Ecoboost Performance Forum

Hey all,

As some may know, I am in the process of fabbing a way to do the AJPTurbo boost regulator mod onto my EPP charge pipes. To my knowledge this has yet to be done.

I will not have this complete until sometime in January but wanted to share current progress.

I ordered a TiAL MV-S wastegate for the wastegate. Per the specs, the inlet Vband should be welded to 1.75" OD pipe... this is where the issue occurs...  the Vband is stainless steel and must be welded to stainless steel, the hotpipes are aluminum... what to do?

To correct this, we need a way to connect aluminum and steel. This is where I struggled, I started by thinking of just using radiator hose as many have done on stock pipes, but was not feeling it. Then though of getting matched vbands , one set in stainless steel and one in aluminum to mate the pipe, again this seemed like it may not work, and would cost atleast $60 to test.

Cue the third idea... small section of stainless pipe, welded to the wastegate Vband, pre-bent aluminum pipe welded to the charge pipes, and a silicon hump connector with tbolt clamps to secure the pipes!

Today I did some prefab work, as I finally have all the parts (I can share the info on the parts later, with links, if requested).

Parts list:
60 degree bend aluminum pipe, 1.75" OD
70 degree bend aluminum pipe, 1.75" OD -- http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175 (http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175)
1.75" OD stainless steel 'joiner' pipe -- http://www.siliconeintakes.com/turbo-piping/intercooler-pipe-fabrication-p-131.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/turbo-piping/intercooler-pipe-fabrication-p-131.html)
Hump connector and t-bolts -- http://www.siliconeintakes.com/hump-hose/turbo-coupler-p-428.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/hump-hose/turbo-coupler-p-428.html) and 2x http://www.siliconeintakes.com/t-bolt-clamp/compressor-tbolt-p-107.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/t-bolt-clamp/compressor-tbolt-p-107.html)
Vband for the TiAL (supplied with wastegate) --https://www.importimageracing.com/tial-mvs-38mm-v-band-external-wastegate-universal.html#header-search -- they offer a 5% off code many times, as well as free shipping with the code, best price I found on a new in box TiAL

I have attached some mock up photos. I will need to shorten the aluminum pipe, and weld one side to the charge piping. On the other I will need to either weld back the section with the bead roll, or bead roll at the cut. For the stainless joiner I will simply put one end in the clamp. Yeah other end will be cut and welded to the Vband.

The hump connector is rigid enough that everything should be supported with ease, but will allow for slight movement with the engine as well as slight misalignment of the pipes.

Pics attached. Comments and suggestions welcome. I will update once more progress is made.


Other parts: I bought 10 ft of 6mm vacuum hose, http://www.siliconeintakes.com/liquid-air-adapter/aftermarket-boost-vacuum-hose-p-305.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/liquid-air-adapter/aftermarket-boost-vacuum-hose-p-305.html)

parts similar to the ones I am using for vacuum routing:

1x Brass pipe coupler : https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-56122-Fitting-Nipple/dp/B003NXYB5Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164870&sr=1-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-56122-Fitting-Nipple/dp/B003NXYB5Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164870&sr=1-1)

1x 1/8"hose x 1/4" NPT hose barb (for the boost gauge) : https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-57001-Fitting-Adapter/dp/B0058I180U/ref=zg_bs_6001529011_7?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=CBMSFF1ZKQ3B9SH6VD4Z&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-57001-Fitting-Adapter/dp/B0058I180U/ref=zg_bs_6001529011_7?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=CBMSFF1ZKQ3B9SH6VD4Z&th=1)

1x 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/4" 'T' to tap into the break booster line: https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-Fitting-Barstock-Female/dp/B00GVLGULA/ref=sr_1_15?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164870&sr=1-15 (https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-Fitting-Barstock-Female/dp/B00GVLGULA/ref=sr_1_15?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164870&sr=1-15)

1x 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/4" cross: https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-Fitting-Barstock-Female/dp/B00D3CTW56/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164894&sr=1-1&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A3052057011 (https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-Fitting-Barstock-Female/dp/B00D3CTW56/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164894&sr=1-1&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A3052057011)

2x 1/4"hose x 1/4" NPT hose barb (for line to BOV and wastegate): https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-57001-Fitting-Adapter/dp/B002SAO7XQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482165158&sr=1-3&keywords=1%2F4%22hose+x+1%2F4%22+NPT (https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-57001-Fitting-Adapter/dp/B002SAO7XQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482165158&sr=1-3&keywords=1%2F4%22hose+x+1%2F4%22+NPT)

2x 3/8 "hose x 1/4" NPT hose barb (for break booster line): https://www.amazon.com/Moeller-Brass-Fuel-Line-Threads/dp/B000MTCRDC (https://www.amazon.com/Moeller-Brass-Fuel-Line-Threads/dp/B000MTCRDC)


Thread seal tape: http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-in-x-520-in-Thread-Seal-Tape-31273/202206819 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-in-x-520-in-Thread-Seal-Tape-31273/202206819)

4x Hose clamps for the 6mm tubing, to secure on the barbs

2x Hose clamps for the brake booster line to secure on the barbs

1x Hose clamp for boost gauge line to the cross barb (I left it unclamped on the gauge, and have seen no issue)

To be honest, with barbed connections, the clamps can probably be skipped as a whole, but I feel better using them, just in case.

Original AJP Boost Regulator Mod: http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=6526.0 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=6526.0)

Looking forward to progress reports :)

What about getting an aluminum vband flange? You could then have an aluminum elbow welded on and eliminate the hose joint.

I found these doing a quick search, so it seems they're out there: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/aluminum-pipes/custom-aluminum-v-band-intake-flange-p-261.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/aluminum-pipes/custom-aluminum-v-band-intake-flange-p-261.html)

You might be able to buy one individually to save over the cost of the kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice to see innovation and ingenuity at work.

Revitalizes the platform for us "older" members, and continues fostering the "noobs" coming on board.

Applause for the efforts therein.

Commendable for sure! Continued successes!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I would of used jbweld epoxy then painted over but this sounds good also.

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 17, 2016, 10:41:04 PM
What about getting an aluminum vband flange? You could then have an aluminum elbow welded on and eliminate the hose joint.

I found these doing a quick search, so it seems they're out there: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/aluminum-pipes/custom-aluminum-v-band-intake-flange-p-261.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/aluminum-pipes/custom-aluminum-v-band-intake-flange-p-261.html)

You might be able to buy one individually to save over the cost of the kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was considered, but I would have to find a matching flange in Stainless Steel to mate up to it, since the aluminum pipe will only accept an alumuminum flange, and stainless will only accept a stainless flange. I found two that MAY work from this company : https://www.pacificp.com/ (https://www.pacificp.com/)

But at 70 just for two flange kits (had to buy male, female, and the clamp) I decided to go slightly cheaper with the hump hose and t-bolts (10 bucks vs. 70). The hump hose from silicon intakes is pretty dang stout, so should be fine to hold everything together.

Another issue with the V-bands is there are exhaust side (hot side) clamps, that are meant to expand to seal, and aluminum O-ring clamps meant for BOV/cold side work due to lower heat, since this application will see boost, I would have prefered an O-ring style (though the TiAL does not have them, and they would be more just for me) but that can complicate the V-band aluminum to stainless even more!

Quote from: bpd1151 on December 17, 2016, 11:12:03 PM
Nice to see innovation and ingenuity at work.

Revitalizes the platform for us "older" members, and continues fostering the "noobs" coming on board.

Applause for the efforts therein.

Commendable for sure! Continued successes!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Thanks BPD1151, means a lot coming from a vet like you.

Quote from: Gjkrisa on December 17, 2016, 11:42:26 PM
I would of used jbweld epoxy then painted over but this sounds good also.

I have never been a fan of JBweld, or products of that type. I tend to prefer good clean welds and actual fasteners when possible. I will be painting everything in high gloss black engine enamel once I am done with the fab work, or may even spring to get them powdercoated locally. I bought uncoated because of the fab that needs to be done, as the coating would only make it more tedious to prep for welding.

Its actuall pretty cool seeing the variations and spin offs from the way i did mine...i like seeing the evolution happen. Mine wasnt as clean and didnt look oem but i was happy with the results and it worked as intended ....way to go derf and miwau and steal blue

Hmm, I see what you're saying, I think.

Personally, I used the "hot side" clamp that came with my Tial. I don't think I'm seeing any leaks since my wastegate duty cycle seems to be where it was pre-mod (until we cranked the boost. :)

I guess I was thinking you could weld the aluminum flange on your elbow and directly connect the gate to it. I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm not sure of the long term effects of mating T6061 to 304.

EDIT: I wonder if a thin layer of powder coat on the aluminum elbow/flange (as an insulator) would prevent galvanic corrosion and allow you to connect directly to the wastegate. It would also make your hot pipes pretty after welding. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 18, 2016, 11:18:07 AM
Its actuall pretty cool seeing the variations and spin offs from the way i did mine...i like seeing the evolution happen. Mine wasnt as clean and didnt look oem but i was happy with the results and it worked as intended ....way to go derf and miwau and steal blue

I'm just waiting for the letter in the mail form AJP Turbo's attorneys for patent infringement. ;)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I will say, I really liked having the option to switch between tunes that required the TiAL WG and those that didn't. So whichever way you go, it might be worth while looking into an easy way to block the hole on the pipe. For me, it was a simple vacuum line switch along with putting the noise maker back on. Took 5 minutes to swap things around.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 18, 2016, 11:20:32 AM
Hmm, I see what you're saying, I think.

Personally, I used the "hot side" clamp that came with my Tial. I don't think I'm seeing any leaks since my wastegate duty cycle seems to be where it was pre-mod (until we cranked the boost. :)

I guess I was thinking you could weld the aluminum flange on your elbow and directly connect the gate to it. I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm not sure of the long term effects of mating T6061 to 304.

EDIT: I wonder if a thin layer of powder coat on the aluminum elbow/flange (as an insulator) would prevent galvanic corrosion and allow you to connect directly to the wastegate. It would also make your hot pipes pretty after welding. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ahh, i thought you were talking the stainless section to aluminum section. As far as an actual V-band to just have an aluminum piece to the waste gate, TiAL said they did not have one (they don't make them as they don't typically see a wastegate in this type of application). They use a mostly standard V-band, with slight variation, to accomidate the proprietary TiAL clamps. This means to do what you are talking, I would have to have a shop custom machine an aluminum flange. While it should work fine, it would also be pretty costly. The other advantage to doing it this way, is that if I decide I do not want to run the boost regulator mod for some reason, I can remove the section with the wastegate, and put a capped section in place, without having to cut and weld anything. That would also be possible with the V-band, but this way, I only have to go to a shop for final welding (and technically I am taking it to a friend at his job, so he can weld it when he gets the chance, and I can just pay him with a case of beer rather than paying actual cost of welding. I will weld the stainless myself with my dads welder, but he doesn't have a spool gun to do the aluminum welding.

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 18, 2016, 08:07:47 PM
I will say, I really liked having the option to switch between tunes that required the TiAL WG and those that didn't. So whichever way you go, it might be worth while looking into an easy way to block the hole on the pipe. For me, it was a simple vacuum line switch along with putting the noise maker back on. Took 5 minutes to swap things around.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

That was part of my reason for going with the hump hose, and doing it this way, if I decide I want to run a tune that does not need/use the mod, I can add a small section of capped pipe in its place.

I am going to run vacuum for the wastegate, my BOV, and the boost gauge, off of the current location of my boost gauge (brake booster line). I have a 'T' in place currently that goes to the boost gauge. I am going to remove the 1/4 x 1/8 rigged nipple, and replace it with a 1/4 x 1/4 coupler, into an 'X', then run a separate line from the 'X' for each of the three accessories. If I remove the wastegate for any reason, I can simply unbolt the nipple on the 'X' and put in a cap.

Though, if this goes anything like my mustang has, or my current use of the SHO, I will leave it on the tune that is the latest rev, because I like getting the most out of it whenever I tap the go pedal!

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 18, 2016, 11:18:07 AM
Its actuall pretty cool seeing the variations and spin offs from the way i did mine...i like seeing the evolution happen. Mine wasnt as clean and didnt look oem but i was happy with the results and it worked as intended ....way to go derf and miwau and steal blue

Would't be possible at all without the great log warlock, so thank you! And thank you for the support to all my random questions via email prior to set up. Thanks to StealBlue for answering my questions when I picked his brain as well. I'm honestly hoping that Mike may see this at some point, and re-consider adding this as an option to the charge pipes, to begin with, however, I also don't want that to happen so mine can be somewhat one-off.

I'm looking into options for an aluminum flange. If I can't find anyone that makes them, I used to work at a machine shop that I could probably get some made for a reasonable price.

Quote from: BOT_ROCKET on December 18, 2016, 11:51:13 PM
I'm looking into options for an aluminum flange. If I can't find anyone that makes them, I used to work at a machine shop that I could probably get some made for a reasonable price.

Well now ya tell us...

The only real info TiAL gave me was that their flanges are a "standard 20 degree pitch" but they said only their flanges work with their clamps...

The guys at PPE claimed their flanges are relatively standard and they thought they could work, but the issue with theirs (which were pretty much the only V-band I could find for the pipe size, is that they are O-ring clamps, and the actual TiAL seat is not set up for an O-ring type seal, which creates another issue. I did a lot of research trying to find an off the shelf clamp that would work before going with the silicon connector decision.

I do wish you luck however, and who knows what you will find, things change every day!

There is nothing wrong with a bit of rubber hose and a couple clamps...If you look at pictures of AJP's setup it was pretty clean..Without having to spend a lot of money on pipes/welding/fab... Just saying....I think total  I spent around $75.. and that includes the clamps, vacuum hose, Tee's, rubber hose, and custom bent dump pipe with the vband welded to it...

After the install it was pretty clean looking... The pictures I posted were just the rough in... I spent a bit of time and cleaned up rubber hose, positioning, etc...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter such as HPS which are made for forced induction applications and they also make a wide variety of configurations. Z
https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/ (https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/)

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 10:42:32 AM
Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a varirty of configurations. Z

So I took AJP suggestion and went with a small section of radiator hose. The one I purchased was prebent.. so I cut it according to how the bend went from the outlet to the dump pipe...I used a PVC saw (small teeth)to make the quick cut and followed up with a razor to smooth it out.

Radiator hose isn't going melt. And the heat coming off the pipe there is fairly benign..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 10:42:32 AM
Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a wide variety of configurations. Z
https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/ (https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/)

I bought my hump connector from silicon intakes. Looks to be identical to the ones that came with the charge pipe kit from EPP, other than being bare with regards to the ecopowerparts logo. They are a high quality supplier, and prices are extremely reasonable. HPS would work as well, and i believe they also sell prebent aluminum tubing that could work (though the pricing is about 2x what I payed for mine and I am not sure it has bead rolled ends (not necessarily needed when cutting, but nice to be able to weld a small bead rolled end section onto the end, and have a better connection with the silicon clamp).

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 19, 2016, 10:25:38 AM
There is nothing wrong with a bit of rubber hose and a couple clamps...If you look at pictures of AJP's setup it was pretty clean..Without having to spend a lot of money on pipes/welding/fab... Just saying....I think total  I spent around $75.. and that includes the clamps, vacuum hose, Tee's, rubber hose, and custom bent dump pipe with the vband welded to it...

After the install it was pretty clean looking... The pictures I posted were just the rough in... I spent a bit of time and cleaned up rubber hose, positioning, etc...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 19, 2016, 10:48:16 AM

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 10:42:32 AM
Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a varirty of configurations. Z

So I took AJP suggestion and went with a small section of radiator hose. The one I purchased was prebent.. so I cut it according to how the bend went from the outlet to the dump pipe...I used a PVC saw (small teeth)to make the quick cut and followed up with a razor to smooth it out.

Radiator hose isn't going melt. And the heat coming off the pipe there is fairly benign..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I do not believe there will be much heat here, if any as you mentioned. At most it would see the max IAT2 temps or slightly higher, which will almost never be more than 200F. Almost all silicon clamps can handle those temperatures, and radiator hose should easily handle that as well, given most OE cooling systems use a 190 degree thermostat, and run 210 degree coolant at a minimum

I totally agree, that both you and AJP made it look pretty good, the only reason I can't replicate that exactly is that I am using the aluminum charge pipes because i wanted to go with a TiAL BOV and I fear cracked stock pipes from what I have seen happen to others.

I ended up on the current solution because of the info from you guys about how rigid/supportive the radiator hose connection worked out.

That said, I am a sucker for all black everything, so once the welding is done, I will get it all coated black, or paint it myself. If I had been able to order the charge pipes with a small spout of aluminum pipe (similar to the noisemaker pipe) then I would have just put a coupler on that and not had to worry about welding on the aluminum. The silicon hump hose connector is pretty rigid, so I expect it will work in the same manner as the previous iterations on the stock plastic piping.

Still, should work out pretty well, as I can have my buddy weld it up pretty cheap.

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 19, 2016, 10:55:39 AM

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 10:42:32 AM
Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a wide variety of configurations. Z
https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/ (https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/)

I bought my hump connector from silicon intakes. Looks to be identical to the ones that came with the charge pipe kit from EPP, other than being bare with regards to the ecopowerparts logo. They are a high quality supplier, and prices are extremely reasonable. HPS would work as well, and i believe they also sell prebent aluminum tubing that could work (though the pricing is about 2x what I payed for mine and I am not sure it has bead rolled ends (not necessarily needed when cutting, but nice to be able to weld a small bead rolled end section onto the end, and have a better connection with the silicon clamp).

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 19, 2016, 10:25:38 AM
There is nothing wrong with a bit of rubber hose and a couple clamps...If you look at pictures of AJP's setup it was pretty clean..Without having to spend a lot of money on pipes/welding/fab... Just saying....I think total  I spent around $75.. and that includes the clamps, vacuum hose, Tee's, rubber hose, and custom bent dump pipe with the vband welded to it...

After the install it was pretty clean looking... The pictures I posted were just the rough in... I spent a bit of time and cleaned up rubber hose, positioning, etc...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 19, 2016, 10:48:16 AM

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 10:42:32 AM
Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a varirty of configurations. Z

So I took AJP suggestion and went with a small section of radiator hose. The one I purchased was prebent.. so I cut it according to how the bend went from the outlet to the dump pipe...I used a PVC saw (small teeth)to make the quick cut and followed up with a razor to smooth it out.

Radiator hose isn't going melt. And the heat coming off the pipe there is fairly benign..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I do not believe there will be much heat here, if any as you mentioned. At most it would see the max IAT2 temps or slightly higher, which will almost never be more than 200F. Almost all silicon clamps can handle those temperatures, and radiator hose should easily handle that as well, given most OE cooling systems use a 190 degree thermostat, and run 210 degree coolant at a minimum

I totally agree, that both you and AJP made it look pretty good, the only reason I can't replicate that exactly is that I am using the aluminum charge pipes because i wanted to go with a TiAL BOV and I fear cracked stock pipes from what I have seen happen to others.

I ended up on the current solution because of the info from you guys about how rigid/supportive the radiator hose connection worked out.

That said, I am a sucker for all black everything, so once the welding is done, I will get it all coated black, or paint it myself. If I had been able to order the charge pipes with a small spout of aluminum pipe (similar to the noisemaker pipe) then I would have just put a coupler on that and not had to worry about welding on the aluminum. The silicon hump hose connector is pretty rigid, so I expect it will work in the same manner as the previous iterations on the stock plastic piping.

Still, should work out pretty well, as I can have my buddy weld it up pretty cheap.

Good deal, I am stoked to see how it all turns out.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I Found that HPS makes aluminum tubing if you want to take that route and best of luck with your new project.  Z
  http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html (http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html)

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 11:15:46 AM
I Found that HPS makes aluminum tubing if you want to take that route.  Z    http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html (http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html)

Yeah I looked at their tubing, before I ended up going with the CXRacing tubing.

I also just realized, that when I posted the original post, I made a mistake. I actually bought tubing with a 75 degree bend.

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175 (http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175)

The CXRacing stuff also features bead rolled ends, which is pretty nice in an application that will see boost.

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 19, 2016, 11:22:47 AM

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 11:15:46 AM
I Found that HPS makes aluminum tubing if you want to take that route.  Z    http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html (http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html)

Yeah I looked at their tubing, before I ended up going with the CXRacing tubing.

I also just realized, that when I posted the original post, I made a mistake. I actually bought tubing with a 75 degree bend.

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175 (http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175)

The CXRacing stuff also features bead rolled ends, which is pretty nice in an application that will see boost.

Well anyways best of luck on the newly found fountain of youth project. Z  :)

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 11:30:14 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 19, 2016, 11:22:47 AM

Quote from: ZSHO on December 19, 2016, 11:15:46 AM
I Found that HPS makes aluminum tubing if you want to take that route.  Z    http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html (http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html)

Yeah I looked at their tubing, before I ended up going with the CXRacing tubing.

I also just realized, that when I posted the original post, I made a mistake. I actually bought tubing with a 75 degree bend.

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175 (http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175)

The CXRacing stuff also features bead rolled ends, which is pretty nice in an application that will see boost.

Well anyways best of luck on the newly found fountain of youth project. Z  :)

Thanks Z, and I certainly appreciate your input, and the other members as well, I will update the posts as progress is made, and have updated the original post with links to the parts that I bought for anyone curious. I will certainly take pictures along the way of the fab, and try to make a How To as well once it is all said and done.

Silicon Intakes has aluminum V-band flanges, but I didn't see the right size on their chart, so I emailed them to ask if they had one that would work with the Tial MVS. This is their reply:

"Hello,

I have forwarded your inquiry to our Technical Expert and he has responded with the following:

Brand specific wastegate v-band inlet and outlet flanges such as Tial typically need to be purchased from the wastegate manufacturer. For example, although Tial and Turbosmart wastegate v-band flanges look alike they are manufactured differently and will not fit together or seal properly. Unfortunately, we do not carry these types of brand specific flanges.

Please contact us with any further questions or concerns.

Regards,

Joseph Covely
Customer Service
Silicone Intake Systems, Inc.
www.siliconeintakes.com (http://www.siliconeintakes.com)
sales@siliconeintakes.com"

I suspect I would get the same reply from most other places that offer aluminum flanges. I'm going to take the new steel one that I ordered to the shop I worked at to see what a small batch would cost in aluminum. I know I could probably get a friend to make some out of scrap, but that would be frowned upon by the company and I don't want to get anyone in trouble.

Quote from: BOT_ROCKET on December 19, 2016, 11:39:34 PM
Silicon Intakes has aluminum V-band flanges, but I didn't see the right size on their chart, so I emailed them to ask if they had one that would work with the Tial MVS. This is their reply:

"Hello,

I have forwarded your inquiry to our Technical Expert and he has responded with the following:

Brand specific wastegate v-band inlet and outlet flanges such as Tial typically need to be purchased from the wastegate manufacturer. For example, although Tial and Turbosmart wastegate v-band flanges look alike they are manufactured differently and will not fit together or seal properly. Unfortunately, we do not carry these types of brand specific flanges.

Please contact us with any further questions or concerns.

Regards,

Joseph Covely
Customer Service
Silicone Intake Systems, Inc.
www.siliconeintakes.com (http://www.siliconeintakes.com)
sales@siliconeintakes.com"

I suspect I would get the same reply from most other places that offer aluminum flanges. I'm going to take the new steel one that I ordered to the shop I worked at to see what a small batch would cost in aluminum. I know I could probably get a friend to make some out of scrap, but that would be frowned upon by the company and I don't want to get anyone in trouble.

Let us know what you find out, if it's a price I. An stomach and before I start the actual cutting and welding I'm open to going the all aluminum route.

PPE, the place I linked earlier, does offer aluminum flanges in the correct size but they had a similar answer to what you got. It matches work, but most likely not, and definitely not with the TiAL clamp.

Got some significant progress made. A guy my dad knows did the welding, and we test fit in the process of cutting and shaping. Pipes are all painted gloss black as well. The wastage has the blue and black springs for 17.4psi. Bov has the white -8psi spring. Pics are attached.

We will do another coat of paint tomorrow and let everything cure a bit. Install will be Thursday, along with the downpipes!

Last few pics of painted pipes. Also bonus of the downpipes. Will update with pics from install once that is done as well

IMG 3753 looks like you have a giant silver..Ummm member.... Who new AJP was really silver surfer in disguise!!! Looks awesome, the setup that is. But you sold the SHO right? Where are you getting the test subject from?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Wow, that looks like some nice work! Noob question, but why a BOV in addition to the wastegate on the intake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 27, 2016, 08:00:11 PM
IMG 3753 looks like you have a giant silver..Ummm member.... Who new AJP was really silver surfer in disguise!!! Looks awesome, the setup that is. But you sold the SHO right? Where are you getting the test subject from?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have not sold my SHO, I still owe ~27k on her in fact! Working on my own car, but this will be the last mod for a while, then I need to put mod money into paying the car off a bit quicker. Once its payed down substantially the list is

1. Coilovers
2. ATP turbos
3. Custom FMIC
4...hopefully upgraded HPFP

As for the image, I was pretty excited picking the pipes up from the welder, but I have heard AJP has quite the way with the ladies so who knows!

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 27, 2016, 08:00:54 PM
Wow, that looks like some nice work! Noob question, but why a BOV in addition to the wastegate on the intake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is one of the options on the Eco Power Parts piping, the TiAL Q 50 will be used to replace the OEM BOVs. It has been rumoured that the stock BOVs can not handle higher boost levels that upgraded turbos give, but who knows, no real gains/differences have been seen. However, I really love the sound of the Q 50 BOV, and liked the bling option, so I went for it with the hot pipes.

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 27, 2016, 08:07:19 PM

It is one of the options on the Eco Power Parts piping, the TiAL Q 50 will be used to replace the OEM BOVs. It has been rumoured that the stock BOVs can not handle higher boost levels that upgraded turbos give, but who knows, no real gains/differences have been seen. However, I really love the sound of the Q 50 BOV, and liked the bling option, so I went for it with the hot pipes.

Ahh, okay, duh. :) Forgot the hot pipes have the option to remove stock BOV. Still waiting for the XSport pipes. :P



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 27, 2016, 08:14:29 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 27, 2016, 08:07:19 PM

It is one of the options on the Eco Power Parts piping, the TiAL Q 50 will be used to replace the OEM BOVs. It has been rumoured that the stock BOVs can not handle higher boost levels that upgraded turbos give, but who knows, no real gains/differences have been seen. However, I really love the sound of the Q 50 BOV, and liked the bling option, so I went for it with the hot pipes.

Ahh, okay, duh. :) Forgot the hot pipes have the option to remove stock BOV. Still waiting for the XSport pipes. :P



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No worries, and I hope they come to fruition soon, I am starting to become a baby about driving the SHO in winter (IDK why, it handles perfectly) and may look to get an XSport or a newer expedition as a winter car/travel car (so my cats can ride in style lol). The new expeidition is a bit more appealing, since it appears to have the F150 mounting on the ecoboost, and I like the body style a bit more, plus its a bit bigger (and to my knowledge there aren't many mods, if any, specific for it, though F150 ones might work--so I would be able to keep it stock without much work). If I got an XSport, I feel like it would end up just being a bigger version of my SHO, right down to the rims and tires lol.

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 27, 2016, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 27, 2016, 08:00:11 PM
IMG 3753 looks like you have a giant silver..Ummm member.... Who new AJP was really silver surfer in disguise!!! Looks awesome, the setup that is. But you sold the SHO right? Where are you getting the test subject from?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have not sold my SHO, I still owe ~27k on her in fact! Working on my own car, but this will be the last mod for a while, then I need to put mod money into paying the car off a bit quicker. Once its payed down substantially the list is

1. Coilovers
2. ATP turbos
3. Custom FMIC
4...hopefully upgraded HPFP

As for the image, I was pretty excited picking the pipes up from the welder, but I have heard AJP has quite the way with the ladies so who knows!

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 27, 2016, 08:00:54 PM
Wow, that looks like some nice work! Noob question, but why a BOV in addition to the wastegate on the intake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is one of the options on the Eco Power Parts piping, the TiAL Q 50 will be used to replace the OEM BOVs. It has been rumoured that the stock BOVs can not handle higher boost levels that upgraded turbos give, but who knows, no real gains/differences have been seen. However, I really love the sound of the Q 50 BOV, and liked the bling option, so I went for it with the hot pipes.

Damn...Tapatalk got me... I thought AJP posted that... Well...I stand corrected. Great Job on the fab work!! And congrats on the uh.. member good Sir...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 27, 2016, 08:26:50 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 27, 2016, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 27, 2016, 08:00:11 PM
IMG 3753 looks like you have a giant silver..Ummm member.... Who new AJP was really silver surfer in disguise!!! Looks awesome, the setup that is. But you sold the SHO right? Where are you getting the test subject from?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have not sold my SHO, I still owe ~27k on her in fact! Working on my own car, but this will be the last mod for a while, then I need to put mod money into paying the car off a bit quicker. Once its payed down substantially the list is

1. Coilovers
2. ATP turbos
3. Custom FMIC
4...hopefully upgraded HPFP

As for the image, I was pretty excited picking the pipes up from the welder, but I have heard AJP has quite the way with the ladies so who knows!

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 27, 2016, 08:00:54 PM
Wow, that looks like some nice work! Noob question, but why a BOV in addition to the wastegate on the intake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is one of the options on the Eco Power Parts piping, the TiAL Q 50 will be used to replace the OEM BOVs. It has been rumoured that the stock BOVs can not handle higher boost levels that upgraded turbos give, but who knows, no real gains/differences have been seen. However, I really love the sound of the Q 50 BOV, and liked the bling option, so I went for it with the hot pipes.

Damn...Tapatalk got me... I thought AJP posted that... Well...I stand corrected. Great Job on the fab work!! And congrats on the uh.. member good Sir...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

All good! I have his graces to do the mod though, so hopefully I do right by him and it comes out perfect.

I'll post a plethora more pics once everything is actually installed, but till then its just a waiting game!

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 27, 2016, 08:07:19 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 27, 2016, 08:00:11 PM
IMG 3753 looks like you have a giant silver..Ummm member.... Who new AJP was really silver surfer in disguise!!! Looks awesome, the setup that is. But you sold the SHO right? Where are you getting the test subject from?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have not sold my SHO, I still owe ~27k on her in fact! Working on my own car, but this will be the last mod for a while, then I need to put mod money into paying the car off a bit quicker. Once its payed down substantially the list is

1. Coilovers
2. ATP turbos
3. Custom FMIC
4...hopefully upgraded HPFP

As for the image, I was pretty excited picking the pipes up from the welder, but I have heard AJP has quite the way with the ladies so who knows!

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 27, 2016, 08:00:54 PM
Wow, that looks like some nice work! Noob question, but why a BOV in addition to the wastegate on the intake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is one of the options on the Eco Power Parts piping, the TiAL Q 50 will be used to replace the OEM BOVs. It has been rumoured that the stock BOVs can not handle higher boost levels that upgraded turbos give, but who knows, no real gains/differences have been seen. However, I really love the sound of the Q 50 BOV, and liked the bling option, so I went for it with the hot pipes.

I think the Tial-Q 50mm BOV is rated up to 20-psi and awesome progress so far and looking forward to the finishing touches and a great start for 2017. Z  :thumb:

Got impatient and did a bit of install today. Got the intercooler to throttlebody pipe(TiAL BOV pipe) installed. It also has the wastegate boost regulator! Routed my vacuum lines as well and hooked it all up. Car still has the stock BOVs and most of the stock charge piping, until I get the rest of the pipes installed tomorrow. But as it sits the TiAL Q seems to work well. No test of the boost regulator yet as all I did was rev the car and go back to idle.

AJPTurbo is also sending me a tune revision to include the boost regulator mod along with my downpipes spall I have to do is install and load the tune.

Enjoy the pics! (Included a few of my theottlebody as well to show how clean it is at the moment, 12.5k miles with the stock pic system and no catch cans, I still may get a UPR unit at some point)

FYI, there's one other 17.8 psi spring combo for the wastegate that's not on the Tial chart (it's a 3 spring combo). Based on the tolerances of the springs in the kit, you could try the 3 spring combo if the 2 springs don't seem to be quite enough. I think for the 15.95 psi, there were three different spring combos you could use to achieve the same theoretical rating.

I'm out of town right now, but I sent Brad a spreadsheet of all the possible combinations, since the Tial chart only shows one possible spring combo for each setting. He'll get you dialed in, no doubt. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 28, 2016, 05:27:09 PM
FYI, there's one other 17.8 psi spring combo for the wastegate that's not on the Tial chart (it's a 3 spring combo). Based on the tolerances of the springs in the kit, you could try the 3 spring combo if the 2 springs don't seem to be quite enough. I think for the 15.95 psi, there were three different spring combos you could use to achieve the same theoretical rating.

I'm out of town right now, but I sent Brad a spreadsheet of all the possible combinations, since the Tial chart only shows one possible spring combo for each setting. He'll get you dialed in, no doubt. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You ROCK! I looked at the chart and thought there may be a few other options left out, they seem to go in set steps.

Feel free to post that spreadsheet up at some point, but for now I am hoping this will work as needed. I am excited to run around with solid fuel pressure and minimal boost spikes!

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 28, 2016, 05:27:09 PM
FYI, there's one other 17.8 psi spring combo for the wastegate that's not on the Tial chart (it's a 3 spring combo). Based on the tolerances of the springs in the kit, you could try the 3 spring combo if the 2 springs don't seem to be quite enough. I think for the 15.95 psi, there were three different spring combos you could use to achieve the same theoretical rating.

I'm out of town right now, but I sent Brad a spreadsheet of all the possible combinations, since the Tial chart only shows one possible spring combo for each setting. He'll get you dialed in, no doubt. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the issue is the diameter of the springs right? You can't use two springs of the same diameter since the wastegate has one grove per spring diameter.. so while looking at the spring chart helps, you need to make sure that the spring combination will actually fit in the wastegate.

IE.. in theory the blue spring is not listed but has a rated psi of 8.7 which is discovered by subtracting the yellow psi out of the 15.95psi (blue/yellow)combination which is listed at 7.25 to give you what the blue spring is... However you may not be able to use the blue spring with the red spring to achieve 14.5psi since I believe the diameter of the springs will not allow them to work together.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 05:42:17 PM

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 28, 2016, 05:27:09 PM
FYI, there's one other 17.8 psi spring combo for the wastegate that's not on the Tial chart (it's a 3 spring combo). Based on the tolerances of the springs in the kit, you could try the 3 spring combo if the 2 springs don't seem to be quite enough. I think for the 15.95 psi, there were three different spring combos you could use to achieve the same theoretical rating.

I'm out of town right now, but I sent Brad a spreadsheet of all the possible combinations, since the Tial chart only shows one possible spring combo for each setting. He'll get you dialed in, no doubt. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the issue is the diameter of the springs right? You can't use two springs of the same diameter since the wastegate has one grove per spring diameter.. so while looking at the spring chart helps, you need to make sure that the spring combination will actually fit in the wastegate.

IE.. in theory the blue spring is not listed but has a rated psi of 8.7 which is discovered by subtracting the yellow psi out of the 15.95psi (blue/yellow)combination which is listed at 7.25 to give you what the blue spring is... However you may not be able to use the blue spring with the red spring to achieve 14.5psi since I believe the diameter of the springs will not allow them to work together.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I believe the black and white are the largest size, blue and red in the middle, and yellow and green the smallest. So like you said, you can only combine one from each size.

https://www.maperformance.com/products/tial-sport-replacement-mvr-mvs-wastegate-springs-mvr-mvs?gclid=CPfN9un4l9ECFQeewAod6CAObg (https://www.maperformance.com/products/tial-sport-replacement-mvr-mvs-wastegate-springs-mvr-mvs?gclid=CPfN9un4l9ECFQeewAod6CAObg)

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 28, 2016, 05:38:24 PM

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 28, 2016, 05:27:09 PM
FYI, there's one other 17.8 psi spring combo for the wastegate that's not on the Tial chart (it's a 3 spring combo). Based on the tolerances of the springs in the kit, you could try the 3 spring combo if the 2 springs don't seem to be quite enough. I think for the 15.95 psi, there were three different spring combos you could use to achieve the same theoretical rating.

I'm out of town right now, but I sent Brad a spreadsheet of all the possible combinations, since the Tial chart only shows one possible spring combo for each setting. He'll get you dialed in, no doubt. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You ROCK! I looked at the chart and thought there may be a few other options left out, they seem to go in set steps.

Feel free to post that spreadsheet up at some point, but for now I am hoping this will work as needed. I am excited to run around with solid fuel pressure and minimal boost spikes!

Sure thing! I'll be home tomorrow evening and can post it up tomorrow.

Mine was acting strange. I was initially only running 14psi of boost and the 15.95 and both 17.8 psi spring combos both resulted in the gate hanging open on shifts and my duty cycle would climb to 90-100%. Pretty atypical, I gather, from what Brad has seen on the SHO. He has ways to dial it in when you get close with your spring settings, and we were suspecting that maybe some of my springs were mismarked (unconfirmed). We eventually found a spring combo and boost setting that worked well.

I got really good at changing gate springs as well. Less than 8 minutes to remove the gate, change the springs, and reinstall. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Yeah, you can use up to three springs (small, medium, and large diameter) in any combination, but you can't use two of the same diameter. My kit came with 2 springs of each diameter.

When I put together my spring chart, I took this into account. There were two options for the 17.4 springs and I think there were 3 options for the 15.95 setting.

Some of the other duplicates, if memory serves, were well below or above what is likely to be your required set point.

I also considered a manual boost controller early on, but Brad was able to dial it in with the tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 28, 2016, 08:05:54 PM
Yeah, you can use up to three springs (small, medium, and large diameter) in any combination, but you can't use two of the same diameter. My kit came with 2 springs of each diameter.

When I put together my spring chart, I took this into account. There were two options for the 17.4 springs and I think there were 3 options for the 15.95 setting.

Some of the other duplicates, if memory serves, were well below or above what is likely to be your required set point.

I also considered a manual boost controller early on, but Brad was able to dial it in with the tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am hoping to stay away from the MBC route on this car, if possible, but if needed I am open to it. I think we will be able to dial it in without need for the MBC though. I have one for my mustang turbo build that I am on the fence about using, so there is one readily available, but I think with the 15psi commanded we should be ok with the 17.4 wastegate setting.

Yeah derf we will get it dialed in without a mbc but steal blue is super meticulous and is proficient with turbo components and reading datalogs and i think he was hell bent on running exactly what boost level he preferred with the spring pack he preferred and was comfortable fine tuning and tweaking and doing the trial and error with the mbc

He didnt mind so i didnt mind but normally id prefer to keep it simple for the end user and i want to avoid the extra mechanical device and you dont have a real good point of reference when you roll the knob on a mbc

When i can see and easily change desired tip(boost) in the tune to make a particular spring work and send you on your way

But yeah an mbc can get you in between springs if you are really wanting to run a specific boost level

But honestly steal blue is a sick individual who gets off on testing wastegate spring rates and most likely suffers multiple types of OCD lol

And I thought I was being a pain in the ass. I feel better now. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

apparently i just stumbled on the perfect springs for my tune. 17.4 spring combo and 15.5 commanded boost. it still gets a boost spike above commanded but the gate opens right before it starts to hurt fuel pressure so it's kind of the best of both worlds. only adjustment Brad had to make was keeping the throttle open


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 28, 2016, 09:13:35 PM
Yeah derf we will get it dialed in without a mbc but steal blue is super meticulous and is proficient with turbo components and reading datalogs and i think he was hell bent on running exactly what boost level he preferred with the spring pack he preferred and was comfortable fine tuning and tweaking and doing the trial and error with the mbc

He didnt mind so i didnt mind but normally id prefer to keep it simple for the end user and i want to avoid the extra mechanical device and you dont have a real good point of reference when you roll the knob on a mbc

When i can see and easily change desired tip(boost) in the tune to make a particular spring work and send you on your way

But yeah an mbc can get you in between springs if you are really wanting to run a specific boost level

But honestly steal blue is a sick individual who gets off on testing wastegate spring rates and most likely suffers multiple types of OCD lol

Yea....I probably do have several forms of OCD.. I had the MBC tagged with white out on the threads for different ambient temperature ranges too... The colder it got, the less spring pressure I used on the MBC... Crazy? Probably but my fuel pressure was always within a safe limit and the car would just fly... I was a half a step away from buying the Pro Racer Pack to start learning to tune it myself.. because I am OCD like that.. but then the family stuff took precedence...

My car would spike at 15 psi but for some reason would hold it for a lot of rpm range...even though commanded was about 14psi... my car does not handle boost spikes that well from fuel pressure perspective which is why the wastegate mod was crucial...But my car has a lot of weirdness that Brad found out..And was causing me headaches... However, you can throw spark at it like a champ on pump gas...

I digress... The MBC did allow to me set how much boost I wanted to spike and since my car would ride those spikes through a lot of the gear.. it made a lot of sense to use it....IMHO..

Sometimes I get hell-bent on getting something to run the way I want it... But I blame Brad on facilitating my OCDness with his willingness to help... He probably should have asked for more money...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 09:40:48 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 28, 2016, 09:13:35 PM
Yeah derf we will get it dialed in without a mbc but steal blue is super meticulous and is proficient with turbo components and reading datalogs and i think he was hell bent on running exactly what boost level he preferred with the spring pack he preferred and was comfortable fine tuning and tweaking and doing the trial and error with the mbc

He didnt mind so i didnt mind but normally id prefer to keep it simple for the end user and i want to avoid the extra mechanical device and you dont have a real good point of reference when you roll the knob on a mbc

When i can see and easily change desired tip(boost) in the tune to make a particular spring work and send you on your way

But yeah an mbc can get you in between springs if you are really wanting to run a specific boost level

But honestly steal blue is a sick individual who gets off on testing wastegate spring rates and most likely suffers multiple types of OCD lol

Yea....I probably do have several forms of OCD.. I had the MBC tagged with white out on the threads for different ambient temperature ranges too... The colder it got, the less spring pressure I used on the MBC... Crazy? Probably but my fuel pressure was always within a safe limit and the car would just fly... I was a half a step away from buying the Pro Racer Pack to start learning to tune it myself.. because I am OCD like that.. but then the family stuff took precedence...

My car would spike at 15 psi but for some reason would hold it for a lot of rpm range...even though commanded was about 14psi... my car does not handle boost spikes that well from fuel pressure perspective which is why the wastegate mod was crucial...But my car has a lot of weirdness that Brad found out..And was causing me headaches... However, you can throw spark at it like a champ on pump gas...

I digress... The MBC did allow to me set how much boost I wanted to spike and since my car would ride those spikes through a lot of the gear.. it made a lot of sense to use it....IMHO..

Sometimes I get hell-bent on getting something to run the way I want it... But I blame Brad on facilitating my OCDness with his willingness to help... He probably should have asked for money...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

ditto! i was prepared to buy several different spring combos and get it to open at a precise point, right when your reaping the benefits of the spike but not hurting fpr. and contemplating buying the software . . but with brad around he knows the tuning aspect so well it's hard to justify going through the learning curve to find out you can't create a tune as good as his lol!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 28, 2016, 11:01:49 PM
Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

It's some kind of inferred calculation from barometric pressure....Not entirely sure

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 11:04:09 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 28, 2016, 11:01:49 PM
Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AJP will have to comment for more comprehensive knowledge. . but as far as i've seen on the x4 the map2 sensor will read your barometric/atmospheric pressure with key on/no start condition. at my altitude it reads 83kpa or 12.1 psi.  not sure if the car is equipped with a individual barometric pressure sensor like i've had in previous platforms. but yes, ajp pioneered a tune where as i climb altitude it will switch to a torque based algorithm and command different levels of boost based on barometric pressure. truly an expert tune imho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: 8nutz8 on December 28, 2016, 11:21:06 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 11:04:09 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 28, 2016, 11:01:49 PM
Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AJP will have to comment for more comprehensive knowledge. . but as far as i've seen on the x4 the map2 sensor will read your barometric/atmospheric pressure with key on/no start condition. at my altitude it reads 83kpa or 12.1 psi.  not sure if the car is equipped with a individual barometric pressure sensor like i've had in previous platforms. but yes, ajp pioneered a tune where as i climb altitude it will switch to a torque based algorithm and command different levels of boost based on barometric pressure. truly an expert tune imho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a baro sensor on the PCM board

Pg 154

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf)

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on December 28, 2016, 11:58:05 PM

Quote from: 8nutz8 on December 28, 2016, 11:21:06 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 11:04:09 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 28, 2016, 11:01:49 PM
Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AJP will have to comment for more comprehensive knowledge. . but as far as i've seen on the x4 the map2 sensor will read your barometric/atmospheric pressure with key on/no start condition. at my altitude it reads 83kpa or 12.1 psi.  not sure if the car is equipped with a individual barometric pressure sensor like i've had in previous platforms. but yes, ajp pioneered a tune where as i climb altitude it will switch to a torque based algorithm and command different levels of boost based on barometric pressure. truly an expert tune imho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a baro sensor on the PCM board

Pg 154

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf)

sweet, thanks for the education i figured it had to have one just wasn't sure where it was. haven't looked but can you log baro?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: 8nutz8 on December 29, 2016, 12:08:03 AM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on December 28, 2016, 11:58:05 PM

Quote from: 8nutz8 on December 28, 2016, 11:21:06 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 11:04:09 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 28, 2016, 11:01:49 PM
Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AJP will have to comment for more comprehensive knowledge. . but as far as i've seen on the x4 the map2 sensor will read your barometric/atmospheric pressure with key on/no start condition. at my altitude it reads 83kpa or 12.1 psi.  not sure if the car is equipped with a individual barometric pressure sensor like i've had in previous platforms. but yes, ajp pioneered a tune where as i climb altitude it will switch to a torque based algorithm and command different levels of boost based on barometric pressure. truly an expert tune imho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a baro sensor on the PCM board

Pg 154

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf)

sweet, thanks for the education i figured it had to have one just wasn't sure where it was. haven't looked but can you log baro?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161229/315423ab94e72ac29edc3629360eca59.png)

Once I get some logs with the 17.4 spring sent to Brad I'll see if he minds posting them here, I added the  barometric PID to my data log file a little while ago because I thought it would be nice to see ambient pressure when logging.

He sent me the modified tune, we are also trying to shut off the Electronic BOVs, so I can fully remove them from the car, so a little testing will be needed. If that works, I will be super happy, but worst case I will go back to how others have done it, and cap them off and zip tie them out of the way.

I seem to have gotten lucky in my travels as the E85 stations nearing my parents house are few and far between, but close enough to get me from one to the next!

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 29, 2016, 07:55:39 AM
He sent me the modified tune, we are also trying to shut off the Electronic BOVs, so I can fully remove them from the car, so a little testing will be needed.

Is it a CEL that prevents full removal of the OE BOVs or are there other functional issues? If they can't be turned off, maybe a jumper like this would work (or could be made) to allow removal?

http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Product-Categories/Kompact-Series-BOV-BPV-Spares-Accessories/BOV-CEL-Plug-Ford-Mustang-Fiesta-EcoBoost.html (http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Product-Categories/Kompact-Series-BOV-BPV-Spares-Accessories/BOV-CEL-Plug-Ford-Mustang-Fiesta-EcoBoost.html)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tial spring chart attached, as promised.

I also reached out to Tial early this AM asking if they could provide me the nominal spring lengths and rates for each color, but their initial response seemed resistant to reveal that information.

I could easily measure my springs, but I'm not sure what they're spec'd to be, and Brad and I were suspecting something was up with the springs in my kit (either mismarked or out of spec), since I required the 18.85 spring combo to work with 14.5 PSI of boost.

If I'm able to pry the info out of Tial, I'll let you guys know.

Post any of my logs any time

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 29, 2016, 06:53:05 PM
Post any of my logs any time

This... This is what we need more of from our tuners and vendors.. it sure would help a lot of people.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 29, 2016, 07:24:19 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 29, 2016, 06:53:05 PM
Post any of my logs any time

This... This is what we need more of from our tuners and vendors.. it sure would help a lot of people.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

:D

The car pulls like a raped ape, or maybe even worse than that (I can't think of anything that sounds worse but my god, THE CAR PULLS!!!!).

I have never broken traction on up shift in warm weather until today. Repeatedy....

I will get some logs and post them up

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 29, 2016, 08:09:40 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on December 29, 2016, 07:55:39 AM
He sent me the modified tune, we are also trying to shut off the Electronic BOVs, so I can fully remove them from the car, so a little testing will be needed.

Is it a CEL that prevents full removal of the OE BOVs or are there other functional issues? If they can't be turned off, maybe a jumper like this would work (or could be made) to allow removal?

http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Product-Categories/Kompact-Series-BOV-BPV-Spares-Accessories/BOV-CEL-Plug-Ford-Mustang-Fiesta-EcoBoost.html (http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Product-Categories/Kompact-Series-BOV-BPV-Spares-Accessories/BOV-CEL-Plug-Ford-Mustang-Fiesta-EcoBoost.html)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was thinking maybe a CEL, not super sure, but everyone that had done it before left the OEM BOVs plugged in, and zip tied out of the way. No actual air into them, but electronically still there. However, I did not see any DTC or other indication of an issue, with both BOV completely removed and the tune that was sent my way! Hopefully this can be ported over for others so that the OEM BOVs don't have to sit in the engine bay looking ugly.

Ive never seen an ape getting raped but I imagine its not good and the ape that is getting raped is quite upset

You should post some pics of the engine and bov delete....

So if you have hot pipes from epp you leave them hooked up to the harness and cap them?..why cap them? They would just pulse as if they were hooked up..they dont know they aren't  hooked up?

Zsho you have them tucked away in your bay?

Derf you need an exhaust video...i really want to hear your combo...startup amd revs

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 29, 2016, 09:15:31 PM
Ive never seen an ape getting raped but I imagine its not good and the ape that is getting raped is quite upset

I imagine not, but it seems the norm these days is to reference something amazing as something awful.

Quote from: AJP turbo on December 29, 2016, 09:24:23 PM
You should post some pics of the engine and bov delete....

So if you have hot pipes from epp you leave them hooked up to the harness and cap them?..why cap them? They would just pulse as if they were hooked up..they dont know they aren't  hooked up?

Zsho you have them tucked away in your bay?

Derf you need an exhaust video...i really want to hear your combo...startup amd revs

Attached a few pictures and can take a few more once I am home, instead of at my parents place. I'll try and get an exaust video/videos as well in the next few days.

I believe it will look the same as most with the bovs disconnected as they hide it under the cover. But with the cover off it looks a lot cleaner.

First 2 pics are of the engine bay complete, I forgot to clip on of the stock bank one sensor wires to its wire clip so I had to wait for the engine bay to cool down enough. Second two are completed bov and wastegate. Last two are the silicon coupler from intercooler to the front turbo that is included in the hot pipe kit instead of aluminum pipe. It was a change I wasn't expecting but I really like it. Honestly that one pipe/piece was the worst one.

I have my rear BOV connected only and is snug as a bug with NO DTC'S.
I imagine and its proven it will set off a DTC sooner than later if both are left un-plugged,pic's below of rear bov zip-tied next to the purge valve. Z
Big Thanks once again to Mike.B from www.ecopowerparts.com (http://www.ecopowerparts.com)
                                    Happy & Healthy 2017.  Z
(http://i.imgur.com/G7vnUDRh.jpg?1)(http://i.imgur.com/nhadZQsh.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/bmUQlueh.jpg?2)
                             

Thanks Z. I have a ~1000 mile trip back home on sunday. I will definitely know by the end of that if a DTC is going to be set or not. I will have my stock pipes in my trunk, as well as zipties and my travel tool box so if a DTC does pop up I'll take care of it. I honestly don't expect one though.

Here are a few more pics for anyone interested.
(http://i.imgur.com/b64gmbIh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tkP3DhAh.jpg)

Nice install! Curious to hear about your BOV code (or lack thereof) after your return trip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on December 31, 2016, 12:09:37 PM
Nice install! Curious to hear about your BOV code (or lack thereof) after your return trip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ill update during/after the trip but I honestly do not expect a code. However, it could happen. I have driven around town a little bit with no codes as of yet. I got on it a bit on the way to the autoparts store with my dad, and he told me to watch my right foot or I would be getting a ticket in the SHO pretty soon (I think he was jealous how it compares to his '11 F150 Ecoboost haha!).

Have a safe and prosperous trip home and due report back with any initial findings. Z :)

Quote from: ZSHO on December 31, 2016, 01:47:21 PM
Have a safe and prosperous trip home and due report back with any initial findings. Z :)

X2

For anyone interested, I have absolutely no DTC codes. After driving the car 1100 or so miles from sunny 81 degree florida to 30 degree indiana, through rain and obnoxious traffic at points, I believe we can say that the OE BOVs can be successfully removed.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 02, 2017, 04:06:37 PM
For anyone interested, I have absolutely no DTC codes. After driving the car 1100 or so miles from sunny 81 degree florida to 30 degree indiana, through rain and obnoxious traffic at points, I believe we can say that the OE BOVs can be successfully removed.

Nicely done, guys! :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 02, 2017, 04:24:24 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 02, 2017, 04:06:37 PM
For anyone interested, I have absolutely no DTC codes. After driving the car 1100 or so miles from sunny 81 degree florida to 30 degree indiana, through rain and obnoxious traffic at points, I believe we can say that the OE BOVs can be successfully removed.

Nicely done, guys! :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just want to take a moment to give a major shout out to AJPTurbo (Brad) for his help and tuning. He sent me a tune for the pipes and wastegate mod during promptly, and sent another utilizing the boost regulator mod during my trip after I sent him my first set of logs. But mostly for his knowledge and getting me all set without DTCs.

Also thanks for Mike @ EcoPowerParts for the chargepipes/hotpipes and answering a few of my dumb questions.

Thanks to everyone else for the support and ideas. If anyone else decides to take on this endeavor I am more than happy to help in any way I can.

Quote from: glock-coma on December 29, 2016, 12:34:53 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161229/315423ab94e72ac29edc3629360eca59.png)

Sorry, this is a off topic, but are there transfer functions like this available for the 2-bar MAP and 3-bar TIP sensor (AA5Z-9F479-B, CX2231)? I was digging through my FSM, but couldn't seem to find one. If these are in the FSM, under what section are you finding them?

I am guessing this is from the OBD manual.

Quote from: SHOdded on January 02, 2017, 05:43:06 PM

Ahh, OK. I'll check there when I get home. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf)

Not sure if this will work...obd for gas 2014
Page 147 and 150 has the tip sensor and map sensor range

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 02, 2017, 05:58:24 PM
http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1404.pdf)

Not sure if this will work...obd for gas 2014
Page 147 and 150 has the tip sensor and map sensor range

Yep! Worked great! I also found the OBD document for 2013 Gas, probably mostly the same. Thanks, guys! :)

check to see if the F150 is any different may not be perfect for what you want, but ...

Quote from: SHOdded on January 02, 2017, 06:49:50 PM
check to see if the F150 is any different may not be perfect for what you want, but ...

I don't think I need anything for the F150, since I have an Explorer? Maybe I'm missing something, but for MY2013, I only see Diesel, Gasoline, HEV, and Fiesta. I didn't see a separate OBD manual for different gas engines. Looks like all the gas stuff is in one resource?

I'm not sure what I need yet, just gathering resources to assist in my plunge into the unknown (to me) world of Advantage III. ;) I assume one of the first things I'll need to figure out is updating my OE tune for a 3-bar MAP.

If (when) I have further questions, I'll start a separate thread, so this one doesn't go off into the weeds. I have a feeling I'm about to become Artax in the Swamp of Sadness. LOL

(https://aznbadger.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/tns_031noahhathawayartax.jpg)

I thought thats what you were after lol....ill email you some things later....but the transfer function is not what you need...you need to make sure you have calibrator level access...you may need to email or call sct

Go to speed density,scalar, and make the map slope and intercept values the same as TIP slope ans intercept

Its only 2 values that need changed for a 3 bar sensor

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 02, 2017, 07:21:54 PM
I thought thats what you were after lol....ill email you some things later....but the transfer function is not what you need...you need to make sure you have calibrator level access...you may need to email or call sct

Go to speed density,scalar, and make the map slope and intercept values the same as TIP slope ans intercept

Its only 2 values that need changed for a 3 bar sensor

Sweet, thanks! I figured it might end up being some sort of copy/paste of TIP values. I'm still waiting on my dongle, so I'll check on the calibrator access when I get it in the mail, presumably some time this week.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled boost regulator discussion!

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 02, 2017, 07:34:12 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 02, 2017, 07:21:54 PM
I thought thats what you were after lol....ill email you some things later....but the transfer function is not what you need...you need to make sure you have calibrator level access...you may need to email or call sct

Go to speed density,scalar, and make the map slope and intercept values the same as TIP slope ans intercept

Its only 2 values that need changed for a 3 bar sensor

Sweet, thanks! I figured it might end up being some sort of copy/paste of TIP values. I'm still waiting on my dongle, so I'll check on the calibrator access when I get it in the mail, presumably some time this week.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled boost regulator discussion!

X2 MiWiAu and lets due stick to the topic on hand and resume our scheduled boost regulator discussion,thanks.  Z

Didn't want to digress this thread anymore so i created a new post regarding access to the ObD manuals. any info is appreciated!
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7250.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7250.0.html)

A snippit back on topic: Here is a screen grab of the log from the milti gear WOT pull I did last night.

Key for clarity:

Stair step in blue is gear
Mostly flat blue line is TIP desired
Magenta is TIP
Orange is MAP
The leftover blue line is Fuel Rail Pressure

Once we finish the revs to account for addition of these mods (possibly add a bit more boost) I'll post up some full logs.

Just curious, derf, what's your TIP dsd for that snippet? I assume the scale is slightly different from the MAP displayed on your chart? Are you still working with the 17.40 PSI wastegate spring combo?

TIP desired is at 204.73 kpa I believe. The scales are all a bit different it seems on livelink.

Still on the 17.4 psi wastegate spring, correct.

Commanded boost is righty abroind 15 psi right now but it may be possible to bump it a bit based on the recent mods!

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 02, 2017, 10:52:16 PM
TIP desired is at 204.73 kpa I believe. The scales are all a bit different it seems on livelink.

Still on the 17.4 psi wastegate spring, correct.

Commanded boost is righty abroind 15 psi right now but it may be possible to bump it a bit based on the recent mods!

Nice! I ended up at 14.5PSI, but my application required the 18.85PSI springs, otherwise the gate would hang open and my wastegate duty cycle would climb too high. I'm wondering if my springs were mismarked or out of tolerance. A spring preload adjuster on the Tial would be ideal.

Good luck with your fine tuning!

EDIT: I think I just came up with an idea for a preload adjuster, but it will probably take me a few days to work through the details. :)

Thought I would share this... this is a datalog from the wastegate setup on my car with an MBC along with Brad's tune.. Couple things to note...

1: The knock sensor is still wanting to add more timing through the whole run...
2: Common with his tunes I couldn't get traction until I hit 10mph...
3: This was a stand still launch at around 1700 rpm's...
4: I spun on the upshift from 1'st to 2nd gear...
5: The MAP sensor is reading more boost ALMOST through the whole run than what is commanded..

Not my best launch but look at how steady the fuel pressure is through the whole run along with the AFR's... also look at how flat that boost curve is through the gears..

With this tune I torched everyone from a stop light... vettes, srt's, mustangs, SS's, not much could touch me going 0-60..


Now that all being said.. one of these days I am going to create a thread with datalogs from Unleashed, LMS, and Brad so people can see the difference in how tuners approach tuning this cars... and the effect it has on them.

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 03, 2017, 10:26:05 AM
Thought I would share this... this is a datalog from the wastegate setup on my car with an MBC along with Brad's tune..

Which Tial spring combo are you using with your MBC and this data log?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 03, 2017, 10:26:05 AM
Thought I would share this... this is a datalog from the wastegate setup on my car with an MBC along with Brad's tune.. Couple things to note...

1: The knock sensor is still wanting to add more timing through the whole run...
2: Common with his tunes I couldn't get traction until I hit 10mph...
3: This was a stand still launch at around 1700 rpm's...
4: I spun on the upshift from 1'st to 2nd gear...
5: The MAP sensor is reading more boost ALMOST through the whole run than what is commanded..

Not my best launch but look at how steady the fuel pressure is through the whole run along with the AFR's... also look at how flat that boost curve is through the gears..

With this tune I torched everyone from a stop light... vettes, srt's, mustangs, SS's, not much could touch me going 0-60..


Now that all being said.. one of these days I am going to create a thread with datalogs from Unleashed, LMS, and Brad so people can see the difference in how tuners approach tuning this cars... and the effect it has on them.

Well get it done already...I love some of the analytics you guys do it can really put things into perspective...Yeah these things are tough from a dig with the small turbos and awd

I've noticed that the 2010-12' SHO's have a little different boost logic and doesn't have the same scalars available in the tunes as the 2013+ cars but it's not a detriment at all.

And I also think the way you were manipulating the boost reference with your MBC was having an effect on your elevated boost but either way your car was strong

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 03, 2017, 10:46:44 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 03, 2017, 10:26:05 AM
Thought I would share this... this is a datalog from the wastegate setup on my car with an MBC along with Brad's tune..

Which Tial spring combo are you using with your MBC and this data log?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

15.95 with the Yellow and Blue spring.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 03, 2017, 10:49:05 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 03, 2017, 10:26:05 AM
Thought I would share this... this is a datalog from the wastegate setup on my car with an MBC along with Brad's tune.. Couple things to note...

1: The knock sensor is still wanting to add more timing through the whole run...
2: Common with his tunes I couldn't get traction until I hit 10mph...
3: This was a stand still launch at around 1700 rpm's...
4: I spun on the upshift from 1'st to 2nd gear...
5: The MAP sensor is reading more boost ALMOST through the whole run than what is commanded..

Not my best launch but look at how steady the fuel pressure is through the whole run along with the AFR's... also look at how flat that boost curve is through the gears..

With this tune I torched everyone from a stop light... vettes, srt's, mustangs, SS's, not much could touch me going 0-60..


Now that all being said.. one of these days I am going to create a thread with datalogs from Unleashed, LMS, and Brad so people can see the difference in how tuners approach tuning this cars... and the effect it has on them.

Well get it done already...I love some of the analytics you guys do it can really put things into perspective...Yeah these things are tough from a dig with the small turbos and awd

I've noticed that the 2010-12' SHO's have a little different boost logic and doesn't have the same scalars available in the tunes as the 2013+ cars but it's not a detriment at all.

And I also think the way you were manipulating the boost reference with your MBC was having an effect on your elevated boost but either way your car was strong

The MBC had some interesting effects... I believe.. and I think my logs prove it out, that if you take the time to dial it in with a the MBC, you can see good mid range torque increase by riding out those spikes at the shift just a little bit more than the WG by itself will allow... at the expense of fuel pressure of course.

But I spent quite a bit of time tuning that little bastard in there... run, datalog, adjust, repeat.... run, datalog, adjust, repeat... and you need to know how your car responds to lower temps.. so if you spike too hard on a tune that is not designed to handle those spikes you fuel pressure tanks.. or you can tighten the MBC all the way done effectively getting rid of the WG by not letting it open.. tried that... FRP dropped bellow 500 psi... afrs spiked.. stfts maxxed out.. car sh!t itself and closed the throttle to prevent the big bang... fun fun...

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 03, 2017, 11:14:37 AM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 03, 2017, 10:49:05 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 03, 2017, 10:26:05 AM
or you can tighten the MBC all the way done effectively getting rid of the WG by not letting it open.. tried that... FRP dropped bellow 500 psi... afrs spiked.. stfts maxxed out.. car sh!t itself and closed the throttle to prevent the big bang... fun fun...

That's kinda why I don't recommend the average person use the MBC on top of the mod...When you set the MBC to bleed the reference boost signal in order for the Gate mod to not open you are bleeding off some of the boost reference that would otherwise go through the factory boost solenoid and onto the factory turbo wastegate to open it which will slow the turbo down and lower boost

I think the MBC route is a nice option for a car that may need fine tuning between the spring combinations, or for eaking out just a bit more power BUT as mentioned for a DD type of car, I think it may be overkill. Would be a nice option for a race-tune type of setup.

Per AJP's request, I am swapping to the 15.95 spring pressure combo, and running a slightly higher E percentage than I have been running. I will keep the thread updated once I get the next set of logging done. This is partially also to see some more insight can be shed on the predicament that MiWiAu has with his spring combos

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 03, 2017, 12:50:13 PM
I think the MBC route is a nice option for a car that may need fine tuning between the spring combinations, or for eaking out just a bit more power BUT as mentioned for a DD type of car, I think it may be overkill. Would be a nice option for a race-tune type of setup.

Per AJP's request, I am swapping to the 15.95 spring pressure combo, and running a slightly higher E percentage than I have been running. I will keep the thread updated once I get the next set of logging done. This is partially also to see some more insight can be shed on the predicament that MiWiAu has with his spring combos

Woot. Looking forward to your results!

At some point, I'm also planning to catalog the free length, spring rates, and install preloads of the springs in my kit. Tial hasn't been very helpful in providing nominal values, but at least we'll have a single point of reference.

Also, FYI, I ordered some parts to MacGyver (or possibly MacGruber) a spring preload adjuster for the Tial, but it will take some time to receive everything. I also need to measure the internal clearances on the MV-S from the diaphragm to the bottom side of the cap to see how much room I have for my mechanism when the valve is open and springs are compressed.

What I'm thinking is making a preload adjuster that will thread in through the center cap threads and interface only with the small diameter gate spring.

Using the alternative spring chart I posted earlier, every single Tial pressure option has an alternate spring combo that utilizes a small diameter spring. If this works, it would allow you to alter the spring preload on the small spring to fine tune the cracking pressure without having to modify the boost reference with a MBC.

Of course, this will only be possible if there is sufficient clearance in the gate once the valve has been actuated and the springs don't sack out when additional preload is added...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 03, 2017, 12:50:13 PM
I think the MBC route is a nice option for a car that may need fine tuning between the spring combinations, or for eaking out just a bit more power BUT as mentioned for a DD type of car, I think it may be overkill. Would be a nice option for a race-tune type of setup.

Per AJP's request, I am swapping to the 15.95 spring pressure combo, and running a slightly higher E percentage than I have been running. I will keep the thread updated once I get the next set of logging done. This is partially also to see some more insight can be shed on the predicament that MiWiAu has with his spring combos

But the thing is, is I can change target boost by whatever. A single KPA to get closer or further away from the spring rating of the Gate mod. So there really isn't a need for the MBC....Steal blue was using the MBC to make his own adjustments so he didn't have to bother me which he really wasn't lol

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 03, 2017, 01:10:14 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 03, 2017, 12:50:13 PM
I think the MBC route is a nice option for a car that may need fine tuning between the spring combinations, or for eaking out just a bit more power BUT as mentioned for a DD type of car, I think it may be overkill. Would be a nice option for a race-tune type of setup.

Per AJP's request, I am swapping to the 15.95 spring pressure combo, and running a slightly higher E percentage than I have been running. I will keep the thread updated once I get the next set of logging done. This is partially also to see some more insight can be shed on the predicament that MiWiAu has with his spring combos

Woot. Looking forward to your results!

At some point, I'm also planning to catalog the free length, spring rates, and install preloads of the springs in my kit. Tial hasn't been very helpful in providing nominal values, but at least we'll have a single point of reference.

Also, FYI, I ordered some parts to MacGyver (or possibly MacGruber) a spring preload adjuster for the Tial, but it will take some time to receive everything. I also need to measure the internal clearances on the MV-S from the diaphragm to the bottom side of the cap to see how much room I have for my mechanism when the valve is open and springs are compressed.

What I'm thinking is making a preload adjuster that will thread in through the center cap threads and interface only with the small diameter gate spring.

Using the alternative spring chart I posted earlier, every single Tial pressure option has an alternate spring combo that utilizes a small diameter spring. If this works, it would allow you to alter the spring preload on the small spring to fine tune the cracking pressure without having to modify the boost reference with a MBC.

Of course, this will only be possible if there is sufficient clearance in the gate once the valve has been actuated and the springs don't sack out when additional preload is added...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like an interesting idea, keep us posted!

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 03, 2017, 01:11:41 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 03, 2017, 12:50:13 PM
I think the MBC route is a nice option for a car that may need fine tuning between the spring combinations, or for eaking out just a bit more power BUT as mentioned for a DD type of car, I think it may be overkill. Would be a nice option for a race-tune type of setup.

Per AJP's request, I am swapping to the 15.95 spring pressure combo, and running a slightly higher E percentage than I have been running. I will keep the thread updated once I get the next set of logging done. This is partially also to see some more insight can be shed on the predicament that MiWiAu has with his spring combos

But the thing is, is I can change target boost by whatever. A single KPA to get closer or further away from the spring rating of the Gate mod. So there really isn't a need for the MBC....Steal blue was using the MBC to make his own adjustments so he didn't have to bother me which he really wasn't lol

Gotcha, I'll let you do the hard work then, and I'll just drive the heck out of it ;p

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 03, 2017, 01:11:41 PM

But the thing is, is I can change target boost by whatever. A single KPA to get closer or further away from the spring rating of the Gate mod. So there really isn't a need for the MBC....Steal blue was using the MBC to make his own adjustments so he didn't have to bother me which he really wasn't lol

Hmm... maybe you can convince me that I'm wasting my time with this preload idea.

On my Explorer, the 15.95 and both 17.4 spring combos were causing the gate to hang open on shifts when we were at 14PSI target boost, and the 18.85 spring combo didn't actuate at all on the 1-2 shift until we bumped the target boost to 14.5PSI.

Even then, my fuel pressure at the 1-2 shift was dropping to ~1100 psi vs ~1900 psi at the 2-3 shift. Granted, this was with an ambient temp of 8.6*F LOL, so pressures will probably improve with warmer temps.

It seems to be shaping up that my spring settings are somewhat of an outlier, but here's my general question: wouldn't it be more ideal to tune to max boost and spark allowed by KR and fuel pressure, then dial in the boost regulator (for further improvements with fuel, MAP, and KR) with spring preload, rather than try to tune the regulator with desired boost? It seems like the latter may force a decision between too much boost required to actuate the regulator (and lower fuel/higher KR) or running lower boost to not overpower the gate springs and thus compromising optimal power output.

At least in my particular situation, I'm thinking my optimized spring combo is somewhere between my 17.4 and 18.85 springs, and going to the lower spring combo with a slight increase in preload might help improve the fuel pressure drop on my 1-2 shift.

I guess it depends on one's definition of "ideal" solution. One way (preload or MBC) is relatively high effort for the end user compared to tweaking the target boost, and it would also have the potential to remove another variable from the control of the tuner, which I could see being a potential issue as well by increasing the possibility of user error.

I guess I will proceed on this preload thing with caution, unless you tell me it's a dumb idea. :)





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is a pic of my boost reference line/vacuum reference line for anyone that needs it. This is from when I had just the boost gauge hooked up. Since install of the wastegate and bov I ran a 3/8" fuel line to a cross near the firewall a d have grabbed reference for all items (bov, wastegate, and boost gauge) from the cross.

Thanks, derf.

I bit the bullet and decided to go the more expensive route, with the hopes of added convenience: http://www.stage3motorsports.com//TS-0720-1005-2013-2016-F150-3-5L-EcoBoost-Turbosmart-MAP-Sensor-Boost-Reference-Adapter.html (http://www.stage3motorsports.com//TS-0720-1005-2013-2016-F150-3-5L-EcoBoost-Turbosmart-MAP-Sensor-Boost-Reference-Adapter.html)

I contacted Turbosmart directly, and they basically said it would probably work, and that I shouldn't have any issues with still fitting the engine cover. Guess we'll see soon. LOL

Looking forward to results, MiWiAu.    Probably won't affect the MAP readings, but would like to have field data to bear that out.  Good point about the appearance cover.  Run nekked!!!

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 04, 2017, 01:41:22 PM
Thanks, derf.

I bit the bullet and decided to go the more expensive route, with the hopes of added convenience: http://www.stage3motorsports.com//TS-0720-1005-2013-2016-F150-3-5L-EcoBoost-Turbosmart-MAP-Sensor-Boost-Reference-Adapter.html (http://www.stage3motorsports.com//TS-0720-1005-2013-2016-F150-3-5L-EcoBoost-Turbosmart-MAP-Sensor-Boost-Reference-Adapter.html)

I contacted Turbosmart directly, and they basically said it would probably work, and that I shouldn't have any issues with still fitting the engine cover. Guess we'll see soon. LOL

I assume that is being used for the OE 2 bar that we switch to a 3 bar? Since it only has one bolt hole shown. Do they include hardware as well?

I am going to try to run my wastegate from the TIP, as AJP did originally, as my boost is acting slightly odd currently, and the TIP pressure reference should be a few kPA higher. I will report back whether that makes it run better, etc.

I picked up 2 T's (1/4" pipe thread), some 1/4" to 1/4" nipples, and appropriate clamps, as well as a few pipe thread plugs. I am going to plug the port on my cross to the wastegate mod. Then use a T on the TIP reference. If the car runs better/AJP likes it more that way, I will turn the cross into a T permanently.

There is also a port on the bottom of the MAP sensor mount on the EPP charge piping, that I believe is 1/8" NPT. That may be another option in the future as well.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 02:32:42 PM
I assume that is being used for the OE 2 bar that we switch to a 3 bar? Since it only has one bolt hole shown. Do they include hardware as well?

I am going to try to run my wastegate from the TIP, as AJP did originally, as my boost is acting slightly odd currently, and the TIP pressure reference should be a few kPA higher. I will report back whether that makes it run better, etc.

I picked up 2 T's (1/4" pipe thread), some 1/4" to 1/4" nipples, and appropriate clamps, as well as a few pipe thread plugs. I am going to plug the port on my cross to the wastegate mod. Then use a T on the TIP reference. If the car runs better/AJP likes it more that way, I will turn the cross into a T permanently.

There is also a port on the bottom of the MAP sensor mount on the EPP charge piping, that I believe is 1/8" NPT. That may be another option in the future as well.

Yes, this adapter installs between the MAP sensor and the IM where we swap out our 2-bar sensor. It appears to be a fairly complete kit.

Here are the install instructions, which also has a list of the included hardware. https://system.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=426153&c=830533&h=f333ecb0c63bad41fc6d&_xt=.pdf&ck=SOvAzYxHAmDnD1Ri&vid=RA6Nw4xHAmbnD0l2&cktime=149412&promocode=&promocodeaction=overwrite&addrcountry=AU&gc=clear&whence=

I'm currently using the charge pipe reference from Brad's how-to, but I'm thinking the lower boost reference from the IM might allow the boost regulator to not hang open quite so long after shifts and allow me to move back down to lower spring pressure settings without dialing back my boost.

Quote from: SHOdded on January 04, 2017, 02:04:55 PM
Looking forward to results, MiWiAu.    Probably won't affect the MAP readings, but would like to have field data to bear that out.  Good point about the appearance cover.  Run nekked!!!

You know how I love my data, Manu. ;)

An A > B MAP comparison will be the very first thing I do.

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 04, 2017, 03:17:23 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 02:32:42 PM
I assume that is being used for the OE 2 bar that we switch to a 3 bar? Since it only has one bolt hole shown. Do they include hardware as well?

I am going to try to run my wastegate from the TIP, as AJP did originally, as my boost is acting slightly odd currently, and the TIP pressure reference should be a few kPA higher. I will report back whether that makes it run better, etc.

I picked up 2 T's (1/4" pipe thread), some 1/4" to 1/4" nipples, and appropriate clamps, as well as a few pipe thread plugs. I am going to plug the port on my cross to the wastegate mod. Then use a T on the TIP reference. If the car runs better/AJP likes it more that way, I will turn the cross into a T permanently.

There is also a port on the bottom of the MAP sensor mount on the EPP charge piping, that I believe is 1/8" NPT. That may be another option in the future as well.

Yes, this adapter installs between the MAP sensor and the IM where we swap out our 2-bar sensor. It appears to be a fairly complete kit.

Here are the install instructions, which also has a list of the included hardware. https://system.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=426153&c=830533&h=f333ecb0c63bad41fc6d&_xt=.pdf&ck=SOvAzYxHAmDnD1Ri&vid=RA6Nw4xHAmbnD0l2&cktime=149412&promocode=&promocodeaction=overwrite&addrcountry=AU&gc=clear&whence=

I'm currently using the charge pipe reference from Brad's how-to, but I'm thinking the lower boost reference from the IM might allow the boost regulator to not hang open quite so long after shifts and allow me to move back down to lower spring pressure settings without dialing back my boost.

Quote from: SHOdded on January 04, 2017, 02:04:55 PM
Looking forward to results, MiWiAu.    Probably won't affect the MAP readings, but would like to have field data to bear that out.  Good point about the appearance cover.  Run nekked!!!

You know how I love my data, Manu. ;)

An A > B MAP comparison will be the very first thing I do.

That certainly does look complete. Upon further talking to Brad, I am going to try and use the reference port on the EPP charge pipe MAP sensor bung (essentially the same as your kit, except its already welded on my pipes, and only one port; and on the opposite MAP sensor). I will report back with my findings as well.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 03:43:06 PM
I will report back with my findings as well.

Cool. By the end of this it looks like we'll have multiple ways to potentially dial in this boost regulator.

Look at this monstrosity you've created, Brad. I hope you're proud of yourself. LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vacuum reference location update:

I was able to use the same vacuum hose piece that I used before, thought it is just barely too short (1/4") or less, so if this is going to be the permanent location I will cut a piece of the new hose I bought today. Otherwise I will save that. If this is not going to be the location then I will use the new hose to get access to the port for the TIP. Based on where the TIP reference is, it still may see a bit higher pressure than this one, since it is pre-intercooler, and this location is post intercooler on the MAP near the throttlebody. However, this is also the MAP sensor that is directly across from the wastegate.

I just sent logs to Brad to see what it looks like.

I will update with pics once my phone decides to work again


1st through 4th pic are of the routing to under the map sensor. You can see the port in the third picture, as well as clearance with hose installed and sensor installed in the 4th. the 5th picture is the TIP location that can also be used/may still be used. You can see the hose coming off of the charge pipe, with the chrome clamp holding it on. That is where the vacuum line may be routed to if this location does not suffice.

You can see in the pics that there is a bit of a sharp bend for the hose that I used, which is why I said it was a bit too short, however I did not want to cut up new hose for the sake of testing, if I was going to ultimately move to a different location (TIP reference).

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 05:47:33 PM
Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have a manual controller I am going to use also to dial it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 08:25:34 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 05:47:33 PM
Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have a manual controller I am going to use also to dial it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am starting to worry I may have to go that route. Had to step down to the 14.5 spring combo, though possibly that was just to make sure my gate works. Waiting on Brad to tell me the next step, but my gate definitely works on the 14.50 combo.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 08:25:34 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 05:47:33 PM
Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have a manual controller I am going to use also to dial it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you familiar enough with data logging and reading your own logs? There are several areas you need to monitor to tune for it.. map, tip, wgdc, rail pressure, and more.

And you need to monitor in real time...on a laptop...after each adjustment...or you can
mess stuff up...

If you are not confident in your ability to adjust the mbc based on what you are reading in the logs then don't do it. You are asking for trouble and most likely give Brad headaches...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 08:29:36 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 08:25:34 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 05:47:33 PM
Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have a manual controller I am going to use also to dial it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am starting to worry I may have to go that route. Had to step down to the 14.5 spring combo, though possibly that was just to make sure my gate works. Waiting on Brad to tell me the next step, but my gate definitely works on the 14.50 combo.

Log? :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly, listen to Brad, he will not steer you wrong. He is really good at what he does, let him let you know which spring is giving you the best results on the logs. I was looking for something very specific with the MBC setup... the tune he had me on before the mbc mod rocked all the other tunes I had.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 04, 2017, 08:36:48 PM
Honestly, listen to Brad, he will not steer you wrong. He is really good at what he does, let him let you know which spring is giving you the best results on the logs. I was looking for something very specific with the MBC setup... the tune he had me on before the mbc mod rocked all the other tunes I had.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They for sure have been awesome. I think for right now he is still needing to confirm my gate works. My car is pretty much doing the opposite of MiWiAu 's Xsport. Rather than having to spring way up and drop boost, I have not been cracking the gate on the first two spring combos(17.4 psi, 15.95) I may have cracked it a bit on the 15.95 not sure, but I didn't seem to hear it on those two. Definitely heard it on 14.50 so hopefully Brad knows what to do from here (I am sure he does)

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 04, 2017, 08:36:48 PM
Honestly, listen to Brad, he will not steer you wrong. He is really good at what he does, let him let you know which spring is giving you the best results on the logs. I was looking for something very specific with the MBC setup... the tune he had me on before the mbc mod rocked all the other tunes I had.

+1,000,000. Don't worry, little camper! Brad will get you sorted. :) Keep in mind, the industry standard for compression spring rate tolerance is +/-10%. Every single spring has the possibility of creating differences for each application, so there are bound to be nuances.

Considering all the other variables for each vehicle setup, it just requires some time to get it dialed in. One thing I can't stress enough about working with Brad is that he gives you a truly custom tune, which takes a little bit of time, but it will be right for YOUR car in the end.

The mention of StealBlueSho's MBC and my idea for a preload adjuster was not intended to freak anyone out or call into question Brad's ability to dial this thing in or the efficacy of the mod with the included kit springs. I was just looking to take things to another insane (and likely unnecessary) level. LOL

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 08:42:31 PM

They for sure have been awesome. I think for right now he is still needing to confirm my gate works. My car is pretty much doing the opposite of MiWiAu 's Xsport. Rather than having to spring way up and drop boost, I have not been cracking the gate on the first two spring combos(17.4 psi, 15.95) I may have cracked it a bit on the 15.95 not sure, but I didn't seem to hear it on those two. Definitely heard it on 14.50 so hopefully Brad knows what to do from here (I am sure he does)

When the gate opens, you'll know it (unless you're running in winter slush, like I did once). With my initial 15.95 combo, it was open from the 1>2 shift all the way through 3rd.

My advice would be to let Brad take the lead and let him direct your changes. Part of my issue was I got a wild hair and went and ran a ton of spring combos and inundated him with data logs (surprised, right? LOL). Then I left for a week on a business trip and when I got back, I had us off on such a tangent that we never circled back to one of the combos that may ultimately work better than the one I have now. Brad went back through some of my older boost regulator logs and found one that actually looked pretty good with a lower spring combo (17.4), so we're going to circle back on it once I get my new boost reference adapter.

To recap, don't get worried. Take your time; it's a [fun] process! Brad rulez!

Here are my most recent logs. Rev18&19 Logs are on the 17.40 PSI combo. Rev20 and Rev20_MAPVacuumSource are on 15.95PSI. The latter of the two is with the boost reference on the charge pipe location, the 3 bar sensor right by the throttlebody (TIP sensor I believe?) that is shown in the pictures above. Rev20_ChargePipe3BarVacuum_14_50PSI is on the 14.50 PSI combo, as the name denotes. I am still not the best at looking at logs, but am trying to learn. Any comments anyone wants to make, feel free.

derf, quick question on your Tial setup. You have your boost reference running to the bottom side of the diaphragm, with the extra air ports plugged (with thread lock or sealer), correct? And on the spring side of the diaphragm, you have at least one of the cap ports vented to atmosphere?

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 04, 2017, 09:18:36 PM
derf, quick question on your Tial setup. You have your boost reference running to the bottom side of the diaphragm, with the extra air ports plugged (with thread lock or sealer), correct? And on the spring side of the diaphragm, you have at least one of the cap ports vented to atmosphere?

I have one air port on the bottom as my reference. The other two are capped (no sealent/thread lock - I talked to support for the company I bought it from, and they said with the manner of bolt, etc. none was needed, could this be an issue with how it is currently?).

Both top ports are open currently, as that is how the instructions stated to do it for a VTA wastegate.

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 04, 2017, 08:32:00 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 08:25:34 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 05:47:33 PM
Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have a manual controller I am going to use also to dial it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you familiar enough with data logging and reading your own logs? There are several areas you need to monitor to tune for it.. map, tip, wgdc, rail pressure, and more.

And you need to monitor in real time...on a laptop...after each adjustment...or you can
mess stuff up...

If you are not confident in your ability to adjust the mbc based on what you are reading in the logs then don't do it. You are asking for trouble and most likely give Brad headaches...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My outlook on this...tell me if this makes any sense.

I did not buy the same gate everyone else has. The springs in it are setup for 7,13,and20psi... If I use the 13psi spring and the mbc to adjust the pressure up to about 16 psi. My tune is only setup for 14psi at the moment. So I am not sure how limiting the boost below where the spikes are now is going to cause a problem. Am I thinking right? Or does this not make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 09:21:17 PM

I have one air port on the bottom as my reference. The other two are capped (no sealent/thread lock - I talked to support for the company I bought it from, and they said with the manner of bolt, etc. none was needed, could this be an issue with how it is currently?).

Both top ports are open currently, as that is how the instructions stated to do it for a VTA wastegate.

If any of those bottom ports are leaking, you could be bleeding off boost pressure that would otherwise help pressurize the diaphragm and compress the springs (to open the valve). There should also be copper crush washers on both sides of your boost reference banjo fitting. I would use some thread sealer or Loctite (my instructions say blue Loctite) on the plugs, just to make sure you don't have a little leak.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 09:27:20 PM
My outlook on this...tell me if this makes any sense.

I did not buy the same gate everyone else has. The springs in it are setup for 7,13,and20psi... If I use the 13psi spring and the mbc to adjust the pressure up to about 16 psi. My tune is only setup for 14psi at the moment. So I am not sure how limiting the boost below where the spikes are now is going to cause a problem. Am I thinking right? Or does this not make sense?

See Brad's (AJP Turbo) post #97 regarding MBC.

Can you get additional springs for your gate? I would imagine it would be tricky to dial that in with such a large change in pressure range between your current options. Does your wastegate have the ability to change spring preload (pre-compress the spring)? If so, perhaps you can get away with the 13 psi spring and just crank up the preload to hold it closed to a higher pressure.

Are you working with AJP? A tune is required to modify the throttle to keep it open. If your tune doesn't have that update, it won't work very well because the throttle will close to control MAP which will further increase TIP and cause extra bypass through the boost regulator.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 09:27:20 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 04, 2017, 08:32:00 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 08:25:34 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 05:47:33 PM
Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have a manual controller I am going to use also to dial it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you familiar enough with data logging and reading your own logs? There are several areas you need to monitor to tune for it.. map, tip, wgdc, rail pressure, and more.

And you need to monitor in real time...on a laptop...after each adjustment...or you can
mess stuff up...

If you are not confident in your ability to adjust the mbc based on what you are reading in the logs then don't do it. You are asking for trouble and most likely give Brad headaches...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My outlook on this...tell me if this makes any sense.

I did not buy the same gate everyone else has. The springs in it are setup for 7,13,and20psi... If I use the 13psi spring and the mbc to adjust the pressure up to about 16 psi. My tune is only setup for 14psi at the moment. So I am not sure how limiting the boost below where the spikes are now is going to cause a problem. Am I thinking right? Or does this not make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That 20 psi spring will be too much and we won't reach the pressure needed to open the new gate mod.....And the 13 will want to always have the gate open and then wastegate duty cycle will/can skyrocket and you beat the s*** out of the turbos for low boost....dumb.

Think of it like this if you use the MBC, you aren't raising anything to 16 psi you will be bleeding off some of the boost reference signal that would go the diaphragm on the new gate mod so essentially it's not seeing the 13 psi that would open the gate..You are just manipulating what the gate mod will see in order to not make it open

I don't like the MBC idea if your boost reference is coming from the charge pipes(TIP) because  that is air that goes through the factory boost solenoid and on to the turbo wastegate and then you are screwing with the tables for the factory boost control.

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 04, 2017, 09:51:12 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 09:21:17 PM

I have one air port on the bottom as my reference. The other two are capped (no sealent/thread lock - I talked to support for the company I bought it from, and they said with the manner of bolt, etc. none was needed, could this be an issue with how it is currently?).

Both top ports are open currently, as that is how the instructions stated to do it for a VTA wastegate.

If any of those bottom ports are leaking, you could be bleeding off boost pressure that would otherwise help pressurize the diaphragm and compress the springs (to open the valve). There should also be copper crush washers on both sides of your boost reference banjo fitting. I would use some thread sealer or Loctite (my instructions say blue Loctite) on the plugs, just to make sure you don't have a little leak.

Got it, when I first put it together I asked and was told that it shouldn't leak and no sealent/pipe tape was needed. But, I will get some blue loctite or similar and seal it up tomorrow as well. Better safe than sorry for $7 or so.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 10:09:42 PM

Got it, when I first put it together I asked and was told that it shouldn't leak and no sealent/pipe tape was needed. But, I will get some blue loctite or similar and seal it up tomorrow as well. Better safe than sorry for $7 or so.

Fo shizzle! Blue Loctite or ptfe thread sealant certainly won't hurt, and will give you some added confidence that you have leak free connections. Just don't use red loctite. LOL

Also confirm both of those crush washers are in place whenever you reinstall. I did a TON of on, off, on, off, on, off with all my spring experimentation, and it would be easy to drop or lose one. For me, it was easier to remove the banjo bolt, since the vacuum line was on there so damn tight.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 04, 2017, 10:03:38 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 09:27:20 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 04, 2017, 08:32:00 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 08:25:34 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on December 28, 2016, 05:47:33 PM
Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have a manual controller I am going to use also to dial it in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you familiar enough with data logging and reading your own logs? There are several areas you need to monitor to tune for it.. map, tip, wgdc, rail pressure, and more.

And you need to monitor in real time...on a laptop...after each adjustment...or you can
mess stuff up...

If you are not confident in your ability to adjust the mbc based on what you are reading in the logs then don't do it. You are asking for trouble and most likely give Brad headaches...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My outlook on this...tell me if this makes any sense.

I did not buy the same gate everyone else has. The springs in it are setup for 7,13,and20psi... If I use the 13psi spring and the mbc to adjust the pressure up to about 16 psi. My tune is only setup for 14psi at the moment. So I am not sure how limiting the boost below where the spikes are now is going to cause a problem. Am I thinking right? Or does this not make sense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That 20 psi spring will be too much and we won't reach the pressure needed to open the new gate mod.....And the 13 will want to always have the gate open and then wastegate duty cycle will/can skyrocket and you beat the s*** out of the turbos for low boost....dumb.

Think of it like this if you use the MBC, you aren't raising anything to 16 psi you will be bleeding off some of the boost reference signal that would go the diaphragm on the new gate mod so essentially it's not seeing the 13 psi that would open the gate..You are just manipulating what the gate mod will see in order to not make it open

I don't like the MBC idea if your boost reference is coming from the charge pipes(TIP) because  that is air that goes through the factory boost solenoid and on to the turbo wastegate and then you are screwing with the tables for the factory boost control.

Yeah I understand the 20 is too much and the 13 isn't enough. By using the mbc it blocks the signal I understand that. If this sounds like more work for you I will get different springs, I was just trying to get it done with parts I already have laying around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 04, 2017, 09:51:12 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 09:21:17 PM

I have one air port on the bottom as my reference. The other two are capped (no sealent/thread lock - I talked to support for the company I bought it from, and they said with the manner of bolt, etc. none was needed, could this be an issue with how it is currently?).

Both top ports are open currently, as that is how the instructions stated to do it for a VTA wastegate.

If any of those bottom ports are leaking, you could be bleeding off boost pressure that would otherwise help pressurize the diaphragm and compress the springs (to open the valve). There should also be copper crush washers on both sides of your boost reference banjo fitting. I would use some thread sealer or Loctite (my instructions say blue Loctite) on the plugs, just to make sure you don't have a little leak.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 04, 2017, 09:27:20 PM
My outlook on this...tell me if this makes any sense.

I did not buy the same gate everyone else has. The springs in it are setup for 7,13,and20psi... If I use the 13psi spring and the mbc to adjust the pressure up to about 16 psi. My tune is only setup for 14psi at the moment. So I am not sure how limiting the boost below where the spikes are now is going to cause a problem. Am I thinking right? Or does this not make sense?

See Brad's (AJP Turbo) post #97 regarding MBC.

Can you get additional springs for your gate? I would imagine it would be tricky to dial that in with such a large change in pressure range between your current options. Does your wastegate have the ability to change spring preload (pre-compress the spring)? If so, perhaps you can get away with the 13 psi spring and just crank up the preload to hold it closed to a higher pressure.

Are you working with AJP? A tune is required to modify the throttle to keep it open. If your tune doesn't have that update, it won't work very well because the throttle will close to control MAP which will further increase TIP and cause extra bypass through the boost regulator.

I don't think preload can be changed, I think the tial springs will fit in my gate. But I wanted to see if I could dial it in without buying new springs. Yes ajp is tuning my car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

F8tl you could be right....I think I had one where the more you spun the MBC the more it bled air to atmos.

But you are saying it's more like a restrictor and you change the orifice by spinning the adjuster.

I guess either would work but if we try the MBC I'd rather you hook it to intake manifold boost reference like a source you would use for a boost/vac gauge.

Just know that you will have to do some of the tweaking...I just like to be able to change a tune and you load and go

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 09:12:35 PM
Here are my most recent logs. Rev18&19 Logs are on the 17.40 PSI combo. Rev20 and Rev20_MAPVacuumSource are on 15.95PSI. The latter of the two is with the boost reference on the charge pipe location, the 3 bar sensor right by the throttlebody (TIP sensor I believe?) that is shown in the pictures above. Rev20_ChargePipe3BarVacuum_14_50PSI is on the 14.50 PSI combo, as the name denotes. I am still not the best at looking at logs, but am trying to learn. Any comments anyone wants to make, feel free.

From what i can see in your logs it looks like the 17.4psi combo is opening around 220+ish kpa but only very briefly. . like your just barely tickling the springs open and then it shuts right away.
With the 15.95 combo it seems to be opening on around 215ish kpa and staying open until 5200+ rpm. . . Which does seem to be a little too long to me. Is this what you meant when you say it's hanging open?
This of course is my interpretation from what i exprienced after using the wastegate mod myself and of course every car will respond differently.I would imagine brad has given you more experienced and in depth interpretation of your logs so doubt this is news to you but that's what i'm seeing.
For me it's harder to hear the gate open over the engine's rpm's(or maybe i'm not listening as hard anymore after verifying the mod is working properly for me) but when i let off the throttle during the spike i can ALWAYS hear in snap shut . . might be something to try if you're second guessing the gate opening or not.
Here are my logs before and after the mod-rev 12 10.19. -notice the MAP jump to 220 or more on the 2-3 shift til the throttle brings it back down.
And after the mod-E20 rev4 12.4 -you can see when the gate opens around 205-210kpa and stay in that range til around 4800rpm or so. My car doesn't spike so bad on the 1-2 shift so it doesn't always open.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 04, 2017, 10:28:04 PM
F8tl you could be right....I think I had one where the more you spun the MBC the more it bled air to atmos.

But you are saying it's more like a restrictor and you change the orifice by spinning the adjuster.

I guess either would work but if we try the MBC I'd rather you hook it to intake manifold boost reference like a source you would use for a boost/vac gauge.

Just know that you will have to do some of the tweaking...I just like to be able to change a tune and you load and go

The mbc I have is just a valve with a knob, + boost , -boost... the more you close it the later the gate opens. Same way it would work if it was controlling the boost. I understand what u are saying about changing tunes without adjusting anything. But if I change a tune I would have to change springs in gate regardless. Maybe I will try the mbc and see if it even works. Just curious. I was planning on using intake reference. Where else are you grabbing reference from?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 05, 2017, 05:53:13 AM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 04, 2017, 10:28:04 PM
F8tl you could be right....I think I had one where the more you spun the MBC the more it bled air to atmos.

But you are saying it's more like a restrictor and you change the orifice by spinning the adjuster.

I guess either would work but if we try the MBC I'd rather you hook it to intake manifold boost reference like a source you would use for a boost/vac gauge.

Just know that you will have to do some of the tweaking...I just like to be able to change a tune and you load and go

The mbc I have is just a valve with a knob, + boost , -boost... the more you close it the later the gate opens. Same way it would work if it was controlling the boost. I understand what u are saying about changing tunes without adjusting anything. But if I change a tune I would have to change springs in gate regardless. Maybe I will try the mbc and see if it even works. Just curious. I was planning on using intake reference. Where else are you grabbing reference from?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was grabbing from the signal line coming off the newly installed waste gate. This way, it did not effect the rest of the system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: 8nutz8 on January 04, 2017, 10:40:51 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 04, 2017, 09:12:35 PM
Here are my most recent logs. Rev18&19 Logs are on the 17.40 PSI combo. Rev20 and Rev20_MAPVacuumSource are on 15.95PSI. The latter of the two is with the boost reference on the charge pipe location, the 3 bar sensor right by the throttlebody (TIP sensor I believe?) that is shown in the pictures above. Rev20_ChargePipe3BarVacuum_14_50PSI is on the 14.50 PSI combo, as the name denotes. I am still not the best at looking at logs, but am trying to learn. Any comments anyone wants to make, feel free.

From what i can see in your logs it looks like the 17.4psi combo is opening around 220+ish kpa but only very briefly. . like your just barely tickling the springs open and then it shuts right away.
With the 15.95 combo it seems to be opening on around 215ish kpa and staying open until 5200+ rpm. . . Which does seem to be a little too long to me. Is this what you meant when you say it's hanging open?
This of course is my interpretation from what i exprienced after using the wastegate mod myself and of course every car will respond differently.I would imagine brad has given you more experienced and in depth interpretation of your logs so doubt this is news to you but that's what i'm seeing.
For me it's harder to hear the gate open over the engine's rpm's(or maybe i'm not listening as hard anymore after verifying the mod is working properly for me) but when i let off the throttle during the spike i can ALWAYS hear in snap shut . . might be something to try if you're second guessing the gate opening or not.
Here are my logs before and after the mod-rev 12 10.19. -notice the MAP jump to 220 or more on the 2-3 shift til the throttle brings it back down.
And after the mod-E20 rev4 12.4 -you can see when the gate opens around 205-210kpa and stay in that range til around 4800rpm or so. My car doesn't spike so bad on the 1-2 shift so it doesn't always open.

The main issue seemed to be that my MAP was greater than my desired TIP. On the current combo (14.50 PSI) that seems to be fixed. Brad is sending a revision with a little different fuel, and possibly another .5psi of boost commanded as well as a bit of increased TIP demand, to increase torque (you can see in the last log that the car met the torque demanded and just sort of stopped pushing after that).

He definitely knows what he is doing, so I just let him take the helm and do what he asks of me.

I was looking for a boost reference line directly off the intake ( not intake piping) didn't see anything I could use....

I am putting the wastegate on, was wondering if I could just weld a fitting right on the tube attached to the wastegate. See picture, where the black dot is. Just wondering if this would be good or bad being so close to the wastegate(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170106/6e871f828bb5039fb90cf4c89d077d09.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know for sure, but it seems like that might be too close to the dump valve. Also looking at my TIP pressure, it varies much more (relative to MAP), so it may be a less stable reference. You could try it, and if it doesn't work, you could always cap it and pull from somewhere else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I used a simular 3/8" ID Hose, 1/4" NPT Male for reference. IDK.  Z               
       (http://i.imgur.com/FoO9G1Th.jpg?1)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190688070475?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190688070475?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Quote from: ZSHO on January 06, 2017, 09:24:36 AM
I used a 3/8" ID Hose, 1/4" NPT Male for reference.  Z  (http://i.imgur.com/FoO9G1Th.jpg)
(UPDATE)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190688070475?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190688070475?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

The link or picture you posted must be broken. I can't see it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My original vacuum location was the brake booster vacuum line, which comes right off of the intake and goes the master cylinder. it should have worked pretty well, BUT my gate was being ornery, so I moved it to right under the TIP sensor, since there is a 1/8 NPT threaded hole on the EcoPowerParts pipes in that location.

Brad used the TIP line itself, which is pre-intercooler, and also pictured earlier in the thread. It is a stock reference on the pipe from the rear turbo to the intercooler, which should help with the gate opening since it would have a bit more pressure than any post intercooler references.

IMO, I would ask him to be sure, but would start with that reference. You can run a T off of the stock line back to the charge pipe, and then out to your gate.

As for the gate, is that a knock-off F38? Looks to be, so you should be able to buy TiAL F38 springs for it (I assume its a 38mm), unfotunately you are looking at ~$30 per spring, so make sure you know the gate works first. Would test with the 13PSI setup you have first to make sure the gate opens and what not.

https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=16469&cat=1142&page=1 (https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=16469&cat=1142&page=1)

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/Shop-by-Brand/TiAL-Wastegate-Replacement-Parts-and-Accessories/TiAL-Wastegate-Springs-F38-F40-V44-F46-V60 (http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/Shop-by-Brand/TiAL-Wastegate-Replacement-Parts-and-Accessories/TiAL-Wastegate-Springs-F38-F40-V44-F46-V60)

Just realized from looking at wastegate springs , half of what you pay for with wastgates when you buy name brand is the assortment of springs.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 06, 2017, 09:35:45 AM
My original vacuum location was the brake booster vacuum line, which comes right off of the intake and goes the master cylinder. it should have worked pretty well, BUT my gate was being ornery, so I moved it to right under the TIP sensor, since there is a 1/8 NPT threaded hole on the EcoPowerParts pipes in that location.

Brad used the TIP line itself, which is pre-intercooler, and also pictured earlier in the thread. It is a stock reference on the pipe from the rear turbo to the intercooler, which should help with the gate opening since it would have a bit more pressure than any post intercooler references.

IMO, I would ask him to be sure, but would start with that reference. You can run a T off of the stock line back to the charge pipe, and then out to your gate.

As for the gate, is that a knock-off F38? Looks to be, so you should be able to buy TiAL F38 springs for it (I assume its a 38mm), unfotunately you are looking at ~$30 per spring, so make sure you know the gate works first. Would test with the 13PSI setup you have first to make sure the gate opens and what not.

https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=16469&cat=1142&page=1 (https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=16469&cat=1142&page=1)

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/Shop-by-Brand/TiAL-Wastegate-Replacement-Parts-and-Accessories/TiAL-Wastegate-Springs-F38-F40-V44-F46-V60 (http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/Shop-by-Brand/TiAL-Wastegate-Replacement-Parts-and-Accessories/TiAL-Wastegate-Springs-F38-F40-V44-F46-V60)

Just realized from looking at wastegate springs , half of what you pay for with wastgates when you buy name brand is the assortment of springs.

it is a knock off, not sure of which one. i figured that not being near the heat of the exhaust it really wasn't that big of a deal to not go top of the line. brad and i have talked about reference line placement and decided it should be off the manifold not off the rear turbo tube like everyone else is using. because i plan on dialing the waste gate in with an mbc rather than buy new springs. gonna try this to see if i can get a consistent result first. if it doesn't work then i will regroup and figure out what springs i will need to buy.

i looked last night on the actual intake and didn't see a good spot to attach a reference line directly from the manifold. that is why i am asking about the reference off the tube i posted above. i can weld it myself so it wouldnt cost me a dime.

(http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t597/PerfA_ZN0W/2010-up/ZSHO_T%20connector_zpsl7tofl2d.jpg) (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/PerfA_ZN0W/media/2010-up/ZSHO_T%20connector_zpsl7tofl2d.jpg.html)

Quote from: ZSHO on January 06, 2017, 09:24:36 AM
I used a simular 3/8" ID Hose, 1/4" NPT Male for reference. IDK.  Z               
       (http://i.imgur.com/FoO9G1Th.jpg?1)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190688070475?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190688070475?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Tapatalk doesn't show the pic, computer does.. where did you have this connected?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 06, 2017, 09:46:42 AM

Quote from: ZSHO on January 06, 2017, 09:24:36 AM
I used a simular 3/8" ID Hose, 1/4" NPT Male for reference. IDK.  Z               
       (http://i.imgur.com/FoO9G1Th.jpg?1)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190688070475?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/190688070475?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Tapatalk doesn't show the pic, computer does.. where did you have this connected?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Brake booster vacuum line for reference. Z

For extra reference for anyone interested.

As ZSHO/Myself Have Mentioned in the past/this thread, the vacuum line for the brake booster uses a 3/8" hose, so if tapping that you need a T with 3/8" barbs to insert.

The TIP reference on the piping from the rear turbo to intercooler, uses 1/4" hose, so you would need a T with 1/4" barbs.

For the wastegate itself/ most wastegates/most BOVs they recommend 1/4" hose as well, and that is what the supplied nipples usually support. 6mm hose works as well.

f8tlSHO, my only concern with that location is that with the gate open, it may be too close to the gate and have a pressure drop causing the gate to chatter/oscillate between open and closed. But go ahead and test it out if it isn't too much trouble for ya, would definitely make line routing super easy.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 06, 2017, 10:21:50 AM
For extra reference for anyone interested.

As ZSHO/Myself Have Mentioned in the past/this thread, the vacuum line for the brake booster uses a 3/8" hose, so if tapping that you need a T with 3/8" barbs to insert.

The TIP reference on the piping from the rear turbo to intercooler, uses 1/4" hose, so you would need a T with 1/4" barbs.

For the wastegate itself/ most wastegates/most BOVs they recommend 1/4" hose as well, and that is what the supplied nipples usually support. 6mm hose works as well.

f8tlSHO, my only concern with that location is that with the gate open, it may be too close to the gate and have a pressure drop causing the gate to chatter/oscillate between open and closed. But go ahead and test it out if it isn't too much trouble for ya, would definitely make line routing super easy.

Even easier to take the car in for service. Pop off put noise thingy back on, done.. I just drilled and tapped a hole in the pipe. I will attempt this and see how it goes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great overall Discussion by far,sticky anyone?  Due LMK. Z   :)

Slightly off-topic (as I tend to do), but I'd just like to say that I REALLY appreciate the ingenuity of people on this forum and their willingness to experiment and collaborate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: ZSHO on January 06, 2017, 11:38:22 AM
Great overall Discussion by far,sticky anyone?  Due LMK. Z   :)

I would be more than happy for this to be stickied if you see it fit!

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 06, 2017, 10:25:25 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 06, 2017, 10:21:50 AM
For extra reference for anyone interested.

As ZSHO/Myself Have Mentioned in the past/this thread, the vacuum line for the brake booster uses a 3/8" hose, so if tapping that you need a T with 3/8" barbs to insert.

The TIP reference on the piping from the rear turbo to intercooler, uses 1/4" hose, so you would need a T with 1/4" barbs.

For the wastegate itself/ most wastegates/most BOVs they recommend 1/4" hose as well, and that is what the supplied nipples usually support. 6mm hose works as well.

f8tlSHO, my only concern with that location is that with the gate open, it may be too close to the gate and have a pressure drop causing the gate to chatter/oscillate between open and closed. But go ahead and test it out if it isn't too much trouble for ya, would definitely make line routing super easy.

Even easier to take the car in for service. Pop off put noise thingy back on, done.. I just drilled and tapped a hole in the pipe. I will attempt this and see how it goes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For sure let us know how it works out/post some logs if you can. I am also interested to see how the smaller combination of springs + MBC using the actual pipe as reference will work out. I assume you are going to use the same port, or another on the same pipe for the MBC when that happens?

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 06, 2017, 11:46:20 AM
Slightly off-topic (as I tend to do), but I'd just like to say that I REALLY appreciate the ingenuity of people on this forum and their willingness to experiment and collaborate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I enjoy the tangents! And wholeheartedly second that this forum is great and full of quality people. Glad to be a part of it.

Derfdog15 the port will be used to run to the mbc then to the gate. Only 1 port needed. I will definitely post results and logs for the masses. I still have to get a 1.5" hose to connect to the noise thingy port. I have the tune already from bradley. It snowed here last night, so I have to wait till the roads are all cleaned up to do a "full" log.


(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170106/547a10e72ba260cb8ceb36d5796a9cb6.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 06, 2017, 12:57:41 PM
Derfdog15 the port will be used to run to the mbc then to the gate. Only 1 port needed. I will definitely post results and logs for the masses. I still have to get a 1.5" hose to connect to the noise thingy port. I have the tune already from bradley. It snowed here last night, so I have to wait till the roads are all cleaned up to do a "full" log.


(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170106/547a10e72ba260cb8ceb36d5796a9cb6.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Got it! Good luck. Also for reference, I bought 1.5 feet of hose from Autozone the other day, they apparently sell it by the foot from a 50 ft. roll. It was only $1.59 per foot plus tax, and the guy cut me 2 ft and charged for just one. Pretty awesome IMO.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 06, 2017, 09:02:36 AM
I was looking for a boost reference line directly off the intake ( not intake piping) didn't see anything I could use....

I am putting the wastegate on, was wondering if I could just weld a fitting right on the tube attached to the wastegate. See picture, where the black dot is. Just wondering if this would be good or bad being so close to the wastegate(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170106/6e871f828bb5039fb90cf4c89d077d09.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting flange interfaces on that guy, particularly the connection to the bottom aluminum housing that contains the diaphragm. If you end up with any leaks, maybe consider reassembling with some RTV and thread locker on the screws.

While I wouldn't try using that in a traditional application, it may be just fine in this (much) less severe environment. Definitely interested to watch this evolve.

Do you have additional pictures or a link to the gate you bought? Curious if my idea for a Tial preload adjuster might work for this one as well. If so, might be a less expensive alternative to an auxiliary MBC. Could you take a couple of pictures of the internals as well, when you get a chance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 06, 2017, 01:16:10 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 06, 2017, 09:02:36 AM
I was looking for a boost reference line directly off the intake ( not intake piping) didn't see anything I could use....

I am putting the wastegate on, was wondering if I could just weld a fitting right on the tube attached to the wastegate. See picture, where the black dot is. Just wondering if this would be good or bad being so close to the wastegate(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170106/6e871f828bb5039fb90cf4c89d077d09.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting flange interfaces on that guy, particularly the connection to the bottom aluminum housing that contains the diaphragm. If you end up with any leaks, maybe consider reassembling with some RTV and thread locker on the screws.

While I wouldn't try using that in a traditional application, it may be just fine in this (much) less severe environment. Definitely interested to watch this evolve.

Do you have additional pictures or a link to the gate you bought? Curious if my idea for a Tial preload adjuster might work for this one as well. If so, might be a less expensive alternative to an auxiliary MBC. Could you take a couple of pictures of the internals as well, when you get a chance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I believe it a replica/similar design to the TiAL F38 which is the predecessor to the MV-S MV-R line. The two bolt flange was the design practice a little while ago, then Vband took completely over.

Here is the F38: http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/wastegates/40-f38 (http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/wastegates/40-f38)

Here is the gate he has, I believe: https://www.amazon.com/External-Exhaust-Manifold-Wastegate-Silver/dp/B00N1B66P8/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-2&keywords=38mm+wastegate (https://www.amazon.com/External-Exhaust-Manifold-Wastegate-Silver/dp/B00N1B66P8/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-2&keywords=38mm+wastegate)

here is a precision 38mm gate using the 2 bolt(i think it their current 38mm gate): https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Turbo-External-Wastegate-SPRINGS/dp/B00BNAJNA4/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-1&keywords=38mm+wastegate (https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Turbo-External-Wastegate-SPRINGS/dp/B00BNAJNA4/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-1&keywords=38mm+wastegate)

Precision uses a V-band on the rest of their gates, but 38mm retains a 2 bolt AFAIK.

Nice thing with the two bolt is that there are readily available flanges in whatever material you want, and easy to buy dump-pipes etc. such as: https://www.amazon.com/Rev9Power-Rev9-AC-004-38mm-Wastegate-Dump/dp/B00SA3PLEO/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-3&keywords=38mm+wastegate (https://www.amazon.com/Rev9Power-Rev9-AC-004-38mm-Wastegate-Dump/dp/B00SA3PLEO/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-3&keywords=38mm+wastegate)

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 06, 2017, 01:22:36 PM

I believe it a replica/similar design to the TiAL F38 which is the predecessor to the MV-S MV-R line. The two bolt flange was the design practice a little while ago, then Vband took completely over.

Here is the F38: http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/wastegates/40-f38 (http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/wastegates/40-f38)

Here is the gate he has, I believe: https://www.amazon.com/External-Exhaust-Manifold-Wastegate-Silver/dp/B00N1B66P8/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-2&keywords=38mm+wastegate (https://www.amazon.com/External-Exhaust-Manifold-Wastegate-Silver/dp/B00N1B66P8/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-2&keywords=38mm+wastegate)

Got it. Thanks, derf!

If that's the case, it looks like the generic doesn't have the M10x1 threaded port in the center of the cap like the F38/MV-S units have. Although, if the center springs are the same diameter, it wouldn't take much modification to get it to work if internal clearances are sufficient... interesting. I'll keep this in mind as I go through my feasibility review on the MV-S. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Man this quoting bizness really makes a thread ugly LOL!

Miwiau
i already have the mbc from a previous turbo project, so its no additional cost for me.

[/quote]

I believe it a replica/similar design to the TiAL F38 which is the predecessor to the MV-S MV-R line. The two bolt flange was the design practice a little while ago, then Vband took completely over.

Here is the F38: http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/wastegates/40-f38 (http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/wastegates/40-f38)

Here is the gate he has, I believe: https://www.amazon.com/External-Exhaust-Manifold-Wastegate-Silver/dp/B00N1B66P8/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-2&keywords=38mm+wastegate (https://www.amazon.com/External-Exhaust-Manifold-Wastegate-Silver/dp/B00N1B66P8/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-2&keywords=38mm+wastegate)

here is a precision 38mm gate using the 2 bolt(i think it their current 38mm gate): https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Turbo-External-Wastegate-SPRINGS/dp/B00BNAJNA4/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-1&keywords=38mm+wastegate (https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Turbo-External-Wastegate-SPRINGS/dp/B00BNAJNA4/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-1&keywords=38mm+wastegate)

Precision uses a V-band on the rest of their gates, but 38mm retains a 2 bolt AFAIK.

Nice thing with the two bolt is that there are readily available flanges in whatever material you want, and easy to buy dump-pipes etc. such as: https://www.amazon.com/Rev9Power-Rev9-AC-004-38mm-Wastegate-Dump/dp/B00SA3PLEO/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-3&keywords=38mm+wastegate (https://www.amazon.com/Rev9Power-Rev9-AC-004-38mm-Wastegate-Dump/dp/B00SA3PLEO/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1483726767&sr=1-3&keywords=38mm+wastegate)
[/quote]

yes this is the one i bought off of amazon. i will see if i can take some pictures tonight with the lid popped off

Does anyone work anymore!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 06, 2017, 02:16:42 PM
Miwiau
i already have the mbc from a previous turbo project, so its no additional cost for me.

Cool, yeah, I was just thinking for the next guy/gal who stumbles on this thread. :)

Quote from: SHOdded on January 06, 2017, 02:10:51 PM
Man this quoting bizness really makes a thread ugly LOL!

Sorry, Manu. I went back and cleaned up my last ugly quote. I'm usually better about trimming my quotes, but you caught me in a moment of laziness. ;)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 06, 2017, 02:20:03 PM
Does anyone work anymore!?

Sometimes all this thinking and cleaning up messy quotes for Manu feels like work. :P


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 06, 2017, 02:20:03 PM
Does anyone work anymore!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have downtime every-time I wait for MATLAB to spit out more plots, and simulate more data...

Well that and a short attention span...

You are a naughty boy, MiWiAu, good thing XMas is already over, and you have many many days to repent ;)

I do gotta say it is awesome to see what someone can tweak on one person's idea to make it work. Great stuff


Also, I see various parts and this and that mentioned throughout the thread. Anyone give a consolidated list to give a good idea of what parts are involved/need to be bought. Makes Putting together a budget for it a little easier.

Quote from: FearlessAZ on January 06, 2017, 04:02:45 PM
Also, I see various parts and this and that mentioned throughout the thread. Anyone give a consolidated list to give a good idea of what parts are involved/need to be bought. Makes Putting together a budget for it a little easier.

I put together a detailed list for my initial install on AJP's original thread. My XSport install is Post #66, but many of the same parts could be used for the SHO. I'll update it once I sort out my boost reference experiment.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6526.msg108713.html#msg108713 (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6526.msg108713.html#msg108713)

Thing is, everyone is using slightly different methods/parts, and putting their own personal touch their installs, which makes it difficult to put together a universal list.

For the basics, you need a wastegate (with a way to adjust it for your boost levels - i.e. spring options), a way to connect the wastegate to your intake plumbing, a boost reference to add to the wastegate, and a compatible tune.

Quote from: FearlessAZ on January 06, 2017, 04:02:45 PM
I do gotta say it is awesome to see what someone can tweak on one person's idea to make it work. Great stuff


Also, I see various parts and this and that mentioned throughout the thread. Anyone give a consolidated list to give a good idea of what parts are involved/need to be bought. Makes Putting together a budget for it a little easier.

Here is my parts list, with links to reference, of what I bought

70 degree bend aluminum pipe, 1.75" OD -- http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175 (http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175)
1.75" OD stainless steel 'joiner' pipe -- http://www.siliconeintakes.com/turbo-piping/intercooler-pipe-fabrication-p-131.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/turbo-piping/intercooler-pipe-fabrication-p-131.html)
Hump connector and t-bolts -- http://www.siliconeintakes.com/hump-hose/turbo-coupler-p-428.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/hump-hose/turbo-coupler-p-428.html) and 2x http://www.siliconeintakes.com/t-bolt-clamp/compressor-tbolt-p-107.html (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/t-bolt-clamp/compressor-tbolt-p-107.html)
Vband for the TiAL (supplied with wastegate) -- https://www.importimageracing.com/tial-mvs-38mm-v-band-external-wastegate-universal.html#header-search (https://www.importimageracing.com/tial-mvs-38mm-v-band-external-wastegate-universal.html#header-search) -- they offer a 5% off code many times, as well as free shipping with the code, best price I found on a new in box TiAL

I needed the aluminum pipe and hump hose due to the EPP charge pipes being aluminum and wanted to mate the gate to them.

I initially grabbed vacuum reference from the brake booster line (which is pictured earlier on I believe).

I am now grabbing vacuum from the port, under the TIP sensor, on the EPP charge pipes

This replaced my cross, from above with a T that goes to my BOV and boost gauge from the current T on my brake booster line (it is remote mounted with a 3/8" line connecting the two T's.

The other option for a vacuum reference for the gate, is the TIP sensor location on the charge pipes between the rear turbo and the intercooler, which I believe is also pictured.

You will need a suitable length of 1/4" or 6mm vacuum hose to run between your source and the gate as well. I bought 6mm hose form Silicone Intakes that is pretty good. I also bought 1/4" hose locally at autozone for about the same price, and also of good quality.

Any other questions just let us know!

Quote from: FearlessAZ on January 06, 2017, 04:02:45 PM
I do gotta say it is awesome to see what someone can tweak on one person's idea to make it work. Great stuff


Also, I see various parts and this and that mentioned throughout the thread. Anyone give a consolidated list to give a good idea of what parts are involved/need to be bought. Makes Putting together a budget for it a little easier.

Once I get mine figured out I can put together a list for the people that don't want to buy the expensive parts.. lol..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 06, 2017, 10:25:25 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 06, 2017, 10:21:50 AM
For extra reference for anyone interested.

As ZSHO/Myself Have Mentioned in the past/this thread, the vacuum line for the brake booster uses a 3/8" hose, so if tapping that you need a T with 3/8" barbs to insert.

The TIP reference on the piping from the rear turbo to intercooler, uses 1/4" hose, so you would need a T with 1/4" barbs.

For the wastegate itself/ most wastegates/most BOVs they recommend 1/4" hose as well, and that is what the supplied nipples usually support. 6mm hose works as well.

f8tlSHO, my only concern with that location is that with the gate open, it may be too close to the gate and have a pressure drop causing the gate to chatter/oscillate between open and closed. But go ahead and test it out if it isn't too much trouble for ya, would definitely make line routing super easy.

Even easier to take the car in for service. Pop off put noise thingy back on, done.. I just drilled and tapped a hole in the pipe. I will attempt this and see how it goes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what I want, it has to look nice and be secure.

AJP's original design left me wanting a bit more in the aesthetics department. (no offense)

Between than and a lack of creativity/fabrication skills has left me without this much needed mod.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 06, 2017, 11:56:53 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 06, 2017, 10:25:25 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 06, 2017, 10:21:50 AM
For extra reference for anyone interested.

As ZSHO/Myself Have Mentioned in the past/this thread, the vacuum line for the brake booster uses a 3/8" hose, so if tapping that you need a T with 3/8" barbs to insert.

The TIP reference on the piping from the rear turbo to intercooler, uses 1/4" hose, so you would need a T with 1/4" barbs.

For the wastegate itself/ most wastegates/most BOVs they recommend 1/4" hose as well, and that is what the supplied nipples usually support. 6mm hose works as well.

f8tlSHO, my only concern with that location is that with the gate open, it may be too close to the gate and have a pressure drop causing the gate to chatter/oscillate between open and closed. But go ahead and test it out if it isn't too much trouble for ya, would definitely make line routing super easy.

Even easier to take the car in for service. Pop off put noise thingy back on, done.. I just drilled and tapped a hole in the pipe. I will attempt this and see how it goes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what I want, it has to look nice and be secure.

AJP's original design left me wanting a bit more in the aesthetics department. (no offense)

Between than and a lack of creativity/fabrication skills has left me without this much needed mod.

fabrication is one of my favorite departments


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here are some pictures of what I have planned, basically ready to put on. Just need to get the 1.5" hose.

Do the name brand wastegates have a loose valve seat? This one does, when you attach the tube to gate it goes in between. Puts a small preload on the valve when you tighten down on it. I guess ones that have a v band wouldn't have a 2 piece design. The valve and seat are leaking a little, pulled it apart so I can lap them together. Some roughness on the seat that is causing it not to seal properly.




(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/4af7f4d847a98553e2b06341966951d7.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/873f223e2057a39e4a54359dc949b827.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/d9caec222398886967516efbaf21f7da.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/1c9778529102415ef5caa68eb00ea6ec.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/7385aeef2328665c56981067f30658b0.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/d28e3a6fc356ded76d2285f6ba4df1b4.jpg)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks almost identical on the inside. And yes the valve seat is removable. Make sure you have the longer end inserted, with the actual V-band like portion on the bottom so that it sits against the other pipe when mounted, that way when you tighten the flange it is pushed in and creates a seal.

Looking at your first two pictures it appears your flanges are not identical? Possibly only one direction of install works and it is reversed? That looks to be why you have a leak. May need to grind the welds and flip the flange on your dump pipe by 180 degrees. TO check if that is the case, try and flip the wastegate connection in the current configuration.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 07, 2017, 05:58:01 PM
Looks almost identical on the inside. And yes the valve seat is removable. Make sure you have the longer end inserted, with the actual V-band like portion on the bottom so that it sits against the other pipe when mounted, that way when you tighten the flange it is pushed in and creates a seal.

Looking at your first two pictures it appears your flanges are not identical? Possibly only one direction of install works and it is reversed? That looks to be why you have a leak. May need to grind the welds and flip the flange on your dump pipe by 180 degrees. TO check if that is the case, try and flip the wastegate connection in the current configuration.

The seat has burrs on it, when you hold it up to the light you can see where the valve is sitting on the burrs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/85823920cd84a786d4bccbed4fce62ea.jpg)
Look at all of the little bumps on the seat, that is what is keeping it from sealing. That's the thing with the China made stuff. U may have to do the finish work cause they don't spend the time doing it. De burring  and this sort of thing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 07, 2017, 06:18:37 PM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/85823920cd84a786d4bccbed4fce62ea.jpg)
Look at all of the little bumps on the seat, that is what is keeping it from sealing. That's the thing with the China made stuff. U may have to do the finish work cause they don't spend the time doing it. De burring  and this sort of thing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotcha, well good luck with it, I guess I payed a price for the convenience of not having to do anything other than weld my pipes.

Do keep us updated!

Interesting... my wastegate was flawless...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 07, 2017, 07:48:35 PM
Interesting... my wastegate was flawless...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I bought this one knowing that I might have to do some work to it. I have the technology to machine up a new valve or seat. So it's not a big deal. 60$ compared to 250$ I don't mind putting some time into it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just did a quick cleanup job with some lapping compound and my drill... much better seal... I think I am gonna call it good. Hopefully have time to get the other hose tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 07, 2017, 08:56:57 PM
Just did a quick cleanup job with some lapping compound and my drill... much better seal... I think I am gonna call it good. Hopefully have time to get the other hose tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hope you can get all set soon! Also random question, is that a Hallman? I have one for my mustang build is why I ask.

As for hose, I went to autozone today, to get another 1.5' foot of hose, to go from the TIP reference to the wastegate, so I could leave some extra slack in the hose. It took ~2 minutes to get the hose, so hopefully it is as easy for you.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 07, 2017, 09:27:07 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 07, 2017, 08:56:57 PM
Just did a quick cleanup job with some lapping compound and my drill... much better seal... I think I am gonna call it good. Hopefully have time to get the other hose tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hope you can get all set soon! Also random question, is that a Hallman? I have one for my mustang build is why I ask.

As for hose, I went to autozone today, to get another 1.5' foot of hose, to go from the TIP reference to the wastegate, so I could leave some extra slack in the hose. It took ~2 minutes to get the hose, so hopefully it is as easy for you.

Yes I believe it is a hallman, I bought it back in 2010 from a buddy to use on my mustang turbo build that never came to life... my son came in 2011 and my daughter in 2014... so garage time has taken a pretty big hit. Still have a mustang but it is missing boost. When you said you got hose a couple posts ago I thought you were talking about the 1.5" hose to connect to the intake. I wonder if lowes sells anything that would work. I have enough hose for my reference line, as long as this crazy idea works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 07, 2017, 09:39:34 PM
Yes I believe it is a hallman, I bought it back in 2010 from a buddy to use on my mustang turbo build that never came to life... my son came in 2011 and my daughter in 2014... so garage time has taken a pretty big hit. Still have a mustang but it is missing boost. When you said you got hose a couple posts ago I thought you were talking about the 1.5" hose to connect to the intake. I wonder if lowes sells anything that would work. I have enough hose for my reference line, as long as this crazy idea works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The hard hose that OE uses (for the brake booster anyway) is pretty hard to find anywhere. Lowes/Home Depot/Menards all sell 1/4" ID hose and 3/8" ID hose. The brake booster line is 3/8" ID. TIP is 1/4" ID.

Just curious why you keep mentioning needing an intake line? Per the hallman instructions (http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/Pro%20Series%20Installation%20Instructions%20ld.pdf (http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/Pro%20Series%20Installation%20Instructions%20ld.pdf)) and the TiAL Instructions (http://www.tialsport.com/documents/MV-Install-Guide.jpg (http://www.tialsport.com/documents/MV-Install-Guide.jpg)) you should only need two pieces of line from your dump pipe reference.

Line 1 going from the port you tapped to the input port on the MBC. Line 2 going from the MBC output to one of the bottom air ports on the wastegate. Which you have already done

Or are you talking about the radiator hose to actually mount it on the noise maker? If that is the case, I didn't use one, so am of little help, BUT, you should be able to take the dump pipe you have (and possibly the intercooler to intake noisemaker pipe) to any autoparts store and get a section of radiator hose that will work, along with hose clamps. You would just find a radiator hose that works, and choose one with the appropriate bend, then cut it down to size.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 12:34:26 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 07, 2017, 09:39:34 PM
Yes I believe it is a hallman, I bought it back in 2010 from a buddy to use on my mustang turbo build that never came to life... my son came in 2011 and my daughter in 2014... so garage time has taken a pretty big hit. Still have a mustang but it is missing boost. When you said you got hose a couple posts ago I thought you were talking about the 1.5" hose to connect to the intake. I wonder if lowes sells anything that would work. I have enough hose for my reference line, as long as this crazy idea works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The hard hose that OE uses (for the brake booster anyway) is pretty hard to find anywhere. Lowes/Home Depot/Menards all sell 1/4" ID hose and 3/8" ID hose. The brake booster line is 3/8" ID. TIP is 1/4" ID.

Just curious why you keep mentioning needing an intake line? Per the hallman instructions (http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/Pro%20Series%20Installation%20Instructions%20ld.pdf (http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/Pro%20Series%20Installation%20Instructions%20ld.pdf)) and the TiAL Instructions (http://www.tialsport.com/documents/MV-Install-Guide.jpg (http://www.tialsport.com/documents/MV-Install-Guide.jpg)) you should only need two pieces of line from your dump pipe reference.

Line 1 going from the port you tapped to the input port on the MBC. Line 2 going from the MBC output to one of the bottom air ports on the wastegate. Which you have already done

Or are you talking about the radiator hose to actually mount it on the noise maker? If that is the case, I didn't use one, so am of little help, BUT, you should be able to take the dump pipe you have (and possibly the intercooler to intake noisemaker pipe) to any autoparts store and get a section of radiator hose that will work, along with hose clamps. You would just find a radiator hose that works, and choose one with the appropriate bend, then cut it down to size.

Yes I am talking about the 1.5" hose that connects the gate to intake. I just either need to get the rad hose and cut it down or find a 3" long piece somewhere to connect it to intake. Not talking about the boost reference line, got that taken care of with the mbc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck! Worst case you could always get a section of silicon coupler and cut it down to size as well, from somewhere like https://www.siliconeintakes.com/ (https://www.siliconeintakes.com/)

But that would require a lot more waiting. I am actually pretty excited to see how your gate ends up working.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 08, 2017, 12:47:26 PM
Yes I am talking about the 1.5" hose that connects the gate to intake. I just either need to get the rad hose and cut it down or find a 3" long piece somewhere to connect it to intake. Not talking about the boost reference line, got that taken care of with the mbc

Just PM'd you (I think... Tapatalk is weird).

I have an extra 1.5"x3" silicone coupler that I didn't use with my install.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Love to see the forum members helping each other out!

Small Update on my gate mod. I updated the hose from the wastegate to the TIP sensor reference. Used 1.4" ID Fuel Line from Autozone ($1.70 for 1.5 foot) as it allowed for me to leave a bit more slack. I also put blue thread seal on my wastegate air port plugs and the actual hose barb connector the gate as well.

Sent the logs to Brad just now (thought I sent them earlier but forgot to attach the logs, for like the 4th time).

Logs attached here as well.

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 06:05:59 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 08, 2017, 12:47:26 PM
Yes I am talking about the 1.5" hose that connects the gate to intake. I just either need to get the rad hose and cut it down or find a 3" long piece somewhere to connect it to intake. Not talking about the boost reference line, got that taken care of with the mbc

Just PM'd you (I think... Tapatalk is weird).

I have an extra 1.5"x3" silicone coupler that I didn't use with my install.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks miwiau!! Just so u guys know, he wouldn't let me pay him for the hose. Only downside, you guys will have to wait a couple days for a log.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 08, 2017, 06:38:19 PM
Thanks miwiau!! Just so u guys know, he wouldn't let me pay him for the hose. Only downside, you guys will have to wait a couple days for a log.

No problem. Just pay it forward to another forum member when you have the opportunity. :) I needed to bank some karma! Haha

It will be there Wednesday. PM'd you the tracking number.

P.S. Next time, wait until I don't have any active "for sale" posts before you remind everyone how big my soft spot is. LOL. J/K



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 06:57:49 PM

No problem. Just pay it forward to another forum member when you have the opportunity. :) I needed to bank some karma! Haha

It will be there Wednesday. PM'd you the tracking number.

P.S. Next time, wait until I don't have any active "for sale" posts before you remind everyone how big my soft spot is. LOL. J/K



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In all honesty, knowing what silicon connectors cost, if I was a potential buyer of one of your fine wares, I would be less likely to haggle seeing the good you've done here. If that go pro doesn't sell before I get my next paycheck and a few bills taken care of I'll be PMing you my address and paypal so you can send me an invoice.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 06:12:58 PM
I also put blue thread seal on my wastegate air port plugs and the actual hose barb connector the gate as well.

Just curious, did the gate sound any different after your line change and port sealing? Probably pretty low likelihood that you were leaking, but cheap/easy insurance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 07:00:42 PM

In all honesty, knowing what silicon connectors cost, if I was a potential buyer of one of your fine wares, I would be less likely to haggle seeing the good you've done here. If that go pro doesn't sell before I get my next paycheck and a few bills taken care of I'll be PMing you my address and paypal so you can send me an invoice.

Haha, thanks, derf. :) Any publicity is good publicity, they say. LOL

Now, get back on topic before Z yells at you!! ;)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 07:01:45 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 06:12:58 PM
I also put blue thread seal on my wastegate air port plugs and the actual hose barb connector the gate as well.

Just curious, did the gate sound any different after your line change and port sealing? Probably pretty low likelihood that you were leaking, but cheap/easy insurance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't notice any differences, which is kinda what I expected, the NPT stuff is tapered so it should have a pretty good seal on its own. You can see in the logs that it is still working amazingly. From my last rev Brad is thinking I am teetering on the edge of maxing out the stock fueling capabilities. That said these logs are in below freezing weather, so this would have a lot more margin in the warm, but I really want the HPFP to come out soon (even though I don't want to handle the price tag - looks like HPFP + Injectors +In-tank fuel pump upgrade will be close to 4-5K in all honesty).

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 07:03:55 PM

Haha, thanks, derf. :) Any publicity is good publicity, they say. LOL

Now, get back on topic before Z yells at you!! ;)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haha already ahead of ya, though I believe the silicon couplers are on topic, and go-pros are always on topic cause then we could get videos of that whoosh.

Derf,

I would hold off on the in tank pump and injectors so that would lighten the load on the fuel system upgrade....You could simply do the hpfp and see where that takes you.

And you've been emailed and have a nice screenshot I sent you.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 08, 2017, 07:16:44 PM
Derf,

I would hold off on the in tank pump and injectors so that would lighten the load on the fuel system upgrade....You could simply do the hpfp and see where that takes you.

And you've been emailed and have a nice screenshot I sent you.

You the man, I probably asked way more questions than necessary, but the screen shot is lovely! Attached here for anyone interested.

Sounds like a plan on the fuel system, start with the HPFP and see where that can take us, then go from there. Definitely will lighten the load a bit.

I am going to start working on scheduling some Dyno time, to get a few pulls in on the car, I would not be surprised to see 400/400 or more on the rollers, IDK if that's  optimistic or not.

As for the future of the car, looks like the tune is basically ironed out, until there is a bit more fuel margin on the stock setup in the warmer months.

Then mod list will be HPFP, ATP Turbos, and custom FMIC. ATPs and HPFP may switch places depending on my marvelous tuners input (Ahem AJPTurbo...seriously guys, he is amazing).

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 07:30:55 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 08, 2017, 07:16:44 PM
Derf,

I would hold off on the in tank pump and injectors so that would lighten the load on the fuel system upgrade....You could simply do the hpfp and see where that takes you.

And you've been emailed and have a nice screenshot I sent you.

You the man, I probably asked way more questions than necessary, but the screen shot is lovely! Attached here for anyone interested.

Sounds like a plan on the fuel system, start with the HPFP and see where that can take us, then go from there. Definitely will lighten the load a bit.

I am going to start working on scheduling some Dyno time, to get a few pulls in on the car, I would not be surprised to see 400/400 or more on the rollers, IDK if that's  optimistic or not.

As for the future of the car, looks like the tune is basically ironed out, until there is a bit more fuel margin on the stock setup in the warmer months.

Then mod list will be HPFP, ATP Turbos, and custom FMIC. ATPs and HPFP may switch places depending on my marvelous tuners input (Ahem AJPTurbo...seriously guys, he is amazing).

I'm not a good log reader by any means but that looks pretty steady.. how much boost in psi are you commanding?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Derf with your spark of 17-20 degrees and 16 psi on e20 i am going to rough estimate 400whp and 500wtq if its a dynojet similar to what i used...but i dont know the specific model

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 08, 2017, 07:35:44 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 07:30:55 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 08, 2017, 07:16:44 PM
Derf,

I would hold off on the in tank pump and injectors so that would lighten the load on the fuel system upgrade....You could simply do the hpfp and see where that takes you.

And you've been emailed and have a nice screenshot I sent you.

You the man, I probably asked way more questions than necessary, but the screen shot is lovely! Attached here for anyone interested.

Sounds like a plan on the fuel system, start with the HPFP and see where that can take us, then go from there. Definitely will lighten the load a bit.

I am going to start working on scheduling some Dyno time, to get a few pulls in on the car, I would not be surprised to see 400/400 or more on the rollers, IDK if that's  optimistic or not.

As for the future of the car, looks like the tune is basically ironed out, until there is a bit more fuel margin on the stock setup in the warmer months.

Then mod list will be HPFP, ATP Turbos, and custom FMIC. ATPs and HPFP may switch places depending on my marvelous tuners input (Ahem AJPTurbo...seriously guys, he is amazing).

I'm not a good log reader by any means but that looks pretty steady.. how much boost in psi are you commanding?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That tune was desired tip of 207 kpa so about 15 psi

A few of his key comments on this log:

"I see you had some traction problems lol" - Extremely true, in similar temperature with a throttle closed tune, the car hooked much more of the bat, which tells me there are significant torque gains to be had from this mod. I have yet to dyno my car, but I expect to have a good amount of torque when I do.

"Your fuel pressure on the multi gear was nice and I think you are hitting about 16 psi and E20 so not bad...The fuel pressure dropped to about 1300 while spooling up on the 3rd gear pull....You were at about 16 psi at 3k RPM and it spooled up really fast so even though the boost didn't really spike it still ramped up fast and that's what kills rail pressure.....You probably are hitting 15 psi well below 3k but you started that log kinda high in the RPM."

Again, he is spot on. He is happy with fuel pressure, so that makes me feel good, and I know the tune is safe, since we are in frigid below freezing temps. Definitely a safe track tune. And I usually log my 3rd gear pulls from 2k RPM (which is what he asks), but this one was closer to 3k as the starting point, so we missed the boost ramp up on the 3rd gear pull. Still everything looks safe, and I am extremely pleased.

Overall, I am super happy with the way this car is going.

To amend my previous post, mods in order of necessity will be FMIC, ATP Turbos, then HPFP, since the FMIC will benefit stock turbos and the upgraded ones. With ATPs due to increased efficiency, we can run same power at lower boost (this is why I check with Brad on mods now, he knows what he is doing for sure!). Finally, HPFP we can bump E percentage or increase boost on the current set up. After that who knows.

Some day I will do coilovers, but I DD the SHO in all weather conditions, so lowering it may be detrimental in the winter, and I am too lazy to change ride height and realign for different weather. But one day the SHO will be a 3 season DD and I'll have a more winter oriented beater (or who knows, could be an ecoboost Expedition/Explorer). At that point I can do coilovers and set it and forget it. However, for the at most .3 seconds that the coilovers would gain, it is money better spend elsewhere I believe.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 08, 2017, 07:38:02 PM
Derf with your spark of 17-20 degrees and 16 psi on e20 i am going to rough estimate 400whp and 500wtq if its a dynojet similar to what i used...but i dont know the specific model

That's a WHOLE lotta torque, getting me excited now!

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 07:47:03 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 08, 2017, 07:38:02 PM
Derf with your spark of 17-20 degrees and 16 psi on e20 i am going to rough estimate 400whp and 500wtq if its a dynojet similar to what i used...but i dont know the specific model

That's a WHOLE lotta torque, getting me excited now!

Dag yo! Makes me even more curious what's so different betw the SHO and XSport where I can only get ~10deg advance. Maybe just the extra weight and higher aerodynamic loads.

Good on you guys for kicking so much ass!

If you can get a stock log on the dyno as well, that would be pretty sweet. At my local shop, they will do 3 pulls for $90 or $100/ hr. If they don't dilly dally with strapping you down, you should easily be able to get through multiple pulls on two tunes and not exceed an hour, since no additional external instrumentation is required. :)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 07:56:06 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 07:47:03 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 08, 2017, 07:38:02 PM
Derf with your spark of 17-20 degrees and 16 psi on e20 i am going to rough estimate 400whp and 500wtq if its a dynojet similar to what i used...but i dont know the specific model

That's a WHOLE lotta torque, getting me excited now!

Dag yo! Makes me even more curious what's so different betw the SHO and XSport where I can only get ~10deg advance. Maybe just the extra weight and higher aerodynamic loads.

Good on you guys for kicking so much ass!

If you can get a stock log on the dyno as well, that would be pretty sweet. At my local shop, they will do 3 pulls for $90 or $100/ hr. If they don't dilly dally with strapping you down, you should easily be able to get through multiple pulls on two tunes and not exceed an hour, since no additional external instrumentation is required. :)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For stock logs, atleast on my car, its more of the hardware inaccuracy that would cause an issue. I can swap to the 2 bar, and use the fully stock tune or use a "stock tune" that accounts for the mods, but either way the wastegate mod will be there, TiAL BOV will be there (so stock 2bar tune most likely would throw a fit). Downpipes are there and catless (again stock 2 bartune will get pissy), and I won't be swapping my CAI on the dyno either. So it seems like it would be kinda a mish mash. The shop told me, when we last spoke, that the rate they charge is $100 per three pulls for just straight dyno sessions, so stock logs would cost extra as well. I think with the number of SHOs we have seen stock logs of, and the E20 that I run (which on a stock 2bar tune, would not fair the best IMO) it would be more hassle to get them. I should have dyno'd it when I first got it.

Also for anyone interested, they use a DynoJet 424 with linked roller. The shop in question does a lot of turbo fab work, and is the same shop I plan to have do the custom FMIC ( http://www.fathousefab.com/services/dyno-tuning/ (http://www.fathousefab.com/services/dyno-tuning/) ). They also have done some work on GTRs etc, so they know what they are doing when it comes to dynoing AWD.

If I have the time, and people want it, I may be able to load the "stock" tune adjustments that I had in case of gas issue on the road, which would have BOVs turned off, rear O2s off, and 3 bar transfer function, and get a comparison of the car with the mods but no spark advance, boost advance, etc. I will talk to them in a bit more detail and see what kinda price I can work out.

Also, as far as the spark, part of that is the E20, the E blends LOVE spark. we had to raise the stock spark limit due to the E, and due to the cold air I don't have to worry about the IAT going over 150 and causing spark limit to be lower. But it is odd that the Xsport doesn't like spark advance. Have you done the knock sensor wire mod? Just curious. Also, have you done any experimenting with E blend, my spark was a LOT lower on 93, like closer to the 10-12 degree range if I remember correctly, so honestly 10 degrees seems pretty normal for 93 in that case.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 08:03:18 PM

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 07:56:06 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 07:47:03 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 08, 2017, 07:38:02 PM
Derf with your spark of 17-20 degrees and 16 psi on e20 i am going to rough estimate 400whp and 500wtq if its a dynojet similar to what i used...but i dont know the specific model

That's a WHOLE lotta torque, getting me excited now!

Dag yo! Makes me even more curious what's so different betw the SHO and XSport where I can only get ~10deg advance. Maybe just the extra weight and higher aerodynamic loads.

Good on you guys for kicking so much ass!

If you can get a stock log on the dyno as well, that would be pretty sweet. At my local shop, they will do 3 pulls for $90 or $100/ hr. If they don't dilly dally with strapping you down, you should easily be able to get through multiple pulls on two tunes and not exceed an hour, since no additional external instrumentation is required. :)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For stock logs, atleast on my car, its more of the hardware inaccuracy that would cause an issue. I can swap to the 2 bar, and use the fully stock tune or use a "stock tune" that accounts for the mods, but either way the wastegate mod will be there, TiAL BOV will be there (so stock 2bar tune most likely would throw a fit). Downpipes are there and catless (again stock 2 bartune will get pissy), and I won't be swapping my CAI on the dyno either. So it seems like it would be kinda a mish mash. The shop told me, when we last spoke, that the rate they charge is $100 per three pulls for just straight dyno sessions, so stock logs would cost extra as well. I think with the number of SHOs we have seen stock logs of, and the E20 that I run (which on a stock 2bar tune, would not fair the best IMO) it would be more hassle to get them. I should have dyno'd it when I first got it.

Also for anyone interested, they use a DynoJet 424 with linked roller. The shop in question does a lot of turbo fab work, and is the same shop I plan to have do the custom FMIC ( http://www.fathousefab.com/services/dyno-tuning/ (http://www.fathousefab.com/services/dyno-tuning/) ). They also have done some work on GTRs etc, so they know what they are doing when it comes to dynoing AWD.

If I have the time, and people want it, I may be able to load the "stock" tune adjustments that I had in case of gas issue on the road, which would have BOVs turned off, rear O2s off, and 3 bar transfer function, and get a comparison of the car with the mods but no spark advance, boost advance, etc. I will talk to them in a bit more detail and see what kinda price I can work out.

Also, as far as the spark, part of that is the E20, the E blends LOVE spark. we had to raise the stock spark limit due to the E, and due to the cold air I don't have to worry about the IAT going over 150 and causing spark limit to be lower. But it is odd that the Xsport doesn't like spark advance. Have you done the knock sensor wire mod? Just curious. Also, have you done any experimenting with E blend, my spark was a LOT lower on 93, like closer to the 10-12 degree range if I remember correctly, so honestly 10 degrees seems pretty normal for 93 in that case.

Not sure where my advance is but I have good gas in my area... car likes more spark I know that from what ajp says.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No E-xperimentation for me. This is a DD, and my wife drives it when I'm out of town for work. I worry enough that she'll put the right fuel in, so I don't want to make it any more complex for her.

I did the knock sensor wire fix early on when I was working with Torrie to try and bring down knock. No discernible difference pre/post mod for me.

I'm still happy where I'm at with my AJP tunes for a 4700lb beast (not including my flub).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 08:39:57 PM
No E-xperimentation for me. This is a DD, and my wife drives it when I'm out of town for work. I worry enough that she'll put the right fuel in, so I don't want to make it any more complex for her.

I did the knock sensor wire fix early on when I was working with Torrie to try and bring down knock. No discernible difference pre/post mod for me.

I'm still happy where I'm at with my AJP tunes for a 4700lb beast (not including my flub).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotcha, definitely makes sense.

Also, small update, cause I got curious. The 0-60 on my multi gear pull (in 17.6 degree ambient) was 4.78 seconds, and as you can see in the attached screenshot, I was not at full boost in 1st or 2nd due to traction issues (slipped almost all the way to third). That alone tells me the car is much much quicker as it is now.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 10:20:50 PM

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 08:39:57 PM
No E-xperimentation for me. This is a DD, and my wife drives it when I'm out of town for work. I worry enough that she'll put the right fuel in, so I don't want to make it any more complex for her.

I did the knock sensor wire fix early on when I was working with Torrie to try and bring down knock. No discernible difference pre/post mod for me.

I'm still happy where I'm at with my AJP tunes for a 4700lb beast (not including my flub).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotcha, definitely makes sense.

Also, small update, cause I got curious. The 0-60 on my multi gear pull (in 17.6 degree ambient) was 4.78 seconds, and as you can see in the attached screenshot, I was not at full boost in 1st or 2nd due to traction issues (slipped almost all the way to third). That alone tells me the car is much much quicker as it is now.

Yeah that traction thing sucks, I have the same problem, first gear gets jacked by traction control all the time. I wish it could be turned off by default instead of being on...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On my car (2015 Performance Package) I can turn traction all the way off. When I'm at the track, or logging in temperatures a bit warmer ~45 or higher, I turn it all the way off to keep it from cutting boost. Car still spins sometimes, but it doesn't pull power. But at temperatures cooler than that, especially below freezing, I leave it on since it is safer, and gives me a little extra safety if the car tries to kick out when I go WOT.

I think there was experimentation in the past for fully disabling traction control on the non PP cars, but I do not know where it stands.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 10:30:01 PM
On my car (2015 Performance Package) I can turn traction all the way off. When I'm at the track, or logging in temperatures a bit warmer ~45 or higher, I turn it all the way off to keep it from cutting boost. Car still spins sometimes, but it doesn't pull power. But at temperatures cooler than that, especially below freezing, I leave it on since it is safer, and gives me a little extra safety if the car tries to kick out when I go WOT.

I think there was experimentation in the past for fully disabling traction control on the non PP cars, but I do not know where it stands.

believe it resulted in stealblue having to get sct's support for ecm recovery. not sure if him and brad called the experiment off after that tho. would be seriously badass if it could be accomplished though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just think about that for a second...4.78 seconds 0-60 in a v6 family sports sedan with an automatic and V6 engine and 4400 lbs goes in snow goes on vacation gets 25 highway...might not kill the 1/4 mile but a force at stoplights

Times are good...werent supercars dreaming of that speed 10 years ago?

Great car it is...kinda like a muscle car...fat heavy powerful and fun

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 08, 2017, 10:20:50 PM

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 08, 2017, 08:39:57 PM
No E-xperimentation for me. This is a DD, and my wife drives it when I'm out of town for work. I worry enough that she'll put the right fuel in, so I don't want to make it any more complex for her.

I did the knock sensor wire fix early on when I was working with Torrie to try and bring down knock. No discernible difference pre/post mod for me.

I'm still happy where I'm at with my AJP tunes for a 4700lb beast (not including my flub).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotcha, definitely makes sense.

Also, small update, cause I got curious. The 0-60 on my multi gear pull (in 17.6 degree ambient) was 4.78 seconds, and as you can see in the attached screenshot, I was not at full boost in 1st or 2nd due to traction issues (slipped almost all the way to third). That alone tells me the car is much much quicker as it is now.

The 4.78 seconds, did you just figure that out from the log? I have done it this way, and with an app on my phone. Unfortunately the log numbers aren't as nice as the ones from my phone. But I bet they are far more accurate. My phone says low 4's high 3's logs are high 4's..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 09, 2017, 06:16:02 AM
The 4.78 seconds, did you just figure that out from the log? I have done it this way, and with an app on my phone. Unfortunately the log numbers aren't as nice as the ones from my phone. But I bet they are far more accurate. My phone says low 4's high 3's logs are high 4's..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is from the log, I took the MPH trace, took the first point @ 0mph right before the car starts to move, and the first point at/past 60 mph (in this case 60.12 mph I believe). The logs should be pretty accurate with regards to the times, and high 4s seems reasonable. High 3s in a 4400lb family sedan seems a little skewed.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 09, 2017, 08:55:00 AM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 09, 2017, 06:16:02 AM
The 4.78 seconds, did you just figure that out from the log? I have done it this way, and with an app on my phone. Unfortunately the log numbers aren't as nice as the ones from my phone. But I bet they are far more accurate. My phone says low 4's high 3's logs are high 4's..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is from the log, I took the MPH trace, took the first point @ 0mph right before the car starts to move, and the first point at/past 60 mph (in this case 60.12 mph I believe). The logs should be pretty accurate with regards to the times, and high 4s seems reasonable. High 3s in a 4400lb family sedan seems a little skewed.

That's exactly how I did it when I used a log


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 09, 2017, 09:03:10 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 09, 2017, 08:55:00 AM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 09, 2017, 06:16:02 AM
The 4.78 seconds, did you just figure that out from the log? I have done it this way, and with an app on my phone. Unfortunately the log numbers aren't as nice as the ones from my phone. But I bet they are far more accurate. My phone says low 4's high 3's logs are high 4's..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is from the log, I took the MPH trace, took the first point @ 0mph right before the car starts to move, and the first point at/past 60 mph (in this case 60.12 mph I believe). The logs should be pretty accurate with regards to the times, and high 4s seems reasonable. High 3s in a 4400lb family sedan seems a little skewed.

That's exactly how I did it when I used a log


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+2. That's how I did mine, too.

Not sure how the GPS refresh rate is on all the different phones, but I haven't had good luck with anything but steady state speed measurements on my iPhone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the clock ticks/speed should he pretty accurate...becuase the ecu has to have an accurate time keeper for the fuel mass calculations.....it measures pounds of fuel per injection event so the values are really small

You guys are making me want to run home and look at a couple logs!!! Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Got hold of the dyno shop, power pulls scheduled for..... TOMORROW AFTERNOON!!!!

Plan is to run 2 pulls with Rev21, then load my "stock" tune. It won't really be stock, but it stock boost and spark, with no additional optimizations. Rear O2s are turned off and BOV stuff set up properly for my setup in the "stock tune" as well as 3 bar MAP transfer function.

This will show the gains of the boost optimization, fueling, and wastegate mod.

I am super excited!

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 09, 2017, 06:56:40 PM
Got hold of the dyno shop, power pulls scheduled for..... TOMORROW AFTERNOON!!!!

Plan is to run 2 pulls with Rev21, then load my "stock" tune. It won't really be stock, but it stock boost and spark, with no additional optimizations. Rear O2s are turned off and BOV stuff set up properly for my setup in the "stock tune" as well as 3 bar MAP transfer function.

This will show the gains of the boost optimization, fueling, and wastegate mod.

I am super excited!

Subscribed!!! Can't wait to see results


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looking forward to it!...your stock pull will be a little higher than normal though....since you are catless and will likely have 0 knock retard and be running the full amount allowed of spark advance because of the e20 in the tank

But it will still be nice to see what the boost, spark and throttle optimization yields

You need no hookups if they ask...no boost or wideband most shops charge for wideband hookup

F8tlsho you and derf's tunes are extremely close to eachother if memory serves me....so maybe this will serve as a decent approximation for you

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 09, 2017, 08:41:25 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 09, 2017, 06:56:40 PM
Got hold of the dyno shop, power pulls scheduled for..... TOMORROW AFTERNOON!!!!

Plan is to run 2 pulls with Rev21, then load my "stock" tune. It won't really be stock, but it stock boost and spark, with no additional optimizations. Rear O2s are turned off and BOV stuff set up properly for my setup in the "stock tune" as well as 3 bar MAP transfer function.

This will show the gains of the boost optimization, fueling, and wastegate mod.

I am super excited!

Subscribed!!! Can't wait to see results


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You and me both! You and me both!!!!

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 09, 2017, 08:48:49 PM
Looking forward to it!...your stock pull will be a little higher than normal though....since you are catless and will likely have 0 knock retard and be running the full amount allowed of spark advance because of the e20 in the tank

But it will still be nice to see what the boost, spark and throttle optimization yields

You need no hookups if they ask...no boost or wideband most shops charge for wideband hookup

F8tlsho you and derf's tunes are extremely close to eachother if memory serves me....so maybe this will serve as a decent approximation for you

It should still serve as a good representation of the gains from an AJPTurbo Tune, as it will show the gains from the boost, opened up spark limit, and wastegate mod.

That is also good to know for me, as it tells me this car should run low 12s or maybe break into the 11's based on the times he has run with his car.

Hey derf, get the dyno data files, too, if they'll give them to you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 09, 2017, 09:28:46 PM
Hey derf, get the dyno data files, too, if they'll give them to you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah good idea...if you have the raw files you can view them with winpep dynojet software and overlay different runs and see how stock compares

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 09, 2017, 09:31:02 PM

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 09, 2017, 09:28:46 PM

Yeah good idea...if you have the raw files you can view them with winpep dynojet software and overlay different runs and see how stock compares

I know a guy who can Excel the $hit out of the raw data, too! LOL




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 09, 2017, 09:28:46 PM
Hey derf, get the dyno data files, too, if they'll give them to you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll see what I can do!

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 09, 2017, 09:31:02 PM
Yeah good idea...if you have the raw files you can view them with winpep dynojet software and overlay different runs and see how stock compares

Definitely something I want to be able do to!

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 09, 2017, 09:32:39 PM

I know a guy who can Excel the $hit out of the raw data, too! LOL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gee, I wonder who that could be .... *unsuspecting whistling*

I am dynoing my car later today, on a Dynojet 424 with Linked Rollers and a Load Cell.

Talking to AJPTurbo he mentioned when he dyno'd his car on a similar Dynojet it acted a bit weird dynoing in 3rd, but 4th worked out well. Suggested possibly even dynoing in 5th gear as it is 1:1.

Any thoughts, suggestions, comments?

Just trying to educate myself a bit more.

It didnt act wierd but there was a lot of drag and load on the linked dynojet i was on...my 3rd gear pull lasted around 12 seconds.....ive ran 5th gear on my mustang and the pull lasted the same

When the rollers were linked it felt like the car had 1000 lbs on it...it just seemed unnatural how slow the car pulled through the gear

I would caution that if you try a gear like 4th or 5th and the pull gets near or past 20 seconds that is a long time at wot while sitting still and things get incredibly hot...i never see dyno vids that last 20 seconds.

I told the guy at my shop i wanted 1:1  and he kinda shook his head and said may want to try a lower gear and see how long it takes

Per my prior e-mail exchanges with AJP, it was suggested to me to use a gear that allows a pull over 10-15 seconds. Longer than that, you are putting unneeded strain on the PT.

I ran my last round of Explorer dyno testing in 3rd gear, and I was way toward the bottom end of that range (maybe even 9 sec, I'd have to double check). I did something like 20 pulls, though, and wanted to be extra cautious not to over-strain my truck. I also did all my on-road data logs in 3rd gear, so I wanted to have a comparison to my dyno pulls.

Traditional inertia dynos calculate force (F=ma) using the known mass of the rollers and the acceleration of the vehicle, which is why it's important to try and run as close to 1:1 gear as possible to minimize drivetrain losses and errors from correction factors. Load based dynos (like the Mustang I ran on) uses a load cell to measure roll force directly, so gearing doesn't really matter.

You mentioned that the DJ you'll be on has a load cell as well, so maybe gearing doesn't matter as much? I think the most important thing is to run all YOUR pulls in the same gear (now and in the future). In that case, even if your absolute numbers are off a little, your relative gains/measurements will be accurate.

Couple other thoughts based on my recent experience:

1) Have them target your pulls from 2000 - 6000 RPM
2) If you decide to data log, I found it much easier to just use the X4, and I loaded the data onto my laptop between pulls. I originally tried to log directly to the laptop but had persistent connectivity issues with all the ignition cycling.
3) Run with the hood up. Most dyno shops don't have high velocity fans, and there's no sense in heat soaking your engine. Hood up will allow intake temps as close to ambient as possible (more representative of real-world driving) and not overcook your engine bay due to otherwise lower air velocities.
4) My XSport has a cooling duct under the right side of the engine that runs to the rear turbo. I brought my own separate blower fan to blow air down this cooling duct, since the shop fan didn't direct much air there. Not sure if the SHO has something similar or not.
5) I monitored CHT temps and did not start my next run until temps were back down to where we started the prior pull.

Have fun!! :)

Thanks guys, they have a lot of experience with AWD cars so I will ask for their guidance as well. CHT seems like a good metric to keep constant so I will try to do that as well.

No clue about a cooling duct, but I am going straight from work, so not prepared to that level. I expect three pulls (with only two being full out performance tuned) will not put much strain so all should go well.

I'll try and update the relevant threads with my results once I have them.

As for logging, I am for sure going to log with the X4, most likely one log file with the two performance tune pulls, I will dump the log to my laptop before tuning to stock, then a log for the stock tune.

2K to 6K sounds about perfect, and is almost identical to most of my 3rd gear road tune pulls, so we should be good in that aspect as well.

AJPTurbo was kind enough to revise my "stock" tune, to allow for holding the gear, so I can set it into 3rd and let it rip for both pulls.

Thanks again guys!

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 10, 2017, 12:14:27 PM

AJPTurbo was kind enough to revise my "stock" tune, to allow for holding the gear, so I can set it into 3rd and let it rip for both pulls.

He's a peach, ain't he?! :)

He did the same for me and made it SOOO much easier on the dyno (and for data logs)!

One last thing... If you can, bring a flash drive for your raw data. Some dyno computers aren't hooked up to the interwebs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

derfdog15- you're sounding a little sick don't ya think? ;) Probably be best to leave work early and head to the dyno shop so we can all see the results and get on with the rest of our day . . or just hang up on analyzing your dyno sheets and logs for the rest of the evening. Bwaahaa

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 10, 2017, 01:26:58 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 10, 2017, 12:14:27 PM

AJPTurbo was kind enough to revise my "stock" tune, to allow for holding the gear, so I can set it into 3rd and let it rip for both pulls.

He's a peach, ain't he?! :)

He did the same for me and made it SOOO much easier on the dyno (and for data logs)!

One last thing... If you can, bring a flash drive for your raw data. Some dyno computers aren't hooked up to the interwebs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I got my Rev1 logs for him before I got real stock logs, way back when, and then I had the hardest time getting a 3rd gear stock pull because I couldnt get it to hold.

I had a flash drive but thankfully they were connected to the internet so he emailed me my raw files. I will probably make a seperate post for the results but will attach it all so you can work your magic!

Quote from: 8nutz8 on January 10, 2017, 01:55:59 PM
derfdog15- you're sounding a little sick don't ya think? ;) Probably be best to leave work early and head to the dyno shop so we can all see the results and get on with the rest of our day . . or just hang up on analyzing your dyno sheets and logs for the rest of the evening. Bwaahaa

I was supposed to leave 1hr early, and ended up leaving 15 minutes late, got to the dyno 30 minutes late, but they were super cool. once the WinPEP software is done installing I'll get my results up!

(EDIT - Admin) Dyno Results:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7289.0.html (http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7289.0.html)
(http://i.imgur.com/hF84Ia7.jpg)

Nice dude (and AJP Turbo)!

Just wondering, what gear did you end up using for your pulls?

When I dynoed my XSport, my first runs generally always seemed a tad low as well. Not sure why.

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 10, 2017, 08:16:38 PM
Nice dude (and AJP Turbo)!

Just wondering, what gear did you end up using for your pulls?

When I dynoed my XSport, my first runs generally always seemed a tad low as well. Not sure why.

We ended up running in 3rd gear, the shop guys though it holding the gear in SST was amazing, they said it made it way easier.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 10, 2017, 08:19:09 PM

We ended up running in 3rd gear, the shop guys though it holding the gear in SST was amazing, they said it made it way easier.

Heck yeah. When I ran my Unleashed tune, it kept downshifting and wanted to leap off the rollers. I even got a TMS fault that finally cleared when I rolled out of the parking lot.

SST gear hold FTW!

Make sure you take some notes on how you were configured (hood open, fan placement, gear, etc), so when you go back with all your fancy mods and giant turbos you can try to be as consistent as possible with your roller setup. :)

Kick ass! Great to see more of AJP's tuning genius come through with the #'s. And while i wouldn't exactly say your "stock pull" was too close to bone stock trim(with the intake,catless pipes,exhaust and E20 fuel) it does go to show how much difference that little bit of Ethanol makes in optimizing timing. I always used to run about 15-20% E when my car was bone stock and i swear i could feel a little bit of difference in the butt dyno. I imagine you left the wastegate connected for the stock pull and it just never opened?

Quote from: 8nutz8 on January 10, 2017, 08:42:09 PM
Kick ass! Great to see more of AJP's tuning genius come through with the #'s. And while i wouldn't exactly say your "stock pull" was too close to bone stock trim(with the intake,catless pipes,exhaust and E20 fuel) it does go to show how much difference that little bit of Ethanol makes in optimizing timing. I always used to run about 15-20% E when my car was bone stock and i swear i could feel a little bit of difference in the butt dyno. I imagine you left the wastegate connected for the stock pull and it just never opened?

Correct. The wastegate was connected. I didn't hear it open though I believe it did open at the end of the pull on the shift, since the throttle closed and there would have been a pressure spike. Still some spike but not crazy. AJPTurbo left the throttle close logic in place for the stock like tune.

I think it's really interesting to see that the horsepower between the two doesn't have a drastic gap, telling me it is more related to the hardware, and confirming that with a MAP based system a lot of intake/exhaust mods don't need major tune changes

The torque is all from the tunes and I think it's amazing how much torque you can get from the tune. Definitely the best bang for the buck tune.

This was a mustang dyno, correct?
What boost level is this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 10, 2017, 09:48:06 PM
This was a mustang dyno, correct?
What boost level is this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was on a DynoJet, its actually the same model as the one that AJPTurbo did his dyno on a while back (before he sold his SHO).

I believe its commanding a bit over 15psi, its the same rev as the last few logs I posted in the wastegate mod thread. I seem to remember AJPTurbo saying it was looking for ~15psi.

We did determine that the "peak" torque numbers on some of the dyno graphs out there, are due to the spike on shift in/shift out. On these pulls the car was in 3rd from the start, and then the dyno operator nailed it

Based on my conversation with AJPTurbo my car is just about where it should be, and as mentioned, I could have gotten away with a higher wastegate spring on the dyno due to the way load is applied, it had enough that a 15.95 spring probably would have opened the gate (it was open for all 3 of the power pulls, the entire pull). BUT, the 14.5 spring is perfect for the load applied on the street.

AJPTurbo's dyno numbers on his car were with a bit more boost, not sure of his spark, though I believe it was lower.

This is an excerpt from my email with him, which explains why there would have been more horsepower with an increased spring rate, straight from the Log Warlock: "I think if the wastegate duty was a bit lower things would be more efficient  and power would've been closer to 400...When wastegate duty is high the gate is more shut in the turbo because it's trying to spin the turbo for more boost but then all the exhaust is exiting through the little turbine and not as much is escaping the wastegate."

Like I said earlier, I will keep it AS IS for now, and once the tracks open, get some baseline runs on the current setting. Then for the sake of track times, and since it will be warmer, we will probably tweak the tune a bit more (read: more boost) and I'll increment the wastegate springs and go up to the 15.95 and maybe even the 17.4 depending how things look at that point. I will try and do each of those changes one at a time so that I can get more of a comparison.

I am excited to see what this tune runs at the track, since my car ran 14.1 stock(just axelbacks and resonator replaced with an X-pipe), and 12.87 on 93 with 15 psi and a tune and CAI added to the car (plus the mods that were there with the 14.1).

Since then it has gotten E20, much revised tune, 170 thermostat, catless downpipes, hotpipes, boost regulator mod, and a TiAL Q BOV. Some of those (BOV and Chargepipes, as well as T-stat) are more of supporting mods to run a more aggressive tune, but still should be nice to see the gains. I hope for 12.3 or better as the car sits.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 10, 2017, 10:15:28 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 10, 2017, 09:48:06 PM
This was a mustang dyno, correct?
What boost level is this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was on a DynoJet, its actually the same model as the one that AJPTurbo did his dyno on a while back (before he sold his SHO).

I believe its commanding a bit over 15psi, its the same rev as the last few logs I posted in the wastegate mod thread. I seem to remember AJPTurbo saying it was looking for ~15psi.

We did determine that the "peak" torque numbers on some of the dyno graphs out there, are due to the spike on shift in/shift out. On these pulls the car was in 3rd from the start, and then the dyno operator nailed it

Based on my conversation with AJPTurbo my car is just about where it should be, and as mentioned, I could have gotten away with a higher wastegate spring on the dyno due to the way load is applied, it had enough that a 15.95 spring probably would have opened the gate (it was open for all 3 of the power pulls, the entire pull). BUT, the 14.5 spring is perfect for the load applied on the street.

AJPTurbo's dyno numbers on his car were with a bit more boost, not sure of his spark, though I believe it was lower.

This is an excerpt from my email with him, which explains why there would have been more horsepower with an increased spring rate, straight from the Log Warlock: "I think if the wastegate duty was a bit lower things would be more efficient  and power would've been closer to 400...When wastegate duty is high the gate is more shut in the turbo because it's trying to spin the turbo for more boost but then all the exhaust is exiting through the little turbine and not as much is escaping the wastegate."

Like I said earlier, I will keep it AS IS for now, and once the tracks open, get some baseline runs on the current setting. Then for the sake of track times, and since it will be warmer, we will probably tweak the tune a bit more (read: more boost) and I'll increment the wastegate springs and go up to the 15.95 and maybe even the 17.4 depending how things look at that point. I will try and do each of those changes one at a time so that I can get more of a comparison.

I am excited to see what this tune runs at the track, since my car ran 14.1 stock(just axelbacks and resonator replaced with an X-pipe), and 12.87 on 93 with 15 psi and a tune and CAI added to the car (plus the mods that were there with the 14.1).

Since then it has gotten E20, much revised tune, 170 thermostat, catless downpipes, hotpipes, boost regulator mod, and a TiAL Q BOV. Some of those (BOV and Chargepipes, as well as T-stat) are more of supporting mods to run a more aggressive tune, but still should be nice to see the gains. I hope for 12.3 or better as the car sits.

Not sure I understand why u have a 14.5 spring in the gate if you are looking for 15psi. The gate is prob opening up all the time isn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 10, 2017, 09:16:50 PM

I think it's really interesting to see that the horsepower between the two doesn't have a drastic gap, telling me it is more related to the hardware, and confirming that with a MAP based system a lot of intake/exhaust mods don't need major tune changes

This statement is a little misleading. You can't really go off of peak numbers. Well, you can, but that doesn't really tell you the whole story.

I saw a similar phenomenon on my XSport where the peak HP numbers weren't all that different. In fact, I think MY AJP 87 tune showed peak HP that was like 0.2 HP less than the OE tune (going off fuzzy memory), but looking at total power, overall there was a substantial gain across the RPM range.

Similar story with yours. Just eyeballing, but it looks like you're making 50-100HP more through most of the RPM range. That's hugely drastic... and awesome!

I'll calculate your total power over the next few days and post it up for you to salivate over. :)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 10, 2017, 10:20:03 PM
Not sure I understand why u have a 14.5 spring in the gate if you are looking for 15psi. The gate is prob opening up all the time isn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 15.95 and 17.4 springs were not cracking the wastegate when we started revising the tune. No whoosh, and still some spike on shift (slightly reduced on 17.4 a bit better on 15.95). With the 14.5 I still hit the boost commanded, but the car is basically flat on shifts, no spikes at all. However, due to how the dyno works, it put more load on the car, so the conditions the car was on while running on the dyno, would have most likely properly cracked the 15.95 setting, or possibly even the 17.4.

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 10, 2017, 10:33:43 PM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 10, 2017, 09:16:50 PM

I think it's really interesting to see that the horsepower between the two doesn't have a drastic gap, telling me it is more related to the hardware, and confirming that with a MAP based system a lot of intake/exhaust mods don't need major tune changes

This statement is a little misleading. You can't really go off of peak numbers. Well, you can, but that doesn't really tell you the whole story.

I saw a similar phenomenon on my XSport where the peak HP numbers weren't all that different. In fact, I think MY AJP 87 tune showed peak HP that was like 0.2 HP less than the OE tune (going off fuzzy memory), but looking at total power, overall there was a substantial gain across the RPM range.

Similar story with yours. Just eyeballing, but it looks like you're making 50-100HP more through most of the RPM range. That's hugely drastic... and awesome!

I'll calculate your total power over the next few days and post it up for you to salivate over. :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotcha! You rock, thanks again for taking the time to look at data for my car haha. And I am already considering printing my dyno graph on photopaper and framing it lol, or maybe putting it in the garage so I can have motivation when I work on the car.

Mod wise, the car is basically at a standstill for now, next major mod will be custom FMIC but I want to wait till warranty is closer to out, and car is payed off or substantially down.

I will probably do colder plugs with a tight .3 or .28 gap once its time to do plugs, but 30k miles is still a year away at this rate haha.

There are five Topics scattered throughout the board AFAIK and might need to consolidate a few for less clutter.
Congrats and due produce a time slip this upcoming Spring track event especially with all the extra time,effort,$$ you put in to it,best of luck to ya.  Z
BTW if you ever in FL this summer make sure to LMK.  ;)

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 10, 2017, 10:47:33 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 10, 2017, 10:20:03 PM
Not sure I understand why u have a 14.5 spring in the gate if you are looking for 15psi. The gate is prob opening up all the time isn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 15.95 and 17.4 springs were not cracking the wastegate when we started revising the tune. No whoosh, and still some spike on shift (slightly reduced on 17.4 a bit better on 15.95). With the 14.5 I still hit the boost commanded, but the car is basically flat on shifts, no spikes at all. However, due to how the dyno works, it put more load on the car, so the conditions the car was on while running on the dyno, would have most likely properly cracked the 15.95 setting, or possibly even the 17.4.

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 10, 2017, 10:33:43 PM

Ok, gotcha, wonder why this is.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Awesome numbers by the way!!. I only have a mustang dyno near me, and apparently it reads lower than a normal mustang dyno. Prob a real heartbreaker. I think I may take it in once I get the wastegate on and working properly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 11, 2017, 10:09:11 AM
Awesome numbers by the way!!. I only have a mustang dyno near me, and apparently it reads lower than a normal mustang dyno. Prob a real heartbreaker. I think I may take it in once I get the wastegate on and working properly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, mustang dynos are a bit weird, since they allow for a lot more shop calibration. That is why generally people look for dynojets. Mustang dynos can be skwewed high, low or calibrated to be similar to the DynoJet.

IMO, the timeslips are the real proof. But pulls on the same dyno can show a bit more of the gains per mod. It will be nice to have these dyno results once I start going heavier into the mods (FMIC, ATP Turbos, etc.).

That way we can have an apples to apples comparison for gains on those specific mods.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170112/387aa6832e927b9560169d88acf83a94.jpg)
Got it hooked up, have to wait till tonight to take her out after kids go to bed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck!  Thar she blows!!!

Ok, the gate did not open at all. I did not have the right spring in the gate. It came with 2 springs, a 7 and a 13. I must not have read instructions thoroughly. It is set for 20psi. I assumed there was supposed to be 3 springs and they shorted me one. Tomorrow is another day, the ground is wet here anyway, car was having trouble getting traction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 12, 2017, 09:38:03 PM
Ok, the gate did not open at all. I did not have the right spring in the gate. It came with 2 springs, a 7 and a 13. I must not have read instructions thoroughly. It is set for 20psi. I assumed there was supposed to be 3 springs and they shorted me one. Tomorrow is another day, the ground is wet here anyway, car was having trouble getting traction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck, do you have quick grips/similar (http://www.emedco.com/irwin-quick-grip-bar-clamps-spreaders-4b8.html?SKU=GG453&gclid=CIeDyu2NvtECFR6ewAods84AIw (http://www.emedco.com/irwin-quick-grip-bar-clamps-spreaders-4b8.html?SKU=GG453&gclid=CIeDyu2NvtECFR6ewAods84AIw))

I clamp my gate to the workbench I use, with two clamps, and loosen all screws, then slowly back both grips off, it allows for the gate to relieve pressure without the top flying out/springs going everywere.

I do the same method to put it back together, gradually tighten the grips, then align the holes and bolt it up.

Make sure the diaphragm is clear of pinching and in the correct place as well when you put it back together.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 12, 2017, 09:38:03 PM
Ok, the gate did not open at all. I did not have the right spring in the gate. It came with 2 springs, a 7 and a 13. I must not have read instructions thoroughly. It is set for 20psi. I assumed there was supposed to be 3 springs and they shorted me one. Tomorrow is another day, the ground is wet here anyway, car was having trouble getting traction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw your logs and could see you were spinning...You had tq reductions from traction control shifting into 3rd....Just for the record I don't like MBC and wish you had a TIAL or turbosmart wastegate...It just adds an element and it makes it seems like this is a complicated mod...But I'll work on it with you!...I'm afraid if I open up the throttle at higher boost that you are running and you have the MBC wrong or in your case they loaded it with a 20 psi spring set you will get boost spikes way over what we should.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 12, 2017, 09:50:12 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 12, 2017, 09:38:03 PM
Ok, the gate did not open at all. I did not have the right spring in the gate. It came with 2 springs, a 7 and a 13. I must not have read instructions thoroughly. It is set for 20psi. I assumed there was supposed to be 3 springs and they shorted me one. Tomorrow is another day, the ground is wet here anyway, car was having trouble getting traction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck, do you have quick grips/similar (http://www.emedco.com/irwin-quick-grip-bar-clamps-spreaders-4b8.html?SKU=GG453&gclid=CIeDyu2NvtECFR6ewAods84AIw (http://www.emedco.com/irwin-quick-grip-bar-clamps-spreaders-4b8.html?SKU=GG453&gclid=CIeDyu2NvtECFR6ewAods84AIw))

I clamp my gate to the workbench I use, with two clamps, and loosen all screws, then slowly back both grips off, it allows for the gate to relieve pressure without the top flying out/springs going everywere.

I do the same method to put it back together, gradually tighten the grips, then align the holes and bolt it up.

Make sure the diaphragm is clear of pinching and in the correct place as well when you put it back together.

I don't have quick grips, I used my vise to take it apart. Works great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 12, 2017, 09:51:16 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 12, 2017, 09:38:03 PM
Ok, the gate did not open at all. I did not have the right spring in the gate. It came with 2 springs, a 7 and a 13. I must not have read instructions thoroughly. It is set for 20psi. I assumed there was supposed to be 3 springs and they shorted me one. Tomorrow is another day, the ground is wet here anyway, car was having trouble getting traction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw your logs and could see you were spinning...You had tq reductions from traction control shifting into 3rd....Just for the record I don't like MBC and wish you had a TIAL or turbosmart wastegate...It just adds an element and it makes it seems like this is a complicated mod...But I'll work on it with you!...I'm afraid if I open up the throttle at higher boost that you are running and you have the MBC wrong or in your case they loaded it with a 20 psi spring set you will get boost spikes way over what we should.

The roads are wet, damn traction control. I understand what you are saying. I will correct the spring issue tomorrow. And see where we stand. If it is too much of a pain I will experiment with the springs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotcha, no vice here, and I don't want to scratch the finish on the fancy TiAL haha

As for traction control, we hate it, but it does keep ya planted!

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 12, 2017, 09:58:27 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 12, 2017, 09:51:16 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 12, 2017, 09:38:03 PM
Ok, the gate did not open at all. I did not have the right spring in the gate. It came with 2 springs, a 7 and a 13. I must not have read instructions thoroughly. It is set for 20psi. I assumed there was supposed to be 3 springs and they shorted me one. Tomorrow is another day, the ground is wet here anyway, car was having trouble getting traction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw your logs and could see you were spinning...You had tq reductions from traction control shifting into 3rd....Just for the record I don't like MBC and wish you had a TIAL or turbosmart wastegate...It just adds an element and it makes it seems like this is a complicated mod...But I'll work on it with you!...I'm afraid if I open up the throttle at higher boost that you are running and you have the MBC wrong or in your case they loaded it with a 20 psi spring set you will get boost spikes way over what we should.

The roads are wet, damn traction control. I understand what you are saying. I will correct the spring issue tomorrow. And see where we stand. If it is too much of a pain I will experiment with the springs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not a pain for me at all! I just want it to go smoothly for you and don't want you to think it was a waste of time and money and I want it to be consistent and worry free.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 12, 2017, 10:01:10 PM
Gotcha, no vice here, and I don't want to scratch the finish on the fancy TiAL haha

As for traction control, we hate it, but it does keep ya planted!

I use an old bubble wrap package in between to keep it nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AJPTurbo was kind enough to send me his stock dyno run file as well (similar to mine he had his catless SW downpipes installed, and the Airaid CAI installed, but a bonestock tune, and he even had the 2 bar installed - his downpipes and Airaid CAI are now installed on my car)

Look how consistent the stock tune is on our two cars (with weather, humidity, ambient pressure corrected for)

Pretty cool if you ask me!

He was running 93 on his pull, and I ran E20.

Yeah really cool considering different dynos but same model and different cars with same mods....very consistent

Pretty good conversation last night here

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 12, 2017, 09:58:27 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 12, 2017, 09:51:16 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 12, 2017, 09:38:03 PM
Ok, the gate did not open at all. I did not have the right spring in the gate. It came with 2 springs, a 7 and a 13. I must not have read instructions thoroughly. It is set for 20psi. I assumed there was supposed to be 3 springs and they shorted me one. Tomorrow is another day, the ground is wet here anyway, car was having trouble getting traction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw your logs and could see you were spinning...You had tq reductions from traction control shifting into 3rd....Just for the record I don't like MBC and wish you had a TIAL or turbosmart wastegate...It just adds an element and it makes it seems like this is a complicated mod...But I'll work on it with you!...I'm afraid if I open up the throttle at higher boost that you are running and you have the MBC wrong or in your case they loaded it with a 20 psi spring set you will get boost spikes way over what we should.

The roads are wet, damn traction control. I understand what you are saying. I will correct the spring issue tomorrow. And see where we stand. If it is too much of a pain I will experiment with the springs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just start testing the mbc at its lowest setting.. monitor frp and boost... quarter to half turn until you see impact and monitor/adjust from there....

I dunno if I would ask anyone to tune around it... as thar would be a nightmare...I think Brad is being super duper kind there offering too...

I used it to tweak the final tune that Brad worked out for me... I did send Brad a few logs just for confirmation everything still looked safe....

And it's not a set and forget modification... it's something you need to constantly watch....

I will post logs when I get home with and without the MBC...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I could be wrong, but I have a worry that since you may end up going to a higher or lower barometric pressure F8tlSHO, the MBC could become a bit of a pain, if your desired boost levels change. I guess you would know the scaler, but definitely something I would want to monitor on the X4, OR if you are feeling fancy add a cheap manual boost/vacuum gauge into the line, maybe even add two reference locations (one pre, and one post, MBC, so you can see the effects it has).

I am not a MBC guru, but would it do anything to the reference when pulling vacuum, could be a simpler way to see how much you are changing things.

As promised... here are two logs with the SAME tune from Brad... one with the MBC and one without...

The MBC delayed the opening of the wastegate and helped keep it from opening middle of the gear... helped me hit that sweet spot I was looking for in between a 15.95psi spring setup and 17.4 spring setup...

If you look at the logs, there are a couple things to note...

1: I DID NOT ASK BRAD TO TUNE FOR THIS, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO ADJUST THE MBC ON THE FLY DEPENDING ON ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS

2: Using the MBC IMPACTS SIGNIFICANTLY your fuel rail pressure! Thus you need to monitor it closely!!!
3: Using the MBC lowered my WGDC SIGNIFICANTLY.. at the EXPENSE of fuel pressure
4: I was able to hold more boost since I was not allowing the WG to open until the MBC opened.

Enjoy the logs as always...

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 13, 2017, 04:31:39 PM
As promised... here are two logs with the SAME tune from Brad... one with the MBC and one without...

The MBC delayed the opening of the wastegate and helped keep it from opening middle of the gear... helped me hit that sweet spot I was looking for in between a 15.95psi spring setup and 17.4 spring setup...

If you look at the logs, there are a couple things to note...

1: I DID NOT ASK BRAD TO TUNE FOR THIS, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO ADJUST THE MBC ON THE FLY DEPENDING ON ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS

2: Using the MBC IMPACTS SIGNIFICANTLY your fuel rail pressure! Thus you need to monitor it closely!!!
3: Using the MBC lowered my WGDC SIGNIFICANTLY.. at the EXPENSE of fuel pressure
4: I was able to hold more boost since I was not allowing the WG to open until the MBC opened.

Enjoy the logs as always...

No attachment?

I just pulled one of the springs, I now her the whoosh. I am not asking Brad to tune around the mbc. I am going to dial it in as close as I can then have Brad just double check to make sure everything is ok.. I watch my gauges on my sct x4 on a daily basis, I am not worried about tinkering with the mbc. This is an experiment. If it works good then I will stick with it. If not I will move on to the spring method.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good deal, just trying to assist with information I have obtained while doing the same thing. Maybe some of my random posts will help you. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Got an update for you guys:

Thanks to some help from FoMoCo, I was able to get the flywheel torque DMR logged on the current tune (granted, I could't find DMRs on my own livelink, even after returning to stock, clearing my X4, re-installing device updater and livelink, so he sent me his config, but it worked.

Log is attached

Ambient was ~30, roads kinda crappy, and the car literally idled on the tune reflash (Rev21) for ~2 minutes than I did a 3rd gear pull. I am sure in closer conditions to my dyno pull it would be more representative, especially load, humidity, and temperature. But based on the DMR, in third gear, on the first pull I saw a peak of 660.93 nm which is 487.5 ft lb torque at the flywheel. With the partial pull at the end, I saw 683.89 nm, which is 504.4 ft lb

I also did a KAM reset ~ 20 minutes prior and maybe 11 miles earlier.

Pretty good IMO

Thanks to both FoMoCo and AJPTurbo once again. Moving forward for any dyno pull I will make sure this DMR is logged, so I can accurately compare flywheel torque to awtq.

Sidenote: DMRs are pretty cool.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 14, 2017, 12:39:24 AM
Got an update for you guys:

Thanks to some help from FoMoCo, I was able to get the flywheel torque DMR logged on the current tune (granted, I could't find DMRs on my own livelink, even after returning to stock, clearing my X4, re-installing device updater and livelink, so he sent me his config, but it worked.

Log is attached

Ambient was ~30, roads kinda crappy, and the car literally idled on the tune reflash (Rev21) for ~2 minutes than I did a 3rd gear pull. I am sure in closer conditions to my dyno pull it would be more representative, especially load, humidity, and temperature. But based on the DMR, in third gear, on the first pull I saw a peak of 660.93 nm which is 487.5 ft lb torque at the flywheel. With the partial pull at the end, I saw 683.89 nm, which is 504.4 ft lb

I also did a KAM reset ~ 20 minutes prior and maybe 11 miles earlier.

Pretty good IMO

Thanks to both FoMoCo and AJPTurbo once again. Moving forward for any dyno pull I will make sure this DMR is logged, so I can accurately compare flywheel torque to awtq.

Sidenote: DMRs are pretty cool.

How involved is this? Sounds interesting. How accurate is it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 14, 2017, 12:39:24 AM
Got an update for you guys:

Thanks to some help from FoMoCo, I was able to get the flywheel torque DMR logged on the current tune (granted, I could't find DMRs on my own livelink, even after returning to stock, clearing my X4, re-installing device updater and livelink, so he sent me his config, but it worked.

Sweet! I was looking for a way to log this! You should also be able to easily calculate HP as well.

HP=(TQ*RPM)/5252



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 14, 2017, 06:48:36 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 14, 2017, 12:39:24 AM
Got an update for you guys:

Thanks to some help from FoMoCo, I was able to get the flywheel torque DMR logged on the current tune (granted, I could't find DMRs on my own livelink, even after returning to stock, clearing my X4, re-installing device updater and livelink, so he sent me his config, but it worked.

Sweet! I was looking for a way to log this! You should also be able to easily calculate HP as well.

HP=(TQ*RPM)/5252



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Was gonna say that but couldn't remember the equation.. knew the 5252 part.. lol good deal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IF everything decides to work right for you guys the steps should be
1. Return to stock tune
2. Clear tuner of all files
3.uninstall device updated and livelink
4.install latest versions
5.open livelink config and validate parameters while attached to tuner and car
6.find the DMR parameters, you may have sorting issues where they end up with all the PIDs but in that case they are the parameter names in all CAPS
7.save config/load to tuner
8. Reload tune
9. Enjoy

Once I'm back home today I'll open up that same log and see what hp was at those points.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 14, 2017, 10:07:37 AM
Once I'm back home today I'll open up that same log and see what hp was at those points.

It'll be interesting to see the shapes of your curves and peak points compared to what you saw on the dyno.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have been dialing in the mbc the last day and a half when I was out running errands. This method is not recommended for the set it quickly mindset. I dialed it one way till I got to the point that it closed, dialed it the other way till it opened, I am now in the process of closing it again. Prob doing 1/2 turns each time on the mbc. Have about 20 adjustments under my belt. More to go, just some information for anyone looking to go down this road.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quick update on my Tial spring preload idea. I don't think it's going to work. Tial says the cap threads are M10x1. The M10x1 screws I got are a sloppy fit and would surely tear up the aluminum cap if any sort of spring pressure was applied. Unless I can find a better fitting fastener, I think that idea has been deemed "not feasible".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 14, 2017, 04:41:22 PM
Quick update on my Tial spring preload idea. I don't think it's going to work. Tial says the cap threads are M10x1. The M10x1 screws I got are a sloppy fit and would surely tear up the aluminum cap if any sort of spring pressure was applied. Unless I can find a better fitting fastener, I think that idea has been deemed "not feasible".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well that is certainly a shame...

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 14, 2017, 03:18:48 PM
I have been dialing in the mbc the last day and a half when I was out running errands. This method is not recommended for the set it quickly mindset. I dialed it one way till I got to the point that it closed, dialed it the other way till it opened, I am now in the process of closing it again. Prob doing 1/2 turns each time on the mbc. Have about 20 adjustments under my belt. More to go, just some information for anyone looking to go down this road.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can't say you weren't warned. That is the main reason I just went the TiAL route. I am sure you will get it sorted out though.

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 14, 2017, 10:13:34 AM

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 14, 2017, 10:07:37 AM
Once I'm back home today I'll open up that same log and see what hp was at those points.

It'll be interesting to see the shapes of your curves and peak points compared to what you saw on the dyno.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Two graphs attached, as I said last night, first pull (full 3rd gear) had lower numbers, probably due to adaptive, etc. as it was right after the reflash.

Second graph is where I saw the peak number, it is ~2k to ~3.5K pull, had to let out as speed limit was 40 (no longer on the highway)

Peak numbers, in HP and Ft_Lb for the first graph: 432.9/487.9
Peak numbers, in HP and Ft_Lb for the second graph: 348.8/504.4

Based on this, that may be somewhat close to the peak Torque number at the flywheel, though I am thinking it will be a bit higher once a proper pull is done (and of course the dyno put more load on the car, thus the car commanded a higher torque value - by my understanding). Also traction control was intererfering.

For Horsepower, the first pull is sort of indicative, though due to its lower power, I bet there is a lot more margin. Second set of numbers, that HP is almost not worth even looking at, IMO, since the peak HP was ~5k on both the full 3rd gear pull above, as well as on the dyno (it hit peak and flattened out). I am betting some of the reason torque is higher is due to traction control being off.

Enjoy!

Derfdog15, I am not upset at all, I knew exactly what I was getting myself into. I was just posting my experience so others can see it's not a plug and play option. I like doing this kind of stuff


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, I think I am going to tap into the brake booster line instead of the way I have it now. This line comes directly off the intake.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/cef41a8cb5494340445d14cecbac0604.jpg)
I can't seem to get a consistent result with the wastegate. I changed to the other spring that I have, didn't seem to make much difference. Both springs I have seem to be about the same pressure at the same height when compressed. I think I am going to take them to work and check them on my spring tester.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Ok, I think I am going to tap into the brake booster line instead of the way I have it now. This line comes directly off the intake.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/cef41a8cb5494340445d14cecbac0604.jpg)
I can't seem to get a consistent result with the wastegate. I changed to the other spring that I have, didn't seem to make much difference. Both springs I have seem to be about the same pressure at the same height when compressed. I think I am going to take them to work and check them on my spring tester.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is the line I tapped my boost gauge and BOV into (originally had all three there but moved the source on the wastegate when troubleshooting my springs).

The other side, closer to the engine would most likely be a bit easier to tap into, you can remove the hard, plastic like line, that is there stock, and replace with a section of "fuel line" or similar, from the intake to your T, then from the T back to the brake booster and to your wastegate.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:31:23 PM
What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 04:37:22 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:31:23 PM
What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 04:37:22 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:31:23 PM
What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Sorry not kpa, I meant psi. So like 7psi boost because of the 14.5 atmosphere psi. It's opening way early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 05:03:13 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 04:37:22 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:31:23 PM
What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Sorry not kpa, I meant psi. So like 7psi boost because of the 14.5 atmosphere psi. It's opening way early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have the MBC on the vacuum line going to the wastegate?

If you do, then I would keep tightening the mbc down until you only hear the wastegate opening at the up shifts like Brad said...

If you keeping tightening and nothing changes then you need to check to make sure the MBC is not faulty or if you don't have it on the vacuum line directly off the wastegate move it there..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, I finally got my Turbosmart BRA installed.

ADAPTER MODIFICATION REQUIRED!!

I don't know if the MAP port is a larger diameter on the F150 vs transverse or if my manifold is just out of tolerance, but the adapter shoulder would NOT fit my MAP port.

I carefully removed the o-ring and decided to use a cheap Harbor Freight file and some emery paper to remove enough material from the shoulder to allow me to install the adapter.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/b507ebf1a0e3754a0989c6daec85ab6e.jpg)

Once the adapter is installed, the engine/beauty cover DOES NOT fit. I'm undecided if I want to get some spacers to allow me to reinstall the cover.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/50e4d85540a2c6d00682e3c7ddec94a4.jpg)

Functionally, there seems to be no effect on MAP readings (see below). I would have preferred that the screw included in the kit had the same type of head (T20 torx) as the OE screw to reduce tools required for change.

Quote from: SHOdded on January 04, 2017, 02:04:55 PM
Looking forward to results, MiWiAu.    Probably won't affect the MAP readings, but would like to have field data to bear that out.  Good point about the appearance cover.  Run nekked!!!

Here is a comparison of baseline (MAP directly mounted to IM) to the Turbosmart Boost Reference Adapter.

You can see, overall the MAP readings averaged 4.2 to 4.7 kPa below TIP.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/d8f2346b94bfd5d7783c4730d527fd45.png)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/43a54f251dfea74a27811b3f2725a339.png)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 15, 2017, 06:24:27 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 05:03:13 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 04:37:22 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:31:23 PM
What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Sorry not kpa, I meant psi. So like 7psi boost because of the 14.5 atmosphere psi. It's opening way early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have the MBC on the vacuum line going to the wastegate?

If you do, then I would keep tightening the mbc down until you only hear the wastegate opening at the up shifts like Brad said...

If you keeping tightening and nothing changes then you need to check to make sure the MBC is not faulty or if you don't have it on the vacuum line directly off the wastegate move it there..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes on the correct line, don't want to sound like an ass, but I completely understand how this mod works. If I close the mbc fully the wastegate will not open. I thought I was getting it dialed in, then this morning the gate is opening about 2psi earlier than yesterday. It's hard to explain my issue through text without writing a small book. Lol. I think I am trying to close too much of a gap in psi with the mbc. May look at buying some different springs. I have the 13psi spring in, even with no mbc it shouldn't open until 13 or right around 13. It's opening around 7 psi..so trying to close that huge gap with the mbc might be too much. Was also thinking about using both springs and cutting the 7 psi spring down to cut back on the spring pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im not sure but i think what might be happening is the mbc is either acting like a restrictor pill or a bleed off for the reference and with more and less boost going through the mbc its not giving the gate a linear type of reference?

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 07:11:56 PM
Im not sure but i think what might be happening is the mbc is either acting like a restrictor pill or a bleed off for the reference and with more and less boost going through the mbc its not giving the gate a linear type of reference?

I don't know if you saw earlier but my reference line right now is about 3" away from the gate, that's why I was thinking about moving it to the brake booster line(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/15d1887b7eec93586703586c949cc329.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 07:14:52 PM
I don't know if you saw earlier but my reference line right now is about 3" away from the gate, that's why I was thinking about moving it to the brake booster line(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/15d1887b7eec93586703586c949cc329.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think trying the brake booster, or the TIP reference would be a good idea, due to how close your reference is, as I mentioned before. My fear is that when the gate is open, your reference is dropping and thus you may be getting some chatter/opening and closing that is not needed and causing pressure issues.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 07:02:55 PM
Yes on the correct line, don't want to sound like an ass, but I completely understand how this mod works. If I close the mbc fully the wastegate will not open. I thought I was getting it dialed in, then this morning the gate is opening about 2psi earlier than yesterday. It's hard to explain my issue through text without writing a small book. Lol. I think I am trying to close too much of a gap in psi with the mbc. May look at buying some different springs. I have the 13psi spring in, even with no mbc it shouldn't open until 13 or right around 13. It's opening around 7 psi..so trying to close that huge gap with the mbc might be too much. Was also thinking about using both springs and cutting the 7 psi spring down to cut back on the spring pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mentioned there was a 7 and 13 PSI spring, and both were in the gate to make 20? How are the springs marked? Any chance that you have them swapped. The TiAL gate springs max out at 6PSI for an individual spring IIRC, so that also seems a bit weird. I think maybe you were shorted a spring, and there were supposed to be 3 to make 20, 2 to make 13, and 1 to make 7? Could be wrong, but it seems if TiAL (and Precision as well - have a 44mm wastegate of theirs for my mustang) give you 6 springs and none even rate at 7psi individually, then there must be a reason!

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 15, 2017, 06:58:52 PM
Well, I finally got my Turbosmart BRA installed.

ADAPTER MODIFICATION REQUIRED!!

I don't know if the MAP port is a larger diameter on the F150 vs transverse or if my manifold is just out of tolerance, but the adapter shoulder would NOT fit my MAP port.

I carefully removed the o-ring and decided to use a cheap Harbor Freight file and some emery paper to remove enough material from the shoulder to allow me to install the adapter.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/b507ebf1a0e3754a0989c6daec85ab6e.jpg)

Once the adapter is installed, the engine/beauty cover DOES NOT fit. I'm undecided if I want to get some spacers to allow me to reinstall the cover.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/50e4d85540a2c6d00682e3c7ddec94a4.jpg)

Functionally, there seems to be no effect on MAP readings (see below). I would have preferred that the screw included in the kit had the same type of head (T20 torx) as the OE screw to reduce tools required for change.

Quote from: SHOdded on January 04, 2017, 02:04:55 PM
Looking forward to results, MiWiAu.    Probably won't affect the MAP readings, but would like to have field data to bear that out.  Good point about the appearance cover.  Run nekked!!!

Here is a comparison of baseline (MAP directly mounted to IM) to the Turbosmart Boost Reference Adapter.

You can see, overall the MAP readings averaged 4.2 to 4.7 kPa below TIP.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/d8f2346b94bfd5d7783c4730d527fd45.png)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/43a54f251dfea74a27811b3f2725a339.png)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would be interesting to see the two data sets overlaye onto each other, for complete 1:1 comparison. I also am interested to know if it changed any wastegate mod performance for you. I think their may just be manufacturing tolerance/location differences due to transverse that caused your fitment issue, but not entirely sure.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 07:02:55 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on January 15, 2017, 06:24:27 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 05:03:13 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 04:37:22 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on January 15, 2017, 04:31:23 PM
What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Sorry not kpa, I meant psi. So like 7psi boost because of the 14.5 atmosphere psi. It's opening way early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have the MBC on the vacuum line going to the wastegate?

If you do, then I would keep tightening the mbc down until you only hear the wastegate opening at the up shifts like Brad said...

If you keeping tightening and nothing changes then you need to check to make sure the MBC is not faulty or if you don't have it on the vacuum line directly off the wastegate move it there..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes on the correct line, don't want to sound like an ass, but I completely understand how this mod works. If I close the mbc fully the wastegate will not open. I thought I was getting it dialed in, then this morning the gate is opening about 2psi earlier than yesterday. It's hard to explain my issue through text without writing a small book. Lol. I think I am trying to close too much of a gap in psi with the mbc. May look at buying some different springs. I have the 13psi spring in, even with no mbc it shouldn't open until 13 or right around 13. It's opening around 7 psi..so trying to close that huge gap with the mbc might be too much. Was also thinking about using both springs and cutting the 7 psi spring down to cut back on the spring pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh I know, just trying to help. I was just thinking it might be too much of gap... mine was only about a 1 psi gap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally I thought I was missing a spring also, but then I found this(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/8947e6191ab2898dd3eef039ad841914.jpg)
With both springs in the gate wouldn't open so it had to have been closer to 20psi. That's why I was thinking about cutting down one spring to create a lower preload pressure which would create a lower opening pressure on the gate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 07:46:51 PM
Originally I thought I was missing a spring also, but then I found this(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/8947e6191ab2898dd3eef039ad841914.jpg)
With both springs in the gate wouldn't open so it had to have been closer to 20psi. That's why I was thinking about cutting down one spring to create a lower preload pressure which would create a lower opening pressure on the gate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is truly odd, but I do stand corrected, precision uses springs larger than 6psi per spring. (they offer a 1.5, 3, 6,9, and 18psi spring) so 7 and 13 aren't that farfetched, assuming they work. I wonder if the Precision springs would work in the TiAL (I have a bunch at home ready to go into the mustang...)

Here is the Precision spring chart/install instructions, springs are page 8 for anyone interested: http://www.precisionturbo.net/tech/instruction-manuals/PTE-PW46-Wastegate-Instructions.pdf (http://www.precisionturbo.net/tech/instruction-manuals/PTE-PW46-Wastegate-Instructions.pdf)

As for your gate, IDK how cutting length on a spring would do, I would test the actual springs first.
If you end up going the spring route, I am not sure if you would need F38 style springs, or MV-S springs.
Here is the reference for the MV-S
http://www.tialsport.com/documents/MVSspc.png (http://www.tialsport.com/documents/MVSspc.png)
and here is the individual spring rating:
https://www.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/00000001/data/MVSprings2.jpg (https://www.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/00000001/data/MVSprings2.jpg)

Here is F38 (seems to have more combos - infact it has a 7 and a 13 psi spring, so I am betting your gate is replicated from this, as I said before)
http://www.tialsport.com/documents/w3_tial_38_sp.pdf (http://www.tialsport.com/documents/w3_tial_38_sp.pdf)

Good luck, as always, and keep us posted.

IMPROTANT UPDATE/IDEA: Take note of the bleeder valve Boost Controller install mentioned in the precision instructions. It would be a worth a try here. Basically a T going from your vacuum reference to BOTH the wastegate (bottom reference) and MBC inlet. Then from MBC out to wastegate top port (which you currently have VTA I believe?)
This method creates a differential that may be more sufficient for replacing missing spring pressure. Hope this helps. Should work the same on your gate as well.

Cutting the spring should create less preload, which would create less pressure. I have done this at work many times to get a desired pressure if I have a spring break in a die and I don't have the correct one to replace it. That's why I have the spring tester at work. The big spring is prob 5-6 inches long in its free state. Gets compressed down to 2-3 inches. A 6 inch spring compressed to 3 inches will have more pressure than the same spring at a free length of 4 inches compressed at the same rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 08:11:23 PM
Cutting the spring should create less preload, which would create less pressure. I have done this at work many times to get a desired pressure if I have a spring break in a die and I don't have the correct one to replace it. That's why I have the spring tester at work. The big spring is prob 5-6 inches long in its free state. Gets compressed down to 2-3 inches. A 6 inch spring compressed to 3 inches will have more pressure than the same spring at a free length of 4 inches compressed at the same rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotcha, I have never done it so was not aware of the theory/practice. Also, did you see my edit to the last post, about the "Bleeder Valve" method of boost controller? May be worth a shot.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 15, 2017, 07:25:32 PM

Would be interesting to see the two data sets overlaye onto each other, for complete 1:1 comparison. I also am interested to know if it changed any wastegate mod performance for you. I think their may just be manufacturing tolerance/location differences due to transverse that caused your fitment issue, but not entirely sure.

I tried doing an overlay, but it was just too messy to read. I kept the Y axis scaled the same, so it should be fairly easy to see relative differences.

For this test, I kept my wastegate reference hooked up to the charge pipe, since the only variable I wanted to test was the Boost Reference Adapter (I plugged both ports on the BRA). After I completed the comparison (and was confident that my readings were consistent), I changed my gate springs from the 18.85 to the 17.40 springs, and hooked up my reference to the adapter. Now with the lighter springs, the gate is not opening, so the lower manifold reference seems to be doing what I want to.

I'm going to move back down to the 15.95 springs and see if that helps me dial it in, but I need to run through my current tank of gas and get some 93 put back in (got stuck at a station that only had 91 no-ethanol).

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 08:11:23 PM
Cutting the spring should create less preload, which would create less pressure. I have done this at work many times to get a desired pressure if I have a spring break in a die and I don't have the correct one to replace it. That's why I have the spring tester at work. The big spring is prob 5-6 inches long in its free state. Gets compressed down to 2-3 inches. A 6 inch spring compressed to 3 inches will have more pressure than the same spring at a free length of 4 inches compressed at the same rate.

If you shorten the spring by cutting out active coils, you are also increasing your spring rate (which means your valve might not open as far due to higher spring reaction forces). By reducing "na" in the formula below, you are decreasing your denominator and increasing your spring rate (k). Not necessarily a bad thing, but something to be aware of depending on the application.

Your preload is simply your spring rate (k) times your compressed distance (make sure your units are compatible).

Here's the math for spring rate (k), for anyone interested (copied from thespringstore.com):

k = Gd^4 ÷ (8D^3 na)

G = E ÷ 2 ( 1 + V)

D = D outer - d

Formula symbols:

d = Wire Diameter
D outer = Outer Diameter
D = Mean Diameter
E = Young's Modulus of Material
G = Shear Modulus of Material
L free = Free Length
k = Spring Rate (Spring Constant)
na = Active Coils
v = Poison's Ratio of Material

Gotcha, I have never done it so was not aware of the theory/practice. Also, did you see my edit to the last post, about the "Bleeder Valve" method of boost controller? May be worth a shot.
[/quote]

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/018d5b2f9fb04856c34ac46735d00c33.jpg)
I have never seen it hooked up like this. Maybe this is why I am having so much trouble. Thank u. I wondered what the top port was for. But their is no seal in between the top and the gate. I would imagine I would need one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not sure on the seal, the gate doesn't leak as it is currently set up, so I assume it wouldnt leak with the "bleeder valve" set up either. As it is now, it pushes air out of there, essentially the bleeder valve puts pressure back in, so it needs more pressure at the bottom of the diaphragm to open up.

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 08:46:46 PM

I have never seen it hooked up like this. Maybe this is why I am having so much trouble. Thank u. I wondered what the top port was for. But their is no seal in between the top and the gate. I would imagine I would need one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Tial MV-S doesn't have a seal for the top side either. Maybe the mating surfaces are good enough to hold the pressure. Some RTV might provide some additional peace of mind. Might make it more of a PITA to change springs, though, LOL. I'd try without first. ;)

Nice find, derf!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[/quote]

If you shorten the spring by cutting out active coils, you are also increasing your spring rate (which means your valve might not open as far due to higher spring reaction forces). By reducing "na" in the formula below, you are decreasing your denominator and increasing your spring rate (k). Not necessarily a bad thing, but something to be aware of depending on the application.

Your preload is simply your spring rate (k) times your compressed distance (make sure your units are compatible).
[/quote]

It would prob be more of a problem i was only using 1 spring (increasing the spring rate).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 15, 2017, 08:51:46 PM
I am not sure on the seal, the gate doesn't leak as it is currently set up, so I assume it wouldnt leak with the "bleeder valve" set up either. As it is now, it pushes air out of there, essentially the bleeder valve puts pressure back in, so it needs more pressure at the bottom of the diaphragm to open up.

I didn't pay attention to the cap to see if there is a feature that retains the diaphragm in place? That would provide a seal from the bottom side. Not sure about the top. I'm going to change over my springs tomorrow evening, so I'll take a closer look at mine while it's apart.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 15, 2017, 08:53:49 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 08:46:46 PM

I have never seen it hooked up like this. Maybe this is why I am having so much trouble. Thank u. I wondered what the top port was for. But their is no seal in between the top and the gate. I would imagine I would need one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Tial MV-S doesn't have a seal for the top side either. Maybe the mating surfaces are good enough to hold the pressure. Some RTV might provide some additional peace of mind. Might make it more of a PITA to change springs, though, LOL. I'd try without first. ;)

Nice find, derf!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe a paper seal to start with


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Man... I blew it, the mbc is hooked up backwards... in too much of a hurry with too much stuff going on..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/121d22989cf0dcb1ad621efa169e3cad.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 09:37:21 PM
Man... I blew it, the mbc is hooked up backwards... in too much of a hurry with too much stuff going on..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/121d22989cf0dcb1ad621efa169e3cad.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least you figured it out now! And its pretty simple to flip, try it the correct way and report back!

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 15, 2017, 09:42:52 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 09:37:21 PM
Man... I blew it, the mbc is hooked up backwards... in too much of a hurry with too much stuff going on..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/121d22989cf0dcb1ad621efa169e3cad.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least you figured it out now! And its pretty simple to flip, try it the correct way and report back!

Can't believe I did this... lol.. I am off tomorrow with the kids, but I will have my wife's Odyssey. Gotta pick up a load of hardwood flooring. Can't really do that in the sho. Made sure the tank was full in the sho, don't need her screwing up the e20 mix


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good thing you caught it before chopping springs! ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 15, 2017, 10:53:10 PM
Good thing you caught it before chopping springs! ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We will see if it changes anything..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 10:54:21 PM

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 15, 2017, 10:53:10 PM
Good thing you caught it before chopping springs! ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We will see if it changes anything..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The way the MBC is made, it should, there is basically a valve that opens and lets the air through at the desired level. When you turn the knob it applys pressure to the ball bearing to increase/decrease that desired pressure level. Since you have it reversed, it can't see the pressure properly, and the ball bearing does not open properly. Fixing the orientation should allow it to actually control boost.

Quote from: derfdog15 on January 15, 2017, 11:07:09 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 10:54:21 PM

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 15, 2017, 10:53:10 PM
Good thing you caught it before chopping springs! ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We will see if it changes anything..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The way the MBC is made, it should, there is basically a valve that opens and lets the air through at the desired level. When you turn the knob it applys pressure to the ball bearing to increase/decrease that desired pressure level. Since you have it reversed, it can't see the pressure properly, and the ball bearing does not open properly. Fixing the orientation should allow it to actually control boost.

I hope you are right


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You guys great thread going here. I will be tinkering soon as well. Just picked up my x4 and will be sending Brad info next week then off to the tool box!

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 11:08:23 PM
I hope you are right

Any luck swapping those MBC connections, f8tl?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: MiWiAu on January 20, 2017, 07:46:26 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on January 15, 2017, 11:08:23 PM
I hope you are right

Any luck swapping those MBC connections, f8tl?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just got it swapped around yesterday, busy week.. I have not gotten it dialed in yet, but I am slowly working on it. trust me I am eager to report back as soon as I have news. Good or bad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ok guys, seems to be working now. it is starting to leak at 28.3psi including atmosphere pressure. needs fine tuned, but i have a good feeling about this.
here is a log to peek at. couldnt do a full ajp log,too much traffic.

Looking pretty good f8tlSHO!

I got a log this weekend of my car, in warmer weather, so I thought I would share. Fuel pressure looks better, so I think I will be able to go up a spring for the drag track, once I get a time on the current setup.

here is a log with 3 pulls on it. the first pull had a spike of about 232kpa ,i opened the mbc a little,the last 2 look pretty steady right around 200kpa. the gate opened in between shifts and faded back to closed. i am no expert looking at logs,anyone see anything funky?

i have a quick question... i understand why you guys are using a waste gate to regulate, does that mean that the stock waste gates do not function properly in order to keep fuel spikes and irregularboost levels or is it juat not a tunable with only the stock qaste gates... all i know is that i cant stand when the throttle blade closes during a pull.  like a brick wall.

Quote from: 2013blksho on April 19, 2017, 08:14:51 AM
i have a quick question... i understand why you guys are using a waste gate to regulate, does that mean that the stock waste gates do not function properly in order to keep fuel spikes and irregularboost levels or is it juat not a tunable with only the stock qaste gates... all i know is that i cant stand when the throttle blade closes during a pull.  like a brick wall.

Stock gates work exactly as designed. The regulator mod (added wastegate) only functions to keep boost from spiking on shifts, and allowing for the throttle to stay open. It actually keeps fuel pressure in check better than the OE system with throttle closing does IMO.

^What derf said. This mod does not affect the function of the OE wastegates.

This mod is adding an additional wastegate in a non-traditional function (intake tract rather than exhaust).

This allows the throttle blade to stay fully open, and when the TIP spikes during a shift, the extra pressure bleeds out of the intake wastegate rather than being forced into the intake (or closing the throttle blade, as is done to control boost spikes without the mod).

In this application, the intake wastegate functions more or less, kinda-sorta like a BOV (but not quite, lol)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ok yes... i do understand... i have been reading on this for to long and wonderer if it was only for spikes.  brad and i juat started tuning and so far it great. compaired to a canned tune WOW. we will see where it goes!!!

Think this would work for the wastegate flange to weld to noisemaker eliminator pipe? Tial makes an actual 38mm aluminum flange kit says 38mm,

http://www.jegs.com/i/TiAL-Sport/768/004809/10002/-1 (http://www.jegs.com/i/TiAL-Sport/768/004809/10002/-1)

Quote from: jbeez on July 29, 2017, 02:34:20 PM
Think this would work for the wastegate flange to weld to noisemaker eliminator pipe? Tial makes an actual 38mm aluminum flange kit says 38mm,

http://www.jegs.com/i/TiAL-Sport/768/004809/10002/-1 (http://www.jegs.com/i/TiAL-Sport/768/004809/10002/-1)

It may work, and I don't recall if that was available when I did mine a while back. However, the gasket for the Vband ma cause some issue, and you would need to verify that the two sides of the vband flange will be compatable, as not all vband flanges are milled to the same specs. I would call TiAL and ask, as when I did so, I was told they had nothing that would mate.

I emailed them, I can't seem to find their phone number. THe website contact info only shows a fax number and it just whistles at me when I call. I whistled back but I think it cursed me out.

LOL, need to practice that whistle i guess!  Will see if a phone no exists.

CONTACT DETAILS

Address:
TiAL Sport
450 S. Shiawassee St.
Owosso, MI 48867

Fax: 989-729-9973

For Sales Questions Email Us At:  sales@tialsport.com
For Technical Support Email Us At:  tech@tialsport.com

OK may have found a solution for a mount, working on it. :)

Quote from: EcoPowerParts on July 31, 2017, 08:39:44 PM
OK may have found a solution for a mount, working on it. :)

hope your solution doesn't involve TiAL, they just got back to me:

"Hello,

Being it is a wastegate and not a bypass valve, we do not make a alum flange for this unit, nor will the QRJ flange work.  You would have to mimic the flange in the box on a lathe or find someone that makes it, which there are a few out there that do.

Best Regards"

I had a flange made...

Quote from: ddlopes on August 05, 2017, 05:25:06 PM
I had a flange made...

Local place to you or online?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: jbeez on August 05, 2017, 06:13:25 PM

Quote from: ddlopes on August 05, 2017, 05:25:06 PM
I had a flange made...

Local place to you or online?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Local custom car builder... he also build my custom xpipe with a boost activated cutout...

Happen to be near me at all? I'm in southeastern PA :|   Looking to get at least the tial setup next and I just had downpiipes put on and was looking at those cutout mods. What do you think of that cutout you have, looks nice?

What did each of those cost?

Quote from: jbeez on August 05, 2017, 08:11:01 PM
Happen to be near me at all? I'm in southeastern PA :|   Looking to get at least the tial setup next and I just had downpiipes put on and was looking at those cutout mods. What do you think of that cutout you have, looks nice?

What did each of those cost?

I live in southeastern Massachusetts. I love the exhaust cutout although very expensive approximately $2000. The wastegate mod was around $650 complete with the gate and repowdercoating the pipe

Quote from: ddlopes on August 06, 2017, 07:38:36 AM

Quote from: jbeez on August 05, 2017, 08:11:01 PM
Happen to be near me at all? I'm in southeastern PA :|   Looking to get at least the tial setup next and I just had downpiipes put on and was looking at those cutout mods. What do you think of that cutout you have, looks nice?

What did each of those cost?

I live in southeastern Massachusetts. I love the exhaust cutout although very expensive approximately $2000. The wastegate mod was around $650 complete with the gate and repowdercoating the pipe

Someone told me they ran the wastegate mod and car was running hotter vs the throttle control method. Do you find that with yours?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: jbeez on August 06, 2017, 08:07:05 AM

Quote from: ddlopes on August 06, 2017, 07:38:36 AM

Quote from: jbeez on August 05, 2017, 08:11:01 PM
Happen to be near me at all? I'm in southeastern PA :|   Looking to get at least the tial setup next and I just had downpiipes put on and was looking at those cutout mods. What do you think of that cutout you have, looks nice?

What did each of those cost?

I live in southeastern Massachusetts. I love the exhaust cutout although very expensive approximately $2000. The wastegate mod was around $650 complete with the gate and repowdercoating the pipe

Someone told me they ran the wastegate mod and car was running hotter vs the throttle control method. Do you find that with yours?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

That was me... and yes, I have datalogs to prove it.  It's a great modification but my turbos did run hotter. First through second gear was not bad as the wastegate mod didn't open much... third gear with no throttle control the wastegate opens longer which causes the turbos to work harder to keep the boost..

I didn't poo poo the modification. I loved it when I ran it, but I believe personally using the throttle works better on this car to control the boost spikes.

Again... this is just my opinion on my car... others run it and like it..

There are dynos of those with and without the modification... they are identical in curve and output... so why stress the turbos for little to no gain?

Keeping the throttle open does make the car much more responsive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I should clarify...

This mod is great if you have fuel pressure issues, and you don't hammer the car or track it often. For going around town and taking out the occasional STI...

If you hammer it or track it you will run hotter... I was monitoring CHT and IAT2 between my wastegate tunes and non-wastegate tunes...

The wastegate tunes had a steeper slope on both of the datapoints.  Which is not a bad thing necessarily if you are just doing the occasional blast.

I wanted to eventually track my car and get consistent times etc... for which I felt not using the wastegate was better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 06, 2017, 09:08:41 AM

Quote from: jbeez on August 06, 2017, 08:07:05 AM

Quote from: ddlopes on August 06, 2017, 07:38:36 AM

Quote from: jbeez on August 05, 2017, 08:11:01 PM
Happen to be near me at all? I'm in southeastern PA :|   Looking to get at least the tial setup next and I just had downpiipes put on and was looking at those cutout mods. What do you think of that cutout you have, looks nice?

What did each of those cost?

I live in southeastern Massachusetts. I love the exhaust cutout although very expensive approximately $2000. The wastegate mod was around $650 complete with the gate and repowdercoating the pipe

Someone told me they ran the wastegate mod and car was running hotter vs the throttle control method. Do you find that with yours?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

That was me... and yes, I have datalogs to prove it.  It's a great modification but my turbos did run hotter. First through second gear was not bad as the wastegate mod didn't open much... third gear with no throttle control the wastegate opens longer which causes the turbos to work harder to keep the boost..

I didn't poo poo the modification. I loved it when I ran it, but I believe personally using the throttle works better on this car to control the boost spikes.

Again... this is just my opinion on my car... others run it and like it..

There are dynos of those with and without the modification... they are identical in curve and output... so why stress the turbos for little to no gain?

Keeping the throttle open does make the car much more responsive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Super helpful post. No gain in HP or 1/4? Thought it did but i believe you, i dont recall seeing anything proof wise in the threads besides seat of the pants stuff.  Ok I may skip that mod, rather not stress the turbos if I don't need to.

Thanks for the great insight!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

No my temp was not affected

I would say this mod is not about horse power gain. It's about mitigating boost spikes and the symptoms that go along with it such as high pressure fuel drop due to the sudden increase in load that this fuel system can't handle and KR from boost spiking 4-5 psi quickly. While keeping the throttle open which is no doubt more efficient.

Steal Blue also used an inline manual boost controller that I will say gave me datalogs that look a bit different than others I have seen with this mod. I didn't care for the manual boost controller along with this mod but he liked to further modify his car and is tweak to his liking....For some reason I think using the manual boost controller kept higher at times...I think when some of the reference boost signal that is going through the solenoids is bled off from the factory solenoid and the MBC a few different things were going on.

Running hotter I dunno, I didn't see coolant temps affected. And I usually try not to exceed wastegate duty cycle in the 80% range with or without the wastegate mod...I've see plenty of other tunes where the wastegate duty wildly exceeds that.

If I tune for the wastegate mod and no extra manipulation is going on top of that then the wastegate mod should only open briefly at times and be completely passive...Only the boost pressure above desired amounts will be bled off and affect turbos minimally.

I would say using the throttle is without a doubt NOT as effective to control boos spikes...There is a delay...The ECU has to see the boost go above desired then close the throttle and it takes a bit to lower boost. With the wastegate mod the boost pressure directly acts on the diaphragm and it opens the gate.

I have plenty of logs where using throttle to control the spikes still allows 5 psi spikes but they don't last long....With the wastegate mod you don't get spikes when tuned properly...You get small boost increases at the upshifts but no spikes

I can't see a downside to the wastegate mod other than added cost and a little more time tuning.

Forgot all about my MBC.... lol... but I stand by my opinion... 1-2 gear was a monster... the start of 3rd was pretty wicked... during the long pull through third was where I felt that the IATs effecting spark too much for me...but again... my opinion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 06, 2017, 10:51:21 AM
Forgot all about my MBC.... lol... but I stand by my opinion... 1-2 gear was a monster... the start of 3rd was pretty wicked... during the long pull through third was where I felt that the IATs effecting spark too much for me...but again... my opinion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I was just looking through some of our old emails and I was going to quote you on you saying how hard it pulled lol so I was going to question you on the power gains not being there.

But anyway, your car seemed to like the spark advance even at higher boost. And I recall us running around 210-220 KPA or well over 15 psi at the end of summer so I could see the IAT's getting pretty high but your car always wanted more spark. So the IAT's didn't seem to adversely effect us

But I have no dog in the fight and don't make money on the wastegate mod so I wouldn't discourage people from the mod on the basis of heat....For my car I like the flat boost curves with open throttle and stable fuel pressure....The direct injection relies on the fuel pressure to combat KR so if this mod helps that and mitigates boost spikes and keeps the throttle open I'd take that.

Quote from: AJP turbo on August 06, 2017, 11:06:27 AM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 06, 2017, 10:51:21 AM
Forgot all about my MBC.... lol... but I stand by my opinion... 1-2 gear was a monster... the start of 3rd was pretty wicked... during the long pull through third was where I felt that the IATs effecting spark too much for me...but again... my opinion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I was just looking through some of our old emails and I was going to quote you on you saying how hard it pulled lol so I was going to question you on the power gains not being there.

But anyway, your car seemed to like the spark advance even at higher boost. And I recall us running around 210-220 KPA or well over 15 psi at the end of summer so I could see the IAT's getting pretty high but your car always wanted more spark. So the IAT's didn't seem to adversely effect us

But I have no dog in the fight and don't make money on the wastegate mod so I wouldn't discourage people from the mod on the basis of heat....For my car I like the flat boost curves with open throttle and stable fuel pressure....The direct injection relies on the fuel pressure to combat KR so if this mod helps that and mitigates boost spikes and keeps the throttle open I'd take that.

Quote me all day! I was and am still a supporter of this modification to control boost spikes which allowed us to push the car quite a bit further with more boost and spark.  And I really don't see an issue with it if your not worried about IATs. The only reason I sold everything off including the tuner was I thought I was selling my car.

I don't think the mod adds power but it does allow you to push more boost. A 14psi tune with the mod vs without the mod doesn't make anymore power... and when you hit third gear with this mod your riding those boost spikes A LOT longer which does tend create more heat... I dunno... with the meth now I can't really back and test it again...

It really did solve a lot of problems I had with fuel pressure. Just ran hot. I will try to find some logs that show it... I know that the IATs got hotter faster on third gear...the slope was steeper...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: ddlopes on August 06, 2017, 10:24:09 AM
No my temp was not affected

sorry was on my phone it was just quoting everything when I tried to reply to anyone lol

Just a quick snipet...Trying to compare apples to apples so it's the same car before and after the mod.
Green is boost
Light blue is throttle
Dark blue is fuel pressure

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 06, 2017, 09:08:41 AM

Quote from: jbeez on August 06, 2017, 08:07:05 AM

Quote from: ddlopes on August 06, 2017, 07:38:36 AM

Quote from: jbeez on August 05, 2017, 08:11:01 PM
Happen to be near me at all? I'm in southeastern PA :|   Looking to get at least the tial setup next and I just had downpiipes put on and was looking at those cutout mods. What do you think of that cutout you have, looks nice?

What did each of those cost?

I live in southeastern Massachusetts. I love the exhaust cutout although very expensive approximately $2000. The wastegate mod was around $650 complete with the gate and repowdercoating the pipe

Someone told me they ran the wastegate mod and car was running hotter vs the throttle control method. Do you find that with yours?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

That was me... and yes, I have datalogs to prove it.  It's a great modification but my turbos did run hotter. First through second gear was not bad as the wastegate mod didn't open much... third gear with no throttle control the wastegate opens longer which causes the turbos to work harder to keep the boost..

I didn't poo poo the modification. I loved it when I ran it, but I believe personally using the throttle works better on this car to control the boost spikes.

Again... this is just my opinion on my car... others run it and like it..

There are dynos of those with and without the modification... they are identical in curve and output... so why stress the turbos for little to no gain?

Keeping the throttle open does make the car much more responsive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did it also and I now do not have it on anymore. Got Brad regulating throttle to stop spikes. E30 tune tears it up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The difference in launch from a stop and especially from a roll with the wastegate regulator was for sure noticeable on my 2015. I dont have access to most of my logs as my old computer ate dirt. If you ever feel the urge to use any of my logs, feel free Brad!