I've been kind of working on this in the background but I can't seem to make it happen. Maybe somebody on here knows someone that can get this done.
There's two ways it can happen:
1. Modify camshaft on head without a DI pump (no you can't just use the existing cam from the other head) and modify it or copy it and put DI lobes on it. Make a new valve cover to mount it and new hard lines. Split the incoming low pressure feed lines (you'll need to do an in tank fuel pump upgrade as well). I believe that you could split the wires between the two spill valves and work. Of course testing to prove my theory would need to be done.
2. Create a reservoir/DI pump mount with basically just the lobes from the cam, picture a power steering pump assembly - you'll need to make a mount to affix it to the block of the engine and figure out a pulley system to drive it off the belts. You would mount second DI pump to this resevoir (to hold oil to lubricate the lobes and pump). New hard lines, split incoming lines etc, same as #1.
#2 is much easier to create and make happen, it would definitely fit/mount on the truck and making pulleys etc would work. I would suggest a 1:1 ratio so that the cam spins the same rpm as the stock cam. (When I say cam I mean a rod 2" long with the same DI pump lobes as the stock pump mounted inside of a reservoir that holds oil and the top is a mount for the DI pump.
Will this cause issues with belt slippage etc? No idea but I think it could work, who knows if it will.
Somebody take my idea and run with it, if you can make it and you want to be nice give me a royalty for my idea, if not then take it and just help make more fuel for the truck and cars.
With this idea I believe we could make enough fuel for 1K+ HP on gas and 800 or so on E85 with stock DI pumps, when the new Bosch pumps come out add 50% supposedly.
Wouldn't it be easier to just add in an independent EFI system? Then it can be tuned, extra fuel is being mixed in the intake track to be supplemented by the DFI (also tuned)? Then you can run electric pumps and such.
4DR, what happened with your auxiliary injectors you fabbed onto your IM?
Was there any success to that venture?
Why not settle on a fifth port type additional injection, like the MS community has been using with success?
Or, more recently, conversion to PI? XD
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We have had cams ground with 4 lobes instead of 3 for some GM applications with good results (the lobes that drive the piston on the DI pump).
adding another lobe to cam to increase DI pump output sounds like a great idea. However, not sure the pump actually has enough capacity or that the injectors can flow enough. 500HP seems about the limit for the stock pump and injectors.
Why not just do what the Ecoboost race engines do? Another DI pump and camshaft on the other head?
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I was told ford racing went back to a single pump. Did someone say cam? Hmmm maybe....
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OR ... find someone to build a replacement cam driven pump that is capable of 4x the output of the stock unit.
Quote from: walt460 on November 07, 2014, 01:59:14 PM500HP seems about the limit for the stock pump and injectors.
Calculating an approximate 23% drive train loss, my 617awhp pull places my SHO at, or just slightly over 800hp at the motor.
Furthermore, there were no changes to any portions of my fueling system to obtain that achievement.
Stock injectors, stock pumps (both LPFP & HPFP), stock rails, you name it. Stock stock stock.
In other words, the stock set up can handle the demands adequately and beyond. Just FYI.
Quote from: bpd1151 on November 07, 2014, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: walt460 on November 07, 2014, 01:59:14 PM500HP seems about the limit for the stock pump and injectors.
Calculating an approximate 23% drive train loss, my 617awhp pull places my SHO at, or just slightly over 800hp at the motor.
Furthermore, there were no changes to any portions of my fueling system to obtain that achievement.
Stock injectors, stock pumps (both LPFP & HPFP), stock rails, you name it. Stock stock stock.
In other words, the stock set up can handle the demands adequately and beyond. Just FYI.
But......with meth
2010 RCM non PP
K&N panel filter
sp534 @ 30
unleashed 93 performance+boost 3bar
more to come.....
Quote from: glock-coma on November 07, 2014, 07:40:28 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on November 07, 2014, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: walt460 on November 07, 2014, 01:59:14 PM500HP seems about the limit for the stock pump and injectors.
Calculating an approximate 23% drive train loss, my 617awhp pull places my SHO at, or just slightly over 800hp at the motor.
Furthermore, there were no changes to any portions of my fueling system to obtain that achievement.
Stock injectors, stock pumps (both LPFP & HPFP), stock rails, you name it. Stock stock stock.
In other words, the stock set up can handle the demands adequately and beyond. Just FYI.
But......with meth
2010 RCM non PP
K&N panel filter
sp534 @ 30
unleashed 93 performance+boost 3bar
more to come.....
Spraying TWO nozzles at that...
:)
"Calculating an approximate 23% drive train loss, my 617awhp pull places my SHO at, or just slightly over 800hp at the motor.
Furthermore, there were no changes to any portions of my fueling system to obtain that achievement.
Stock injectors, stock pumps (both LPFP & HPFP), stock rails, you name it. Stock stock stock.
In other words, the stock set up can handle the demands adequately and beyond. Just FYI."
All I can say is that if you got to over 500HP with the stock pump and injectors, you are not running 93 octane gasoline. What are you doing to make that power?
Quote from: walt460 on November 08, 2014, 12:32:18 PMAll I can say is that if you got to over 500HP with the stock pump and injectors, you are not running 93 octane gasoline. What are you doing to make that power?
He's methanol injected.
Quote from: walt460 on November 08, 2014, 12:32:18 PM
"Calculating an approximate 23% drive train loss, my 617awhp pull places my SHO at, or just slightly over 800hp at the motor.
Furthermore, there were no changes to any portions of my fueling system to obtain that achievement.
Stock injectors, stock pumps (both LPFP & HPFP), stock rails, you name it. Stock stock stock.
In other words, the stock set up can handle the demands adequately and beyond. Just FYI."
All I can say is that if you got to over 500HP with the stock pump and injectors, you are not running 93 octane gasoline. What are you doing to make that power?
could you please elaborate why?
The limit of the stock DI pump is enough fuel to make about 500HP. No matter what you do, it just can not provide more fuel than that. Bosch does not (apparently) does not make a larger pump for this application. Yes, you can overdrive the pump by increasing the number of lobes on the cam, and this will get you more fuel at lower engine speeds, but you will still hit the pump's capacity limit, just at a lower rpm.
Adding a secondary fuel source does work. Spray methanol into the upper intake, add 4 incremental gas fuel injectors into the upper intake with their own fuel pump, whatever, the additional fuel must come from a source other than the stock DI pump.
Quote from: bpd1151 on November 07, 2014, 07:10:40 PM
Quote from: walt460 on November 07, 2014, 01:59:14 PM500HP seems about the limit for the stock pump and injectors.
Calculating an approximate 23% drive train loss, my 617awhp pull places my SHO at, or just slightly over 800hp at the motor.
Furthermore, there were no changes to any portions of my fueling system to obtain that achievement.
Stock injectors, stock pumps (both LPFP & HPFP), stock rails, you name it. Stock stock stock.
In other words, the stock set up can handle the demands adequately and beyond. Just FYI.
That's not on anything CLOSE to resembling pump gas JUST FYI.
Updating the in tank pumps to allow for E85 allows people to run 600WHP (like me) on pump gas (E85), easy peasy. Just need the aux injector setup and a controller. :)
Hopefully ProEFI can finalize their controller this spring that will work on the truck and car and you'll see this vehicle open up for power mods. Aux injecting is the way to go with Ecoboosts.
Also according to ATP we both maxed out their turbos 604 for me, 618 for you is probably just the 3% difference you'll see between dynos. 26psi is the max you're getting out of the ATP turbo upgrades so if someone wants more than that it will take a custom turbo kit setup. I don't know how much an aftermarket IC would make a difference at those boost levels, would be fun to run a A/W setup to find out. I now have the facilities to do build a custom turbo kit in house with Black Market Racing but what's the demand? I would think almost none so for a small business like mine it's not worth the R&D to make it happen but giving people an option to run the ATP turbos with E85 is and I'm looking forward to being able to offer that turn key setup hopefully this spring or next summer depending on ProEFI's pace.
The thing about doing dual DI pumps that I was always scared about is how does the ECU control the 2nd spill valve if we parallel them up, will that just work or will there be problems, I don't have the funds or time to R&D that option and I was told by John Maddox that built the Ford racing motors that the injectors alone for DI setup were around $1500 each.... That makes the dual DI pump a no go to me.
$9,000 just for the injectors? Yes, I'm out too. Might be worth buying a different toy at that price. But honestly, with arp turbos and e85 with fuel controllers, that seems reasonable.