, however I personally believe as a business (which I completely understand) you are starting to phase out the SHO platform. That started to become apparent when LMS rested on their laurels and put out V11.   

I don't know of V11 Engine failures but we are on several iterations since then.

And if you think for one minute a car thats got a decent bit mileage and is hopped up won't ever break you are sadly mistaken.

The reason we had issues with V11 is we don't run these cars a lean as the "other tuners". (our problem was the car pulling power and cutting out saving the engine) Look at what the other tuners record are for failed engines. We prolly did

Did Mikes engine fail sure but he's also trying to do stuff the rest of the community isn't doing.

You see this as a opportunity to Bash us great. Read my above post and let me know how you can bash us?

Most these "tuners" have copied our stuff and sell a modified version as "their tune"

Anyway speak about your experiences not other peoples and you will be liked much more

Thanks

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:36:52 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 10:17:05 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

Dan,

I will wait for Mike's response with his side before I delve into this certain situation.

However, just know you guys are already in hot water over the whole V11 debacle.  Your primary fix was, "buy our upgraded HPFP" or here is V11 2.0 which numerous customers scoffed at and jumped ship.  You lost customer confidence when LMS had little to zero explanation on why the tune was straight hot garbage, when called out buy other tuners.  From what I am starting to see, rotating assemblies are starting to failure with the V11 tunes loaded, but you probably know that already.

Add the flip flop of the catch can, when you guys introduced your variant of it.

I can see the writing on the wall Dan.  Whoever, ran this account was completely incompetent and V11 was a straight short cutted hot garbage tune.  It has put a bad taste in our communities mouth, and now add this with "YOUR Flagship Ecoboost SHO" matter, sorry (I am not one bit) if we are completely skeptical. 

You have a uphill battle coming, however I personally believe as a business (which I completely understand) you are starting to phase out the SHO platform. That started to become apparent when LMS rested on their laurels and put out V11.   

I don't know of V11 Engine failures but we are on several iterations since then.

And if you think for one minute a car thats got a decent bit mileage and is hopped up won't ever break you are sadly mistaken.

The reason we had issues with V11 is we don't run these cars a lean as the "other tuners". (our problem was the car pulling power and cutting out saving the engine) Look at what the other tuners record are for failed engines. We prolly did

Did Mikes engine fail sure but he's also trying to do stuff the rest of the community isn't doing.

You see this as a opportunity to Bash us great. Read my above post and let me know how you can bash us?

Most these "tuners" have copied our stuff and sell a modified version as "their tune"

Anyway speak about your experiences not other peoples and you will be liked much more

Thanks

Dan

Dan,

Speak about my experience? I don't have too.  I wouldn't let your company tune my lawn mower much less my SHO.  My stock HFPF E30 tune car is safer and stable (even in cold weather), made more power, and gone faster then your "93 tuned Meth race tune" cars.  Your company continues to flip flop and there has been an exodus in this community that have jumped tuners because your tunes cannot be trusted anymore. 

Fact.

I haven't bashed you on Mike's situation.  Clearly you are inept once again and didn't understand my first statement. I bashed on you and your companies lack of clarity over V11 and flip flops over just the past year. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 10:17:05 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

Dan,

I will wait for Mike's response with his side before I delve into this certain situation.

However, just know you guys are already in hot water over the whole V11 debacle.  Your primary fix was, "buy our upgraded HPFP" or here is V11 2.0 which numerous customers scoffed at and jumped ship.  You lost customer confidence when LMS had little to zero explanation on why the tune was straight hot garbage, when called out buy other tuners.  From what I am starting to see, rotating assemblies are starting to failure with the V11 tunes loaded, but you probably know that already.

Add the flip flop of the catch can, when you guys introduced your variant of it.

I can see the writing on the wall Dan.  Whoever, ran this account was completely incompetent and V11 was a straight short cutted hot garbage tune.  It has put a bad taste in our communities mouth, and now add this with "YOUR Flagship Ecoboost SHO" matter, sorry (I am not one bit) if we are completely skeptical. 

You have a uphill battle coming, however I personally believe as a business (which I completely understand) you are starting to phase out the SHO platform. That started to become apparent when LMS rested on their laurels and put out V11.   

I don't know of V11 Engine failures but we are on several iterations since then.

And if you think for one minute a car thats got a decent bit mileage and is hopped up won't ever break you are sadly mistaken.

The reason we had issues with V11 is we don't run these cars a lean as the "other tuners". (our problem was the car pulling power and cutting out saving the engine) Look at what the other tuners record are for failed engines. We prolly did

Did Mikes engine fail sure but he's also trying to do stuff the rest of the community isn't doing.

You see this as a opportunity to Bash us great. Read my above post and let me know how you can bash us?

Most these "tuners" have copied our stuff and sell a modified version as "their tune"

Anyway speak about your experiences not other peoples and you will be liked much more

Thanks

Dan

I do enjoy this comment..........and I ask one question.

This is straight form your website....

"Our MyCalibrator Touch Tuner is combined with our proprietary tuning software we have more access, more experience, more tuning support, more parts support and far more world records to back us up than any other tune provider in the marketplace."

How proprietary is your tuning software if other tuners have copied your tunes and passed them off as their own?

Sounds like you are misleading the public about your tuning capabilities and using that as a FLAT OUT BS GIMMICK.

I used to praise your company.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:12:31 AM
I think we are steering way off course here and as a (courteous) reminder Lets stick to the TOPIC ON HAND PLEASE! TIA. Z


Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:12:31 AM
I think we are steering off course here and as courteous reminder Lets stick to the TOPIC ON HAND PLEASE! TIA. Z

Z,

Would it be appropriate to start an LMS thread about issues their customers have had with their company, and their tunes?   
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:26:46 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:12:31 AM
I think we are steering off course here and as courteous reminder Lets stick to the TOPIC ON HAND PLEASE! TIA. Z

Z,

Would it be appropriate to start an LMS thread about issues their customers have had with their company, and their tunes?
It should be deemed appropriate but limited to only a member who specifically has experienced such issue in the Vendor section. Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 11:32:42 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:26:46 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:12:31 AM
I think we are steering off course here and as courteous reminder Lets stick to the TOPIC ON HAND PLEASE! TIA. Z

Z,

Would it be appropriate to start an LMS thread about issues their customers have had with their company, and their tunes?
It should be deemed appropriate only by the member who specifically has experienced such issue in the Vendor section. Z

If a member who has had an issue with their LMS tune should post their experience in the Vendor section, I would like submit two threads that both have over 400 posts discussing issues with LMS stemming from my observations in my previous posts here. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Dxlnt1 on June 07, 2019, 11:33:27 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

The insinuation of a lifelong (5 year) warranty is ludicrous. You wanted to help to save face. You both have a lot of time and money invested in his project. I know people and had my own heavily modified engine internals. While I never got a 5 year warranty, the cars ran great, fast and reliably for over 15 years until I sold mine.

As I stated you see how quickly your reputation is being tarnished here. I too have bad incidents/communications with your company but not to the extent that some others have had. Again I say to you, go mend your broken relationship. Like you said that was a conversation between you two.

Mike, if you have any amount of confidence in LMS, then maybe a calmer you can reassess your position here.

Would be great to find a wrecked Ford GT and snatch the drive train from there and stuff it in the SHO! That would likely be my only future mod to this car!
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 11:33:52 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
I do enjoy this comment..........and I ask one question.

This is straight form your website....

"Our MyCalibrator Touch Tuner is combined with our proprietary tuning software we have more access, more experience, more tuning support, more parts support and far more world records to back us up than any other tune provider in the marketplace."

How proprietary is your tuning software if other tuners have copied your tunes and passed them off as their own?

Sounds like you are misleading the public about your tuning capabilities and using that as a FLAT OUT BS GIMMICK.

I used to praise your company.

You might be mistaking PCM software vs Tuning software. One is what the PCM runs off of, the other is what you use to make the changes. We took the time to reverse engineer our own software to tune these. By doing so we figured out ever parameter in the PCM, and what it does. But when we install these changes into the PCM, someone can extract those changes with 3rd party software. What is common practice in the industry is, instead of doing your own hard work, you grab someone's file who has, compare it vs a production file, and only concentrate on finding those changed areas.

This is the behind the scenes world that customers are never told. So yes, there really are times that people are praising other tuners for a straight rip off of our tunes with more spark, leaner WOT fueling, and maybe 2-3 other changes. Why aren't our tunes set up that way? safety.

You're talking about 25+ years of experience with tuning fuel injected vehicles, and being at the leading edge.  this experience has taught us where to draw the line. Unfortunately people for decades have done this same thing with our tunes, and gained 2-3 years of attention by copying and modifying our tunes as their own, and then disappear. all the while we are here, doing what we know is the right thing for out customers.

The v11 situation was fueling, and the PCM protecting the car as it should.

We've covered it before, but it's still important people understand this, if you are out of fuel, you have 3 options:

Add more fueling capability - Best option

Reduce the need for that amount of fuel (reduce power under those conditions that exceed the limit of fueling) - good option, and has the advantage of being free

Reduce the amount of fuel needed only - risky option, because as you lean it out all it's doing is taking a safety net away

people commonly mis-categorize their cars "running ok" or "Making more power" to somehow be indicators of their calibrators skill set. When in reality, WOT is the absolute easiest part of any calibration.

but yes, most of what people have access to in 3rd party software indeed directly traces back to us and our calibrations. And yes, people and companies absolutely have done exactly what we just laid out. In fact, the whole situation with Mike, and someone supposedly having the keys to make the injectors work proved this exact point. It was a straight copy of something we figured out years ago when doing injector testing (which achieved what we wanted to test, but didn't make the injectors work to our standards).

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 10:17:05 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

Dan,

I will wait for Mike's response with his side before I delve into this certain situation.

However, just know you guys are already in hot water over the whole V11 debacle.  Your primary fix was, "buy our upgraded HPFP" or here is V11 2.0 which numerous customers scoffed at and jumped ship.  You lost customer confidence when LMS had little to zero explanation on why the tune was straight hot garbage, when called out buy other tuners.  From what I am starting to see, rotating assemblies are starting to failure with the V11 tunes loaded, but you probably know that already.

Add the flip flop of the catch can, when you guys introduced your variant of it.

I can see the writing on the wall Dan.  Whoever, ran this account was completely incompetent and V11 was a straight short cutted hot garbage tune.  It has put a bad taste in our communities mouth, and now add this with "YOUR Flagship Ecoboost SHO" matter, sorry (I am not one bit) if we are completely skeptical. 

You have a uphill battle coming, however I personally believe as a business (which I completely understand) you are starting to phase out the SHO platform. That started to become apparent when LMS rested on their laurels and put out V11.   

I don't know of V11 Engine failures but we are on several iterations since then.

And if you think for one minute a car thats got a decent bit mileage and is hopped up won't ever break you are sadly mistaken.

The reason we had issues with V11 is we don't run these cars a lean as the "other tuners". (our problem was the car pulling power and cutting out saving the engine) Look at what the other tuners record are for failed engines. We prolly did

Did Mikes engine fail sure but he's also trying to do stuff the rest of the community isn't doing.

You see this as a opportunity to Bash us great. Read my above post and let me know how you can bash us?

Most these "tuners" have copied our stuff and sell a modified version as "their tune"

Anyway speak about your experiences not other peoples and you will be liked much more

Thanks

Dan

I do enjoy this comment..........and I ask one question.

This is straight form your website....

"Our MyCalibrator Touch Tuner is combined with our proprietary tuning software we have more access, more experience, more tuning support, more parts support and far more world records to back us up than any other tune provider in the marketplace."

How proprietary is your tuning software if other tuners have copied your tunes and passed them off as their own?

Sounds like you are misleading the public about your tuning capabilities and using that as a FLAT OUT BS GIMMICK.

I used to praise your company.

Great attacks on the lawn mower!!

No not everyone is perfect and not everyone loves us. I get it

Is our software Proprietary? YES! Its not SCT, or Diablo (although I know those guys very well we all talk)
Do we manufacture our own device? YES
Is it made in the USA? YES! IN MICHIGAN!! Well all but the Screen the LED is made in China sorry cant get a LCD over here
Do we have custom OS? YES! We actually have a full flex fuel tune running and working. Not for sale yet! Coming Soon

I guess you need to elaborate on what our Gimmick is? My above statements are true. We are making tuning Great again! (stole from a buddy)
If making a Handheld device, Using software we have developed to modify the tune, and creating a new OS I don't know what is Gimmicky.

Really what makes people like you hate on companies our our company? Is it success? Or did we piss you off?
We have some really big news on tuning in the near future you should check it out. Promise it will be something you will want

Thanks

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 11:51:11 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 10:17:05 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

Dan,

I will wait for Mike's response with his side before I delve into this certain situation.

However, just know you guys are already in hot water over the whole V11 debacle.  Your primary fix was, "buy our upgraded HPFP" or here is V11 2.0 which numerous customers scoffed at and jumped ship.  You lost customer confidence when LMS had little to zero explanation on why the tune was straight hot garbage, when called out buy other tuners.  From what I am starting to see, rotating assemblies are starting to failure with the V11 tunes loaded, but you probably know that already.

Add the flip flop of the catch can, when you guys introduced your variant of it.

I can see the writing on the wall Dan.  Whoever, ran this account was completely incompetent and V11 was a straight short cutted hot garbage tune.  It has put a bad taste in our communities mouth, and now add this with "YOUR Flagship Ecoboost SHO" matter, sorry (I am not one bit) if we are completely skeptical. 

You have a uphill battle coming, however I personally believe as a business (which I completely understand) you are starting to phase out the SHO platform. That started to become apparent when LMS rested on their laurels and put out V11.   

I don't know of V11 Engine failures but we are on several iterations since then.

And if you think for one minute a car thats got a decent bit mileage and is hopped up won't ever break you are sadly mistaken.

The reason we had issues with V11 is we don't run these cars a lean as the "other tuners". (our problem was the car pulling power and cutting out saving the engine) Look at what the other tuners record are for failed engines. We prolly did

Did Mikes engine fail sure but he's also trying to do stuff the rest of the community isn't doing.

You see this as a opportunity to Bash us great. Read my above post and let me know how you can bash us?

Most these "tuners" have copied our stuff and sell a modified version as "their tune"

Anyway speak about your experiences not other peoples and you will be liked much more

Thanks

Dan

I do enjoy this comment..........and I ask one question.

This is straight form your website....

"Our MyCalibrator Touch Tuner is combined with our proprietary tuning software we have more access, more experience, more tuning support, more parts support and far more world records to back us up than any other tune provider in the marketplace."

How proprietary is your tuning software if other tuners have copied your tunes and passed them off as their own?

Sounds like you are misleading the public about your tuning capabilities and using that as a FLAT OUT BS GIMMICK.

I used to praise your company.

Great attacks on the lawn mower!!

No not everyone is perfect and not everyone loves us. I get it

Is our software Proprietary? YES! Its not SCT, or Diablo (although I know those guys very well we all talk)
Do we manufacture our own device? YES
Is it made in the USA? YES! IN MICHIGAN!! Well all but the Screen the LED is made in China sorry cant get a LCD over here
Do we have custom OS? YES! We actually have a full flex fuel tune running and working. Not for sale yet! Coming Soon

I guess you need to elaborate on what our Gimmick is? My above statements are true. We are making tuning Great again! (stole from a buddy)
If making a Handheld device, Using software we have developed to modify the tune, and creating a new OS I don't know what is Gimmicky.

Really what makes people like you hate on companies our our company? Is it success? Or did we piss you off?
We have some really big news on tuning in the near future you should check it out. Promise it will be something you will want

Thanks

Dan

Dan,

Tell you what.  I am not going to clutter this post anymore, but I will tell you what I will do.  How about, you post a "LMS SHO Community Thread" in the vendors section.  I would ask the moderators to cut this thread it move it over there.  Then we can go and forth about your short falls and continuing fall from grace within our community.  This can give you the personal interaction with our community and you can shore up some issues, because clearly we want it, and clearly you need it.  Ball is in your court bud.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:52:55 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 11:32:42 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:26:46 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 11:15:18 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 11:12:31 AM
I think we are steering off course here and as courteous reminder Lets stick to the TOPIC ON HAND PLEASE! TIA. Z

Z,

Would it be appropriate to start an LMS thread about issues their customers have had with their company, and their tunes?
It should be deemed appropriate only by the member who specifically has experienced such issue in the Vendor section. Z

If a member who has had an issue with their LMS tune should post their experience in the Vendor section, I would like submit two threads that both have over 400 posts discussing issues with LMS stemming from my observations in my previous posts here.
If a specific member has purchased any such product by a vendor on this Board that member is obligated to share his/her experience plain and simple in the vendor section!

Customer service and support is the key to any foundation. Z

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 12:07:28 PM
I think LMS has finished providing there side of the story and waiting on the OP response when duly noted. Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 12:35:48 PM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 11:51:11 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 10:17:05 AM
Quote from: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

This Dan Millen

Anyway super disappointing,

1. Customer has good running car for over 5 Years
2. Customer puts larger injectors in not tuned for and drives car for some amount of time.
3. Livernois doesn't recommend the injectors but against Livernois Will customer insists to use them. We put together a tune "guess" to run better
4. Cutomer Drives car over 5 Hours with a limp around tune.
5. I try and try to get the injectors to work for over a week.
6. Finally I talk to customer let him know 2010-2012 PCM doesn't have the adjustable values to make the injectors work period. (again we didn't want these injectors)
7. Swap to factory Injectors
8. Attempt to dyno and half of a Pull its significantly down on power.
9. Engine making noise. (I heard the noise and figured its a rod bearing)
10. Talk to customer Friday says we will think about it over the weekend
11. Friday I decide we are going to fix it regardless and 100% know its not Livernois Fault (I have been doing this long enough to know what happened) Not worried about getting paid thought customer was good dude. (fuel in the oil from no tune from Injectors thus rod had less lubrication)
12. Monday Tow truck is here to pick up car. Customer tried to call me over weekend but I figured I would call back Monday
13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free
14. Tow truck is here waiting I offered to pay tow guy expense and just leave car here. I let customer know we have some time now and the offer to fix for free may not be there especially in middle of summer.
15. Here we are now discussing this and I bet we could of had fixed for Carlisle.

Unbelievable how horrible this situation can be for some company or someone who was just trying to help. Customer has not PAID anything, stuff we did, parts, labor or my time.

I expect Mike to come on here and relay the above facts are true.

Happy Friday

Dan

Dan,

I will wait for Mike's response with his side before I delve into this certain situation.

However, just know you guys are already in hot water over the whole V11 debacle.  Your primary fix was, "buy our upgraded HPFP" or here is V11 2.0 which numerous customers scoffed at and jumped ship.  You lost customer confidence when LMS had little to zero explanation on why the tune was straight hot garbage, when called out buy other tuners.  From what I am starting to see, rotating assemblies are starting to failure with the V11 tunes loaded, but you probably know that already.

Add the flip flop of the catch can, when you guys introduced your variant of it.

I can see the writing on the wall Dan.  Whoever, ran this account was completely incompetent and V11 was a straight short cutted hot garbage tune.  It has put a bad taste in our communities mouth, and now add this with "YOUR Flagship Ecoboost SHO" matter, sorry (I am not one bit) if we are completely skeptical. 

You have a uphill battle coming, however I personally believe as a business (which I completely understand) you are starting to phase out the SHO platform. That started to become apparent when LMS rested on their laurels and put out V11.   

I don't know of V11 Engine failures but we are on several iterations since then.

And if you think for one minute a car thats got a decent bit mileage and is hopped up won't ever break you are sadly mistaken.

The reason we had issues with V11 is we don't run these cars a lean as the "other tuners". (our problem was the car pulling power and cutting out saving the engine) Look at what the other tuners record are for failed engines. We prolly did

Did Mikes engine fail sure but he's also trying to do stuff the rest of the community isn't doing.

You see this as a opportunity to Bash us great. Read my above post and let me know how you can bash us?

Most these "tuners" have copied our stuff and sell a modified version as "their tune"

Anyway speak about your experiences not other peoples and you will be liked much more

Thanks

Dan

I do enjoy this comment..........and I ask one question.

This is straight form your website....

"Our MyCalibrator Touch Tuner is combined with our proprietary tuning software we have more access, more experience, more tuning support, more parts support and far more world records to back us up than any other tune provider in the marketplace."

How proprietary is your tuning software if other tuners have copied your tunes and passed them off as their own?

Sounds like you are misleading the public about your tuning capabilities and using that as a FLAT OUT BS GIMMICK.

I used to praise your company.

Great attacks on the lawn mower!!

No not everyone is perfect and not everyone loves us. I get it

Is our software Proprietary? YES! Its not SCT, or Diablo (although I know those guys very well we all talk)
Do we manufacture our own device? YES
Is it made in the USA? YES! IN MICHIGAN!! Well all but the Screen the LED is made in China sorry cant get a LCD over here
Do we have custom OS? YES! We actually have a full flex fuel tune running and working. Not for sale yet! Coming Soon

I guess you need to elaborate on what our Gimmick is? My above statements are true. We are making tuning Great again! (stole from a buddy)
If making a Handheld device, Using software we have developed to modify the tune, and creating a new OS I don't know what is Gimmicky.

Really what makes people like you hate on companies our our company? Is it success? Or did we piss you off?
We have some really big news on tuning in the near future you should check it out. Promise it will be something you will want

Thanks

Dan

Dan,

Tell you what.  I am not going to clutter this post anymore, but I will tell you what I will do.  How about, you post a "LMS SHO Community Thread" in the vendors section.  I would ask the moderators to cut this thread it move it over there.  Then we can go and forth about your short falls and continuing fall from grace within our community.  This can give you the personal interaction with our community and you can shore up some issues, because clearly we want it, and clearly you need it.  Ball is in your court bud.

I don't think there is any good to come out of discussions with you on our company so if you want to bash us you have that right. I won't start a thread with he said she said. There is no need for that.

On our company we just need to do a good job and let our performance speak for itself. Honestly every year or so there is a new "goto" tuner that improves on what has been done. And in many cases I have seen our tunes ripped right off and a few things changed here and there and sold as "theirs".

We had some customer service problems cause we had bad people here. That stuff is gone and we are back on track. Look we hire humans, some have done a excellent job some not so much. But regardless we never ever leave people out to hang unless they don't want help.  Do we make mistakes? YES. Do we try and fix them? YES

That's all I can ask for as a consumer.

But please please if someone or you have a legitimate problem call in well do our best to fix the situation. Hell Post something on a forum and be willing to work with us, that's all I ask. It does seem like some people just want to be able to badmouth a company and wont take help. I never been like that life it to short.

You see the post about Mike and those are the facts. Promise I will wager my reputation on this situation. Ask around if you or anyone else know me and how I operate I beg you to prove me wrong.

Regards

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on June 07, 2019, 12:56:10 PM
@- Dan from LMS Respectively think you made your point loud and clear and need to move on!
As mentioned earlier waiting on the OP Response as duly noted.TIA. Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on June 07, 2019, 01:09:53 PM
Dan,

This isn't about Mike's post. My comments were about your company and my issues that I have seen over the past year. 

I have asked you to take this conversation between us to your own thread. I have numerous rebuttals to your comments. There we can engage with the community, and you can have the opportunity to save face about the issues that have been brought forward.

If you choose not too, then that speaks volumes. It again puts even more doubt to your credibility within our community. 

Best Wishes and Cheers,

Easton

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on June 07, 2019, 01:12:16 PM
I have no dog in this fight at all. I'm reading from a far and gathering info that's available to us. But you guys knew he installed these injectors correct? You knew they wouldn't work correct? You provided a simple get by limp it down here tune. Ok so how didn't you know the oil would be washed down with fuel? You learned this after calling the customer? You knew he drove it there. Now I understand it's a rod bearing this could of started months ago. This could of happened with stock injectors. Trust me I get it race parts, performance parts or any part can fail. Nothing is perfect. No one here is hating on you for your accomplishments. The hate is coming from your "we are the greatest and invented everything" attitude. You have done a lot for a lot of cars. No one has ever said you haven't. But you guys act like you invented everything and everyone copies from you. It's like listening to Howard Stern.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: GhostlyGrenade on June 07, 2019, 01:26:19 PM
i want to say if we put this much effort in sharing what works and what doesn't, we will be a far better community. Knowledge comes from experience, our own and others. lets get something positive from this. obviously the SHO/flex/explorer is the underdog of ecoboost so we don't have the benefit of thousands upon thousands of people trying aftermarket parts...hell we don't have much of an aftermarket yet, but it is growing. i applaud anyone who develops something for this platform. i am hoping to put a lot more mods on mine when time allows it.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: griggs95 on June 07, 2019, 03:01:39 PM
i can really sympathize with the entire situation on both sides. The car thing is not what it was several years ago and modern technology is so complex, that things of this nature are certain to happen.

BDP's car is one that's being pushed to the limit (I feel) and something like this was almost bound to happen at some point. I see LMS's point as a former business owner and it is tough to have something like this happen, but it does. It really appears they're trying, and have tried to help fix this. There explanation thus far makes a lot of sense.

I thank LMS for the pioneering they've done to date and understand how tough this type of business is. I would never get into it myself and am glad they have the balls to continue, and hopefully keep the ecoboost platform strong.

I hope for a peaceful resolution and I think it can be done. LMS seams very professional and I can tell from BDP's years of posts, that he is as well.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: TopherSho on June 07, 2019, 03:20:41 PM
Can we lock this thread until BPD is ready to reply ? 

It would be good to keep it calm and level and not leave people and organizations distrusting or maligning each other by reactions to an incomplete diagnosis and issue understanding ..
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bamsho on June 07, 2019, 04:01:14 PM
I have been in the loop from the beginning of this, and there is definitely more too it. Mike will have an answers and results soon.  That's all I can say at this time.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 04:16:21 PM
For obvious reasons, this thread will now be locked until bpd/Mike asks us to reopen it.  Any attempt at spawning threads related to this topic will be summarily squashed.  Thank you.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 08:50:01 PM
Wow. Great to see all the interest here. As I stated from the beginning, I had no desire for this to turn into a proverbial $h!t show. Now with that said.....

I realize that parts break. It happens. It also goes without saying, that I have been OVERLY OCD on maintenance. I've learned quite a bit since the failure was communicated to me. In hindsight, I should've taken this so called "built motor" to task and beaten the snot out of it, right out of the gate. I now know it wouldn't of lasted as long as it had.

Anyhow, I want to keep this update as concise as possible. If questions arise, or the conversation develops, whereas additional clarification is needed and/or requested, then by all means, I'll expound.

Let's move onto the reports!

So, here is the oil analysis from Blackstone Laboratories:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12Bkw3duA72HEQMILyiD4PJzIE9kFEttS/view?usp=drivesdk

Also, here is the report from the local machine shop who I had tear this motor down, as well as perfom an in-depth forensic analysis upon same:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9TsCV9YXmrFd293bnZCLXJEREZhVWduZFB4clFiTzdtQmd3/view?usp=drivesdk

I have/had no affiliation with either of the above vendors prior to me having asked them to perform their respective services. I thought this was/is important as I wanted to have completely neutral, 3rd parties involved in this, so as to provide me with unbiased facts.

Some pictures sent to me by the machine shop, depicting the less than stellar machining and what not are below.

Any questions, comments? LMK.
    (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/05256380bfb36c46b13c11fd2dc721ee.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/27f7ce659496ff54259a57ccb5e6b9af.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/978859566f382821a80bfd1ce1d31aa9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/77e7bf59b904174d055db9ae5f0d3ba1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/e403b3ba7607d670b33d32b6d78171f0.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/bcb6fa433f621eaa1c8cff39a1b22acb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/ffee8d1e7b02c62acc39f6cf6d4027b6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/24bd3084d7ec257cea159d7b42114ab7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/81b7f7172cb79437af554ece35f5f93d.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 12, 2019, 09:02:45 PM
Interesting....I have built and have had built numerous forged motors in my days. Mike, did LMS give you a built sheet with specs like this?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on July 12, 2019, 09:03:39 PM
I thought it was a closed deck? At least that's what LMS claimed at one point on the forums iirc...

Also... the Blackstone report states trace amount of fuel dilution in the oil? Interesting as that's what LMS said caused the failure?

Sorry to hear about this... hopefully things will turn around and new records will be set...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 09:12:32 PM


Quote from: StealBlueSHO on July 12, 2019, 09:03:39 PM
I thought it was a closed deck? At least that's what LMS claimed at one point on the forums iirc...

Also... the Blackstone report states trace amount of fuel dilution in the oil? Interesting as that's what LMS said caused the failure?

Sorry to hear about this... hopefully things will turn around and new records will be set...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was told it was a closed deck design, yes. I was also told that the oil passages had been modified to allow for better cooling/lubrication, etc.

Neither instance appeared to be the case.

As far as the oil report, I found that interesting too. Including the estimated mileage of the oil. The report seems to contradict what was claimed to have been done.

Thanks for the condolences. I've been working a butt load of overtime in recent weeks in order to help offset the cost of a new build. Albeit by a different vendor this time around.

It will be akin to the proverbially Phoenix rising from the ashes.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: SM105K on July 12, 2019, 09:02:45 PM
Interesting....I have built and have had built numerous forged motors in my days. Mike, did LMS give you a built sheet with specs like this?
NOPE.

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on July 12, 2019, 09:16:58 PM
And can someone smarter than me explain how FOUR out of SIX bearings are spun?! On one dyno session that only had 1 pull supposedly?!


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 12, 2019, 09:18:32 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: SM105K on July 12, 2019, 09:02:45 PM
Interesting....I have built and have had built numerous forged motors in my days. Mike, did LMS give you a built sheet with specs like this?
NOPE.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Well that is very telling.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Jordan on July 12, 2019, 09:28:20 PM
Welp. Someone's got some explaining to do
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on July 12, 2019, 09:38:45 PM
I appreciate you keeping us updated their bpd1151 on this whole ordeal and providing the community with pure Factual Data! I hope there is an amicable resolution to this matter which can be had to offset your expenses and all! Best of luck and keep us updated on all counts. Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Quikv6 on July 12, 2019, 09:52:59 PM
I was always under the impression that this was the top of the line LMS closed deck full race engine. Does anyone else have that done or think they have that done on their car? This isn't the first time I've heard of them not doing work they have implied they were doing. Last time was a Coyote Mustang engine where pil pump gears and timing sprockets were left stock and failed on the first 1/4 mile run. They were never good about itemizing their invoices either, so it is looking to be common practice for them to not do what you think is being done, and give you zero documentation supporting your claim.

I HATE THIEVES!!
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on July 12, 2019, 10:39:46 PM
Wow just wow. Thank you for posting that. I feel so bad for you. I hope you come back stronger then ever. Can't wait to see how they blame you yet again for this.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 12, 2019, 11:15:00 PM
On the other thread on SHOForum....Jeff2017 said this...

"LMS blamed the fuel injectors if I remember right. This kind of explains why they suddenly decided to offer to fix the motor for free. Didn't want a detailed analysis of their work."

In my book...that is a open and closed case.

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 11:24:28 PM
And as I replied over there, the "offer" was NOT for everything to be free, as being publicly reported.

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOhobo on July 12, 2019, 11:33:08 PM
Thank you for the update and look forward to the return of the OG baddest A$$ SHO in the world. I have to add, as a proud father, that ur SHO build and ur profession is one of the interests in my sons life that influenced him to change his college major from a Medical Degree to Sociology and Criminology Degree and he will be an Officer of the Law when he graduates next May (is already employed part time as a Master Controller in our local County Jail and has an absolute in once a Deputy postion opens up). I could not be more proud of him.  From when I got my 2015 Ingot Silver non-pp SHO when he was just barely 3mos into legally driving and then up and until now with my 2018 non-pp Burgundy Velvet Metallic Tinted Clearcoat (extreme color description per the Moroney) he has always had free reign to drive my SHOs...he is that responsible and has my full trust obviously. He loves the SHO platform and was bummed when he saw what happened with your baby - as was I.  I know I am not a regular contributor on this forum but I follow it regularly and especially what has happened with your gem/baby and felt compelled to share this with y'all.

Best to u bpd1151 - Mike...we will be following.

Cheers to the SHO - King of the Stop Light Grand Prix!!!!
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 13, 2019, 12:24:06 AM
Thank you SHOhobo and may your son have a lengthy, successful, safe career.

It is full of twists and turns, that I can assure you. Most rewarding. Always challenging, and a few bumps along the way are all to be expected.

My eldest child recently graduated (oddly enough, the bombshell phone call about my motor was initiated on her graduation, May 10th) with 2 Bachelor's in 3yrs, High honors, Summa Cum Laude, and a host of awards.

A federal law enforcement agency offered her a full time gig even prior to graduation. A smart cookie, and will have her Master's completed by the end if this year.

I appreciate you coming out of the wood work, and posting. Thank you.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on July 13, 2019, 06:31:48 AM
The oil report and engine report say it all.  It's hard to really understand why a company as a whole even down to just one single person would not put their best effort into the work they perform, that someone else is paying for and relying on.  Makes me wonder what the mindset is.  Taking price in one's work isn't as common as we'd all like to think.  But coming from such a highly publicised build and highly technical work needed to perform such work....come to find out its not as good as it should have been or downright not even close to what you were led to believe.  It just makes you shake your head.  I just don't get it. 

Call it my intuition or something but I never believed it was the injectors but I do believe they didn't know how to tune them properly.  There's no reason those injectors should have been removed.  Equally so to state the injectors are basically trash....bc they can't get them to work properly?  Again it's that mindset and attitude "we are the best".  What is it, the movie Happy Gilmore where Adam Sandler goes back to school.  One kid in particular was always being a bully and would lash out then say, O'Doille Rules!  Lol it's like shut the ..... Up! 

The way you kept quiet while all this talking back and fourth was very well played.  I'd say 95% of people could not have held their tongue under similar circumstances.  Then to come back with factual information from 3rd party unbiased reports.....that was extremely well played sir. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on July 13, 2019, 07:13:29 AM
To be Fair and straight to the point BOOSTED SHO had some issues a while back with his Built motor IIRC! Z



https://www.youtube.com/embed/EyNCsuWg_Aw
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Jordan on July 13, 2019, 08:18:07 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on July 12, 2019, 09:16:58 PM
And can someone smarter than me explain how FOUR out of SIX bearings are spun?! On one dyno session that only had 1 pull supposedly?!


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Only thing I can think of, however pure speculation, is major over revving the engine
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: lamrith on July 13, 2019, 10:33:04 AM
Quote from: Jordan on July 13, 2019, 08:18:07 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on July 12, 2019, 09:16:58 PM
And can someone smarter than me explain how FOUR out of SIX bearings are spun?! On one dyno session that only had 1 pull supposedly?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only thing I can think of, however pure speculation, is major over revving the engine
Or maybe oil pump failure?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 6500rpm on July 13, 2019, 01:02:40 PM
"Or maybe oil pump failure?"

^^^This was my thought after seeing the damage. It looks like catastrophic loss of oil pressure to see that kind of damage to so many main and rod bearings, and the cam lobe. The damage to the piston skirts is also troubling and typical of what GM had going on their 3.1L engines around 2000/2001 where there was too much clearance and short skirts. The bolt torque issue might be more concerning to an engine builder, I'm not sure how the break away torque relates or is calculated on torque to yield bolts where the final torque is angle rated. I would have expected to see more metals in the oil report considering the bearing damage, but regardless, to me it looks like it either lost oil pressure or the engine was loaded so hard the bearing clearance became stressed. If this was a 5 year old engine (I think that was the reported age), I would have expected the tight bearing clearance to have caused an issue early in life not at this point unless it was load induced or lost oil pressure for some reason. The other disturbing thing to me would be if the block was represented to be closed deck modified?

Edit-
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 06, 2019, 09:26:22 PM
there was 1 complete dyno pull, 11 miles is from 3 different warm up times, 1 pre plug change (would not rev past 3k or so), 3 or 4 post plug change (would not rev past 3k or so, and a few revisions to just to be thorough), and 1 post injector change (full pull)

As I've read this thread multiple times trying to figure out what happened to the engine and the relationship a few things come to mind. LMS stated they also had an oil sample (the results would be good to compare the two). They stated 3 or 4 partial/full pulls on the Dyno, so the data logs might be telling "proven factual data" along with any freeze frame data (codes had to be thrown when all this was happening). At 3k rpm, it sure wasn't over reving and if it lost oil pressure or started knocking on the first pull, unless you were on crack, the reality is that nobody would have continued on past that point. At some point the facts are the facts. I have no clue about what's on a data log on a pull, but as a Tech that uses IDS on Fords daily there's a ton of data available if it's recorded.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: GhostlyGrenade on July 13, 2019, 01:44:42 PM
i have had a few built engines and every single one came with a full build sheet and a parts list breakdown. the very first engine i had built mostly by napa, the ones following were built by local race shops. i cant imagine not receiving that info after a build. it was very handy for additional parts and peace of mind.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on July 13, 2019, 02:00:59 PM
Sorry for your loss BPD...I've been MIA for a while and I just stumbled upon this shitSHO last night while trying to get caught up from my absence.

The only thing truly surprising to me about this disgraceful situation is the fact there was a scratch on your car.

Edited for BrainFail..
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: creepmuzik on July 13, 2019, 06:27:55 PM
I looked at the pics and thought, interesting, no closed deck... then to hear you were to have received one answers all questions I had about the entire situation.  I'm curious as to what the response will be, if any.  My condolences BPD, I recently overcame a bearing failure myself (obv diff circumstances) and am back on the road only to chase either a boost leak or bad turbo.  Good luck in your recovery.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ShoBoat on July 14, 2019, 09:04:59 PM
MF'rs, that looks nothing like the pics in the video. I honestly can't believe how far LMS has fallen, Mike this totally sucks and I honestly don't know what else to say but chin up my friend. Your attitude during a time like this is exemplary.

On the side of LMS not a bright thing to do, of all the people to rip off knowing what you do for a living.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: MKS Tom on July 14, 2019, 10:03:16 PM
This is why the community in general should support the couple turners out there who know what they are doing instead of bicker over "tuner wars" all of the time. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 09:25:54 AM
Quote from: MKS Tom on July 14, 2019, 10:03:16 PM
This is why the community in general should support the couple turners out there who know what they are doing instead of bicker over "tuner wars" all of the time.

That is why I took so long to pick my tuner.  I didn't just run straight to LMS like alot of people do.  I did my diligence.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on July 15, 2019, 10:13:01 AM
I did, I ran straight to LMS like you described.  And boy was I a happy camper....until I installed a way to measure boost(boost gauge) and found very low boost 10-11 psi.  After a bunch of emails it was said to be a problem with the way I hooked it up...so of course I checked everything over....and then decided whatever....until I got the methonal injection kit from LMS and passed up their just over 3k install and installed myself...then downloaded their meth tune...and boost had not changed.  After a lot of research on this forum from the shadows I knew I'd get better taken care of else where....and have more power without adding any new parts.  I joined this forum to switch from Livernois to SCT software and to contact Brad(AJP). 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 12:02:23 PM
So for the longest time after reading this article, I was under the impression that this was actually, "Mike's" motor. 
http://www.fastfordmuscle.com/topic/2587-livernois-builds-world%E2%80%99s-highest-hp-ecoboost-taurus-sho/ (http://www.fastfordmuscle.com/topic/2587-livernois-builds-world%E2%80%99s-highest-hp-ecoboost-taurus-sho/)

In this video, here is a complete break down of the build that was "put" in Mike's car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wlzbNAvhrI&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wlzbNAvhrI&feature=youtu.be)


Mike was this the short block that LMS "put" in your car that they advertised?  Was this the same short block including the heads that was taken apart?

https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP750100 (https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP750100)

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 08:50:01 PM
Wow. Great to see all the interest here. As I stated from the beginning, I had no desire for this to turn into a proverbial $h!t show. Now with that said.....

I realize that parts break. It happens. It also goes without saying, that I have been OVERLY OCD on maintenance. I've learned quite a bit since the failure was communicated to me. In hindsight, I should've taken this so called "built motor" to task and beaten the snot out of it, right out of the gate. I now know it wouldn't of lasted as long as it had.

Anyhow, I want to keep this update as concise as possible. If questions arise, or the conversation develops, whereas additional clarification is needed and/or requested, then by all means, I'll expound.

Let's move onto the reports!

So, here is the oil analysis from Blackstone Laboratories:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12Bkw3duA72HEQMILyiD4PJzIE9kFEttS/view?usp=drivesdk

As previously mentioned, the oil WAS brand new as we already drained it to analyze it and cut open the filter. it wasn't until a towtruck was here unannounced to us that we put fresh oil and a fresh filter on it. Being the injector issue was corrected, of course there isn't contamination in it. No surprise here of course

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 08:50:01 PM
Also, here is the report from the local machine shop who I had tear this motor down, as well as perfom an in-depth forensic analysis upon same:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9TsCV9YXmrFd293bnZCLXJEREZhVWduZFB4clFiTzdtQmd3/view?usp=drivesdk

We record all clearance specifications for all of our builds, and suffice to say what you are reporting here doesn't match what we have recorded with the engine.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 08:50:01 PM
I have/had no affiliation with either of the above vendors prior to me having asked them to perform their respective services. I thought this was/is important as I wanted to have completely neutral, 3rd parties involved in this, so as to provide me with unbiased facts.

Some pictures sent to me by the machine shop, depicting the less than stellar machining and what not are below.

Any questions, comments? LMK.
    (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/05256380bfb36c46b13c11fd2dc721ee.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/27f7ce659496ff54259a57ccb5e6b9af.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/978859566f382821a80bfd1ce1d31aa9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/77e7bf59b904174d055db9ae5f0d3ba1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/e403b3ba7607d670b33d32b6d78171f0.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/bcb6fa433f621eaa1c8cff39a1b22acb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/ffee8d1e7b02c62acc39f6cf6d4027b6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/24bd3084d7ec257cea159d7b42114ab7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/81b7f7172cb79437af554ece35f5f93d.jpg)

and a fair number of these pics confirm our thoughts on the fuel washing. Heavy skirt damage, combined with bearing failure just adds confirmation of what we said.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 12:02:23 PM
So for the longest time after reading this article, I was under the impression that this was actually, "Mike's" motor. 
http://www.fastfordmuscle.com/topic/2587-livernois-builds-world%E2%80%99s-highest-hp-ecoboost-taurus-sho/ (http://www.fastfordmuscle.com/topic/2587-livernois-builds-world%E2%80%99s-highest-hp-ecoboost-taurus-sho/)

In this video, here is a complete break down of the build that was "put" in Mike's car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wlzbNAvhrI&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wlzbNAvhrI&feature=youtu.be)


Mike was this the short block that LMS "put" in your car that they advertised?  Was this the same short block including the heads that was taken apart?

https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP750100 (https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP750100)



this right here. on no invoice, nor marketing item did we ever put that it was a race series engine. He bought, paid for, and received a pro-series engine.

The amount of untrue things being said by Mike is beyond disappointing. And this is just another item on that list. Almost everyone in this thread thinks we pulled a switch-a-roo when it's really Mike not remembering what is in his own car.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 09:12:32 PM

I was told it was a closed deck design, yes. I was also told that the oil passages had been modified to allow for better cooling/lubrication, etc.

Neither instance appeared to be the case.

As far as the oil report, I found that interesting too. Including the estimated mileage of the oil. The report seems to contradict what was claimed to have been done.

Thanks for the condolences. I've been working a butt load of overtime in recent weeks in order to help offset the cost of a new build. Albeit by a different vendor this time around.

It will be akin to the proverbially Phoenix rising from the ashes.

You were never told it was a closed deck, nor had any modifications for oil flow, and the build pictures/videos/invoice all show quite clearly it's an open deck and spell out what parts were being used. The oil report actually CONFIRMS that we drained the oil and put in fresh after the failure.



Quote from: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: SM105K on July 12, 2019, 09:02:45 PM
Interesting....I have built and have had built numerous forged motors in my days. Mike, did LMS give you a built sheet with specs like this?
NOPE.

None was provided because you never asked for one. we keep them for our records.


Quote from: StealBlueSHO on July 12, 2019, 09:03:39 PM

Also... the Blackstone report states trace amount of fuel dilution in the oil? Interesting as that's what LMS said caused the failure?

Sorry to hear about this... hopefully things will turn around and new records will be set...


Right, trace amounts, in brand new oil. So the fuel contamination was high enough in the old oil, that the little bit of oil left in the engine left trace contamination in the brand new oil. still waiting for where anything is posted proving us wrong on the failure.

trace fuel contamination in brand new oil confirms fuel was at play in the old oil

piston skirt scuffing confirms lack of oil film strength on cylinder walls, also confirms fuel was at play

spun bearings and further oil related damage throughout engine confirm insufficient lubrication, which with the other 2 items confirms fuel being the culprit

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 12:37:11 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 12, 2019, 11:24:28 PM
And as I replied over there, the "offer" was NOT for everything to be free, as being publicly reported.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Mike, I was there for the conversation, other than the bill that you had (and by the way, never paid a dime for to this day), and some fluids, yes it was. It was reiterated about 3-4 times as well as we couldn't understand why you weren't on board for free AND getting it done before the Ford nationals.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: ShoBoat on July 14, 2019, 09:04:59 PM
MF'rs, that looks nothing like the pics in the video. I honestly can't believe how far LMS has fallen, Mike this totally sucks and I honestly don't know what else to say but chin up my friend. Your attitude during a time like this is exemplary.

On the side of LMS not a bright thing to do, of all the people to rip off knowing what you do for a living.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

huh? that looks EXACTLY like the video and pics. none of the pics in the video or post have a closed deck, and neither do his pics...
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:00:44 PM
Just to avoid confusion. 

Who is exactly posting for LMS?  Is this Dan Millen himself, if not it should be.  In the past, confusion could have been cleared up if we knew exactly who from LMS is posting.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
I don't care if you are building a lawn mower engine or a top fuel dragster engine. A build sheet should be provided without the customer asking. Any and I mean any shop I've ever dealt with. Whether it was John Kaase race engines or archie's Go kart engines I received a build sheet. It's just proper engine building practices.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
I don't care if you are building a lawn mower engine or a top fuel dragster engine. A build sheet should be provided without the customer asking. Any and I mean any shop I've ever dealt with. Whether it was John Kaase race engines or archie's Go kart engines I received a build sheet. It's just proper engine building practices.

I 100% agree with statement.  I have always received build sheets for engines, and I still have quite a few even though I don't own the cars anymore. I always asked for two copies.  One that went with all of the other built motors in a file, and one that went with a file I made with everything that I had done to that particular car both in my safe. I had my piece of mind, and a way to protect myself from he said, she said. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:56:13 PM
I couldn't agree more. This is all turning into he said she said. Again a customer should never have to ASK for a build sheet. Hell the first motor I ever had built as a kid I didn't even know what a build sheet was. The machine shop forced me to take it.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: GhostlyGrenade on July 15, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
Can we see the build sheet? I think those type of things are interesting.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 04:18:38 PM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:00:44 PM
Just to avoid confusion. 

Who is exactly posting for LMS?  Is this Dan Millen himself, if not it should be.  In the past, confusion could have been cleared up if we knew exactly who from LMS is posting.

This is Dan here I have been looking and confirming what our staff is saying and its all true. Very disappointing how Mike BPD is acting. This is how a company gets treated when you give a customer a deal. Customer puts injectors in without telling me or us. Then says I am going to bring it down for a tune but its running rough. I warned Mike of this before he even brought it. Read the attached Text messages. I don't know how much more clear I could of been. I have broke enough of my own stuff over 25 years to know what happens when you have to much fuel in a car. This being Direct Injection makes the problem even worse.

The people here commenting and feeling bad for Mike should honestly feel bad for us. I have offered to him verbally and publicly on this forum to fix it for free and hopefully you "the community" see Mike created this problem with driving his car. As his text shows "pig rich" thus admitting it was really bad. Thankfully for me/LME and legal purposes I have this documented on my phone.

I wonder why I do nice things for people just to get s*** on.

Lets not paint Mike out to be a perfect person here. Yes hes a law officer (and I respect the hell out of our law and what nonsense our media puts them through) but remember hes human and humans don't always tell the full story. I honestly expected better from him. I can't tell you Mike is lying (judge for yourself) but what I will tell you everything I have posted and offer isn't BS! You can see my offer in line 13 here

Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on June 07, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on June 07, 2019, 12:51:58 AM
Quick question:  who is making these Livernois posts?  Personal curiousity :)

Missteps happen.  Thank you for elaborating on your side of the story!  Now we await Mike's ...

13. Customer is mad we started to work on car. I then said look we will just fix it try to help out. Let customer know we would fix for free


Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on July 15, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
Can we see the build sheet? I think those type of things are interesting.

Why do you need to see the build sheet?

What qualificat
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
I don't care if you are building a lawn mower engine or a top fuel dragster engine. A build sheet should be provided without the customer asking. Any and I mean any shop I've ever dealt with. Whether it was John Kaase race engines or archie's Go kart engines I received a build sheet. It's just proper engine building practices.

I 100% agree with statement.  I have always received build sheets for engines, and I still have quite a few even though I don't own the cars anymore. I always asked for two copies.  One that went with all of the other built motors in a file, and one that went with a file I made with everything that I had done to that particular car both in my safe. I had my piece of mind, and a way to protect myself from he said, she said. 

We don't give build sheets for crate engines nor do many shops. If you do a custom build

We don't give our clearances to customers openly.

Also stop with top fuel I ran a promod car (same engine) and know several of the top fuel guys. Quit talking about stuff you don't know. We put pistons in between rounds. Not one time did we stop and get the tools out to measure the s*** we put back in. Please ok. Your trying to find something here to bash Livernois and its simply not fair. If Mike was concerned with the build sheet he could of asked. Hes got my cell. Not once did he ask. If he did based on the text you seen its pretty apparent I bent over backwards for the guy. I am questioning why I did at this point.

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 04:35:27 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on July 15, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
Can we see the build sheet? I think those type of things are interesting.

Probably can't let you see it until this blows over or people start telling the truth. You are more than welcome to come by I can show you whatever you need to see.

Remember this engine ran for 5 years with the so called "mysterious Build Sheet" is coming into play. Soon as he started changing stuff all the sudden now our engine build is getting questioned. I am pretty sure no OEM is not gonna warranty a engine after 5 years with this kind of abuse.

Where are the people here saying "wow 5 years and record times heavy abuse thats pretty good!)

If I sound irritated I am sorry just can't believe people

Super Disappointing

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 04:37:15 PM
Well, since it appears that Dan wants to continue making himself look innocent in all of this, and to date, I have only posted accurate info for the community to digest and nothing more (certainly not personal attacks and saying I'm the one being dishonest, i.e. attacking my character). I feel compelled to offer a rebuttal as it appears Dan is (no shock here) making this personal..... and if the members here can allow me to post without interrupting for a lil bit, I'd greatly appreciate it. I will have multiple posts in a row, so I can keep pictures properly associated with each post. I'll then advise when I'm done and the community can carry on as it sees fit.

It goes w/o saying that I've had some positive experiences with LMS over the years.  The community also knows my character and my willingness to help, as well as my ongoing desire to post accurate info. Thus my avatar resembling Lt. Cmdr. Data of Star Trek fame.

I, unlike Livernois, have absolutely nothing to gain, nor lose from posting the following information. So taking what they say with a grain of salt is wisely advised. We all know the PR damage control spin machine went into hyperdrive the very moment the flat bed arrived at their facility to retrieve my car. It's to be completely expected.

That said, had this not happened to me personally, I'd have a hard time believing it myself. But I look back now, at all those posts from LMS detractors, as well as those that have had less than stellar experiences with them, and I pause. I Reflect. I then realize that all these years, how much money LMS has made off of my constant and unwavering enthusiastic support for them. Dare I say one of their absolute best supporters all throughout? Consistently promoting them online, in personal conversations, on my own paid for advertising material for both minor and major car show events, etc.

Well, when this recent motor debacle happened, things were said to me, by Dan that left my bottom jaw dropped, awash in bewilderment and I knew then whatever semblance of a friendship we developed, was just flushed down the toilet. Hoping to perhaps still maintain some semblance of a professional, business relationship was my only hope at that point. Well that was thrown out the window when the in depth report came back from the 3rd party, neutral machine shop that did the teardown. All trust was severed at that point and I knew I would never return to them as a customer.

It hurts. Still hurts. And the attempts being made to make themselves look unblemished in all of this, is, as Dan says infuriating and disheartening.

Moving along, I'm not going to quote each of Dan's previous posts, as you all can go back and re-read them for yourselves. But I will do my best to summarize his comments and then divulge from my perspective. You all are big boys and girls and are fully capable of making your own decisions on how to proceed with each of your own vehicles and what vendors you choose. That said, it has never been my intent to disparage LMS, but rather just post the info as experienced. No $h!t shows, remember? Once again, I do appreciate the adult conversation(s) from the members. Info only. You consume as you see fit.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 04:52:07 PM
Conveniently Dan chooses to lop off certain texts messages as it fits his "story". Again an attempt to gloss over the whole story as he keeps claiming to put out there.

So Dan did post my text screenshots..... But what he fails to publicly disclose is that the conversation continued where he cut it off.

April 6th......

I did provide him an itemized list of recent mods completed. I also tell him how far I drove it (8.8 miles or 15min time total) and that I drove it easy. There were CEL'S for rich conditions bank 1 and 2, yes. Which I reported and which were to be expected. Not only cuz of the injectors, but also new wideband 02 sensors being lightning fast. The car idled fine. Drove fine. But knowing tune wasn't optimized, I didn't drive it aggressively. I've been told by several outside of LMS that mere idling or the drive it had, would NOT cause damage. He then proceeds to state the DW Injectors are "junk" and that every car they've used then in, they ripped 'em out and put them in the trash (remember this for later).

Concerned, I ask Dan if he prefers I trailer it, or if he can write me a temporary tune that would allow me to drive it up there safely? He asks about their newest touch screen device, if I've used yet (full disclosure, they did gift me that device last Summer of 2018) then we cease texting and Dan calls and we discuss the following over the phone.... updating the device first, then sending me a temporary revised tune file (of his creation) to allow me to drive it there.

See addt'l texts below.....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/6e33b66be9f2529824ef5c89a70757af.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/24c46cc8464ba6e68be6643bb4640c3f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/e0ad177aff882b876063e844e0ab8817.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on July 15, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
Can we see the build sheet? I think those type of things are interesting.

Why do you need to see the build sheet?

What qualificat
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
I don't care if you are building a lawn mower engine or a top fuel dragster engine. A build sheet should be provided without the customer asking. Any and I mean any shop I've ever dealt with. Whether it was John Kaase race engines or archie's Go kart engines I received a build sheet. It's just proper engine building practices.

I 100% agree with statement.  I have always received build sheets for engines, and I still have quite a few even though I don't own the cars anymore. I always asked for two copies.  One that went with all of the other built motors in a file, and one that went with a file I made with everything that I had done to that particular car both in my safe. I had my piece of mind, and a way to protect myself from he said, she said. 

We don't give build sheets for crate engines nor do many shops. If you do a custom build

We don't give our clearances to customers openly.

Also stop with top fuel I ran a promod car (same engine) and know several of the top fuel guys. Quit talking about stuff you don't know. We put pistons in between rounds. Not one time did we stop and get the tools out to measure the s*** we put back in. Please ok. Your trying to find something here to bash Livernois and its simply not fair. If Mike was concerned with the build sheet he could of asked. Hes got my cell. Not once did he ask. If he did based on the text you seen its pretty apparent I bent over backwards for the guy. I am questioning why I did at this point.

Dan

I hope that your quote and statement wasn't toward me in your statement.  I have been very fair, and tried to keep the dialogue fair for both parties.  I don't have a horse in this race, but other people will in the future.

Moving onto engines of crate engine or not.  I always received a built sheet for all my motors except my junkyards ones.  Those ones I personally pulled.  I don't give a crap if you have secret tolerances or voodoo magic in your build.  I am not a typical customer.  I always put my hands on parts, and actually mark pistons, rods, and all caps when I put my hands on them.  This is in conjunction to a couple of other tricks I picked up while helping buddies build 7.99 index nitrous small blocks.  When the engine builder was done I go and look for all of my marks and other tricks then the short block is complete.  Checks and balances.  I also go over torque specs, and some cases check them myself with my own tq wrench in the shop to see if it matches the build sheet.  If I am spending 6 to 10 grand on an engine, you really think I give a crap on spending money on an airline ticket to make sure my engine is exactly what they say it is?   

I have been screwed before, and now I know how to play the game.  If an engine builder is not willing to meet my demands, they do not get my money period.   
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 05:04:09 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 04:37:15 PM
Well, since it appears that Dan wants to continue making himself look innocent in all of this, and to date, I have only posted accurate info for the community to digest and nothing more (certainly not personal attacks and saying I'm the one being dishonest, i.e. attacking my character). I feel compelled to offer a rebuttal as it appears Dan is (no shock here) making this personal..... and if the members here can allow me to post without interrupting for a lil bit, I'd greatly appreciate it. I will have multiple posts in a row, so I can keep pictures properly associated with each post. I'll then advise when I'm done and the community can carry on as it sees fit.

It goes w/o saying that I've had some positive experiences with LMS over the years.  The community also knows my character and my willingness to help, as well as my ongoing desire to post accurate info. Thus my avatar resembling Lt. Cmdr. Data of Star Trek fame.

I, unlike Livernois, have absolutely nothing to gain, nor lose from posting the following information. So taking what they say with a grain of salt is wisely advised. We all know the PR damage control spin machine went into hyperdrive the very moment the flat bed arrived at their facility to retrieve my car. It's to be completely expected.

That said, had this not happened to me personally, I'd have a hard time believing it myself. But I look back now, at all those posts from LMS detractors, as well as those that have had less than stellar experiences with them, and I pause. I Reflect. I then realize that all these years, how much money LMS has made off of my constant and unwavering enthusiastic support for them. Dare I say one of their absolute best supporters all throughout? Consistently promoting them online, in personal conversations, on my own paid for advertising material for both minor and major car show events, etc.

Well, when this recent motor debacle happened, things were said to me, by Dan that left my bottom jaw dropped, awash in bewilderment and I knew then whatever semblance of a friendship we developed, was just flushed down the toilet. Hoping to perhaps still maintain some semblance of a professional, business relationship was my only hope at that point. Well that was thrown out the window when the in depth report came back from the 3rd party, neutral machine shop that did the teardown. All trust was severed at that point and I knew I would never return to them as a customer.

It hurts. Still hurts. And the attempts being made to make themselves look unblemished in all of this, is, as Dan says infuriating and disheartening.

Moving along, I'm not going to quote each of Dan's previous posts, as you all can go back and re-read them for yourselves. But I will do my best to summarize his comments and then divulge from my perspective. You all are big boys and girls and are fully capable of making your own decisions on how to proceed with each of your own vehicles and what vendors you choose. That said, it has never been my intent to disparage LMS, but rather just post the info as experienced. No $h!t shows, remember? Once again, I do appreciate the adult conversation(s) from the members. Info only. You consume as you see fit.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Not Sure what your goal is here? I myself am curious what you have to gain by not telling the truth here. I offered to fix the car period. And I said I would give it our best shot to get it done for the nations. I would not guarantee it though. You then said your wife is making you take the car home????? Do you remember that? Seriously. Then weeks later I said it again on the board here!!!!!

The damage of the engine the most likely cause is fuel wash. You don't want to believe it. I can't help that. What I can tell you is I offered to fix it period. By you trying to blame us for a perfectly good running engine for 5 years and getting damaged by fuel wash is absurd. You changed parts it caused a problem and it broke...Man up

If this engine broke with 6 months I get it call Livernois and b*tch slap us but come on man. 5 years later?

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 05:05:16 PM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on July 15, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
Can we see the build sheet? I think those type of things are interesting.

Why do you need to see the build sheet?

What qualificat
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
I don't care if you are building a lawn mower engine or a top fuel dragster engine. A build sheet should be provided without the customer asking. Any and I mean any shop I've ever dealt with. Whether it was John Kaase race engines or archie's Go kart engines I received a build sheet. It's just proper engine building practices.

I 100% agree with statement.  I have always received build sheets for engines, and I still have quite a few even though I don't own the cars anymore. I always asked for two copies.  One that went with all of the other built motors in a file, and one that went with a file I made with everything that I had done to that particular car both in my safe. I had my piece of mind, and a way to protect myself from he said, she said. 

We don't give build sheets for crate engines nor do many shops. If you do a custom build

We don't give our clearances to customers openly.

Also stop with top fuel I ran a promod car (same engine) and know several of the top fuel guys. Quit talking about stuff you don't know. We put pistons in between rounds. Not one time did we stop and get the tools out to measure the s*** we put back in. Please ok. Your trying to find something here to bash Livernois and its simply not fair. If Mike was concerned with the build sheet he could of asked. Hes got my cell. Not once did he ask. If he did based on the text you seen its pretty apparent I bent over backwards for the guy. I am questioning why I did at this point.

Dan

I hope that your quote and statement wasn't toward me in your statement.  I have been very fair, and tried to keep the dialogue fair for both parties.  I don't have a horse in this race, but other people will in the future.

Moving onto engines of crate engine or not.  I always received a built sheet for all my motors except my junkyards ones.  Those ones I personally pulled.  I don't give a crap if you have secret tolerances or voodoo magic in your build.  I am not a typical customer.  I always put my hands on parts, and actually mark pistons, rods, and all caps when I put my hands on them.  This is in conjunction to a couple of other tricks I picked up while helping buddies build 7.99 index nitrous small blocks.  When the engine builder was done I go and look for all of my marks and other tricks then the short block is complete.  Checks and balances.  I also go over torque specs, and some cases check them myself with my own tq wrench in the shop to see if it matches the build sheet.  If I am spending 6 to 10 grand on an engine, you really think I give a crap on spending money on an airline ticket to make sure my engine is exactly what they say it is?   

I have been screwed before, and now I know how to play the game.  If an engine builder is not willing to meet my demands, they do not get my money period.   

Seems pretty simple to me. If you asked us for a build sheet you would get it.

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on July 15, 2019, 05:08:00 PM
FYI- Both Mike and LMS should be heard equally without intervention for the time being! I think we should hear both sides of the story and respect that while being mindful! I appreciate your cooperation. Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 05:09:46 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 04:52:07 PM
Conveniently Dan chooses to lop off certain texts messages as it fits his "story". Again an attempt to gloss over the whole story as he keeps claiming to put out there.

So Dan did post my text screenshots..... But what he fails to publicly disclose is that the conversation continued where he cut it off.

April 6th......

I did provide him an itemized list of recent mods completed. I also tell him how far I drove it (8.8 miles or 15min time total) and that I drove it easy. There were CEL'S for rich conditions bank 1 and 2, yes. Which I reported and which were to be expected. Not only cuz of the injectors, but also new wideband 02 sensors being lightning fast. The car idled fine. Drove fine. But knowing tune wasn't optimized, I didn't drive it aggressively. I've been told by several outside of LMS that mere idling or the drive it had, would NOT cause damage. He then proceeds to state the DW Injectors are "junk" and that every car they've used then in, they ripped 'em out and put them in the trash (remember this for later).

Concerned, I ask Dan if he prefers I trailer it, or if he can write me a temporary tune that would allow me to drive it up there safely? He asks about their newest touch screen device, if I've used yet (full disclosure, they did gift me that device last Summer of 2018) then we cease texting and Dan calls and we discuss the following over the phone.... updating the device first, then sending me a temporary revised tune file (of his creation) to allow me to drive it there.

See addt'l texts below.....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/6e33b66be9f2529824ef5c89a70757af.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/24c46cc8464ba6e68be6643bb4640c3f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/e0ad177aff882b876063e844e0ab8817.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



I conveniently put the text messages that mattered. This shows that you don't know much about engines. 5 minutes is enough to trash oil in a direct injection engine.

Can I ask again what the goal is here?

What do you want from us?

You fuel washed your engine and I offered to fix it for free?

Now please help everyone here your goal since you have stated "not to bash LME"

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 05:12:48 PM
April 8th......

Vince in sales was very helpful in working between me, and the person who I was told developed their new touch screen device, in order to get it updated. Once revised tune is sent by Dan, it's uploaded, car is started. Again idled fine. No stumbles. No misfires. Most importantly.... no CEL's! Elated!

That night, I get up at like 4am in order to get the car out to LMS.

Once again, knowing I'm still on a temporary tune, I dare not push it. Arrive at LMS shortly after opening, and tell Vince how happy I was with the temporary tune. How well it ran, and even that I achieved my best MPG ever since owning this car new, gaining a stellar 27.1 MPG.

Vince tells me that it shouldn't take any longer than 1 week to get it re-dyno'd, as I had asked so that I could arrange to pick a rental, and when to expect retrieving my car, etc.

Well 1 week goes by. No updates. At the end of the 2nd week, I inquire of the status (now this is important because remember I am being blamed for any delays that occurred)

April 23rd......

I get picture text from Vince, showing car on dyno. That's it. I decide to call Vince (knowing you know, that Dan's a busy man and not desiring to inundate him) to ask about #'s, power levels etc. to which I am told no info available on that yet. I remind him of the impending National's, and the deadline looming. We disconnect with Vince advising he'd remind Dan.

April  24th.......

Dan texts, complaining about the injectors again. Mind you, 1 week, has now extended into 2 weeks, and we are now starting week 3. Dan hands it off to Andy (Ricketts) who sends multiple emails throughout remainder of that day.

1st email about necessity of changing plugs (mine were new, gapped at their recommendations, and have now been reinstalled in a Ford Flex since being returned to me, and have been running flawlessly since).

2nd email advising of necessity of changing injectors.

I question need for plugs, and cave on the DW Injectors, not happy ofcourse knowing I spent a lot of money on them and am now being told they're allegedly garbage. Dan asks about OE Injectors, and whether I can send mine in lieu of new. I opt to overnight ship my OE's out to a company in Ohio that reworked them over the weekend, and the overnighted them to LMS.

Andy quotes brand new OE Injectors, then I ask for a revised quote, as Dan inquired about me sending in my originals.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/8fc7b8cdb8a77970fd147ec5b404bcfc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/f80dd9df928f69a26076d27e583b6330.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/950c8b1af46e9273b1aece62153b3294.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/068ac682984ea1227d40e9a7e75a4bb1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/c470240fc39d621bc3be150a732d2ac7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/18b2e7628a86285e25c1dba5fe4d08fa.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/246d66686786f5a294413ddd29222d3f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/671e7d218ffd299ea5e458bb1602fdc8.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 05:33:45 PM
April 24th (cont'd)......

During the aforementioned emails, Andy  questions the ability of the company in Ohio truly being able to re-work my original injectors. I replied in email, but then also called him, as it seemed easier than the back and forth.

During the call, Andy pressed me about purchasing their newest direct port injection meth setup. I ask why? He expounds about about proper delivery of meth to each cylinder, etc. etc. To entertain the discussion, I ask how much? He says he wasn't sure, but he believed "around $6,000". I balked and said well I'm not investing any further until we find out the issue with the injectors first. We disconnect.

I text Dan a screenshot sent to me of new speed record by Ryan Spencer (Unleashed Tuning), and that LMS (& me) no longer apparently holds that title. No replies are provided.

April 26th.......

I get a completely unsolicited communication from Matt Robinson over at Gearhead Tuning. Matt offers to help and interact directly with Dan. So now we have DW and GH assisting LMS on this.

Dan acknowledges having spoken with DW representatives, and also acknowledges that Matt Robinson from Gearhead may have a solution, but then later backpedals and says he learned that Matt at GH pirated a tune or software that LMS developed.

This despite Dan assuring me he'll "get it figured out".(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/6cf3b656ed1f0bdc5774aa4afca709de.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/fafe75a0eb7a3ada7f2d4dc9a26a97b6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/5b2631299e3619819925e6eee4e40003.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/a899f1f91dc44bfa912cf3d16f5743dd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/282e46806726ffcd2290ff8d05ca2794.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/542dfa8e617cdf6a1f470f456be83d07.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 05:12:48 PM
April 8th......

Vince in sales was very helpful in working between me, and the person who I was told developed their new touch screen device, in order to get it updated. Once revised tune is sent by Dan, it's uploaded, car is started. Again idled fine. No stumbles. No misfires. Most importantly.... no CEL's! Elated!

That night, I get up at like 4am in order to get the car out to LMS.

Once again, knowing I'm still on a temporary tune, I dare not push it. Arrive at LMS shortly after opening, and tell Vince how happy I was with the temporary tune. How well it ran, and even that I achieved my best MPG ever since owning this car new, gaining a stellar 27.1 MPG.

Vince tells me that it shouldn't take any longer than 1 week to get it re-dyno'd, as I had asked so that I could arrange to pick a rental, and when to expect retrieving my car, etc.

Well 1 week goes by. No updates. At the end of the 2nd week, I inquire of the status (now this is important because remember I am being blamed for any delays that occurred)

April 23rd......

I get picture text from Vince, showing car on dyno. That's it. I decide to call Vince (knowing you know, that Dan's a busy man and not desiring to inundate him) to ask about #'s, power levels etc. to which I am told no info available on that yet. I remind him of the impending National's, and the deadline looming. We disconnect with Vince advising he'd remind Dan.

April  24th.......

Dan texts, complaining about the injectors again. Mind you, 1 week, has now extended into 2 weeks, and we are now starting week 3. Dan hands it off to Andy (Ricketts) who sends multiple emails throughout remainder of that day.

1st email about necessity of changing plugs (mine were new, gapped at their recommendations, and have now been reinstalled in a Ford Flex since being returned to me, and have been running flawlessly since).

2nd email advising of necessity of changing injectors.

I question need for plugs, and cave on the DW Injectors, not happy ofcourse knowing I spent a lot of money on them and am now being told they're allegedly garbage. Dan asks about OE Injectors, and whether I can send mine in lieu of new. I opt to overnight ship my OE's out to a company in Ohio that reworked them over the weekend, and the overnighted them to LMS.

Andy quotes brand new OE Injectors, then I ask for a revised quote, as Dan inquired about me sending in my originals.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/8fc7b8cdb8a77970fd147ec5b404bcfc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/f80dd9df928f69a26076d27e583b6330.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/950c8b1af46e9273b1aece62153b3294.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/068ac682984ea1227d40e9a7e75a4bb1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/c470240fc39d621bc3be150a732d2ac7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/18b2e7628a86285e25c1dba5fe4d08fa.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/246d66686786f5a294413ddd29222d3f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/671e7d218ffd299ea5e458bb1602fdc8.jpg)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Mike your engine is broken

What can we help with?

What is the purpose I ask again?

You created the problem I offered to fix it now you want to bash us?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 05:49:14 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on July 15, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
Can we see the build sheet? I think those type of things are interesting.

Why do you need to see the build sheet?

What qualificat
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
I don't care if you are building a lawn mower engine or a top fuel dragster engine. A build sheet should be provided without the customer asking. Any and I mean any shop I've ever dealt with. Whether it was John Kaase race engines or archie's Go kart engines I received a build sheet. It's just proper engine building practices.

I 100% agree with statement.  I have always received build sheets for engines, and I still have quite a few even though I don't own the cars anymore. I always asked for two copies.  One that went with all of the other built motors in a file, and one that went with a file I made with everything that I had done to that particular car both in my safe. I had my piece of mind, and a way to protect myself from he said, she said. 

We don't give build sheets for crate engines nor do many shops. If you do a custom build

We don't give our clearances to customers openly.


Also stop with top fuel I ran a promod car (same engine) and know several of the top fuel guys. Quit talking about stuff you don't know. We put pistons in between rounds. Not one time did we stop and get the tools out to measure the s*** we put back in. Please ok. Your trying to find something here to bash Livernois and its simply not fair. If Mike was concerned with the build sheet he could of asked. Hes got my cell. Not once did he ask. If he did based on the text you seen its pretty apparent I bent over backwards for the guy. I am questioning why I did at this point.

Dan

I have some to say I'll be a bigger man and walk away. It's between you guys.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 05:54:12 PM
April 29th......

I ask for updates. Dan replies he's gonna work on it tomorrow.

Two days go by, I hear nothing. I ask for another update. This time Dan says he's "in training all week".

Well which one is it? You're working on it, or you're busy in training? (Remember, I was the one being blamed for the delays).

More time passes, and I hear nothing.

Suspecting Dan is too busy for me, I reach back out to Vince in sales by telephone multiple times between Monday May 6th and Wednesday May 8th.

I press Vince about the fact my back is against the wall, and I am out of time. I originally had asked about picking car up on Friday, May 10th. But my wife reminds me of the pending college graduation that same day, for our oldest daughter. Crap. Well I ask if I can pick up on Saturday the 11th. I know that LMS hosted their 1st 2019 CAD on Saturday the 11th, so I tell Vince I'll do whatever it takes to pick up my car on Saturday. Whether 1st thing in the morning, or in the afternoon, whenever. Vince tells me to aim for business opening and he'll coordinate with Dan.

Friday, May 10th (morning of)......

I recieve the following text from Vince (see below).

So as of that morning, I am being led to believe that all is well and that any previous tuning issues have been resolved in their entirety, and that the car will for sure be ready for pickup. Great I'm thinking to myself, but I was also very busy that same morning getting ready for daughter's graduation, the drive downtown (horrible on a Friday morning).

Now this is important because LMS has claimed that the engine was damaged by me from the onset. They claimed they didn't know about injectors. But yet they wrote me a temporary tune which for all inclusive purposes seemed fantastic! But then they're also claiming that they "knew right away" that something was awry, and that they "caught it in time" (on the dyno). So if all of that was true, and it was known from early on (perhaps on April 23rd's dyno session??) Then why only hours later after receiving the below text from Vince, implying it would be ready for pickup, did Dan call me at 2:30pm CDT (3:30pm EDT) to drop the bombshell news into my lap???(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/fd7bfd15a0cdd9efd40b224cc0bdb0aa.jpg)

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
April 10th (cont'd.).......

During that phone conversation, Dan tells me that the car won't be ready. Startled knowing the earlier text from Vince, I quip "What? Whaddya mean it won't be happy?"

Dan replies "The motor is not happy". I ask "What does that mean exactly? Like don't take it to the track? Ok, that's fine, I'll see you tomorrow, as I MUST PICK IT UP. I'll drive it gingerly to the National's and after that events over, I'll drop it back off".

Dan replies "Oh no, like it's not driveable. At all. The motor has to come out".

I nearly $h!t myself. I thought I was in the twilight zone, or getting pranked and began looking around for Ashton Kutcher.

Nope. This was real.

I ask Dan what went wrong, what happened? Dan replies "Well we don't know for sure. That's why the motor has to come out".

Now nearly ready to faint, I start fast forwarding in my head thinking about the National's. I begin frantically asking Dan repeatedly about getting this corrected in time for the Nat's, and I remind how important, and what a HUGE honor it was/is to gave been graciously chosen as "Featured Vehicle" and the notoriety that would come with that, both for him, his company, as well as me individually.

Dan expounds informing me that he would have to pull at least 2 of his mechanics off of/away from other customer's jobs in order to even try and make the National's, even then it was not likely. I press further, and Dan said the only way he might (and he stressed might) be able to get it done on Friday, May 31st) but even then, that would entail me picking it up from their facility that morning, and driving it directly from LMS, to the Nat's.

I replied desperately that that was unacceptable as the show began that morning, and once spectators are allowed entry, no cars are allowed to be driven around etc. I said besides, if I left your place at 9am, it'd still be a 7hr-ish drive, placing me at the venue by mid, to late afternoon. I'd have no time to detail it, etc. and I reminded him that I had other things left to complete.

Dan then had the nerve to tell me the following after having heard me beg, plead, etc. to get this done in time for the Nat's....

"You know Mike, that event, that's a personal thing, something strictly just for you, it does absolutely nothing for me, so like I don't care if you don't make it".

Holy hell wait what? What did I just hear? I didn't just hear him say that to me. His biggest and best customer of several years and wow, really?

I was so mad, it was at this point I realized that my family, who was still seated inside the restaurant downtown, post graduation, that they were all staring at me, and knowing my food was getting cold, I changed gears and told Dan that I can't talk right now. His timing was incredibly poor. I knew he would be busy tomorrow (Saturday the 11th) hosting the CAD event, and that Sunday was Mother's day.

We both agreed to simply let this digest and sink in, and that we would recall each other the following Monday and discuss further.

NO PLANS OF ANY KIND WERE DISCUSSED OR AGREED UPON.

(it should be noted that Dan previously stated he was working through a backlog at the shop, and in our phone convo he reiterated how busy they were, and not even pulling 2 mechanics off would assure completion in time by the Nat's.

We disconnected and I went back inside and did my best to hide my disgust and disappointment from my daughter and family, as remember this was her day after all.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/29980dc4d739e253019fcd659993392b.jpg)

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 07:21:12 PM
May 10th (cont'd.)......

After returning home later in the evening, and all family having departed, I still had this sick feeling in my stomach that I was not being told everything that happened.

I felt I had lost control. My car was 4.5hrs away, to which I drove it there running perfectly (and under load mind you, as it was the expressway after all) and now I'm being told a motor drop. Crazy.

I made the executive decision to have a tow company proceed to LMS to retrieve my car. I was in no financial standing to address this issue at the moment, so getting it back in my hands was VERY IMPROTANT to me. Even if it just sat in my garage collecting dust.

I contracted with Grand Beach Towing that evening and then immediately recalled Dan. He did not answer. I left him a Voice Mail. In that Voice Mail I told him that I knew we agreed to talk on Monday, but I had to speak with him, that it was important, and that I had put "some things in motion" that needed to be discussed.

Silence. Crickets. All weekend long. This was the 1st time ever that Dan has failed to return  my call.

Ok. No worries. Monday morning May 13th comes and approximately 10min. prior to LMS opening for the day, I send a (group) text to BOTH Dan AND Vince, advising to stop any work on my car and that a tow truck will be arriving to retrieve my car.

See below.

I recieve no reply. Odd. I communicate with my tow driver who tells me that he had arrived at LMS around 11am (EDT) and that upon entry into the front sales area, Vince greets him and shows him my text and says to the driver something along the lines of "Oh yea, this must be you here, Mike texted and we knee you were coming. Let me go get the owner for you".

Ring ring ring goes my phone. Dan calls and sounds startled/surprised. Asks me what's going on and why is there a tow truck at his business wanting to retrieve my car? Dan continues without allowing me to answer saying that he really wished I would've given him a heads up, or told him ahead of time.

I replied to Dan that I tried to tell him. I called on Friday evening and left you a Voice Mail.

Dan says poignantly "Well I'm very busy, I don't really listen to my voice mails, you know, I have like a lot of spammers calling me and what not".

I then inform him that I texted BOTH him AND Vince prior to business opening (look at time stamp below) to inform them of the impending tow.

Dan says that he was busy and "just read (my text) now". Well that's odd, cuz Vince acknowledged reading it and greeted the tow driver as such.

Dan asks again why is a tow truck there? I tell him that it was a very long weekend, my wife was super pissed about this whole situation, and that I can't afford to do this right now, so that's why the tow truck is there. I continue, besides you told me Friday you were too busy to work on my car, and knowing it wasn't going to be able to make the Nat's, I saw no point in my car remaining there.

Dan offers to "eat the labor" on engine removal and the tear down, but proceeds to tell me that I would have to pay for any parts accordingly.

I thanked him, told him that was a very gracious offer, but why would I agree to paying for any/all parts, as he told me previously that he did not know what was wrong with the motor to begin with, and as far as I was concerned, that was essentially an "open ended ticket" (for parts) which could cost me untold thousands. Thank you but no thank you.

Release my car please.

Dan sounds concerned now. He's pleading with me to leave the car there. I decline.

He tells me how he doesn't understand how I could turn down such an offer. I tell him if I were to accept his offer, would he pay for my tow then? He answered with a laugh, NO. Well then just release my car.

He then said well it's gonna be a while. I ask why? He says he started work on it already.

Once again, I was like wait, what?

I said what do you mean you began work on it? I never authorized any type of work, do you have any authorization from me saying to remove engine or begin tearing it down? No you do not.

Well I thought we were friends Mike. I had a guy spend 2hrs on it on Friday (May 10th) and another guy spend 2hrs on it this morning.

Shocked, I asked what work was done, and how long exactly is it going to take? Dan says he doesn't know what was done, maybe the CAI was removed, I'm not sure, I'll have to ask the guys in the shop.

Again, what was done Dan? He replies, that he feels like I'm putting him in a real bind, and  he goes back to stating he doesn't understand how I can turn down his offer of "free".

Concerned about how long my tow driver would have to wait (& me having to pay more to him for waiting around) I ask how much longer? Dan says maybe about an hour.

We disconnect so Dan can go talk to his "guys in the shop".

I tell my tow driver of the unexpected delays.

Tow driver tells me that Vince returned to the sales area and informed him the subframe was down, and some other parts removed, and that it was going to be a while.

Dan texts me back, asks if I want the car reassembled.  I ask again what was taken apart. He doesn't answer.

I expound that I don't understand what was taken apart, and how the motor broke, especially when I drove it there and it was fine.

Dan then proceeds to clarify his offer of "free" and continues stating that they will fix my car on THEIR TIMEFRAME, and that as long as it's not completely unusable, this "should" not cost me anything. Notice the "should". His escape route to charge me...... ??

Dan continues advising that he would allow me to reinstall it (the motor).

Wait what? Soooooooo you're gonna remove the motor, tear it down, make me pay for an unknown quantity of parts, then allow me to install it myself afterwards?

Ummmm...... doesn't sound free to me.

I tell Dan that I realize I there may be a pending bill and that he probably wants me to pay that to release my car.

Dan says "I don't do billing". Well that's ok Dan, I have the emails from Andy, let me add it up for you. Dan replies again that he doesn't do billing. Ok then Dan, then transfer me to someone who will take my money.

Dan replies "No that's ok, I'll just go ahead and release your car."

I recall tow driver, tell him what's going on. He asked what my car looked like and I sent him pics. He replies to me that him and I needed to talk after he clears LMS.

Tow driver tells me that employees drove my car out to his truck. I was puzzled. Huh, I was told it was "not driveable" but yet they drove it out to you? He then says he proceeds to load up the car while it's running. Gets it on the bed. Goes to shut car off and secure, but has no key. He goes back and asks for the key. Employees tell him they don't know where the key is at. Now he was like you guys just drove the car out to me. They made him wait even longer. Dan offered the driver directly to pay ONLY FOR his additional waiting time. Tow driver declines, just asks for the key again.

So he waits. As do I.

Some time later Vince pops back into the equation, calls me and apologies saying he was removed from the picture and he only heard something went wrong and he seemed genuinely concerned that things didn't go as planned.

Vince tells me I then need to sign a form. I say ok, send it on over. He sends me the same form I signed when I dropped the car off 4 weeks earlier. Puzzled I ask where he needs me to sign? He tells me. Then I read the mumbo jumbo and laugh and tell him I'm not signing that. He asks if he should go get Dan. I tell him politely NO, that if Dan reintroduced him into the equation, then that pretty much tells me Dan's done with me. I proceed to tell Vince what I WILL WRITE (on this form) and nothing further.

15min later (at approximately 1:45pm EDT) my tow driver tells me the vehicle was released and he was on his way. Mind you he arrived at their facility at approximately 10:30am EDT. So that's just over 3hrs of him waiting around.

I ask him what he needs to talk to me about? He tells me that he saw my car parked OUTSIDE the entire time, and that it appeared no work was being done on it. He saw it surrounded by a bunch of other cars, that he watched them moving around to get mine clear.


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/99b25ff70bf7aa451e542effdb8eb178.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/1697bd4fa9b9ed00b9aac3f35b8049fb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/a1d1eb4d9f395416d9bfe63ca0f0fb95.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/0ed3b1c371ee84a270aa025a7b2f9568.jpg)

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 07:29:48 PM
What else? I'm trying my best to keep everything in order and sequence (relevant) texts and other supporting info coordinated.

Oh yes, almost forgot.

Despite Dan having poo poo'd the DW Injectors, saying outright that they're trash, Dan had the gumption to ask me if he could keep them for his own purposes. I kind of laughed at this, but entertained his request, and asked if he would discount labor in exchange and below texts were his replies....

Ironic that they're so bad, that they supposedly ruined my motor, that other customers cars they used them in that they ripped 'em out and threw them in the trash. But now he wants them?

Even going so far as to say he's purchased several sets over the years and now wants mine for free?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/ee802ac08a6f862d2682719d944522c4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/730a14c2088b4aba4210fb5c4a5eb6a2.jpg)

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 07:38:09 PM
What else?

I was personally told that it was a closed deck and I was also personally told that the oil passages were modified for better flow and lubrication. Neither of which was the case.


I was also told at the time this LONG BLOCK motor was built for me, that mine WAS NOT Livernois's 1st EcoBoost build and that (if memory serves me correctly) that 3 or 4 others existed at that time.

How would I ever know, right? Not like I ever planned on re-opening the engine after all.

Funny to see the proverbial hat being rung around the Youtube video, and confirming that that's supposedly my engine displayed.

If one looks closely at I think the 41 second mark, one can see the deck surface exposed and that the deck in that video is smooth and presents no indication of gouges all across the deck surface, as was found in my actual block when torn down by a 3rd, neutral, non-biased vendor.

Things that make you go hmmmm.....

What else?

Oh yea, the oil report. Funny how it's being reported publicly that the oil was allegedly new/fresh. Well I can tell you all yet again, from a 3rd party, neutral vendor (Blackstone) they estimated in their report the oil to NOT BE NEW, and that their chemical analysis indicated it has approximately 6,000 miles on it. Oh wait? That must've been overlooked. Again, conveniently.

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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 07:53:29 PM
And finally, despite Dan having declined taking my money on three separate occasions when I asked him to do so, and then he goes on the boards here couple of weeks back (beginning of June) claiming "free free free" everything's free, as if there was some sort of firestorm sale going on at LMS......

Privately Dan has the gall to ask me to settle any outstanding bill. See text below.

Claiming free engine removal and tear down, which I know what is costing me currently, but then he wants to clamor about settling after he declined me 3x.

Unreal. Made only worse when Dan goes onto to tell the community to stand by and just wait, that they have the latest and greatest in tuning getting ready to be released soon.

I mean really? Geezuz. Ever the proverbial salesman. Display some couth. Which apparently can't be done even here, today, when I asked politely to allow me to post, uninterrupted.

Nope. Just couldn't hold it. Posting of text's that one party believes are relevant, while entirely dismissing what the other party believes are relevant (as will the community as a whole will likely agree are relevant as well) is just plain arrogant.

At this point, I am done.

My point in posting this, was simply for the community to know what took place. Nothing more, nothing less. My motivations do not involve you or your company anymore.

Time for me to sip someone else's Koolaid.

Finally, the subframe was never dropped in my car, as none of the LED lighting was cut to the LCA's and other areas necessary to do so, in order to just drop the subframe to begin with.

Whoever previously pointed out about the banner change on my windshield....  y'all are like prophetic! Scary!

I'm done. Good luck to LMS.

Thanks everyone for trudging through the long posts.

Carry on and good luck to each and all of you with your Ecoboosts!

Signing off. Going to bed. I worked an 18hr shift and have been up for 26hrs straight at this point.

Good night.


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
April 10th (cont'd.).......

During that phone conversation, Dan tells me that the car won't be ready. Startled knowing the earlier text from Vince, I quip "What? Whaddya mean it won't be happy?"

So, just to clarify we took the time to let you know immediately about the situation (or immediately after we had something to relay), this is not a negative, this is how quickly things can change.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
Dan replies "The motor is not happy". I ask "What does that mean exactly? Like don't take it to the track? Ok, that's fine, I'll see you tomorrow, as I MUST PICK IT UP. I'll drive it gingerly to the National's and after that events over, I'll drop it back off".

Dan replies "Oh no, like it's not driveable. At all. The motor has to come out".

I nearly $h!t myself. I thought I was in the twilight zone, or getting pranked and began looking around for Ashton Kutcher.

Nope. This was real.

I ask Dan what went wrong, what happened? Dan replies "Well we don't know for sure. That's why the motor has to come out".

And the statement was correct, but in a different light than what you are relaying. We were sure of what failed, we were not sure what all it entailed and what else could need to be addressed.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
Now nearly ready to faint, I start fast forwarding in my head thinking about the National's. I begin frantically asking Dan repeatedly about getting this corrected in time for the Nat's, and I remind how important, and what a HUGE honor it was/is to gave been graciously chosen as "Featured Vehicle" and the notoriety that would come with that, both for him, his company, as well as me individually.

Dan expounds informing me that he would have to pull at least 2 of his mechanics off of/away from other customer's jobs in order to even try and make the National's, even then it was not likely. I press further, and Dan said the only way he might (and he stressed might) be able to get it done on Friday, May 31st) but even then, that would entail me picking it up from their facility that morning, and driving it directly from LMS, to the Nat's.

I replied desperately that that was unacceptable as the show began that morning, and once spectators are allowed entry, no cars are allowed to be driven around etc. I said besides, if I left your place at 9am, it'd still be a 7hr-ish drive, placing me at the venue by mid, to late afternoon. I'd have no time to detail it, etc. and I reminded him that I had other things left to complete.

We understood, and were giving you the facts about what we had to do to even have a shot of getting it done, and based on our experience with having a featured car, we were conveying it's not as imperative as you think to get there by a certain deadline. our ZL1 was chosen in the past, and you just have a barn that you go into for the featured vehicles with direct access to load/unload. there were several featured cars with us that got there hours after the show started.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
Dan then had the nerve to tell me the following after having heard me beg, plead, etc. to get this done in time for the Nat's....

"You know Mike, that event, that's a personal thing, something strictly just for you, it does absolutely nothing for me, so like I don't care if you don't make it".

Remember the context to this, and the message that came with it. First was the context of reminding you that you chose to do these modifications before taking the car to the event. No one here told you to mess with this. Had we been consulted about it, we would always advise to take the time to do it without a deadline, and all kinds of time, energy, and money would have been saved. But getting back to what was said, no one ever said we didn't care. What WAS said is that this event and featured car, along with what you were trying to do was for you primarily, because you were trying to convince us that you were doing it all for us. All we did was remind you that it wasn't our choice to do these changes to the car, and it definitely wasn't for us since they weren't parts we recommend. So painting it like it was simply got a response reminding you that none of what you were trying to accomplish was actually for us. Your car being there with, or without these changes would have the same result for us as a company. But to say we didn't care if you made it or not is not correct. we said you making it to the show was not our primary concern, fixing your car was.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
Holy hell wait what? What did I just hear? I didn't just hear him say that to me. His biggest and best customer of several years and wow, really?

I was so mad, it was at this point I realized that my family, who was still seated inside the restaurant downtown, post graduation, that they were all staring at me, and knowing my food was getting cold, I changed gears and told Dan that I can't talk right now. His timing was incredibly poor. I knew he would be busy tomorrow (Saturday the 11th) hosting the CAD event, and that Sunday was Mother's day.

We both agreed to simply let this digest and sink in, and that we would recall each other the following Monday and discuss further.

NO PLANS OF ANY KIND WERE DISCUSSED OR AGREED UPON.

So, you're saying we came to an agreement that we would all talk on Monday before doing anything. But a tow truck shows up with zero conversation about it, and you demanded your car. Does that sound like what was discussed?

We did say we would do our best to get the engine done by then, laid out the reality of what it would take to make that even have a chance to happen, confirmed we would push other customers off to get stuff done for you, offered for it to be zero cost (hence doing work that wasn't approved, can't really get paid for that, right?) and were minutes away from having the engine out when the driver showed up. NONE of that deserves any negativity because while we were finding ways to give you everything you wanted, all you cared about was getting it out of here.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
(it should be noted that Dan previously stated he was working through a backlog at the shop, and in our phone convo he reiterated how busy they were, and not even pulling 2 mechanics off would assure completion in time by the Nat's.

We disconnected and I went back inside and did my best to hide my disgust and disappointment from my daughter and family, as remember this was her day after all.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190715/29980dc4d739e253019fcd659993392b.jpg)

we didn't say it wouldn't be done, we said we weren't sure it would be done.  Kind of irrelevant to bring that up since your path you chose for sure didn't get it done. But again, we're horrible because we didn't just tell you what you wanted to hear. We told you the truth and immediately started working towards the path you wanted us to do for you, get it done by the show.

Honestly this is just like when your stock engine popped. We got blamed over and over again for it, when it was the way the methanol system was installed (not by us) that caused it to spray methanol for 10 seconds after shutting the engine off, which caused it to accumulated in the intercooler, and then hydrolock once it all got pushed into the engine. We gave you thousands of dollars of discounts on it because you thought it was broken from our tuning. So we stepped up to help. Now here we are 5+ years later dealing with more self inflicted failures and having the finger pointed at us, except you wouldn't even let us help, and then didn't even pay us for anything we did do.

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 08:11:09 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 07:38:09 PM

Oh yea, the oil report. Funny how it's being reported publicly that the oil was allegedly new/fresh. Well I can tell you all yet again, from a 3rd party, neutral vendor (Blackstone) they estimated in their report the oil to NOT BE NEW, and that their chemical analysis indicated it has approximately 6,000 miles on it. Oh wait? That must've been overlooked. Again, conveniently.

You are so hell bent on believing we are lying you won't even take 2 seconds to comprehend what the oil analysis even says.

To help show you that you couldn't be more wrong, we will highlight the pertinent items:

"We're surprised to hear this engine failed. Wear metals are largely below the norm for a 3.5L
EB engine. You mentioned this should be new oil, though, so the sample may just not have been run long
enough to accumulate much metal
. Averages on the right are based on oil run about 6,000 miles. The
viscosity is thin for 5W/30, reading more like a 5W/20. That shouldn't cause engine failure, though, and
neither will a harmless trace of fuel dilution. No coolant or dirt was found. Molybdenum is just an oil additive,
not poor wear or contamination."

he is telling you there is no metal/debris in the oil. look at that engine you have pictures of. how is this possible? CAUSE THE OIL IS NEW

He doesn't say your oil appears to have 6,000 miles, he is REFERENCING an average oil sample from a 3.5EB that DID have 6,000 miles on the oil. CAUSE THE OIL IS NEW

Why is the viscosity thinner than the 5w30 you said? cause we only put oil in it for it to be able to run, which was, you guessed it, 5w20 because the damage was done, and we just needed to get oil in it so it could start again.

You want to drink someone else's kool aid, that's your choice. It's anyone choice. but completely ignoring facts, and literally lying about what your own posted report states just shows that you don't care about facts at all. I mean you are flat out contradicting your own evidence. why? cause your evidence corroborates what we said. facts be damned...

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on July 15, 2019, 08:42:38 PM
So the machine work is acceptable? You can't possibly tell me that fuel dilution caused the score marks on top of the cylinders? If the machining was that poorly done, who honestly knows how the rest of the work was done...

Also, if there was concern from the start about fuel dilution from the injectors, why wasn't it recommended to flush the oil? Let alone put it on a dyno? Clearly LMS was concerned about this from the start, I'm surprised something as simple as an oil changed wasn't only mentioned, but done.

There is no clear resolution here.




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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on July 15, 2019, 08:46:10 PM
I think we all should take a break to digest all the INFO and especially all the quote on quotes in order to keep this thread going!
In the meantime let's take a deep breath and inhale and exhale which does wonders for stress! TIA. Z 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: griggs95 on July 15, 2019, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on July 15, 2019, 08:46:10 PM
I think we all should take a break to digest all the INFO and especially all the quote on quotes in order to keep this thread going!
In the meantime let's take a deep breath and inhale and exhale which does wonders for stress! TIA. Z

Deep breaths always help, excellent advice!

I definitely think there was some miscommunication involved even as there was over communication (if that makes sense). I find this a lot in today's world with texting and emails. I find texting one the lowest forms of communication actually. Face to face or over the phone is the only true communication there is.

I'm hoping to share what little knowledge I have to help resolve this between two ecoboost pioneers.

One question I didn't see answered about is the mileage of the 5 year old motor that was destroyed?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 6500rpm on July 15, 2019, 10:31:57 PM
About fuel dilution-there's damage all over that engine. Bearings, cam lobes, piston skirts *and none of it has blued from heat*, meaning it may very well have lost it's lubrication property. I didn't notice it at first, but even the rods and caps show no sign of excess heat from what I can see in the pics. The piston skirts show scaring. If the rings were washed out I can see that causing similar damage. They stated it wouldn't run over 3k rpm-if the rings were washed out they won't seal properly, you get a lot of compression loss on top of the over fueling. If it is fuel related, I don't have a clue that it's a sole fault of the injectors, the tune, or a bit of both. Once again, the log files from the pulls might show some things of value, especially fuel trim, O2, misfire values. There seems to be two trains of thought going on, I look at things from a Tech perspective wanting to know what happened to the engine,and for better or worse, many of the posts seem to revolve around integrity issues of the two men. Shame things turned out like this.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ryanp49 on July 16, 2019, 02:01:36 AM
I don't have a dog in this fight but... One thing that's not being discussed is the piston to wall clearance...either those were set too loose from the get go or those piston skirts were collapsing. Fuel dilution is not going to make your pistons shrink...also that highly polished area on the skirts towards the bottom matches with damage you'd see from the piston rocking at the bottom of the cylinder wall causing the skirt of the piston to slap the cylinder wall. I bet if you look down in the cylinder bores you'll see the same polished area at the bottom of the bores.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 6500rpm on July 16, 2019, 05:45:42 AM
^^^Agreed

Quote from: 6500rpm on July 13, 2019, 01:02:40 PM
The damage to the piston skirts is also troubling and typical of what GM had going on their 3.1L engines around 2000/2001 where there was too much clearance and short skirts.

In the case of the GM engines, we replaced hundred's of engines due to this (I did about 60 over a 3 month period). Damaged load side of the piston which wore off a teflon patch they had on them and associated piston wall "finger nail scratches" that couldn't be machined out per GM. Typically they came in with a cold engine knock that went away or was reduced as the engine warmed up and the piston expanded, but the damage was done.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on July 16, 2019, 05:48:25 AM
What facts I pick up on is the fact that Mike drove his car 15 miles from the shop that performed the installation of his new mods including the injectors to his home.  Saying it was running 🐖 rich was more than likely an exaggeration tainted with excitement.  Getting all these new mods done is exciting.  I'm not sure why Dan for legal purposes would hold onto that statement.  Is it pure fact that even 2 miles can cause excessive fuel dilution with larger injectors?  How can that statement be proved?  If the engine was shut off and diagnosed perhaps?  Based on Dan's response Mike asked if he should trailer it.  At that point (sounding as concerned as he was) he dropped the ball in my opinion.  Why not say yes?  I find it negligible on Dan's part to dismiss getting it towed and writing him a tune to drive it further......to me that was a red flag as Dan 100% contradicted his own judgement.  Perhaps at that point Mike still trusted him.  I think not knowing Dan, Mike would have said...wait...what?  Drive it there?  I thought 2 miles was bad enough? 

But to get the car there, wait a few weeks and get charged the outrageous prices...250 for new plugs installed?  1300 for new injectors installed?  750 just to swap?  Oh hey why don't you buy our direct port meth system...for 1,000 a cylinder?  You guys are lucky to have 1 customer with those prices that aren't even remotely justified if broken down or even with an hourly rate applied.  Unless your Lawyer mechanics as in...i thought I took my car to a shop not a lawyers office.....

You tell him it will be ready and such...to the point...we might have to have someone let you in...to sorry bud it's not happy....to claim to have the engine subframe dropped to hold the car, to get Mike to allow it to stay.  What an absolute horrible customer experience and on this side of tjr tracks....for this platform...Mike was your biggest supporter and strongest customer.  That experience could have been me or anyone else.  He had to try and navigate a sea of misleading and downright untrue statements from multiple members of your staff in regards to the status of his car.  Its an unforgivable customer experience period. 

We better not see LMS supports DW Injectors....ever.  Unbelievable.  Can I have these?  What? 

I'm glad Mike isn't swinging from Dan's n**ts anymore while Dan has both hands in his wallet....or whoever does billing!!!
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: FearlessAZ on July 16, 2019, 07:34:15 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.


I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on July 16, 2019, 07:53:45 AM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 16, 2019, 07:34:15 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.


I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.
@ SMK- Need to stay cool Brother! No worries we will let it "run its course" or until deemed otherwise! Z

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 07:57:12 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on July 15, 2019, 08:42:38 PM
So the machine work is acceptable? You can't possibly tell me that fuel dilution caused the score marks on top of the cylinders? If the machining was that poorly done, who honestly knows how the rest of the work was done...

Also, if there was concern from the start about fuel dilution from the injectors, why wasn't it recommended to flush the oil? Let alone put it on a dyno? Clearly LMS was concerned about this from the start, I'm surprised something as simple as an oil changed wasn't only mentioned, but done.

There is no clear resolution here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously the machine work was acceptable. It ran 11s and then ran for the next 5 years.

The community just wants the company to be liable. Sorry we're not.

https://dannysengineportal.com/fuel-wash/

Maybe this can help you

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:06:46 AM
Quote from: 6500rpm on July 15, 2019, 10:31:57 PM
About fuel dilution-there's damage all over that engine. Bearings, cam lobes, piston skirts *and none of it has blued from heat*, meaning it may very well have lost it's lubrication property. I didn't notice it at first, but even the rods and caps show no sign of excess heat from what I can see in the pics. The piston skirts show scaring. If the rings were washed out I can see that causing similar damage. They stated it wouldn't run over 3k rpm-if the rings were washed out they won't seal properly, you get a lot of compression loss on top of the over fueling. If it is fuel related, I don't have a clue that it's a sole fault of the injectors, the tune, or a bit of both. Once again, the log files from the pulls might show some things of value, especially fuel trim, O2, misfire values. There seems to be two trains of thought going on, I look at things from a Tech perspective wanting to know what happened to the engine,and for better or worse, many of the posts seem to revolve around integrity issues of the two men. Shame things turned out like this.

Good observation. But it's so easy to come here after the fact and say what should of been done. What I took was what Mike said. Over the phone he said he started it and that it wasn't long. He said 15 minutes but over the phone it wasn't close to that....now I'm not sure what to believe

Look I can critique any sports play after it happens. Please  let's be honest with ourselves. Mike has some blame here.

What you are failing to realize is the damage from the fuel wash was done in the time Mike had decided to change parts without involving the tuner. Once I corrected the tune the damages were done. So trailer or not he already caused the damage

Yes those are facts.

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:10:47 AM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 16, 2019, 07:34:15 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.


I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.

I don't know what facts you like to see other than Mike put in injectors that caused fuel wash and the engine broke. Could some things have been done differently absolutely. But we're living in the real world in the real world not everything is perfect.

This kind of reminds me how Donald Trump is treated in the media. It does seem no matter what we say here it's going to be our fault.

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on July 16, 2019, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 07:57:12 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on July 15, 2019, 08:42:38 PM
So the machine work is acceptable? You can't possibly tell me that fuel dilution caused the score marks on top of the cylinders? If the machining was that poorly done, who honestly knows how the rest of the work was done...

Also, if there was concern from the start about fuel dilution from the injectors, why wasn't it recommended to flush the oil? Let alone put it on a dyno? Clearly LMS was concerned about this from the start, I'm surprised something as simple as an oil changed wasn't only mentioned, but done.

There is no clear resolution here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously the machine work was acceptable. It ran 11s and then ran for the next 5 years.

The community just wants the company to be liable. Sorry we're not.

https://dannysengineportal.com/fuel-wash/

Maybe this can help you

Obviously

No, I think the community is in shock at the quality of the most expensive engine build out there...  s*** happens... we all know that... but to see this quality from a company that touts itself has the leader in ecoboost builds and charges accordingly is disappointing and quit frankly appalling.

I don't know anyone who at this point who sees this information would willing pay for that quality of workmanship.

It's just unfortunate to see such a highly regarded company have such poor QA.

But then again you charge $50 for a $10 motorad thermostat... so maybe NOT so surprising.


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Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on July 16, 2019, 08:33:03 AM
Symptoms of a fuel wash most certainly include fouled spark plugs and excessive fuel dilution in the oil.  Mikes spark plugs installed with the new injectors were not fouled and showed no signs of excessive fuel consumption in the cylinder than normal.  Its not like you guys said we had to pull your plugs bc they were fouled....you guys like to pull plugs just bc....so you don't have issues...thats what I was told when I recieved an estimate for meth install and asked why you would charge me for plugs when mine were new.  And you guys changed the oil, yes?  That oil would have excessive fuel in it...did you mention that or save it?  Saving it would certainly be common sennse, no? 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:36:26 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on July 16, 2019, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 07:57:12 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on July 15, 2019, 08:42:38 PM
So the machine work is acceptable? You can't possibly tell me that fuel dilution caused the score marks on top of the cylinders? If the machining was that poorly done, who honestly knows how the rest of the work was done...

Also, if there was concern from the start about fuel dilution from the injectors, why wasn't it recommended to flush the oil? Let alone put it on a dyno? Clearly LMS was concerned about this from the start, I'm surprised something as simple as an oil changed wasn't only mentioned, but done.

There is no clear resolution here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously the machine work was acceptable. It ran 11s and then ran for the next 5 years.

The community just wants the company to be liable. Sorry we're not.

https://dannysengineportal.com/fuel-wash/

Maybe this can help you

Obviously

No, I think the community is in shock at the quality of the most expensive engine build out there...  s*** happens... we all know that... but to see this quality from a company that touts itself has the leader in ecoboost builds and charges accordingly is disappointing and quit frankly appalling.

I don't know anyone who at this point who sees this information would willing pay for that quality of workmanship.

It's just unfortunate to see such a highly regarded company have such poor QA.

But then again you charge $50 for a $10 motorad thermostat... so maybe NOT so surprising.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We are just trying to defend ourselves.

When people post BS and tell half the story its very disappointing.

I ask what would you do if your were in our position? We have offered to fix it for free but I guess thats not good enough. Even though its not our fault.

And surprise your going to bash us on pricing, you obviously have beef.

I know we build good stuff, reliable and just continue to the right thing. That's all I ask for when something happens to me.

Please explain how you would handle this?

Dan
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:41:43 AM
Quote from: 802SHO on July 16, 2019, 08:33:03 AM
Symptoms of a fuel wash most certainly include fouled spark plugs and excessive fuel dilution in the oil.  Mikes spark plugs installed with the new injectors were not fouled and showed no signs of excessive fuel consumption in the cylinder than normal.  Its not like you guys said we had to pull your plugs bc they were fouled....you guys like to pull plugs just bc....so you don't have issues...thats what I was told when I recieved an estimate for meth install and asked why you would charge me for plugs when mine were new.  And you guys changed the oil, yes?  That oil would have excessive fuel in it...did you mention that or save it?  Saving it would certainly be common sennse, no? 

Ok can you explain why Mikes car ran pig rich and wouldn't run properly? Read the link I sent. Its close to what I can explain.

Fuel wash can happen and when the right calibration was put in they can clean up. Mike even says his car ran rough.

You say common sense right no? Would putting in larger injectors and not telling anyone be common sense no?
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 802SHO on July 16, 2019, 08:47:48 AM
So stupid right then what does that make you for saying...here ya go buddy....heres your special "make sure it's broke" tune drive her on down.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Jordan on July 16, 2019, 08:51:24 AM
Am I the only one who just read LMS compare themselves to Trump LOL...

From sitting back at this whole thing here my observation. Owner wants to do something that lms says can't work, lms proceeds anyways. Takes obscene amount of time and in that time also overcharges for minimal work, takes the customer on a ride of " what's being done", which employee can handle this customer today, oh btw we have extra products you can buy that you don't need.

And LMS wants to compare themselves to Trump in the sense that they never do any wrong. Practically comical in my opinion.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: shoNoff on July 16, 2019, 09:14:09 AM
What lms is failing to see here is it's not just the motor broke. It's the attitude towards one of their best Ecoboost customers. And all us potential customers. Any time you say anything to them they attack your intelligence. You claim free free free on here yet we see mikes texts from you that don't claim the same. Did mike do some wrong sure. Did you guys do some wrong absolutely. Then you compare yourself to trump that is friggin laughable. My favorite part of the entire thing was the balls to ask mike for the injectors that are "trash" for free. Hilarious

I will leave with one of my favorite quotes. "When you're good at something you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something they'll tell you" Walter Payton.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on July 16, 2019, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on July 16, 2019, 07:53:45 AM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 16, 2019, 07:34:15 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.


I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.
@ SMK- Need to stay cool Brother! No worries we will let it "run its course" or until deemed otherwise! Z

Z, I get it.  However, I don't believe any thread should be closed (permanently), except if there is a direct physical threat of violence.  I have seen too many times on other boards (LS1Tech) and have seen leaked emails from sponsor companies threatening the operators of the boards that they will to take "their" money elsewhere over a legit customer's concern or wrong doing.  Ultimately the board falls to pressure and the thread is removed.  Further down the road the same company screws another person. It was/is flat out censorship and it should not be tolerated.  I was banned from LS1Tech numerous times because I was fighting numerous companies on behalf of the little guy. One big thread was the Kentucky Turbo screw job.  I think I was banned four times over it.  I just don't like bullies.   

The first time this thread was paused was for a justifiable cause.  Both sides needed to present information.  I thank and applaud the mods of this board for letting the dialogue continue when evidence was presented.  I have seen so many threads disappear or stay closed regardless of outcome in the past.

During this whole conversation and even on the SHOforum, I have asked the questions and called out LMS over numerous things.  It got to the point Dan Millen personally contacted me and we actually had a phone conversation over numerous matters.  I have tried to bring as much info to the surface because it only helps the community.  I have no horse in this race.  I wish no ill will on anyone, however if is someone is lying or a product is putting vehicles at risk, you are damn right I am going to speak up and be extremely blunt about it.       

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SHOdded on July 16, 2019, 11:14:29 AM
Mike, it comes to down doing what you need to do and us doing what we need to do.  When a certain amount of acrimony is building up in the thread, and what could be perceived as acrimonious, as moderators, we step in and remind when/where needed.  There should be NO room for namecalling, but alas, it has been happening.  This thread has not been locked again since bpd requested it be opened, but if there is only speculation and no information forthcoming, as we can plainly see is happening again, no reason why it should stay open.  As long as the posts add value to the thread, the thread stays open, but a certain amount of decorum must be maintained.  And that is all there is to say.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Blackhawk on July 16, 2019, 11:20:55 AM
I've never been an LMS fan mostly based on pricing compared to other available options.  My take is that both parties share blame for the situation.  LMS should have stuck to their guns about the injectors from the beginning but tried to work with a customer.  The injectors should have never been installed without tuning at installation time.  Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on July 16, 2019, 11:32:09 AM
I would also mention Politics of any kind should be refrained from the board! TIA. Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Autowizzard on July 16, 2019, 01:56:09 PM
Hi all! I am new here but not to Ecoboosts, I own a Flex EB with 249K and offer lots of help on Flex Forums and other EB pages. I have been the Installer of almost every part on Mikes Car. I rarely get into these debates but another opinion can't hurt. I have a very small shop in the Joliet area, Finishline Cars. I have worked on Mikes car starting with the turbo install to removing the current engine. I have noting to gain or loose here but do have some facts I would like to share and Questions for Dan and LMS. Before I start I will Say Mikes car is one of the most maintained and babied cars out there. He is big into details and Iv'e almost been scared to do some projects as I do not want to make a mistake or damage anything. Anyway I would like to share some info and facts. If You have a question or comment please let me know..


So we Installed Injectors and Intercooler on Mikes car, New Motorcraft Plugs(gapped correctly) and Upstream sensors (fronts) were installed. a Scan tool was present upon start up, These Injectors Flow 30%ish more than stock, After start up a rich condition was observed and the Ecm did it's job by Removing fuel, Fuel Trims were -35% up as a average. The car did set PO172 and P0175 System Rich codes, Watching Sensors and the fact the car was able to correct Mike and I decided to have him drive the 9 mile drive home. He was then given a tune by LMS to drive there. He had no engine light for misfires and no Rich codes on trip. The car was out of my hands from here out until it returned so I have a few Questions for Dan or anyone who wants to chime in

Dan,

1. If a Car came to your shop (especially with a fuel modification that you were not sure of) Wouldn't you Ask Customer to do a Oil change and maybe Just to be safe and even send oil out for a analysis. Also why would you even think to put it on a dyno if there was a 1% chance of oil contamination? I wouldn't have driven 50 feet if I thought the oil might have a issue.  We do a oil level and visual on even 500 beaters in my shop before we start any vehicle.

2. As you know ODB Vehicles are able to correct Rich or lean conditions, This platform can go pretty far as Iv'e seen almost 50% correction to keep Lambda (ecm perfect fuel ratio) so Unless your tuner turns that function off, This vehicle should have been able to correct (with a check engine light) A/F ratios, And then you made a Tune so it got even better so Mike could drive it.

3. If you Thought these Injectors were so bad and Could cause such damage, Why did you not advise Mike to tow the car to you, He owns a suv and can always use my trailer for a trip.

4. Your staff Advised Mike his few hundred mile spark plugs were "bad", I installed them in my 249K mile Flex (tuned elsewhere) and am almost at 5k miles with no misfires or issues, I even trust it enough that a Family member has been driving it for 3 weeks

5. You claimed that you had dropped the subframe and make tow driver wait for your guys to put back together. Please tell me how you were able to drop the frame without cutting or unwiring the vehicles LED lighting, I'm sure you know Mikes car has extensive aftermarket wiring. The wiring was hardwired and there are no plugs to disconnect to do repair work(pain for sure) Either your mechanics are way more skilled than myself ( a ASE tech) or didn't happenedd as I had to cut 4 wires in order to remove subframe. Also I'm shocked how you would remove the Subframe without any socket witness marks on the bolts ( do you use high end rubber lined sockets? )
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: LostnEye on July 16, 2019, 03:54:59 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:10:47 AM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 16, 2019, 07:34:15 AM
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 05:01:20 PM
Quote from: FearlessAZ on July 15, 2019, 04:38:18 PM
As much as I love drama and how entertaining this thread is, I really think this thread needs to be locked down.

I 100% disagree.  I think the truth will come to surface and since this is a high level company and high level car in our community it needs to stay the course.  If it is shut down I believe it is a dis-service to the community and I will contact Mike Bambic directly and ask to speak to him in person about the matter since he is local.


I meant after the info is stated from both sides. Like what was done previously. Only to cool off and digest the info.

I don't know what facts you like to see other than Mike put in injectors that caused fuel wash and the engine broke. Could some things have been done differently absolutely. But we're living in the real world in the real world not everything is perfect.

This kind of reminds me how Donald Trump is treated in the media. It does seem no matter what we say here it's going to be our fault.
You dug your own hole with how your company is perceived. Mike's involvement on forums and that car was one of the reasons I and I'm sure others looked to Livernois for modding their SHOs however from how your issued with the V11 2013+ tunes and what's worse how it was handled changed a lot of opinions. I'll also throw out there I spoke to someone at Ford Nationals who had work performed at your shop during the time Mike's car was there who mentioned seeing Mike's car parked outside and upon mentioning he was familiar with the car was offered full access with the interior and trunk being opened. He declined as in his and my opinion this is not how you show off customers cars.

The possibility of fuel dilution aside:

1. We are trying to judge the moral character of two individuals whom I would guess most forum users have never met. The tow driver and now Mike's local shop have conflicting stories to yours combined with your already tarnished reputation due to tunes that have issues in cold weather leading to unsafe conditions(I have a log with fuel pressure dropping to 800psi at the rail) you have to expect some skepticism here.   
1. Mike provided oil analysis of the oil that was in the motor when it was back in his possession. If the oil and filter were changed while you still had possession of the car, where is any evidence, pics, oil analysis, etc.
2. You are really standing by the machine work here? Regardless if it was a direct cause of failure which you maintain it was not and at least in this context I will take as fact, the deck surface is visibly poorly machined.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Agentlongwood on July 16, 2019, 04:23:23 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:36:26 AM
Please explain how you would handle this?

Like a PR professional.  Issue 1, and only 1, public statement on the topic saying something like "Unfortunately we do not discuss individual customer cases on public forums.  Rest assured, any customer not completely satisfied with out services will be a top priority for us as we work toward a mutually satisfactory resolution."

Arguing with customers in a public forum is NEVER going to improve a company's public perception.  It can only hurt it.  Having someone post a negative experience is bad, for sure.  But arguing with that customer in public is way worse.  It's not something a company can "win." Even if a hypothetical company was in the right.  Arguing just damages their image as professionals.  You just gotta take the high road: Keep quiet, work with the customer as best you can, deal with the outcome (good or bad) like a pro.

Man... I know, nobody wants to take PR advice from a forum user who's name is a phallic joke, but "Agent Longwood Public Relations" is available for all your PR needs.  Our firm works long and hard to make you look good. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: 76fomoco on July 16, 2019, 04:52:03 PM
At this point 2 guys doing their dirty laundry in a public washer has no good outcome. :(
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Jordan on July 16, 2019, 05:43:03 PM
Quote from: 76fomoco on July 16, 2019, 04:52:03 PM
At this point 2 guys doing their dirty laundry in a public washer has no good outcome. :(

I think of this thread as more of Mike's review and experience with LMS. Unhappy customer going to have an unhappy review
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: MKS Tom on July 17, 2019, 02:42:06 AM
The sad thing is to see what looks two friends have a bad business transaction transpire and it lead to such a disaster.

I always tell people to stay clear of LMS simply because we have several really talented SCT tuners to choose from from and I like the idea of giving business to an independent like that.  I have no intention on going to the extreme of ever going beyond a stock block and will only add a few other bolt ons anyways so they aren't an appealing options in those regards. 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: TSS on July 17, 2019, 08:27:53 AM
Very sad for the car. One of my favorites. My condolences regardless of how it came about.

Todd
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Black Dream on July 17, 2019, 09:06:08 AM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 16, 2019, 08:10:47 AM

This kind of reminds me how Donald Trump is treated in the media. It does seem no matter what we say here it's going to be our fault.

Did you really just say that?  Wow, why don't you tell Mike to "just go back where he came from" to his "shithole..."

When I make any significant purchase I do exhaustive research on whatever it is that I'm going spend my money on to make sure it's an acceptable expenditure and a quality product.  After I made a flood claim on my GTO and waited for the final decision on total loss or not, I spent 100 hours in 3 1/2 weeks looking for the perfect replacement vehicle and possible mods.  I kept my search between either a SHO or the MKS Eco.  After much research, discussions and internal pondering I skipped over Livernois and went with Unleashed for my tune.  They felt "right" and Livernois didn't.  I couldn't be happier with either my car or Unleashed and expect to enjoy both for years to come.

As a business owner myself I'm really disappointed in LMS' responses here.  Is this easy to do, no.  But it is the right thing to do and will earn you a lot more respect than the way you have responded here.  Take the high road, one for the team, one to the chin, whatever but I feel a business should never air dirty laundry nor engage in a tit for tat on a public forum.  It just makes you look bad and I can guarantee your responses here to the situation have netted you 0 new customers and will turn other's decisions away from you when considering tuners.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: ZSHO on July 17, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
FYI- Courtesy reminder NO Politics please! Don't want to see this thread steer off course! TIA. Z
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Autowizzard on July 17, 2019, 11:08:37 PM
I have a few more things to add, I have read this whole tread many times. As a Business owner who does care, I'm a bit shocked at whats been said. We all make mistakes and I've made mine before and will again, EXAMPLE Installing Mikes trans cooler, Ran lines hooked it all up looked good, Woke up next morning, Called Mike and said, I Think I made a mistake on Line routing, Went back over it and I could have have done a better job and did. No hurt feelings, few bucks in fittings and we are all good. 2 more questions to Ponder  from LMS.

We all protect ourselves at home and business, I'm not a super tech guy but have enough cameras to be safe, I'm sure LMS has the same, If I was under supposed attack I would gladly show all video of dyno pulls, mechanical work etc, Many of my customers get 10 plus pics of issues when doing a inspection for repairs or when any major work is done, Safe for myself and they can see what went down, (example did a timing chain on a 3.5, Here are 7 pics on how clean engine was and chain, guide condition etc) I still would love to see the 1 hour subframe drop as I am jelous.

Lastly I am for sure not a pro engine builder or do I claim to be, but have had my hands in enough to know the deal. So On Mikes engine, It is stated that aftermarket bearings were used clevite from my understanding (not a bad brand but definately not what form specs call for). I do know The Ecoboost Crank is not meant to be remachined, Being said Ford uses color coded bearings, Meaning Each bearing pack is specific to measurement from the factory so they can fine tune each bearing, Now Building a high performance engine I would expect the same set up. The fact that one size fits all bearings were used just drops my jaw, Especially as Ford wants to build fast and cheap.Lastly I would love to hear how after 20k of use your bearing clearances (besides spun ones) are still too tight? If they were loose It would be easy to explain, wear and tear but If built wrong ??? Just my opinion but This motor only held up because it was not beat much and well maintained. Lets be serious, Mike is not a Drag guy or a Street racer, So A weak build would hold up to someone who makes the here and there pull an a on ramp or stoplight. Not enough to heat up the crank and bearings, A loaded dyno pull is way harder on any motor. Looks like he just had luck on his side as a daily driver 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: TopherSho on July 18, 2019, 12:00:24 PM
Quote from: Autowizzard on July 17, 2019, 11:08:37 PM
I have a few more things to add, I have read this whole tread many times. As a Business owner who does care, I'm a bit shocked at whats been said. We all make mistakes and I've made mine before and will again, EXAMPLE Installing Mikes trans cooler, Ran lines hooked it all up looked good, Woke up next morning, Called Mike and said, I Think I made a mistake on Line routing, Went back over it and I could have have done a better job and did. No hurt feelings, few bucks in fittings and we are all good. 2 more questions to Ponder  from LMS.

We all protect ourselves at home and business, I'm not a super tech guy but have enough cameras to be safe, I'm sure LMS has the same, If I was under supposed attack I would gladly show all video of dyno pulls, mechanical work etc, Many of my customers get 10 plus pics of issues when doing a inspection for repairs or when any major work is done, Safe for myself and they can see what went down, (example did a timing chain on a 3.5, Here are 7 pics on how clean engine was and chain, guide condition etc) I still would love to see the 1 hour subframe drop as I am jelous.

Lastly I am for sure not a pro engine builder or do I claim to be, but have had my hands in enough to know the deal. So On Mikes engine, It is stated that aftermarket bearings were used clevite from my understanding (not a bad brand but definately not what form specs call for). I do know The Ecoboost Crank is not meant to be remachined, Being said Ford uses color coded bearings, Meaning Each bearing pack is specific to measurement from the factory so they can fine tune each bearing, Now Building a high performance engine I would expect the same set up. The fact that one size fits all bearings were used just drops my jaw, Especially as Ford wants to build fast and cheap.Lastly I would love to hear how after 20k of use your bearing clearances (besides spun ones) are still too tight? If they were loose It would be easy to explain, wear and tear but If built wrong ??? Just my opinion but This motor only held up because it was not beat much and well maintained. Lets be serious, Mike is not a Drag guy or a Street racer, So A weak build would hold up to someone who makes the here and there pull an a on ramp or stoplight. Not enough to heat up the crank and bearings, A loaded dyno pull is way harder on any motor. Looks like he just had luck on his side as a daily driver

I'm super curious about the DECK not being closed when it should have been.  i have no stake here,  but I think that really deserved and answer.  I have a theory ... but i'm keeping it to myself.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: RagingPenguin on July 31, 2019, 10:43:24 AM
This is so upside down I don't know who to believe.


I've had a LMS tune on my 2010 (stage 4 I think...?) for 4 years  now with no real issues (well other than a pre-existing one that no one has figured out) So on one hand I'm in the it's fine pile but there's that tiny nagging voice saying stuff.

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: limited02 on July 31, 2019, 02:16:06 PM
In regards to Mike's engine not being a closed deck, the video from LMS when they built it shows an open deck and even says it's the Pro-series block, which is not closed deck.  I don't know if there was a miscommunication or what, but back when it was built, it's clear as day it was an open deck and not closed.

Edit - I might as well post the video and I don't recall seeing it posted throughout the thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSlvKcG3neo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSlvKcG3neo)
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on July 31, 2019, 09:49:13 PM
Once again, if one stops the video at around the 41 second mark, you can see the deck exposed, and it is lacking all the jagged marks in the deck surface, that are/were present in mine, and ARE NOT in that video.

Those marks were left behind by incredibly poor machining, and the equipment being dragged atop the deck surface.

My engine was also not their 1st EB build. So suffice to say, the block in that video, does not appear to be mine, for the exact reasons stated above.

But at this juncture, it seems to be beating a dead horse. Time for the community to move on.

I know I have. Hope everyone's well.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: limited02 on July 31, 2019, 11:14:39 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on July 31, 2019, 09:49:13 PM
Once again, if one stops the video at around the 41 second mark, you can see the deck exposed, and it is lacking all the jagged marks in the deck surface, that are/were present in mine, and ARE NOT in that video.

Those marks were left behind by incredibly poor machining, and the equipment being dragged atop the deck surface.

My engine was also not their 1st EB build. So suffice to say, the block in that video, does not appear to be mine, for the exact reasons stated above.

But at this juncture, it seems to be beating a dead horse. Time for the community to move on.

I know I have. Hope everyone's well.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Apologies if you've covered it before.  As you said, it's beating a dead horse now and your current build will be everything you intended and then some!  Best of luck Mike! 
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Gjkrisa on July 31, 2019, 11:36:25 PM
Yeap excited to see a 1000 hp Ecoboost

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on August 01, 2019, 12:41:34 AM
That's a goal. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Hopefully it can be achieved.

Lots to tackle. All in due time. Fingers crossed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: EcoPowerParts on August 01, 2019, 10:33:52 AM
I've been through what you're dealing with twice with my CTS-V, you take your lumps and move on, it sucks but it is what it is.
The question I have out of all this is how the hell is the transmission going to handle 1000 HP :)
Might be time to just fix the engine back to where it was and build an 18 ecoboost truck, at least the transmission can be built or swapped to a turbo 400 for max effort. :) I mean you can keep trying to push the boundary but the transmission and PTU are the weak points above 600WHP, it's been proven over and over again.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: limited02 on August 01, 2019, 11:46:10 AM
Quote from: EcoPowerParts on August 01, 2019, 10:33:52 AM
I've been through what you're dealing with twice with my CTS-V, you take your lumps and move on, it sucks but it is what it is.
The question I have out of all this is how the hell is the transmission going to handle 1000 HP :)
Might be time to just fix the engine back to where it was and build an 18 ecoboost truck, at least the transmission can be built or swapped to a turbo 400 for max effort. :) I mean you can keep trying to push the boundary but the transmission and PTU are the weak points above 600WHP, it's been proven over and over again.
https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/bpd1151s-2010-rebuild-thread.139715/page-2#post-1514705
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: FLEXXX on August 01, 2019, 03:34:31 PM
Quote from: EcoPowerParts on August 01, 2019, 10:33:52 AM
Might be time to just build an ecoboost truck

im super ass backwards, I got rid of my f150 (built with tunes from mike at MPT) and got the flex..
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: bpd1151 on August 01, 2019, 05:12:10 PM
@EPP......thanks Mike B. for the post. The entire experience/debacle has been nerve racking to say the least. Alas though, I digress. Too exhausting to keep being re-victimized to continue it's discussion.

Moving along though, I'm in too deep with the SHO as it is, in order to just walk away from it entirely. Besides, I like the uniqueness of it.

Much like the Flex's, one sees very few of either on the road. Yet alone modded one's.

I'm motivated and have been logging a butt load of overtime hours.

I had many to thank for how far the SHO came before this, and will have many more to continue thanking as I move forward, if successful and the intended goals are at least closely achieved, or met entirely.

Time will tell. I'll be happy either way. It's my SHO afterall.

I've always enjoyed rep'n the platform, (particularly for this GEN) much like Zach Wright and his infamous, record setting OF ALL GEN SHO's dubbed the "Blue Turd" has been for him.

Thanks again for the post. Hope all is well.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: StealBlueSho on August 01, 2019, 05:34:08 PM
Quote from: EcoPowerParts on August 01, 2019, 10:33:52 AM
I've been through what you're dealing with twice with my CTS-V, you take your lumps and move on, it sucks but it is what it is.
The question I have out of all this is how the hell is the transmission going to handle 1000 HP :)
Might be time to just fix the engine back to where it was and build an 18 ecoboost truck, at least the transmission can be built or swapped to a turbo 400 for max effort. :) I mean you can keep trying to push the boundary but the transmission and PTU are the weak points above 600WHP, it's been proven over and over again.

I thought you said 500awhp for the trans based on the results from your flex?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: EcoPowerParts on August 01, 2019, 07:33:20 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSHO on August 01, 2019, 05:34:08 PM
Quote from: EcoPowerParts on August 01, 2019, 10:33:52 AM
I've been through what you're dealing with twice with my CTS-V, you take your lumps and move on, it sucks but it is what it is.
The question I have out of all this is how the hell is the transmission going to handle 1000 HP :)
Might be time to just fix the engine back to where it was and build an 18 ecoboost truck, at least the transmission can be built or swapped to a turbo 400 for max effort. :) I mean you can keep trying to push the boundary but the transmission and PTU are the weak points above 600WHP, it's been proven over and over again.

I thought you said 500awhp for the trans based on the results from your flex?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
600, 500 the trans and PTU is the limiting factor in the platform unless you strip off about 2K lbs :D
Mike I'd say fix your car, keep it a show car and run your mid 11's when desired and keep it trouble free. If it's paid off then that's your SHO (show) vehicle and have fun with it but it's basically done. Find something else to build to go fast IMHO otherwise you're getting ready to have a huge exercise in frustration, I mean everybody loves to cheer on someone using their own money to make a vehicle but smashing your head into the wall repeatedly with constantly breaking parts while past the bleeding edge is just horrible, ask me how I know. :)
You'd have a perfect vehicle, a race truck that can tow your show car all ecoboost. :)
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Dxlnt1 on August 02, 2019, 02:48:09 PM
I know its probably too late but what if......

1. Someone here is an authorized Ford rep? (FoMoCo)
2. Could they secure you crate engine from the GT?
3. The dual clutch? trans thats used in it better built for your desire?

Then maybe the only limit would be finding some kinda way to program the ECM, trans and AWD to work together!
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: SM105K on August 02, 2019, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on August 02, 2019, 02:48:09 PM
I know its probably too late but what if......

1. Someone here is an authorized Ford rep? (FoMoCo)
You have to directly work with a Ford Concierge. 

2. Could they secure you crate engine from the GT?
No they cannot.  I highly doubt parts will be available for non GT customers for a extended period of time.  I mean it took years before the Hellcat Motors were offered as a factory crate option.

3. The dual clutch? trans thats used in it better built for your desire?
If you could secure one, the GT 3.5 block is completely different and will not directly fit the 6f55.  Even then if you could get it to work, the GT 3.5 will tear that 6f55 and PTU to shreds.  He would have to abandon the whole transverse set up, and he has stated he isn't willing to do that.  He would need a whole GT drivetrain, some type of transfer case, and some type of front axle powertrain assembly.  For the amount of money and fabrication he is looking at least 40K on the low end, he might as well just buy a new GT500 that has a warranty and looks amazing.   

Then maybe the only limit would be finding some kinda way to program the ECM, trans and AWD to work together!

Answers in bold.
Title: Re: A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....
Post by: Dxlnt1 on August 03, 2019, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: SM105K on August 02, 2019, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on August 02, 2019, 02:48:09 PM
I know its probably too late but what if......

1. Someone here is an authorized Ford rep? (FoMoCo)
You have to directly work with a Ford Concierge. 

2. Could they secure you crate engine from the GT?
No they cannot.  I highly doubt parts will be available for non GT customers for a extended period of time.  I mean it took years before the Hellcat Motors were offered as a factory crate option.

3. The dual clutch? trans thats used in it better built for your desire?
If you could secure one, the GT 3.5 block is completely different and will not directly fit the 6f55.  Even then if you could get it to work, the GT 3.5 will tear that 6f55 and PTU to shreds.  He would have to abandon the whole transverse set up, and he has stated he isn't willing to do that.  He would need a whole GT drivetrain, some type of transfer case, and some type of front axle powertrain assembly.  For the amount of money and fabrication he is looking at least 40K on the low end, he might as well just buy a new GT500 that has a warranty and looks amazing.   

Then maybe the only limit would be finding some kinda way to program the ECM, trans and AWD to work together!

Answers in bold.

I concur with most you said. But I was thinking out loud.

However, the GT engine (detuned) is being used in F-150 (raptor). I also believe there is 4wd version of the F-150 so adapting it for AWD vs 4wd use may not be impossible.

Even if finding a wrecked raptor and exploring. I considered this as a means of not adding meth to my car and still bumping performance up. I didnt put too much effort into tho.

Anyway, just wild thoughts/ideas!
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