How many of you are running e85 on your SHO or MKS?? If so what did you have to do to run it? And was it worth it??
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It's always better to add less than more IMO! just to be on the safe side!
I would speak with your Tuner before adding E85 to the mix as you will need a tune to benefit from the custom E-blend!
I'm hoping others will chime in! Z :)
http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php (http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php)
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8211.0.html (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,8211.0.html)
Yea for sure! I'm sure he will know but wanted to get some info so I'm a little informed when talking to him lol.
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Quote from: arrivalblue on February 19, 2018, 10:13:24 AM
Yea for sure! I'm sure he will know but wanted to get some info so I'm a little informed when talking to him lol.
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Who's your tuner ? Due setup your signature so we can assist you better! Thanks . Z
I just ordered it last week. I'll be using Torrie from unleashed. I like the ability to data log. I'll update signature but so far it'll be a thermostat, new plugs, drop in filter, and 3 bar sensor. I'm looking into other stuff though including the mdesign CAI the numbers seem very good and dyno backed
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I was wondering this as well... Seeing as on my gas fill it reads 🚫e30 e85. I thought flex fuel had different orings, seals etc...
Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on February 19, 2018, 10:46:45 AM
I was wondering this as well... Seeing as on my gas fill it reads 🚫e30 e85. I thought flex fuel had different orings, seals etc...
Having the hardware or and the logic in the calibration to be flex fuel capable are 2 different things...Most of the new Fords have the hardware to run higher ethanol content. The reason your filler neck says to use only E0-E15 is mostly due to the fact that the logic is not there to handle fuel switching AND the capacity is not really there...You can run E85 but there will be a boost compromise......As Ethanol content goes up then boost needs to come down.
Quote from: arrivalblue on February 19, 2018, 10:21:44 AM
I just ordered it last week. I'll be using Torrie from unleashed. I like the ability to data log. I'll update signature but so far it'll be a thermostat, new plugs, drop in filter, and 3 bar sensor. I'm looking into other stuff though including the mdesign CAI the numbers seem very good and dyno backed
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I would make certain that you purchase a new MDesign intake Directly through them and NOT used as the warranty is NOT Transferable IIRC! Z
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 19, 2018, 11:59:55 AM
Having the hardware or and the logic in the calibration to be flex fuel capable are 2 different things...Most of the new Fords have the hardware to run higher ethanol content. The reason your filler neck says to use only E0-E15 is mostly due to the fact that the logic is not there to handle fuel switching AND the capacity is not really there...You can run E85 but there will be a boost compromise......As Ethanol content goes up then boost needs to come down.
Ok. That's what I was wondering. Most hardware is in place so basically just need the custom tune for it.
Quote from: StinkinLinkin13 on February 19, 2018, 02:26:40 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 19, 2018, 11:59:55 AM
Having the hardware or and the logic in the calibration to be flex fuel capable are 2 different things...Most of the new Fords have the hardware to run higher ethanol content. The reason your filler neck says to use only E0-E15 is mostly due to the fact that the logic is not there to handle fuel switching AND the capacity is not really there...You can run E85 but there will be a boost compromise......As Ethanol content goes up then boost needs to come down.
Ok. That's what I was wondering. Most hardware is in place so basically just need the custom tune for it.
Yes the tune obviously but even with that it doesn't mean that full E85 is possible with out limitations.
By limitations though would it not be worth it without fuel system upgrades? I mean would a limited E85 tune be better then a 93?octane tune?
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Quote from: arrivalblue on February 19, 2018, 02:49:42 PM
By limitations though would it not be worth it without fuel system upgrades? I mean would a limited E85 tune be better then a 93?octane tune?
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As a rough guide I would say E30-E50 about 14-15 psi
E85 for 10-12 psi
Tough to say about the power
Lower boost less power though right? or not always?
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Quote from: arrivalblue on February 19, 2018, 02:56:45 PM
Lower boost less power though right? or not always?
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Not necessarily.
You can run a bunch more spark advance.
See sig below.
Just an informative question for us all.
Long term engine life. What is better ? Does it matter ?
Lower Boost and More spark using higher Corn content then you get more fuels in your oil? etc.
Higher Boost and less spark using less corn in your fuel etc.
Quote from: Macgyver on February 19, 2018, 04:04:17 PM
Just an informative question for us all.
Long term engine life. What is better ? Does it matter ?
Lower Boost and More spark using higher Corn content then you get more fuels in your oil? etc.
Higher Boost and less spark using less corn in your fuel etc.
So many variables....
The safer way of making power? Not sure but I do know I keep my turbos in their happy place, just a couple PSI over stock and the both cars haul a$$. 15 PSI available anywhere anytime with 26-28 degrees just feels sick. No more running out of breath at high RPM, just pulls endlessly well into felony territory. Car doesn't pull timing in the summer because IAT compensations come on line much later (140 IAT2) and probably can be turned off completely with the full corn.
More advance equals higher volumetric efficiency and E85's ability to run at Lambda 1 to higher RPMs and loads increase that further, more bang for less bucks at the pump.
I think corn is a better fuel for the Ecoboost not just for performance but it is markedly cleaner than pump. No sooty tips. I suspect that property may help longevity greatly. I just got pics of my valves and I'm curious to see what happens moving forward. Too bad For Ford cheaped out on the certification and pump. My plan is to use as much corn as possible.
I just changed oil at at 10K interval with 5k of full corn....Oops?
Faint hint of fuel, no change on the stick, and nothing out of the ordinary visually.
Going forward I plan to change every 5K and get some samples analyzed.
Thinking about full E85 and meth after ESP runs out.
Quote from: Macgyver on February 19, 2018, 04:04:17 PM
Just an informative question for us all.
Long term engine life. What is better ? Does it matter ?
Lower Boost and More spark using higher Corn content then you get more fuels in your oil? etc.
Higher Boost and less spark using less corn in your fuel etc.
I think people forget what's going on to make power...I don't really think it's an either or proposition. You want to create the max cylinder pressure at the lowest boost that the fuel will allow...If you are not using the highest spark the fuel will allow then you are wasting the fuel's capabilities....If you are raising boost and lowering spark to achieve the same cylinder pressure as lowering boost and raising spark then you've done nothing to change the forces on the piston and rods. So for an engine safety standpoint they are essentially the same thing.
If your fuel can tolerate more spark then that is free power...So you always want the most spark at the lowest boost to make the turbos run slower which is good and fuel pumps are less stressed which is good too.
Now even if cylinder pressure is the same for 2 scenarios, let's say 15 psi and 10 degrees spark and 12 psi and 15 degrees spark, the higher boost will likely make more HP because the mass airflow is greater.
So Torque may likely be the same because the cylinder pressure is the same but HP would be higher on the higher boost because higher boost almost always equates to more mass airflow.
SO people ask me all the time which is better and I say highest boost and highest spark
LOLOL Thanks I think. Haha.
I was in the thinking that more boost would raise the cylinder pressure more than the Spark would.
It was a question for me but I am sure others will benefit.
My new question is then:
Is cylinder pressure equated to torque and too much torque can break things more so than HP?
I am coming from my first Turbo Car. I still have it. The 2014 Nissan Juke RS. It has many things in common with the SHO. But a lot that it doesnt. One thing that it doesnt is the weight. 2950 pounds with 285whp. LOL
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 20, 2018, 02:38:54 AM
Quote from: Macgyver on February 19, 2018, 04:04:17 PM
Just an informative question for us all.
Long term engine life. What is better ? Does it matter ?
Lower Boost and More spark using higher Corn content then you get more fuels in your oil? etc.
Higher Boost and less spark using less corn in your fuel etc.
So many variables....
The safer way of making power? Not sure but I do know I keep my turbos in their happy place, just a couple PSI over stock and the both cars haul a$$. 15 PSI available anywhere anytime with 26-28 degrees just feels sick. No more running out of breath at high RPM, just pulls endlessly well into felony territory. Car doesn't pull timing in the summer because IAT compensations come on line much later (140 IAT2) and probably can be turned off completely with the full corn.
More advance equals higher volumetric efficiency and E85's ability to run at Lambda 1 to higher RPMs and loads increase that further, more bang for less bucks at the pump.
I think corn is a better fuel for the Ecoboost not just for performance but it is markedly cleaner than pump. No sooty tips. I suspect that property may help longevity greatly. I just got pics of my valves and I'm curious to see what happens moving forward. Too bad For Ford cheaped out on the certification and pump. My plan is to use as much corn as possible.
I just changed oil at at 10K interval with 5k of full corn....Oops?
Faint hint of fuel, no change on the stick, and nothing out of the ordinary visually.
Going forward I plan to change every 5K and get some samples analyzed.
Thinking about full E85 and meth after ESP runs out.
Is there a DMR to measure the temperature in the cylinder? Or have you measured EGTs? I am curious at 1 lambda under wot what the temps are? Part of the reason to running rich at load is to help keep things cool as the extra fuel carries away some the heat out of chamber... helping keep the pistons cooler...
I know that Ethanol helps cool things just by virtual of being alcohol... not sure where the offset is?
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 13, 2018, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 20, 2018, 02:38:54 AM
Quote from: Macgyver on February 19, 2018, 04:04:17 PM
Just an informative question for us all.
Long term engine life. What is better ? Does it matter ?
Lower Boost and More spark using higher Corn content then you get more fuels in your oil? etc.
Higher Boost and less spark using less corn in your fuel etc.
So many variables....
The safer way of making power? Not sure but I do know I keep my turbos in their happy place, just a couple PSI over stock and the both cars haul a$$. 15 PSI available anywhere anytime with 26-28 degrees just feels sick. No more running out of breath at high RPM, just pulls endlessly well into felony territory. Car doesn't pull timing in the summer because IAT compensations come on line much later (140 IAT2) and probably can be turned off completely with the full corn.
More advance equals higher volumetric efficiency and E85's ability to run at Lambda 1 to higher RPMs and loads increase that further, more bang for less bucks at the pump.
I think corn is a better fuel for the Ecoboost not just for performance but it is markedly cleaner than pump. No sooty tips. I suspect that property may help longevity greatly. I just got pics of my valves and I'm curious to see what happens moving forward. Too bad For Ford cheaped out on the certification and pump. My plan is to use as much corn as possible.
I just changed oil at at 10K interval with 5k of full corn....Oops?
Faint hint of fuel, no change on the stick, and nothing out of the ordinary visually.
Going forward I plan to change every 5K and get some samples analyzed.
Thinking about full E85 and meth after ESP runs out.
Is there a DMR to measure the temperature in the cylinder? Or have you measured EGTs? I am curious at 1 lambda under wot what the temps are? Part of the reason to running rich at load is to help keep things cool as the extra fuel carries away some the heat out of chamber... helping keep the pistons cooler...
I know that Ethanol helps cool things just by virtual of being alcohol... not sure where the offset is?
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No but there are DMR's sometime that are inferred temps for the valves, exhaust flange and cats. Even when using stock temp limits for temp control done by fueling not being invoked. But you are correct that EGT's can be controlled with fuel.
But if you look at a stock tune in most ecoboosts, Ford doesn't even call for fuel enrichment or so called open loop until 90% pedal...SO you can make really high boost and still run 1.0 lambda
And on the stock tunes that have E85 tables even when you go WOT and command fuel enrichment the commanded Lambda will be between 1.00-.90 until 4000rpm then fatten up after that...And the tunes that have flex fuel capabilities there are modifiers that as the inferred alcohol content go up from using E85 blends the desired Lambda at WOT will have a leaner mix.
Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 13, 2018, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 20, 2018, 02:38:54 AM
Quote from: Macgyver on February 19, 2018, 04:04:17 PM
Just an informative question for us all.
Long term engine life. What is better ? Does it matter ?
Lower Boost and More spark using higher Corn content then you get more fuels in your oil? etc.
Higher Boost and less spark using less corn in your fuel etc.
So many variables....
The safer way of making power? Not sure but I do know I keep my turbos in their happy place, just a couple PSI over stock and the both cars haul a$$. 15 PSI available anywhere anytime with 26-28 degrees just feels sick. No more running out of breath at high RPM, just pulls endlessly well into felony territory. Car doesn't pull timing in the summer because IAT compensations come on line much later (140 IAT2) and probably can be turned off completely with the full corn.
More advance equals higher volumetric efficiency and E85's ability to run at Lambda 1 to higher RPMs and loads increase that further, more bang for less bucks at the pump.
I think corn is a better fuel for the Ecoboost not just for performance but it is markedly cleaner than pump. No sooty tips. I suspect that property may help longevity greatly. I just got pics of my valves and I'm curious to see what happens moving forward. Too bad For Ford cheaped out on the certification and pump. My plan is to use as much corn as possible.
I just changed oil at at 10K interval with 5k of full corn....Oops?
Faint hint of fuel, no change on the stick, and nothing out of the ordinary visually.
Going forward I plan to change every 5K and get some samples analyzed.
Thinking about full E85 and meth after ESP runs out.
Is there a DMR to measure the temperature in the cylinder? Or have you measured EGTs? I am curious at 1 lambda under wot what the temps are? Part of the reason to running rich at load is to help keep things cool as the extra fuel carries away some the heat out of chamber... helping keep the pistons cooler...
I know that Ethanol helps cool things just by virtual of being alcohol... not sure where the offset is?
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I watch cat temps and CHT, the rest seems to be inferred from that number (probably some other things as well). If anything unseemly happens you have limiters in play (unless your tuner disabled them, 1700 IIRC) which will automagically enrich when the max temps are breached.
Spark can have a huge impact on cat temps and we've made spark adjustments that brought cat temps down substantially w/o touching fueling. If things aren't moving fast enough, heat will build. So in this application spark isn't just for making more power. So even though cylinder combustion temps are 200 degreeish colder with full corn, too retarded timing can make temps skyrocket.
I've also seen an article where high ethanol content and overly rich air fuel ratios cause over cooling of the cylinder and when it's over cooled there will be less evaporation which leads to wall wetting which will lead to increased emissions
The way it reads is that DI with ethanol acts much differently than ethanol used port injection motors
It's almost as if DI and ethanol blends were made for eachother lol