Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => Performance => Topic started by: J_C on August 24, 2016, 06:07:56 PM

Title: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: J_C on August 24, 2016, 06:07:56 PM
What's the best way to figure your mixture after initially mixing? Say you're setup to run 5 gallons of e85 and 14 of 93 octane. How exactly can you maintain consistency of that combination? Does e85 burn equal to say 93?
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:14:09 PM
You have Email...
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:16:31 PM
E-20 was easy and the fueling was great but E-30 38 has been a little challenging getting the stoich setting dialed in.

Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html)
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:20:08 PM
I'd shoot for the rich end of the worst case scenario, I'd rather the ECU need to pull than add.
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: J_C on August 24, 2016, 06:49:36 PM
Thanks man! You definitely bring up a good point about running a tad rich over too aggressive with the mix. I hear e30 is all the car will take before running out of fuel with the stock system
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 08:06:22 PM
Quote from: J_C on August 24, 2016, 06:49:36 PM
Thanks man! You definitely bring up a good point about running a tad rich over too aggressive with the mix. I hear e30 is all the car will take before running out of fuel with the stock system
I'm sitting at E38 ish with good pressure.

When I say rich, it is not rich per se as the car is targeting a lambda of 1 at part throttle and whatever you set at WOT. (I'm at .85)

Look at LTFT as your broad fuel adjustment and STFT as a fine tuning adjustment. There is a time component and the car is always learning but if you are too far out of whack on your target you can overshoot and undershoot your targets. I had the E20 tune consistently around 0 at cruise and idle. (+-1.6 LTFT and STFT both banks) The bigger your trim differences are the more chance there is to miss your targets and I like seeing commanded match target throughout my WOT pulls. I'd personally rather overshoot than undershoot and go lean. No fear though, corn is excellent at suppressing knock.
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: 92BlackGT on August 25, 2016, 02:37:43 AM
i like seeing more people mess with E. good luck on your endeavors.
once it starts cooling off, I'm going to go back to revising my E20 tune with Torrie before the track closes down in October. I want that damn 12 and hopefully there will be good air and get me to mid 12's!
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: J_C on August 25, 2016, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: 92BlackGT on August 25, 2016, 02:37:43 AM
i like seeing more people mess with E. good luck on your endeavors.
once it starts cooling off, I'm going to go back to revising my E20 tune with Torrie before the track closes down in October. I want that damn 12 and hopefully there will be good air and get me to mid 12's!

How many revisions did it take with Torrie to get e20 dialed in? Mid 12's are also my goal come fall with cool weather. My best is a 12.82 @107 on a 90+ degree day with high humidity with DA hovering around 2800'. That was with 93 octane but I'm definitely considering adding e85
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: 92BlackGT on August 26, 2016, 03:07:31 AM
Quote from: J_C on August 25, 2016, 11:58:31 AM
How many revisions did it take with Torrie to get e20 dialed in? Mid 12's are also my goal come fall with cool weather. My best is a 12.82 @107 on a 90+ degree day with high humidity with DA hovering around 2800'. That was with 93 octane but I'm definitely considering adding e85

I've only had 3 revisions on my E20 tune. there is definitely more in it with more work with Torrie
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: Colorado-SHOBro on February 26, 2017, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html)
it appears intercepts calculator isn't there anymore!? major bummer it was my bible for the Eblends. anyone know if it can be found elsewhere or have another calculator they've had good experience with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: AJP turbo on February 26, 2017, 04:47:07 PM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 26, 2017, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html)
it appears intercepts calculator isn't there anymore!? major bummer it was my bible for the Eblends. anyone know if it can be found elsewhere or have another calculator they've had good experience with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fomo found a great one...I have it too..I'll try and send it to you...It even accounts for what's in the tank too

Scratch that, we may be talking about  the same one?
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: Colorado-SHOBro on February 26, 2017, 05:13:27 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 26, 2017, 04:47:07 PM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 26, 2017, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html)
it appears intercepts calculator isn't there anymore!? major bummer it was my bible for the Eblends. anyone know if it can be found elsewhere or have another calculator they've had good experience with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fomo found a great one...I have it too..I'll try and send it to you...It even accounts for what's in the tank too

Scratch that, we may be talking about  the same one?
i think we are referring to the same one. it was great- had the check boxes for full tank or not and calculated octane rating of the blend at the bottom of the page? hope someone can recover it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: ZSHO on February 26, 2017, 05:19:04 PM
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on February 26, 2017, 04:32:16 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html)
it appears intercepts calculator isn't there anymore!? major bummer it was my bible for the Eblends. anyone know if it can be found elsewhere or have another calculator they've had good experience with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html (http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html)  Z
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: Colorado-SHOBro on February 26, 2017, 06:55:42 PM
negative. ^ that gives me error code 404


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: hawkeye93 on February 26, 2017, 08:20:18 PM
Take off the period...

http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html (http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html)
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on February 26, 2017, 11:43:53 PM
Quote from: hawkeye93 on February 26, 2017, 08:20:18 PM
Take off the period...

http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html (http://ethanolpro.tripod.com/id213.html)
If anyone is interested in a sweet blend calculator PM me your email addy.
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: AJP turbo on February 26, 2017, 11:50:16 PM
Does it still work?
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on February 26, 2017, 11:51:28 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 26, 2017, 11:50:16 PM
Does it still work?
Yeah, does your copy not?



Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: AJP turbo on February 27, 2017, 12:17:18 AM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on February 26, 2017, 11:51:28 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 26, 2017, 11:50:16 PM
Does it still work?
Yeah, does your copy not?

Yeah I must've done something weird....Got it back.
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: lamrith on May 11, 2017, 11:53:01 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 24, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html (http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html)
Since that site is down now, I have been searching for another way to calculate.  found a couple online calculation sites, this one seemed nicest.  limitation though is that it is whole gallons only, not decimals.
http://www.georgebelton.com/E85Calculator.php (http://www.georgebelton.com/E85Calculator.php)

This one lets you use decimals, but it clears out the data you entered every time you calculate, so you have to remember it and reenter gallons every time.
http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php (http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php)
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: TopherSho on May 12, 2017, 10:10:46 AM
I need to learn to make apps ;) 

here is the spreadsheet i built based on the wallace racing results.


whoops.. broke it. brb.

Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: TopherSho on May 12, 2017, 10:32:31 AM
Fixed.

converting to CSV removed the formulas :P .. zipped up the XLS instead.

Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on May 12, 2017, 11:48:48 AM
Lamrith, did you get my email?
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: lamrith on May 12, 2017, 10:26:44 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 12, 2017, 11:48:48 AM
Lamrith, did you get my email?
Yup, thanks!!  I replied, did it not get back to you?

Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on May 12, 2017, 10:42:52 PM
Yeah, I finally got it.

Or maybe I just didn't have enough coffee and missed it initially?
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: lamrith on May 12, 2017, 10:46:11 PM
So here is a question for the nerds among us...  Both the calculator spreadsheets work great as does the link above.

What I wonder is if anyone can figure out (or already has) a formula that will tell you the amount of each fuel to use to make a certain blend at a certain total gallons?

So I have:
92 Octane E10
100octan E85
I want to make a total of 16gallons of E30, how much of each....  (This one is easy and I know answer already, but would like to be able to quick calc on the fly based on total gallons.

We can do it by manually adjusting the gallons in each cell, but there has to be a formula that will spit out the numbers?  Probably two formulas, but that could both reference a single total gallons cell.
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: lamrith on May 12, 2017, 11:57:01 PM
Well I just did some rough playing around with the spreadsheets.  Since we are normally looking at a fixed end mix and gallons, I broke it down to ratios of the total.

For 16Gallons of E30, you need 4gal of E85 and 11gal of E10.  So when mixing E10 and E85, to get E30 you need 26.6666667% of the total gallons to be E85 and the rest is E10.

To make E20 based on the same total of 15gal it takes 2 Gal of E85 and 13gal of E10.  So the ratio of E85 is 13.3333333477778% of the total volume.

This is far from perfect way to do it.  If you do not have E85 that is actually 85% (falling short and is actually 83, etc) then this will not be correct.  That is why I was hoping someone could work up a formula to do it on the fly to account for variances.
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: f8tlSHO on May 13, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
I used the spreadsheet fomocosho gave me, got an ethanol tester to check my e85. I made up 2 cheat sheets. One for 70% one for 75%. I normally fill up when my light comes on, 5.25 gallons e85 9.75 gallons e85 to equal 16 gallons. But I have the mixtures all figured out all the way to just adding 5 gallons of total fuel. I just keep these sheets in my car laminated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: hawkeye93 on May 13, 2017, 08:21:29 AM
I use the "E85 Mix Calculator" app on my (Android) phone, works great.  From Kenny Nissel.
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: lamrith on May 13, 2017, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on May 13, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
I used the spreadsheet fomocosho gave me, got an ethanol tester to check my e85. I made up 2 cheat sheets. One for 70% one for 75%. I normally fill up when my light comes on, 5.25 gallons e85 9.75 gallons e85 to equal 16 gallons. But I have the mixtures all figured out all the way to just adding 5 gallons of total fuel. I just keep these sheets in my car laminated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah I am tinkering with those sheets too.    So by 70 and 75% do you mean E25 and E30, or are you saying that the E85 you are seeing is only 70 and 75%?
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: f8tlSHO on May 13, 2017, 10:56:20 AM
Quote from: lamrith on May 13, 2017, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on May 13, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
I used the spreadsheet fomocosho gave me, got an ethanol tester to check my e85. I made up 2 cheat sheets. One for 70% one for 75%. I normally fill up when my light comes on, 5.25 gallons e85 9.75 gallons e85 to equal 16 gallons. But I have the mixtures all figured out all the way to just adding 5 gallons of total fuel. I just keep these sheets in my car laminated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah I am tinkering with those sheets too.    So by 70 and 75% do you mean E25 and E30, or are you saying that the E85 you are seeing is only 70 and 75%?
E85 percent, I run e30


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: lamrith on May 17, 2017, 06:16:44 PM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on May 13, 2017, 10:56:20 AM
Quote from: lamrith on May 13, 2017, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on May 13, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
I used the spreadsheet fomocosho gave me, got an ethanol tester to check my e85. I made up 2 cheat sheets. One for 70% one for 75%. I normally fill up when my light comes on, 5.25 gallons e85 9.75 gallons e85 to equal 16 gallons. But I have the mixtures all figured out all the way to just adding 5 gallons of total fuel. I just keep these sheets in my car laminated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah I am tinkering with those sheets too.    So by 70 and 75% do you mean E25 and E30, or are you saying that the E85 you are seeing is only 70 and 75%?
E85 percent, I run e30


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry to bug you on this, just digging into it again as I consider running E30 this summer. Your comment about 70% and 75% are what are throwing me off is all.

5.25gal E85 and 9.75gal E10 would net you 16gal of E36, not E30?
Is that what you do when you convert from E10 to E30 given there are 4 Gal of E10 still in the tank so you end up with a total of 19gal of E30?
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: f8tlSHO on May 17, 2017, 07:31:04 PM
The e85 isn't 85% it's 70% in winter and 75% in summer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Mixing e85 and premium fuel?
Post by: f8tlSHO on May 17, 2017, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: lamrith on May 17, 2017, 06:16:44 PM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on May 13, 2017, 10:56:20 AM
Quote from: lamrith on May 13, 2017, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on May 13, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
I used the spreadsheet fomocosho gave me, got an ethanol tester to check my e85. I made up 2 cheat sheets. One for 70% one for 75%. I normally fill up when my light comes on, 5.25 gallons e85 9.75 gallons e85 to equal 16 gallons. But I have the mixtures all figured out all the way to just adding 5 gallons of total fuel. I just keep these sheets in my car laminated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah I am tinkering with those sheets too.    So by 70 and 75% do you mean E25 and E30, or are you saying that the E85 you are seeing is only 70 and 75%?
E85 percent, I run e30


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry to bug you on this, just digging into it again as I consider running E30 this summer. Your comment about 70% and 75% are what are throwing me off is all.

5.25gal E85 and 9.75gal E10 would net you 16gal of E36, not E30?
Is that what you do when you convert from E10 to E30 given there are 4 Gal of E10 still in the tank so you end up with a total of 19gal of E30?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170518/79be0c75b1a23424377d1d9e1da6b5c7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170518/008247b7a0f6d153f56f8bfd0dee9acb.jpg)
Here are my 2 cheat sheets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
EhPortal 1.39.5 © 2024, WebDev