Ecoboost Performance Forum

Racing Department => Dyno Results => Topic started by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:01:10 AM

Title: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:01:10 AM
These are a series of pulls on the same dyno from this past fall....Also note that kyle04 has dyno results from THIS SAME dyno for his  livernois tune. He went a week or so after me this past fall. His numbers were a best of 356hp/385tq and are posted in the dyno section

Below is a stock tune with the 2 bar sensor. However I do have catless down pipes and the air raid for all these pulls

I too am surprised by the results but I have been working on this for the better part of 2 years and have done hundreds of tune revisions....Unlike some of the calibrators out there, I have the benefit of owning the car to do my own testing on my own time frame with no limitations on revisions. SO I contribute a lot of it to that

All dyno runs and tunes that I run are also with the stock thermostat and stock spark plugs and 93 octane Sunoco pump gas.

Feel free to research the power numbers for the dyno at PRL motorsports in Export, PA....I already have and nothing seems out of line with me.

My previous tuning session in the fall was a best of 394/435 for my old unleashed tune and 392/465 for one of my tunes....I felt I made some breakthroughs and wanted to see where I stood with the new tunes

Also, take a look at the PID "load absolute". I'm not exactly sure what that is but it seems to me that it may be some sort of calculated torque value. It would make sense that the ECU would have this because it does know the tq level that is being delivered...Many of the tables are based on it and as some of you may know, the way to increase boost in the tune is not to actually command more boost but to command more torque then the ECU translates that into a load value then that is translated into an airflow requirement "desired tip"

I logged absolute load....So everyway I look at it the numbers add up to me.
Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:11:03 AM
THis is also a stock tune with only changes to swap in a 3 bar map sensor...Very similar to the bone stock boost tune....As it should be

This may be confusing but the MAP sensor has no effect on the power it simply reads airflow as determined by speed density...The ECU just needs to know which sensor is in the car
Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:13:58 AM
This is a 2 bar sensor tune

Stock boost levels but with added spark and with the throttle open...SO for people that may want more power but without the extra boost this tune would be for you

I have found that even with boost levels that are the same when the throttle is open the power delivered is much better and the turbo doesn't have to work as hard..It's simply more efficient when the turbo doesn't have to fight a slightly closed throttle body
Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:17:07 AM
This is a 2 BAR map sensor tune

This is 14 psi and additional spark. This is the max boost I would use on the stock map sensor. There is still some room left to allow for boost spikes. This would be for someone that does not wish to purchase a 3 bar map sensor.
Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:28:55 AM
This is the best I could do with the 3 bar map sensor and about 17 psi. This is very impressive....When everything is working in sync and the ECU is "happy" the power really becomes available..There are other limiters at play from the datalogs I have been seeing. Mainly with spark.

I believe the reason for the power increase is mainly due to increased boost at low rpm, steady boost levels from 2500 rpm to redline and spark....At the load levels for this run which were about 1.7 and IAT2's were about 100-130 degrees F I was about 16 degrees spark and most logs I see for people without meth are as low as 8 degrees....8 degrees will change power dramatically...Add to that the smooth even boost and increased boost down low....

I have data logs for every run listed above....

Also on this tune there is a fuel pressure dip around 3000 rpm but you can see that is where the tq is high on the graph so the fuel system was taxed until boost regulated...That may have been a 19 psi spike. And when fuel pressure dipped it was only about 1550 psi so I will take that all day...everywhere else was 2200...Fuel delivery seems to be a lot stronger when the high pressure pump has the limitations lifted from it's operation.

I also ran a tune about 18.5 psi and it was about the same as this so I run this tune everyday and have been for months now

Here Is also a log for the 17 psi run...Actually I think the desired TIP is 220 KPA So it's targeting 17 psi at the TIP which is pre throttle body and you lose a 1/4 pound of boost or so at the map sensor even when throttle is open
Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on June 07, 2016, 01:46:27 AM
Boom!

Great job!

Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on June 07, 2016, 01:51:37 AM
At 20% drive line loss which is conservative you're looking at minimal...

480CHP/633 CTQ

On pump gas!

Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 02:00:38 AM
I would love to see some people run 15-16 psi down low and 17 psi midrange and top end on E30.....I don't have much E85 around me and don't care to mess with it but I'm going to guess it should do well
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: SHOdded on June 07, 2016, 06:39:53 AM
Pretty impressive results, AJ.  Would love to know your maintenance products & routines/timings for the SHO btw.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: J-Will on June 07, 2016, 07:31:31 AM
Good work AJ.  Do you feel as though you've reached a 'daily driver maximum' with your 3 bar 17psi tune?

We need you to do some testing with ACES fuel 'catalyst'.

It looks like your spark and fuel pressure *might* benefit from it.  I hope it to be a replacement for meth to boost octane.  Let me know if you ever find yourself around DC... I'll give you enough for a few tanks
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: SHOnUup on June 07, 2016, 07:52:56 AM
Impressive numbers...now go get some time slips!!!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: BiGMaC on June 07, 2016, 08:37:37 AM
Very impressive aj! Good work.

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Scott4957 on June 07, 2016, 09:28:16 AM
Awesome and great work! Thank you for sharing this! I'm sure I will have all kinds of questions once I dig into the log. Do you by chance have a log of a street pull, 0-100 on this tune, just trying to compare apples to apples. I'm also curious how you think this would run if it where 20 degrees warmer or cooler? Do you think that fuel pressure drop would be too low on a 40 degree day? And do you think a significant amount of timing would be pulled on an 80 degree day? And if so are you looking to run a small amount of meth to maintain this performance over a wide range of conditions?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: glock-coma on June 07, 2016, 09:50:28 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160607/3c2a694ed2996892e86bdfd9a9d0519b.jpg)
Good work, great numbers.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 10:00:24 AM
Very impressive!  Would love to see some time slips.  That torque would make for a serious 100'.

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 12:04:05 PM
Yeah im looking forward to time slips as well...and scott yeah i expect a slight reduction at frigid temps but the 1500-1600 minimum that i hit with this i feel good about the headroom that is left in it for cooler temps....also its not as low as some other tunes i have seen that are currently tearing it up

And yeah timing will be pulled as the temps rise...same as any other tune that is properly set up....so instead of being at 16 degrees i may be at 14 on a warmer day....although ambient temps are in play they arent the main factor..its the temp in the manifold...iat2
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 12:13:51 PM
Not  really looking play with meth..although i cant deny the benefits...but i daily this car and just dont care to do the work and its fast enough and im not crazy about the fuel tuning that i see

I think i would do an even 20 psi and the same spark as i run with 17 psi with meth if i did...if you see my graphs my boost is even as seen in the log but look how bad torque drops off...to me that means that at high rpm the turbo is out of "breath " and past its efficiency....20 psi midrange would look good i think
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: J-Will on June 07, 2016, 01:16:56 PM
20 is roughly double stock, and even 17 is few more than LMS (I believe their more performance tune tops out at 15).  You are also creating more boost, sooner. 

Are you worried about wearing down the turbos prematurely?

In my novice head, is seems easy to up the boost and call it a day.  Yet thats not the approach other turners are doing.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:28:58 PM
Quote from: J-Will on June 07, 2016, 01:16:56 PM
20 is roughly double stock, and even 17 is few more than LMS (I believe their more performance tune tops out at 15).  You are also creating more boost, sooner. 

Are you worried about wearing down the turbos prematurely?

In my novice head, is seems easy to up the boost and call it a day.  Yet thats not the approach other turners are doing.

Im running less than the meth heads and less than ive seen in some unleashed tunes...and based on wastegate duty cycles and the relatively short time you spend at wot im not really worried about destroying $500 turbos

Lms doesnt seem to do much custom tuning so it doesnt surpris me their tunes run less boost

Actually its not easy to "up" the boost and call it a day as the only way i found to get the boost to come in where and when i wanted it was to figure it out myself..based on some logs ive seen , commanding boost is not simple for some tuners

I havent even seen spark commanded properly

So what is the approach other tuners are taking?...im actually curious on how you percieve their approach on tunes to be?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:35:02 PM
Also the logs that were posted from lms had a target boost of about 189 kpa in their 3bar tune....in my 14 psi 2 bar tune i targeted about 193 kpa.....stock 2 bar will read 206 kpa so i wouldnt even use a 3 bar for lms boost levels
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 01:43:04 PM
AJP, your dyno graph reminds me of a friends Eclipse from back in the 90's.  It had an Apexi boost controller (sliders for boost by rpm).  In that car, he could get away with a lot of boost down low, but then had to taper off significantly due to the fuel system and turbo efficiency.

Have you figured out any way to play with the torque management?  I'm wondering if you are getting significant power cuts in low gears? 
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: ZSHO on June 07, 2016, 01:48:00 PM
Congrat"s on the newly found" fountain of youth "and may it live long and Prosper my friend.  Z    :thumb:
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Scott4957 on June 07, 2016, 01:49:09 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:28:58 PM
So what is the approach other tuners are taking?...im actually curious on how you percieve their approach on tunes to be?

I am wondering the same thing. From what I understand, commanded boost can't be adjusted by gear or RPM, I see that boost is quite a bit lower in 1'st and 2nd gear on my tune. I also notice that the WGDC seems to follow this. So is the WGDC what is limiting boost in these lower gears, and is that something that you can adjust as the tuner or is the car/tune limiting torque or load in those gears? Again, i would be curious to see a street log to compare to mine, the dyno log is just a little snip of my 0-110mph logs. One thing is for sure, you have to be doing damn near as well on that tune as I am on meth and you are running less boost. Spark seems about the same, again just looking at that small section that matches up with my logs. Well done, it appears you figured something out. 

I get your take on meth. My thought would be a small nozzle just to give you some extra fuel on those cold days and to give you the extra cooling on the hot days. Maybe its a tune you only run when you are out at the strip or tearing up the streets on the weekends. It does appear that the dip in your torque and a bit in the horsepower is associated with the dip in fuel pressure. Nothing that seems significant but it was interesting seeing how that lined up in the log and the dyno graph! Thanks again for sharing this stuff, your posts combined with some books I have been reading have finally got me over the initial hump of getting a grasp on understanding this stuff. Still trying to get a good grasp on what parameters are changed on this particular motor to get the results you want, but I am picking that up piece by piece as well. If I'm ever out your way I owe you a beer!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:51:30 PM
Quote from: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 01:43:04 PM
AJP, your dyno graph reminds me of a friends Eclipse from back in the 90's.  It had an Apexi boost controller (sliders for boost by rpm).  In that car, he could get away with a lot of boost down low, but then had to taper off significantly due to the fuel system and turbo efficiency.

Have you figured out any way to play with the torque management?  I'm wondering if you are getting significant power cuts in low gears?

No torque management in low gears...there is a level of tq management for every shift up and down ...i use tq management for the sake of drivetrain preservation ...not all datalogs ive seen have kept that in tact

The level or torque i command is based on pedal position and not gear based...i havent seen any way that the ecu alters boost by gear...and i dont see it being nessasary with awd....i stomp the pedal and let it eat
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 01:58:42 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 01:51:30 PM
Quote from: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 01:43:04 PM
AJP, your dyno graph reminds me of a friends Eclipse from back in the 90's.  It had an Apexi boost controller (sliders for boost by rpm).  In that car, he could get away with a lot of boost down low, but then had to taper off significantly due to the fuel system and turbo efficiency.

Have you figured out any way to play with the torque management?  I'm wondering if you are getting significant power cuts in low gears?

No torque management in low gears...there is a level of tq management for every shift up and down ...i use tq management for the sake of drivetrain preservation ...not all datalogs ive seen have kept that in tact

The level or torque i command is based on pedal position and not gear based...i havent seen any way that the ecu alters boost by gear...and i dont see it being nessasary with awd....i stomp the pedal and let it eat

Interesting.  I assumed (and I know what that does, lol) that there was a form of torque management that is gear dependent built in from the factory.  Using Torque to monitor my car stock, it looks like I have less boost in first gear.  Maybe it's just due to less load/time under load?

I had a GM car and no tuner was able to eliminate the torque management in that particular application.  Probably for the best since it spun bad regardless.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: ElvenSho on June 07, 2016, 02:13:37 PM
How about you send that tune over to me so i can test it against my unleashed tune this weekend at the track? :) is that even possible?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Scott4957 on June 07, 2016, 02:26:16 PM
Quote from: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 01:58:42 PM
Interesting.  I assumed (and I know what that does, lol) that there was a form of torque management that is gear dependent built in from the factory.  Using Torque to monitor my car stock, it looks like I have less boost in first gear.  Maybe it's just due to less load/time under load?

I was wondering the same thing. Obviously I have the throttle 100% open on this. Green is RPM's, Orange is boost and Red is WGDC. All my logs have that dip in boost at the end of 1st gear, and it seems to coincide with the wastegate opening. Question is why? Traction control is off but I think the non PP cars or maybe just the MKS has some additional nanny systems that can't be turned off like the PP cars. AJ, do you get this same dip in boost?

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/scott4957/boost_zpsjt1dedob.jpg)
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 04:04:09 PM
Ill try and write more later but its not tq management giving you the low boost in low gears...you just need better boost control...look at my log for my 17psi pull...watch my boost at redline and see how much more wastegate duty it takes to maintain that boost
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Scott4957 on June 07, 2016, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 04:04:09 PM
Ill try and write more later but its not tq management giving you the low boost in low gears...you just need better boost control...look at my log for my 17psi pull...watch my boost at redline and see how much more wastegate duty it takes to maintain that boost

Thanks, I appreciate the input. I do see what you are saying about your log. I am at 90% now in 4th, but WDDC sags a bit in 3rd and I think it would keep the boost better to redline if it was higher. I just want to speak intelligently to the changes I want made if I ask Torrie to do something different. I will have to look over past revisions and see how or if WGDC has changed to tell if he has been working on that or not. He may be limiting boost in first and second to ensure a safe tune as well, i really don't know.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 06:27:20 PM
You cant really limit boost by gear....or change wastegate duty cycle...the wastegates are doing what they need to , to achieve the boost..by nature its just hard to hit target boost in low gears...the speed of the rpm sweep and less load being applied makes it hard to hit target boost in 1st and 2nd

The tq reductions and management happens at the shifts for the most part...if any of you are getting low boost in low gears its due to the tuning...not tq reductions...look at your "desired tip" when you log...if you are not hitting des tip its not a matter of tq reductions..when tq management is being applied you will see a "tq source value" and desired tip will be reduced also
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Vortech347 on June 07, 2016, 07:49:22 PM
Very cool!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 08:57:39 PM
J-will, so what approach do you think other tuners are taking to achieve power?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 09:09:13 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 08:57:39 PM
J-will, so what approach do you think other tuners are taking to achieve power?

I don't know all of the variable, but I suspect that both smoke and mirrors are included.  LOL

My very, very basic understanding of late model Fords is that the majority of tuning is just altering the demanded torque.  The ECU does most of the in between work.  Is that correct?

In some ways, I see the modern tuning as similar to a piggy back system since you can't, as far as I know, actually control the timing, fuel, boost, etc. to a great degree.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 09:20:34 PM
Quote from: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 09:09:13 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 08:57:39 PM
J-will, so what approach do you think other tuners are taking to achieve power?

I don't know all of the variable, but I suspect that both smoke and mirrors are included.  LOL

My very, very basic understanding of late model Fords is that the majority of tuning is just altering the demanded torque.  The ECU does most of the in between work.  Is that correct?

In some ways, I see the modern tuning as similar to a piggy back system since you can't, as far as I know, actually control the timing, fuel, boost, etc. to a great degree.

Really it all comes down to airflow and cylinder pressure....i would say just the ecoboost use the demanded torque model....a mustang cant give anymore tq once the throttle is open ...an ecoboost with turbo can deliver variable tq due to turbo right...

Piggyback are the worst....not comparable here at all

We basically have full control with sct software....and can change values within the range of values allowed by the ecu

When you load a custom tune. You are writing a tune the same way ford does...you are just setting the values to what you want....we are basically playing ford calibrator

You absolutely CAN control boost spark or timing and fuel to whatever you want...its called tuning....with your torrie or lms tune, you arent going over top of the factory calibration or manipulating the tune you are re-writing the calibration

No smoke and mirrrors...you are changing the operation of the hardware

It would be really easy to run 30 psi and 40 degrees of spark and blow the head through the hood...we have that kind of control
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 09:26:55 PM
Jwill what makes you think you cant control those items such as spark fuel or boost?...where did you hear that

Im not sure if you can read log well but that's exactly what ive done...commanded the spark fuel and boost to precisely what i wanted
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: sholxgt on June 07, 2016, 09:27:22 PM
Thanks for the info!  My other current day knowledge is based off a friends Focus ST that operates similarly.

The demanded torque idea is new to me.  I didn't know that you could still also set the timing at x rpm/throttle position as well.  What happens if you set the timing, but the tune does not meet the demanded torque?

These do not sound like the easiest vehicles to tune.  Tuning used to be just spark and fuel (both alterable for when and how) and then the car made whatever power/torque it did with no overriding.

Please excuse any ignorance.  I am enjoying the tutorial.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 09:31:20 PM
The tuning is rediculous...there are a few thousand items to change if you want

The timing you set is based on engine load not pedal or throttle position

If load is x then there is a table for spark based on load
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: J-Will on June 08, 2016, 06:44:20 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 08:57:39 PM
J-will, so what approach do you think other tuners are taking to achieve power?

Thats a good question.  We have reputable tuners, however they are for-profit, so there is a limit to what they share with the community.  From what I gather, adjustments can be broken down into these high level catagories:
increase in boost - how that is achieved seems to be indirect, using a method to call for more power which in turn increases boost demand
Fuel - We've heard from both the big tuners that fuel runs out quick on our platform, which is why meth is recommended.  This implies that they have some control over supplying it. 
Spark - Its recommended to change plugs to a colder heat range.  I assume tuners are advancing timing
Transmission - messing with shift firmness/ speed

Looking at the list, its a no-brainer.  Those are the basic components to a combustion engine.  Make more power by adjusting the spark, and supplying more air (increasing boost) and fuel.  I am by no means saying that is an easy thing to accomplish.  However, like I mentioned, the secret sauce remains secret. 

We get to ask you questions, because you did the work.  That arms us (me anyway) to ask better questions to a tuner.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 08, 2016, 05:33:49 PM
J will there really is no secret sauce...get boost up and add as much spark as your fuel and individual car will tolerate and the power is there

The method of adding boost seems indirect but its the system that ford and most drive by wire cars employ today...everything starts at the pedal...the driver demands more torque from the pedal then the car takes over and gives you what you think you want

You can set timing or spark to whatever you want...basically with forced induction tuning , you set spark just shy of whatever the fuel can tolerate

We have full control of fuel with sct

Its really not fair or accurate to say the 3.5 ecoboost runs out of fuel quickly....but the limitation is a hardware issue not a tuning issue

The fuel system we have is actually pretty strong and impressive..we are increasing hp/tq way over stock ...its unfair to say the fuel sytem is taxed because we cant add 200hp and 300ft lbs without needing an upgrade....what fuel system wouldnt?

The way i increased output on this tune is exactly how ford would...it can be done that way with sct but i dont know how other tuners are utilizing the software...there are ways to force a result that is less than ideal

Thats why its also retarded when people say that you can get a same result by either doing more spark and less boost or more boost and less spark.....you tune max spark at all boost for a properly tuned car
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Sinister-CO on June 08, 2016, 10:14:45 PM


Quote from: AJP turbo on June 08, 2016, 05:33:49 PM
Thats why its also retarded when people say that you can get a same result by either doing more spark and less boost or more boost and less spark.....you tune max spark at all boost for a properly tuned car

You might be generalizing a bit here. Some platforms respond better to timing and others to boost. I suppose the ecoboost might fit this bill, but haven't we seen logs where some run more boost with less timing and others more timing with less boost? Sounds like you've found the sweet spot for your car. I doubt many other tuners would put in the time that you have.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 08, 2016, 10:23:50 PM
Quote from: Sinister-CO on June 08, 2016, 10:14:45 PM


Quote from: AJP turbo on June 08, 2016, 05:33:49 PM
Thats why its also retarded when people say that you can get a same result by either doing more spark and less boost or more boost and less spark.....you tune max spark at all boost for a properly tuned car

You might be generalizing a bit here. Some platforms respond better to timing and others to boost. I suppose the ecoboost might fit this bill, but haven't we seen logs where some run more boost with less timing and others more timing with less boost? Sounds like you've found the sweet spot for your car. I doubt many other tuners would put in the time that you have.

You always are running less than mbt spark with pump gas and forced induction...so the fuel is the limitation...so in that case you want as much spark as the fuel will tolerate at any load

I know what you are thinking...but there can be differences in what a persons car/fuel combo can handle from car to car...but all things being equal . Its all about cylinder pressure...so max spark on max boost will always be best until the boost is so high the turbo becomes inefficient
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 08, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
More boost and less spark would be needless stress on the turbo

You simply want the most cylinder pressure the fuel can handle at the lowest boost for the sake of the turbo

All the tunes except the stock one in my dyno testing were at the max spark i saw as safe according to the knock sensor...so less boost was always less power
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Sinister-CO on June 09, 2016, 08:33:01 AM
Yeah, I get it. I was just saying that different platforms respond differently. Regardless it's obvious that you've got a good tune running there. Nice work!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 11:47:33 AM
Shodded you asked before about my maintenance schedule......Just normal stuff really''

At 2k I put in amsoil severe gear PTU and RDU fluid and plan on changing them both every 25-30k or 2 years..Amsoil recommends those to go much longer though

At 2k I put in Amsoil LV signature trans fluid also flushed the converter also...Plan on doing that maybe at 50k...Amsoil says to go much longer than that also

Oil is Amsoil signature 0w-30 every 5k with amsoil filter

I have 20k on her now

I still have stock plugs and may put new stock plugs in at 50k and probably new coolant and brake fluid then too.

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: JDW1 on June 09, 2016, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 08, 2016, 05:33:49 PM
J will there really is no secret sauce...get boost up and add as much spark as your fuel and individual car will tolerate and the power is there

The method of adding boost seems indirect but its the system that ford and most drive by wire cars employ today...everything starts at the pedal...the driver demands more torque from the pedal then the car takes over and gives you what you think you want

You can set timing or spark to whatever you want...basically with forced induction tuning , you set spark just shy of whatever the fuel can tolerate

We have full control of fuel with sct

Its really not fair or accurate to say the 3.5 ecoboost runs out of fuel quickly....but the limitation is a hardware issue not a tuning issue

The fuel system we have is actually pretty strong and impressive..we are increasing hp/tq way over stock ...its unfair to say the fuel sytem is taxed because we cant add 200hp and 300ft lbs without needing an upgrade....what fuel system wouldnt?

The way i increased output on this tune is exactly how ford would...it can be done that way with sct but i dont know how other tuners are utilizing the software...there are ways to force a result that is less than ideal

Thats why its also retarded when people say that you can get a same result by either doing more spark and less boost or more boost and less spark.....you tune max spark at all boost for a properly tuned car

I don't see how you run that much boost and don't see FP drop to unsafe levels.  I've had to dial back way before that level.  It's very impressive. 
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 12:08:18 PM
Quote from: JDW1 on June 09, 2016, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 08, 2016, 05:33:49 PM
J will there really is no secret sauce...get boost up and add as much spark as your fuel and individual car will tolerate and the power is there

The method of adding boost seems indirect but its the system that ford and most drive by wire cars employ today...everything starts at the pedal...the driver demands more torque from the pedal then the car takes over and gives you what you think you want

You can set timing or spark to whatever you want...basically with forced induction tuning , you set spark just shy of whatever the fuel can tolerate

We have full control of fuel with sct

Its really not fair or accurate to say the 3.5 ecoboost runs out of fuel quickly....but the limitation is a hardware issue not a tuning issue

The fuel system we have is actually pretty strong and impressive..we are increasing hp/tq way over stock ...its unfair to say the fuel sytem is taxed because we cant add 200hp and 300ft lbs without needing an upgrade....what fuel system wouldnt?

The way i increased output on this tune is exactly how ford would...it can be done that way with sct but i dont know how other tuners are utilizing the software...there are ways to force a result that is less than ideal

Thats why its also retarded when people say that you can get a same result by either doing more spark and less boost or more boost and less spark.....you tune max spark at all boost for a properly tuned car

I don't see how you run that much boost and don't see FP drop to unsafe levels.  I've had to dial back way before that level.  It's very impressive.

Did you see the log I attached? There are a couple things I think I found out that allows the high pressure pump to operate more wide open...There may have been a couple things limiting it's output but they were minor

One thing thing though that I do is try to make boost smooth and avoid spikes...When you get large boost spikes it quickly will deplete the fuel pressure that is in the rail due to increased fuel demand and the injector pulsewidth increases in an attempt to dump large amounts of fuel...Once the rail is depleted it becomes hard for it to recover when you are at high boost for a sustained amount of time
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: metroplex on June 09, 2016, 03:13:36 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 07, 2016, 01:51:37 AM
At 20% drive line loss which is conservative you're looking at minimal...

480CHP/633 CTQ

On pump gas!


I've found that most of the modern FWD/RWD/AWD systems have about 14%-15% drivetrain loss (manual or automatics), not the 20%-25% that everyone uses as a rule of thumb.

That said, that's still a lot of power. The Hennessey 445 or 435 only had about 340 whp / 340 wtq from one of the articles I read.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: bpd1151 on June 09, 2016, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: metroplex on June 09, 2016, 03:13:36 PMI've found that most of the modern FWD/RWD/AWD systems have about 14%-15% drivetrain loss (manual or automatics).

Not the 20%-25% that everyone uses as a rule of thumb.

The average stock dyno numbers for 2010-2012 models ranged between 277-283 wheel hp.

I believe the same has held true for the 2013+'s as Ford has advertised 365 crank hp, consistently across all models years.

That equates to an average drive train loss of 22-23%.

Doesn't really matter what you've found as it relates to other platforms.

The Ecoboost platform has shown time & time again, to not embrace the "norms".

The drivetrain loss is as I stated, & why it is used as a rule of thumb for the EB SHO.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: metroplex on June 09, 2016, 05:49:22 PM
Nice.

So what kind of air mass flow numbers (#/min) are you seeing at this power level?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 09, 2016, 06:01:43 PM
Quote from: metroplex on June 09, 2016, 05:49:22 PM
Nice.

So what kind of air mass flow numbers (#/min) are you seeing at this power level?

I have not been aboe to log DMR items with live link yet...im guessing it has to be in the 40-50 range in pounds per minute
Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: ZSHO on June 09, 2016, 10:34:38 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on June 07, 2016, 01:46:27 AM
Boom!

Great job!
X 2. Damn Nice.  Z  :thumb:
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 10, 2016, 12:25:45 AM
Scott I did a 0-100 mph pull and log for you...Tell me what you think and how it compares to your pulls. It's under the dyno and log of the big pull...Can't remember the post

I would say note the fuel pressure and even boost throughout the gears....You already saw even boost for the 3rd gear pull from 2500rpm to redline....Not much boost taper at redline..
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: metroplex on June 10, 2016, 04:24:47 AM
AJ: Are those boost spikes (TIP readings) really in the 20-27 psi range during your shifts?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: EcoPowerParts on June 10, 2016, 08:54:04 AM
Looking forward to seeing 1/4 mile times, great job on the self tuning.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 10, 2016, 09:50:49 AM
Quote from: metroplex on June 10, 2016, 04:24:47 AM
AJ: Are those boost spikes (TIP readings) really in the 20-27 psi range during your shifts?

Thank you mike

And metro, yes tip sensor reading will typically be high when the throttle is not fully open...if you want to avoid prolonged boost spikes upon upshifts you are well served to have the throttle regulate boost pressure measured by the map sensor....you have the x boost in the map then when the throttle closes the tip pressure will rise because the airflow is hitting a wall
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Scott4957 on June 10, 2016, 10:15:12 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 10, 2016, 12:25:45 AM
Scott I did a 0-100 mph pull and log for you...Tell me what you think and how it compares to your pulls. It's under the dyno and log of the big pull...Can't remember the post

I would say note the fuel pressure and even boost throughout the gears....You already saw even boost for the 3rd gear pull from 2500rpm to redline....Not much boost taper at redline..

Absolute monster by any measure let alone being a 93 only tune!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: SHOnUup on June 10, 2016, 07:03:45 PM
AJ, have a few people saying congrats on the numbers...and asking questions.

If you don't mind, to calm their minds of the unknown.

What are you using to tune with, and do you have any mods at all?

Thx

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 10, 2016, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 10, 2016, 07:03:45 PM
AJ, have a few people saying congrats on the numbers...and asking questions.

If you don't mind, to calm their minds of the unknown.

What are you using to tune with, and do you have any mods at all?

Thx

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I use SCT software flashed with an x4

Air raid cai and stainless works catless down pipes, stock plugs, stock tstat and all amsoil fluids...not that they matter...and obviously a 3 bar map sensor
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: SHOnUup on June 10, 2016, 07:47:38 PM
Thank you...and those fluids count in my book!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on June 10, 2016, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 10, 2016, 07:47:38 PM
Thank you...and those fluids count in my book!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Hell yeah
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: shohard on July 07, 2016, 02:37:30 AM
AJ I have to say for the record that these numbers are the best on I have seen without all the upgrades. I look forward to working with you getting mine tuned. I cant wait to see what you can do when I upgrade my turbos. I will be keeping in touch and listing my tune after it is tuned.

Thanks,

SHOHARd
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yes, limited basis for now. Selective clientele for now based on my time restraints and schedule.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yes, limited basis for now. Selective clientele for now based on my time restraints and schedule.
Would you be willing to let me compare your tune to mine? If yours is putting down 400 awhp it should be strong, id switch lol

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 01:32:42 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yes, limited basis for now. Selective clientele for now based on my time restraints and schedule.
Would you be willing to let me compare your tune to mine? If yours is putting down 400 awhp it should be strong, id switch lol

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I could never send out a tune close to what I run for a 1st tune...I need to work to my progressions based on how each particular car responds...Each tune is purely a custom 1 off tune for the car at hand....Mass issued tunes are for big companies which I am not...Nothing wrong with those tunes either as they have proven to be great also.......It's just not what I do...If you are not looking to log and work through the tuning process than honestly I don't want to offer tuning to that type of customer

No tunes I would send would be considered a finished product until I am finished revising.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 01:32:42 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yes, limited basis for now. Selective clientele for now based on my time restraints and schedule.
Would you be willing to let me compare your tune to mine? If yours is putting down 400 awhp it should be strong, id switch lol

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I could never send out a tune close to what I run for a 1st tune...I need to work to my progressions based on how each particular car responds...Each tune is purely a custom 1 off tune for the car at hand....Mass issued tunes are for big companies which I am not...Nothing wrong with those tunes either as they have proven to be great also.......It's just not what I do...If you are not looking to log and work through the tuning process than honestly I don't want to offer tuning to that type of customer

No tunes I would send would be considered a finished product until I am finished revising.
I dont mind sending you logs. I am just curious about your tune, I feel like I hit a wall with the tune I have and wouldnt mind trying something new. Good thing is I have a track close by and could compare times, normal driving feel, etc. Let me know :) plz dont tell me you would need 100 logs tho lol

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: wasinger3000 on July 08, 2016, 10:44:00 AM
Great work on the tune! Very impressive numbers.

If you need a test car on meth let me know since mine sits in the garage over 20 days a month.


Sent using smoke signals.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: f8tlSHO on July 16, 2016, 11:47:23 AM
Holy friking balls!!! Just saw this!! Awesome job... Bet you got a lot of time wrapped up in that!!.. Can't wait to see track numbers!!


Sent from my iPhone
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Quinid on July 18, 2016, 11:33:54 AM
Hey congratz AJ! I've been paying to attention to all your work, claims, and arguments on these forums the past few years. It looks like your hard work/stubbornness/persistence has paid off and has shut your opposition up for the most part. We realize it would not be in your best interest to share EXACTLY what you have figured out. However I do hope you will not be the only one to figure it out for our sake. It sure would be awesome to see the SHO or ecoboost in that matter surprise the competition all over again! Not to mention.... myself with a extended warranty, it would be nice to have your numbers on the least mods possible. Then when I need to go to the dealership, I wouldn't need to remove mods like meth or down pipes to avoid warranty issues. Just a quick change in tune, map sensor and head to the dealership. I'm still just a tune and a 3bar, but have been torn to buy meth setup for months. I would gladly want to be on your clientele, however I don't think my car setup would add any value or interest to you as it's just more of the same. Best of luck to you and here is hoping someday I can just buy a new and improved tune from you or who ever selling this "fountain of youth".
Title: Re: No Meth required
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on August 06, 2016, 02:17:33 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on June 07, 2016, 02:00:38 AM
I would love to see some people run 15-16 psi down low and 17 psi midrange and top end on E30.....I don't have much E85 around me and don't care to mess with it but I'm going to guess it should do well
You called that one pretty well...

E20 logs attached after 15 revisions.

E30 here we come!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: SHOurpp on January 31, 2017, 10:56:47 PM
GREAT THREAD AJP - informitive
should be standard reading for anyone considering a tune or wanting to understand parameters and restriction
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Dxlnt1 on February 01, 2017, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yes, limited basis for now. Selective clientele for now based on my time restraints and schedule.

I want in as well when you ready. But I don't have the SCT tuner. Nor do I have access to 93 octane. I run the LMS 4+X tune, ACES IV additive, 3 bar, stock intake.

Would your tune work on this setup?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on February 01, 2017, 12:52:29 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on February 01, 2017, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yes, limited basis for now. Selective clientele for now based on my time restraints and schedule.

I want in as well when you ready. But I don't have the SCT tuner. Nor do I have access to 93 octane. I run the LMS 4+X tune, ACES IV additive, 3 bar, stock intake.

Would your tune work on this setup?

Yes, but it would not be exactly the same tune....every single tune I've done is unique to the vehicle....there are only a small number of changes that would be similar from vehicle to vehicle...boost, spark, fueling is custom in respect to how the vehicle and local fuel responds and only prefer to tune for people interested in datalogging.....for me, i want/need to see how the vehicle is running with the tune.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: ChrisJ on February 01, 2017, 12:53:15 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yes, limited basis for now. Selective clientele for now based on my time restraints and schedule.
Would you be willing to let me compare your tune to mine? If yours is putting down 400 awhp it should be strong, id switch lol

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

PM sent AJP.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on February 01, 2017, 01:14:17 PM
And full disclosure......I obviously dont have brand/name recognition at this point so i dont have the luxury of being mediocre so i try to put the attention to detail in the calibration that i sought. And will also attempt to accommodate specific requests to allow people to have a car that operates the way they want and not how someone else thinks it should be. There are alot of tunes out there and its extremely competitive so its hard to break into the industry...so my goal is to make it worthwile for the people willing to take a chance....but after the data and feedback that ive given and recieved i feel I've taken the "chance" part out of it

Couple that with some parameters that i utilize that i feel make the car respond well and safely i feel the 3.5 liter ecoboost tunes i provide are woth a look and provide an alternative

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: djxfactor on February 01, 2017, 01:15:41 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on February 01, 2017, 12:52:29 PM
Quote from: Dxlnt1 on February 01, 2017, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on July 07, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: ElvenSho on July 07, 2016, 12:21:56 PM
You starting to sell tunes AJ?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Yes, limited basis for now. Selective clientele for now based on my time restraints and schedule.

I want in as well when you ready. But I don't have the SCT tuner. Nor do I have access to 93 octane. I run the LMS 4+X tune, ACES IV additive, 3 bar, stock intake.

Would your tune work on this setup?

Yes, but it would not be exactly the same tune....every single tune I've done is unique to the vehicle....there are only a small number of changes that would be similar from vehicle to vehicle...boost, spark, fueling is custom in respect to how the vehicle and local fuel responds and only prefer to tune for people interested in datalogging.....for me, i want/need to see how the vehicle is running with the tune.

I've been following your posts from the very first day I joined these forums.  You really do stand out as someone who has monster talent in tuning this platform, and furthermore, you're committed to whomever you may be tuning in the mere fact that you REQUIRE logging.  Massive kudos to that, and this thread attributes to the work you put in, and, are willing to put in for others.

I have a bad taste in my mouth from my current custom tune because I felt like I was a burden for requesting him even just to LOOK at my datalogs.  He never once really engaged me, informed me, or made me feel like I was getting much more than a "Custom canned tune" which really sucks considering that I've heard other customers have really engaged with him.  I refuse to call out names, because I don't think it accomplishes anything but bad-mouthing.  AJP I'd like to work with you in the very near future if your schedule permits it, and will be reaching out via PM soon.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: derfdog15 on February 01, 2017, 02:08:44 PM
STOP STEALING HIS TIME AWAY FROM ME GUYS....

No but seriously, AJP rocks, and even with his increased workload he gets tunes out quickly, and always gives extremely detailed feedback. I may be an "AJP Nut Hugger" at this point, but who cars, my car made 450 torque, 370 horse TO THE WHEELS, on a humid day, with more potential based on having it turned down a bit for the cold weather.

Also, I highly recommend talking to AJP about your specific goals as he has been an immense help in the direction I take with mods/order I do mods.

Thanks again, AJP, you rock dude.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 02:59:03 PM
Tomorrow is *my* big day,  heading to ZOOM MOTORSPORTS in Roseburg Oregon for 3 pulls on a Linked MUSTANG Dyno.    I am both excited and nervous :P with it being a mustang dyno.

They advised they will give me two sets of numbers,  the original ''Mustang makes you cry numbers'' and the simulated DynoJect numbers. 

I will post up what I Get :)
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 03:13:51 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 02:59:03 PM
Tomorrow is *my* big day,  heading to ZOOM MOTORSPORTS in Roseburg Oregon for 3 pulls on a Linked MUSTANG Dyno.    I am both excited and nervous :P with it being a mustang dyno.

They advised they will give me two sets of numbers,  the original ''Mustang makes you cry numbers'' and the simulated DynoJect numbers. 

I will post up what I Get :)
Keep us updated!  Brad and I are dialing in mine as our #%&*@^! weather permits.  My DP land today, once installed we can finish dialing in and then I plan to run on a dyno just to see where we are.  I am eager to find out as currently the car cannot even put the power it has down to ground in 1st and part of 2nd gear, just smokes them off and has TC blinking the entire time if I try to go WOT from a stop. >:D
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 03:22:35 PM
You bet!

Are you running E-blends for your power?  I'm using 92-pump currently to keep the parts mostly OEM and keep the aftermarket warranty .. 
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 03:29:01 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 03:22:35 PM
You bet!

Are you running E-blends for your power?  I'm using 92-pump currently to keep the parts mostly OEM and keep the aftermarket warranty ..
No Eblend, E85 is just not available anywhere close to mix with.  And same 92octain max up here in Tacoma.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 03:33:02 PM
Quote from: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 03:29:01 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 03:22:35 PM
You bet!

Are you running E-blends for your power?  I'm using 92-pump currently to keep the parts mostly OEM and keep the aftermarket warranty ..
No Eblend, E85 is just not available anywhere close to mix with.  And same 92octain max up here in Tacoma.

Cool, we can compare notes then!  I wont do the DP or CAT deletes as i have a warranty to maintain for a few years,  but it would be super interesting to see the difference the DP's make.

Yeah you and me share the same $%^&ing rain brotha' .. hard to do datalogging in downpours and sudden gusts of crosswinds :P
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 04:01:15 PM
Quote from: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 03:13:51 PM

I am eager to find out as currently the car cannot even put the power it has down to ground in 1st and part of 2nd gear, just smokes them off and has TC blinking the entire time if I try to go WOT from a stop.

Hey, quick question .. How aggressive is your TQ management and how low are you trying to get to max-TQ?   I am curious as I do not see the same tire spin behavior .. but I am not in a PP and wonder if that's the difference.

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 04:47:02 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 04:01:15 PM
Quote from: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 03:13:51 PM

I am eager to find out as currently the car cannot even put the power it has down to ground in 1st and part of 2nd gear, just smokes them off and has TC blinking the entire time if I try to go WOT from a stop.

Hey, quick question .. How aggressive is your TQ management and how low are you trying to get to max-TQ?   I am curious as I do not see the same tire spin behavior .. but I am not in a PP and wonder if that's the difference.
I am going with PPE Catted DP, just to stay legal up here in CA North :-/  In fact they just arrived 10min ago!

The colder temps in morning have also been a struggle, engine loves it, but tires not so much!  Eager to get into some of our nice PNW spring days to do some real work on the tune.

I have to admit I am not certain on the TQ numbers/strategy.  I am not tuning it myself, I am AJP tuned (because of this thread), and I know he tends to bring power on right off idle and keep it high throughout the rpm range, sort of his trademark I think.  Makes for great pull right off the line if the tires can handle it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170411/ec2e6f6d090f6d445331ec3d067d862e.jpg)
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 09:24:13 PM
Those Are hot! :). Are they cali-legal?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 09:31:34 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 10, 2017, 09:24:13 PM
Those Are hot! :). Are they cali-legal?
Probably not, they are catted though which is what I need up here in WA (what I meant by CA-north, as WA adopted some laws similar to CA recently)
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 10, 2017, 09:38:40 PM
So far the tunes are putting out 390~ HP and ~440ftlbs torque with quite a good looking curve... gobs of power..

I know he does leaves a small amount of torque management in place same as LMS. But it only kicks in when it shifts to save the transmission from being beat to sh*t....

I have traction issues when it rains or when it's cold but otherwise, pulls 4.1 second 0-60s all day on the street.
At the track should be better if it's been treated.

Can't go wrong with his tunes... I currently run an E20 tune from him that is pure evil....

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 10:21:22 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on April 10, 2017, 09:38:40 PM
So far the tunes are putting out 390~ HP and ~440ftlbs torque with quite a good looking curve... gobs of power..

I know he does leaves a small amount of torque management in place same as LMS. But it only kicks in when it shifts to save the transmission from being beat to sh*t....

I have traction issues when it rains or when it's cold but otherwise, pulls 4.1 second 0-60s all day on the street.
At the track should be better if it's been treated.

Can't go wrong with his tunes... I currently run an E20 tune from him that is pure evil....
I am running 92octain and can't keep tires under the car in 1st gear, and TC flashes thru much of 2nd.  I know she is way up on power, but I think much is tires too.  They are only 3yrs old, maybe 20k miles on them and lots of tread, but they just do not grip well.  I need to do a few pulls with all the turned off just to see what fun can be had...
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 10, 2017, 10:31:30 PM
Quote from: lamrith on April 10, 2017, 10:21:22 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on April 10, 2017, 09:38:40 PM
So far the tunes are putting out 390~ HP and ~440ftlbs torque with quite a good looking curve... gobs of power..

I know he does leaves a small amount of torque management in place same as LMS. But it only kicks in when it shifts to save the transmission from being beat to sh*t....

I have traction issues when it rains or when it's cold but otherwise, pulls 4.1 second 0-60s all day on the street.
At the track should be better if it's been treated.

Can't go wrong with his tunes... I currently run an E20 tune from him that is pure evil....
I am running 92octain and can't keep tires under the car in 1st gear, and TC flashes thru much of 2nd.  I know she is way up on power, but I think much is tires too.  They are only 3yrs old, maybe 20k miles on them and lots of tread, but they just do not grip well.  I need to do a few pulls with all the turned off just to see what fun can be had...

Tires make a lot difference.. sport comp 2 summer performance tires... grips like a baby to a nipple....
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 11, 2017, 04:42:10 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on April 10, 2017, 09:38:40 PM
So far the tunes are putting out 390~ HP and ~440ftlbs torque with quite a good looking curve... gobs of power..

I know he does leaves a small amount of torque management in place same as LMS. But it only kicks in when it shifts to save the transmission from being beat to sh*t....

I have traction issues when it rains or when it's cold but otherwise, pulls 4.1 second 0-60s all day on the street.
At the track should be better if it's been treated.

Can't go wrong with his tunes... I currently run an E20 tune from him that is pure evil....


Well I am off. Wish me luck.  I'm on a 92-pump tune with 19+ spark ... I hope to hit 380+WTQ and 330+WHP on the evil Mustang-Dyno dyno ... well have to see in a few hours /nervous/.


Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: SHOdded on April 11, 2017, 04:47:09 PM
 :drive: :drive: :drive: :drive:
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 11, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
Kill it!!!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 11, 2017, 07:24:17 PM
Hit a speed limiter in 5th @160mph.. trying 4th gear..
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on April 11, 2017, 07:38:16 PM
Pretty sure you want 4th anyway as 5th is less than 1:1
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 11, 2017, 07:39:36 PM
Really?  Swore it was a little over 1
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 08:22:14 PM
I wouldnt worry about gear ratio but rather target a pull of 10-15 seconds....how long was the pull in 5th to hit 160?..your poor car....very little airflow
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 11, 2017, 08:35:04 PM
It was more than 13 seconds.. it *just occurred* to me the car shut down the power because of temps..

But 4th was GREAT.

Post pics soon:.  But. --298whp,.  And 383wtq on the mustang dyno. The tech was VASTLY impressed with the wtq..
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 11, 2017, 08:35:04 PM
It was more than 13 seconds.. it *just occurred* to me the car shut down the power because of temps..

But 4th was GREAT.

Post pics soon:.  But. --298whp,.  And 383wtq on the mustang dyno. The tech was VASTLY impressed with the wtq..

I doubt it had anything to do with temps....160mph and the party is over...didnt think there was a need for more
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on April 11, 2017, 08:57:43 PM
I stand corrected, fifth is 1:1.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 09:00:44 PM
What did dyno man tell you about a dynojet conversion?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 11, 2017, 09:05:01 PM
14% uplift ?  Does that make sense ?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 11, 2017, 09:06:52 PM
At 14% that would convert to ~340hp/436tq
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 11, 2017, 09:07:50 PM
Which is about what others are putting down with AJPTurbo... slightly lower on the HP.. could have been heatsoak after the 160mph run...
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
I would've guessed 360/460 since your spark was around 20 degrees in your logs...wonder what it was when you did your pulls

Hopefully you can run it at the track

I know they call mustang dynos heart breakers but why do they read so low?..stock numbers must be embarrassing

So if a stock sho put down 250 that would be like a 33% loss through the drivetrain...that is far from what people use as acceptable loss of 20% for automatic cars
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 11, 2017, 09:28:23 PM
Dynos are fun things, even running on the same type  dyno in two different places we can vary.   

340ish vs 360ish is less than 5% margin so it may be more or right on /shrug/

We ran 4th gear, had to compensate the roller resistance.. etc. 

1/4 mile NEXT WEEK will be very telling!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 11, 2017, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
I would've guessed 360/460 since your spark was around 20 degrees in your logs...wonder what it was when you did your pulls

Hopefully you can run it at the track

I know they call mustang dynos heart breakers but why do they read so low?..stock numbers must be embarrassing

So if a stock sho put down 250 that would be like a 33% loss through the drivetrain...that is far from what people use as acceptable loss of 20% for automatic cars

Heat soak you think?

Not sure which run they pulled the numbers from... these cars take forever to cool down...
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 11, 2017, 10:02:02 PM
It was pull 5 after failing in 5th twice and a recalibration run.

*But* the numbers under 5k were very similar.   Were within 5% so humidity, elevation, fuel quality, temp and circus mimes in Texas could have a cumulative effect.

For 92 octane.. as well and not 93.  So there is that too.

I mean. Really with fuZy napkin math were at 500ftlbs at the crank.  That is amazing for a family hauler
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 11, 2017, 10:33:47 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on April 11, 2017, 09:07:50 PM
Which is about what others are putting down with AJPTurbo... slightly lower on the HP.. could have been heatsoak after the 160mph run...
I am thinking it might be tied to the fact that he and I have CRAP options for fuel out here, highest anyplace around is 92octane, they have a habit of messing with it in the winter too...?

I am happy to see him put those numbers down with that in mind.  Crossing fingers, I woudl like to hit the 450 mark.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: SHOdded on April 12, 2017, 07:52:12 AM
We are all rootin' 4 ya.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 09:11:18 AM
And here is the PDF...   Redacted the Plate and Name.

edit:  for those jumping in the thread without reading back,  this is a MustangDyno..

(http://i66.tinypic.com/28jfwhs.jpg)



Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 09:29:12 AM
Nice...i like starting the pull lower so you can see when the power comes on...its impressive to see over 90% of your torque at 2500 rpm..it just spotlights where this motors shines.

And i think their afr sensor was calibrated for stoic of 14.64 for pure gas because your afr line is leaner than your data logs...stoic for e10 pump is about 14.08 so your afr is low 11's

Did they put it in the tail pipe? That could make it wrong to because of the cats
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 09:57:51 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 09:29:12 AM
Nice...i like starting the pull lower so you can see when the power comes on...its impressive to see over 90% of your torque at 2500 rpm..it just spotlights where this motors shines.

And i think their afr sensor was calibrated for stoic of 14.64 for pure gas because your afr line is leaner than your data logs...stoic for e10 pump is about 14.08 so your afr is low 11's

Did they put it in the tail pipe? That could make it wrong to because of the cats

YUP!  in the pipe ..
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 12, 2017, 11:59:53 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 09:29:12 AM
Nice...i like starting the pull lower so you can see when the power comes on...its impressive to see over 90% of your torque at 2500 rpm..it just spotlights where this motors shines.

And i think their afr sensor was calibrated for stoic of 14.64 for pure gas because your afr line is leaner than your data logs...stoic for e10 pump is about 14.08 so your afr is low 11's

Did they put it in the tail pipe? That could make it wrong to because of the cats
Wow yeah they did start it up in the rpm range.  I will make a note of that for when we get my tune dialed in and I do a Dyno run.  Pull from low as possible RPM and in 4th..

Topher - Did you run logging during the pulls?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 12:05:57 PM
Quote from: lamrith on April 12, 2017, 11:59:53 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 09:29:12 AM
Nice...i like starting the pull lower so you can see when the power comes on...its impressive to see over 90% of your torque at 2500 rpm..it just spotlights where this motors shines.

And i think their afr sensor was calibrated for stoic of 14.64 for pure gas because your afr line is leaner than your data logs...stoic for e10 pump is about 14.08 so your afr is low 11's

Did they put it in the tail pipe? That could make it wrong to because of the cats
Wow yeah they did start it up in the rpm range.  I will make a note of that for when we get my tune dialed in and I do a Dyno run.  Pull from low as possible RPM and in 4th..

Topher - Did you run logging during the pulls?

Negative,  they had their HPTuner module hooked up.  I have the HP logs.. but i obviously cannot open them .

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 12, 2017, 12:21:18 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 12:05:57 PM
Quote from: lamrith on April 12, 2017, 11:59:53 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 09:29:12 AM
Nice...i like starting the pull lower so you can see when the power comes on...its impressive to see over 90% of your torque at 2500 rpm..it just spotlights where this motors shines.

And i think their afr sensor was calibrated for stoic of 14.64 for pure gas because your afr line is leaner than your data logs...stoic for e10 pump is about 14.08 so your afr is low 11's

Did they put it in the tail pipe? That could make it wrong to because of the cats
Wow yeah they did start it up in the rpm range.  I will make a note of that for when we get my tune dialed in and I do a Dyno run.  Pull from low as possible RPM and in 4th..

Topher - Did you run logging during the pulls?

Negative,  they had their HPTuner module hooked up.  I have the HP logs.. but i obviously cannot open them .
If you post those I am betting one of us can open them and post graphs maybe?  Tunes are usually locked up, but I think graphs can be shared..?  I have HPTune for my GM rigs and be willing to try opening them to share if you want.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
Why would they have the HP device hooked up if you dont own a device and why would they stick an 02 sensor in the pipes if you have cats? Especially if they were logging with hp?

Any particular reason they hooked up the HP device to your car?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 12, 2017, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
Why would they have the HP device hooked up if you dont own a device and why would they stick an 02 sensor in the pipes if you have cats? Especially if they were logging with hp?

Any particular reason they hooked up the HP device to your car?

To steal your tunes dude!!!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on April 12, 2017, 12:29:53 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on April 12, 2017, 12:24:06 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
Why would they have the HP device hooked up if you dont own a device and why would they stick an 02 sensor in the pipes if you have cats? Especially if they were logging with hp?

Any particular reason they hooked up the HP device to your car?

To steal your tunes dude!!!
That's messed up...
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 12:35:54 PM
Well the shop couldve at least gave you a free dyno session
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 12:37:14 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 12, 2017, 12:21:46 PM
Why would they have the HP device hooked up if you dont own a device and why would they stick an 02 sensor in the pipes if you have cats? Especially if they were logging with hp?

Any particular reason they hooked up the HP device to your car?

No idea.  I *assume* to sync the rollers and the tail type enema ?   But i suspect mostly to get the HP graphs for highlights and possible sales points?

I attached the HP logs in a zip.. the forums rejected the file types.


Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 12:53:52 PM
VMSCANNER has a free trial .. I installed it and am looking at the logs now.  *IF* the logs are accurate it capped at 14.5-15 on the
spark.

EDIT :: I wish it logged the Ethanol content number and the octane correction numbers.  i am now suspect of that tank of gas given the spark cap in that log.   But then I do not know if HP tuners runs a different way of reading it ..   

I am on a new tank of gas now.. so i cannot replicate with a 3rd gear pull.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/wvuyir.jpg)
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 04:56:11 PM
well doing internet napkin math makes things line up..  running with the old idea that 1 degree of timing means 1% power for certain displacements and boost makes everything click.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/14kfjx0.jpg)

taking in to account 18.5% avg spark,  were less than 1% away from the expected target numbers.   Since the test was oddish with the HP tuner hook up, and less than ideal airflow VS datalogging or drag racing I'm calling it good..

I think AJP Turbo did a #$%^ing amazing job,  and this car for 13000$+600$ in tuning parts is RIDICULOUS.. it is a comfy Daily Driver  that is a hell of a machine. 

Next week is drag times at PIR,  i will update than but I am confident to be high-12's ...

AJP  thank you your work is amazing!!!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: lamrith on April 12, 2017, 05:18:12 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 04:56:11 PM
I think AJP Turbo did a #$%^ing amazing job,  and this car for 13000$+600$ in tuning parts is RIDICULOUS.. it is a comfy Daily Driver  that is a hell of a machine. 

Next week is drag times at PIR,  i will update than but I am confident to be high-12's ...

AJP  thank you your work is amazing!!!
Wow, $13k, pre '13 I take it?  Affordability of mods is great on these cars, I think we lucked out with Ford leaving so much power on the table.

Nice that PIR is opening so early, not seeing any T&T dates for SIR (Sorry Pacific Raceways) until May 3rd.  I need to get the DP installed this weekend, then a bit more tuning/logging cycles to do though before I am ready for a Dyno or T&T day.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 05:23:13 PM
Yup, 2010 non-pp  .. but with 40k miles... :)

It was a decent deal, I jumped on it knowing what could be unlocked.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: lamrith on April 12, 2017, 05:18:12 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 12, 2017, 04:56:11 PM
I think AJP Turbo did a #$%^ing amazing job,  and this car for 13000$+600$ in tuning parts is RIDICULOUS.. it is a comfy Daily Driver  that is a hell of a machine. 

Next week is drag times at PIR,  i will update than but I am confident to be high-12's ...

AJP  thank you your work is amazing!!!
Wow, $13k, pre '13 I take it?  Affordability of mods is great on these cars, I think we lucked out with Ford leaving so much power on the table.

Nice that PIR is opening so early, not seeing any T&T dates for SIR (Sorry Pacific Raceways) until May 3rd.  I need to get the DP installed this weekend, then a bit more tuning/logging cycles to do though before I am ready for a Dyno or T&T day.

Man if it was not for the full warranty I'd be knee deep in pipes cat-deletes and converted to HPFP, new injectors and run full e85 24x7...
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: f8tlSHO on April 13, 2017, 10:15:58 PM
I just had my ajp e20 tuned sho on the mustang dyno also. Made 332hp 386tq


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Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 14, 2017, 01:24:24 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on April 13, 2017, 10:15:58 PM
I just had my ajp e20 tuned sho on the mustang dyno also. Made 332hp 386tq


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heading to bed, but had to ask. Why does it seem that e20 e30 builds don't seem to push TQ as much as HP ?
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: f8tlSHO on April 14, 2017, 06:13:56 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 14, 2017, 01:24:24 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on April 13, 2017, 10:15:58 PM
I just had my ajp e20 tuned sho on the mustang dyno also. Made 332hp 386tq


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heading to bed, but had to ask. Why does it seem that e20 e30 builds don't seem to push TQ as much as HP ?
Not sure. But I imagine if I had downpipes the numbers would be a little different. Car is completely stock other than tune and drop in filter. I am on e30 now, would like to go back to the same dyno to see power differences from the e20. My car actually was more efficient on 14psi than 15psi. Once again though it has stock crinkled up downpipes on it. Airflow is more restricted I would think. You can look at my thread in the dyno results , but a basically stock tune other than e20 fueling got 290hp and 290tq on stock boost and timing.


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Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: f8tlSHO on April 14, 2017, 06:20:04 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
I would've guessed 360/460 since your spark was around 20 degrees in your logs...wonder what it was when you did your pulls

Hopefully you can run it at the track

I know they call mustang dynos heart breakers but why do they read so low?..stock numbers must be embarrassing

So if a stock sho put down 250 that would be like a 33% loss through the drivetrain...that is far from what people use as acceptable loss of 20% for automatic cars
The mustang dynos use the vehicles full weight to calculate load. Dyno jets are at a fixed number of 1400lbs I believe. This is what my dyno guy said. So the mustang dyno is prob more accurate. So 4400lbs compared to 1400lbs..takes a lot less power to move 1400lbs, prob skews the numbers a bit


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Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 14, 2017, 09:28:53 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on April 14, 2017, 06:20:04 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
I would've guessed 360/460 since your spark was around 20 degrees in your logs...wonder what it was when you did your pulls

Hopefully you can run it at the track

I know they call mustang dynos heart breakers but why do they read so low?..stock numbers must be embarrassing

So if a stock sho put down 250 that would be like a 33% loss through the drivetrain...that is far from what people use as acceptable loss of 20% for automatic cars
The mustang dynos use the vehicles full weight to calculate load. Dyno jets are at a fixed number of 1400lbs I believe. This is what my dyno guy said. So the mustang dyno is prob more accurate. So 4400lbs compared to 1400lbs..takes a lot less power to move 1400lbs, prob skews the numbers a bit


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plot thickens .. i know for a fact i saw my weight set to 4650 pounds..  Good feedback! TY!
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 14, 2017, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 14, 2017, 09:28:53 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on April 14, 2017, 06:20:04 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
I would've guessed 360/460 since your spark was around 20 degrees in your logs...wonder what it was when you did your pulls

Hopefully you can run it at the track

I know they call mustang dynos heart breakers but why do they read so low?..stock numbers must be embarrassing

So if a stock sho put down 250 that would be like a 33% loss through the drivetrain...that is far from what people use as acceptable loss of 20% for automatic cars
The mustang dynos use the vehicles full weight to calculate load. Dyno jets are at a fixed number of 1400lbs I believe. This is what my dyno guy said. So the mustang dyno is prob more accurate. So 4400lbs compared to 1400lbs..takes a lot less power to move 1400lbs, prob skews the numbers a bit


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plot thickens .. i know for a fact i saw my weight set to 4650 pounds..  Good feedback! TY!

Maybe gross weight vs curb weight....
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: f8tlSHO on April 14, 2017, 09:40:58 AM
They used the flex specs with my dyno run and changed weight from 5k to 4400lbs. Not sure why they have flex specs and not sho specs


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Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: f8tlSHO on April 14, 2017, 09:49:22 AM

Here is some info I found on the interwebz

Mustang dyno is a much better tuning tool. they set the resistance to your cars weight. that allows the engine to perform under the same load that it would see on the road. A dyno jet provides a set amount of resistance that has no relationship to what the actual engine load on the street would be. I believe (and could be wrong) that the resistance on the Dyno Jet is equal to a car weighing 2100#
Use a Dyno Jet for Dyno Queens The mustang is the real tuners tool.

Mustang measures torque and computes horsepower as HP = torque * RPM / 5252 while the Dynojet measures the acceleration (difference in RPM) of the drum and computes horsepower from that with a much more complex formula.

The Dynojet will have an increasing error as the horsepower goes up. For instance, you dyno stock and get 310 HP, then do heads, cam, boltons, etc, and dyno 450 HP. That number should be higher because the greater amout of power accelerates the drum more rapidly, throwing off their power calcualtion. Even as a tuning tool, the numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. The Mustang does not suffer from this phenomenon.

In theory, the Mustang should be closer to "true" horsepower.


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Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 14, 2017, 09:53:03 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on April 14, 2017, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on April 14, 2017, 09:28:53 AM
Quote from: f8tlSHO on April 14, 2017, 06:20:04 AM
Quote from: AJP turbo on April 11, 2017, 09:20:00 PM
I would've guessed 360/460 since your spark was around 20 degrees in your logs...wonder what it was when you did your pulls

Hopefully you can run it at the track

I know they call mustang dynos heart breakers but why do they read so low?..stock numbers must be embarrassing

So if a stock sho put down 250 that would be like a 33% loss through the drivetrain...that is far from what people use as acceptable loss of 20% for automatic cars
The mustang dynos use the vehicles full weight to calculate load. Dyno jets are at a fixed number of 1400lbs I believe. This is what my dyno guy said. So the mustang dyno is prob more accurate. So 4400lbs compared to 1400lbs..takes a lot less power to move 1400lbs, prob skews the numbers a bit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

plot thickens .. i know for a fact i saw my weight set to 4650 pounds..  Good feedback! TY!

Maybe gross weight vs curb weight....

//shrug//  dunno,  since I weighed the car on a set of scales with me in it @ 4650 pounds.. I opted to say nothing.    But as I now recall the Dyno he had DID look like a set of scales ..

hmm.. Oh well I still feel 100% confident in stating I absolutely make 500+ftlbs at the crank with 14.5 spark. I am WAY good with the results.   Now if my current experiment works i think i can knock a few tenths off the 1/4 mile and really surprise the crap out of some folks at PIR.
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: StealBlueSho on April 14, 2017, 10:01:41 AM
Tuning to load is ideal.... it will more accurately show where the stress points are in your tune... more load more stress right?? It maybe and probably is a better way to dial in a tune...

However, DynoJet is still the defacto standard for showing HP and TQ... so it's an issue of apples to apples comparison...

If the industry has standardized on DynoJet numbers, then using a dynojet will provide a more direct comparison...

Hope that helps...

Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: TopherSho on April 14, 2017, 10:07:14 AM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on April 14, 2017, 10:01:41 AM
Tuning to load is ideal.... it will more accurately show where the stress points are in your tune... more load more stress right?? It maybe and probably is a better way to dial in a tune...

However, DynoJet is still the defacto standard for showing HP and TQ... so it's an issue of apples to apples comparison...

If the industry has standardized on DynoJet numbers, then using a dynojet will provide a more direct comparison...

Hope that helps...

In the end it is all up to the humans making the datapoints :P so there is fudge factor all around.  I am as you said using it as a guide :) and now im onto tuning the shifting points to see if lowering the shift-window to a lower more torque rich curve helps wigth the 60' and 1.4 mile :)

btw .. THANK YOU APJ! 
Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: f8tlSHO on April 16, 2017, 11:57:51 AM
Dyno numbers are only good if everyone is using the exact same dyno... I don't care if the mustang dyno says my car makes 100hp... tell that to the guy I just beat in the mustang or camaro or whatever...I'm using it to measure changes in my car not really worrying about the peak numbers. Like I said I wanna get it redone on e30 to see what difference it made.


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Title: Re: No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ
Post by: Joeyfuzz911 on July 25, 2017, 10:14:30 PM
Yea I want this tune.  The datalogs on the 17psi 0-100 wot looks really good compared to my Unleashed.  Fuel pressure looks much better than mine as well.
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