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JLT Oil Separator

Started by WhitePlatinumSHO, April 30, 2014, 09:36:13 PM

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Dxlnt1

Quote from: SHOdded on May 14, 2014, 12:00:30 AM
Problem is you have a GDI engine, and a TC one at that.  So any cleaner you add to the fuel only gets to the injectors and the combustion chamber.  You miss cleaning the intake tract, the intake valves, the turbo system, you get the picture.

Point taken, duly noted. Thanks. Now gotta add this to list of things to do. But first brakes.
2011 SHO, 3 Bar, AJP Turbo-Tune, ACES IV, Boostane 170 T-stat, PPE Catted DP's, Alpine Sound system, Touch screen HVAC controls, full window tint

JimiJak

It's a bit of a read, but totally worth it to check THIS out.
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

BiGMaC

Quote from: SHOdded on May 14, 2014, 12:00:30 AM
Problem is you have a GDI engine, and a TC one at that.  So any cleaner you add to the fuel only gets to the injectors and the combustion chamber.  You miss cleaning the intake tract, the intake valves, the turbo system, you get the picture. 

Point well taken Manu  :beer2: ... No fuel additive cleans the turbos, CAC and TB,   ....but there are some gains/cleaning of all components in direct contact with the combustion chamber with BG44 documented in the BG testing over a 61K time period in a 2011 SHO including the intake valves  :thumb:  ... It's here: http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/ and dyno evidence of restored HP and TQ... Just as FYI

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

SHOdded

Right on, Tom!  And the beauty of the catch can theory/system is it is preventive, rather than curative.  Enough of us are fanatical about the insides of the engines as we are about the outside of our cars.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Tuner Boost

Quote from: BiGMaC on May 14, 2014, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 14, 2014, 12:00:30 AM
Problem is you have a GDI engine, and a TC one at that.  So any cleaner you add to the fuel only gets to the injectors and the combustion chamber.  You miss cleaning the intake tract, the intake valves, the turbo system, you get the picture. 

Point well taken Manu  :beer2: ... No fuel additive cleans the turbos, CAC and TB,   ....but there are some gains/cleaning of all components in direct contact with the combustion chamber with BG44 documented in the BG testing over a 61K time period in a 2011 SHO including the intake valves  :thumb:  ... It's here: http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/ and dyno evidence of restored HP and TQ... Just as FYI


On todays DI engines there is actually zero effect from BG (which I like and use in Port injection engines) as no where in the entire fuel and combustion chamber does it ever contact any area but the piston tops to prevent any of this. Even though they did the most long term test, it is physically impossible for it to even keep injectors clean as they are operating at 2,000 plus PSI vs the old 45-55 PSI when the injectors would build up deposits over time. What they DID improve was doing an upper induction cleaning to help and that will result in removing some of the deposits resulting in increased power.....but that is dealing with the issue AFTER the deposits form. Best to prevent them from the start, and only a can that stops all the oil mist and gunk can do that. A JLT or other can WILL help slow the formation, so never a waste to use a can that only catches part of the mix....but only a can that catches all will prevent it, and we have the RX challenge open to any can on the market.

Here are good illustrations showing:

This is a port injection system showing how the valves were constantly showered with fuel spray from the injector, and top tier fuels (shell, mobil, etc. ) with detergent additives and other cleaners added to the fuel tank:



And here is direct injection. As you can see, no top tier fuel, no additive will ever touch the valves:



And further, here are pictures of a LS1 head from a 98 vette with 140k miles on it and just look, not a spec of deposits anywhere the fuel spray made contact:







Now here is a 2014 DI engine with 3200 miles on it...look close, the deposits are already forming, and the valve stem on the pic with it open shows the abrasive particles already begining to cause wear (and the guide will wear many times faster due to the material and hardness):




Now, using an upper induction cleaning is fine a few times, but be aware that every time these hard deposits are broken loose some are forced between the piston and cylinder wall causing scouring (scratches) and that is NOT good, so use a BG or SeaFoam rarely.

SHOdded

I'd like to add that any cleaning system you use, a motor oil/filter change within 500 miles is a MUST.  A second change in 1,000 miles or so is also very helpful per user experiences I have read on other forums.  Maybe read up on AutoRx instructions on how to use their system.  They also suggest replacing the PCV valve.

http://www.auto-rx.com/faqs-eng.shtml
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

BiGMaC

Tracey.... no argument on the lack of full system cleaning... Or on the idea of not letting deposits build up before using an upper system cleaner.  My post is not intended  to suggest a substitute for the catch can.... which is likely the solution that BG mentions in the article.  But... both of us must trust the boroscope pics in the article.  Again it is not the best solution... but the article is still one with multiple points to ponder.
http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/

Quote from: Tuner Boost on May 14, 2014, 11:47:02 AM
Quote from: BiGMaC on May 14, 2014, 10:17:07 AM
Quote from: SHOdded on May 14, 2014, 12:00:30 AM
Problem is you have a GDI engine, and a TC one at that.  So any cleaner you add to the fuel only gets to the injectors and the combustion chamber.  You miss cleaning the intake tract, the intake valves, the turbo system, you get the picture. 

Point well taken Manu  :beer2: ... No fuel additive cleans the turbos, CAC and TB,   ....but there are some gains/cleaning of all components in direct contact with the combustion chamber with BG44 documented in the BG testing over a 61K time period in a 2011 SHO including the intake valves  :thumb:  ... It's here: http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/ and dyno evidence of restored HP and TQ... Just as FYI


On todays DI engines there is actually zero effect from BG (which I like and use in Port injection engines) as no where in the entire fuel and combustion chamber does it ever contact any area but the piston tops to prevent any of this. Even though they did the most long term test, it is physically impossible for it to even keep injectors clean as they are operating at 2,000 plus PSI vs the old 45-55 PSI when the injectors would build up deposits over time. What they DID improve was doing an upper induction cleaning to help and that will result in removing some of the deposits resulting in increased power.....but that is dealing with the issue AFTER the deposits form. Best to prevent them from the start, and only a can that stops all the oil mist and gunk can do that. A JLT or other can WILL help slow the formation, so never a waste to use a can that only catches part of the mix....but only a can that catches all will prevent it, and we have the RX challenge open to any can on the market.

Here are good illustrations showing:

This is a port injection system showing how the valves were constantly showered with fuel spray from the injector, and top tier fuels (shell, mobil, etc. ) with detergent additives and other cleaners added to the fuel tank:



And here is direct injection. As you can see, no top tier fuel, no additive will ever touch the valves:



And further, here are pictures of a LS1 head from a 98 vette with 140k miles on it and just look, not a spec of deposits anywhere the fuel spray made contact:







Now here is a 2014 DI engine with 3200 miles on it...look close, the deposits are already forming, and the valve stem on the pic with it open shows the abrasive particles already begining to cause wear (and the guide will wear many times faster due to the material and hardness):




Now, using an upper induction cleaning is fine a few times, but be aware that every time these hard deposits are broken loose some are forced between the piston and cylinder wall causing scouring (scratches) and that is NOT good, so use a BG or SeaFoam rarely.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

Tuner Boost

Sho, glad you pointed that out!!! Can't tell you how many rod bearing failures after an upper induction cleaning that did NOT do the oil changes!   Just imagine what enters the oil during the process. Good catch.

Mac, totally agree with you.  The test is one of the most thorough I have seen and the comments as they watched the coking build and performance deteriorate are accurate. And the power was restored from the regular cleanings as well.

And these guys new exactly what they were doing.  Anyone that has had a proper BG treatment that had a good amount of miles on a DI engine can attest the difference is night and day better.

:thumbsup:


Tuner Boost

Here is the latest results of independent testing the RX can with others.  We see the same results with JLT and Moroso:

Test Results

- I'll summarize the test to date. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR.

Phase 2 Test Results
- The Weather has been average northern Ohio spring weather. Some rain, fog, cool nights, warm and hot days.

- Driving has been about the same through both phases. I good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 40% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, with a few very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling, and no towing.

- What they caught this time might have been predicted by some (after the results of phase 1). RX was first in line, with the UPR after it to catch anything the RX might miss.
The combined volume of gunk was half of that caught in the first phase. The first phase had some cold weather which accounted for more water in the mix and the higher volume.
The contents from the RX can was mostly oil/fuel, and had a strong chemical/solvent smell again. It caught 35.5cc total which is approximately 7 1/8 tsp.
The UPR can caught about the same mix of oil/fuel, but didn't smell quite as strong. Halfway through this phase, Joe@UPR asked me to remove the mesh on the exit side of the UPR can. I did that, but noticed no difference in what it was catching. But since it was second in line, and there was little to catch, that's understandable. The UPR can caught 1.75cc total which is approximately 1/3 tsp. With so little collecting this time, I monitored the contents of the UPR can but didn't empty it until the end of the test.

- Phase 2 Totals:
RX - 35.5cc
UPR - 1.75cc

- Other tidbits include the 'first in line' RX can caught 95% of the total volume. The exit hoses were very clean from both cans. The last few tanks of gas have produced slightly higher than my normal MPGs, but it's too early to tell on that.



We urge all to do the test in reverse as well to be fair and accurate.

Tomc612

#24
My JLT works and does its Job..I see about 1/2 tablespoon @ 4-5000k's in the colder month's and not much during the Summer. I run a S&B breather in the front.

The Bone

Oil cant get to the turbos because they are upstream of the PVC valve. The amount of oil they will catch is minimal but may be worth the install. I to am curious as to how much you will catch. They have them on GT500's and they do catch some oil but it seems to be very little. It all depends on how you drive the car. if you are on the pipe all the time than you may see some oil but Hard to see how oil will get in a intake system with the positive pressure in the intake produced by the turbos. I 6think this only occurs during normal driving when the motor is producing vacuum.
12 SHO

FPO

I would say my jlt catch can works...

I cleaned it  15 days  ago
about 10 ml of oil


FoMoCoSHO

Quote from: The Bone on August 10, 2014, 07:29:18 PM
Oil cant get to the turbos because they are upstream of the PVC valve. The amount of oil they will catch is minimal but may be worth the install. I to am curious as to how much you will catch. They have them on GT500's and they do catch some oil but it seems to be very little. It all depends on how you drive the car. if you are on the pipe all the time than you may see some oil but Hard to see how oil will get in a intake system with the positive pressure in the intake produced by the turbos. I 6think this only occurs during normal driving when the motor is producing vacuum.
That isn't accurate. Under boost, PCV operation stops and and pressure is evacuated out the clean side right into the front turbo inlet.

BiGMaC

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on December 14, 2014, 02:36:38 PM
Quote from: The Bone on August 10, 2014, 07:29:18 PM
Oil cant get to the turbos because they are upstream of the PVC valve. The amount of oil they will catch is minimal but may be worth the install. I to am curious as to how much you will catch. They have them on GT500's and they do catch some oil but it seems to be very little. It all depends on how you drive the car. if you are on the pipe all the time than you may see some oil but Hard to see how oil will get in a intake system with the positive pressure in the intake produced by the turbos. I 6think this only occurs during normal driving when the motor is producing vacuum.
That isn't accurate. Under boost, PCV operation stops and and pressure is evacuated out the clean side right into the front turbo inlet.

This is true!  Just look at the tubing.  If your not VTA the compressed oil vapor is also returned to the turbo intake tubes.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

FoMoCoSHO

The Ford tech training video shows this clearly btw.....