Okay so I decided to make an attempt at tackling this today and was quickly thwarted. I have an 11 PP edition and no matter how I try there isn't a straight shot to the plug in the side of the PTU. I don't have the cooler and all of that on the '13+ but it looks to be the CAT, Oxygen sensor, and sway bar are conspiring against me in some perfect way to block any attempt at getting the socket extension in there. It would be a straight shot if the oxygen sensor wasn't in the way.
I do remember that PP's have a nub and heat shield on the half shaft that caused some early downpipe interference...I am wondering if the exhaust is in a different place on mine? (I know that sounds ridiculous)
I could obviously drop the CAT but that sounds like a major deal without a lift. I'm wondering if I could disconnect the sway bar on both sides and rotate it out of the way?
Stuck...
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/17/apedyjam.jpg)
Pic...
Close up
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/17/nu7ypu5e.jpg)
Hummmm. can you take a pic right below the O2 sensor? If I can see from that angle I'll know if it's different.
Had to put the tire back on. May try and tackle it from under the car tomorrow...thanks for offering. I will get a better pic tomorrow if I can't figure it out.
Might try mine tonight. Bought fluid and pump, so my OCD will kick in most likely. Mine is non pp 2011, will take a pic and share.
It's back there. ..just over o2 sensor straight back almost same level as o2...large square type bit to get off...if looked at from under car it has (at least seen on couple cars now) red thread lock type stuff on it...
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/ajydajab.jpg)
Yeah your going to have to get under the car. It's not hard to get to it, a couple long extensions will be helpful.
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What is the bit used to take out plug? Not mentioned in how to.
Just a 3/8 ratchet end...no socket required I believe.
Thx...trying that now...definitely need a swivel to get back there as a straight shot doesn't work...knuckles are sore at this moment from the slip to knuckle bash...oooh
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 18, 2014, 10:18:00 AM
Thx...trying that now...definitely need a swivel to get back there as a straight shot doesn't work...knuckles are sore at this moment from the slip to knuckle bash...oooh
So you can't get in there straight with a non PP either? Weird - as it sounds like some people have no problem. Are you under the car or going in from the right front tire area?
Yes...so close to straight shot but extension set up does not make it...binds up at o2 and create bad angle
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 18, 2014, 10:35:47 AM
Yes...so close to straight shot but extension set up does not make it...binds up at o2 and create bad angle
Yep same thing on mine from the right front...I still (hopefully) plan on trying it from under the car or I suppose I could attempt a swivel / extension if I can find the right lengths from the side.
From under car is near impossible. I have skinny arms and hands and thought I was stuck in there this morning!!! Lol...had to take my son to ortho right now but before I left 2 9" extensions, swivel, and then 2 short extensions worked to get there. Didn't get to attempt the removal yet.
You can't do it from under the car without some seriously small hands. It it's easiest to take it out from the wheel well. Then Crawl under to suck the oil out.
Roger that. 2 6" extensions to correct myself in previous post also.
Just got in there straight shot...more extension than mentioned would be nice...had to start as far left of o2 as possible getting it all the way in and then sliding it over...very tight, but it is possible. Just can't start straight at it.
Ok...perfect setup is a 10" wobble extension off of socket to 2 6" extensions....wobble extension gives perfect amount of flexibility! !!
Got a picture?! Thanks for the feedback.
Of extension used...or where I went in at...very easy to get to with wobble extension....bought from O'Reilly's...
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/tepy5a2y.jpg)
Thanks! Stopping on my way home. Get any fluid yet?
Just loosened bolt...cable guy just showed an hour early. ..wtf...that never happens
Before
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After wipe
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/e9e2ubes.jpg)
Looks like mine did. How many miles are you at?
35k
Lifetime fluid...lmao
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/davenu6a.jpg)
Pic from underneath with plug out. Looks as if it was leaking some how, but the said look of fluid is at opening and upward ?
If there is a vent tube atop the unit, could have been fluid coming out of there down the side.
I don't see any leak. Have you managed to get any oil out yet?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/u6u2uvyb.jpg)
Almost.
That hole would be easier to work with if there was some hair around it...lol
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 18, 2014, 12:44:03 PM
Almost.
What are you using for a pump/suction tool?
Very slow. About to cut hoses to size and see if that helps...maybe 4oz so far.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/eta4a2eq.jpg)
Doesn't help having to hold cable guys hand through his job. Maybe he'd like to crawl under the SHO.
While doing this with everything hot might invite burned fingers but the lube would probably flow better.
It's cold...tempted to just get a bendy straw and suck this crap out...maybe 6 oz and slowly counting...at a point where I'm just filling lines then pulling it out and emptying lines....patience is required for this task....to the guys who did it in 15 minutes, I salute you...at this point it might be the 1 finger salute
After cutting length of tubes on siphon pump I have slow drip...small battle just won
Still dripping. At 10 oz in jar and maybe an oz on the pavement
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More than I managed to get out lol. Mine was low to begin with.
Final tally is 12 oz in jar and 1-2 oz spillage.
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 18, 2014, 02:40:29 PM
More than I managed to get out lol. Mine was low to begin with.
I know you posted miles at change before but I can't recall?
21k is when I changed mine.
Wow...is there a suggested break in time, drive like a kitten period?
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 18, 2014, 11:55:46 AM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/tepy5a2y.jpg)
Bought and put the wobble end in the plug. Went on top of o2 sensor. Put a swivel on that and another long extension. Came right out! You sir are a genius. :)
Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 18, 2014, 03:15:26 PM
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 18, 2014, 11:55:46 AM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/tepy5a2y.jpg)
Bought and put the wobble end in the plug. Went on top of o2 sensor. Put a swivel on that and another long extension. Came right out! You sir are a genius. :)
Glad to be of some help. Was lucky to spot the wobble as I've never used one before...trial and error at its best...thx
I am getting excited about doing this. The last time I did an oil change, I looked the situation over and it appeared removing the plug from the bottom would be tricky - at best. I appreciate all of the "blow-by-blow" descriptions you all are providing about doing it through the wheel well.
Question: After removing the plug, are you crawling under the car to insert the tube in the PTU? I am not sure my fat @ss will fit without having the car on ramps. This job would be easier with a lift.... I guess that is beyond obvious....
Must get under to insert tube in PTU, no room to get arms in through wheel well...have car on 4 jack stands to keep level for refill...will definitely use mechanics well in pole barn next time
Used this little pump to fill it up...worked pretty good besides the tight fit
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/a3eganes.jpg)
Took out 13-14 oz. After measuring fluid left in bottle, I ended up getting 14 back in it.
So I got out literally 2-3 ounces out and it was super pasty. Ugh. Put about 10 back in. Going to do flush and refill/do over. Just over 60 k on the car. If you haven't done this...do it now!!
I am going to try smaller tube next time although I thought I was on the bottom...what size did you guys use to remove the old stuff?
Good to hear. Let me know how the car feels.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/muga5any.jpg)
I pulled 2-3 and then kept wiggling around until I seemed to find a void and got rest out.
Any break in time before wot?
Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 18, 2014, 04:22:19 PM
I am going to try smaller tube next time although I thought I was on the bottom...what size did you guys use to remove the old stuff?
I ended up using a 1/4 copper tube so I could shove it to the bottom without having the hose ball up or kink. It's tuff getting it to the bottom.
Can you take a picture of the fluid you took out?
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 18, 2014, 04:25:23 PM
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/muga5any.jpg)
I pulled 2-3 and then kept wiggling around until I seemed to find a void and got rest out.
Any break in time before wot?
I drove lightly in reverse and forward for a bit. Maybe 3 miles before I gave it wot.
Nice...here we go...test drive time...
Good luck :thumb:
Just got off the highway. I wish I had recorded some data previously to doing this...like an 80-60 coast down time. It feels sooo much smoother...less drag. Not sure if it helps WOT but it can't hurt. I am definitely getting g a smaller tube next time although given how much I got back in I was definitely low and what I pulled out was sludge. It barely flows... Warranty was done 500 miles ago. Hopefully I did this in time.
That's great to hear. I noticed a decrease in drive train drag as well. It's amazing how such a small gear box is the pinch point of these systems.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/19/ma2evaqa.jpg)
This is all I got with a mitivac. I am holding it almost horizontal and it isn't rushing out. #thatcan'tbegood
Wow that is bad. Mine was still fluid. A few flushes would be a good idea.
That's some thick stuff right there. Coasting is smoother for sure and a rolling WOT seems more responsive. Didn't get to brake boost a launch but take off was crispy with firm shifts. Would give it at least 15 miles of stop n go through the gears as I only took small journey to e-way and first time getting on it produced a slight hesitation from gear to gear under high rpm's...after little warm up that was gone.
Glad to hear it helped. Did I mention how much I hate the smell of gear oil. Sitting down for dinner with my wife in a bit and am waiting for "what's that smell!?!"
Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 18, 2014, 05:27:27 PM
Glad to hear it helped. Did I mention how much I hate the smell of gear oil. Sitting down for dinner with my wife in a bit and am waiting for "what's that smell!?!"
Oh yeah...used gear oil smells like auto death. My son smelled the jar (haha) 2 hours ago and says he can taste it still.
Haha that crap lingers for days! Found out toothpaste on the hands gets it off.
Just got back after a little spin. Gonna have to say that the biggest difference I've noticed now is when getting on it pretty hard and letting off at around 55 with all that torque built up and how it seems alot less harsh...got the chills a little!!!
Very cool! I may swap my fluid again tomorrow just because there was so much sludge in it.
Be interesting to see how discolored it is from the quick change. Wonder how this royal purple is gonna look compared to the ford gear oil after some miles?
Quote from: SHOdded on July 18, 2014, 12:41:38 PM
If there is a vent tube atop the unit, could have been fluid coming out of there down the side.
There is a tsb on that actually
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Who's done this on a PP 13? Would love to change mine in the near future. Just want to know all before I begin. 25,600 on the clock
If I remember correctly, dpipe needs moved on 13 pp
I am going to give this a shot tomorrow, mine is a 13 with PP. I'll let you guys know how I make out.
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Quote from: ShoBoat on July 19, 2014, 12:36:09 AM
I am going to give this a shot tomorrow, mine is a 13 with PP. I'll let you guys know how I make out.
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Good luck. As I enter garage this morning, the overwhelming smell of dirty PTU fluid screams, "do outside" next time.
Well it turns out that the Temp sensor is the fill hole on the 13+PP cars. Unfortunately there is a heat shield in the way of that, and I just don't have enough room to get at it without a lift. I did remove the DP, I can see both the drain and the fill (Temp sensor). I just cant get to the retaining bolt for the Temp sensor heat shield. I can't even see it, I could only feel it above and behind the shield. So I am going to see if a buddy of mine has lift time available. I will keep you posted.
let us know I gave up...........
Quote from: 68_GT on July 19, 2014, 02:09:11 PM
let us know I gave up...........
Will do, I share your frustration. This is the second time attempting this. So maybe third times the charm?
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Did any of you download the service manual instructions from my FTP?
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I got the info from a friend if mine, the full instructions would be helpful to say the least.
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Go figure that the one with actual fill plug is a pain in the A $$ to do???
FTP:71.89.39.226:29440
User : Taurus Club
Pass : 2013
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I changed it on my 2010 MKS with 50,000 miles today. I was able to remove the plug from the bottom using a swivel head ratchet. I thought the plug would be pretty tight but it came out surprisingly easy.
I was able to remove about 12 ounces. I just couldn't get the tube in as deeply as I would have liked to. I must have been bumping into a gear or shaft or something. The old fluid was much thinner than I expected - maybe because I did it while it was warm. I have a burn on my arm to prove that. Honestly, the old lube was not as bad as I expected. The plug is magnetized and it had some residue on it but I have seen much worse in transmissions or differentials.
I think this is good maintenance but I do not think mine was in dire shape. I might not drive my car as hard as some guys or maybe the fluid that I couldn't get out was really bad. I don't know but at least I feel better about doing it.
I drive the s*** out of my car. The last 240 hours of driving I've averaged 17 mpg. Hah. So I assume the oil is drive dependant.
Quote from: wasinger3000 on July 19, 2014, 04:29:34 PM
I drive the s*** out of my car. The last 240 hours of driving I've averaged 17 mpg. Hah. So I assume the oil is drive dependant.
LOL....Oh, mine knows what full throttle is and I don't let it forget that there are a couple of turbos down there just itching to make some power. However, I would say 95% of my driving is just commuting to work and cruising.
Again, I am not discounting the value of changing the fluid. It is definitely good maintenance but some might need it more than others - for whatever reason.
I don't beat on my car by any means but I definitely drive fast. I build up a lot of heat cruising at pretty high speeds, passing etc...I did think of one more thing which is I actually had a leaking PTU seal (half shaft) 40K miles ago or so that was replaced under warranty. I "Assumed" they would have topped it off at the time but now I am wondering if they di or if the fluid got contaminated? I am going to reserve judgment until I do this again next weekend with my smaller tube and see if I can get more out. I do know what I removed was more sludge like than liquid.
When they changed the seal, they might not have gotten it full. Changing it again soon is a good idea. I had mine perfectly level and as soon as I took the plug out, some fluid ran down the side of the case so mine was plenty full.
It is not as comfortable but I think changing it when it is warm might help get more of it out. Just a thought...
Good advice. I may try that...
Just warm it up with a torch lol
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Quote from: jmr061 on July 19, 2014, 05:03:44 PM
Just warm it up with a torch lol
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LOL...it is kind of ugly to work on when the exhaust is hot. I would at least drive it around the block to stir up the lubricant prior to sucking it out.
Other than a fried arm, skinned up knuckles, and a stiff neck from laying on my back and contorting my head so I could see what I was doing, I am glad I did this job. I think I need to make a better device to insert into the opening, though - maybe a piece of copper tubing, like someone else used. I just couldn't get the plastic tube to the bottom of the case without hitting gears or whatever. Maybe something stiffer with the right bend in it would work better.
I actually went up and then over as weird as that sounds...then again I didn't get out much fluid.
I am getting mine done tomorrow. I have managed to get some lift time. I'll make sure to take lots of pics. How often are you guys changing the rdu fluid? I am also going to change that out tomorrow.
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I actually had the dealer change the RDU at 50k.
I haven't done the RDU yet but that is next on my list..along with rear brake pads.
Wait, so do PP equipped cars have the upper fill plug? But, there's a temp sensor occupying the orifice? Am I understanding this correctly?
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Quote from: IHeartGroceries on July 20, 2014, 04:55:04 PM
Wait, so do PP equipped cars have the upper fill plug? But, there's a temp sensor occupying the orifice? Am I understanding this correctly?
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Yup that's it exactly.
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Anyone else have any seat of the pants reviews. ..was pulling .5 knock max before change...today pulling 2 at wot from a stop and less tire spin
Curious this morning so I plug in tuner and get 5 dtc's. Also tuner showed that somehow it flashed itself back to stock? Can this even happen or is car not taking the programmed tune?
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 21, 2014, 09:13:49 AM
Curious this morning so I plug in tuner and get 5 dtc's. Also tuner showed that somehow it flashed itself back to stock? Can this even happen or is car not taking the programmed tune?
which dtc's? And which tuner are you using?
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Mycalibrator...new one from this spring...3 of dtc's were doubles...p260f, u0131, u0100 (3times)...when running the 4plus+ I never get a dtc...when running the 4+ I'd get p1000 (emissions I think, normal)
Searched for list of dtc's. ..one place I found I need to register (eautorepair.net)...any others?
When I hooked up the MyCal a couple of months ago to go from 4+ to 4X, it showed several DTCs. The check engine light has never come on so I think they were either random misfires that may have occurred before I changed plugs, false alarms or just simply irrelevant. Many others have noted similar DTCs. I cleared mine and went on my merry way.
I cannot imagine how it could flash itself back to stock by itself. That one has me puzzled!
Quote from: Brucelinc on July 21, 2014, 10:03:09 AM
When I hooked up the MyCal a couple of months ago to go from 4+ to 4X, it showed several DTCs. The check engine light has never come on so I think they were either random misfires that may have occurred before I changed plugs, false alarms or just simply irrelevant. Many others have noted similar DTCs. I cleared mine and went on my merry way.
I cannot imagine how it could flash itself back to stock by itself. That one has me puzzled!
Me too??? Wonder if these codes popped up because of the obdlink being plugged in overnight and popping dash warnings when I started...usually when I plug tuner in it shows the tune I'm using, this time stock was up...
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 21, 2014, 09:19:11 AM
Mycalibrator...new one from this spring...3 of dtc's were doubles...p260f, u0131, u0100 (3times)...when running the 4plus+ I never get a dtc...when running the 4+ I'd get p1000 (emissions I think, normal)
U0100 is a communication error, probably due to the dongle being left in. I have had that one pop up. I have had Mycalibrator report that the stock tune is loaded when in fact the 93 was loaded. I don't believe that it's possible for the PCM to revert to stock on it's own with our cars. Do you have access to FORScan? It will tell you exactly what the codes are. See pic.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/21/8unu7a4e.jpg)
These are the codes that pop up after an error with the MXobd or when you unplug the battery.
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Appreciate the look. Laptop is a must I see to get better data and more access to this complex system. About to go for a test run see if it was actually back to stock or just bringing it up by default for some reason now.
One more thing...last few times the avg mpg has been reset when starting also?
Ok...the reset of mpg is my dumb fault, as I mount tablet I must have slightly pressed the reset button as this morning I turned hazards on myself. :-[
Well I did this again with a smaller tube and rotating the wheel three times seemed to help as I got out about 10 ounces. Less sludgy this time around. You need to be patient with it to really get the fluid out. I definitely think doing this a few times on my car will help desludge it...so to speak. I plan regular maintenance to the ptu from here on out. I can do the whole job in less than an hour...would be much less if it wasn't so hard cleaning up all the black sludge!
Glad to hear you got some real fluid outta that thing. Live and learn thing right here alot of us have experienced now. Think I'm still getting whiffs of PTU fluid lingering around.
That is good news, ecoboostsho. This will be an annual maintenance item for me from now on.
Quote from: ecoboostsho on July 26, 2014, 09:56:12 PM
Well I did this again with a smaller tube and rotating the wheel three times seemed to help as I got out about 10 ounces. Less sludgy this time around. You need to be patient with it to really get the fluid out. I definitely think doing this a few times on my car will help desludge it...so to speak. I plan regular maintenance to the ptu from here on out. I can do the whole job in less than an hour...would be much less if it wasn't so hard cleaning up all the black sludge!
Any "but dyno" that feels a change in ride?
The biggest improvement was after the first time honestly. This time it just seems to shift better and is generally smoother. Happy with the results though!
Sounds like the concensus. Piece of mind might just be the best part of this maintenance.
What size tubing are you using?
Quote from: Josephm on July 27, 2014, 11:30:35 PM
What size tubing are you using?
Page 6 has pic of what I used.
Quote from: Josephm on July 27, 2014, 11:30:35 PM
What size tubing are you using?
Looks (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3360.msg50519.html#msg50519) like a 9/32? It's the stock tube from the Pennzoil pump kit (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006AZKBO4) cut to size.
Anyone with a 2013 PP perform the PTU fluid swap yet?
Quote from: Boggus on July 28, 2014, 11:05:47 PM
Anyone with a 2013 PP perform the PTU fluid swap yet?
From what I've seen (don't own a 2013+ pp) the dpipes(one of em)and heat shield need removed making it a lot tougher of a job.
Quote from: SHOnUup on July 29, 2014, 06:45:25 AM
Quote from: Boggus on July 28, 2014, 11:05:47 PM
Anyone with a 2013 PP perform the PTU fluid swap yet?
From what I've seen (don't own a 2013+ pp) the dpipes(one of em)and heat shield need removed making it a lot tougher of a job.
Nearly impossible without a lift.
Dang. Impossible?
I've done some pretty invasive repair and upgrade work on various automobiles, just in my garage on jack stands.
What makes it nearly impossible? Is it just a matter of clearance?
Ridiculous it should be so difficult, just to perform a fluid swap. >: (
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Quote from: IHeartGroceries on July 29, 2014, 08:47:36 AM
Dang. Impossible?
I've done some pretty invasive repair and upgrade work on various automobiles, just in my garage on jack stands.
What makes it nearly impossible? Is it just a matter of clearance?
Ridiculous it should be so difficult, just to perform a fluid swap. >: (
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I really should have taken pictures lol. The 2013 + with PP have a drain plug OEM. The fill hole is the temp sensor (old fill on non PP) . You have to remove the DP first. No problem. Once the DP is removed you then need to remove the heat shield to access the temp sensor. The heat shield is attached with a single torx bolt. It's located on the top of the PTU. Also in the way is the oil return from the turbo. I could see the bolt, however getting to it was an issue. None of the tools I had was able to get to it without removing the oil return line. If that even helped, the big issue was that you need to be double jointed to do this while lying on your back. No matter how I tried to access that freaking bolt I just couldn't get to it. I am thinking of adding a Fumoto valve to the drain and accessing the fluid that way. You could just measure the exact amount of fluid that comes out and pump the new fluid back in. (Crash's idea).
I was just going reiterate it once again. Forget the sensor where you fill at. I am sure the capacity is published some where. And simply pump back thru the drain.
I also was thwarted in my PTU change the other day on my '11 non-PP. Does anyone recall what size hex plug is in the dang thing?
I had everything all set up and couldn't get the dang plug out.
Its not a hex plug but square...just use the end of the wobble socket or a 3/8 ratchet end to pull it out. You have to get creative with extensions and swivels but its doable. See beginning of this thread for some ideas...
^^^x2
Quote from: ecoboostsho on August 19, 2014, 10:12:39 PM
Its not a hex plug but square...just use the end of the wobble socket or a 3/8 ratchet end to pull it out. You have to get creative with extensions and swivels but its doable. See beginning of this thread for some ideas...
Mine sure feels (and looks) like a hex. I tried a shorty 3/8 inch socket extension and it won't work. In the original writeup, it says it is a hex (and mine is) but doesn't mention a size.
Well that's weird - Ford must have had two different plugs they used. So basically it's an allen type socket extension you need then?
Quote from: ecoboostsho on August 20, 2014, 02:58:12 PM
Well that's weird - Ford must have had two different plugs they used. So basically it's an allen type socket extension you need then?
Affirmative. It appears from some of the writeups and photos that some have the typical square plug (which I expected) and others have a hex (allen) type plug. :(
I was all set for the square plug (like the kind you normally see on a diff). When I have time to get it sorted I'll post a pic. Probably won't be until Labor Day weekend though.
Just tried to do mine (2011 SHO, non pp), here are a few things I thought of:
1. If you can remove the o2 sensor, you'd have a straight shot at the plug (I am going to try this next time)
2. You don't need to remove the wheel housing
3. Trying to get the plug put back in with the o2 sensor in the way is a pita
4. Trying to go from underneath was a no go, not enough room to wiggle my hand up in there, let alone the plug.
5. Keep your garage cracked and air flowing out, the oil likes to linger for quite a while...
I was only able to extract about 100 or so ml from mine, but when I filled it, it seemed to take an extra 100 ml, so like a few others that I have read I must have been low.
An idea that I am also going to try next time is to take some copper tubing that is bigger than the tubing I will use to suction up the oil, bend it straight and at the end bend it at somewhere between a 45 and 75 degree angle. Then from there, shove the tubing down the copper to where not only would it make it easier to get it in the plug hole, but it would help flex the tubing down into the transfer case. The other thing I wanted to try with this setup is to use some plastic hose/tubing that you would use to hook up a fridge or a filtered water tap. Not only is it small, if not smaller than the regular tubing people seem to be using, but it is also much more stiff to were it might be able to shoved into the transfer case more than a normal rubber/vinyl hose. The other nice thing about having the copper, is that when you are done, you can just pull the tubing into the copper and spare yourself from dripping oil on things like the heat shield like I happened to do. I'll make sure to post up some pictures when I do, maybe towards Christmas time when I have time off again and the fluid has been in there for a couple of months.
-Nick
Quote from: SHO-Pa on August 21, 2014, 02:06:28 PM
Quote from: ecoboostsho on August 20, 2014, 02:58:12 PM
Well that's weird - Ford must have had two different plugs they used. So basically it's an allen type socket extension you need then?
Affirmative. It appears from some of the writeups and photos that some have the typical square plug (which I expected) and others have a hex (allen) type plug. :(
I was all set for the square plug (like the kind you normally see on a diff). When I have time to get it sorted I'll post a pic. Probably won't be until Labor Day weekend though.
Well, I figured out its a 14 mm hex plug in my '11. Not much room to work in there. I can't believe Ford doesn't have a change interval on the PTU. I can feel more driveline drag between 22k miles (when I purchased) and now (32k). Based on that a 25-30k interval seems like the way it should be.
Glad you got it and hopefully this will help others who have that style of plug.
My PTU just started puking oil out what appears to be the vent toward the top...just not sure why yet as it already had the TSB for that issue performed.
TSB 10-14-2 (http://www.revbase.com/BBBMOTOR/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=171259) the one you are referring to as done? Possible overfill at last change? In the TSB, they do refer to filling the PTU with fluid (step 8) in WSM Section 308-07.
Attached the 2013 version (probably not useful for 2010-12) as a reference, JIC.
Quote from: SHOdded on September 08, 2014, 12:37:59 PM
TSB 10-14-2 (http://www.revbase.com/BBBMOTOR/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=171259) the one you are referring to as done? Possible overfill at last change? In the TSB, they do refer to filling the PTU with fluid (step 8) in WSM Section 308-07.
Attached the 2013 version (probably not useful for 2010-12) as a reference, JIC.
Yes that one...although it says it is for a 2010 only? I've got a 2011. I definitely don't think I have that vent installed by the brake booster. Does anyone else have this done? I am going to have to go back and look at my service records but I swear they had to tackle something like this at one point. I will be quite upset if it says I have the TSB done but don't have the vent hose attached...especially now that I am out of warranty and it's 4.5 hours of labor.
Also this just started happening...I did the refill over a month ago by now I believe so I can't imagine it is just now blowing fluid out the top from an overfill?? I did have just the front on jackstands when I filled it up but if anything I was worried about underfilling it not over filling it based on the angle.
They did not update the TSB AFAIK, but the fix should apply to all 2010-12 SHOs, probably the Flex as well. There is a possibility that the trans-PTU seal is leaking pushing trans fluid into the PTU, which then comes out of the vent tube. Refer to this (http://www.justanswer.com/ford/6zqqk-ford-flex-sel-2009-ford-looks-leaking-gear.html) webpage.
Expert: Kenny Z. replied 2 years ago.
22381 PTU INPUT SEAL - NEW ESSENTIAL SPECIAL SERVICE TOOL (ESST) AND WSM PROCEDURE
ESSENTIAL SPECIAL SERVICE TOOL (ESST) KIT #308-777 IS NOW AVAILABLE TO SERVICE THE PTU
INPUT SEAL (-7H469-) INSTEAD OF REPLACING THE PTU. ONLINE WORKSHOP MANUAL (WSM)
HAS BEEN UPDATED. REFER TO WSM, SECTION 308-07B. USE AVAILABLE SERVICE LABOR TIMES.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 31-MAY-2012
Kenny Z., Ford Senior Master Tech
The TSB 11-4-20 (http://www.revbase.com/BBBMOTOR/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=176591) seems relevant here.
Awesome....not. Hopefully that isn't my issue. Very much appreciate your help.
This actually just started happening after the BG service on my Trans. I didn't think it could be in anyway related but now I am wondering...maybe the pressure from the service damaged the seal and it is leaking it in to the PTU?
If it did, the seal was probably already on its' way out, unless there was a gross level of incompetence by the technician performing the service.
Quote from: SHOdded on September 08, 2014, 01:11:12 PM
If it did, the seal was probably already on its' way out, unless there was a gross level of incompetence by the technician performing the service.
Cool. It wouldn't surprise me the seal was on its way out already given the fact that my PTU was so low on fluid and probably generating excess heat etc...that said if this is the issue I'm still not happy this happened right out of warranty with this crappy PTU. If I'm going to spend the $500-$600 in labor I am going to contemplate just having them install a whole new PTU but I'm guessing those are expensive.
On the plus side the ATF will probably clean the rest of the sludge out of my PTU...LOL.
Are you out of powertrain warranty? 5/60. New PTU/PTOs are about $700 from dealer according to fordparts.com. So tack on labor to that, 5-6 hours probably, and you are near $1,500 OOP. Probably get a 2-yr warranty to go with, that's the good part. Labor may be cheaper at a trusted mechanic.
Quote from: SHOdded on September 08, 2014, 01:16:14 PM
Are you out of powertrain warranty?
61K...ends at 60K correct?
Yup, but close enough to see if the dealer will cover it or at least split the cost with you.
Worth a shot! Thanks again.
Ahhhh...not going as smoothly this time...maybe 2 ounces and a drip
Rich
That's not good...
Quote from: ecoboostsho on June 03, 2015, 10:36:31 AM
That's not good...
Think my pump is in a bad mood, I checked level prior and the hose in PTU is full of fluid, no suction for some reason.
Rich
Time for some ... FIRE IN THE HOLE!!! Maybe do the oil change and use the used oil to "flush" the pump hose(s)?
What diameter is your hose? I know it's a pretty tight fit going in the plug hole in trying to make the turn going down. Is it a rubber hose only. It may be binding or getting stuck not going all the way down
Same hose I had success with last year. Small diameter rubber hose. It's definitely getting in there. I can remove and wipe clean, then get another 3" of fluid on it each time.
Rich
Bought same exact cheap little pump...8 ounces and a steady drip current situation. We have hope.
Fluid looks beat up too
Rich
Which fluid had you used last time, Rich? Isn't it a bit early for it to give up? Looking forward to pics :)
Royal purple...checked it prior to opening day for Milan Dragway and it looked pretty good for color. Looks completely black now.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/03/7fe10f04f679fb02aafe4c9c6ab6e88d.jpg)
Rich
Aren't their products supposed to change color once put into operation? Purple color gives way to black/honey whatever the base fluid is supposed to be?
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 03, 2015, 11:51:12 AM
Same hose I had success with last year. Small diameter rubber hose. It's definitely getting in there. I can remove and wipe clean, then get another 3" of fluid on it each time.
Rich
More than likely a pump issue then
Haha...Murphys Law...yup, soon as I started to pump fluid back in, pump breaks...ha
Rich
Wow, you are having a time with it!!!
Quote from: SHOdded on June 03, 2015, 02:48:10 PM
Wow, you are having a time with it!!!
As usual...lol
Pulled just over 12 ounces plus maybe 2 in mess. Got 15 back in before it started to ooze back out.
It's done, the hard way this time.
Rich
When is the next checkpoint for your SHO, Rich?
Quote from: SHOdded on June 03, 2015, 05:44:30 PM
When is the next checkpoint for your SHO, Rich?
This one was 17k, going 15k interval next.
The little whine I could hear when coming to a stop is gone, again.
Rich
Nice! BTW, where did you pick up the Amsoil from? Locally or online or ...
Quote from: SHOdded on June 03, 2015, 09:28:51 PM
Nice! BTW, where did you pick up the Amsoil from? Locally or online or ...
I was locally took to the cleaners at Romeo Auto parts. I post pic and get texts of discounts next time. At the arm & a leg price I paid, still worth it IMO.
Rich
Hear me out on this before you say no way, but have any of you tried using a flush solvent in the PTU, and put the vehicle in drive for a minute or two while on jack stands to help break up the sludge? And then remove the solvent/old fluid and replace with new fluid?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
I'm getting a blown up PTU from the local dealer to figure out about drilling a hole and tapping to put a drain plug in the damn thing. If I can do it and make it easy I will do a write up.
Quote from: Sabtaj1 on June 30, 2015, 01:59:47 AM
I'm getting a blown up PTU from the local dealer to figure out about drilling a hole and tapping to put a drain plug in the damn thing. If I can do it and make it easy I will do a write up.
It's already been done & a write up as well.
I'll post the link once I get home (unless someone beats me to it).
I have it saved in my favorites tab on the communal laptop on the kitchen island.
Sabtaj1, here's a how-to for the Ford Edge PTU by the_natrix:
http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/10914-ptu-leak-failures/page-2#entry89903 (http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/10914-ptu-leak-failures/page-2#entry89903)
Will be interested to see how a '13+ EB PTU differs from what is shown in this writeup. Will this be a PI (or SHO PP) type PTU, do you know? I thought they had a drain plug, just not easily accessible.
2015 PI PTU "walkaround" video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHdmzaRj10E#)
Quote from: Spenser281 on June 29, 2015, 11:18:41 PM
Hear me out on this before you say no way, but have any of you tried using a flush solvent in the PTU, and put the vehicle in drive for a minute or two while on jack stands to help break up the sludge? And then remove the solvent/old fluid and replace with new fluid?
It's best/safest to drain and fill multiple times at short intervals with new PTU fluid. But solvents like kerosene can be used as well. Or you could run ATF through it instead. All at your own risk, though. Since the PTU has so little capacity to begin with, you MUST remove any solvent or ATF very thoroughly so as not to change the properties of the PTU fluid that finally goes in.
Here's an article on how to flush differentials & gearboxes:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/864/flush-gearbox (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/864/flush-gearbox)
A guy has recently used a cleaning agent in the PTU, for the life of me I can't remember which member it was...if I do, I will check on his current thoughts.
Rich
Thanks to everyone for all the contributions to this thread. I will look into tackling this soon as well. Hopefully the ptu isn't why I'm having a burnt smell sometimes in cabin.
Great thread. I just dropped my MKS off for some service. 65k and the guy said the PTU and Trans should be fine but he would do the rear diff. So they are currently doing the diff, plugs, coolant and addressing a horrible noise on startup. They are currently suspecting timing chain guides or tensioner. After reading this I think I will do the PTU fluid change myself and get the trans done by a shop. They are also installing the H&R springs for me. I wasn't up for it.
Funny thing is I've always suspected the PTU in these is from the job I was hired by my current employer for. We built the assembly lines for this PTU. Wish I had known then I would have one today and kept some of the parts. Crazy part is that was in 2004/5 we did those assembly lines!
Today we are doing multiple cylinder head projects for Ford. We should be seeing some great power in about 2 years. ;)
I just did the PTU yesterday at 28k miles. The oil was darker than new, but looked fine. Same with the RDU. I simply didn't see the "sludge" I thought I would based in reading others' posts.
RDU was no trouble, but I was left thinking the PTU was not worth the pain ...
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Well I am compiling the stuff to tackle the PTU fluid change. Just trying to decide the best pump to buy.
I will have to use 4 jack stands in the garage so we will see how it goes.
Quote from: gtmorgan23 on September 22, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Well I am compiling the stuff to tackle the PTU fluid change. Just trying to decide the best pump to buy.
I will have to use 4 jack stands in the garage so we will see how it goes.
Mityvac is the way to go.
I started getting the natural gas smell in the cabin a couple of weeks ago. After a close inspection from under the car there is no leaking from the seals and it only looks like it puked out the vent cap. I pulled the plug and used my mityvac to no avail, there was nothing liquid left in the PTU, just thick grease. I put in 11 oz of syn 75/140 and plan and suction it out in a couple of weeks and refill. On my 2010 I only have the metal vent cap and I tried to pry off the cap and put on the 5/16 tubing to extend the vent but it pulled out of the case. How can I add tubing and run the vent up to the master cyl?
Quote from: RdGlideGuy on December 29, 2017, 06:25:24 PM
I started getting the natural gas smell in the cabin a couple of weeks ago. After a close inspection from under the car there is no leaking from the seals and it only looks like it puked out the vent cap. I pulled the plug and used my mityvac to no avail, there was nothing liquid left in the PTU, just thick grease. I put in 11 oz of syn 75/140 and plan and suction it out in a couple of weeks and refill. On my 2010 I only have the metal vent cap and I tried to pry off the cap and put on the 5/16 tubing to extend the vent but it pulled out of the case. How can I add tubing and run the vent up to the master cyl?
I wouldn't do that. Just because it's thick grease/sludge doesn't mean it's low. It's just caked all over the inside of the case is all. You added 11oz. and now it's possibly overfilled by almost double of what it holds which is 18oz. if I remember correctly. I had the same thing going on and did just as you did too. I just put it in reverse and backed up 40 yards or so and then pulled right back over my pit and sucked it out which you can finally do with some new lube in there. I didn't drive it around out of fear of blowing a seal out. I then repeated the process one more time. Then, the third time I added fresh stuff I drove it a couple of days and sucked out what I could and added fresh stuff again and repeated that two more times. I'm going to do it again next oil change. I figure by now it's got to be over 90% filled with new Amsoil. Next time around it should be almost all new lube.
Quote from: RdGlideGuy on December 29, 2017, 06:25:24 PM
I started getting the natural gas smell in the cabin a couple of weeks ago. After a close inspection from under the car there is no leaking from the seals and it only looks like it puked out the vent cap. I pulled the plug and used my mityvac to no avail, there was nothing liquid left in the PTU, just thick grease. I put in 11 oz of syn 75/140 and plan and suction it out in a couple of weeks and refill. On my 2010 I only have the metal vent cap and I tried to pry off the cap and put on the 5/16 tubing to extend the vent but it pulled out of the case. How can I add tubing and run the vent up to the master cyl?
If youre going to pull the old metal vent cap, you might as well install Fords updated vent kit (or DIY by getting cap / tubing).
PN: AG1Z-7034-A
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6849.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6849.0.html)
After I installed that new vent cap, I went through 3-4 quick change intervals using the fill plug on the side of the PTU. Its been over a year now with no issues at all. I did change the fluid again @ the 1 year mark and the fluid was black, but nothing like the sludgy stuff that came out of it the first few flushes.
I tried pulling the stock vent cap off but the whole thing pulled out of the case and I couldn't pry the cap of the nipple. It was pretty gummed up so I used brake cleaner and flushed it well and dried it and put it back in for now.
yeah, the whole thing came out of the case when I removed mine as well. The new vent kit came with a new "nipple" for the case.
You have to add a cleaner of some sort to get the sludge out. Marvel Mystery oil worked great for me, flushed out a bunch of metal that I assume was stuck in sludge around the case.
This PTU thing has bothered me for such a long time. The fact that it's non serviceable but yet its serviced all the time. Knowing that at some point it will go kaboom is just not cool in my book
The average joe who purchases a vehicle with one of these in it (especially used or out of warranty) will have a really bad day at some point. This is not an obvious thing to look for, especially if the owner takes the time to service an awd system that even a dealer would say is not serviceable. Your car is ready for the snow mrs. Johnson...have a fun time with your kids on vacation...
Has Ford changed there minds on making this a priority service option for those with a PTU? If they haven't, that just makes me even more mad at Ford. I guess its still true that the money is made on selling parts, rather than the vehicle itself.
Quote from: griggs95 on December 30, 2017, 09:01:37 PM
This PTU thing has bothered me for such a long time. The fact that it's non serviceable but yet its serviced all the time. Knowing that at some point it will go kaboom is just not cool in my book
The average joe who purchases a vehicle with one of these in it (especially used or out of warranty) will have a really bad day at some point. This is not an obvious thing to look for, especially if the owner takes the time to service an awd system that even a dealer would say is not serviceable. Your car is ready for the snow mrs. Johnson...have a fun time with your kids on vacation...
Has Ford changed there minds on making this a priority service option for those with a PTU? If they haven't, that just makes me even more mad at Ford. I guess its still true that the money is made on selling parts, rather than the vehicle itself.
Almost every vehicle has a weak point and this is one of ours. I wonder how much trouble they would give if you changed the oil in them every oil change since the day it was new? The garbage I pumped out of mine at 42,000 miles makes me believe it's already half way shot. I think the cat being where it is has a lot to do with it. Even more so in hot climates and stop and go driving. Have failures in hot southern climates been more of an occurrence than with us yankees?
Quote from: SilvererSHO on December 30, 2017, 10:06:44 PM
Quote from: griggs95 on December 30, 2017, 09:01:37 PM
This PTU thing has bothered me for such a long time. The fact that it's non serviceable but yet its serviced all the time. Knowing that at some point it will go kaboom is just not cool in my book
The average joe who purchases a vehicle with one of these in it (especially used or out of warranty) will have a really bad day at some point. This is not an obvious thing to look for, especially if the owner takes the time to service an awd system that even a dealer would say is not serviceable. Your car is ready for the snow mrs. Johnson...have a fun time with your kids on vacation...
Has Ford changed there minds on making this a priority service option for those with a PTU? If they haven't, that just makes me even more mad at Ford. I guess its still true that the money is made on selling parts, rather than the vehicle itself.
Almost every vehicle has a weak point and this is one of ours. I wonder how much trouble they would give if you changed the oil in them every oil change since the day it was new? The garbage I pumped out of mine at 42,000 miles makes me believe it's already half way shot. I think the cat being where it is has a lot to do with it. Even more so in hot climates and stop and go driving. Have failures in hot southern climates been more of an occurrence than with us yankees?
Agree totally that every vehicle has a weak point, and most have more than a few. I love this car still to this day but my point was Ford knew this part would need service and if it didn't, you'd be find out the hard way somewhere along your journey. Most likely it would be the average mom/dad that is not an enthusiast like us here.
Even the person that takes the car to the dealer and changes oil severely and makes every possible safety precaution wouldn't know to change this fluid because the dealer wouldn't say to do so. That is my beef with the PTU.
Sorry, just atmospheric venting; not meaning to hijack the thread but, like you said, every car has a weak point.
YOUTUBE...DIRTYHARRY 70585
CUT THE BREATHER TUBE TOP OFF AND ADD 5/16 NIPPLE AND EXTEND TUBE AS A FILL HOSE!
USE A PUMP TO SUCK OUT THE OLD OIL VIA 3/8' NUT PLUG.
I let my dealer do the change, since Motorcraft Synthetic gets high marks and with my dealer being a BG dealer they also do a cleaning of the PTU with every change. It is a little expensive but worth it to know the fluid is new and the PTU is clean.
Bringing up to live :)
2014 SHO, 25K miles on the dot.
Yesterday came home, very strong, Im talking propane tank blew up on your backyard strong smell came out of the car, my wife thought something with the house, I almost called gas people over, in 5 min smell went away and I noticed its coming form the car, great...
Started reading and came to many posts about PTU, thank you all for all the info I got from this forum
So not to waist anyone time, I got to work, car in the garage, on the jacks, I'm under, my car has one one upper plug, getting to it was a B, capitol B...
Anyway, did my best, sucked out about 12oz of very dark and very, VERY stinky mess, it was liquid but very smelly.
Put in about 14OZ of Motorcraft 75/140
Drove around today, smell still there, here and there, very mild but there, I think all that left over oil that is still in the case giving out some aroma, I am planing to go in again this week and changing it again,
now, what I really wish to do is to drill and tap drain hole on the bottom for complete swap,
I keep seeing reference on the forum for this kind of job, but every time I click on link its ether expired or very bad DYI, anyone has one had I can use, just hate drilling it in the wrong spot :)
or picture would be nice of the plug location if you have one done.
Thank you all once again!!!
Just as a warning, if it was puking there may be damage to the strength of the gears. Obviously swap the fluid as best as possible.. but I'd be cautious of drag racing or hard driving .. did u save the fluid that came out? If so analyzing might save some peace of mind concerning it breaking down on a road trip..
Phone post.. sorry for gramnar
I did saved the fluid, its in water bottle in garage as a reminder :)
I will consider sending it out.
Thank you for the reply
irondoor19's how to thread on ptu drain plug install
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8005.msg121438.html#msg121438 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8005.msg121438.html#msg121438)
Solid instruction, that what I was looking for.
Smell, still bugs the heck out of me, from all of a sudden, nothing to just explosion of the smell, I understand if it was building up, little stronger overtime, but from nothing to all that, wow, crazy stuff, maybe it's a good thing, kind of warning sign, if it wasn't for that I could of been few months too late, I was planing to change at 30K.
Oil still looked "OK" still runny and all, black but runny, anyway interesting how some people never get smell until there is no oil left and other like me get it
Anyway, I did few strong pulls today, ran it kind of hard, no issue, rolls nice, no noises, everything works, great,
Fingers crossed hoping for best.
Quote from: SuperPete on October 20, 2019, 10:31:40 PM
Solid instruction, that what I was looking for.
Smell, still bugs the heck out of me, from all of a sudden, nothing to just explosion of the smell, I understand if it was building up, little stronger overtime, but from nothing to all that, wow, crazy stuff, maybe it's a good thing, kind of warning sign, if it wasn't for that I could of been few months too late, I was planing to change at 30K.
Oil still looked "OK" still runny and all, black but runny, anyway interesting how some people never get smell until there is no oil left and other like me get it
Anyway, I did few strong pulls today, ran it kind of hard, no issue, rolls nice, no noises, everything works, great,
Fingers crossed hoping for best.
Personally I would go ahead and tap your PTU with a drain plug like you mentioned. Drain that fluid, and then put in some Redline Lightweight Shockproof Fluid. Your PTU will like you even more, and you will see a significant difference in feel while you drive.
I have 18oz of Motorcraft fluid left, today I am sucking current stuff out and dumping that in today for another "flash process" and after about a week I will drill, tap and put good stuff in it.
Thank you all
Quick update.
I did another oil change on PTU today,
This time I was able to suck out little more 14oz VS 12oz last time, trick is to get very flexible thin hose, try to find silicone one that feels very soft and flexy so it drops straight down once you put it in the hole.
This time oil was allot less stinky but still had some odor from leftovers of last time and this time my hand was covered in silver "glitter" nothing large, very fine shavings, I know I know it can be bad thing but you know what, I was laying under the car and thinking to myself, I will not let this PTU ruin my fun, it is what it is, if it fails, I'll replace and move on...
I will drive it like I stole it and have fun with car and what ever comes my way I will deal with, it's not end of the world at $1500...
Anyway, happy with oil change, hoping to do it once again in a month by drilling drain plug.
Car drives great,
Hope this writeup helps other people who is dealing with same issues.
P.S. To drill drain plug you have to remove downpipes to get to the bottom of the PTU with drill, I figured why not get PPE downpipes and upgrade as well :)
Sounds like a plan...
Quote from: SuperPete on October 22, 2019, 07:25:40 AM
Quick update.
I did another oil change on PTU today,
This time I was able to suck out little more 14oz VS 12oz last time, trick is to get very flexible thin hose, try to find silicone one that feels very soft and flexy so it drops straight down once you put it in the hole.
This time oil was allot less stinky but still had some odor from leftovers of last time and this time my hand was covered in silver "glitter" nothing large, very fine shavings, I know I know it can be bad thing but you know what, I was laying under the car and thinking to myself, I will not let this PTU ruin my fun, it is what it is, if it fails, I'll replace and move on...
I will drive it like I stole it and have fun with car and what ever comes my way I will deal with, it's not end of the world at $1500...
Anyway, happy with oil change, hoping to do it once again in a month by drilling drain plug.
Car drives great,
Hope this writeup helps other people who is dealing with same issues.
P.S. To drill drain plug you have to remove downpipes to get to the bottom of the PTU with drill, I figured why not get PPE downpipes and upgrade as well :)
Sounds like a plan...
Just make sure when you drill it go slow and use a generous amount of grease to catch the shavings. esp towards the end.
10-4!
Today is a GOOD Day! I finally figured out source of my smell,
I was looking inside and I noticed that vent hose came off of the PTU vent hole.
SO I pulled that off, the vent cap has filters that are completely clogged up with oil and absolutely not passing air in or out.
SO I guess all the exhaust out of PTU was spitting out some oil on the PTU it self and smelling .
I remove filters out, plugged hose back and I believe that will solver the issue, will update after test drive today-tomorrow.
ONE MONTH LATER EDIT: My PTU just crapped out, LOL, HAHA: https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,10231.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,10231.0.html)